If you look at the information for the parent company of newsday.com, which
can be found here; http://www.tribune.com/about/timeline.html, you can see
that the markets served by this company are traditional holdouts of radical
"thought."



Polls taken at 2:00pm, from households in these areas, while most of
productive America is at work, are hardly indicative of what Americans as a
whole think. You have forgotten what this map
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politic.../countymap.htm
represents.



The media was consistently brutal to Bush and Republicans leading up to the
2004 election, and momentarily brutal to Kerry and the Democrats if
non-liberal sources forced the issues, and yet with what amounts to an
anti-Bush/Republican and a pro-Kerry/Democrat push by most media related
outlets in America, Bush/Republicans won. Let's face it, you either have to
be completely brainwashed, completely stupid, or an outright liar not to
acknowledge that most media outlets that the average American has access to
are radically slanted towards the Democrat/liberal agenda.



This time around, these same media outlets have been hard at work pushing
their agenda, but while the attacks against Bush continue, the tone as a
whole has shifted to focus on broad attacks against anything/anyone
Republican centric. I personally think it will be effective. As best I can
tell, the goals of the Democrats have been the hatred of George Bush, the
promotion of "gay values", and elimination of the United States as a
sovereign nation. This is not really an agenda that is going to win over
the majority of the population. It may be a perfect plank for appeal to the
jobless contingent that seems to be the primary respondent in such "polls",
but as the end result in 2004 showed, it is not what most people are looking
for.



The Democrat/Media shift away from these "core values", at least in public
discussion, and with the broadened attacks against the Republicans as a
whole, I think it just might work this time around. I for one would love to
see a poll that was taken at 8:00pm, or from working individuals only. Not
that I don't think that the jobless, homeless, drug-addicts, alcoholics,
homosexuals, people in CA, people in NY, people in IL, and other Democratic
strongholds are any less entitled to their opinion, but it sure would be
nice if the polls that claim to predict American values pulled their
opinions from a broader base.

In article , Jim Newell says...

Let's face it, you either have to
be completely brainwashed, completely stupid, or an outright liar

Poor troll, it barely registered over one on the patented
'troll-O-meter:'

0-2-4-6-8-10
------------
^
|

Better luck next time. Keep watching fox news and you might
eventually see something you like.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"Jim Newell" wrote in message
...
If you look at the information for the parent company of newsday.com,
which
can be found here; http://www.tribune.com/about/timeline.html, you can see
that the markets served by this company are traditional holdouts of
radical
"thought."

The Wall Street Journal, FOX News, and Zogby surveys say the same thing,
Jim. Time to revise your theory, perhaps...

http://www.pollingreport.com/2006.htm#FullTrend

--
Ed Huntress

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , Jim Newell
says...

Let's face it, you either have to
be completely brainwashed, completely stupid, or an outright liar

Poor troll, it barely registered over one on the patented
'troll-O-meter:'

0-2-4-6-8-10
------------
^
|

Better luck next time. Keep watching fox news and you might
eventually see something you like.

I don't think so, Jim. A Fox poll conducted on the same subject as far back
as last August said the same thing: more Americans want Democrats to win the
2006 mid-term elections.

What we have in the preceding messages is one of the most egregious examples
of laziness and stupidity substituting for a little legwork that I've seen
in a while. Everyone except Cliff had it wrong, and they could have saved
themselves the embarrassment of demonstrating the point if they had taken
just five minutes to learn what they were talking about.

Maybe it's time to go back to work. If you wallow in this kind of crap for
too long you can wind up pickled...

--
Ed Huntress

On 8 Jan 2006 09:40:36 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Jim Newell says...

Let's face it, you either have to
be completely brainwashed, completely stupid, or an outright liar

Poor troll, it barely registered over one on the patented
'troll-O-meter:'

0-2-4-6-8-10
------------
^
|

Better luck next time. Keep watching fox news and you might
eventually see something you like.

Jim

Dont pay much attention to Jim..he is paid to be in denial publicly.

The DNC buys him off with tooling. Everyman has a price.....

Gunner

The aim of untold millions is to be free to do exactly as they choose
and for someone else to pay when things go wrong.

