I have a 4x6 Fruehauf trailer that has 6x5" hubs (6 studs on
5" center), can I drill and tap it to 5x100mm to mount other
wheels? Will strength be compromised? I can't seem to find 5x100mm
hubs for it anywhere and adapters are $100 each...

On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 13:03:15 GMT, lid (Terry Keeley)
wrote:
I have a 4x6 Fruehauf trailer that has 6x5" hubs (6 studs on
5" center), can I drill and tap it to 5x100mm to mount other
wheels? Will strength be compromised? I can't seem to find 5x100mm
hubs for it anywhere and adapters are $100 each...

Something does not make sense here. Your wanting to drill it for 5 x
100 but go on to say you can not find 5 x 100 hubs and adapters are
expensive.......so.....what would be the reasonining behind wanting to
drill hub for a 5 x 100 hub then?
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1982.
Aquariums since 1956.
Some assholes Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
*Note: There are several *Koi-Lo's* on rec.ponds.
But, I am the one and only original Koi-Lo.
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

that doesn't sound like a good idea for a couple of reasons: The
biggest issue is that the hub probably has bosses cast in the back that
are arranged for 6 bolts. Going to a 5 bolt arrangement will compromise
things. The other issue is the hub size. Can you even get a wheel that
will fit over the hub and still pick up the new l00 mm (less than 4")
bolt pattern?

Terry Keeley wrote:

I have a 4x6 Fruehauf trailer that has 6x5" hubs (6 studs on
5" center), can I drill and tap it to 5x100mm to mount other
wheels? Will strength be compromised? I can't seem to find 5x100mm
hubs for it anywhere and adapters are $100 each...

So I can mount these rims:

http://www.wheelsandcaps.com/catalog...EN&_MODEL=GOLF

On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 13:03:15 GMT, lid (Terry Keeley)
wrote:

I have a 4x6 Fruehauf trailer that has 6x5" hubs (6 studs on
5" center), can I drill and tap it to 5x100mm to mount other
wheels? Will strength be compromised? I can't seem to find 5x100mm
hubs for it anywhere and adapters are $100 each...

Yanno, the wheels on the trailer do not /have/ to match the tow
vehicle. Unless there are other good reasons for totally changing the
wheels that you haven't mentioned yet, my vote is for the old standby
motto - KISS. Keep it Simple...

I'd just get fresh tires, a spare tire and wheel for the trailer, a
bracket or U-bolt tire mount for it, and leave well enough alone.

Depending on the design of the hub, you may not be able to modify
it. I've seen hubs where the stud holes go through cast-in thicker
areas of the hub casting, and if you try drilling another set of holes
they will go through thinner sections of the hub metal and not have
the needed strength. And going from six to five lugs means one or two
of the new holes is liable to intersect an old hole...

And don't forget the bearing housing diameter - the wheel inner hole
needs to bear on this shoulder for proper location, and a metric
design wheel probably will have a different hole diameter. That puts
extra loads on the studs and nuts.

If this is going to work, you need to start with a partially
machined raw hub casting - they can true the face and bore the bearing
seats, grease seal and grease cap areas, but you need to do the finish
cuts on the wheel mounting face and the outer bearing 'hub' area (to
get the diameter for the metric wheels) and drill the stud pattern
yourself.

If you go to this much trouble, make a spare set while you have the
tooling set - and take lots of notes and pictures for later.

And if the wheel offset is radically different (which is common on
wheels meant for a front-drive car) the tires will sit way too far
inboard and can rub on the body or springs, and have the wheel sitting
way inboard will put undue loads on the axle bearings. In that case,
you would need the adapter ring as a spacer, to get the center of the
wheel out over the center of the hub.

If you still want 5x100mm hubs, call Europe - I'll bet they have
them over there. Of course, the bearings and axle stubs will be
totally different, and you'll have to re-engineer the whole USA'n axle
and suspension to make it fit - or buy a complete axle from Europe.

And consider ease of repair - there are only a few standard sizes of
trailer axle bearings and seals, and even Pep Boys stocks them - a bit
of meatball surgery and you can be on your way in an hour or two.
The first time you burn up the bearings on a *******ized setup with
odd metric parts, good luck getting replacement bearings and seals in
a hurry...

