William Wixon wrote:

It's a Seneca Falls lathe. Quite old, but well known.

3. my main, most important question, wondering if anyone knows how to
either get it out/off completely or get it screwed back on to the turn screw
handle (photo "lathe4") there's a blind hole on the underside of the
decorative turning on the end of the tailstock (photo "lathe5"), i'm
wondering if maybe that's a hole for a spanner wrench to turn off that end
(like a threaded nut). i can't tell if that decorative turning is a
removable threaded "nut" or if it's an integral part of the casting.

(i tried to get the ram back on the thread by first, tapping gently the
tip of the live dead center (with a chunk of lead) while turning the handle,
that didn't work, then i put a long pipe clamp on it (forcing the live dead
center (and ram) back in towards the crank turn handle) and tightened it
while turning the handle and that didn't work either.)


Whack it gently with a wooden block until you can feel the threads starting
to engage by gently turning the handle. Then, keep the threads loose as you
whack it back some more. Don't try to retract the ram as soon as the
threads
engage, keep whacking it back and keeping the threads from binding for a
full turn of the handle. This will prevent ripping out the threads.
You probably
need some real penetrating oil, not WD-40. Lube the ram liberally as you
work it back in, and it should carry the penetrating oil into the casting.
If there is a keyway in the ram (pretty much has to be) make sure that is
not what is causing the bind-up. In fact, you might remove the key if
possible
(often a screw with a narrow cylinder point) you might be able to
improvise a
strap wrench and twist the ram to loosen it.



Worthless? On the commercial market, maybe. On the hobby market,
it is worth exactly whatever you PAID for it!

Jon

Hi,
i have a few questions if anyone out there would mind taking the time to
answer. (question number 3. below is most important) i finally acquired a
lathe (been wishing i had one since metal shop in high school, '74/'77)

1. wondering if there might possibly be somewhere on the web where i
could download a owner/operator manual.

2. if any of you guys know what kind of lathe it is (wondering if it was
specifically designed/manufactured for cutting screw threads, based on the
cryptic numbers on the bronze tag in picture "lathe7") all i can find on it
as to an indication to who manufactured it and/or a "brand" name are the
bronze tag on the headstock, says "The Seneca Falls Mfg. Co. Makers Seneca
Falls, N.Y." (same words cast into the legs) and in the casting on the bed
"Star" (and there's some patent numbers and dates). you can just barely see
the word "Star" in pic "lathe2".

it was kinda rusted tight, i sprayed it all over with WD-40 and worked
the various levers and handles. the tailstock ram handle was so tight i
could hardly turn it. i kept spraying it and working it. i figured if i
turned it far enough the ram would come off the screw and out of the
tailstock. it finally came off the end of the screw but then i couldn't get
it out and couldn't get it threaded back on either! i'm afraid to damage it
by forcing it, so...

3. my main, most important question, wondering if anyone knows how to
either get it out/off completely or get it screwed back on to the turn screw
handle (photo "lathe4") there's a blind hole on the underside of the
decorative turning on the end of the tailstock (photo "lathe5"), i'm
wondering if maybe that's a hole for a spanner wrench to turn off that end
(like a threaded nut). i can't tell if that decorative turning is a
removable threaded "nut" or if it's an integral part of the casting.

(i tried to get the ram back on the thread by first, tapping gently the
tip of the live dead center (with a chunk of lead) while turning the handle,
that didn't work, then i put a long pipe clamp on it (forcing the live dead
center (and ram) back in towards the crank turn handle) and tightened it
while turning the handle and that didn't work either.)

4. it has three flat belt step pulleys. i'd like to see if i can
improve upon the system the previous owner put together to transmit power to
the lathe. the motor unit hangs off the back of the lathe and is so heavy
it almost wants to tip the lathe over backwards. i'm hoping i could maybe
put together a simpler, much lighter motor mount/step pulley arrangement,
*and* hang a newer more powerful motor on it, and maybe have the whole
shebang directly over the headstock instead of hanging off the back. i'm
wondering, what are the most common "speeds" (at the chuck) for those three
step pulleys. i'm hoping from there i could calculate the size the "v" belt
pulleys i'll need from the motor to the step pulleys (large aluminum pulley
in picture "lathe6") to end up with the correct speeds at the chuck.

5. too many questions all at once? if you're still with me, how about
one more? the chart of numbers on the bronze tag, is that for cutting screw
threads? the lathe came with several gears, i'm wondering if that chart
tells which gear to use to get how ever many threads per inch, but, the
gears don't have any corresponding numbers from the chart, they have a code
number cast in them and a number saying how many teeth are on the gear but
as far as i can tell no number that matches up to any numbers on the chart.

the guys i got the lathe from said, kind of under their breath, that this
lathe is next-to-worthless, wondering if anyone here could confirm that
assessment.

http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe1.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe2.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe3.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe4.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe5.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe6.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe7.jpg

http://www.lathes.co.uk/senecafalls/index.html
The lathe is the easy part, but whats all that white stuff in the background
of the pictures ?
gary



"William Wixon" wrote in message
...
Hi,
i have a few questions if anyone out there would mind taking the time to
answer. (question number 3. below is most important) i finally acquired a
lathe (been wishing i had one since metal shop in high school, '74/'77)

1. wondering if there might possibly be somewhere on the web where i
could download a owner/operator manual.

2. if any of you guys know what kind of lathe it is (wondering if it
was specifically designed/manufactured for cutting screw threads, based on
the cryptic numbers on the bronze tag in picture "lathe7") all i can find
on it as to an indication to who manufactured it and/or a "brand" name are
the bronze tag on the headstock, says "The Seneca Falls Mfg. Co. Makers
Seneca Falls, N.Y." (same words cast into the legs) and in the casting on
the bed "Star" (and there's some patent numbers and dates). you can just
barely see the word "Star" in pic "lathe2".

it was kinda rusted tight, i sprayed it all over with WD-40 and worked
the various levers and handles. the tailstock ram handle was so tight i
could hardly turn it. i kept spraying it and working it. i figured if i
turned it far enough the ram would come off the screw and out of the
tailstock. it finally came off the end of the screw but then i couldn't
get it out and couldn't get it threaded back on either! i'm afraid to
damage it by forcing it, so...

3. my main, most important question, wondering if anyone knows how to
either get it out/off completely or get it screwed back on to the turn
screw handle (photo "lathe4") there's a blind hole on the underside of the
decorative turning on the end of the tailstock (photo "lathe5"), i'm
wondering if maybe that's a hole for a spanner wrench to turn off that end
(like a threaded nut). i can't tell if that decorative turning is a
removable threaded "nut" or if it's an integral part of the casting.

(i tried to get the ram back on the thread by first, tapping gently the
tip of the live dead center (with a chunk of lead) while turning the
handle, that didn't work, then i put a long pipe clamp on it (forcing the
live dead center (and ram) back in towards the crank turn handle) and
tightened it while turning the handle and that didn't work either.)

4. it has three flat belt step pulleys. i'd like to see if i can
improve upon the system the previous owner put together to transmit power
to the lathe. the motor unit hangs off the back of the lathe and is so
heavy it almost wants to tip the lathe over backwards. i'm hoping i could
maybe put together a simpler, much lighter motor mount/step pulley
arrangement, *and* hang a newer more powerful motor on it, and maybe have
the whole shebang directly over the headstock instead of hanging off the
back. i'm wondering, what are the most common "speeds" (at the chuck) for
those three step pulleys. i'm hoping from there i could calculate the
size the "v" belt pulleys i'll need from the motor to the step pulleys
(large aluminum pulley in picture "lathe6") to end up with the correct
speeds at the chuck.

5. too many questions all at once? if you're still with me, how about
one more? the chart of numbers on the bronze tag, is that for cutting
screw threads? the lathe came with several gears, i'm wondering if that
chart tells which gear to use to get how ever many threads per inch, but,
the gears don't have any corresponding numbers from the chart, they have a
code number cast in them and a number saying how many teeth are on the
gear but as far as i can tell no number that matches up to any numbers on
the chart.

the guys i got the lathe from said, kind of under their breath, that this
lathe is next-to-worthless, wondering if anyone here could confirm that
assessment.

http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe1.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe2.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe3.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe4.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe5.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe6.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe7.jpg

1. wondering if there might possibly be somewhere on the web where i
could download a owner/operator manual.

Check with this forum

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/ub...ubb=forum;f=11

Also, search on Seneca in this forum and you will see some discussions.

2. if any of you guys know what kind of lathe it is (wondering if it was
specifically designed/manufactured for cutting screw threads, based on the
cryptic numbers on the bronze tag in picture "lathe7") all i can find on it
as to an indication to who manufactured it and/or a "brand" name are the
bronze tag on the headstock, says "The Seneca Falls Mfg. Co. Makers Seneca
Falls, N.Y." (same words cast into the legs) and in the casting on the bed
"Star" (and there's some patent numbers and dates). you can just barely see
the word "Star" in pic "lathe2".

Just what the tag says.

it was kinda rusted tight, i sprayed it all over with WD-40 and worked
the various levers and handles. the tailstock ram handle was so tight i
could hardly turn it. i kept spraying it and working it. i figured if i
turned it far enough the ram would come off the screw and out of the
tailstock. it finally came off the end of the screw but then i couldn't get
it out and couldn't get it threaded back on either! i'm afraid to damage it
by forcing it, so...

Get some real penetrant - Kroil, PB Blaster. Even ATF is a good choice.
Soak it down good before you try to force anything. I know it's hard
to resist. And don't take apart more than one assembly at a time. Get
the tailstock as nice as you can before dismantling the carriage.

4. it has three flat belt step pulleys. i'd like to see if i can
improve upon the system the previous owner put together to transmit power to
the lathe. the motor unit hangs off the back of the lathe and is so heavy
it almost wants to tip the lathe over backwards. i'm hoping i could maybe
put together a simpler, much lighter motor mount/step pulley arrangement,
*and* hang a newer more powerful motor on it, and maybe have the whole
shebang directly over the headstock instead of hanging off the back.

I'd put it together the way it is. That assembly looks pretty factory to
me. If you put it over the HS it will be more dangerous to work around
IMHO. As for the weight hanging off the back, some lathes like this had
a 5th leg to keep it from tipping back.

5. too many questions all at once? if you're still with me, how about
one more? the chart of numbers on the bronze tag, is that for cutting screw
threads? the lathe came with several gears, i'm wondering if that chart
tells which gear to use to get how ever many threads per inch, but, the
gears don't have any corresponding numbers from the chart, they have a code
number cast in them and a number saying how many teeth are on the gear but
as far as i can tell no number that matches up to any numbers on the chart.

(Probably)
First number is threads per inch
2nd number is the tooth count on the spur, or intermediate gear.
3rd number is tooth count for the lead screw gear.


the guys i got the lathe from said, kind of under their breath, that this
lathe is next-to-worthless, wondering if anyone here could confirm that
assessment.