In the past few decades, a peculiar and distinctive psychology
has emerged in England. Gone are the civility, sturdy independence,
and admirable stoicism that carried the English through the war years
.. It has been replaced by a constant whine of excuses, complaints,
and special pleading. The collapse of the British character has been
as swift and complete as the collapse of British power.

Theodore Dalrymple,

In article , Gunner says...

The DNC buys him off with tooling.

Well at least we can be sure that abromoff didn't pay me anything.

Every single dollar the man paid out in bribes went to
a republican.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On 8 Jan 2006 13:19:23 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gunner says...

The DNC buys him off with tooling.

Well at least we can be sure that abromoff didn't pay me anything.

Every single dollar the man paid out in bribes went to
a republican.

Jim

Individually. The money he paid to the Dems went to the Dems
organizations. Harry Reid ring any bells? Seems he was one of the
biggest players. Senate Minority leader..isnt he?

Gunner

The aim of untold millions is to be free to do exactly as they choose
and for someone else to pay when things go wrong.

In the past few decades, a peculiar and distinctive psychology
has emerged in England. Gone are the civility, sturdy independence,
and admirable stoicism that carried the English through the war years
.. It has been replaced by a constant whine of excuses, complaints,
and special pleading. The collapse of the British character has been
as swift and complete as the collapse of British power.

Theodore Dalrymple,

Gunner wrote:
On 8 Jan 2006 13:19:23 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gunner
says...

Individually. The money he paid to the Dems went to the Dems
organizations. Harry Reid ring any bells? Seems he was one of the
biggest players. Senate Minority leader..isnt he?


BLITZER: Should Democrats who took money from Jack Abramoff, who's now
pleaded guilty to bribery charges among other charges, a Republican lobbyist
in Washington - should the Democrats who took money from him give that money
to charity or give it back?

DEAN: There are no Democrats who took money from Jack Abramoff. Not one.
Not one single Democrat. Every person named in this scandal is a Republican,
every person under investigation is a Republican, every person indicted is a
Republican. This is a Republican finance scandal. There is no evidence that
Jack Abramoff ever gave any Democrat any money, and we've looked through all
those FEC reports to make sure that's true.

BLITZER: [Stammering] But through various Abramoff-related organizations,
and outfits, a bunch of Democrats did take money that presumably originated
with Jack Abramoff.

DEAN: That's not true either. There's no evidence for that either, there's
no evidence...

BLITZER: What about Senator, what about, what about, what about Senator
Byron Dorgan?

DEAN: Senator Byron Dorgan and some others took money from Indian tribes.
They're not agents of Jack Abramoff. There's no evidence that I've seen that
Jack Abramoff directed any contributions to Democrats. I know the Republican
National Committee would like to get the Democrats involved in this. They're
scared. They should be scared. They haven't told the truth, and they have
misled the American people, and now it appears they're stealing from Indian
tribes. The Democrats are not involved in this.

BLITZER: [Long pause, apparently getting direction in his earpiece] [Sigh]
Unfortunately, we, uh, Mr. Chairman, we've got to leave it right there.


--
John R. Carroll
Machining Solution Software, Inc.
Los Angeles San Francisco
www.machiningsolution.com

In article , Gunner says...

Every single dollar the man paid out in bribes went to
a republican.

Individually. The money he paid to the Dems went to the Dems
organizations. Harry Reid ring any bells? Seems he was one of the
biggest players. Senate Minority leader..isnt he?

He didn't take any money from Abromoff.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

I don't know to be honest with you. Often, it seems that the polls trend in
a certian direction in politics, but the facts do not match expectations of
the poll. One can't help but wonder if there is not some bias at work.

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
news
"Jim Newell" wrote in message
...
If you look at the information for the parent company of newsday.com,
which
can be found here; http://www.tribune.com/about/timeline.html, you can
see
that the markets served by this company are traditional holdouts of
radical
"thought."

The Wall Street Journal, FOX News, and Zogby surveys say the same thing,
Jim. Time to revise your theory, perhaps...

http://www.pollingreport.com/2006.htm#FullTrend

--
Ed Huntress

Jim,

I really can't see how this statement earns me the label of troll.

I am not hostile about the situation with the media. It's like walking down
a dirt road, you are going to have a little dust on your boots when you get
back. It's just a fact of life. The only thing silly, is that we are all
supposed to act like media bias does not exist. That's really kind of
foolish.

