Gentlemen:

I'm designing a gate to go across a customer's driveway. Total span
of 16 feet, with two eight-foot swinging leaves. Plan A was to
fabricate the gate from 14 ga steel tubing, then face it with wood to
match the surrounding fence (the theory here being to keep the
swinging weight to a minimum). Unfortunately, the gate needs to be
operated by a power opener, and you can't use one on a solid gate
because wind loads can destroy the opener. But...the gate can't be
see-thru. The customer sees clients in her home, and she has two
rather intimidating dogs who need to be hidden behind the gate during
business hours.

So: Can anyone give me an idea how I can come up with a gate that
obscures view but doesn't provide sufficient surface area to be
affected too much by winds?

Any ideas much appreciated!

-Jon Ward

Jon Ward wrote:

Gentlemen:

I'm designing a gate to go across a customer's driveway. Total span
of 16 feet, with two eight-foot swinging leaves. Plan A was to
fabricate the gate from 14 ga steel tubing, then face it with wood to
match the surrounding fence (the theory here being to keep the
swinging weight to a minimum). Unfortunately, the gate needs to be
operated by a power opener, and you can't use one on a solid gate
because wind loads can destroy the opener. But...the gate can't be
see-thru. The customer sees clients in her home, and she has two
rather intimidating dogs who need to be hidden behind the gate during
business hours.

So: Can anyone give me an idea how I can come up with a gate that
obscures view but doesn't provide sufficient surface area to be
affected too much by winds?

Any ideas much appreciated!

-Jon Ward
use the corrugated fiberglass sheets that they use for carport roofing
to cover the front of the gate...pretty light compared to wood or
sheetmetal...

In article , Jon Ward
wrote:

Gentlemen:

I'm designing a gate to go across a customer's driveway. Total span
of 16 feet, with two eight-foot swinging leaves. Plan A was to
fabricate the gate from 14 ga steel tubing, then face it with wood to
match the surrounding fence (the theory here being to keep the
swinging weight to a minimum). Unfortunately, the gate needs to be
operated by a power opener, and you can't use one on a solid gate
because wind loads can destroy the opener. But...the gate can't be
see-thru. The customer sees clients in her home, and she has two
rather intimidating dogs who need to be hidden behind the gate during
business hours.

So: Can anyone give me an idea how I can come up with a gate that
obscures view but doesn't provide sufficient surface area to be
affected too much by winds?

Any ideas much appreciated!

-Jon Ward

A fine mesh expanded metal painted black.
It should block a lot of light, but still allow air to pass through.
It would be lighter than wood and pretty strong.

http://www.mcnichols.com/products/ex...lat/index.html

A perfect option would be V-louvers, but that would be very costly.

V-louvers are inverted V's stacked a little bit apart.
Air pases right through, but light is blocked.

don't know if its any help, but i've seen people alternate
the wood slats between the front and the back. i'm guessing
if they're about 5" wide, and overlap an inch or two on both
sides of each slat, it'd be hard to get a good view through.

alternately, put the wood in the frame (instead of attached to the
front) at angles.. say.. 20deg? ... like venician blinds. point the
'diagonal' towards another gate, off the property, at bushes, anything
but the house.. anyone peering through might only see a dog's snout
or two.

i'd double check and see what loads the poweropener can handle.
there are 'screw types' instead of piston and/or wormgear models
that won't load the opener (just put the screw in tension).

or maybe a solenoid of some kind? lock the gate in place when
its closed.

2c,
-tony

"jim" wrote in message ...
Jon Ward wrote:

Gentlemen:

I'm designing a gate to go across a customer's driveway.

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 21:39:06 GMT, Ernie Leimkuhler
wrote:

A fine mesh expanded metal painted black.
It should block a lot of light, but still allow air to pass through.
It would be lighter than wood and pretty strong.

http://www.mcnichols.com/products/ex...lat/index.html

A perfect option would be V-louvers, but that would be very costly.

V-louvers are inverted V's stacked a little bit apart.
Air pases right through, but light is blocked.

A little experience with satellite dishs - the perforated models
appear solid, but seem to have nearly the wind resistance of solid as
well. The mesh ones let a lot more air through, but you can see
through easily, or at least up close you can. Gate openers- there are
some beefy ones for sure. Our Big Ugly Dish (perf) has taken some
brutal winds, motor chain-drives a worm gear. Two of the solar
trackers use the exact same mechanism, and those arrays are really
heavy. Only about five feet of leverage on them though. Wouldn't be
surprised if some of the ground-mounted gate openers use the same
scheme. As to the screw-type openers, had a cheapie one once. About
18" of screw travel to move a 12 ft. gate through 100 degrees. A lot
of stress on that thing, especially at the mount. Mechanism proved
tough enough for a light gate, but the mount was a headache. Who
woulda' guessed it, lag screws into a wood post. :-) Very sloppy
where even a little loosness made for too much travel on the gate. A
welded arrangement would have been a huge improvement. An adjustable
pivot would be smart since the geometry has to be just right.

