Figured you guys would know...

I have found a used 220 v 3-phase oven that I would like to use in my
shop. The problem is that I only have 220v single phase. Without
going to a phase converter is there a way I can run the oven off of
single-phase by re-wiring the heating elements? IOW...how would I
reconnect to single phase to not overload the elements but also give
me the heat I need?


(Oh, even though I'm fairly electrical-challenged I did some homework
and learned that there are two basic ways 3-phase elements are wired,
star and delta. I just don't have enough knowledge of AC circuits to
figure out how to swap the elements or if it's even feasible.)

I rewired an infrared 220 3 phase heater. it had three elements. one between
L1-L2, one between L2-L3, and one between L1-L3, Yours is likely the same.

I ran three single phase 220 circuits, one to each element, worked fine.

Karl

On Aug 18, 2:36 pm, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:
I rewired an infrared 220 3 phase heater. it had three elements. one between
L1-L2, one between L2-L3, and one between L1-L3, Yours is likely the same.

I ran three single phase 220 circuits, one to each element, worked fine.

Karl

Good info. I did some more homework and it looks like I could do this
but my amperage would go up 1.73X (sqrt 3) as much.

How about this idea- after I rewire to single phase can I run three
breakers, one for each element, and then turn each on one at a time so
that I don't spike my power? I have 200 amp service to my shop and
each breaker would be 50 amps. The unit as 3-phase is 30KW at 220V
for a 3-phase amperage of about 79 amps. With single phase I would be
looking at about 137 amps, hence the three 50 amp breakers. How
practical is this in a home shop?

The other question... each element sees the same voltage but what
about the same power and will it kill my elements?

It all depends on how they are wired. It may or may not be easy to
rewire. Open the case and look. Even if they are delt wound (forming a
triangle), you may get 2/3 of power from them.

i

I'll defer to the electrical gurus that will chime in...

start with the basics. measure the resistance of a single element. Divide
into 220 to get amps. V=I*R V/R=I. That's a big heater, you may want to run
only two elements.

Karl

wrote:
Figured you guys would know...

I have found a used 220 v 3-phase oven that I would like to use in my
shop. The problem is that I only have 220v single phase. Without
going to a phase converter is there a way I can run the oven off of
single-phase by re-wiring the heating elements? IOW...how would I
reconnect to single phase to not overload the elements but also give
me the heat I need?


(Oh, even though I'm fairly electrical-challenged I did some homework
and learned that there are two basic ways 3-phase elements are wired,
star and delta. I just don't have enough knowledge of AC circuits to
figure out how to swap the elements or if it's even feasible.)



The first thing to do is determine if the elements are wired in Delta or
Wye (Star). Either way it will not be too hard to convert. You also
need to find out what control is on the oven. It the elements are in a
Delta setup you will have to rewire the elements so each element is in
parallel with the other. If the elements are in a Wye configuration you
will need a neutral wire to attach to the centertap of the Wye and tie
two of the high legs together and feed 220 across the single high leg
and the other set of two legs that are tied together. You could put
separate circuit breakers on each leg. One thing is that the neutral
conductor has to carry the current of two elements as should be sized
accordingly. Do not put a breaker or disconnect switch in the neutral
wire circuit.

None of the above will work with proprotional control circuits,
semiductor switching power control.


John

On Aug 18, 1:30?pm, wrote:
Figured you guys would know...


I have found a used 220 v 3-phase oven that I would like to use in my
shop. The problem is that I only have 220v single phase.

First of all determine if the heater elements are 220v or 110 volts.
If they are 220 your unit is probably wired delta. If 110 volts then
WYE. They are marked somewhere. Also determine the KW rating of each
heater element.

Remove all the wiring.

If the elements are 220 then wire each individually to a 2 pole 220
volt breaker. No neutral needed.

If 110 volts then wire each individually to a single pole 110 volt
breaker. A neutral will be needed.

As another said watch out for the neutrals. If you end up wiring for
110 volts make sure you wire them to alternate hotlegs of the 220
single phase in your panel. Don't make the neutral wiring smaller than
any 110 volt wiring.

Also any wiring within the heater must be, HPN I believe it the word,
IOW high temperature rated. And the terminals on the heaters also heat
rated. (I am not up on the wire and terminal types.)

I am guessing here but I would imagine that this heater is too much
for the 220 single phase service you have to your shop. An upgrade
might be in order.

Bob AZ

On Aug 18, 5:52 pm, Bob AZ wrote:
On Aug 18, 1:30?pm, wrote:

Figured you guys would know...
I have found a used 220 v 3-phase oven that I would like to use in my
shop. The problem is that I only have 220v single phase.

First of all determine if the heater elements are 220v or 110 volts.
If they are 220 your unit is probably wired delta. If 110 volts then
WYE. They are marked somewhere. Also determine the KW rating of each
heater element.

Remove all the wiring.

If the elements are 220 then wire each individually to a 2 pole 220
volt breaker. No neutral needed.

If 110 volts then wire each individually to a single pole 110 volt
breaker. A neutral will be needed.