If it makes you feel any better, then; Anyone who says Rush is not
radically biased towards the right has to be completely brainwashed,
completely stupid, or an outright liar

There, does that make all better? C'mon! At 40, I am getting a little to
old to mince around and play games. The sun rises in the east, water runs
down hill, and yes, there is a bias in the media that favors a liberal
agenda. Christ!, even the media admits it.

I don't think the troll comment was deserved.

Regards,
Jim




"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , Jim Newell
says...

Let's face it, you either have to
be completely brainwashed, completely stupid, or an outright liar

Poor troll, it barely registered over one on the patented
'troll-O-meter:'

0-2-4-6-8-10
------------
^
|

Better luck next time. Keep watching fox news and you might
eventually see something you like.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"Jim Newell" wrote in message
...
I don't know to be honest with you. Often, it seems that the polls trend
in
a certian direction in politics, but the facts do not match expectations
of
the poll. One can't help but wonder if there is not some bias at work.

Many people think surveys are biased, Jim. The fair response to that would
be the contents of a good program on the methods, uses, and misuses of
surveys. It doesn't fit into an online message.

Maybe I can plant one thought: The big, reputable polling firms, including
Harris, Gallup, Pew, and so on, make most of their livings doing private
research for businesses and other institutions that want the best, most
accurate statistical information they can get. The results of such research
is rarely made public. It isn't for the purpose of propaganda; it's for
making business or policy decisions, privately and quietly.

If one of those research firms got caught playing games with their publicly
available research, they'd be out of business in a heartbeat. Their
integrity, and their scientific skill at running such surveys, are all they
have to sell.

One thing we run into frequently, however, is well-done surveys that ask
inherently biased questions. Don't blame the survey firms for that. They're
contracted to get an answer to *that* question. Any misuse of the results is
the fault of the institution contracting for the survey. If it was a
legitimate polling firm that did the survey (and it usually is), then you
can uncover such biases in a few minutes by tracking down the question(s)
asked. Legit pollsters publish the actual questions and the methodology.
Anybody with a clear head will recognize a question that prompts a specific
answer, or that was misrepresented in the reporting of the results by the
institution that had the survey done.

In this case, if you followed the link I posted to those summaries of over
20 surveys, you'd see that the question was asked similarly in almost every
one: "And if the election for Congress were held today, would you want to
see the Republicans or Democrats win control of Congress?," or something
similar to that.

When you get that many surveys, by many different polling organizations,
under contract to a variety of political interests, asking the same
question, who come up with a consistent qualitative answer...it's time to
pay attention. In fact, if one survey had been done, it would be worth
paying attention. It just would require more work, and more knowledge of
statistics and survey methods, to form a strong opinion.

About your comment regarding the facts matching the polls, they almost
always match the results of the poll. You just have to be careful what
you're reading, and you have to make sure you aren't reading something into
it that isn't there. It's also a good idea not to trust one's memory. We
tend to be a lot more biased in individual memory than in survey statistics.
And watch out for reporters' interpretations of surveys. Most of them
wouldn't know a standard deviation from a confidence interval, and they have
no business expounding upon survey research results.

And remember: Statistics means never having to say you're certain. g

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote

About your comment regarding the facts matching the polls,
they almost always match the results of the poll.


Ed Rollins, Republican operative, famously said:
"Here in America, we hold elections to find out if the polls were right."
Make what you will of that :-)

-- TP

On 8 Jan 2006 16:50:47 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gunner says...

Every single dollar the man paid out in bribes went to
a republican.

Individually. The money he paid to the Dems went to the Dems
organizations. Harry Reid ring any bells? Seems he was one of the
biggest players. Senate Minority leader..isnt he?

He didn't take any money from Abromoff.

Jim

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2...3/115231.shtml

Tuesday, Jan. 3, 2006 11:50 a.m. EST

Harry Reid Caught in Abramoff Plea Deal?

This morning's announcement that Washington super-lobbyist
Jack Abramoff has reached a plea bargain deal with the Justice
Department has reporters salivating over what they hint is going to be
a Republican mega-scandal.

But it turns out that the most prominent player in Abramoff's web of
influence was reportedly none other than the Senate's top Democrat,
Harry Reid.