-- Bruce --

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 15:03:04 GMT, lid (Terry Keeley)
wrote:




I needed to do something similar (adapting wheels to a different use)
and ended up using 1 inch thick 6061 aluminum plate for an adapter. I
was able to countersink the plate for the hub nuts and tapped the
plate for the lug bolts. I just can't remember what I made the plates
for. I can picture them in my mind though. They may have been for a
jeep. In fact I'm almost positive I used them on a 1952 jeep so I
could run larger diameter rims with good tires.
ERS

Eric R Snow wrote:
On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 15:03:04 GMT, lid (Terry Keeley)
wrote:




I needed to do something similar (adapting wheels to a different use)
and ended up using 1 inch thick 6061 aluminum plate for an adapter. I
was able to countersink the plate for the hub nuts and tapped the
plate for the lug bolts. I just can't remember what I made the plates
for. I can picture them in my mind though. They may have been for a
jeep. In fact I'm almost positive I used them on a 1952 jeep so I
could run larger diameter rims with good tires.
ERS

I had a VW bug dune buggy once that had something similar to that for
Chevy 5 bolt rims. Bolted the adapter plate to the hubs and then the
"new" studs were 5 bolt Chevy. Of course VW used lug bolts, which made
it easier.

JW

Great info guys, that's why I like asking things here, even if they're
only remotely metal related

Never thoought to check the back of the hubs to see what's there and
you're absolutely right, there are bosses at the six bolt locations
so re-drilling is not a viable option.

Found these adaptors, seems a little pricy for a hunk of 1" think
6061 with a few holes and 5 studs:

http://www.adaptitusa.com/index.asp?...TS&Category=10

Doesn't look like there's any shoulder to match the wheel to help
locate it, and what about using aluminum for this part, doesn't seem
the strongest to me.

How about making an adator from some sort of steel with a shoulder to
locate the new wheels? What would be a good material? That way I'd
keep the standard hubs and bearings...

Looks like the offset will work OK.

On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 19:03:07 GMT, lid (Terry Keeley)
wrote:

Great info guys, that's why I like asking things here, even if they're
only remotely metal related

Never thoought to check the back of the hubs to see what's there and
you're absolutely right, there are bosses at the six bolt locations
so re-drilling is not a viable option.

Found these adaptors, seems a little pricy for a hunk of 1" think
6061 with a few holes and 5 studs:

http://www.adaptitusa.com/index.asp?...TS&Category=10

Doesn't look like there's any shoulder to match the wheel to help
locate it, and what about using aluminum for this part, doesn't seem
the strongest to me.

How about making an adator from some sort of steel with a shoulder to
locate the new wheels? What would be a good material? That way I'd
keep the standard hubs and bearings...

Looks like the offset will work OK.
My guess is that these adapters wouldn't be sold if they were likely
to break. But hey, I could be wrong. There are certainly plenty of
people who sell bad stuff and get away with it. But let's talk about
your specifics. 6061-T6 has a yeild strength of 40,000 psi and an
ultimate tensile strength of 45,000 psi. 1018 hot rolled mild steel
has a yeild strength of 31,900 and an ultimate tensile strength of
58,000 psi. Cast steel will be similar to 1018. So I'm thinking that
you can get by with 1 inch thick 6061-T6. As to the locating of the
wheel and adapter look at a wheel. All that I'm familiar with use the
lug nut or bolt as the locating device. Your wheel will have a raised
portion around each hole and the entrance will be tapered. Your lug
nuts or bolts will have a matching taper. This is what locates the
wheel.
ERS

Roy wrote in article
...
On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 13:03:15 GMT, lid (Terry Keeley)
wrote:
I have a 4x6 Fruehauf trailer that has 6x5" hubs (6 studs on
5" center), can I drill and tap it to 5x100mm to mount other
wheels? Will strength be compromised? I can't seem to find 5x100mm
hubs for it anywhere and adapters are $100 each...

Something does not make sense here. Your wanting to drill it for 5 x
100 but go on to say you can not find 5 x 100 hubs and adapters are
expensive.......so.....what would be the reasonining behind wanting to
drill hub for a 5 x 100 hub then?


Go back and read the original post s-l-o-w-l-y......

He wants hubs upon which he can mount WHEELS with a 5 X 100mm bolt pattern.

The wheels ARE available.........

On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 15:03:04 GMT, lid (Terry Keeley)
wrote:

So I can mount these rims:

http://www.wheelsandcaps.com/catalog...EN&_MODEL=GOLF

Ahh, a compelling reason... I take it that those match the ones
that are on the tow vehicle, right?

