How to make "divot" in 1/4" aluminum plate
Hello folks.
I am writing to get some suggestions for making an aluminum deck hatch for a boat. These hatches are mounted flush with the floor (deck) of a boat and are watertight. I am just in the thinking it out stage, but would appretiate any input the group may have. The product I am trying to duplicate is: http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse.cfm/4,224.htm It is basically a piece of 1/4" diamond tread aluminum plate. This plate has a series of "dogs" or latches which secure the hatch into a stainless steel frame. the dogs are pieces of stainless flat stock attached to a nut which is operated from above the hatch with a socket. each dog has a corresponding divot in the hatch which serves to recess the operating nut flush with the top of the hatch. The divots are approximately 3" in diameter and 3/16" deep. My question is this: is it possible to make these divots using a hydraulic press (the sort with the hydraulic jack) and some dies? or does this type of forming require a punch-press type of sudden impact to get the desired results? I have acess to a lathe to make the dies. I would like to produce say 8 hatches with 4 divots each. any suggestions would be appretiated (including "go buy them you cheap p.....") Andy Hall Lynn, MA |
How to make "divot" in 1/4" aluminum plate
"andy" wrote in message oups.com... Hello folks. I am writing to get some suggestions for making an aluminum deck hatch for a boat. These hatches are mounted flush with the floor (deck) of a boat and are watertight. I am just in the thinking it out stage, but would appretiate any input the group may have. The product I am trying to duplicate is: http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse.cfm/4,224.htm It is basically a piece of 1/4" diamond tread aluminum plate. This plate has a series of "dogs" or latches which secure the hatch into a stainless steel frame. the dogs are pieces of stainless flat stock attached to a nut which is operated from above the hatch with a socket. each dog has a corresponding divot in the hatch which serves to recess the operating nut flush with the top of the hatch. The divots are approximately 3" in diameter and 3/16" deep. This advice is worth exactly what you paid, but... You'll probably run into issues with wrinkling, basically. A shop hydraulic press could probably do it, but anything just beyond the radius of your divots will probably wrinkle unless you have a binder on the die (perhaps called a "draw ring" or something similar. We call them binders). Also, you'll have to do any other forming (for the diamond pattern, for instance) after the divots are made unless you don't mind the binder/draw ring leaving a ringed mark around each divot. Lastly, and of least importance, you'll have to create your outside edges last as you will probably get a least some "draw" effect, even if your die is mostly stretching the material. Essentially your square blank will not be square after the divots and diamond patters have been produced as material will be drawn into these forms. I'd wager the manufacturer uses a draw die to create the divots and pattern in one operation (maybe two) and then uses a pierce and trim die to complete the part. You would not be able to run the draw die on a shop press. Chances are you'd need a punch press (perhaps with a draw cushion for the binder) of over 100 tons, although I could be wrong with that number. Boats are holes in the water into which you pour money. Didn't anyone tell you before you bought? Regards, Robin |
How to make "divot" in 1/4" aluminum plate
I can't say I've done that one but the principle is pretty easy: just
use a suitable male and female die. Tonnage will vary with the exact shape of the angles and clearances you put in there. Large clearances will reduce the tonnage but make it more difficult to get the clean lines you would like. A quick calc for 6061-T6 says that it should be easy with a 50 ton shop press, suspect less would work http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=46768 Die design is a bit tricky. You need to have a retainer ring to hold the plate flat while you extrude though the center of the ring. If you don't hold it flat the plate will 'pucker' andy wrote: Hello folks. I am writing to get some suggestions for making an aluminum deck hatch for a boat. These hatches are mounted flush with the floor (deck) of a boat and are watertight. I am just in the thinking it out stage, but would appretiate any input the group may have. The product I am trying to duplicate is: http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse.cfm/4,224.htm It is basically a piece of 1/4" diamond tread aluminum plate. This plate has a series of "dogs" or latches which secure the hatch into a stainless steel frame. the dogs are pieces of stainless flat stock attached to a nut which is operated from above the hatch with a socket. each dog has a corresponding divot in the hatch which serves to recess the operating nut flush with the top of the hatch. The divots are approximately 3" in diameter and 3/16" deep. My question is this: is it possible to make these divots using a hydraulic press (the sort with the hydraulic jack) and some dies? or does this type of forming require a punch-press type of sudden impact to get the desired results? I have acess to a lathe to make the dies. I would like to produce say 8 hatches with 4 divots each. any suggestions would be appretiated (including "go buy them you cheap p.....") Andy Hall Lynn, MA |
How to make "divot" in 1/4" aluminum plate