In a little-noticed story in November, The Associated Press revealed
that Reid had accepted tens of thousands of dollars from an Abramoff
client, the Coushatta Indian tribe, after interceding with Secretary
of the Interior Gail Norton over a casino dispute with a rival tribe.

Reid "sent a letter to Norton on March 5, 2002," reported the AP. "The
next day, the Coushattas issued a $5,000 check to Reid's tax-exempt
political group, the Searchlight Leadership Fund. A second tribe
represented by Abramoff sent an additional $5,000 to Reid's group.
Reid ultimately received more than $66,000 in Abramoff-related
donations between 2001 and 2004."
The aim of untold millions is to be free to do exactly as they choose
and for someone else to pay when things go wrong.

In the past few decades, a peculiar and distinctive psychology
has emerged in England. Gone are the civility, sturdy independence,
and admirable stoicism that carried the English through the war years
.. It has been replaced by a constant whine of excuses, complaints,
and special pleading. The collapse of the British character has been
as swift and complete as the collapse of British power.

Theodore Dalrymple,

On Mon, 09 Jan 2006 03:58:40 GMT, "Jim Newell"
wrote:

Jim,

I really can't see how this statement earns me the label of troll.

I am not hostile about the situation with the media. It's like walking down
a dirt road, you are going to have a little dust on your boots when you get
back. It's just a fact of life. The only thing silly, is that we are all
supposed to act like media bias does not exist. That's really kind of
foolish.

If it makes you feel any better, then; Anyone who says Rush is not
radically biased towards the right has to be completely brainwashed,
completely stupid, or an outright liar

There, does that make all better? C'mon! At 40, I am getting a little to
old to mince around and play games. The sun rises in the east, water runs
down hill, and yes, there is a bias in the media that favors a liberal
agenda. Christ!, even the media admits it.

I don't think the troll comment was deserved.

Regards,
Jim


Rush admits his bias. Delights in it.
The Leftist Media denies theirs, and lies about it.

Rush is an entertainer. The media..well...

Gunner




"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , Jim Newell
says...

Let's face it, you either have to
be completely brainwashed, completely stupid, or an outright liar

Poor troll, it barely registered over one on the patented
'troll-O-meter:'

0-2-4-6-8-10
------------
^
|

Better luck next time. Keep watching fox news and you might
eventually see something you like.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================


The aim of untold millions is to be free to do exactly as they choose
and for someone else to pay when things go wrong.

In the past few decades, a peculiar and distinctive psychology
has emerged in England. Gone are the civility, sturdy independence,
and admirable stoicism that carried the English through the war years
.. It has been replaced by a constant whine of excuses, complaints,
and special pleading. The collapse of the British character has been
as swift and complete as the collapse of British power.

Theodore Dalrymple,

In article , Jim Newell says...

agenda. Christ!, even the media admits it.

Ok then why did that bastion of liberal media, the NY times,
sit on that NSA case for half a year before printing it?

Because they wanted to make bush look good?

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

In article , Gunner says...

In a little-noticed story in November,

Spin spin spin. Reid didn't take any of that man's money.

The K Street Project was carefully set up so none of the
lobbyists' funds ever got to democrats. Sorry gunner,
this one lands fair and square in the republicans' laps.

This is the part where you talk about, what, the teapot
dome scandle? Or maybe clinton.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On 9 Jan 2006 05:33:49 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gunner says...

In a little-noticed story in November,

Spin spin spin. Reid didn't take any of that man's money.

The K Street Project was carefully set up so none of the
lobbyists' funds ever got to democrats. Sorry gunner,
this one lands fair and square in the republicans' laps.

This is the part where you talk about, what, the teapot
dome scandle? Or maybe clinton.

Jim

You are admitting that the K Street Project was set up to make sure
the Dems hands appeared to be clean?

Gunner

The aim of untold millions is to be free to do exactly as they choose
and for someone else to pay when things go wrong.

In the past few decades, a peculiar and distinctive psychology
has emerged in England. Gone are the civility, sturdy independence,
and admirable stoicism that carried the English through the war years
.. It has been replaced by a constant whine of excuses, complaints,
and special pleading. The collapse of the British character has been
as swift and complete as the collapse of British power.

Theodore Dalrymple,

On 9 Jan 2006 05:30:42 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Jim Newell says...

agenda. Christ!, even the media admits it.

Ok then why did that bastion of liberal media, the NY times,
sit on that NSA case for half a year before printing it?