Looks like an antique, but I've seen worse.
I have two nice lathes already, but if this had been ffered to me I'd
have it loaded pretty quick.
I do hope you have it out of the snow by now.

Have fun with your new toy

Rex Burkheimer
No snow in Fort Worth - 70 degrees tomorrow

Gary Owens wrote:

The lathe is the easy part, but whats all that white stuff in the background
of the pictures ?

The white stuff is a work-in-progress-indicator. When it switches to
green, work will be done. If not, it will switch from green to red and
then back to white. Can be repeatet several times.

Nice old-style lathe, BTW!


Nick
--
Motor Modelle // Engine Models
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de
DIY-DRO - YADRO - Eigenbau-Digitalanzeige

Hey William,

Well, first off, get it in out of the cold. There is a good chance
that the casting has shrunk slightly and is therefore tight. When
cold, everything is tougher to work on, and has greater risk of
breaking if you force anything.

When you do move it into a warmer place, blow some dry heat over it,
and keep it under constant air circulation for at least a day until it
warms up to room temperature so it won't rust from the condensation
formed when coming in from the cold. Be ready for that before
bringing it in.

As to "#3", I think would remove the barrel lock/clamp from the
tail-stock body and fill it with very light oil to soak for a while
and get as much in as you can. Then after it is all warmed up and
oil filled, I'd be tempted to put a clamp from the nose of the
tail-stock barrel to the center of the handwheel and try to bring the
barrel back into the thread. Make EVERY effort NOT to push/pull on
that live center though, even if you have to make some sort of clamp
arrangement to push only on the quill. And do what-ever it takes to
be sure you are pulling "straight back" and no chance of pulling
off-center on the quill to prevent it galling and possibly cracking
the bore/casting.

Take care.

Good Luck. It's not a bad looking machine at all!!

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 22:34:52 GMT, "William Wixon"
wrote:

Hi,
i have a few questions if anyone out there would mind taking the time to
answer. (question number 3. below is most important) i finally acquired a
lathe (been wishing i had one since metal shop in high school, '74/'77)

1. wondering if there might possibly be somewhere on the web where i
could download a owner/operator manual.

2. if any of you guys know what kind of lathe it is (wondering if it was
specifically designed/manufactured for cutting screw threads, based on the
cryptic numbers on the bronze tag in picture "lathe7") all i can find on it
as to an indication to who manufactured it and/or a "brand" name are the
bronze tag on the headstock, says "The Seneca Falls Mfg. Co. Makers Seneca
Falls, N.Y." (same words cast into the legs) and in the casting on the bed
"Star" (and there's some patent numbers and dates). you can just barely see
the word "Star" in pic "lathe2".

it was kinda rusted tight, i sprayed it all over with WD-40 and worked
the various levers and handles. the tailstock ram handle was so tight i
could hardly turn it. i kept spraying it and working it. i figured if i
turned it far enough the ram would come off the screw and out of the
tailstock. it finally came off the end of the screw but then i couldn't get
it out and couldn't get it threaded back on either! i'm afraid to damage it
by forcing it, so...

3. my main, most important question, wondering if anyone knows how to
either get it out/off completely or get it screwed back on to the turn screw
handle (photo "lathe4") there's a blind hole on the underside of the
decorative turning on the end of the tailstock (photo "lathe5"), i'm
wondering if maybe that's a hole for a spanner wrench to turn off that end
(like a threaded nut). i can't tell if that decorative turning is a
removable threaded "nut" or if it's an integral part of the casting.

(i tried to get the ram back on the thread by first, tapping gently the
tip of the live dead center (with a chunk of lead) while turning the handle,
that didn't work, then i put a long pipe clamp on it (forcing the live dead
center (and ram) back in towards the crank turn handle) and tightened it
while turning the handle and that didn't work either.)

4. it has three flat belt step pulleys. i'd like to see if i can
improve upon the system the previous owner put together to transmit power to
the lathe. the motor unit hangs off the back of the lathe and is so heavy
it almost wants to tip the lathe over backwards. i'm hoping i could maybe
put together a simpler, much lighter motor mount/step pulley arrangement,
*and* hang a newer more powerful motor on it, and maybe have the whole
shebang directly over the headstock instead of hanging off the back. i'm
wondering, what are the most common "speeds" (at the chuck) for those three
step pulleys. i'm hoping from there i could calculate the size the "v" belt
pulleys i'll need from the motor to the step pulleys (large aluminum pulley
in picture "lathe6") to end up with the correct speeds at the chuck.

5. too many questions all at once? if you're still with me, how about
one more? the chart of numbers on the bronze tag, is that for cutting screw
threads? the lathe came with several gears, i'm wondering if that chart
tells which gear to use to get how ever many threads per inch, but, the
gears don't have any corresponding numbers from the chart, they have a code
number cast in them and a number saying how many teeth are on the gear but
as far as i can tell no number that matches up to any numbers on the chart.

the guys i got the lathe from said, kind of under their breath, that this
lathe is next-to-worthless, wondering if anyone here could confirm that
assessment.

http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe1.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe2.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe3.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe4.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe5.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe6.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe7.jpg

Just bringing it up to normal temp might fix the stuck parts. I bought a
Botsford lathe once real nice copy of a SB. It was cold has hell and nothing
moved, it had been sitting for years. I brought it in my shop let it worm up
for a day and it moved ok them a good cleaning and some fresh oil it was
fine. Some of that old oil will get real thick in the cold, and it sure has
been a cold december. I am dreading picking up 2 Sheldon lathes next week,
things just seem to break much faster in the cold.
"Brian Lawson" wrote in message
...
Hey William,

Well, first off, get it in out of the cold. There is a good chance
that the casting has shrunk slightly and is therefore tight. When
cold, everything is tougher to work on, and has greater risk of
breaking if you force anything.

When you do move it into a warmer place, blow some dry heat over it,
and keep it under constant air circulation for at least a day until it
warms up to room temperature so it won't rust from the condensation
formed when coming in from the cold. Be ready for that before
bringing it in.

As to "#3", I think would remove the barrel lock/clamp from the
tail-stock body and fill it with very light oil to soak for a while
and get as much in as you can. Then after it is all warmed up and
oil filled, I'd be tempted to put a clamp from the nose of the
tail-stock barrel to the center of the handwheel and try to bring the
barrel back into the thread. Make EVERY effort NOT to push/pull on
that live center though, even if you have to make some sort of clamp
arrangement to push only on the quill. And do what-ever it takes to
be sure you are pulling "straight back" and no chance of pulling
off-center on the quill to prevent it galling and possibly cracking
the bore/casting.

Take care.

Good Luck. It's not a bad looking machine at all!!

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 22:34:52 GMT, "William Wixon"
wrote:

Hi,
i have a few questions if anyone out there would mind taking the time to
answer. (question number 3. below is most important) i finally acquired a
lathe (been wishing i had one since metal shop in high school, '74/'77)

1. wondering if there might possibly be somewhere on the web where i
could download a owner/operator manual.

2. if any of you guys know what kind of lathe it is (wondering if it
was
specifically designed/manufactured for cutting screw threads, based on the
cryptic numbers on the bronze tag in picture "lathe7") all i can find on
it
as to an indication to who manufactured it and/or a "brand" name are the
bronze tag on the headstock, says "The Seneca Falls Mfg. Co. Makers
Seneca
Falls, N.Y." (same words cast into the legs) and in the casting on the bed
"Star" (and there's some patent numbers and dates). you can just barely
see
the word "Star" in pic "lathe2".

it was kinda rusted tight, i sprayed it all over with WD-40 and worked
the various levers and handles. the tailstock ram handle was so tight i
could hardly turn it. i kept spraying it and working it. i figured if i
turned it far enough the ram would come off the screw and out of the
tailstock. it finally came off the end of the screw but then i couldn't
get
it out and couldn't get it threaded back on either! i'm afraid to damage
it
by forcing it, so...

3. my main, most important question, wondering if anyone knows how to
either get it out/off completely or get it screwed back on to the turn
screw
handle (photo "lathe4") there's a blind hole on the underside of the
decorative turning on the end of the tailstock (photo "lathe5"), i'm
wondering if maybe that's a hole for a spanner wrench to turn off that end
(like a threaded nut). i can't tell if that decorative turning is a
removable threaded "nut" or if it's an integral part of the casting.

(i tried to get the ram back on the thread by first, tapping gently
the
tip of the live dead center (with a chunk of lead) while turning the
handle,
that didn't work, then i put a long pipe clamp on it (forcing the live
dead
center (and ram) back in towards the crank turn handle) and tightened it
while turning the handle and that didn't work either.)

4. it has three flat belt step pulleys. i'd like to see if i can
improve upon the system the previous owner put together to transmit power
to
the lathe. the motor unit hangs off the back of the lathe and is so heavy
it almost wants to tip the lathe over backwards. i'm hoping i could maybe
put together a simpler, much lighter motor mount/step pulley arrangement,
*and* hang a newer more powerful motor on it, and maybe have the whole
shebang directly over the headstock instead of hanging off the back. i'm
wondering, what are the most common "speeds" (at the chuck) for those
three
step pulleys. i'm hoping from there i could calculate the size the "v"
belt
pulleys i'll need from the motor to the step pulleys (large aluminum
pulley
in picture "lathe6") to end up with the correct speeds at the chuck.

5. too many questions all at once? if you're still with me, how
about
one more? the chart of numbers on the bronze tag, is that for cutting
screw
threads? the lathe came with several gears, i'm wondering if that chart
tells which gear to use to get how ever many threads per inch, but, the
gears don't have any corresponding numbers from the chart, they have a
code
number cast in them and a number saying how many teeth are on the gear but
as far as i can tell no number that matches up to any numbers on the
chart.

the guys i got the lathe from said, kind of under their breath, that this
lathe is next-to-worthless, wondering if anyone here could confirm that
assessment.

http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe1.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe2.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe3.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe4.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe5.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe6.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe7.jpg

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 16:19:47 -0600, Jon Elson
wrote:



William Wixon wrote:

It's a Seneca Falls lathe. Quite old, but well known.

3. my main, most important question, wondering if anyone knows how to
either get it out/off completely or get it screwed back on to the turn screw
handle (photo "lathe4") there's a blind hole on the underside of the
decorative turning on the end of the tailstock (photo "lathe5"), i'm
wondering if maybe that's a hole for a spanner wrench to turn off that end
(like a threaded nut). i can't tell if that decorative turning is a
removable threaded "nut" or if it's an integral part of the casting.

(i tried to get the ram back on the thread by first, tapping gently the
tip of the live dead center (with a chunk of lead) while turning the handle,
that didn't work, then i put a long pipe clamp on it (forcing the live dead
center (and ram) back in towards the crank turn handle) and tightened it
while turning the handle and that didn't work either.)

