I volunteer at the local science
museum,rebuilding old machinery. Mostly steam and
early diesel tractors and road rollers. We have a
pretty good shop with a selection older, but good
solid machine tools. Among them is a Cincinnati
horizontal mill No.2 M1 ( serial F5409-6) made in
1946. Another of the volunteers(No , it really
Wasn't me) pulled the gearbox selector assembly
off the side of it as the machine appeared to be
seized. It appears that it somehow selected two
different gear ratios at once. It appears also,
that the gear selection is done hydraulically by
pistons which push selector arms in response to
the position of a multi-port valve .The question
is -how do you get the selector arms in the
correct position to re-assemble it. We will
probably have to replace the "o" rings on the
pistons as that is possibly why it selected two
gears at once.
Does anyone have any experience with this or a
similar machine? Am I looking in the correct areas
and are my suppositions reasonable?

We spent 2 hours today (and a fair amount of bad
language) trying to get those selectors in the
right positions to re-assemble it.


Tom Miller

"Tom Miller" wrote in message
...
I volunteer at the local science
museum,rebuilding old machinery. Mostly steam and
early diesel tractors and road rollers. We have a
pretty good shop with a selection older, but good
solid machine tools. Among them is a Cincinnati
horizontal mill No.2 M1 ( serial F5409-6) made in
1946. Another of the volunteers(No , it really
Wasn't me) pulled the gearbox selector assembly
off the side of it as the machine appeared to be
seized. It appears that it somehow selected two
different gear ratios at once. It appears also,
that the gear selection is done hydraulically by
pistons which push selector arms in response to
the position of a multi-port valve .The question
is -how do you get the selector arms in the
correct position to re-assemble it. We will
probably have to replace the "o" rings on the
pistons as that is possibly why it selected two
gears at once.
Does anyone have any experience with this or a
similar machine? Am I looking in the correct areas
and are my suppositions reasonable?

We spent 2 hours today (and a fair amount of bad
language) trying to get those selectors in the
right positions to re-assemble it.


Tom Miller

I'm no help with your problem, Tom, but I thought I might relate a similar
incidence, one with serious consequences.

Years ago, when I was in training, the company had a #4 vertical Cincinnati
mill that, likewise, shifted hydraulically. On several occasions, the head
would go from one high to low range. but not when selected. Serious gear
damage resulted until our main machine tool repair man found the problem,
which I don't recall.

Good luck with your repair. Sure must be frustrating.

Harold

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote
in message ...

"Tom Miller" wrote in
message
...
I volunteer at the local science
museum,rebuilding old machinery. Mostly steam
and
early diesel tractors and road rollers. We have
a
pretty good shop with a selection older, but
good
solid machine tools. Among them is a Cincinnati
horizontal mill No.2 M1 ( serial F5409-6) made
in
1946. Another of the volunteers(No , it really
Wasn't me) pulled the gearbox selector assembly
off the side of it as the machine appeared to
be
seized. It appears that it somehow selected two
different gear ratios at once. It appears also,
that the gear selection is done hydraulically
by
pistons which push selector arms in response to
the position of a multi-port valve .The
question
is -how do you get the selector arms in the
correct position to re-assemble it. We will
probably have to replace the "o" rings on the
pistons as that is possibly why it selected two
gears at once.
Does anyone have any experience with this or a
similar machine? Am I looking in the correct
areas
and are my suppositions reasonable?

We spent 2 hours today (and a fair amount of
bad
language) trying to get those selectors in the
right positions to re-assemble it.


Tom Miller

I'm no help with your problem, Tom, but I
thought I might relate a similar
incidence, one with serious consequences.

Years ago, when I was in training, the company
had a #4 vertical Cincinnati
mill that, likewise, shifted hydraulically. On
several occasions, the head
would go from one high to low range. but not
when selected. Serious gear
damage resulted until our main machine tool
repair man found the problem,
which I don't recall.

Good luck with your repair. Sure must be
frustrating.

Harold



Thanks for the encouragement Harold. I'm pretty
sure that's why it jammed up, but I'm damned if I
can figure out how to get it all back together.
Maybe a nights sleep and it will all make sense.