Go get one of your rims and measure the backside center hole
diameter and depth available. If that hole is smaller than the one on
the existing trailer axle, you have a big problem. There usually
isn't too much meat left to machine off on the larger hub housing, or
you'll hit the outer side of the wheel bearing races.

You can replace the trailer spindles and hubs with the smaller size,
meant for use with 4x4" or 5x4" pattern wheels and 8" high-speed
trailer tires. That will get you a smaller outer diameter of the hub
center, but it's a lot of work.

IDEA! Come to think of it, a 5 on 4" bolt circle hub is a common
boat and tent trailer item, and it is gonna be pretty damned close to
matching the holes on a 5 on 100mm rim - my ruler says 100mm is 3.937
inches. Hmmmmm...

Are the wheel lug holes conical seat, or flat seat with a washer?
If they're conical seat I'll bet you can't fudge it that much.

You can always track down the maker and get undrilled hub blanks, or
have them machine a 5x4" blank hub into a 5x100mm hub. The cast-in
bosses on the back of the hub will be in the right places.

-- Bruce --

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

Eric R Snowwrote:
On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 19:03:07 GMT,
My guess is that these adapters wouldn't be sold if they were
likely
to break. But hey, I could be wrong. There are certainly plenty of
people who sell bad stuff and get away with it. But let's talk
about
your specifics. 6061-T6 has a yeild strength of 40,000 psi and an
ultimate tensile strength of 45,000 psi. 1018 hot rolled mild steel
has a yeild strength of 31,900 and an ultimate tensile strength of
58,000 psi. Cast steel will be similar to 1018. So I'm thinking
that
you can get by with 1 inch thick 6061-T6. As to the locating of
the
wheel and adapter look at a wheel. All that I'm familiar with use
the
lug nut or bolt as the locating device. Your wheel will have a
raised
portion around each hole and the entrance will be tapered. Your lug
nuts or bolts will have a matching taper. This is what locates the
wheel.
ERS

Looks like 6061 would be strong enough then, I had no idea it came
close to 1018 in yeild and tensile strength. If you look at the
adaptors though, there's no shoulder to help support the wheel as
Steve W. suggested. I just don't have a great feeling about using
this method all of a sudden...

Bruce L. Bergmanwrote:
On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 15:03:04 GMT, lid (Terry Keeley)
wrote:

So I can mount these rims:


http://www.wheelsandcaps.com/catalog...EN&_MODEL=GOLF

Ahh, a compelling reason... I take it that those match the ones
that are on the tow vehicle, right?

Go get one of your rims and measure the backside center hole
diameter and depth available. If that hole is smaller than the one
on
the existing trailer axle, you have a big problem. There usually
isn't too much meat left to machine off on the larger hub housing, or
you'll hit the outer side of the wheel bearing races.

You can replace the trailer spindles and hubs with the smaller
size,
meant for use with 4x4" or 5x4" pattern wheels and 8"
high-speed
trailer tires. That will get you a smaller outer diameter of the hub
center, but it's a lot of work.

IDEA! Come to think of it, a 5 on 4" bolt circle hub
is a common
boat and tent trailer item, and it is gonna be pretty damned close to
matching the holes on a 5 on 100mm rim - my ruler says 100mm is 3.937
inches. Hmmmmm...

Are the wheel lug holes conical seat, or flat seat with a washer?
If they're conical seat I'll bet you can't fudge it that much.

You can always track down the maker and get undrilled hub blanks,
or
have them machine a 5x4" blank hub into a 5x100mm hub. The
cast-in
bosses on the back of the hub will be in the right places.

-- Bruce --

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a
net.[/quote:8d8fc75c1b]

Yes, I really want to match my car, here's the "unit" in
question:

http://gallery.intlwaters.com/displa...album=70&pos=3

All good suggestions, thank you.

I think my first choice now is to find unfinished hubs so I can turn a
shoulder to support the wheel and press the studs in at the right
locations (they do have conical lug nuts).

A second choice might be to find 5 bolt hubs with enough meat on them
to re-drill for the 100mm spacing. After what I've heard here I
really don't like the adaptor idea!