Make certain that the clamping screw is loose

Whack it gently with a wooden block until you can feel the threads starting
to engage by gently turning the handle. Then, keep the threads loose as you
whack it back some more. Don't try to retract the ram as soon as the
threads
engage, keep whacking it back and keeping the threads from binding for a
full turn of the handle. This will prevent ripping out the threads.
You probably
need some real penetrating oil, not WD-40. Lube the ram liberally as you
work it back in, and it should carry the penetrating oil into the casting.
If there is a keyway in the ram (pretty much has to be) make sure that is
not what is causing the bind-up. In fact, you might remove the key if
possible
(often a screw with a narrow cylinder point) you might be able to
improvise a
strap wrench and twist the ram to loosen it.



Worthless? On the commercial market, maybe. On the hobby market,
it is worth exactly whatever you PAID for it!

Jon

Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

William
Just a thing or two.
Get off the WD-40 thing. Use mineral spirits. Buy a gallon of the
stuff.
Do as others mentioned-get it inside and warmed up. A stiff wire brush
on a drill motor will do wonders for the tube where the tailstock
plunger goes back in. Or better still a brass wire brush.
Clean up the whole thing. It will give you a lot of familiarity with
your lathe that few enjoy.
And finally clean up the wiring mess.
Bob AZ

Hello William,

I picked up a Seneca Star recently, very similar to, if not identical the
one you have just acquired. I think you are going to need an arrangement to
drop the motor speed, via a countershaft or some such. Mine came with an
original speed reducer, which I believe drops the speed by about 10:1. This
speed reducer hangs on the back of the lathe, has a cone head pulley to
drive the lathe, and a driven pulley that takes the drive from the motor,
with a gear box in between. I'll check the ratio over the next couple of
days (today is going to be frantic), and post it.

I think you are looking for output speeds in the range from 20-1200 or so.

Regards,

Adam Smith
Midland, ON Canada

lots of that white stuff here, too

"William Wixon" wrote in message
...
Hi,
i have a few questions if anyone out there would mind taking the time to
answer. (question number 3. below is most important) i finally acquired a
lathe (been wishing i had one since metal shop in high school, '74/'77)

1. wondering if there might possibly be somewhere on the web where i
could download a owner/operator manual.

2. if any of you guys know what kind of lathe it is (wondering if it
was specifically designed/manufactured for cutting screw threads, based on
the cryptic numbers on the bronze tag in picture "lathe7") all i can find
on it as to an indication to who manufactured it and/or a "brand" name are
the bronze tag on the headstock, says "The Seneca Falls Mfg. Co. Makers
Seneca Falls, N.Y." (same words cast into the legs) and in the casting on
the bed "Star" (and there's some patent numbers and dates). you can just
barely see the word "Star" in pic "lathe2".

it was kinda rusted tight, i sprayed it all over with WD-40 and worked
the various levers and handles. the tailstock ram handle was so tight i
could hardly turn it. i kept spraying it and working it. i figured if i
turned it far enough the ram would come off the screw and out of the
tailstock. it finally came off the end of the screw but then i couldn't
get it out and couldn't get it threaded back on either! i'm afraid to
damage it by forcing it, so...

3. my main, most important question, wondering if anyone knows how to
either get it out/off completely or get it screwed back on to the turn
screw handle (photo "lathe4") there's a blind hole on the underside of the
decorative turning on the end of the tailstock (photo "lathe5"), i'm
wondering if maybe that's a hole for a spanner wrench to turn off that end
(like a threaded nut). i can't tell if that decorative turning is a
removable threaded "nut" or if it's an integral part of the casting.

(i tried to get the ram back on the thread by first, tapping gently the
tip of the live dead center (with a chunk of lead) while turning the
handle, that didn't work, then i put a long pipe clamp on it (forcing the
live dead center (and ram) back in towards the crank turn handle) and
tightened it while turning the handle and that didn't work either.)

4. it has three flat belt step pulleys. i'd like to see if i can
improve upon the system the previous owner put together to transmit power
to the lathe. the motor unit hangs off the back of the lathe and is so
heavy it almost wants to tip the lathe over backwards. i'm hoping i could
maybe put together a simpler, much lighter motor mount/step pulley
arrangement, *and* hang a newer more powerful motor on it, and maybe have
the whole shebang directly over the headstock instead of hanging off the
back. i'm wondering, what are the most common "speeds" (at the chuck) for
those three step pulleys. i'm hoping from there i could calculate the
size the "v" belt pulleys i'll need from the motor to the step pulleys
(large aluminum pulley in picture "lathe6") to end up with the correct
speeds at the chuck.

5. too many questions all at once? if you're still with me, how about
one more? the chart of numbers on the bronze tag, is that for cutting
screw threads? the lathe came with several gears, i'm wondering if that
chart tells which gear to use to get how ever many threads per inch, but,
the gears don't have any corresponding numbers from the chart, they have a
code number cast in them and a number saying how many teeth are on the
gear but as far as i can tell no number that matches up to any numbers on
the chart.

the guys i got the lathe from said, kind of under their breath, that this
lathe is next-to-worthless, wondering if anyone here could confirm that
assessment.

http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe1.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe2.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe3.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe4.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe5.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe6.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe7.jpg

I didn't make myself clear in the earlier post: range from 20-1200, takes
into consideration both the lathes back gear, and an additional countershaft
and/or speed reducer. The countershaft will have a cone pulley just like the
one on the lathe but backwards, so
large drives small, medium drives medium, and small drives large. 20 rpm
would be with speed reduction, belt on small driver large driven pulleys,
and back gears engaged. 1200 would be without back gear engaged, and with
large driving small.

I'll post a picture of the Seneca speed reducer, when I get a chance.

Regards,

Adam

"William Wixon" wrote in message
...
Hi,
i have a few questions if anyone out there would mind taking the time to
answer. (question number 3. below is most important) i finally acquired a
lathe (been wishing i had one since metal shop in high school, '74/'77)

1. wondering if there might possibly be somewhere on the web where i
could download a owner/operator manual.

2. if any of you guys know what kind of lathe it is (wondering if it
was specifically designed/manufactured for cutting screw threads, based on
the cryptic numbers on the bronze tag in picture "lathe7") all i can find
on it as to an indication to who manufactured it and/or a "brand" name are
the bronze tag on the headstock, says "The Seneca Falls Mfg. Co. Makers
Seneca Falls, N.Y." (same words cast into the legs) and in the casting on
the bed "Star" (and there's some patent numbers and dates). you can just
barely see the word "Star" in pic "lathe2".

it was kinda rusted tight, i sprayed it all over with WD-40 and worked
the various levers and handles. the tailstock ram handle was so tight i
could hardly turn it. i kept spraying it and working it. i figured if i
turned it far enough the ram would come off the screw and out of the
tailstock. it finally came off the end of the screw but then i couldn't
get it out and couldn't get it threaded back on either! i'm afraid to
damage it by forcing it, so...

3. my main, most important question, wondering if anyone knows how to
either get it out/off completely or get it screwed back on to the turn
screw handle (photo "lathe4") there's a blind hole on the underside of the
decorative turning on the end of the tailstock (photo "lathe5"), i'm
wondering if maybe that's a hole for a spanner wrench to turn off that end
(like a threaded nut). i can't tell if that decorative turning is a
removable threaded "nut" or if it's an integral part of the casting.

(i tried to get the ram back on the thread by first, tapping gently the
tip of the live dead center (with a chunk of lead) while turning the
handle, that didn't work, then i put a long pipe clamp on it (forcing the
live dead center (and ram) back in towards the crank turn handle) and
tightened it while turning the handle and that didn't work either.)

4. it has three flat belt step pulleys. i'd like to see if i can
improve upon the system the previous owner put together to transmit power
to the lathe. the motor unit hangs off the back of the lathe and is so
heavy it almost wants to tip the lathe over backwards. i'm hoping i could
maybe put together a simpler, much lighter motor mount/step pulley
arrangement, *and* hang a newer more powerful motor on it, and maybe have
the whole shebang directly over the headstock instead of hanging off the
back. i'm wondering, what are the most common "speeds" (at the chuck) for
those three step pulleys. i'm hoping from there i could calculate the
size the "v" belt pulleys i'll need from the motor to the step pulleys
(large aluminum pulley in picture "lathe6") to end up with the correct
speeds at the chuck.

5. too many questions all at once? if you're still with me, how about
one more? the chart of numbers on the bronze tag, is that for cutting
screw threads? the lathe came with several gears, i'm wondering if that
chart tells which gear to use to get how ever many threads per inch, but,
the gears don't have any corresponding numbers from the chart, they have a
code number cast in them and a number saying how many teeth are on the
gear but as far as i can tell no number that matches up to any numbers on
the chart.

the guys i got the lathe from said, kind of under their breath, that this
lathe is next-to-worthless, wondering if anyone here could confirm that
assessment.

http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe1.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe2.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe3.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe4.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe5.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe6.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe7.jpg

Phtttt!!! It doesn't get COLD in your neck of the woods! Cool maybe.

Cold is when 30 weight oil congels and turns white. (About -20F) Cold is
when mild steel shatters rather than breaking (Around -40F) Cold is when
you can drive a semi truck across the temproary highway on 3' ice on
the lake (just don't follow another truck or the wave action will set up
on the lake underneath)

wayne mak wrote:

Just bringing it up to normal temp might fix the stuck parts. I bought a
Botsford lathe once real nice copy of a SB. It was cold has hell and nothing
moved, it had been sitting for years. I brought it in my shop let it worm up
for a day and it moved ok them a good cleaning and some fresh oil it was
fine. Some of that old oil will get real thick in the cold, and it sure has
been a cold december. I am dreading picking up 2 Sheldon lathes next week,
things just seem to break much faster in the cold.
"Brian Lawson" wrote in message
...

Hey William,

Well, first off, get it in out of the cold. There is a good chance
that the casting has shrunk slightly and is therefore tight. When
cold, everything is tougher to work on, and has greater risk of
breaking if you force anything.

When you do move it into a warmer place, blow some dry heat over it,
and keep it under constant air circulation for at least a day until it
warms up to room temperature so it won't rust from the condensation
formed when coming in from the cold. Be ready for that before
bringing it in.

As to "#3", I think would remove the barrel lock/clamp from the
tail-stock body and fill it with very light oil to soak for a while
and get as much in as you can. Then after it is all warmed up and
oil filled, I'd be tempted to put a clamp from the nose of the
tail-stock barrel to the center of the handwheel and try to bring the
barrel back into the thread. Make EVERY effort NOT to push/pull on
that live center though, even if you have to make some sort of clamp
arrangement to push only on the quill. And do what-ever it takes to
be sure you are pulling "straight back" and no chance of pulling
off-center on the quill to prevent it galling and possibly cracking
the bore/casting.

Take care.

Good Luck. It's not a bad looking machine at all!!