Wayne

Maybe you could rent a louver punch and make some louvered sheet metal panels
from aluminum or something. - GWE

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 21:39:06 GMT, Ernie Leimkuhler

A perfect option would be V-louvers, but that would be very costly.

How about cyclone fencing with wooden slats inserted? Other types of slat
material would work as well.

Bill

--
Advertise your metalworking stuff free he
http://www.wallenderengineering.com/class/index.php


"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
Maybe you could rent a louver punch and make some louvered sheet metal
panels
from aluminum or something. - GWE

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 21:39:06 GMT, Ernie Leimkuhler

A perfect option would be V-louvers, but that would be very costly.

On 23 Mar 2004 12:57:35 -0800, (Jon Ward)
wrote:

Gentlemen:

I'm designing a gate to go across a customer's driveway. Total span
of 16 feet, with two eight-foot swinging leaves. Plan A was to
fabricate the gate from 14 ga steel tubing, then face it with wood to
match the surrounding fence (the theory here being to keep the
swinging weight to a minimum). Unfortunately, the gate needs to be
operated by a power opener, and you can't use one on a solid gate
because wind loads can destroy the opener. But...the gate can't be
see-thru. The customer sees clients in her home, and she has two
rather intimidating dogs who need to be hidden behind the gate during
business hours.

So: Can anyone give me an idea how I can come up with a gate that
obscures view but doesn't provide sufficient surface area to be
affected too much by winds?

Any ideas much appreciated!

-Jon Ward
How about a clutch? It would be pretty simple to build one if a bought
one is too expensive or if a suitable one can't be found. It would be
best if the clutch went between the motor and the actuating arm or
chain wheel. That way the thing would keep running until the gate was
either open or closed. It would need a timer to prevent the motor from
running forever in a jammed situation but I bet the closer already has
something like that. Any gate that blocks a view well might have too
much wind resistance. Even a thick louvered gate where the slats are
on either side of a thick gate still has substantial pressure from the
wind. Imagine if you had a rod with slats extending down. If these
slats are right next to each other or separated by several inches the
area would be the same and so the wind pressure would seem to be the
same. I can suggest some clutch designs if you need to build one. just
tell me what kind of machines you have. And I'm sure there are lots of
folks here who know better than me what would work for a clutch.
ERS

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 21:39:06 GMT, Ernie Leimkuhler
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Ernie, if I get this wrong can you point me to a picture?

/\ /\
/ \ / \
/ \ / \

\ /
\ /
\/

???

Thanks. I have been thinking about something like this. If it's a
legit idea, it would interest me.

A perfect option would be V-louvers, but that would be very costly.

V-louvers are inverted V's stacked a little bit apart.
Air pases right through, but light is blocked.

************************************************** ** sorry

..........no I'm not!
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Does Bill Gates dream of electronic sheep?

In article , Old Nick
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 21:39:06 GMT, Ernie Leimkuhler
vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Ernie, if I get this wrong can you point me to a picture?

/\ /\
/ \ / \
/ \ / \

\ /
\ /
\/

???

More like this, but flatter
Probably a 90 degree included angle in the V.

/\
/ \
/ /\ \
/ \
/ /\ \
/ \
/ /\ \
/ \
/ \

You could do it with 2" x 2" x 1/8" angle iron.

It would have some weight.
Or use aluminum angle instead.
Lighter but spendy.





Thanks. I have been thinking about something like this. If it's a
legit idea, it would interest me.

A perfect option would be V-louvers, but that would be very costly.

V-louvers are inverted V's stacked a little bit apart.
Air pases right through, but light is blocked.

************************************************** ** sorry

.........no I'm not!
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Does Bill Gates dream of electronic sheep?

Jon Ward wrote:
Gentlemen:

I'm designing a gate to go across a customer's driveway. Total span
of 16 feet, with two eight-foot swinging leaves. Plan A was to
fabricate the gate from 14 ga steel tubing, then face it with wood to
match the surrounding fence (the theory here being to keep the
swinging weight to a minimum). Unfortunately, the gate needs to be
operated by a power opener, and you can't use one on a solid gate
because wind loads can destroy the opener. But...the gate can't be
see-thru. The customer sees clients in her home, and she has two
rather intimidating dogs who need to be hidden behind the gate during
business hours.

So: Can anyone give me an idea how I can come up with a gate that
obscures view but doesn't provide sufficient surface area to be
affected too much by winds?

