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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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Harbor Freight winch vs. McMaster winch, and wire rope
As I mentioned earlier, I installed a Harbor Freight "truck crane" on
my truck. When trying to lift a 300 lbs rotary table into my truck, using the crane, the winch jammed. It jammed because somehow the drum went off its axis by about 1-2 mm. Its other problem is that the hub ot the Harbor Freight winch was very thin (less than 1 inch, for a 1/4 inch cable). As a result, the cable would not wind nicely around the drum and it was a mess causing some kinks. After this jamming, I briefly considered fixing the winch, but decided against it. Instead, I bought a McMaster winch 3644T53. I also bought a cover for it (shown on same page 1388). The price was $28 + $7. I did not fit existing holes on HF crane exactly, so I had to mill one hole bigger, about 2mm in one direction. The result is much nicer -- it looks way better with a cover, and the hub is 2 inches thick, so the wire rope wraps very nicely around the hub without kinking. That said, I am now considering replacing HF rope also, and would like to know if "all wire rope is the same", or perhaps some wire rope is more flexible than other kinds of wire rope. I have been reading McMaster's description of various wire rope construction methods (6x37 etc) and it seems that this Harbor Freight wire rope is not greatest. (which I sort of expected). For those who would offer a snide remark such as "why did you buy this crane if so many components are crap", I would answer that the crane body does seem to be very sturdy, and a comparable brand name crane would cost way above $1,000. I have never seen them sold, used. Anyone has any experience? Would I gain anything from spending to buy more expensive wire rope? i |
#2
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Harbor Freight winch vs. McMaster winch, and wire rope
Ignoramus9168 wrote:
As I mentioned earlier, I installed a Harbor Freight "truck crane" on my truck. When trying to lift a 300 lbs rotary table into my truck, using the crane, the winch jammed. It jammed because somehow the drum went off its axis by about 1-2 mm. Its other problem is that the hub ot the Harbor Freight winch was very thin (less than 1 inch, for a 1/4 inch cable). As a result, the cable would not wind nicely around the drum and it was a mess causing some kinks. After this jamming, I briefly considered fixing the winch, but decided against it. Instead, I bought a McMaster winch 3644T53. I also bought a cover for it (shown on same page 1388). The price was $28 + $7. I did not fit existing holes on HF crane exactly, so I had to mill one hole bigger, about 2mm in one direction. The result is much nicer -- it looks way better with a cover, and the hub is 2 inches thick, so the wire rope wraps very nicely around the hub without kinking. That said, I am now considering replacing HF rope also, and would like to know if "all wire rope is the same", or perhaps some wire rope is more flexible than other kinds of wire rope. I have been reading McMaster's description of various wire rope construction methods (6x37 etc) and it seems that this Harbor Freight wire rope is not greatest. (which I sort of expected). For those who would offer a snide remark such as "why did you buy this crane if so many components are crap", I would answer that the crane body does seem to be very sturdy, and a comparable brand name crane would cost way above $1,000. I have never seen them sold, used. Anyone has any experience? Would I gain anything from spending to buy more expensive wire rope? i The finer the individual wire strands the more flexible the cable. However the downside is that the finer wires break easier as well. There is a 6/26 construction that tries to mitigate this by using fine wire inside and covering it with a heavier outer wire wrap. Gives the stuff some armor BUT it also makes it stiffer. I use a 7/19 stainless 5/16" as the winch cable on the Blazer and we use the same stuff on the winch on the rescue we have in the station. Works great and is tough stuff. Got it from. http://www.farmtek.com/farm/supplies/home -- Steve W. Near Cooperstown, New York ---- Posted via Pronews.com - Premium Corporate Usenet News Provider ---- http://www.pronews.com offers corporate packages that have access to 100,000+ newsgroups |
#3
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Harbor Freight winch vs. McMaster winch, and wire rope