Tom

"Tom Miller" wrote in message
...
I volunteer at the local science museum,rebuilding old machinery. Mostly
steam and early diesel tractors and road rollers. We have a pretty good
shop with a selection older, but good solid machine tools. Among them is a
Cincinnati horizontal mill No.2 M1 ( serial F5409-6) made in 1946. Another
of the volunteers(No , it really Wasn't me) pulled the gearbox selector
assembly off the side of it as the machine appeared to be seized. It
appears that it somehow selected two different gear ratios at once. It
appears also, that the gear selection is done hydraulically by pistons
which push selector arms in response to

Hmmmm... I seldom use my Cincy#2 in the horizontal mode, (got a BP 'M' head
on it) but my sump is dry, and it still shifts fine... so this confuses me.
I think I'll pull mine apart (after some _serious_ research) and see what's
actually going on in there.

LLoyd

Tom,

Thanks for the encouragement Harold. I'm pretty
sure that's why it jammed up, but I'm damned if I
can figure out how to get it all back together.
Maybe a nights sleep and it will all make sense.

Absent better info, it sounds like a job for a custom tool. It might be
as simple as a spanner or two, or perhaps a plate with some screw jacks
and access windows. Keep in mind that if large forces are keeping you
from assembling it, any slips/failure of tools could be _very_ dangerous.

One nutty thought: if the forces are hydraulic, drain the system??? But
you would have done or thought of that. Have you found a way to bleed it?

Good luck!

Bill

Tom Miller wrote:
I volunteer at the local science
museum,rebuilding old machinery. Mostly steam and
early diesel tractors and road rollers. We have a
pretty good shop with a selection older, but good
solid machine tools. Among them is a Cincinnati
horizontal mill No.2 M1 ( serial F5409-6) made in
1946. Another of the volunteers(No , it really
Wasn't me) pulled the gearbox selector assembly
off the side of it as the machine appeared to be
seized. It appears that it somehow selected two
different gear ratios at once. It appears also,
that the gear selection is done hydraulically by
pistons which push selector arms in response to
the position of a multi-port valve .The question
is -how do you get the selector arms in the
correct position to re-assemble it. We will
probably have to replace the "o" rings on the
pistons as that is possibly why it selected two
gears at once.
Does anyone have any experience with this or a
similar machine? Am I looking in the correct areas
and are my suppositions reasonable?

We spent 2 hours today (and a fair amount of bad
language) trying to get those selectors in the
right positions to re-assemble it.


Tom Miller

Do you have any schematics, either hydraulic or mechanical, for this
machine?

dennis
in nca

Where is your museum?
"Tom Miller" wrote in message
...
I volunteer at the local science museum,rebuilding old machinery. Mostly
steam and early diesel tractors and road rollers. We have a pretty good
shop with a selection older, but good solid machine tools. Among them is a
Cincinnati horizontal mill No.2 M1 ( serial F5409-6) made in 1946. Another
of the volunteers(No , it really Wasn't me) pulled the gearbox selector
assembly off the side of it as the machine appeared to be seized. It
appears that it somehow selected two different gear ratios at once. It
appears also, that the gear selection is done hydraulically by pistons
which push selector arms in response to the position of a multi-port valve
.The question is -how do you get the selector arms in the correct position
to re-assemble it. We will probably have to replace the "o" rings on the
pistons as that is possibly why it selected two gears at once.
Does anyone have any experience with this or a similar machine? Am I
looking in the correct areas and are my suppositions reasonable?

We spent 2 hours today (and a fair amount of bad language) trying to get
those selectors in the right positions to re-assemble it.


Tom Miller

Tom Miller wrote:

I volunteer at the local science
museum,rebuilding old machinery. Mostly steam and
early diesel tractors and road rollers. We have a
pretty good shop with a selection older, but good
solid machine tools. Among them is a Cincinnati
horizontal mill No.2 M1 ( serial F5409-6) made in
1946. Another of the volunteers(No , it really
Wasn't me) pulled the gearbox selector assembly
off the side of it as the machine appeared to be
seized. It appears that it somehow selected two
different gear ratios at once. It appears also,
that the gear selection is done hydraulically by
pistons which push selector arms in response to
the position of a multi-port valve .The question
is -how do you get the selector arms in the
correct position to re-assemble it. We will
probably have to replace the "o" rings on the
pistons as that is possibly why it selected two
gears at once.
Does anyone have any experience with this or a
similar machine? Am I looking in the correct areas
and are my suppositions reasonable?