Because they wanted to make bush look good?

Jim

Because they wanted to present it just before the book came out. Need
the cites?

Gunner

The aim of untold millions is to be free to do exactly as they choose
and for someone else to pay when things go wrong.

In the past few decades, a peculiar and distinctive psychology
has emerged in England. Gone are the civility, sturdy independence,
and admirable stoicism that carried the English through the war years
.. It has been replaced by a constant whine of excuses, complaints,
and special pleading. The collapse of the British character has been
as swift and complete as the collapse of British power.

Theodore Dalrymple,

In article , Gunner says...


You are admitting that the K Street Project was set up to make sure
the Dems hands appeared to be clean?

It was set up to funnel money to republicans. It worked pretty
darn well, too. Except for that one teeny little problem....

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , Gunner says...


You are admitting that the K Street Project was set up to make sure
the Dems hands appeared to be clean?

It was set up to funnel money to republicans. It worked pretty
darn well, too. Except for that one teeny little problem....

The K Street Project was orchestrated by Tom DeLay, which Gunner knows
perfectly well.

What do you suppose he's smoking?

--
Ed Huntress

Ed Huntress wrote:
"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , Gunner
says...


You are admitting that the K Street Project was set up to make sure
the Dems hands appeared to be clean?

It was set up to funnel money to republicans. It worked pretty
darn well, too. Except for that one teeny little problem....

The K Street Project was orchestrated by Tom DeLay, which Gunner knows
perfectly well.

What do you suppose he's smoking?

He recently mentioned a cracked head. I mistakenly thought he was talking
about his vehicle.

--
John R. Carroll
Machining Solution Software, Inc.
Los Angeles San Francisco
www.machiningsolution.com

On 9 Jan 2006 18:31:22 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gunner says...


You are admitting that the K Street Project was set up to make sure
the Dems hands appeared to be clean?

It was set up to funnel money to republicans. It worked pretty
darn well, too. Except for that one teeny little problem....

Jim

Reid had his hand out?

Gunner

The aim of untold millions is to be free to do exactly as they choose
and for someone else to pay when things go wrong.

In the past few decades, a peculiar and distinctive psychology
has emerged in England. Gone are the civility, sturdy independence,
and admirable stoicism that carried the English through the war years
.. It has been replaced by a constant whine of excuses, complaints,
and special pleading. The collapse of the British character has been
as swift and complete as the collapse of British power.

Theodore Dalrymple,

On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 21:50:04 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , Gunner says...


You are admitting that the K Street Project was set up to make sure
the Dems hands appeared to be clean?

It was set up to funnel money to republicans. It worked pretty
darn well, too. Except for that one teeny little problem....

The K Street Project was orchestrated by Tom DeLay, which Gunner knows
perfectly well.

What do you suppose he's smoking?


Actually..I had no idea what the K Street project is/was. But it
sounds like the normal pork project Dems are well known for. Like the
L.A. Subway....

laugh laugh laugh

Gunner

The aim of untold millions is to be free to do exactly as they choose
and for someone else to pay when things go wrong.

In the past few decades, a peculiar and distinctive psychology
has emerged in England. Gone are the civility, sturdy independence,
and admirable stoicism that carried the English through the war years
.. It has been replaced by a constant whine of excuses, complaints,
and special pleading. The collapse of the British character has been
as swift and complete as the collapse of British power.

Theodore Dalrymple,

In article , John R. Carroll
says...

It was set up to funnel money to republicans. It worked pretty
darn well, too. Except for that one teeny little problem....

The K Street Project was orchestrated by Tom DeLay, which Gunner knows
perfectly well.

What do you suppose he's smoking?

He recently mentioned a cracked head. I mistakenly thought he was talking
about his vehicle.

He's desperate.

Why else would he ignore the fact that the machine was set up to
deliver the bucks to the insiders in the republican party - and it
turns out the engine that drove the whole thing was crooked.

What we have here gentlemen is the biggest case of "alligat, alligat,
alligate" cartoon retreat in the history of american politics.

Those guys have the gearshift in "full reverse" away from Mr. Abramoff,
the only problem is he's gonna sing.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

In article , Gunner says...

Reid had his hand out?

Let's go over this one more time.

REID DID NOT TAKE ANY MONEY FROM ABRAMOFF.