"Ignoramus9168" wrote in message ... As I mentioned earlier, I installed a Harbor Freight "truck crane" on my truck. When trying to lift a 300 lbs rotary table into my truck, using the crane, the winch jammed. It jammed because somehow the drum went off its axis by about 1-2 mm. Its other problem is that the hub ot the Harbor Freight winch was very thin (less than 1 inch, for a 1/4 inch cable). As a result, the cable would not wind nicely around the drum and it was a mess causing some kinks. After this jamming, I briefly considered fixing the winch, but decided against it. Instead, I bought a McMaster winch 3644T53. I also bought a cover for it (shown on same page 1388). The price was $28 + $7. I did not fit existing holes on HF crane exactly, so I had to mill one hole bigger, about 2mm in one direction. The result is much nicer -- it looks way better with a cover, and the hub is 2 inches thick, so the wire rope wraps very nicely around the hub without kinking. That said, I am now considering replacing HF rope also, and would like to know if "all wire rope is the same", or perhaps some wire rope is more flexible than other kinds of wire rope. I have been reading McMaster's description of various wire rope construction methods (6x37 etc) and it seems that this Harbor Freight wire rope is not greatest. (which I sort of expected). For those who would offer a snide remark such as "why did you buy this crane if so many components are crap", I would answer that the crane body does seem to be very sturdy, and a comparable brand name crane would cost way above $1,000. I have never seen them sold, used. Anyone has any experience? Would I gain anything from spending to buy more expensive wire rope? i Yes. You would get better rope made of better steel. As a former crane operator, I can tell you that using it wrong will mess up even a good rope on its first use. Watch how it feeds into the spool, and try to guide it like a level wind fishing line. Keep your hand at least a foot away from the spool. I saw a guy lose four fingers like that once on a big air tugger, but same principle. Some of HF stuff is good for what it's good for. I bought an electric winch for my cabin that has about a 500# capacity on a straight line. I don't like the looks of the pulley enough to trust it by doubling the cable. So far, so good, but we just use it to make lifts of less than 100#. Still, every once in a while I pay out all the line, and then reload the reel using the level wind technique. You did good by spending some extra bucks. A hammer is a hammer, but there's a lot of difference in hoists. And if you have a problem with stuff after it's off the deck, you got a problem. Steve |
#4
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Harbor Freight winch vs. McMaster winch, and wire rope
On Nov 30, 3:05 pm, Ignoramus9168
wrote: As I mentioned earlier, I installed a Harbor Freight "truck crane" on my truck. When trying to lift a 300 lbs rotary table into my truck, using the crane, the winch jammed. It jammed because somehow the drum went off its axis by about 1-2 mm. Gosh - thats a big rotary table - what size is it, whats it originally from..... Andrew VK3BFA. |
#5
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Harbor Freight winch vs. McMaster winch, and wire rope
On Nov 29, 11:05 pm, Ignoramus9168
wrote: As I mentioned earlier, I installed a Harbor Freight "truck crane" on my truck. When trying to lift a 300 lbs rotary table into my truck, using the crane, the winch jammed. It jammed because somehow the drum went off its axis by about 1-2 mm.... i I've had no problems with an even cheaper Homier boat trailer winch but consider replacing the wire rope with kernmantle mountaineering rope which won't scratch your truck or cut your hand when a strand breaks. I'd use a piece long enough to wrap around and lift a washing machine. Tie a bowline or figure-eight loop in the end and clip in a carabiner to replace the hook. 8mm Static Line doesn't stretch much and is rated for 10X your load limit. http://www.pelicanrope.com/polyesterropes.html West Marine has excellent rope and fittings, too. The per-foot price can be high but climbing and yachting stores may have cutoffs and reel ends cheaper. I've found short pieces of really nice rope with a minor slub in it at surplus stores. Jim Wilkins |
#6
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Harbor Freight winch vs. McMaster winch, and wire rope
Just a thought, I use "blue" rope on my ATV winch. It's supposed to be