We spent 2 hours today (and a fair amount of bad
language) trying to get those selectors in the
right positions to re-assemble it.

Tom Miller




Ive repaired quite a few of them so maybe I can be of some help. To
line up the shifters you should pull off the outside and inside plate on
the opposide side of the mill. This will gain you access to the inside
of the machine so you can make sure all three of the shifter yokes are
in the proper place. You have to set them up in the apporximate
position and guide them in as you put the shifter housing in place. Make
sure you get the little O rings in place at the bottom of the shifter
housing.


The first thing to do is to check the hydraulic pressure on the shifter
system. There is a port on same side as the hudraulic shifter unit that
allows you to measure pressure. I leave a gauge right in the port so you
can keep an eye on it on a continuing basis. I think the pressure
settin should be about 300 lbs/ inch. The pressure adjustment is in the
back over to the left of the main drive pulley. It should have a plate
on it marking it as such.

I would suggest you should get a maintance manual of your particular
machine. The information above is from my experience working on #4's
and bigger, but they are all basicly the same.

When shifting gears, there is a lot going on inside of that machine.
Make sure that the motor is turning the right way. There is an arrow on
the main drive pulley that indicates the proper rotation. If you have
proper rotation you will have hydraulic pressure. The gear pump is
driven off the input power shaft before the clutch. One big problem is
the pickup oil screen. After years of use it will get gummed up and
will cause the oil pressure to drop.

You can check that the shifte forks are free. They should move easily
with a little hand pressure. Watch out for the residual oil that will
be pushed out of the input ports.

Watch out, cinci uses double set screws in many places. You have to
measure the depths to make sure you got both of them out if you are
removing a part.



John

"Bill Schwab" wrote in
message
ink.net...
Tom,

Thanks for the encouragement Harold. I'm
pretty sure that's why it jammed up, but I'm
damned if I can figure out how to get it all
back together. Maybe a nights sleep and it will
all make sense.

Absent better info, it sounds like a job for a
custom tool. It might be as simple as a spanner
or two, or perhaps a plate with some screw jacks
and access windows. Keep in mind that if large
forces are keeping you from assembling it, any
slips/failure of tools could be _very_
dangerous.

One nutty thought: if the forces are hydraulic,
drain the system??? But you would have done or
thought of that. Have you found a way to bleed
it?

Good luck!

Bill

Thanks Bill
The system is fairly easily drained as there are
"nut& olive" connections on the lines. just
slacke'm off and watch the oil go into the top of
your boot. The biggest problem is getting
everything lined up. The bottom selector lever
tends to hang down but. a loop of fishing line
under it and up to the inspection plug fixes that
one.
I'm going back out there Friday so I'll let you
know how we went.
Tom

"rigger" wrote in message
oups.com...

Tom Miller wrote:
I volunteer at the local science
museum,rebuilding old machinery. Mostly steam
and
early diesel tractors and road rollers. We have
a
pretty good shop with a selection older, but
good
solid machine tools. Among them is a Cincinnati
horizontal mill No.2 M1 ( serial F5409-6) made
in
1946. Another of the volunteers(No , it really
Wasn't me) pulled the gearbox selector assembly
off the side of it as the machine appeared to
be
seized. It appears that it somehow selected two
different gear ratios at once. It appears also,
that the gear selection is done hydraulically
by
pistons which push selector arms in response to
the position of a multi-port valve .The
question
is -how do you get the selector arms in the
correct position to re-assemble it. We will
probably have to replace the "o" rings on the
pistons as that is possibly why it selected two
gears at once.
Does anyone have any experience with this or a
similar machine? Am I looking in the correct
areas
and are my suppositions reasonable?

We spent 2 hours today (and a fair amount of
bad
language) trying to get those selectors in the
right positions to re-assemble it.


Tom Miller

Do you have any schematics, either hydraulic or
mechanical, for this
machine?

dennis
in nca


Not a sausage.