RoyJ wrote: I can't say I've done that one but the principle is pretty easy: just use a suitable male and female die. Tonnage will vary with the exact shape of the angles and clearances you put in there. Large clearances will reduce the tonnage but make it more difficult to get the clean lines you would like. A quick calc for 6061-T6 says that it should be easy with a 50 ton shop press, suspect less would work http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=46768 Die design is a bit tricky. You need to have a retainer ring to hold the plate flat while you extrude though the center of the ring. If you don't hold it flat the plate will 'pucker' andy wrote: Hello folks. I am writing to get some suggestions for making an aluminum deck hatch for a boat. These hatches are mounted flush with the floor (deck) of a boat and are watertight. I am just in the thinking it out stage, but would appretiate any input the group may have. The product I am trying to duplicate is: http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse.cfm/4,224.htm It is basically a piece of 1/4" diamond tread aluminum plate. This plate has a series of "dogs" or latches which secure the hatch into a stainless steel frame. the dogs are pieces of stainless flat stock attached to a nut which is operated from above the hatch with a socket. each dog has a corresponding divot in the hatch which serves to recess the operating nut flush with the top of the hatch. The divots are approximately 3" in diameter and 3/16" deep. My question is this: is it possible to make these divots using a hydraulic press (the sort with the hydraulic jack) and some dies? or does this type of forming require a punch-press type of sudden impact to get the desired results? I have acess to a lathe to make the dies. I would like to produce say 8 hatches with 4 divots each. any suggestions would be appretiated (including "go buy them you cheap p.....") Andy Hall Lynn, MA 6061 t6 will most likely crack before you complete the forming. If you anneal it it will eliminate the problem, but then you will have to get it retempered. A cheap and dirty way of making them is to make a form out of hard oak wood and pound it out with a ball-peen hammer into the form. Start from the middle and work outwards. You may have to anneal the metal as you go if you workharden it too much. Make sure you polish the end of the hammer so it will not leave marks in the aluminum. John |
How to make "divot" in 1/4" aluminum plate
He only wants to go down 3/16" of an inch on a 3" diameter divot. I was
figuring that as a 3/16" offset over an inch or so span. Total bend of 20 degrees with 1/2" inside radius. I agree that the beat it down with a wood block has possibilites, even if it is just for a quick sample. Making up the stock is probably a foregone conclusion though. john wrote: RoyJ wrote: I can't say I've done that one but the principle is pretty easy: just use a suitable male and female die. Tonnage will vary with the exact shape of the angles and clearances you put in there. Large clearances will reduce the tonnage but make it more difficult to get the clean lines you would like. A quick calc for 6061-T6 says that it should be easy with a 50 ton shop press, suspect less would work http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=46768 Die design is a bit tricky. You need to have a retainer ring to hold the plate flat while you extrude though the center of the ring. If you don't hold it flat the plate will 'pucker' andy wrote: Hello folks. I am writing to get some suggestions for making an aluminum deck hatch for a boat. These hatches are mounted flush with the floor (deck) of a boat and are watertight. I am just in the thinking it out stage, but would appretiate any input the group may have. The product I am trying to duplicate is: http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse.cfm/4,224.htm It is basically a piece of 1/4" diamond tread aluminum plate. This plate has a series of "dogs" or latches which secure the hatch into a stainless steel frame. the dogs are pieces of stainless flat stock attached to a nut which is operated from above the hatch with a socket. each dog has a corresponding divot in the hatch which serves to recess the operating nut flush with the top of the hatch. The divots are approximately 3" in diameter and 3/16" deep. My question is this: is it possible to make these divots using a hydraulic press (the sort with the hydraulic jack) and some dies? or does this type of forming require a punch-press type of sudden impact to get the desired results? I have acess to a lathe to make the dies. I would like to produce say 8 hatches with 4 divots each. any suggestions would be appretiated (including "go buy them you cheap p.....") Andy Hall Lynn, MA 6061 t6 will most likely crack before you complete the forming. If you anneal it it will eliminate the problem, but then you will have to get it retempered. A cheap and dirty way of making them is to make a form out of hard oak wood and pound it out with a ball-peen hammer into the form. Start from the middle and work outwards. You may have to anneal the metal as you go if you workharden it too much. Make sure you polish the end of the hammer so it will not leave marks in the aluminum. John |
How to make "divot" in 1/4" aluminum plate
I would try the following idea first: since you have a hole in the
centre of the divot why not use this with a suitable fine pitch HT screw to draw the two pieces of the die together? It certainly worked or me but that was in a little thinner material and not threadplate. You could always heat the area first (hot enough to blacken a piece of pine wood when touched to the area) and then quickly draw the die together. The heated alumunium deforms easily. You'd have to practise that on an offcut first to see if the overall flatness gets distorted by the process. Klaus |
How to make "divot" in 1/4" aluminum plate
Thank you for all the replies. It sounds like a die with draw plate
