Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Default It LIVES!!!

Well, after several interruptions, I finally got everything wired up
tonight. Reading through the manual was worse than stereo instructions
though. I finally thought I was ready, so I turned on the house breaker,
and then the garage breaker. Unit powered up and I started setting the
paramaters I thought I needed. Then turned on the interrupt switch and
then the main switch to the compressor. No sparks flying...good...
Try the Jog button first. Nothing happens. Ok, well, I'll try turning
the Hz down from 60 to 6 and try it. Click-click-click-click-(hit the
stop button)click-click....

Hmm...maybe just too slow. Bump it up to 18 Hz. Click-click-click(almost
hit the stop, but it start turning)click-click-click(hit the stop button
anyway)click-click....

Ok, verified that the flywheel and motor are turning in the correct
direction. Turn it back up to 60 Hz. Ok, time to check the cutout for
the pressure switch circuit this time too. Press Run and
click-click-click-turn-thump-thump-thump... It is turning, and up to speed
now, but hey the cutout is off, it shouldn't be running...hit stop. It
slows down and ends with click-click-click...

Look through the book. Aha! The coast command and the line lockout
command (which is different than setting the line lockout paramaters) are
in the same paramater. Set now! Time to test. Push Run, nothing. Aha!
It works right. Flip the switch and press Run, click-click-click-turn!
Not too happy about the click-click noises, but it is running.

Let it get up to about 100psi, pretty darn quick too. Sounds like a
muscle car idling with a bad muffler, but not revving the engine. Noisy,
but it probably sounds like an idling muscle car without a bad muffler
from outside. Power hammer should make just as much noise when I'm done,
and hearing protection will be used.

I'm a little concerned that the oil pressure is reading in the high
section almost immediately, and climbs somewhat over the course of the
test. That might be due to the oil that is in it. Which likely means I
can't really warm it up safely before changing it. Oh well. It was a bit
cold too when I started up. I did have the propane heater running while I
was working so it wasn't too cold when I started it. No leaks could be
heard when it was shut down. Whoo-hoo! Noticed that the drain valve has
a bent handle stem. I guess I need to replace that. I think I'll just
run some black iron pipe there and put the valve at waist level near the
door to make it easy to drain. Currently venting down as I write this up.

I'll grab the video tomorrow after work and try and post a link to it here
before too awfully late.

Thanks for everybody who helped me get this far.

Todd
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Default It LIVES!!!

Todd Rich wrote:
(snip)
Thanks for everybody who helped me get this far.


Todd


Oh, and the lights didn't dim at all on startup.
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Default It LIVES!!!

On 2007-12-20, Todd Rich wrote:
Todd Rich wrote:
(snip)
Thanks for everybody who helped me get this far.


Todd


Oh, and the lights didn't dim at all on startup.


I am very happy for you!

i
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Default It LIVES!!!

Ignoramus31412 wrote:
On 2007-12-20, Todd Rich wrote:
Todd Rich wrote:
(snip)
Thanks for everybody who helped me get this far.


Todd


Oh, and the lights didn't dim at all on startup.


I am very happy for you!


i


Ok, here is the video. Same video, different quality:
Large 100M file:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/1pu0w6

Small 3M file:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/kmj2sv

The compressor works!

(Some anti-virus programs don't like sendspace, but it seems to be legit,
just 'add-y')

Btw, the comment about shutting off at 150psi is because that is the
default setting for the pressure switch, but it can and probably was
adjusted higher, I'm just a little nervous with all that energy stored in
the tank.

Todd
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Default It LIVES!!!

On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 04:18:39 +0000 (UTC), Todd Rich
wrote:


Ok, here is the video. Same video, different quality:
Large 100M file:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/1pu0w6

Small 3M file:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/kmj2sv

The compressor works!

(Some anti-virus programs don't like sendspace, but it seems to be legit,
just 'add-y')

Btw, the comment about shutting off at 150psi is because that is the
default setting for the pressure switch, but it can and probably was
adjusted higher, I'm just a little nervous with all that energy stored in
the tank.

Todd


File DL is very slow, looking like 30 min for the big file.

Anyone every hear of a compressor exploding? I've seen tanks rust
through and leak, but never anything more eventful than that.

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.


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Default It LIVES!!!

Randy wrote:
(snip)
Btw, the comment about shutting off at 150psi is because that is the
default setting for the pressure switch, but it can and probably was
adjusted higher, I'm just a little nervous with all that energy stored in
the tank.

Todd


File DL is very slow, looking like 30 min for the big file.


Sorry about that. I had a friend with a fast connection test it and it
only took him about 5 minutes. I guess their servers are somewhat
variable. Or as more people download it, they throttle the bandwidth.

Anyone every hear of a compressor exploding? I've seen tanks rust
through and leak, but never anything more eventful than that.


Thank You,
Randy


I wouldn't be quite so nervous, but I did tip it over while moving it. It
looks like it was the air filter and pulley shroud that took the brunt of
the impact, but I'm still a little nervous about it.

Todd
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Default It LIVES!!!