stronger than the cable, and will not snap back if broken. I can also go around a small radius drum without effort. I used to use cable when using a snow plow on my ATV, but the cable could not handle the almost right angle bend from the fairlead to the plow and broke. I've used the rope for two years without breaking. The only negative is the price (expensive). Look at http://www.newircusers.com/store/rk2...nch _Line.jsp for one source. Dave Ignoramus9168 wrote: As I mentioned earlier, I installed a Harbor Freight "truck crane" on my truck. When trying to lift a 300 lbs rotary table into my truck, using the crane, the winch jammed. It jammed because somehow the drum went off its axis by about 1-2 mm. Its other problem is that the hub ot the Harbor Freight winch was very thin (less than 1 inch, for a 1/4 inch cable). As a result, the cable would not wind nicely around the drum and it was a mess causing some kinks. After this jamming, I briefly considered fixing the winch, but decided against it. Instead, I bought a McMaster winch 3644T53. I also bought a cover for it (shown on same page 1388). The price was $28 + $7. I did not fit existing holes on HF crane exactly, so I had to mill one hole bigger, about 2mm in one direction. The result is much nicer -- it looks way better with a cover, and the hub is 2 inches thick, so the wire rope wraps very nicely around the hub without kinking. That said, I am now considering replacing HF rope also, and would like to know if "all wire rope is the same", or perhaps some wire rope is more flexible than other kinds of wire rope. I have been reading McMaster's description of various wire rope construction methods (6x37 etc) and it seems that this Harbor Freight wire rope is not greatest. (which I sort of expected). For those who would offer a snide remark such as "why did you buy this crane if so many components are crap", I would answer that the crane body does seem to be very sturdy, and a comparable brand name crane would cost way above $1,000. I have never seen them sold, used. Anyone has any experience? Would I gain anything from spending to buy more expensive wire rope? i |
#7
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Harbor Freight winch vs. McMaster winch, and wire rope
"Ignoramus9168" wrote in message ... As I mentioned earlier, I installed a Harbor Freight "truck crane" on my truck. When trying to lift a 300 lbs rotary table into my truck, using the crane, the winch jammed. It jammed because somehow the drum went off its axis by about 1-2 mm. Its other problem is that the hub ot the Harbor Freight winch was very thin (less than 1 inch, for a 1/4 inch cable). As a result, the cable would not wind nicely around the drum and it was a mess causing some kinks. After this jamming, I briefly considered fixing the winch, but decided against it. Instead, I bought a McMaster winch 3644T53. I also bought a cover for it (shown on same page 1388). The price was $28 + $7. If the McMaster winch turns out to be less than perfect, take a look at Dutton-Lainson brake winches. Holds a suspended load even if you let go of the handle. A little more money, but worth it. |
#8
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Harbor Freight winch vs. McMaster winch, and wire rope
On 2007-11-30, BillM wrote:
If the McMaster winch turns out to be less than perfect, take a look at Dutton-Lainson brake winches. Holds a suspended load even if you let go of the handle. A little more money, but worth it. Bill, I will try it this weekend, but I have hopes that it will work as advertised (unlike the HF winch). It is made in USA, also. I looked at the Dutton winches, they look very nice and if I knew, I might have bought one, but as it stands, I think that I have a combo that can do its job. I will try the crane in a day or two. i |
#9
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Harbor Freight winch vs. McMaster winch, and wire rope
On 2007-11-30, Jim Wilkins wrote:
I've had no problems with an even cheaper Homier boat trailer winch but consider replacing the wire rope with kernmantle mountaineering rope which won't scratch your truck or cut your hand when a strand breaks. I'd use a piece long enough to wrap around and lift a washing machine. Tie a bowline or figure-eight loop in the end and clip in a carabiner to replace the hook. Jim, I did not realize how strong fiber line could be. Very interesting. I am seriously looking at them. i |
#10
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Harbor Freight winch vs. McMaster winch, and wire rope
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:25:59 -0600, Ignoramus22774
wrote: On 2007-11-30, Jim Wilkins wrote: I've had no problems with an even cheaper Homier boat trailer winch but consider replacing the wire rope with kernmantle mountaineering rope which won't scratch your truck or cut your hand when a strand breaks. I'd use a piece long enough to wrap around and lift a washing machine. Tie a bowline or figure-eight loop in the end and clip in a carabiner to replace the hook. Jim, I did not realize how strong fiber line could be. Very interesting. I am seriously looking at them. i Spectra and kevlar are both considerably stronger than steel of same diameter, and a lot more flexible. The downsides are that they crush more on the spool, don't stack or lay well and they do not resist abrasion well at all. |