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 22:34:52 GMT, "William Wixon"
wrote:


Hi,
i have a few questions if anyone out there would mind taking the time to
answer. (question number 3. below is most important) i finally acquired a
lathe (been wishing i had one since metal shop in high school, '74/'77)

1. wondering if there might possibly be somewhere on the web where i
could download a owner/operator manual.

2. if any of you guys know what kind of lathe it is (wondering if it
was
specifically designed/manufactured for cutting screw threads, based on the
cryptic numbers on the bronze tag in picture "lathe7") all i can find on
it
as to an indication to who manufactured it and/or a "brand" name are the
bronze tag on the headstock, says "The Seneca Falls Mfg. Co. Makers
Seneca
Falls, N.Y." (same words cast into the legs) and in the casting on the bed
"Star" (and there's some patent numbers and dates). you can just barely
see
the word "Star" in pic "lathe2".

it was kinda rusted tight, i sprayed it all over with WD-40 and worked
the various levers and handles. the tailstock ram handle was so tight i
could hardly turn it. i kept spraying it and working it. i figured if i
turned it far enough the ram would come off the screw and out of the
tailstock. it finally came off the end of the screw but then i couldn't
get
it out and couldn't get it threaded back on either! i'm afraid to damage
it
by forcing it, so...

3. my main, most important question, wondering if anyone knows how to
either get it out/off completely or get it screwed back on to the turn
screw
handle (photo "lathe4") there's a blind hole on the underside of the
decorative turning on the end of the tailstock (photo "lathe5"), i'm
wondering if maybe that's a hole for a spanner wrench to turn off that end
(like a threaded nut). i can't tell if that decorative turning is a
removable threaded "nut" or if it's an integral part of the casting.

(i tried to get the ram back on the thread by first, tapping gently
the
tip of the live dead center (with a chunk of lead) while turning the
handle,
that didn't work, then i put a long pipe clamp on it (forcing the live
dead
center (and ram) back in towards the crank turn handle) and tightened it
while turning the handle and that didn't work either.)

4. it has three flat belt step pulleys. i'd like to see if i can
improve upon the system the previous owner put together to transmit power
to
the lathe. the motor unit hangs off the back of the lathe and is so heavy
it almost wants to tip the lathe over backwards. i'm hoping i could maybe
put together a simpler, much lighter motor mount/step pulley arrangement,
*and* hang a newer more powerful motor on it, and maybe have the whole
shebang directly over the headstock instead of hanging off the back. i'm
wondering, what are the most common "speeds" (at the chuck) for those
three
step pulleys. i'm hoping from there i could calculate the size the "v"
belt
pulleys i'll need from the motor to the step pulleys (large aluminum
pulley
in picture "lathe6") to end up with the correct speeds at the chuck.

5. too many questions all at once? if you're still with me, how
about
one more? the chart of numbers on the bronze tag, is that for cutting
screw
threads? the lathe came with several gears, i'm wondering if that chart
tells which gear to use to get how ever many threads per inch, but, the
gears don't have any corresponding numbers from the chart, they have a
code
number cast in them and a number saying how many teeth are on the gear but
as far as i can tell no number that matches up to any numbers on the
chart.

the guys i got the lathe from said, kind of under their breath, that this
lathe is next-to-worthless, wondering if anyone here could confirm that
assessment.

http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe1.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe2.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe3.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe4.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe5.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe6.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe7.jpg

Well when its at 0 F thats cold enough to make things stick. I have NO
desire to subject myself to any colder than it gets here.
"RoyJ" wrote in message
ink.net...
Phtttt!!! It doesn't get COLD in your neck of the woods! Cool maybe.

Cold is when 30 weight oil congels and turns white. (About -20F) Cold is
when mild steel shatters rather than breaking (Around -40F) Cold is when
you can drive a semi truck across the temproary highway on 3' ice on the
lake (just don't follow another truck or the wave action will set up on
the lake underneath)

wayne mak wrote:

Just bringing it up to normal temp might fix the stuck parts. I bought a
Botsford lathe once real nice copy of a SB. It was cold has hell and
nothing moved, it had been sitting for years. I brought it in my shop let
it worm up for a day and it moved ok them a good cleaning and some fresh
oil it was fine. Some of that old oil will get real thick in the cold,
and it sure has been a cold december. I am dreading picking up 2 Sheldon
lathes next week, things just seem to break much faster in the cold.
"Brian Lawson" wrote in message
...

Hey William,

Well, first off, get it in out of the cold. There is a good chance
that the casting has shrunk slightly and is therefore tight. When
cold, everything is tougher to work on, and has greater risk of
breaking if you force anything.

When you do move it into a warmer place, blow some dry heat over it,
and keep it under constant air circulation for at least a day until it
warms up to room temperature so it won't rust from the condensation
formed when coming in from the cold. Be ready for that before
bringing it in.

As to "#3", I think would remove the barrel lock/clamp from the
tail-stock body and fill it with very light oil to soak for a while
and get as much in as you can. Then after it is all warmed up and
oil filled, I'd be tempted to put a clamp from the nose of the
tail-stock barrel to the center of the handwheel and try to bring the
barrel back into the thread. Make EVERY effort NOT to push/pull on
that live center though, even if you have to make some sort of clamp
arrangement to push only on the quill. And do what-ever it takes to
be sure you are pulling "straight back" and no chance of pulling
off-center on the quill to prevent it galling and possibly cracking
the bore/casting.

Take care.

Good Luck. It's not a bad looking machine at all!!

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 22:34:52 GMT, "William Wixon"
wrote:


Hi,
i have a few questions if anyone out there would mind taking the time to
answer. (question number 3. below is most important) i finally acquired
a
lathe (been wishing i had one since metal shop in high school, '74/'77)

1. wondering if there might possibly be somewhere on the web where i
could download a owner/operator manual.

2. if any of you guys know what kind of lathe it is (wondering if it
was
specifically designed/manufactured for cutting screw threads, based on
the
cryptic numbers on the bronze tag in picture "lathe7") all i can find on
it
as to an indication to who manufactured it and/or a "brand" name are the
bronze tag on the headstock, says "The Seneca Falls Mfg. Co. Makers
Seneca
Falls, N.Y." (same words cast into the legs) and in the casting on the
bed
"Star" (and there's some patent numbers and dates). you can just barely
see
the word "Star" in pic "lathe2".

it was kinda rusted tight, i sprayed it all over with WD-40 and
worked
the various levers and handles. the tailstock ram handle was so tight i
could hardly turn it. i kept spraying it and working it. i figured if
i
turned it far enough the ram would come off the screw and out of the
tailstock. it finally came off the end of the screw but then i couldn't
get
it out and couldn't get it threaded back on either! i'm afraid to
damage it
by forcing it, so...

3. my main, most important question, wondering if anyone knows how to
either get it out/off completely or get it screwed back on to the turn
screw
handle (photo "lathe4") there's a blind hole on the underside of the
decorative turning on the end of the tailstock (photo "lathe5"), i'm
wondering if maybe that's a hole for a spanner wrench to turn off that
end
(like a threaded nut). i can't tell if that decorative turning is a
removable threaded "nut" or if it's an integral part of the casting.

(i tried to get the ram back on the thread by first, tapping gently
the
tip of the live dead center (with a chunk of lead) while turning the
handle,
that didn't work, then i put a long pipe clamp on it (forcing the live
dead
center (and ram) back in towards the crank turn handle) and tightened it
while turning the handle and that didn't work either.)

4. it has three flat belt step pulleys. i'd like to see if i can
improve upon the system the previous owner put together to transmit
power to
the lathe. the motor unit hangs off the back of the lathe and is so
heavy
it almost wants to tip the lathe over backwards. i'm hoping i could
maybe
put together a simpler, much lighter motor mount/step pulley
arrangement,
*and* hang a newer more powerful motor on it, and maybe have the whole
shebang directly over the headstock instead of hanging off the back.
i'm
wondering, what are the most common "speeds" (at the chuck) for those
three
step pulleys. i'm hoping from there i could calculate the size the "v"
belt
pulleys i'll need from the motor to the step pulleys (large aluminum
pulley
in picture "lathe6") to end up with the correct speeds at the chuck.

5. too many questions all at once? if you're still with me, how
about
one more? the chart of numbers on the bronze tag, is that for cutting
screw
threads? the lathe came with several gears, i'm wondering if that chart
tells which gear to use to get how ever many threads per inch, but, the
gears don't have any corresponding numbers from the chart, they have a
code
number cast in them and a number saying how many teeth are on the gear
but
as far as i can tell no number that matches up to any numbers on the
chart.

the guys i got the lathe from said, kind of under their breath, that
this
lathe is next-to-worthless, wondering if anyone here could confirm that
assessment.

http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe1.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe2.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe3.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe4.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe5.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe6.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe7.jpg

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 22:34:52 GMT, "William Wixon"
wrote:

Hi,
i have a few questions if anyone out there would mind taking the time to
answer. (question number 3. below is most important) i finally acquired a
lathe (been wishing i had one since metal shop in high school, '74/'77)

1. wondering if there might possibly be somewhere on the web where i
could download a owner/operator manual.

2. if any of you guys know what kind of lathe it is (wondering if it was
specifically designed/manufactured for cutting screw threads, based on the
cryptic numbers on the bronze tag in picture "lathe7") all i can find on it
as to an indication to who manufactured it and/or a "brand" name are the
bronze tag on the headstock, says "The Seneca Falls Mfg. Co. Makers Seneca
Falls, N.Y." (same words cast into the legs) and in the casting on the bed
"Star" (and there's some patent numbers and dates). you can just barely see
the word "Star" in pic "lathe2".

it was kinda rusted tight, i sprayed it all over with WD-40 and worked
the various levers and handles. the tailstock ram handle was so tight i
could hardly turn it. i kept spraying it and working it. i figured if i
turned it far enough the ram would come off the screw and out of the
tailstock. it finally came off the end of the screw but then i couldn't get
it out and couldn't get it threaded back on either! i'm afraid to damage it
by forcing it, so...

3. my main, most important question, wondering if anyone knows how to
either get it out/off completely or get it screwed back on to the turn screw
handle (photo "lathe4") there's a blind hole on the underside of the
decorative turning on the end of the tailstock (photo "lathe5"), i'm
wondering if maybe that's a hole for a spanner wrench to turn off that end
(like a threaded nut). i can't tell if that decorative turning is a
removable threaded "nut" or if it's an integral part of the casting.

(i tried to get the ram back on the thread by first, tapping gently the
tip of the live dead center (with a chunk of lead) while turning the handle,
that didn't work, then i put a long pipe clamp on it (forcing the live dead
center (and ram) back in towards the crank turn handle) and tightened it
while turning the handle and that didn't work either.)