"Todd Rich" wrote in message
...
Randy wrote:
(snip)
Btw, the comment about shutting off at 150psi is because that is the
default setting for the pressure switch, but it can and probably was
adjusted higher, I'm just a little nervous with all that energy stored

in
the tank.

Todd


File DL is very slow, looking like 30 min for the big file.


Sorry about that. I had a friend with a fast connection test it and it
only took him about 5 minutes. I guess their servers are somewhat
variable. Or as more people download it, they throttle the bandwidth.

Anyone every hear of a compressor exploding? I've seen tanks rust
through and leak, but never anything more eventful than that.


Thank You,
Randy


I wouldn't be quite so nervous, but I did tip it over while moving it. It
looks like it was the air filter and pulley shroud that took the brunt of
the impact, but I'm still a little nervous about it.

Todd


Todd, Some thing is wrong with it! It should NOT sound like that when it
starts up. If you jog it for say 20 sec dose that nasty sound stop like it
does after a bit at full speed?

William...


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Default It LIVES!!!

William wrote:
(snip)
Todd, Some thing is wrong with it! It should NOT sound like that when it
starts up. If you jog it for say 20 sec dose that nasty sound stop like it
does after a bit at full speed?


William...


Jog doesn't move it. And it sounds like that starting up even after it has
been run for a bit. I belive it is due to the VFD trying to run it with
not enough power/speed for the motor as part of it's ramp up, as it had
the same sound before I switched it from ramp down to coast when I was
shutting it off. I was going to check the paramaters it has for the
ramp-up to see if I can get it to start with a higher voltage/frequency to
bypass that range.

I don't know if you can tell, but it makes that sound before the motor
actually starts moving, and for the first second or so of moving, so it
isn't the compressor itself. It is the motor/vfd.

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Todd,
open the electrical box on the compressor when you start it, and
watch what is going on in there. That sound seems to me to be the
contactor in there chattering. With the VFD running the motor you
should not even need that contactor connected.





On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 10:29:43 -0600, "William"
wrote:


"Todd Rich" wrote in message
...
Randy wrote:
(snip)
Btw, the comment about shutting off at 150psi is because that is the
default setting for the pressure switch, but it can and probably was
adjusted higher, I'm just a little nervous with all that energy stored

in
the tank.

Todd


File DL is very slow, looking like 30 min for the big file.


Sorry about that. I had a friend with a fast connection test it and it
only took him about 5 minutes. I guess their servers are somewhat
variable. Or as more people download it, they throttle the bandwidth.

Anyone every hear of a compressor exploding? I've seen tanks rust
through and leak, but never anything more eventful than that.


Thank You,
Randy


I wouldn't be quite so nervous, but I did tip it over while moving it. It
looks like it was the air filter and pulley shroud that took the brunt of
the impact, but I'm still a little nervous about it.

Todd


Todd, Some thing is wrong with it! It should NOT sound like that when it
starts up. If you jog it for say 20 sec dose that nasty sound stop like it
does after a bit at full speed?

William...

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.
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Default It LIVES!!!

Randy wrote:
Todd,
open the electrical box on the compressor when you start it, and
watch what is going on in there. That sound seems to me to be the
contactor in there chattering. With the VFD running the motor you
should not even need that contactor connected.


Where exactly should I be looking?

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u...comp/comp1.jpg
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u...comp/comp2.jpg

Should I remove the whole lower Allen-Bradley unit?

I'm afraid I'm really not that up on what is in that box.

Btw, thanks!


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Default It LIVES!!!

Todd Rich wrote:
Ignoramus31412 wrote:

On 2007-12-20, Todd Rich wrote:

Todd Rich wrote:
(snip)

Thanks for everybody who helped me get this far.

Todd

Oh, and the lights didn't dim at all on startup.



I am very happy for you!



i



Ok, here is the video. Same video, different quality:
Large 100M file:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/1pu0w6

Small 3M file:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/kmj2sv

The compressor works!

(Some anti-virus programs don't like sendspace, but it seems to be legit,
just 'add-y')

Btw, the comment about shutting off at 150psi is because that is the
default setting for the pressure switch, but it can and probably was
adjusted higher, I'm just a little nervous with all that energy stored in
the tank.

I sure heard the clanks when it started. Before I had the
electronic controls on my little Quincy it also made a click
when starting. There is something like a little lathe dog that
drives the vane-type oil pump. I'm guessing that finger is
supposed to snap off if the pump ever bound up to avoid total
destruction of the pump. But, if the compressor is allowed to
stop while still loaded, the cylinder pressure will bring it to
a bouncing stop, and the pin may no longer be near the slot in
the pump, allowing the compressor to start spinning before the
pin catches up to the pump. I was kind of concerned about that
impact eventually breaking the pin. Anyway, my controller now
unloads the pump and allows it to idle for 30 seconds to see if
more air is needed. If not, then the compressor is stopped
while unloaded, and the unloader air is not turned off until the
compressor is at a complete stop. I don't get the click
anymore. Those clanks may also be the intake valves bouncing as
the compressor is spinning up (although it sounded prettu loud).