Scienceworks is the science branch of Museums
Victoria located in Melbourne Australia (Where it
was 109 degrees Fahrenheit last week and is 65
degrees today)


Here's a link to our page

Tom
"wayne mak" wrote
in message ...
Where is your museum?
"Tom Miller" wrote in
message ...
I volunteer at the local science
museum,rebuilding old machinery. Mostly steam
and early diesel tractors and road rollers. We
have a pretty good shop with a selection older,
but good solid machine tools. Among them is a
Cincinnati horizontal mill No.2 M1 ( serial
F5409-6) made in 1946. Another of the
volunteers(No , it really Wasn't me) pulled the
gearbox selector assembly off the side of it as
the machine appeared to be seized. It appears
that it somehow selected two different gear
ratios at once. It appears also, that the gear
selection is done hydraulically by pistons
which push selector arms in response to the
position of a multi-port valve .The question
is -how do you get the selector arms in the
correct position to re-assemble it. We will
probably have to replace the "o" rings on the
pistons as that is possibly why it selected two
gears at once.
Does anyone have any experience with this or a
similar machine? Am I looking in the correct
areas and are my suppositions reasonable?

We spent 2 hours today (and a fair amount of
bad language) trying to get those selectors in
the right positions to re-assemble it.


Tom Miller

Thanks John! That sounds like the sort of info
we needed. . we'll give it a whirl on Friday and
see what happens..
Much appreciated



Tom Miller
"John" wrote in message
...
Tom Miller wrote:

I volunteer at the local science
museum,rebuilding old machinery. Mostly steam
and
early diesel tractors and road rollers. We have
a
pretty good shop with a selection older, but
good
solid machine tools. Among them is a Cincinnati
horizontal mill No.2 M1 ( serial F5409-6) made
in
1946. Another of the volunteers(No , it really
Wasn't me) pulled the gearbox selector assembly
off the side of it as the machine appeared to
be
seized. It appears that it somehow selected two
different gear ratios at once. It appears also,
that the gear selection is done hydraulically
by
pistons which push selector arms in response to
the position of a multi-port valve .The
question
is -how do you get the selector arms in the
correct position to re-assemble it. We will
probably have to replace the "o" rings on the
pistons as that is possibly why it selected two
gears at once.
Does anyone have any experience with this or a
similar machine? Am I looking in the correct
areas
and are my suppositions reasonable?

We spent 2 hours today (and a fair amount of
bad
language) trying to get those selectors in the
right positions to re-assemble it.

Tom Miller




Ive repaired quite a few of them so maybe I can
be of some help. To
line up the shifters you should pull off the
outside and inside plate on
the opposide side of the mill. This will gain
you access to the inside
of the machine so you can make sure all three of
the shifter yokes are
in the proper place. You have to set them up in
the apporximate
position and guide them in as you put the
shifter housing in place. Make
sure you get the little O rings in place at the
bottom of the shifter
housing.


The first thing to do is to check the hydraulic
pressure on the shifter
system. There is a port on same side as the
hudraulic shifter unit that
allows you to measure pressure. I leave a gauge
right in the port so you
can keep an eye on it on a continuing basis. I
think the pressure
settin should be about 300 lbs/ inch. The
pressure adjustment is in the
back over to the left of the main drive pulley.
It should have a plate
on it marking it as such.

I would suggest you should get a maintance
manual of your particular
machine. The information above is from my
experience working on #4's
and bigger, but they are all basicly the same.

When shifting gears, there is a lot going on
inside of that machine.
Make sure that the motor is turning the right
way. There is an arrow on
the main drive pulley that indicates the proper
rotation. If you have
proper rotation you will have hydraulic
pressure. The gear pump is
driven off the input power shaft before the
clutch. One big problem is
the pickup oil screen. After years of use it
will get gummed up and
will cause the oil pressure to drop.

You can check that the shifte forks are free.
They should move easily
with a little hand pressure. Watch out for the
residual oil that will
be pushed out of the input ports.

Watch out, cinci uses double set screws in many
places. You have to
measure the depths to make sure you got both of
them out if you are
removing a part.



John

Oops! Missed the link

http://scienceworks.museum.vic.gov.au/
Tom


"Tom Miller" wrote in
message ...