4. it has three flat belt step pulleys. i'd like to see if i can
improve upon the system the previous owner put together to transmit power to
the lathe. the motor unit hangs off the back of the lathe and is so heavy
it almost wants to tip the lathe over backwards. i'm hoping i could maybe
put together a simpler, much lighter motor mount/step pulley arrangement,
*and* hang a newer more powerful motor on it, and maybe have the whole
shebang directly over the headstock instead of hanging off the back. i'm
wondering, what are the most common "speeds" (at the chuck) for those three
step pulleys. i'm hoping from there i could calculate the size the "v" belt
pulleys i'll need from the motor to the step pulleys (large aluminum pulley
in picture "lathe6") to end up with the correct speeds at the chuck.

5. too many questions all at once? if you're still with me, how about
one more? the chart of numbers on the bronze tag, is that for cutting screw
threads? the lathe came with several gears, i'm wondering if that chart
tells which gear to use to get how ever many threads per inch, but, the
gears don't have any corresponding numbers from the chart, they have a code
number cast in them and a number saying how many teeth are on the gear but
as far as i can tell no number that matches up to any numbers on the chart.

the guys i got the lathe from said, kind of under their breath, that this
lathe is next-to-worthless, wondering if anyone here could confirm that
assessment.

http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe1.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe2.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe3.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe4.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe5.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe6.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe7.jpg

1: Get the lathe in a warm place and give it a day to thoroughly
warm up

2: Give the WD-40 to someone you don't like. Try Kroil or ATF on
the tailstock, give it a day or two to wick in.

3: If it's still stuck, pull the whole tailstock, immerse it in a
bucket of kerosene with some ATF mixed in, let it soak for a few days.

The thing with the blind hole is not an integral part of the casting.
It's probably threaded, but it might have had threadlocker applied to
it. Apply gentle heat , say up to about spit-sizzle temp and see if
that helps.

According to Adam Smith :
I didn't make myself clear in the earlier post: range from 20-1200, takes
into consideration both the lathes back gear, and an additional countershaft
and/or speed reducer. The countershaft will have a cone pulley just like the
one on the lathe but backwards, so
large drives small, medium drives medium, and small drives large. 20 rpm
would be with speed reduction, belt on small driver large driven pulleys,
and back gears engaged. 1200 would be without back gear engaged, and with
large driving small.

I'll post a picture of the Seneca speed reducer, when I get a chance.

It looks to me as though he already has it -- shown in the photo
referenced below.

http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe6.jpg

Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Whoops. Missed that one. Well that is a countershaft all right, though it
doen't look anything like the Seneca speed reducer that came with my Seneca
lathe. Looks like the driver pulley will do the job, though.

Adam

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
ervers.com...
According to Adam Smith :
I didn't make myself clear in the earlier post: range from 20-1200, takes
into consideration both the lathes back gear, and an additional
countershaft
and/or speed reducer. The countershaft will have a cone pulley just like
the
one on the lathe but backwards, so
large drives small, medium drives medium, and small drives large. 20 rpm
would be with speed reduction, belt on small driver large driven pulleys,
and back gears engaged. 1200 would be without back gear engaged, and with
large driving small.

I'll post a picture of the Seneca speed reducer, when I get a chance.

It looks to me as though he already has it -- shown in the photo
referenced below.

http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe6.jpg

Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

lengthy responses below...


"William Wixon" wrote in message
...
Hi,
i have a few questions if anyone out there would mind taking the time to

-snip-

thanks for everyone's help.

Jon, i think perhaps the cold and the old dried up (whale) (i'm kidding)
oil was what was making the tailstock ram SO hard to turn. after soaking
for a day with WD-40 (right now i don't have any ready sources for Kroil) it
started to loosen up. i'm embarrassed to admit, the problem was, i was
turning the screw the WRONG way, it's a left hand thread, that's why i
couldn't get it threaded back on. red faced (eventually i figured it
out)

Gerald, thanks, yeah, the clamping screw was loose. actually i was afraid
the clamping screw was seized but turns out that wasn't what the problem
was.

Gary, thanks, that was an AWESOME link. i was very surprised to be getting
info from England!! I laughed out loud at your comment, "...the white
stuff". we haven't had a LOT here in southern n.y. state but it's been on
the ground for weeks and, i, for one, am SICK of it.

Nick, thanks for the comments. wait till you see the photos after i'm done
cleaning it up! hey, and, btw, i was completely and totally blown away with
the pics of your engines.

Rex, thanks for the link, haven't gotten a chance to check it out yet
though. thanks for the suggestions. I'd have to drive 50 miles (RT) to get
some Kroil so for now it's WD-40. i cleaned up the headstock, scraped the
paint off, oiled moving parts, wirebrushed paint and moving parts. it has
some pretty bronze bearings, steel wooled them. i'm scraping the (peeling,
flaking) paint off the bed and legs. not sure if i'll paint it dark blue
(original color) or leave it bare iron. the reduction pulleys are not
factory, they're very homebrew, and very ugly (to my tastes), they've got to
go. i have a small shop and i'm going to need to get this thing as close to
the wall as possible, so i really do want to redesign the drive mechanism.
as i'm cleaning it up it is growing on me. it wasn't really in the snow.
actually i trundled this 350 pound thing out of my shop and onto my driveway
so i could get a clear picture for you guys. i wanted to get a contrasting
background for a clear picture (w/o all the jumble inside the shop) and then
i trundled it back into the barn by myself.

Brian, i think what was holding up the tailstock ram was just that it had
old dried gummy oil on/in it. (and couldn't get the ram to go back in
because i was turning the screw handle the wrong way cringe) there seems
to be (probably for what you guys are used to) a considerable amount of slop
in all the moving parts, i don't think anything was seized by the cold. it
was already covered with rust from condensation from being stored in a
trailer for the past 2 or 3 years. i stood the tailstock on end (both ends)
and kept spraying WD-40 so it would seep down into the mechanism. thanks
for the reminder to not push the tailstock barrel back in at an angle. my
next question to you (guys) was "how in the heck do i get the live dead
center morse taper out?!?!" i assumed the rust would've locked that sucker
in. another lathe i've used had an arrangement where you turned the ram all
the way in and at the bottom of it's travel it would push the taper out
automatically. this lathe wasn't doing that. bummer! i got a piece of
scrap steel and used it to tap on the back of the live dead center with a
hammer. was SO glad when the taper popped out without very much tapping.

Wayne, thanks for the tips. i think it was just gummed up with old oil.

Roy, lol your comments. (i don't want to offend or insult you but i can't
figure out why people live in canada (or russia) i used to think it was to
get away from predators but that was a long time ago.) ;-) (just joking)
(i'm sure it's a great place to live.)

Bob, thanks for the suggestions. so far the WD-40 is doing ok. i was here
during a lengthy discussion about WD-40, Kroil, etc. i dreaded even
mentioning that i was using WD-40 for fear of incurring the wrath of the
group. i'll get some Kroil and then i'll feel like i'm a real metalworker
(used to know a machinist, he had Kroil, i wanted some but he wouldn't let
me know where he got it, i figured it was some secret machinist's Kroil
society). my workshop has intermittent heat, wood stove, only when i'm out
there, so that lathe is going to have to learn to live with it. was using a
knotted cup brush on my makita angle grinder, works pretty good, scary
though when i find wires in my jacket and stuck in my forearms etc. this
will be the second time i took this particular lathe apart. was donated (by
the widow) to (my) an eaa chapter i used to belong to, i dismantled it and
carried it up a rickety set of cellar stairs then reassembled it in the
club's clubhouse, so i'm gaining (a lot of) familiarity with it. i'm
actually starting to like it a lot. when i loaded it off my truck this time
i was like "why did i get this thing?!" but now i'm becoming attached to
it. as for the wiring, i want to do away with the drive unit (except the
flat belt step pulleys) entirely.

Adam, thanks for taking the time to respond. good luck to you with your new
acquisition. yeah, back gears, i'm just wondering what the speed step
pulleys should be turning at without the complication of the back gears
(need to know how big the large "v" belt pulley should be.) would LOVE to
see your pictures of your original Seneca speed reducer.

Don, yeah, it has a speed reducer, but it's not stock, it's cobbed together
with 2 x 4's, etc. ugly. Don, why do you have your name written "DoN" in
your sig line?

Adam, i'm going to take the step pulley off the ugly heavy drive unit and
put together something lighter and prettier, but keeping/using the step
pulley. want to get a real "v" belt sheave (is that the correct
terminology?) to go on the shaft with the step pulleys. the large
(aluminum) sheave i have now doesn't have a "v" groove, it's a narrow *flat*
belt sheave.

Don, thanks for the tips. i don't like having a fire in my wood stove
unattended, so i can't do the warm it up for a day thing. i'm going to get
some Kroil someday! i liked the soak-in-a-bucket-of-kerosene idea but
luckily it turned out i didn't have to. i'd like to someday see if i can
get that decorative turning off the end of the tailstock so i can clean up
the rusty sludge inside, but for now it's working and i have to focus on
designing/building a new power transmission set up.

thanks everybody!

i'm hoping to post some pics after i'm done cleaning it up. it's starting
to look pretty nice. glad i got it. well.... i hope that after spending
hours and hours cleaning/fixing it up when i go to use it i won't discover
it has some horrible fatal flaw.


b.w.

In article , William Wixon says...

http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe1.jpg

OK, you have inherited a Seneca Falls Star lathe. Those are nice
machines but there are a few things you should be aware of:

1) I don't think the crossfeed screw on that machine has a micrometer
dial on it, the kind with divisions. Check to see.

2) Be very careful about one particular issue with it:

DO NOT ENGAGE THE HALF NUTS AND THE CARRIAGE FEED AT THE SAME TIME!

Most modern machines have a lockout to prevent this, but this machine
is old enough to allow that to happen. If you are driving the
leadscrew and you do that, it will blow up something in the geartrain
because it basically locks the leadscrew solid.

The first issue (if the machine has no micrometer dial) is tolerably
easy to fix, you can simply replace the existing leadscrew and nut
on the slide, with a modern type with a dial. You could also simply
install a dial indicator on the cross slide.

They are not bad machines, mostly they were designed to be foot-treadle
powered and are found in place converted over to electric motor drive.
The bearings in the headstock are typically bronze and often need a bit
of TLC and shimming to get them to run nicely, but they do. The
spindle nose is a bit of an odd thread so be sure to keep any tooling
that came with the machine, no matter how crusty.

More photos of seneca falls star lathes:

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/_2000_retired_files/Seneca1.jpg

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/_2000_retired_files/Seneca2.jpg

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/_2000_retired_files/Seneca3.jpg

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/_2000_retired_files/Seneca4.jpg

The oilers on the heastock spindle are of course non-original, I put
those there. You can see there are a bunch of similarities between
yours and my lathes, and some differences too.