#11
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Harbor Freight winch vs. McMaster winch, and wire rope
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 14:37:48 GMT, "BillM"
wrote: "Ignoramus9168" wrote in message m... As I mentioned earlier, I installed a Harbor Freight "truck crane" on my truck. When trying to lift a 300 lbs rotary table into my truck, using the crane, the winch jammed. It jammed because somehow the drum went off its axis by about 1-2 mm. Its other problem is that the hub ot the Harbor Freight winch was very thin (less than 1 inch, for a 1/4 inch cable). As a result, the cable would not wind nicely around the drum and it was a mess causing some kinks. After this jamming, I briefly considered fixing the winch, but decided against it. Instead, I bought a McMaster winch 3644T53. I also bought a cover for it (shown on same page 1388). The price was $28 + $7. If the McMaster winch turns out to be less than perfect, take a look at Dutton-Lainson brake winches. Holds a suspended load even if you let go of the handle. A little more money, but worth it. Can be considerably cheaper in the long run. Think 3 days in hospital for orthopedic hand reconstruction after being hit by a runaway boat winch handle. (Been there, done that!) |
#12
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Harbor Freight winch vs. McMaster winch, and wire rope
On 2007-11-30, Don Foreman wrote:
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:25:59 -0600, Ignoramus22774 wrote: On 2007-11-30, Jim Wilkins wrote: I've had no problems with an even cheaper Homier boat trailer winch but consider replacing the wire rope with kernmantle mountaineering rope which won't scratch your truck or cut your hand when a strand breaks. I'd use a piece long enough to wrap around and lift a washing machine. Tie a bowline or figure-eight loop in the end and clip in a carabiner to replace the hook. Jim, I did not realize how strong fiber line could be. Very interesting. I am seriously looking at them. i Spectra and kevlar are both considerably stronger than steel of same diameter, and a lot more flexible. The downsides are that they crush more on the spool, don't stack or lay well and they do not resist abrasion well at all. I see. Well, I think that the most prudent course of action, right now, would be to do nothing and keep the existing Harbor Freight wire rope. Thanks Don. i |
#13
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Harbor Freight winch vs. McMaster winch, and wire rope
On Nov 30, 12:39 pm, Don Foreman
wrote: .... Spectra and kevlar are both considerably stronger than steel of same diameter, and a lot more flexible. The downsides are that they crush more on the spool, don't stack or lay well and they do not resist abrasion well at all. That's why I suggested rock-climbing rope, specifically Static Line which doesn't stretch or twist under load like the usual hardware- store Nylon rope. |
#14
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Harbor Freight winch vs. McMaster winch, and wire rope
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:08:11 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus22774 quickly quoth: On 2007-11-30, BillM wrote: If the McMaster winch turns out to be less than perfect, take a look at Dutton-Lainson brake winches. Holds a suspended load even if you let go of the handle. A little more money, but worth it. Bill, I will try it this weekend, but I have hopes that it will work as advertised (unlike the HF winch). It is made in USA, also. I looked at the Dutton winches, they look very nice and if I knew, I might have bought one, but as it stands, I think that I have a combo that can do its job. I looked at your McMaster link and saw the winches which used strapping. I had never seen that before and think that is a GREAT idea. I've been bitten by stray needles from wire rope before. GIFs at 11, I suppose? -- Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself. -- William Faulkner |
#15
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Harbor Freight winch vs. McMaster winch, and wire rope