I know you would love that to be the case - but think about
it - abramoff's entire reason in life is to funnel money to
insiders - and it's a members-only club we're talking about.

No democrats need apply.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

jim rozen wrote:

REID DID NOT TAKE ANY MONEY FROM ABRAMOFF.

I know you would love that to be the case - but think about
it - abramoff's entire reason in life is to funnel money to
insiders - and it's a members-only club we're talking about.

No democrats need apply.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

The newspapers here are not saying that the Democrats took money from
Abramoff, but they are pointing out that both of our Senators ( Patty
Murray D. and Maria Cantwell D. ) as well as my house rep ( Jay
Inslee D. ) took money from the Indian Tribes that Abramoff
represented. Of those three Democrats, only Maria Cantwell has donated
an amount equal to what she received to charity.

Hey this is almost the same as the Delay mess. Only in this case the
money went directly, rather than indirectly.


Dan

Ed Huntress wrote:


About your comment regarding the facts matching the polls, they almost
always match the results of the poll. You just have to be careful what
you're reading, and you have to make sure you aren't reading something into
it that isn't there. It's also a good idea not to trust one's memory. We
tend to be a lot more biased in individual memory than in survey statistics.
And watch out for reporters' interpretations of surveys. Most of them
wouldn't know a standard deviation from a confidence interval, and they have
no business expounding upon survey research results.

And remember: Statistics means never having to say you're certain. g

--
Ed Huntress

As I remember they missed on Dewey. I also thought that Kerry was
ahead in the polls at one point in the last election. They keep having
polls on Bush's ratings and the number keep changing.

Polls may be accurate reflections of what people think right now, but
they are not all that great at predicting elections months in advance.
That crazy economics professor at Yale did better than the polls.
Again the economy is doing well inspite of the hurricanes. It is going
to be a tough fight for control of Congress.

Dan

wrote in message
oups.com...

Ed Huntress wrote:


About your comment regarding the facts matching the polls, they almost
always match the results of the poll. You just have to be careful what
you're reading, and you have to make sure you aren't reading something
into
it that isn't there. It's also a good idea not to trust one's memory. We
tend to be a lot more biased in individual memory than in survey
statistics.
And watch out for reporters' interpretations of surveys. Most of them
wouldn't know a standard deviation from a confidence interval, and they
have
no business expounding upon survey research results.

And remember: Statistics means never having to say you're certain. g

--
Ed Huntress

As I remember they missed on Dewey.

That was over 50 years ago. Nobody could even spell statistics then. g
Seriously, they missed because of unscientific sampling methods. And they
didn't miss by much.

I also thought that Kerry was
ahead in the polls at one point in the last election.

Oh, more than once. That one swung back and forth a couple of times.

They keep having
polls on Bush's ratings and the number keep changing.

Duh...what do you suppose that means, Mr. Holmes? Maybe people are changing
their minds over time?


Polls may be accurate reflections of what people think right now, but
they are not all that great at predicting elections months in advance.

There isn't one knowledgable or legitimate polling organization that would
claim to predict an election until the last minute.

That's what I meant by understanding what you're looking at. If you don't,
you're going to be a victim, one way or the other. To even suggest a
possibility that a poll can predict an election "months in advance" tells me
you need some work in this area.

That crazy economics professor at Yale did better than the polls.

I'm sure that many people who hang out in bars were much more accurate, too.
Understand that, and you're on your way to learning how to play poker with
the big boys.

Again the economy is doing well inspite of the hurricanes.

Not to mention, despite the alligators. If you've noticed, they've been
staying away. Also the elephants. g

It is going
to be a tough fight for control of Congress.

Yes it is. But it has nothing much to do with the polls that we have now.
The polls we have now tell us something about how people feel now.

--
Ed Huntress

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 21:50:04 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

The K Street Project was orchestrated by Tom DeLay, which Gunner knows
perfectly well.

What do you suppose he's smoking?


Actually..I had no idea what the K Street project is/was. But it
sounds like the normal pork project Dems are well known for. Like the
L.A. Subway....

This was a modest little project by DeLay and company to undermine democracy
for fun and profit.

They made a lot of progress before the law caught up with them.


laugh laugh laugh

Get it in while you can, Gunner. It's not looking good for the neocons.

