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Carolina Bandsaw (HD10?) measurment needed



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 7th 04, 03:12 PM
Harry McDaniel
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Default Carolina Bandsaw (HD10?) measurment needed

I bought a Carolina Bandsaw (I think it is the HD10, but there is no
label) a month ago and I have been trying to get it set up properly (a
bigger job than I anticipated!) and I have come to the conclusion that
one of the support arms, which is clearly non-original on my saw, may
be the wrong size. The saw frame does not sit at a true 45 degree
angle to the table (looking from the end) and it appears that it would
complete the cut better if the high side of the frame were up a little
higher. I would like to confirm the measurment by checking another
saw of the same model, but I don't know anyone who has one for me to
measure. I called the parts suppler for these saws--American
Fabricators/Ramco--and they were not able to get the measurment for
me. If someone would be willing to check it for me, the part I am
referring to is the longer of the two support arms that the saw pivots
on. It is right between the motor and the hydraulic cylinder. On my
saw it is 12" long (about 10" between pivot center and adjustment
bolts center). I think it may be an inch too short. You can see a
picture at:
http://buncombe.main.nc.us/~harrymc/...na_bandsaw.jpg
I attached a piece of red tape to the part in question.

And while I am at it . . . Can anyone tell me how to determine which
model I have--HD10, HD12, HV10, HV12, etc.? It uses a 3/4" blade.

Thanks!
Harry
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  #2  
Old April 7th 04, 08:28 PM
John Kunkel
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Default Carolina Bandsaw (HD10?) measurment needed


"Harry McDaniel" wrote in message
om...
I bought a Carolina Bandsaw (I think it is the HD10, but there is no
label) a month ago and I have been trying to get it set up properly (a
bigger job than I anticipated!) and I have come to the conclusion that
one of the support arms, which is clearly non-original on my saw, may
be the wrong size. The saw frame does not sit at a true 45 degree
angle to the table (looking from the end) and it appears that it would
complete the cut better if the high side of the frame were up a little
higher. I would like to confirm the measurment by checking another
saw of the same model, but I don't know anyone who has one for me to
measure. I called the parts suppler for these saws--American
Fabricators/Ramco--and they were not able to get the measurment for
me. If someone would be willing to check it for me, the part I am
referring to is the longer of the two support arms that the saw pivots
on. It is right between the motor and the hydraulic cylinder. On my
saw it is 12" long (about 10" between pivot center and adjustment
bolts center). I think it may be an inch too short. You can see a
picture at:
http://buncombe.main.nc.us/~harrymc/...na_bandsaw.jpg
I attached a piece of red tape to the part in question.


I have an HD10 and the arm measures 10 5/16" from the pivot center to the
bolt center.


And while I am at it . . . Can anyone tell me how to determine which
model I have--HD10, HD12, HV10, HV12, etc.? It uses a 3/4" blade.


I have never seen other than my HD10 so I don't know the difference in the
models; mine uses a 3/4" blade, 115 1/2" long.




  #3  
Old April 9th 04, 12:34 AM
Wayne Cook
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Posts: n/a
Default Carolina Bandsaw (HD10?) measurment needed

On 7 Apr 2004 07:12:16 -0700, (Harry
McDaniel) wrote:

I bought a Carolina Bandsaw (I think it is the HD10, but there is no
label) a month ago and I have been trying to get it set up properly (a
bigger job than I anticipated!) and I have come to the conclusion that
one of the support arms, which is clearly non-original on my saw, may
be the wrong size. The saw frame does not sit at a true 45 degree
angle to the table (looking from the end) and it appears that it would
complete the cut better if the high side of the frame were up a little
higher. I would like to confirm the measurment by checking another
saw of the same model,


My saw agrees with the other poster at 10 5/16" center to center. I
measure about 43deg angle with the table on the square tube at the top
of the saw.

However your saw may be suffering from what mine was based on what I
see in the photo. My saw had the pivot bushings in the base wrong. It
would track pretty far off from 90deg to the table. The way to check
this is put a framing square on the table (use whatever surface you
plan on using for getting the stock flat on for a reference since
these saws don't have a perfectly flat table). Push it against the
blade and then hold it there. Then raise the saw and see if it either
binds or moves away from the blade. If it moved away that will be the
amount of angle on the cuts made with the saw. If it binds then reset
the square against the blade with it up (you'll only be able to go
about half way up doing this). Then lower the blade and see how much
it's off. If it was like mine you have close to 1/4-3/8" out in 10-12"
of travel.

The cure for this is to take the arm you're talking about off and
then cut the bushing loose from the base. Then notch the hole in the
direction you need to go and tack it in place. Check for square travel
and adjust as needed. Once set you weld the bushing back.



Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook
  #4  
Old April 13th 04, 08:35 PM
Harry McDaniel
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Posts: n/a
Default Carolina Bandsaw (HD10?) measurment needed

Thanks for the measurements and ideas Wayne and John. Since you both
said the arm measures 10 5/16" hole-to-hole, that must be the correct
size (unless my saw is not really a HD10 and the other models use a
different size arm). Mine is a tiny bit shorter--10" +/- 1/16", but
that difference does not explain the problems I am having with
alignment. The alignment issue that you corrected on your saw, Wayne,
does not seem to be a problem on mine. My blade follows a square
nicely as I raise and lower the saw head. Here are the symptoms that
led me to think that the arm was too short, perhaps someone else can
see another explanation:

1--With my saw adjusted to the best of my understanding, the blade
does not complete the cut (pass beyond the plane of the saw bed)
unless I set the saw head to pivot beyond the horizontal position
AND/OR I set the lower blade guide at an angle (by tilting it in it's
adjustment slots on the saw frame) to force the blade to make a
little deeper cut.

When I bought the saw, it was set so that the head was angled down at
the end of the cut (i.e. the main square tube of the frame was not
parallel with the floor; the motor end was higher than the other end).
This did not look right to me. All of the Carolina (and Ramco)
Bandsaws that I have seen in pictures seem to end the cut with the
square tube parallel to the floor, so I made adjustments in the blade
guides until it could almost complete the cut "properly". Am I off
track with this idea? Surely the lower blade guide should not be set
at an angle; if it was supposed to be extended that far then I think
the slots would have simply been cut further down.

By extending the support arm (mentioned in my original question) and
raising the high side of the saw, I would lower the blade slightly.

2--When I raised the saw head to a vertical position, the gear case
bumped the nut that was welded to the base to hold the tension spring,
preventing the saw from pivoting to a full upright position. Surely
that is not intended in the design of the saw. A longer support arm
would put the gear case further from that nut. I have cut off that
nut and I am working on a new spring attachment which will provide
more even tension as the saw head descends, but that is another whole
post in itself . . . .

3--The deepest cut my saw will make is 7.75". Isn't it supposed to
cut 8.5" deep. A longer support arm would help with that.

4--Looking from the end of my saw, the saw head is at a 41 degree
angle from the table. I thought it should be at a 45 degree angle,
but I have no real reason to expect that. Wayne said his is at a 43
degree angle, so I guess mine may be off by a little.


Here is something else that confuses me which may or may not be
related to my alignment problems: The wheels of my saw are not in the
same plane. They have different flange depths, which the parts
suppler, American Fab, told me is OK, but it doesn't make sense to me.
The drive wheel's flange (the part that the back of the blade can
bump against) is 1.5" from the saw frame (measuring from the flange to
the surface of the 1/4" thick plate that holds the wheel mechanism).
The non-drive wheel's flange is 2" from the saw frame. If this is
truely the way that this saw was designed, then this just seems like a
poor design to me.

Any words of wisdom about these alignment issues will be appreciated.

--Harry
  #5  
Old April 14th 04, 05:24 AM
Jerry S
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Posts: n/a
Default Carolina Bandsaw (HD10?) measurment needed

(Harry McDaniel) wrote in message . com...
Thanks for the measurements and ideas Wayne and John. Since you both
said the arm measures 10 5/16" hole-to-hole, that must be the correct
size (unless my saw is not really a HD10 and the other models use a
different size arm). Mine is a tiny bit shorter--10" +/- 1/16", but
that difference does not explain the problems I am having with
alignment. The alignment issue that you corrected on your saw, Wayne,
does not seem to be a problem on mine. My blade follows a square
nicely as I raise and lower the saw head. Here are the symptoms that
led me to think that the arm was too short, perhaps someone else can
see another explanation:

1--With my saw adjusted to the best of my understanding, the blade
does not complete the cut (pass beyond the plane of the saw bed)
unless I set the saw head to pivot beyond the horizontal position
AND/OR I set the lower blade guide at an angle (by tilting it in it's
adjustment slots on the saw frame) to force the blade to make a
little deeper cut.

When I bought the saw, it was set so that the head was angled down at
the end of the cut (i.e. the main square tube of the frame was not
parallel with the floor; the motor end was higher than the other end).
This did not look right to me. All of the Carolina (and Ramco)
Bandsaws that I have seen in pictures seem to end the cut with the
square tube parallel to the floor, so I made adjustments in the blade
guides until it could almost complete the cut "properly". Am I off
track with this idea? Surely the lower blade guide should not be set
at an angle; if it was supposed to be extended that far then I think
the slots would have simply been cut further down.

By extending the support arm (mentioned in my original question) and
raising the high side of the saw, I would lower the blade slightly.

2--When I raised the saw head to a vertical position, the gear case
bumped the nut that was welded to the base to hold the tension spring,
preventing the saw from pivoting to a full upright position. Surely
that is not intended in the design of the saw. A longer support arm
would put the gear case further from that nut. I have cut off that
nut and I am working on a new spring attachment which will provide
more even tension as the saw head descends, but that is another whole
post in itself . . . .

3--The deepest cut my saw will make is 7.75". Isn't it supposed to
cut 8.5" deep. A longer support arm would help with that.