Scienceworks is the science branch of Museums
Victoria located in Melbourne Australia (Where
it was 109 degrees Fahrenheit last week and is
65 degrees today)


Here's a link to our page

Tom
"wayne mak"
wrote in message
...
Where is your museum?
"Tom Miller" wrote in
message ...
I volunteer at the local science
museum,rebuilding old machinery. Mostly steam
and early diesel tractors and road rollers. We
have a pretty good shop with a selection
older, but good solid machine tools. Among
them is a Cincinnati horizontal mill No.2 M1
( serial F5409-6) made in 1946. Another of the
volunteers(No , it really Wasn't me) pulled
the gearbox selector assembly off the side of
it as the machine appeared to be seized. It
appears that it somehow selected two different
gear ratios at once. It appears also, that the
gear selection is done hydraulically by
pistons which push selector arms in response
to the position of a multi-port valve .The
question is -how do you get the selector arms
in the correct position to re-assemble it. We
will probably have to replace the "o" rings on
the pistons as that is possibly why it
selected two gears at once.
Does anyone have any experience with this or a
similar machine? Am I looking in the correct
areas and are my suppositions reasonable?

We spent 2 hours today (and a fair amount of
bad language) trying to get those selectors in
the right positions to re-assemble it.


Tom Miller

Tom,

The system is fairly easily drained as there are
"nut& olive" connections on the lines. just
slacke'm off and watch the oil go into the top of
your boot. The biggest problem is getting
everything lined up. The bottom selector lever
tends to hang down but. a loop of fishing line
under it and up to the inspection plug fixes that
one.

What would happen if the line broke? If it could be violent, make sure
you won't get pinched/smashed. Is there room for a machinist's jack?


I'm going back out there Friday so I'll let you
know how we went.

Please do. In fact, some pictures on a web site would be a great fix
for us

Good luck!

Bill

I thought I'd give you a final update on the
Cincinnati Mill story. Further investigation has
discovered a collapsed bearing and damaged gears.
It was decided that, after a short ,but moving
ceremony it would be delivered in the final care
of a scrap merchant. R.I.P

Tom Miller



"Tom Miller" wrote in
message ...
I volunteer at the local science
museum,rebuilding old machinery. Mostly steam
and early diesel tractors and road rollers. We
have a pretty good shop with a selection older,
but good solid machine tools. Among them is a
Cincinnati horizontal mill No.2 M1 ( serial
F5409-6) made in 1946. Another of the
volunteers(No , it really Wasn't me) pulled the
gearbox selector assembly off the side of it as
the machine appeared to be seized. It appears
that it somehow selected two different gear
ratios at once. It appears also, that the gear
selection is done hydraulically by pistons which
push selector arms in response to the position
of a multi-port valve .The question is -how do
you get the selector arms in the correct
position to re-assemble it. We will probably
have to replace the "o" rings on the pistons as
that is possibly why it selected two gears at
once.
Does anyone have any experience with this or a
similar machine? Am I looking in the correct
areas and are my suppositions reasonable?

We spent 2 hours today (and a fair amount of bad
language) trying to get those selectors in the
right positions to re-assemble it.


Tom Miller

On Thu, 2 Feb 2006 09:13:33 +1100, "Tom Miller"
wrote:

I thought I'd give you a final update on the
Cincinnati Mill story. Further investigation has
discovered a collapsed bearing and damaged gears.
It was decided that, after a short ,but moving
ceremony it would be delivered in the final care
of a scrap merchant. R.I.P

Tom Miller


What you really want anyways, is a nice Kearny & Trecker/Milwaukee #2
miller. They are nearly bullet proof. If you find one however..remove
the ventilation cover high on the right side (facing the table) and
with the motor running look inside with a flashlight and make sure the
lube pump is spritzing all the gears and such. The resevor is on the
back side of the miller with a giant sized Flip Top to fill it with
and a sight glass. About the only thing that seems to go wrong with
them is the oil pump breaking (gear pump) and even then...you can put
a powered oil pump on the machine somewhere and keep her going and
going and going and going.....