--
Ed Huntress

Ed Huntress wrote:
"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 21:50:04 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

The K Street Project was orchestrated by Tom DeLay, which Gunner
knows perfectly well.

What do you suppose he's smoking?


Actually..I had no idea what the K Street project is/was. But it
sounds like the normal pork project Dems are well known for. Like the
L.A. Subway....

This was a modest little project by DeLay and company to undermine
democracy for fun and profit.

They made a lot of progress before the law caught up with them.


laugh laugh laugh

Get it in while you can, Gunner. It's not looking good for the
neocons.

There was a 54 seat shift in the election after the "Republican Revolution"
of the 90's.
Given that they actually gained seats in the last mid term it defies any
logic that they wouldn't suffer substantial losses in the 2006 mid term
elections. When Gingrich says there is trouble in River City, he says so
with the foreknowledge of a former Speaker who went through something
similar. Gunner ought to pay attention.

--
John R. Carroll
Machining Solution Software, Inc.
Los Angeles San Francisco
www.machiningsolution.com

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 22:37:12 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 21:50:04 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

The K Street Project was orchestrated by Tom DeLay, which Gunner knows
perfectly well.

What do you suppose he's smoking?


Actually..I had no idea what the K Street project is/was. But it
sounds like the normal pork project Dems are well known for. Like the
L.A. Subway....

This was a modest little project by DeLay and company to undermine democracy
for fun and profit.

They made a lot of progress before the law caught up with them.


laugh laugh laugh

Get it in while you can, Gunner. It's not looking good for the neocons.

The "neocons" are not the whole of conservatives. Or are you claiming
that the Democratic Party is entirely Marxist? They arent you
know..only a bunch of them are Marxists.

Gunner

The aim of untold millions is to be free to do exactly as they choose
and for someone else to pay when things go wrong.

In the past few decades, a peculiar and distinctive psychology
has emerged in England. Gone are the civility, sturdy independence,
and admirable stoicism that carried the English through the war years
.. It has been replaced by a constant whine of excuses, complaints,
and special pleading. The collapse of the British character has been
as swift and complete as the collapse of British power.

Theodore Dalrymple,

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 22:37:12 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 21:50:04 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

The K Street Project was orchestrated by Tom DeLay, which Gunner knows
perfectly well.

What do you suppose he's smoking?


Actually..I had no idea what the K Street project is/was. But it
sounds like the normal pork project Dems are well known for. Like the
L.A. Subway....

This was a modest little project by DeLay and company to undermine
democracy
for fun and profit.

They made a lot of progress before the law caught up with them.


laugh laugh laugh

Get it in while you can, Gunner. It's not looking good for the neocons.

The "neocons" are not the whole of conservatives. Or are you claiming
that the Democratic Party is entirely Marxist? They arent you
know..only a bunch of them are Marxists.

That's true about the neocons. Arguably, they aren't conservatives at all.
But they make up the core of the administration. I'm not sure about the RNC
leadership as a whole.

It's the neocons, however, who are prompting such reactions as those polls
we were looking at over the last few days. And it's the traditional
conservatives who are most disgusted.

FWIW, Gingrich is no neocon. Brooks (since we've been quoting him) only has
neocon sympathies, but is not a neocon himself. Cheney, Rumsfeld, and
Wolfowitz are the core neocons -- warmongers with no respect for democracy
and no concern about fiscal deficits, who really want BIGGER government, as
long as it supports their militaristic/authoritarian goals.

--
Ed Huntress

In article . com,
says...

Hey this is almost the same as the Delay mess.

Except Delay's in big trouble, Dan. Felony trouble.

Ten years in the slammer trouble. All his buddies who
were sucking up to him now are noplace to be found.

The only trouble is for the republicans, Delay knows
where all the bodies are buried, and he will do anything
to cut a deal with the prosecution.

There's a lot of trouble going on, like the coingate guy,
and the guy in california - he was an ex-navy pilot I think.
That guy cut a deal with the prosecution too, he was wearing
a wire for quite some time.

There's a lot of sweating going on because all this stuff
is prosecutable and Delay will be feeding the prosecution
details so he can save his own hide. All the guys he
implicates will be republicans.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Shades of Jim Wright, Dan Rostentowski and Tip O'Niel. They were dems
thought.......