The biggest difference is, yours has a compound on top of the cross
slide. Mine was delivered without that. The overall carriage layout
is however pretty similar though, with some stylistic differences
between them. I suspect yours is a more modern version, the serial
number is stamped on the bed, right near the leadscrew bracket on
the tailstock end.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

What part of NY are you from? I live just over the line in CT
"William Wixon" wrote in message
news
lengthy responses below...


"William Wixon" wrote in message
...
Hi,
i have a few questions if anyone out there would mind taking the time to

-snip-

thanks for everyone's help.

Jon, i think perhaps the cold and the old dried up (whale) (i'm kidding)
oil was what was making the tailstock ram SO hard to turn. after soaking
for a day with WD-40 (right now i don't have any ready sources for Kroil)
it started to loosen up. i'm embarrassed to admit, the problem was, i was
turning the screw the WRONG way, it's a left hand thread, that's why i
couldn't get it threaded back on. red faced (eventually i figured it
out)

Gerald, thanks, yeah, the clamping screw was loose. actually i was afraid
the clamping screw was seized but turns out that wasn't what the problem
was.

Gary, thanks, that was an AWESOME link. i was very surprised to be getting
info from England!! I laughed out loud at your comment, "...the white
stuff". we haven't had a LOT here in southern n.y. state but it's been on
the ground for weeks and, i, for one, am SICK of it.

Nick, thanks for the comments. wait till you see the photos after i'm
done cleaning it up! hey, and, btw, i was completely and totally blown
away with the pics of your engines.

Rex, thanks for the link, haven't gotten a chance to check it out yet
though. thanks for the suggestions. I'd have to drive 50 miles (RT) to
get some Kroil so for now it's WD-40. i cleaned up the headstock, scraped
the paint off, oiled moving parts, wirebrushed paint and moving parts. it
has some pretty bronze bearings, steel wooled them. i'm scraping the
(peeling, flaking) paint off the bed and legs. not sure if i'll paint it
dark blue (original color) or leave it bare iron. the reduction pulleys
are not factory, they're very homebrew, and very ugly (to my tastes),
they've got to go. i have a small shop and i'm going to need to get this
thing as close to the wall as possible, so i really do want to redesign
the drive mechanism. as i'm cleaning it up it is growing on me. it wasn't
really in the snow. actually i trundled this 350 pound thing out of my
shop and onto my driveway so i could get a clear picture for you guys. i
wanted to get a contrasting background for a clear picture (w/o all the
jumble inside the shop) and then i trundled it back into the barn by
myself.

Brian, i think what was holding up the tailstock ram was just that it had
old dried gummy oil on/in it. (and couldn't get the ram to go back in
because i was turning the screw handle the wrong way cringe) there
seems to be (probably for what you guys are used to) a considerable amount
of slop in all the moving parts, i don't think anything was seized by the
cold. it was already covered with rust from condensation from being
stored in a trailer for the past 2 or 3 years. i stood the tailstock on
end (both ends) and kept spraying WD-40 so it would seep down into the
mechanism. thanks for the reminder to not push the tailstock barrel back
in at an angle. my next question to you (guys) was "how in the heck do i
get the live dead center morse taper out?!?!" i assumed the rust would've
locked that sucker in. another lathe i've used had an arrangement where
you turned the ram all the way in and at the bottom of it's travel it
would push the taper out automatically. this lathe wasn't doing that.
bummer! i got a piece of scrap steel and used it to tap on the back of
the live dead center with a hammer. was SO glad when the taper popped out
without very much tapping.

Wayne, thanks for the tips. i think it was just gummed up with old oil.

Roy, lol your comments. (i don't want to offend or insult you but i can't
figure out why people live in canada (or russia) i used to think it was
to get away from predators but that was a long time ago.) ;-) (just
joking) (i'm sure it's a great place to live.)

Bob, thanks for the suggestions. so far the WD-40 is doing ok. i was
here during a lengthy discussion about WD-40, Kroil, etc. i dreaded even
mentioning that i was using WD-40 for fear of incurring the wrath of the
group. i'll get some Kroil and then i'll feel like i'm a real metalworker
(used to know a machinist, he had Kroil, i wanted some but he wouldn't let
me know where he got it, i figured it was some secret machinist's Kroil
society). my workshop has intermittent heat, wood stove, only when i'm
out there, so that lathe is going to have to learn to live with it. was
using a knotted cup brush on my makita angle grinder, works pretty good,
scary though when i find wires in my jacket and stuck in my forearms etc.
this will be the second time i took this particular lathe apart. was
donated (by the widow) to (my) an eaa chapter i used to belong to, i
dismantled it and carried it up a rickety set of cellar stairs then
reassembled it in the club's clubhouse, so i'm gaining (a lot of)
familiarity with it. i'm actually starting to like it a lot. when i
loaded it off my truck this time i was like "why did i get this thing?!"
but now i'm becoming attached to it. as for the wiring, i want to do away
with the drive unit (except the flat belt step pulleys) entirely.

Adam, thanks for taking the time to respond. good luck to you with your
new acquisition. yeah, back gears, i'm just wondering what the speed step
pulleys should be turning at without the complication of the back gears
(need to know how big the large "v" belt pulley should be.) would LOVE to
see your pictures of your original Seneca speed reducer.

Don, yeah, it has a speed reducer, but it's not stock, it's cobbed
together with 2 x 4's, etc. ugly. Don, why do you have your name written
"DoN" in your sig line?

Adam, i'm going to take the step pulley off the ugly heavy drive unit and
put together something lighter and prettier, but keeping/using the step
pulley. want to get a real "v" belt sheave (is that the correct
terminology?) to go on the shaft with the step pulleys. the large
(aluminum) sheave i have now doesn't have a "v" groove, it's a narrow
*flat* belt sheave.

Don, thanks for the tips. i don't like having a fire in my wood stove
unattended, so i can't do the warm it up for a day thing. i'm going to
get some Kroil someday! i liked the soak-in-a-bucket-of-kerosene idea but
luckily it turned out i didn't have to. i'd like to someday see if i can
get that decorative turning off the end of the tailstock so i can clean up
the rusty sludge inside, but for now it's working and i have to focus on
designing/building a new power transmission set up.

thanks everybody!

i'm hoping to post some pics after i'm done cleaning it up. it's starting
to look pretty nice. glad i got it. well.... i hope that after spending
hours and hours cleaning/fixing it up when i go to use it i won't discover
it has some horrible fatal flaw.


b.w.

On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 07:45:25 GMT, "William Wixon"
wrote:

i'll get some Kroil and then i'll feel like i'm a real metalworker
(used to know a machinist, he had Kroil, i wanted some but he wouldn't let
me know where he got it, i figured it was some secret machinist's Kroil
society).

http://www.kanolabs.com/

According to William Wixon :
lengthy responses below...


"William Wixon" wrote in message
...
Hi,
i have a few questions if anyone out there would mind taking the time to

-snip-

thanks for everyone's help.

[ ... ]

another lathe i've used had an arrangement where you turned the ram all
the way in and at the bottom of it's travel it would push the taper out
automatically. this lathe wasn't doing that. bummer! i got a piece of
scrap steel and used it to tap on the back of the live dead center with a
hammer. was SO glad when the taper popped out without very much tapping.

Does the tailstock ram have a slot in it which is exposed when
it is cranked far enough out? I can't see one in the photos, but there
may be one just not visible because of the angle. If there is, then a
tapered wedge called a "drill drift" is placed into the slot so it
engages the back of the taper and pops it out.

Yes -- normally, the end of the leadscrew bumps the back of the
taper to remove most things -- but sometimes a tool may have too short a
taper for this. I've made extensions on some live centers and such to
deal with this nuisance. A piece of brass can be turned to fit and will
do the job nicely.

[ ... ]

Bob, thanks for the suggestions. so far the WD-40 is doing ok. i was here
during a lengthy discussion about WD-40, Kroil, etc. i dreaded even
mentioning that i was using WD-40 for fear of incurring the wrath of the
group. i'll get some Kroil and then i'll feel like i'm a real metalworker
(used to know a machinist, he had Kroil, i wanted some but he wouldn't let
me know where he got it, i figured it was some secret machinist's Kroil
society).

The Kroil is a penetrating oil -- for getting things unstuck --
not for normal lubrication.

WD-40 will evaporate quickly, leaving no protection for your
machine's metal surfaces. It's real purpose is to absorb moisture and
carry it away -- not to stick around and protect things.

my workshop has intermittent heat, wood stove, only when i'm out
there, so that lathe is going to have to learn to live with it.

Get some "Vactra No. 2" waylube and use it to coat the ways and
other sliding surfaces of the machine. This will stick around and
protect your machine from the problems of thermal cycling, which causes
moisture to condense on the exposed metal.

[ ... ]

Don, yeah, it has a speed reducer, but it's not stock, it's cobbed together
with 2 x 4's, etc. ugly.

Maybe so -- but the casting with the motor mount and the pulley
should all be re-used. Note that it is designed to pivot, so the weight
of the motor keeps tension on the flat belt. You reach over the
headstock and pull the motor towards you to slack the belt to change it.

An alternative setup would be overhead shafts carrying the
pulley, with the belts running up -- as the machine was designed to use
originally. The casting with the pulleys and motor looks like a factory
design for adapting such a machine to a local motor, instead of overhead
shafts.

Don, why do you have your name written "DoN" in
your sig line?

Actully, it should be "DoN." (The period is part of it.) Shrink
the 'o', and expand the period a bit, and it looks like "D.N." (my
initials). It also can be read as my first name.

And -- since there are other "Don"s posting to the newsgroup, it
helps to keep track of who said what.

Adam, i'm going to take the step pulley off the ugly heavy drive unit and
put together something lighter and prettier, but keeping/using the step
pulley. want to get a real "v" belt sheave (is that the correct
terminology?) to go on the shaft with the step pulleys. the large
(aluminum) sheave i have now doesn't have a "v" groove, it's a narrow *flat*
belt sheave.

I'll bet that it will be driven nicely enough by the ID of a V
belt anyway.

Good Luck
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

I didn't think it even got down to 0F, figured 15 or 20 was as low as it
got there.

All one ups aside, working on cold equipment is a real pain. (in the
feet, the fingers, the back, and the will power to keep going back out
to the garage)

wayne mak wrote:
Well when its at 0 F thats cold enough to make things stick. I have NO
desire to subject myself to any colder than it gets here.
"RoyJ" wrote in message
ink.net...

Phtttt!!! It doesn't get COLD in your neck of the woods! Cool maybe.

Cold is when 30 weight oil congels and turns white. (About -20F) Cold is
when mild steel shatters rather than breaking (Around -40F) Cold is when
you can drive a semi truck across the temproary highway on 3' ice on the
lake (just don't follow another truck or the wave action will set up on
the lake underneath)

wayne mak wrote:


Just bringing it up to normal temp might fix the stuck parts. I bought a
Botsford lathe once real nice copy of a SB. It was cold has hell and
nothing moved, it had been sitting for years. I brought it in my shop let
it worm up for a day and it moved ok them a good cleaning and some fresh
oil it was fine. Some of that old oil will get real thick in the cold,
and it sure has been a cold december. I am dreading picking up 2 Sheldon
lathes next week, things just seem to break much faster in the cold.
"Brian Lawson" wrote in message
...