Gunner



"Tom Miller" wrote in
message ...
I volunteer at the local science
museum,rebuilding old machinery. Mostly steam
and early diesel tractors and road rollers. We
have a pretty good shop with a selection older,
but good solid machine tools. Among them is a
Cincinnati horizontal mill No.2 M1 ( serial
F5409-6) made in 1946. Another of the
volunteers(No , it really Wasn't me) pulled the
gearbox selector assembly off the side of it as
the machine appeared to be seized. It appears
that it somehow selected two different gear
ratios at once. It appears also, that the gear
selection is done hydraulically by pistons which
push selector arms in response to the position
of a multi-port valve .The question is -how do
you get the selector arms in the correct
position to re-assemble it. We will probably
have to replace the "o" rings on the pistons as
that is possibly why it selected two gears at
once.
Does anyone have any experience with this or a
similar machine? Am I looking in the correct
areas and are my suppositions reasonable?

We spent 2 hours today (and a fair amount of bad
language) trying to get those selectors in the
right positions to re-assemble it.


Tom Miller





"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
snip----

What you really want anyways, is a nice Kearny & Trecker/Milwaukee #2
miller. They are nearly bullet proof.

Absolutely! I've run several. They stand alone where serious mills are
concerned.

Harold

OK I'll see what I can do.

Tom
"Bill Schwab" wrote in
message
ink.net...
Tom,

The system is fairly easily drained as there
are "nut& olive" connections on the lines. just
slacke'm off and watch the oil go into the top
of your boot. The biggest problem is getting
everything lined up. The bottom selector lever
tends to hang down but. a loop of fishing line
under it and up to the inspection plug fixes
that one.

What would happen if the line broke? If it
could be violent, make sure you won't get
pinched/smashed. Is there room for a
machinist's jack?


I'm going back out there Friday so I'll let you
know how we went.

Please do. In fact, some pictures on a web site
would be a great fix for us

Good luck!

Bill

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 2 Feb 2006 09:13:33 +1100, "Tom Miller"
wrote:

I thought I'd give you a final update on the
Cincinnati Mill story. Further investigation has
discovered a collapsed bearing and damaged
gears.
It was decided that, after a short ,but moving
ceremony it would be delivered in the final care
of a scrap merchant. R.I.P

Tom Miller


What you really want anyways, is a nice Kearny &
Trecker/Milwaukee #2
miller. They are nearly bullet proof. If you
find one however..remove
the ventilation cover high on the right side
(facing the table) and
with the motor running look inside with a
flashlight and make sure the
lube pump is spritzing all the gears and such.
The resevor is on the
back side of the miller with a giant sized Flip
Top to fill it with
and a sight glass. About the only thing that
seems to go wrong with
them is the oil pump breaking (gear pump) and
even then...you can put
a powered oil pump on the machine somewhere and
keep her going and
going and going and going.....

Gunner



"Tom Miller" wrote in
message ...
I volunteer at the local science
museum,rebuilding old machinery. Mostly steam
and early diesel tractors and road rollers. We
have a pretty good shop with a selection
older,
but good solid machine tools. Among them is a
Cincinnati horizontal mill No.2 M1 ( serial
F5409-6) made in 1946. Another of the
volunteers(No , it really Wasn't me) pulled
the
gearbox selector assembly off the side of it
as
the machine appeared to be seized. It appears
that it somehow selected two different gear
ratios at once. It appears also, that the gear
selection is done hydraulically by pistons
which
push selector arms in response to the position
of a multi-port valve .The question is -how do
you get the selector arms in the correct
position to re-assemble it. We will probably
have to replace the "o" rings on the pistons
as
that is possibly why it selected two gears at
once.
Does anyone have any experience with this or a
similar machine? Am I looking in the correct
areas and are my suppositions reasonable?

We spent 2 hours today (and a fair amount of
bad
language) trying to get those selectors in the
right positions to re-assemble it.


Tom Miller


Fist we've got to find the money, then the
machine..

BTW The trick of replacing the oil pump with an
external electrically driven one, is a good one.
I've done it one Stahl refrigeration screw
compressors with good results. Early Stahl units
required that the oil pump bearings be changed
every 2000 hours. (and baby, you'd better do it!)
The rest of the thing was immune to everything but
lightning strike. Replaced the internal pump with
a blank plate,and an external Roper gear pump.
Basically you blessed it once a year and that was
it for maintenance!

