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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

How to make "divot" in 1/4" aluminum plate



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 14th 06, 07:48 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default How to make "divot" in 1/4" aluminum plate

Hello folks.
I am writing to get some suggestions for making an aluminum deck hatch
for a boat.
These hatches are mounted flush with the floor (deck) of a boat and are
watertight.

I am just in the thinking it out stage, but would appretiate any input
the group may have.
The product I am trying to duplicate is:
http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse.cfm/4,224.htm
It is basically a piece of 1/4" diamond tread aluminum plate. This
plate has a series of "dogs" or latches which secure the hatch into a
stainless steel frame. the dogs are pieces of stainless flat stock
attached to a nut which is operated from above the hatch with a socket.
each dog has a corresponding divot in the hatch which serves to recess
the operating nut flush with the top of the hatch. The divots are
approximately 3" in diameter and 3/16" deep.

My question is this: is it possible to make these divots using a
hydraulic press (the sort with the hydraulic jack) and some dies? or
does this type of forming require a punch-press type of sudden impact
to get the desired results?
I have acess to a lathe to make the dies. I would like to produce say 8
hatches with 4 divots each.

any suggestions would be appretiated (including "go buy them you cheap
p.....")
Andy Hall
Lynn, MA

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  #2  
Old March 14th 06, 10:51 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default How to make "divot" in 1/4" aluminum plate


"andy" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello folks.
I am writing to get some suggestions for making an aluminum deck hatch
for a boat.
These hatches are mounted flush with the floor (deck) of a boat and are
watertight.

I am just in the thinking it out stage, but would appretiate any input
the group may have.
The product I am trying to duplicate is:
http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse.cfm/4,224.htm
It is basically a piece of 1/4" diamond tread aluminum plate. This
plate has a series of "dogs" or latches which secure the hatch into a
stainless steel frame. the dogs are pieces of stainless flat stock
attached to a nut which is operated from above the hatch with a socket.
each dog has a corresponding divot in the hatch which serves to recess
the operating nut flush with the top of the hatch. The divots are
approximately 3" in diameter and 3/16" deep.


This advice is worth exactly what you paid, but...

You'll probably run into issues with wrinkling, basically. A shop hydraulic
press could probably do it, but anything just beyond the radius of your
divots will probably wrinkle unless you have a binder on the die (perhaps
called a "draw ring" or something similar. We call them binders).

Also, you'll have to do any other forming (for the diamond pattern, for
instance) after the divots are made unless you don't mind the binder/draw
ring leaving a ringed mark around each divot.

Lastly, and of least importance, you'll have to create your outside edges
last as you will probably get a least some "draw" effect, even if your die
is mostly stretching the material. Essentially your square blank will not be
square after the divots and diamond patters have been produced as material
will be drawn into these forms.

I'd wager the manufacturer uses a draw die to create the divots and pattern
in one operation (maybe two) and then uses a pierce and trim die to complete
the part. You would not be able to run the draw die on a shop press. Chances
are you'd need a punch press (perhaps with a draw cushion for the binder) of
over 100 tons, although I could be wrong with that number.

Boats are holes in the water into which you pour money. Didn't anyone tell
you before you bought?

Regards,

Robin


  #3  
Old March 14th 06, 11:02 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default How to make "divot" in 1/4" aluminum plate

I can't say I've done that one but the principle is pretty easy: just
use a suitable male and female die. Tonnage will vary with the exact
shape of the angles and clearances you put in there. Large clearances
will reduce the tonnage but make it more difficult to get the clean
lines you would like. A quick calc for 6061-T6 says that it should be
easy with a 50 ton shop press, suspect less would work
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=46768

Die design is a bit tricky. You need to have a retainer ring to hold the
plate flat while you extrude though the center of the ring. If you don't
hold it flat the plate will 'pucker'

andy wrote:

Hello folks.
I am writing to get some suggestions for making an aluminum deck hatch
for a boat.
These hatches are mounted flush with the floor (deck) of a boat and are
watertight.

I am just in the thinking it out stage, but would appretiate any input
the group may have.
The product I am trying to duplicate is:
http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse.cfm/4,224.htm
It is basically a piece of 1/4" diamond tread aluminum plate. This
plate has a series of "dogs" or latches which secure the hatch into a
stainless steel frame. the dogs are pieces of stainless flat stock
attached to a nut which is operated from above the hatch with a socket.
each dog has a corresponding divot in the hatch which serves to recess
the operating nut flush with the top of the hatch. The divots are
approximately 3" in diameter and 3/16" deep.