On 11 Jan 2006 05:52:14 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article . com,
says...

Hey this is almost the same as the Delay mess.

Except Delay's in big trouble, Dan. Felony trouble.

Ten years in the slammer trouble. All his buddies who
were sucking up to him now are noplace to be found.

The only trouble is for the republicans, Delay knows
where all the bodies are buried, and he will do anything
to cut a deal with the prosecution.

There's a lot of trouble going on, like the coingate guy,
and the guy in california - he was an ex-navy pilot I think.
That guy cut a deal with the prosecution too, he was wearing
a wire for quite some time.

There's a lot of sweating going on because all this stuff
is prosecutable and Delay will be feeding the prosecution
details so he can save his own hide. All the guys he
implicates will be republicans.

Jim

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2...733.shtml?s=sp

Howard Dean in Abramoff Cash Fib

Democratic National Committee chairman Howard Dean denied on Sunday
that any Democrats had taken money from lobbyist Jack Abramoff, even
though several top Dems - including Sen. Hillary Clinton - have
already announced they were giving their tainted Abramoff cash to
charity.

That little detail didn't faze Dean, however - who insisted with a
straight face to CNN's Wolf Blitzer:

"There are no Democrats who took money from Jack Abramoff, not one,
not one single Democrat. Every person named in this scandal is a
Republican. Every person under investigation is a Republican. Every
person indicted is a Republican.

Dean continued: "This is a Republican finance scandal. There is no
evidence that Jack Abramoff ever gave any Democrat any money. And
we've looked through all of those FEC reports to make sure that's
true."

Last week, Sen. Clinton's office announced that she would be donating
$2,000 of her Abramoff jackpot to charity. The Republican National
Committee says she took a total of $12,900 in Abramoff-linked cash.

Other Democrats who have pledged to return tainted donations include
Sens. Tim Johnson and Barbara Mikulski - as well as leading House
Democrat Charles Rangel.
The aim of untold millions is to be free to do exactly as they choose
and for someone else to pay when things go wrong.

In the past few decades, a peculiar and distinctive psychology
has emerged in England. Gone are the civility, sturdy independence,
and admirable stoicism that carried the English through the war years
.. It has been replaced by a constant whine of excuses, complaints,
and special pleading. The collapse of the British character has been
as swift and complete as the collapse of British power.

Theodore Dalrymple,

Again we will have to wait and see. Delay lost his bid to have the
case dropped, but that does not mean that he is guilty or will be
convicted.

Our Democratic Senator Patty Murray is saying " I didn't get any money
from Abramoff, I got it from the Indians he represented. Prove that he
directed the money to be given to me, and I will donate it to charity.
"

In the same way they will have to prove that Delay made a deal to have
money laundered, and then prove that it was illegal to do so.

Say I set up a education account for my grandson and contributed as
much as the law allows. And then I gave you a bunch of money with the
understanding that you would contribute an equal amount to my grandsons
education account. Is that illegal? Or is that a legal loophole to
get around the limits on contributions.?

If you don't like that example, say I did a big favor for you. And you
then allowed me to do a couple of cattle future trades through your
firm that made me a profit af $100,000.
Is that illegal?


Dan

wrote:
Say I set up a education account for my grandson and contributed as
much as the law allows. And then I gave you a bunch of money with the
understanding that you would contribute an equal amount to my grandsons
education account. Is that illegal?

Yes that is illegal if you're talking about conservatives but for
liberals "it's going by the letter of the law". (Sarcasm....I kain't
hep it.)

In article . com,
says...


Say I set up a education account for my grandson and contributed as
much as the law allows.

You are not tom delay though. The law about campaign contributions
is very very clear. As you say, he's been charged. Now let the
courts work their work.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

In article , says...


There's a lot of sweating going on because all this stuff
is prosecutable and Delay will be feeding the prosecution
details so he can save his own hide. All the guys he
implicates will be republicans.


Best (only?) laugh so far from the Alito hearings: In response to
Alito's testimony that his memory was not clear on some point, Lindsey
Graham R-SC quipped, "I hope you'll understand if any us come before a
court and we can't remember Abramoff, you will tend to believe us."

Googling for the exact quote turned up another unattributed crack from
the hearing. =3FAbramoff who? That=3Fs the guy in the Bible, right?=3F

Ned Simmons