Tom

On Thu, 2 Feb 2006 17:27:47 +1100, "Tom Miller"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 2 Feb 2006 09:13:33 +1100, "Tom Miller"
wrote:

I thought I'd give you a final update on the
Cincinnati Mill story. Further investigation has
discovered a collapsed bearing and damaged
gears.
It was decided that, after a short ,but moving
ceremony it would be delivered in the final care
of a scrap merchant. R.I.P

Tom Miller


What you really want anyways, is a nice Kearny &
Trecker/Milwaukee #2
miller. They are nearly bullet proof. If you
find one however..remove
the ventilation cover high on the right side
(facing the table) and
with the motor running look inside with a
flashlight and make sure the
lube pump is spritzing all the gears and such.
The resevor is on the
back side of the miller with a giant sized Flip
Top to fill it with
and a sight glass. About the only thing that
seems to go wrong with
them is the oil pump breaking (gear pump) and
even then...you can put
a powered oil pump on the machine somewhere and
keep her going and
going and going and going.....

Gunner



"Tom Miller" wrote in
message ...
I volunteer at the local science
museum,rebuilding old machinery. Mostly steam
and early diesel tractors and road rollers. We
have a pretty good shop with a selection
older,
but good solid machine tools. Among them is a
Cincinnati horizontal mill No.2 M1 ( serial
F5409-6) made in 1946. Another of the
volunteers(No , it really Wasn't me) pulled
the
gearbox selector assembly off the side of it
as
the machine appeared to be seized. It appears
that it somehow selected two different gear
ratios at once. It appears also, that the gear
selection is done hydraulically by pistons
which
push selector arms in response to the position
of a multi-port valve .The question is -how do
you get the selector arms in the correct
position to re-assemble it. We will probably
have to replace the "o" rings on the pistons
as
that is possibly why it selected two gears at
once.
Does anyone have any experience with this or a
similar machine? Am I looking in the correct
areas and are my suppositions reasonable?

We spent 2 hours today (and a fair amount of
bad
language) trying to get those selectors in the
right positions to re-assemble it.


Tom Miller


Fist we've got to find the money, then the
machine..

BTW The trick of replacing the oil pump with an
external electrically driven one, is a good one.
I've done it one Stahl refrigeration screw
compressors with good results. Early Stahl units
required that the oil pump bearings be changed
every 2000 hours. (and baby, you'd better do it!)
The rest of the thing was immune to everything but
lightning strike. Replaced the internal pump with
a blank plate,and an external Roper gear pump.
Basically you blessed it once a year and that was
it for maintenance!

Tom

here in the States..a K&T #2 can be had for $500-1000, usually with
tooling. Ive bought and sold some for customers for $350

Gunner



"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3

You won't find them at that price in Aus.

Tom
"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 2 Feb 2006 17:27:47 +1100, "Tom Miller"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in
message
. ..
On Thu, 2 Feb 2006 09:13:33 +1100, "Tom
Miller"
wrote:

I thought I'd give you a final update on the
Cincinnati Mill story. Further investigation
has
discovered a collapsed bearing and damaged
gears.
It was decided that, after a short ,but moving
ceremony it would be delivered in the final
care
of a scrap merchant. R.I.P

Tom Miller


What you really want anyways, is a nice Kearny
&
Trecker/Milwaukee #2
miller. They are nearly bullet proof. If you
find one however..remove
the ventilation cover high on the right side
(facing the table) and
with the motor running look inside with a
flashlight and make sure the
lube pump is spritzing all the gears and such.
The resevor is on the
back side of the miller with a giant sized
Flip
Top to fill it with
and a sight glass. About the only thing that
seems to go wrong with
them is the oil pump breaking (gear pump) and
even then...you can put
a powered oil pump on the machine somewhere
and
keep her going and
going and going and going.....