My question is this: is it possible to make these divots using a
hydraulic press (the sort with the hydraulic jack) and some dies? or
does this type of forming require a punch-press type of sudden impact
to get the desired results?
I have acess to a lathe to make the dies. I would like to produce say 8
hatches with 4 divots each.

any suggestions would be appretiated (including "go buy them you cheap
p.....")
Andy Hall
Lynn, MA

  #4  
Old March 15th 06, 02:11 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: n/a
Default How to make "divot" in 1/4" aluminum plate



RoyJ wrote:

I can't say I've done that one but the principle is pretty easy: just
use a suitable male and female die. Tonnage will vary with the exact
shape of the angles and clearances you put in there. Large clearances
will reduce the tonnage but make it more difficult to get the clean
lines you would like. A quick calc for 6061-T6 says that it should be
easy with a 50 ton shop press, suspect less would work
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=46768

Die design is a bit tricky. You need to have a retainer ring to hold the
plate flat while you extrude though the center of the ring. If you don't
hold it flat the plate will 'pucker'

andy wrote:

Hello folks.
I am writing to get some suggestions for making an aluminum deck hatch
for a boat.
These hatches are mounted flush with the floor (deck) of a boat and are
watertight.

I am just in the thinking it out stage, but would appretiate any input
the group may have.
The product I am trying to duplicate is:
http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse.cfm/4,224.htm
It is basically a piece of 1/4" diamond tread aluminum plate. This
plate has a series of "dogs" or latches which secure the hatch into a
stainless steel frame. the dogs are pieces of stainless flat stock
attached to a nut which is operated from above the hatch with a socket.
each dog has a corresponding divot in the hatch which serves to recess
the operating nut flush with the top of the hatch. The divots are
approximately 3" in diameter and 3/16" deep.

My question is this: is it possible to make these divots using a
hydraulic press (the sort with the hydraulic jack) and some dies? or
does this type of forming require a punch-press type of sudden impact
to get the desired results?
I have acess to a lathe to make the dies. I would like to produce say 8
hatches with 4 divots each.

any suggestions would be appretiated (including "go buy them you cheap
p.....")
Andy Hall
Lynn, MA



6061 t6 will most likely crack before you complete the forming. If
you anneal it it will eliminate the problem, but then you will have to
get it retempered.

A cheap and dirty way of making them is to make a form out of hard oak
wood and pound it out with a ball-peen hammer into the form. Start from
the middle and work outwards. You may have to anneal the metal as you
go if you workharden it too much. Make sure you polish the end of the
hammer so it will not leave marks in the aluminum.


John

  #5  
Old March 15th 06, 04:44 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default How to make "divot" in 1/4" aluminum plate

He only wants to go down 3/16" of an inch on a 3" diameter divot. I was
figuring that as a 3/16" offset over an inch or so span. Total bend of
20 degrees with 1/2" inside radius.

I agree that the beat it down with a wood block has possibilites, even
if it is just for a quick sample. Making up the stock is probably a
foregone conclusion though.

john wrote:


RoyJ wrote:

I can't say I've done that one but the principle is pretty easy: just
use a suitable male and female die. Tonnage will vary with the exact
shape of the angles and clearances you put in there. Large clearances
will reduce the tonnage but make it more difficult to get the clean
lines you would like. A quick calc for 6061-T6 says that it should be
easy with a 50 ton shop press, suspect less would work
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=46768

Die design is a bit tricky. You need to have a retainer ring to hold
the plate flat while you extrude though the center of the ring. If you
don't hold it flat the plate will 'pucker'

andy wrote:

Hello folks.
I am writing to get some suggestions for making an aluminum deck hatch
for a boat.
These hatches are mounted flush with the floor (deck) of a boat and are
watertight.

I am just in the thinking it out stage, but would appretiate any input
the group may have.
The product I am trying to duplicate is:
http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse.cfm/4,224.htm
It is basically a piece of 1/4" diamond tread aluminum plate. This
plate has a series of "dogs" or latches which secure the hatch into a
stainless steel frame. the dogs are pieces of stainless flat stock
attached to a nut which is operated from above the hatch with a socket.
each dog has a corresponding divot in the hatch which serves to recess
the operating nut flush with the top of the hatch. The divots are
approximately 3" in diameter and 3/16" deep.