Hey William,

Well, first off, get it in out of the cold. There is a good chance
that the casting has shrunk slightly and is therefore tight. When
cold, everything is tougher to work on, and has greater risk of
breaking if you force anything.

When you do move it into a warmer place, blow some dry heat over it,
and keep it under constant air circulation for at least a day until it
warms up to room temperature so it won't rust from the condensation
formed when coming in from the cold. Be ready for that before
bringing it in.

As to "#3", I think would remove the barrel lock/clamp from the
tail-stock body and fill it with very light oil to soak for a while
and get as much in as you can. Then after it is all warmed up and
oil filled, I'd be tempted to put a clamp from the nose of the
tail-stock barrel to the center of the handwheel and try to bring the
barrel back into the thread. Make EVERY effort NOT to push/pull on
that live center though, even if you have to make some sort of clamp
arrangement to push only on the quill. And do what-ever it takes to
be sure you are pulling "straight back" and no chance of pulling
off-center on the quill to prevent it galling and possibly cracking
the bore/casting.

Take care.

Good Luck. It's not a bad looking machine at all!!

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 22:34:52 GMT, "William Wixon"
wrote:



Hi,
i have a few questions if anyone out there would mind taking the time to
answer. (question number 3. below is most important) i finally acquired
a
lathe (been wishing i had one since metal shop in high school, '74/'77)

1. wondering if there might possibly be somewhere on the web where i
could download a owner/operator manual.

2. if any of you guys know what kind of lathe it is (wondering if it
was
specifically designed/manufactured for cutting screw threads, based on
the
cryptic numbers on the bronze tag in picture "lathe7") all i can find on
it
as to an indication to who manufactured it and/or a "brand" name are the
bronze tag on the headstock, says "The Seneca Falls Mfg. Co. Makers
Seneca
Falls, N.Y." (same words cast into the legs) and in the casting on the
bed
"Star" (and there's some patent numbers and dates). you can just barely
see
the word "Star" in pic "lathe2".

it was kinda rusted tight, i sprayed it all over with WD-40 and
worked
the various levers and handles. the tailstock ram handle was so tight i
could hardly turn it. i kept spraying it and working it. i figured if
i
turned it far enough the ram would come off the screw and out of the
tailstock. it finally came off the end of the screw but then i couldn't
get
it out and couldn't get it threaded back on either! i'm afraid to
damage it
by forcing it, so...

3. my main, most important question, wondering if anyone knows how to
either get it out/off completely or get it screwed back on to the turn
screw
handle (photo "lathe4") there's a blind hole on the underside of the
decorative turning on the end of the tailstock (photo "lathe5"), i'm
wondering if maybe that's a hole for a spanner wrench to turn off that
end
(like a threaded nut). i can't tell if that decorative turning is a
removable threaded "nut" or if it's an integral part of the casting.

(i tried to get the ram back on the thread by first, tapping gently
the
tip of the live dead center (with a chunk of lead) while turning the
handle,
that didn't work, then i put a long pipe clamp on it (forcing the live
dead
center (and ram) back in towards the crank turn handle) and tightened it
while turning the handle and that didn't work either.)

4. it has three flat belt step pulleys. i'd like to see if i can
improve upon the system the previous owner put together to transmit
power to
the lathe. the motor unit hangs off the back of the lathe and is so
heavy
it almost wants to tip the lathe over backwards. i'm hoping i could
maybe
put together a simpler, much lighter motor mount/step pulley
arrangement,
*and* hang a newer more powerful motor on it, and maybe have the whole
shebang directly over the headstock instead of hanging off the back.
i'm
wondering, what are the most common "speeds" (at the chuck) for those
three
step pulleys. i'm hoping from there i could calculate the size the "v"
belt
pulleys i'll need from the motor to the step pulleys (large aluminum
pulley
in picture "lathe6") to end up with the correct speeds at the chuck.

5. too many questions all at once? if you're still with me, how
about
one more? the chart of numbers on the bronze tag, is that for cutting
screw
threads? the lathe came with several gears, i'm wondering if that chart
tells which gear to use to get how ever many threads per inch, but, the
gears don't have any corresponding numbers from the chart, they have a
code
number cast in them and a number saying how many teeth are on the gear
but
as far as i can tell no number that matches up to any numbers on the
chart.

the guys i got the lathe from said, kind of under their breath, that
this
lathe is next-to-worthless, wondering if anyone here could confirm that
assessment.

http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe1.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe2.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe3.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe4.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe5.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe6.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe7.jpg

I here you there, we stay above 20 most of the time but this december we
went below zero for many days. I am buying 2 sheldon lathes next week and
dred moving them, my backhoe is put away for the winter so its a real pain
to unload things. Its amazing how easy things get broke when you want to
move them along so you don't freeze your @$% off.
"RoyJ" wrote in message
nk.net...
I didn't think it even got down to 0F, figured 15 or 20 was as low as it
got there.

All one ups aside, working on cold equipment is a real pain. (in the feet,
the fingers, the back, and the will power to keep going back out to the
garage)

wayne mak wrote:
Well when its at 0 F thats cold enough to make things stick. I have NO
desire to subject myself to any colder than it gets here.
"RoyJ" wrote in message
ink.net...

Phtttt!!! It doesn't get COLD in your neck of the woods! Cool maybe.

Cold is when 30 weight oil congels and turns white. (About -20F) Cold is
when mild steel shatters rather than breaking (Around -40F) Cold is when
you can drive a semi truck across the temproary highway on 3' ice on the
lake (just don't follow another truck or the wave action will set up on
the lake underneath)

wayne mak wrote:


Just bringing it up to normal temp might fix the stuck parts. I bought a
Botsford lathe once real nice copy of a SB. It was cold has hell and
nothing moved, it had been sitting for years. I brought it in my shop
let it worm up for a day and it moved ok them a good cleaning and some
fresh oil it was fine. Some of that old oil will get real thick in the
cold, and it sure has been a cold december. I am dreading picking up 2
Sheldon lathes next week, things just seem to break much faster in the
cold.
"Brian Lawson" wrote in message
m...


Hey William,

Well, first off, get it in out of the cold. There is a good chance
that the casting has shrunk slightly and is therefore tight. When
cold, everything is tougher to work on, and has greater risk of
breaking if you force anything.

When you do move it into a warmer place, blow some dry heat over it,
and keep it under constant air circulation for at least a day until it
warms up to room temperature so it won't rust from the condensation
formed when coming in from the cold. Be ready for that before
bringing it in.

As to "#3", I think would remove the barrel lock/clamp from the
tail-stock body and fill it with very light oil to soak for a while
and get as much in as you can. Then after it is all warmed up and
oil filled, I'd be tempted to put a clamp from the nose of the
tail-stock barrel to the center of the handwheel and try to bring the
barrel back into the thread. Make EVERY effort NOT to push/pull on
that live center though, even if you have to make some sort of clamp
arrangement to push only on the quill. And do what-ever it takes to
be sure you are pulling "straight back" and no chance of pulling
off-center on the quill to prevent it galling and possibly cracking
the bore/casting.

Take care.

Good Luck. It's not a bad looking machine at all!!

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 22:34:52 GMT, "William Wixon"
wrote:



Hi,
i have a few questions if anyone out there would mind taking the time
to
answer. (question number 3. below is most important) i finally
acquired a
lathe (been wishing i had one since metal shop in high school,
'74/'77)

1. wondering if there might possibly be somewhere on the web where i
could download a owner/operator manual.

2. if any of you guys know what kind of lathe it is (wondering if it
was
specifically designed/manufactured for cutting screw threads, based on
the
cryptic numbers on the bronze tag in picture "lathe7") all i can find
on it
as to an indication to who manufactured it and/or a "brand" name are
the
bronze tag on the headstock, says "The Seneca Falls Mfg. Co. Makers
Seneca
Falls, N.Y." (same words cast into the legs) and in the casting on the
bed
"Star" (and there's some patent numbers and dates). you can just
barely see
the word "Star" in pic "lathe2".

it was kinda rusted tight, i sprayed it all over with WD-40 and
worked
the various levers and handles. the tailstock ram handle was so tight
i
could hardly turn it. i kept spraying it and working it. i figured
if i
turned it far enough the ram would come off the screw and out of the
tailstock. it finally came off the end of the screw but then i
couldn't get
it out and couldn't get it threaded back on either! i'm afraid to
damage it
by forcing it, so...

3. my main, most important question, wondering if anyone knows how
to
either get it out/off completely or get it screwed back on to the turn
screw
handle (photo "lathe4") there's a blind hole on the underside of the
decorative turning on the end of the tailstock (photo "lathe5"), i'm
wondering if maybe that's a hole for a spanner wrench to turn off that
end
(like a threaded nut). i can't tell if that decorative turning is a
removable threaded "nut" or if it's an integral part of the casting.

(i tried to get the ram back on the thread by first, tapping gently
the
tip of the live dead center (with a chunk of lead) while turning the
handle,
that didn't work, then i put a long pipe clamp on it (forcing the live
dead
center (and ram) back in towards the crank turn handle) and tightened
it
while turning the handle and that didn't work either.)

4. it has three flat belt step pulleys. i'd like to see if i can
improve upon the system the previous owner put together to transmit
power to
the lathe. the motor unit hangs off the back of the lathe and is so
heavy
it almost wants to tip the lathe over backwards. i'm hoping i could
maybe
put together a simpler, much lighter motor mount/step pulley
arrangement,
*and* hang a newer more powerful motor on it, and maybe have the whole
shebang directly over the headstock instead of hanging off the back.
i'm
wondering, what are the most common "speeds" (at the chuck) for those
three
step pulleys. i'm hoping from there i could calculate the size the
"v" belt
pulleys i'll need from the motor to the step pulleys (large aluminum
pulley
in picture "lathe6") to end up with the correct speeds at the chuck.

5. too many questions all at once? if you're still with me, how
about
one more? the chart of numbers on the bronze tag, is that for cutting
screw
threads? the lathe came with several gears, i'm wondering if that
chart
tells which gear to use to get how ever many threads per inch, but,
the
gears don't have any corresponding numbers from the chart, they have a
code
number cast in them and a number saying how many teeth are on the gear
but
as far as i can tell no number that matches up to any numbers on the
chart.

the guys i got the lathe from said, kind of under their breath, that
this
lathe is next-to-worthless, wondering if anyone here could confirm
that
assessment.

http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe1.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe2.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe3.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe4.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe5.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe6.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe7.jpg

Brian Lawson wrote:
Hey William,

Well, first off, get it in out of the cold. There is a good chance
that the casting has shrunk slightly and is therefore tight. When
cold, everything is tougher to work on, and has greater risk of
breaking if you force anything.