and a 100 ton punch press would be the way to get "factory type" results. I also gather that die design is not a trivial matter. I did notice that the tread pattern on the store-bought hatches is not the same as the material I normally associate with diamond tread. It could be that they stamp the tread and divots in one operation as Robin suggested. I also did not think about the final shape of the hatch changing shape after divoting (makes sense) The pound it into an oak form is right up my alley. I will have to give it a try. Maybe I can latch this hatch down in some other fashion. As it type this i am thinking something involving a flathead fastener in a countersink. Any alternative latching ideas would also be gratefully accepted. If all else fails, I could use plywood and epoxy for the hatch. (sheepishly admitting that I am more comfortable with this medium anyway) Thank you all again Andy |
How to make "divot" in 1/4" aluminum plate
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How to make "divot" in 1/4" aluminum plate
If it is the polished diamond plate it is probably a 3000 series
aluminum and can be bent and formed fairly easily. If it is the dull mill finish it is 6061 and does not take bending or forming without annealing first. john wrote: 6061 t6 will most likely crack before you complete the forming. If you anneal it it will eliminate the problem, but then you will have to get it retempered. A cheap and dirty way of making them is to make a form out of hard oak wood and pound it out with a ball-peen hammer into the form. Start from the middle and work outwards. You may have to anneal the metal as you go if you workharden it too much. Make sure you polish the end of the hammer so it will not leave marks in the aluminum. John |
How to make "divot" in 1/4" aluminum plate
On 15 Mar 2006 05:31:10 -0800, "andy"
wrote: Thank you for all the replies. It sounds like a die with draw plate and a 100 ton punch press would be the way to get "factory type" results. I also gather that die design is not a trivial matter. I did notice that the tread pattern on the store-bought hatches is not the same as the material I normally associate with diamond tread. It could be that they stamp the tread and divots in one operation as Robin suggested. I also did not think about the final shape of the hatch changing shape after divoting (makes sense) The pound it into an oak form is right up my alley. I will have to give it a try. Maybe I can latch this hatch down in some other fashion. As it type this i am thinking something involving a flathead fastener in a countersink. Any alternative latching ideas would also be gratefully accepted. If all else fails, I could use plywood and epoxy for the hatch. (sheepishly admitting that I am more comfortable with this medium anyway) Thank you all again Andy Drill holes, chamfer them, weld cover plates on the back. |
How to make "divot" in 1/4" aluminum plate
You form a pocket in the wood and then start from the center of the
metal and work outwards until the aluminum forms itself into the pocket in the wood. John RoyJ wrote: He only wants to go down 3/16" of an inch on a 3" diameter divot. I was figuring that as a 3/16" offset over an inch or so span. Total bend of 20 degrees with 1/2" inside radius. I agree that the beat it down with a wood block has possibilites, even if it is just for a quick sample. Making up the stock is probably a foregone conclusion though. john wrote: RoyJ wrote: I can't say I've done that one but the principle is pretty easy: just use a suitable male and female die. Tonnage will vary with the exact shape of the angles and clearances you put in there. Large clearances will reduce the tonnage but make it more difficult to get the clean lines you would like. A quick calc for 6061-T6 says that it should be easy with a 50 ton shop press, suspect less would work http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=46768 Die design is a bit tricky. You need to have a retainer ring to hold the plate flat while you extrude though the center of the ring. If you don't hold it flat the plate will 'pucker' andy wrote: Hello folks. I am writing to get some suggestions for making an aluminum deck hatch for a boat. These hatches are mounted flush with the floor (deck) of a boat and are watertight. I am just in the thinking it out stage, but would appretiate any input the group may have. The product I am trying to duplicate is: http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse.cfm/4,224.htm It is basically a piece of 1/4" diamond tread aluminum plate. This plate has a series of "dogs" or latches which secure the hatch into a stainless steel frame. the dogs are pieces of stainless flat stock attached to a nut which is operated from above the hatch with a socket. each dog has a corresponding divot in the hatch which serves to recess the operating nut flush with the top of the hatch. The divots are approximately 3" in diameter and 3/16" deep. My question is this: is it possible to make these divots using a hydraulic press (the sort with the hydraulic jack) and some dies? or does this type of forming require a punch-press type of sudden impact to get the desired results? I have acess to a lathe to make the dies. I would like to produce say 8 hatches with 4 divots each. any suggestions would be appretiated (including "go buy them you cheap p.....") Andy Hall Lynn, MA 6061 t6 will most likely crack before you complete the forming. If you anneal it it will eliminate the problem, but then you will have to get it retempered. A cheap and dirty way of making them is to make a form out of hard oak wood and pound it out with a ball-peen hammer into the form. Start from the middle and work outwards. You may have to anneal the metal as you go if you workharden it too much. Make sure you polish the end of the hammer so it will not leave marks in the aluminum. John |
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