On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 20:51:15 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:


"Eric R Snow" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 19:03:07 GMT, lid (Terry Keeley)
wrote:

Great info guys, that's why I like asking things here, even if
they're
only remotely metal related

Never thoought to check the back of the hubs to see what's there and
you're absolutely right, there are bosses at the six bolt locations
so re-drilling is not a viable option.

Found these adaptors, seems a little pricy for a hunk of 1" think
6061 with a few holes and 5 studs:

http://www.adaptitusa.com/index.asp?...TS&Category=10

Doesn't look like there's any shoulder to match the wheel to help
locate it, and what about using aluminum for this part, doesn't seem
the strongest to me.

How about making an adator from some sort of steel with a shoulder to
locate the new wheels? What would be a good material? That way I'd
keep the standard hubs and bearings...

Looks like the offset will work OK.
My guess is that these adapters wouldn't be sold if they were likely
to break. But hey, I could be wrong. There are certainly plenty of
people who sell bad stuff and get away with it. But let's talk about
your specifics. 6061-T6 has a yeild strength of 40,000 psi and an
ultimate tensile strength of 45,000 psi. 1018 hot rolled mild steel
has a yeild strength of 31,900 and an ultimate tensile strength of
58,000 psi. Cast steel will be similar to 1018. So I'm thinking that
you can get by with 1 inch thick 6061-T6. As to the locating of the
wheel and adapter look at a wheel. All that I'm familiar with use the
lug nut or bolt as the locating device. Your wheel will have a raised
portion around each hole and the entrance will be tapered. Your lug
nuts or bolts will have a matching taper. This is what locates the
wheel.
ERS
ONLY a few vehicles use the studs to locate the rim. 99% use the center
hub since it also supports the load. That is what it is there for. Using
wheel studs to locate and support the load is a real good way to get
injured.

I would also ask the OP what he intends to use the trailer for? If you
intend to load it will those rims handle that load? I would bet they
won't. Check those load ratings before you do ANYTHING else.



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Greetings Steve,
I went out and looked at my 92 Toyota truck, 92 Dodge Colt, 85
trailer, 77 Mail Jeep, and 52 M38 Jeep. The 92 Toyota uses a bored
wheel/turned hub for location. The Colt uses the same in front but the
rears rely on the lugnuts. The trailer uses lugnuts as do both of the
jeeps. I'm thinking that since the 92 4WD truck uses the turned hub,
which is a better way, that probably all newer vehicles do this. Odd
that the Colt uses both methods. I bought the Colt new so i know the
wheels are stock. My advice to Terry would be to make the adapters
with locating hubs/bores if possible. Thanks Steve.
ERS

"Eric R Snow" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 20:51:15 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:


"Eric R Snow" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 19:03:07 GMT, lid (Terry Keeley)
wrote:

Great info guys, that's why I like asking things here, even if
they're
only remotely metal related

Never thoought to check the back of the hubs to see what's there
and
you're absolutely right, there are bosses at the six bolt
locations
so re-drilling is not a viable option.

Found these adaptors, seems a little pricy for a hunk of 1" think
6061 with a few holes and 5 studs:


http://www.adaptitusa.com/index.asp?...TS&Category=10

Doesn't look like there's any shoulder to match the wheel to help
locate it, and what about using aluminum for this part, doesn't
seem
the strongest to me.

How about making an adator from some sort of steel with a shoulder
to
locate the new wheels? What would be a good material? That way
I'd
keep the standard hubs and bearings...

Looks like the offset will work OK.
My guess is that these adapters wouldn't be sold if they were
likely
to break. But hey, I could be wrong. There are certainly plenty of
people who sell bad stuff and get away with it. But let's talk
about
your specifics. 6061-T6 has a yeild strength of 40,000 psi and an
ultimate tensile strength of 45,000 psi. 1018 hot rolled mild steel
has a yeild strength of 31,900 and an ultimate tensile strength of
58,000 psi. Cast steel will be similar to 1018. So I'm thinking
that
you can get by with 1 inch thick 6061-T6. As to the locating of
the
wheel and adapter look at a wheel. All that I'm familiar with use
the
lug nut or bolt as the locating device. Your wheel will have a
raised
portion around each hole and the entrance will be tapered. Your lug
nuts or bolts will have a matching taper. This is what locates the
wheel.
ERS
ONLY a few vehicles use the studs to locate the rim. 99% use the
center
hub since it also supports the load. That is what it is there for.
Using
wheel studs to locate and support the load is a real good way to get
injured.