We use a black mesh fabric on construction gates, it lets some air through
but still would present some wind resistance. Given your requirements a
sliding gate might be the only way to go.

On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 03:38:55 GMT, Ernie Leimkuhler
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

This sounds lame, but your picture is what I meant when I said I had
been toying with the idea......brain fart :-

The way I drew it would trap a lot of air, I think, and cause force on
the flat of the gate.

Anyway, thanks for confirming that it's legit.

I was looking at making it wide (like 6" a side) from sheet metal, and
using it for verandah shading. It would be strong, because of the
shape.

More like this, but flatter
Probably a 90 degree included angle in the V.

/\
/ \
/ /\ \
/ \
/ /\ \
/ \
/ /\ \
/ \
/ \

You could do it with 2" x 2" x 1/8" angle iron.

It would have some weight.
Or use aluminum angle instead.
Lighter but spendy.

************************************************** ** sorry

..........no I'm not!
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Does Bill Gates dream of electronic sheep?

On 23 Mar 2004 12:57:35 -0800, (Jon Ward)
brought forth from the murky depths:

So: Can anyone give me an idea how I can come up with a gate that
obscures view but doesn't provide sufficient surface area to be
affected too much by winds?

Any ideas much appreciated!

How about mesh on the dog side and hinged wooden horizontal
slats on the client side which would open only in high wind?
Gravity would keep them down. (If the winds come from one
direction only. Otherwise, mesh might be the only option.)


================================================== ===================
-=Everything in Moderation,=- NoteSHADES(tm) glare guards
-=including moderation.=- http://www.diversify.com
================================================== ===================

On 23 Mar 2004 12:57:35 -0800, (Jon Ward) wrote:
So: Can anyone give me an idea how I can come up with a gate that
obscures view but doesn't provide sufficient surface area to be
affected too much by winds?

Use light horizontal slats, pivoted at the top of each slat on a steel rod.
When the wind gets high, the slats would open under air pressure and
let the wind through. On calmer days, gravity would hold the slats closed
and block the view. In all cases, the rods would provide the necessary
security to keep people out, and dogs in.

Gary

If you have a Tractor Supply Company store in your area you might want
to wander over and check their selection of gate openers.

One problem I see is the dogs. If one of the gates fails to line up just
once, bowser is on the run.

I tried to build swinging gates for my back yard. Two 6 footers. Found
two problems off hand. Wind load (like you) and teenagers. They liked to
hang on them and climb them. Destroyed two different sets of hinges
before I said enough is enough.

Re-designed the gate to roll sideways on a set of wheelchair wheels. My
first big aluminum project. Framed in 1 X 2 inch square tube with 1 inch
tube supports. Spans 16 feet and built like a bridge. Hasn't incurred
any damage so far.

The teenagers are very disappointed. :-)

I'm not. :-))

Regards

Jim Vrzal
Holiday,Fl.


Jon Ward wrote:
Gentlemen:

I'm designing a gate to go across a customer's driveway. Total span
of 16 feet, with two eight-foot swinging leaves. Plan A was to
fabricate the gate from 14 ga steel tubing, then face it with wood to
match the surrounding fence (the theory here being to keep the
swinging weight to a minimum). Unfortunately, the gate needs to be
operated by a power opener, and you can't use one on a solid gate
because wind loads can destroy the opener. But...the gate can't be
see-thru. The customer sees clients in her home, and she has two
rather intimidating dogs who need to be hidden behind the gate during
business hours.

So: Can anyone give me an idea how I can come up with a gate that
obscures view but doesn't provide sufficient surface area to be
affected too much by winds?

Any ideas much appreciated!

-Jon Ward

Hey Jon,

Have you considered a horizontal sliding gate(s). If you have enough
horizontal room, you don't require an overhead structure.

Take care.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
On 23 Mar 2004 12:57:35 -0800, (Jon Ward)
wrote:

Gentlemen:

I'm designing a gate to go across a customer's driveway. Total span
of 16 feet, with two eight-foot swinging leaves. Plan A was to
fabricate the gate from 14 ga steel tubing, then face it with wood to
match the surrounding fence (the theory here being to keep the
swinging weight to a minimum). Unfortunately, the gate needs to be
operated by a power opener, and you can't use one on a solid gate
because wind loads can destroy the opener. But...the gate can't be
see-thru. The customer sees clients in her home, and she has two
rather intimidating dogs who need to be hidden behind the gate during
business hours.

So: Can anyone give me an idea how I can come up with a gate that
obscures view but doesn't provide sufficient surface area to be
affected too much by winds?

Any ideas much appreciated!