Gunner



"Tom Miller" wrote in
message ...
I volunteer at the local science
museum,rebuilding old machinery. Mostly
steam
and early diesel tractors and road rollers.
We
have a pretty good shop with a selection
older,
but good solid machine tools. Among them is
a
Cincinnati horizontal mill No.2 M1 ( serial
F5409-6) made in 1946. Another of the
volunteers(No , it really Wasn't me) pulled
the
gearbox selector assembly off the side of it
as
the machine appeared to be seized. It
appears
that it somehow selected two different gear
ratios at once. It appears also, that the
gear
selection is done hydraulically by pistons
which
push selector arms in response to the
position
of a multi-port valve .The question is -how
do
you get the selector arms in the correct
position to re-assemble it. We will probably
have to replace the "o" rings on the pistons
as
that is possibly why it selected two gears
at
once.
Does anyone have any experience with this or
a
similar machine? Am I looking in the correct
areas and are my suppositions reasonable?

We spent 2 hours today (and a fair amount of
bad
language) trying to get those selectors in
the
right positions to re-assemble it.


Tom Miller


Fist we've got to find the money, then the
machine..

BTW The trick of replacing the oil pump with an
external electrically driven one, is a good one.
I've done it one Stahl refrigeration screw
compressors with good results. Early Stahl units
required that the oil pump bearings be changed
every 2000 hours. (and baby, you'd better do
it!)
The rest of the thing was immune to everything
but
lightning strike. Replaced the internal pump
with
a blank plate,and an external Roper gear pump.
Basically you blessed it once a year and that
was
it for maintenance!

Tom

here in the States..a K&T #2 can be had for
$500-1000, usually with
tooling. Ive bought and sold some for
customers for $350

Gunner



"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead
and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the
consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3

"Tom Miller" wrote in
message ...
I volunteer at the local science
museum,rebuilding old machinery. Mostly steam
and early diesel tractors and road rollers. We
have a pretty good shop with a selection older,
but good solid machine tools. Among them is a
Cincinnati horizontal mill No.2 M1 ( serial
F5409-6) made in 1946. Another of the
volunteers(No , it really Wasn't me) pulled the
gearbox selector assembly off the side of it as
the machine appeared to be seized. It appears
that it somehow selected two different gear
ratios at once. It appears also, that the gear
selection is done hydraulically by pistons which
push selector arms in response to the position
of a multi-port valve .The question is -how do
you get the selector arms in the correct
position to re-assemble it. We will probably
have to replace the "o" rings on the pistons as
that is possibly why it selected two gears at
once.
Does anyone have any experience with this or a
similar machine? Am I looking in the correct
areas and are my suppositions reasonable?

We spent 2 hours today (and a fair amount of bad
language) trying to get those selectors in the
right positions to re-assemble it.


Tom Miller

Further to the saga of the horizontal milling
machine, we today decided to give it the Lazarus
treatment. We pulled the gearbox out of it and
immediately found the real cause of the problem.
The countershaft nut had backed off and allowed
excessive!! clearance in the bearings. we
tightened it up, decided we could live with the
wear in the gears and will re-assemble it next
week. Someone asked about photo's so I've put thee
in the dropbox.

Regards

Tom Miller

"Tom Miller" wrote in
message ...
I volunteer at the local science
museum,rebuilding old machinery. Mostly steam
and early diesel tractors and road rollers. We
have a pretty good shop with a selection older,
but good solid machine tools. Among them is a
Cincinnati horizontal mill No.2 M1 ( serial
F5409-6) made in 1946. Another of the
volunteers(No , it really Wasn't me) pulled the
gearbox selector assembly off the side of it as
the machine appeared to be seized. It appears
that it somehow selected two different gear
ratios at once. It appears also, that the gear
selection is done hydraulically by pistons which
push selector arms in response to the position
of a multi-port valve .The question is -how do
you get the selector arms in the correct
position to re-assemble it. We will probably
have to replace the "o" rings on the pistons as
that is possibly why it selected two gears at
once.
Does anyone have any experience with this or a
similar machine? Am I looking in the correct
areas and are my suppositions reasonable?

We spent 2 hours today (and a fair amount of bad
language) trying to get those selectors in the
right positions to re-assemble it.


Tom Miller


Last word on the Cincinnati Mill.

We re-assembled it after cleaning out the oil
sump and filters. . A test run was successful and
it is back to work for it..

Thanks to all for your suggestions and
encouragement.

Tom Miller