I would also ask the OP what he intends to use the trailer for? If
you
intend to load it will those rims handle that load? I would bet they
won't. Check those load ratings before you do ANYTHING else.



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Greetings Steve,
I went out and looked at my 92 Toyota truck, 92 Dodge Colt, 85
trailer, 77 Mail Jeep, and 52 M38 Jeep. The 92 Toyota uses a bored
wheel/turned hub for location. The Colt uses the same in front but the
rears rely on the lugnuts. The trailer uses lugnuts as do both of the
jeeps. I'm thinking that since the 92 4WD truck uses the turned hub,
which is a better way, that probably all newer vehicles do this. Odd
that the Colt uses both methods. I bought the Colt new so i know the
wheels are stock. My advice to Terry would be to make the adapters
with locating hubs/bores if possible. Thanks Steve.
ERS

Hub location has been used by Ford GM and Dodge since just about day
one of production. The Jeeps used hub location with civilian models
since about 62-63.

--
Steve W.
Life is not like a box of chocolates
it's more like a jar of jalapenos-
what you do today could burn your ass tomorrow!









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"Steve W." wrote in message
...

"Eric R Snow" wrote in message
...
Greetings Steve,
I went out and looked at my 92 Toyota truck, 92 Dodge Colt, 85
trailer, 77 Mail Jeep, and 52 M38 Jeep. The 92 Toyota uses a bored
wheel/turned hub for location. The Colt uses the same in front but the
rears rely on the lugnuts. The trailer uses lugnuts as do both of the
jeeps. I'm thinking that since the 92 4WD truck uses the turned hub,
which is a better way, that probably all newer vehicles do this. Odd
that the Colt uses both methods. I bought the Colt new so i know the
wheels are stock. My advice to Terry would be to make the adapters
with locating hubs/bores if possible. Thanks Steve.
ERS

Hub location has been used by Ford GM and Dodge since just about day
one of production. The Jeeps used hub location with civilian models
since about 62-63.

Don't forget that the Colt was a Mitsubishi product with either a Dodge or a
Plymouth nameplate. [Sorta like the early Neons.]

On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 20:24:22 -0500, "RAM³"
wrote:

"Steve W." wrote in message
...

"Eric R Snow" wrote in message
...
Greetings Steve,
I went out and looked at my 92 Toyota truck, 92 Dodge Colt, 85
trailer, 77 Mail Jeep, and 52 M38 Jeep. The 92 Toyota uses a bored
wheel/turned hub for location. The Colt uses the same in front but the
rears rely on the lugnuts. The trailer uses lugnuts as do both of the
jeeps. I'm thinking that since the 92 4WD truck uses the turned hub,
which is a better way, that probably all newer vehicles do this. Odd
that the Colt uses both methods. I bought the Colt new so i know the
wheels are stock. My advice to Terry would be to make the adapters
with locating hubs/bores if possible. Thanks Steve.
ERS

Hub location has been used by Ford GM and Dodge since just about day
one of production. The Jeeps used hub location with civilian models
since about 62-63.

Don't forget that the Colt was a Mitsubishi product with either a Dodge or a
Plymouth nameplate. [Sorta like the early Neons.]


WHAT??!! My Dodge Colt was made by Mitsubishi??!! They never told me
that when I was buying it! Though it did look a lot like the
Mitsubishi Colt down the street. But that doesn't mean anything. I
remember when I bought my first cassette player. It was a Superscope.
It looked just like a Sony cassette player though. I was suspicioius
until I was told that Sony stood for Superscope Of New York. I think
that Dodge made Colts in the US and Mitsubishi made Colts in Japan
under licence. Yeah, that's it.
ERS

After having a closer look I discovered the difference in offset
between the wheels that are on it and the ones I'm mounting is
1.5"! Soooo, I'll need to space the wheel out at least an inch
to keep it from rubbing on the inside.

I've decided to make an adpter ring and since the VW whhels I'm trying
to mount use 14mm bolts I won't use aluminum, I'll have to make them
out of some sort of steel.

Looks like they'll be 1.5" thick and about 6" diameter with
a 2.5" center hole. The new 5x4.5" Dexter hubs I bought
have enough meat on the center "stub" that I can trim it
slightly to go through and help support the wheel.

What I'm wondering is what's a good material to use (thinking just
cold-rolled plate?) and will the extra weight hanging on the drums
cause problems?