Jon
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Randy wrote:
Anyone every hear of a compressor exploding? I've seen tanks rust
through and leak, but never anything more eventful than that.

I've seen the end result. Some ME's at our University do
accident investigations on the side, and I saw a blown
compressor in their truck once. The tank was unrolled and
almost perfectly flat. This was a little roll-around 2 Hp or so
unit. Generally, if they were investigating, there were fatalities.

Jon
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Todd Rich wrote:
Randy wrote:

Todd,
open the electrical box on the compressor when you start it, and
watch what is going on in there. That sound seems to me to be the
contactor in there chattering. With the VFD running the motor you
should not even need that contactor connected.



Where exactly should I be looking?

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u...comp/comp1.jpg
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u...comp/comp2.jpg

Should I remove the whole lower Allen-Bradley unit?

I'm afraid I'm really not that up on what is in that box.

Ahhh, lucky for you that is a tough VFD or you would have
already smoked it. Just bypass ALL the stuff in there, wire the
VFD straight to the 3 motor wires. The pressure switch should
be wired to the VFD's control input.

Jon
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Default It LIVES!!!


"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...
Todd Rich wrote:
Randy wrote:

Todd,
open the electrical box on the compressor when you start it, and
watch what is going on in there. That sound seems to me to be the
contactor in there chattering. With the VFD running the motor you
should not even need that contactor connected.



Where exactly should I be looking?

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u...comp/comp1.jpg
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u...comp/comp2.jpg

Should I remove the whole lower Allen-Bradley unit?


yes and the top too, you need none of it just remove the whole thing from
the compressor...

I'm afraid I'm really not that up on what is in that box.

Ahhh, lucky for you that is a tough VFD or you would have
already smoked it. Just bypass ALL the stuff in there, wire the
VFD straight to the 3 motor wires. The pressure switch should
be wired to the VFD's control input.

Jon


Bingo I assumed that you had trashed all that VERY old AB stuff in that
box.

Remove it and let us know if it stops that nasty noise.

William....


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Default It LIVES!!!

Jon Elson wrote:
(snip)
Ahhh, lucky for you that is a tough VFD or you would have
already smoked it.


So overbuying saved my butt. It never even came up with an error code.

Just bypass ALL the stuff in there, wire the
VFD straight to the 3 motor wires. The pressure switch should
be wired to the VFD's control input.


Well, I took out the lower portion, though it looks like the upper switch
is actually riveted into the box. Spliced in some wire to jump the gap
between the two sets of wires. (proper gage, 6-3 stranded copper).
Started it up and it sounds right now. No hesitation and smooth ramp-up.

The pressure switch was already wired into the VFD's control input. I
still haven't found what the pressure switch it set for, but it is at
least 160psi. I know that the control input is wired right because I have
an extra switch wired into that loop and when I shut it off it turns off
the motor. I'll turn it down a ways and see if I can't tweak it to where
I want it.

It was obvious that I hadn't warmed up the shop though, because the
pressure started to head to the redline. I turned it off, and I'll warm
up the shop ahead of the next time, so it can thin out before the pressure
gets too high. Then when it is nice and warmed up, I'll change the oil.

Jon


Todd


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William wrote:

"Jon Elson" wrote in message

(snip)
yes and the top too, you need none of it just remove the whole thing from
the compressor...


Done.

I'm afraid I'm really not that up on what is in that box.

Ahhh, lucky for you that is a tough VFD or you would have
already smoked it. Just bypass ALL the stuff in there, wire the
VFD straight to the 3 motor wires. The pressure switch should
be wired to the VFD's control input.

Jon


Bingo I assumed that you had trashed all that VERY old AB stuff in that
box.


Nope, and a couple of people even said just wire it in. It is gone now
(well the upper portion is there, but bypassed). I'll hold onto it in
case I sell it later.

Remove it and let us know if it stops that nasty noise.


Sounds much nicer now. I'll take some video tomorrow/Monday when I start
it up to warm up the oil for an oil change.

William....


Todd
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Sounds like you got it now.




On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 02:08:52 +0000 (UTC), Todd Rich
wrote:

William wrote:

"Jon Elson" wrote in message

(snip)
yes and the top too, you need none of it just remove the whole thing from
the compressor...


Done.

I'm afraid I'm really not that up on what is in that box.
Ahhh, lucky for you that is a tough VFD or you would have
already smoked it. Just bypass ALL the stuff in there, wire the
VFD straight to the 3 motor wires. The pressure switch should
be wired to the VFD's control input.

Jon


Bingo I assumed that you had trashed all that VERY old AB stuff in that
box.


Nope, and a couple of people even said just wire it in. It is gone now
(well the upper portion is there, but bypassed). I'll hold onto it in
case I sell it later.

Remove it and let us know if it stops that nasty noise.


Sounds much nicer now. I'll take some video tomorrow/Monday when I start
it up to warm up the oil for an oil change.

William....


Todd

Thank You,
Randy

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