-Jon Ward

On 23 Mar 2004 12:57:35 -0800, (Jon Ward)
wrote:


I'm designing a gate to go across a customer's driveway. Total span
of 16 feet, with two eight-foot swinging leaves. Plan A was to
fabricate the gate from 14 ga steel tubing, then face it with wood to
match the surrounding fence (the theory here being to keep the
swinging weight to a minimum). Unfortunately, the gate needs to be
operated by a power opener, and you can't use one on a solid gate
because wind loads can destroy the opener. But...the gate can't be
see-thru. The customer sees clients in her home, and she has two
rather intimidating dogs who need to be hidden behind the gate during
business hours.
You can get bigger openers for commercial gates that should be able
to handle the loads of a solid gate. What about perforated metal - say
with 3mm diam holes in it. Breaks up the view, and has a hole area
around 50%.
Better have a solid post to hang these off - they are big gates
Geoff

Jon Ward wrote:

Gentlemen:

I'm designing a gate to go across a customer's driveway. Total span
of 16 feet, with two eight-foot swinging leaves. Plan A was to
fabricate the gate from 14 ga steel tubing, then face it with wood to
match the surrounding fence (the theory here being to keep the
swinging weight to a minimum). Unfortunately, the gate needs to be
operated by a power opener, and you can't use one on a solid gate
because wind loads can destroy the opener. But...the gate can't be
see-thru. The customer sees clients in her home, and she has two
rather intimidating dogs who need to be hidden behind the gate during
business hours.

So: Can anyone give me an idea how I can come up with a gate that
obscures view but doesn't provide sufficient surface area to be
affected too much by winds?

Any ideas much appreciated!

-Jon Ward

Eliminate the wind load by making the gate retract parallel to the
existing fence instead of swinging out (if the existing layout
permits).

Andy

Ernie Leimkuhler wrote in news:230320041341510989%
:

In article , Jon Ward
wrote:

Gentlemen:

I'm designing a gate to go across a customer's driveway. Total span
of 16 feet, with two eight-foot swinging leaves. Plan A was to
snip

So: Can anyone give me an idea how I can come up with a gate that
obscures view but doesn't provide sufficient surface area to be
affected too much by winds?

Any ideas much appreciated!

-Jon Ward

A fine mesh expanded metal painted black.
It should block a lot of light, but still allow air to pass through.
It would be lighter than wood and pretty strong.

http://www.mcnichols.com/products/ex...lat/index.html

A perfect option would be V-louvers, but that would be very costly.

V-louvers are inverted V's stacked a little bit apart.
Air pases right through, but light is blocked.


I built a 24 foot sliding gate. Wind loads are a significant factor in a
gate this size. I did not need to block the view, but did need to keep
a couple of small dogs from getting out.

I used a McNichols hexagonal mesh painted black - it is rated at 80% open
area. I can testify that it is invisible, and only creates a slight
amount of "darkness" when looking from a distance. It doesn't distract
from the main gate design.

To meet your wind load and opacity specifications, I would agree with
Ernie that V-louvers would work well. Go for the aluminum - the owner
will get tired of painting the steel since they will probably have to
take them apart to get at all the surfaces.

Some other posters have recommended larger operators. IMHO, the time
that the gate is moving is secondary to the amount of force that the wind
can exert on it when it is closed. If I had used a solid gate, it could
have been blown off the track. A large, solid swinging gate will need
some very sturdy posts.

By the way, be sure and check on the local building codes. The safety
requirements for sliding gates are now national (UL 325). I don't know
about swinging ones.

Good luck,
Terry

If anyone needs the proper methods and procedures (and hints and tricks)
for motorized gates...I did hundreds of them over the course of 20 yrs.

Not the metalwork itself, but the operators, tuners, safety and opening
loops etc etc

Gunner

--
The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that
English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words;
on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.
--James D. Nicoll

In article ,
(UM Racer) wrote:

Jon Ward wrote:

Gentlemen:

I'm designing a gate to go across a customer's driveway. Total span
of 16 feet, with two eight-foot swinging leaves. Plan A was to
fabricate the gate from 14 ga steel tubing, then face it with wood to
match the surrounding fence (the theory here being to keep the
swinging weight to a minimum). Unfortunately, the gate needs to be
operated by a power opener, and you can't use one on a solid gate
because wind loads can destroy the opener. But...the gate can't be
see-thru. The customer sees clients in her home, and she has two
rather intimidating dogs who need to be hidden behind the gate during
business hours.

So: Can anyone give me an idea how I can come up with a gate that
obscures view but doesn't provide sufficient surface area to be
affected too much by winds?

Any ideas much appreciated!

-Jon Ward

Eliminate the wind load by making the gate retract parallel to the
existing fence instead of swinging out (if the existing layout
permits).

Andy

If you have the room. make the gate from TWO 16' gates pivoted at their
center. The wind forces would balance.

--
free men own guns - slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/