As another said watch out for the neutrals. If you end up wiring for
110 volts make sure you wire them to alternate hotlegs of the 220
single phase in your panel. Don't make the neutral wiring smaller than
any 110 volt wiring.

Also any wiring within the heater must be, HPN I believe it the word,
IOW high temperature rated. And the terminals on the heaters also heat
rated. (I am not up on the wire and terminal types.)

I am guessing here but I would imagine that this heater is too much
for the 220 single phase service you have to your shop. An upgrade
might be in order.

Bob AZ

Yes, I agree. It is important to determine if the elements are for
220V or 110V (3 phase makes it 08V live to live), it makes a big
difference. From a different angle, 137 A power draw may be a little
high for a typical home. You may need to make sure your main breaker
can take it.

Ken

Opportunities are never lost. The other fellow takes those you miss.

| Torrey Hills Technologies, LLC |
| www.threerollmill.com |
| www.torreyhillstech.com |

Torrey Hills wrote:
On Aug 18, 5:52 pm, Bob AZ wrote:

On Aug 18, 1:30?pm, wrote:


Figured you guys would know...
I have found a used 220 v 3-phase oven that I would like to use in my
shop. The problem is that I only have 220v single phase.

First of all determine if the heater elements are 220v or 110 volts.
If they are 220 your unit is probably wired delta. If 110 volts then
WYE. They are marked somewhere. Also determine the KW rating of each
heater element.

Remove all the wiring.

If the elements are 220 then wire each individually to a 2 pole 220
volt breaker. No neutral needed.

If 110 volts then wire each individually to a single pole 110 volt
breaker. A neutral will be needed.

As another said watch out for the neutrals. If you end up wiring for
110 volts make sure you wire them to alternate hotlegs of the 220
single phase in your panel. Don't make the neutral wiring smaller than
any 110 volt wiring.

Also any wiring within the heater must be, HPN I believe it the word,
IOW high temperature rated. And the terminals on the heaters also heat
rated. (I am not up on the wire and terminal types.)

I am guessing here but I would imagine that this heater is too much
for the 220 single phase service you have to your shop. An upgrade
might be in order.

Bob AZ


Yes, I agree. It is important to determine if the elements are for
220V or 110V (3 phase makes it 08V live to live), it makes a big
difference. From a different angle, 137 A power draw may be a little
high for a typical home. You may need to make sure your main breaker
can take it.

Ken

Opportunities are never lost. The other fellow takes those you miss.

| Torrey Hills Technologies, LLC |
| www.threerollmill.com |
| www.torreyhillstech.com |





YOur household electric stove and oven doing a Thanksgiving dinner
takes more than a small heat treat oven. Its not a car bottom heat
treat oven I hope. My 12 x 12 x 20 inch 2000 degree F oven is less
than 5000 watts. That is only roughly 25 amps at 220 volts.




John

On Aug 18, 6:02 pm, wrote:
On Aug 18, 2:36 pm, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:

I rewired an infrared 220 3 phase heater. it had three elements. one between
L1-L2, one between L2-L3, and one between L1-L3, Yours is likely the same.

I ran three single phase 220 circuits, one to each element, worked fine.

Karl

Good info. I did some more homework and it looks like I could do this
but my amperage would go up 1.73X (sqrt 3) as much.

How about this idea- after I rewire to single phase can I run three
breakers, one for each element, and then turn each on one at a time so
that I don't spike my power? I have 200 amp service to my shop and
each breaker would be 50 amps. The unit as 3-phase is 30KW at 220V
for a 3-phase amperage of about 79 amps. With single phase I would be
looking at about 137 amps, hence the three 50 amp breakers. How
practical is this in a home shop?

The other question... each element sees the same voltage but what
about the same power and will it kill my elements?

Careful here. Make sure it's not 'center tapped` , Wye connected
Thats 120V. per coil. If so 240V. will fry it. But it can be wired for
separate 120V. Lines.
If the coils are wired delta, phase to phase then,
If it's 3 Phase, and t's sized at 208V. Design is : 10 KW. , 40
A. / Coil
What you are supplying is 240V., so you'll get : 11.5 KW. , 46A. /
Coil.

wrote:

(Oh, even though I'm fairly electrical-challenged I did some homework
and learned that there are two basic ways 3-phase elements are wired,
star and delta. I just don't have enough knowledge of AC circuits to
figure out how to swap the elements or if it's even feasible.)

Star and delta is a start. Where I used to work we ran die heaters on 460v
so you ended up with some heaters in series and in then in delta.

You need to diagram your current wiring configuration. Depending on how
many variations to deal with differing voltage supplies at customers they
(manufacturer) may have used there could be something strange in there.

Considering the 137A I doubt any allowances to rewire for 120v was in the
design so I bet each element segment is 220v

My bet is that it is delta but it is only a hunch.

E=IR P=IE Resistance tends to increase with temperature in most materials.

BTW, what is the internal size of this thing? How hot does it get? What
kind of control?

Wes