On 2007-11-30, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:08:11 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm, Ignoramus22774 quickly quoth: On 2007-11-30, BillM wrote: If the McMaster winch turns out to be less than perfect, take a look at Dutton-Lainson brake winches. Holds a suspended load even if you let go of the handle. A little more money, but worth it. Bill, I will try it this weekend, but I have hopes that it will work as advertised (unlike the HF winch). It is made in USA, also. I looked at the Dutton winches, they look very nice and if I knew, I might have bought one, but as it stands, I think that I have a combo that can do its job. I looked at your McMaster link and saw the winches which used strapping. I had never seen that before and think that is a GREAT idea. I've been bitten by stray needles from wire rope before. I also think that it is a great idea, but I do not think that it will work with this "crane". GIFs at 11, I suppose? I can take some pix this weekend. This winch looks nice in its black cover. i |
#16
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Harbor Freight winch vs. McMaster winch, and wire rope
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 15:33:41 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus22774 quickly quoth: On 2007-11-30, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote: On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:08:11 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm, Ignoramus22774 quickly quoth: On 2007-11-30, BillM wrote: If the McMaster winch turns out to be less than perfect, take a look at Dutton-Lainson brake winches. Holds a suspended load even if you let go of the handle. A little more money, but worth it. Bill, I will try it this weekend, but I have hopes that it will work as advertised (unlike the HF winch). It is made in USA, also. I looked at the Dutton winches, they look very nice and if I knew, I might have bought one, but as it stands, I think that I have a combo that can do its job. I looked at your McMaster link and saw the winches which used strapping. I had never seen that before and think that is a GREAT idea. I've been bitten by stray needles from wire rope before. I also think that it is a great idea, but I do not think that it will work with this "crane". You'd have to fab (and weld-on) a fairlead roller/guide to the crane boom nose, of course, but it'd work fine. GIFs at 11, I suppose? I can take some pix this weekend. This winch looks nice in its black cover. Bueno, bwana. -- Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself. -- William Faulkner |
#17
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Harbor Freight winch vs. McMaster winch, and wire rope
"Ignoramus9168" wrote in
message om... As I mentioned earlier, I installed a Harbor Freight "truck crane" on my truck. When trying to lift a 300 lbs rotary table into my truck, using the crane, the winch jammed. Did you happen to notice how much deflection you had on the mast where it meets the pickup side rail? Steve |
#18
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Harbor Freight winch vs. McMaster winch, and wire rope
On 2007-12-01, SteveB wrote:
"Ignoramus9168" wrote in message news:54udnThxHOqfEdLanZ2dnUVZ_j2dnZ2d@giganews. com... As I mentioned earlier, I installed a Harbor Freight "truck crane" on my truck. When trying to lift a 300 lbs rotary table into my truck, using the crane, the winch jammed. Did you happen to notice how much deflection you had on the mast where it meets the pickup side rail? Steve, unfortunately, I did not, I was preoccupied by the winch jam. I will check tomorrow when I will unload said table. i |
#19
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Harbor Freight winch vs. McMaster winch, and wire rope
"Ignoramus22774" wrote in message ... On 2007-12-01, SteveB wrote: "Ignoramus9168" wrote in message news:54udnThxHOqfEdLanZ2dnUVZ_j2dnZ2d@giganews .com... As I mentioned earlier, I installed a Harbor Freight "truck crane" on my truck. When trying to lift a 300 lbs rotary table into my truck, using the crane, the winch jammed. Did you happen to notice how much deflection you had on the mast where it meets the pickup side rail? Steve, unfortunately, I did not, I was preoccupied by the winch jam. I will check tomorrow when I will unload said table. i lol. Yeah, when stuff starts flying, sometimes you miss some things. I laugh because I've been there, done it. I would suggest testing it with a comparable load, but only lifting it about two or three inches off whatever it's sitting on. The ground, the bed, the tailgate, whatever. That way, you'll only be looking at one aspect and making those observances. Although it would be noteworthy to see how it does during a full travel of its parameter of rotation. Lift it from as many different positions of the boom as you can. Know how it acts so if there's a point where it flexes a little too much, you won't be surprised when making that lift in a real time scenario. Keep your toes clear! Steve |
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