My question is this: is it possible to make these divots using a
hydraulic press (the sort with the hydraulic jack) and some dies? or
does this type of forming require a punch-press type of sudden impact
to get the desired results?
I have acess to a lathe to make the dies. I would like to produce say 8
hatches with 4 divots each.

any suggestions would be appretiated (including "go buy them you cheap
p.....")
Andy Hall
Lynn, MA



6061 t6 will most likely crack before you complete the forming. If
you anneal it it will eliminate the problem, but then you will have to
get it retempered.

A cheap and dirty way of making them is to make a form out of hard oak
wood and pound it out with a ball-peen hammer into the form. Start from
the middle and work outwards. You may have to anneal the metal as you
go if you workharden it too much. Make sure you polish the end of the
hammer so it will not leave marks in the aluminum.


John

  #6  
Old March 15th 06, 05:54 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: n/a
Default How to make "divot" in 1/4" aluminum plate

I would try the following idea first: since you have a hole in the
centre of the divot why not use this with a suitable fine pitch HT
screw to draw the two pieces of the die together?
It certainly worked or me but that was in a little thinner material and
not threadplate.
You could always heat the area first (hot enough to blacken a piece of
pine wood when touched to the area) and then quickly draw the die
together. The heated alumunium deforms easily.
You'd have to practise that on an offcut first to see if the overall
flatness gets distorted by the process.
Klaus

  #7  
Old March 15th 06, 02:31 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: n/a
Default How to make "divot" in 1/4" aluminum plate

Thank you for all the replies. It sounds like a die with draw plate
and a 100 ton punch press would be the way to get "factory type"
results. I also gather that die design is not a trivial matter.

I did notice that the tread pattern on the store-bought hatches is not
the same as the material I normally associate with diamond tread. It
could be that they stamp the tread and divots in one operation as Robin
suggested. I also did not think about the final shape of the hatch
changing shape after divoting (makes sense)

The pound it into an oak form is right up my alley. I will have to give
it a try.

Maybe I can latch this hatch down in some other fashion. As it type
this i am thinking something involving a flathead fastener in a
countersink. Any alternative latching ideas would also be gratefully
accepted.

If all else fails, I could use plywood and epoxy for the hatch.
(sheepishly admitting that I am more comfortable with this medium
anyway)
Thank you all again
Andy

  #9  
Old March 15th 06, 06:33 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: n/a
Default How to make "divot" in 1/4" aluminum plate

If it is the polished diamond plate it is probably a 3000 series
aluminum and can be bent and formed fairly easily. If it is the dull
mill finish it is 6061 and does not take bending or forming without
annealing first.

john wrote:



6061 t6 will most likely crack before you complete the forming. If
you anneal it it will eliminate the problem, but then you will have to
get it retempered.

A cheap and dirty way of making them is to make a form out of hard oak
wood and pound it out with a ball-peen hammer into the form. Start from
the middle and work outwards. You may have to anneal the metal as you
go if you workharden it too much. Make sure you polish the end of the
hammer so it will not leave marks in the aluminum.


John

  #10  
Old March 15th 06, 06:44 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How to make "divot" in 1/4" aluminum plate

On 15 Mar 2006 05:31:10 -0800, "andy"
wrote:

Thank you for all the replies. It sounds like a die with draw plate
and a 100 ton punch press would be the way to get "factory type"
results. I also gather that die design is not a trivial matter.

I did notice that the tread pattern on the store-bought hatches is not
the same as the material I normally associate with diamond tread. It
could be that they stamp the tread and divots in one operation as Robin
suggested. I also did not think about the final shape of the hatch
changing shape after divoting (makes sense)

The pound it into an oak form is right up my alley. I will have to give
it a try.

Maybe I can latch this hatch down in some other fashion. As it type
this i am thinking something involving a flathead fastener in a
countersink. Any alternative latching ideas would also be gratefully
accepted.

If all else fails, I could use plywood and epoxy for the hatch.
(sheepishly admitting that I am more comfortable with this medium
anyway)
Thank you all again
Andy


Drill holes, chamfer them, weld cover plates on the back.
 




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