4--Looking from the end of my saw, the saw head is at a 41 degree
angle from the table. I thought it should be at a 45 degree angle,
but I have no real reason to expect that. Wayne said his is at a 43
degree angle, so I guess mine may be off by a little.


Here is something else that confuses me which may or may not be
related to my alignment problems: The wheels of my saw are not in the
same plane. They have different flange depths, which the parts
suppler, American Fab, told me is OK, but it doesn't make sense to me.
The drive wheel's flange (the part that the back of the blade can
bump against) is 1.5" from the saw frame (measuring from the flange to
the surface of the 1/4" thick plate that holds the wheel mechanism).
The non-drive wheel's flange is 2" from the saw frame. If this is
truely the way that this saw was designed, then this just seems like a
poor design to me.

Any words of wisdom about these alignment issues will be appreciated.

--Harry


Harry,
I recently bought an old Carolina HD10 and am trying to set it up like
you are. I'm a little concerned that the frame just isn't stiff
enough. I'm thinking of welding gussets on the back of the plates.

However, my bandsaw goes 3/8" past the table when horizontal. I think
your problem must be alignment but perhaps it is that the saw was just
made high. One possible fix would be to put a 5/16" plate on top of
the work surface. You would lose 5/16 of travel, is that a problem?
First thing I would do is play with the blade guides: they move in
out up and down. You should be able to move the blade around. Then
you'll probably have to adjust the tracking. BTW, both of my drive
wheels are over 2" from the 1/4" plate so you may want to look at your
gearbox so see if someone shimmed it or something.

BTW, I paid american fab $10 for a manual and it isn't worth much.

I put a coolant system on mine but it drips a lot off the tail end.
I'm working on a recovery system for to go under the corner but keep
thinking there must be a more elegant way.

Finally, I started a Yahoo group called "bandsaw" if someone wants to
post some photos. I'm new to this group so I hope it's not bad form
to mention Yahoo groups.

Cheers,
Jerry

I'm also putt
  #6  
Old April 14th 04, 05:35 PM
Harry McDaniel
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Posts: n/a
Default Carolina Bandsaw (HD10?) measurment needed

The more I read about Carolina Bandsaws, the less enthusiastic I am
about my saw. I have reviewed most of the postings in this group.
Carolina Bandsaws seem to be rather poorly engineered and not always
well constructed. None-the-less, my saw is still a large capacity
bandsaw for the price--good for a sculptor such as myself. I suppose
I would buy one again, but I would look for a newer, better-maintained
one or expect to pay less than $250. I began tuning up my saw with
the idea of restoring it to it's original level of function; now I am
ready to start cutting, welding, and generally adapting it to be a
better saw than it probably was at the start.

Jerry said:
I'm a little concerned that the frame just isn't stiff
enough. I'm thinking of welding gussets on the back of the plates.


I have been thinking along these lines too. My idea is to cut two
pieces of 1/8" plate 14" X 3" and weld one on each end of the saw.
One end of the piece would be welded to the square column and one edge
would be welded to the plate that the wheel is attached to. I think
this would add a lot of rigidity with a minimal effort. It should
take care of some vibration. I would trim the wheel covers and
replace the hinges.

I think
your problem must be alignment but perhaps it is that the saw was just
made high. One possible fix would be to put a 5/16" plate on top of
the work surface. You would lose 5/16 of travel, is that a problem?


The throat depth of my saw, as it is, will not allow a cut deeper than
7.75". Isn't it supposed to cut 8.5" deep? I don't think the pivot
is set too high.

First thing I would do is play with the blade guides: they move in
out up and down. You should be able to move the blade around. Then
you'll probably have to adjust the tracking.


I have played around with them. They are set to the positions that
push the blade as far down as possible, in fact, too far I think,
since the lower blade guide assembly is angled in its slots.

BTW, both of my drive
wheels are over 2" from the 1/4" plate so you may want to look at your
gearbox so see if someone shimmed it or something.


I wonder if my gearbox is not original since several people have
mentioned that the gearboxes on these saws tend to give out. Mine is
a Boston Gear Box--300 Series. Is that typical?

BTW, I paid american fab $10 for a manual and it isn't worth much.


I am not surprised to hear that the manual is lame. I received a
couple of pages of alignment instructions from American Fab (for their
newer Ramco saws which appear to be nearly identical to the Carolina
saws) when I ordered some replacement parts. Several sections of the
instructions are confusing or incomplete. For instance, they suggest
using a fish scale to check the descending weight of the saw head in
order to set the spring tension. They say the saw head should weigh
9-10 pounds (without the hydraulic cylinder engaged) if the spring
tension is set correctly. The problem is they don't tell you where to
attach the scale to the saw head. The saw head is a lever--the closer
you put the scale to the pivot point, the greater the weight will be!
Oh well, I can figure out the appropriate pressure by referring to
blade manufacturers PSI recommendations.
 




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