When you do move it into a warmer place, blow some dry heat over it,
and keep it under constant air circulation for at least a day until it
warms up to room temperature so it won't rust from the condensation
formed when coming in from the cold. Be ready for that before
bringing it in.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Excellent advisory.
At Babin Machine Tools we keep the rebuilting faculty at consistantly
68 degree temperature. I learned this during my apprenticeship at
Moore in the precision filling and painting department many years ago.
SWMBO HILde and I spent our honeysmoon in Seneca Falls and conceived
our first child there many only years ago. Your machine is older than
that. Not modern to high speed mul;titasker turnings.
You have a good lather there and the drive argament looks good. Don't
get sidwedged to fix what's too already working.
Happy Hollentdays!
Al Babin & Sons
ISO 9000 comliant job shop, rebuilting and refreshments to machinery
tools, k-mART CASGHIER 312 BRISTOL, CUSTOM POOL CUES AND COVERS TO KEEP
THE LEAVES OUT

On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 07:45:25 GMT, "William Wixon"
wrote:

lengthy responses below...


Roy, lol your comments. (i don't want to offend or insult you but i can't
figure out why people live in canada (or russia) i used to think it was to
get away from predators but that was a long time ago.) ;-) (just joking)
(i'm sure it's a great place to live.)

I live here because I have yet to find a better place - particularly
to the south
Bob, thanks for the suggestions. so far the WD-40 is doing ok. i was here
during a lengthy discussion about WD-40, Kroil, etc. i dreaded even
mentioning that i was using WD-40 for fear of incurring the wrath of the
group.
Ed's Red, or even straight ATF would be better


Don, yeah, it has a speed reducer, but it's not stock, it's cobbed together
with 2 x 4's, etc. ugly.
In principal this looks much like the drive on my SB 9 A - it does
the job

Adam, i'm going to take the step pulley off the ugly heavy drive unit and
put together something lighter and prettier, but keeping/using the step
pulley. want to get a real "v" belt sheave (is that the correct
terminology?) to go on the shaft with the step pulleys. the large
(aluminum) sheave i have now doesn't have a "v" groove, it's a narrow *flat*
belt sheave.
Flat belts are good even if they don't look modern

i'm hoping to post some pics after i'm done cleaning it up. it's starting
to look pretty nice. glad i got it. well.... i hope that after spending
hours and hours cleaning/fixing it up when i go to use it i won't discover
it has some horrible fatal flaw.


b.w.


Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 15:51:02 -0500, "wayne mak"
wrote:

I here you there, we stay above 20 most of the time but this december we
went below zero for many days. I am buying 2 sheldon lathes next week and
dred moving them, my backhoe is put away for the winter so its a real pain
to unload things. Its amazing how easy things get broke when you want to
move them along so you don't freeze your @$% off.

It was 80F here Friday, and about 75F Saturday, with a little breeze.

The fog was pretty thick though at night coming in from L.A. 1.5
Stripe.

27 miles took me about an hour and a half, give or take.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

I feel real bad for you
I have been in my garage (not my shop) for over a month in the evenings
using a unisaw to make cabinets, you just can't get that slab of cast iron
to warm up. here is a link to the caninets, Merry Christmas to my wife.

http://www.motherearthrecycling.net/cabinet/cabinet.htm

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 15:51:02 -0500, "wayne mak"
wrote:

I here you there, we stay above 20 most of the time but this december we
went below zero for many days. I am buying 2 sheldon lathes next week and
dred moving them, my backhoe is put away for the winter so its a real pain
to unload things. Its amazing how easy things get broke when you want to
move them along so you don't freeze your @$% off.

It was 80F here Friday, and about 75F Saturday, with a little breeze.

The fog was pretty thick though at night coming in from L.A. 1.5
Stripe.

27 miles took me about an hour and a half, give or take.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Hi Jim, thanks for your reply.

(my responses below...)


"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , William Wixon says...

http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe1.jpg

OK, you have inherited a Seneca Falls Star lathe. Those are nice
machines but there are a few things you should be aware of:

1) I don't think the crossfeed screw on that machine has a micrometer
dial on it, the kind with divisions. Check to see.

this lathe does have a micrometer dial on the crossfeed whatchamacallit.


2) Be very careful about one particular issue with it:

DO NOT ENGAGE THE HALF NUTS AND THE CARRIAGE FEED AT THE SAME TIME!

you know, i think this has already been to this lathe. the levers and
handles on the "saddle"(?) all behave oddly and one of the bolts holding one
of the gears (inside) wobbles when the handles are turned back and forth.



Most modern machines have a lockout to prevent this, but this machine
is old enough to allow that to happen. If you are driving the
leadscrew and you do that, it will blow up something in the geartrain
because it basically locks the leadscrew solid.

thanks very much for hte words of warning.


The first issue (if the machine has no micrometer dial) is tolerably
easy to fix, you can simply replace the existing leadscrew and nut
on the slide, with a modern type with a dial. You could also simply
install a dial indicator on the cross slide.

They are not bad machines, mostly they were designed to be foot-treadle

i was astounded when i saw the pictures (w/ treadles) of it in the link Gary
Owens provided earlier in this thread.
http://www.lathes.co.uk/senecafalls/index.html
(sad thing, after seeing those pictures i started to have a very faint vague
recollection i've seen those treadle pedals somewhere before but can't place
where. i'm afraid there's a possibility that MAYBE i saw the treadle pedals
somewhere in the basement of the house where i got the lathe. got the lathe
from the widow of a guy who used to belong to a eaa chapter i belonged to.
she donated the lathe. she didn't even go down into teh basement with me
when i went to pick it up to show me what's what. i collected up everything
i could see that wsa obviously belonging to the lathe in the general area
that the lathe occupied (in the crowded and disorganized basement) and may
have seen the treadle pedals somewhere down there but, and i'm only guessing
that this is what happened, it was a while ago, disregarded them as
belonging to the lathe. that would be SAD, because i'm imagining the family
of the lady (she died not very long after i picked up the lathe) rented a
dumpster and loaded all the "junk" in teh basement into it. sad that the
original parts of this lathe got seperated from it!


powered and are found in place converted over to electric motor drive.
The bearings in the headstock are typically bronze and often need a bit

the headstock bearings in this lathe are bronze. i shined them up with
steel wool. look nice. thing is though, between the chuck and headstock
someone chopped off the bronze and put in a (ball?) thrust bearing (or what
i assume is a thrust bearing).

of TLC and shimming to get them to run nicely, but they do. The

when i opened up the caps on the bearings there were paper shims in there.
i'm thinking i'm going to cut up an aluminum soda can and use it to shim the
bearings.

spindle nose is a bit of an odd thread so be sure to keep any tooling
that came with the machine, no matter how crusty.

thanks for the heads up.



More photos of seneca falls star lathes:

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/_2000_retired_files/Seneca1.jpg

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/_2000_retired_files/Seneca2.jpg

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/_2000_retired_files/Seneca3.jpg

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/_2000_retired_files/Seneca4.jpg

The oilers on the heastock spindle are of course non-original, I put
those there. You can see there are a bunch of similarities between
yours and my lathes, and some differences too.

wow! cool photos! thanks for posting the links!
i don't know why it didn't occur to me until long after my original post but
i finally went out and did some searches on the web and found some other
links. i didn't bookmark them so i have to go back to find them but if you
don't already know about them i'll find them and post them here.



The biggest difference is, yours has a compound on top of the cross
slide. Mine was delivered without that. The overall carriage layout
is however pretty similar though, with some stylistic differences
between them. I suspect yours is a more modern version, the serial
number is stamped on the bed, right near the leadscrew bracket on
the tailstock end.

after wiping off the crud i finally noticed the serial numbers stamped on
the bed, like you said. serial number 4793. cast into the bed are dates
1885, 1889, 1895, 1896, and last Apr. 14, 1896. i would like to know about
when this lathe was made.



Jim



thanks.

b.w.

"Gerald Miller" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 07:45:25 GMT, "William Wixon"
wrote:


-snip-


pulley. want to get a real "v" belt sheave (is that the correct
terminology?) to go on the shaft with the step pulleys. the large
(aluminum) sheave i have now doesn't have a "v" groove, it's a narrow
*flat*
belt sheave.

Flat belts are good even if they don't look modern


thanks. my intent is to go to a power transmission shop and get a
(contiuous) reinforced rubber flat belt to put on the step pulleys (instead
of the laced leather belt) i am assuming the rubber can transmit more power
than the leather. (and look cool too)

-snip-

b.w.

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
rvers.com...

-snip-


Does the tailstock ram have a slot in it which is exposed when
it is cranked far enough out? I can't see one in the photos, but there
may be one just not visible because of the angle. If there is, then a
tapered wedge called a "drill drift" is placed into the slot so it
engages the back of the taper and pops it out.

thanks, this tailstock ram doesn't have one of those slots. (am familiar w/
that, my drill press has one)


Yes -- normally, the end of the leadscrew bumps the back of the
taper to remove most things -- but sometimes a tool may have too short a
taper for this. I've made extensions on some live centers and such to
deal with this nuisance. A piece of brass can be turned to fit and will
do the job nicely.


huh! it feels like MAYBE the screw is just BARELY touching the back of the
taper. i'll have to do some experimenting. thanks for the tip!
(pretty sure i read at one of the various websites about Star lathes that
they do in fact have "self ejecting whatchamacallits" on their tailstocks)



The Kroil is a penetrating oil -- for getting things unstuck --
not for normal lubrication.

WD-40 will evaporate quickly, leaving no protection for your
machine's metal surfaces. It's real purpose is to absorb moisture and
carry it away -- not to stick around and protect things.


thanks. picked up some PB Blaster at the hardware store last night. am
feeling like i don't want to spend $15 for a can of Kroil. (i was figuring
the Kroil/WD-40 thing was just marketing :-) reminds me of a line from
"naked lunch" how people think exterminator applied insecticides are more
effective if they smell bad, Kroil smells worse than WD-40 hence it works
better. :-) was surprised PB Blaster is orange! figured that's just
marketing too. i thought they say WD-40 "displaces" moisture.)
(i'm teasing.) ( i can't be sure but it does seem as if the PB blaster does
work better than WD-40)



Get some "Vactra No. 2" waylube and use it to coat the ways and
other sliding surfaces of the machine. This will stick around and
protect your machine from the problems of thermal cycling, which causes
moisture to condense on the exposed metal.


thanks for the tip.


Maybe so -- but the casting with the motor mount and the pulley
should all be re-used. Note that it is designed to pivot, so the weight
of the motor keeps tension on the flat belt. You reach over the
headstock and pull the motor towards you to slack the belt to change it.

thanks. that casting is unnecessarily heavy, would like to use something
lighter. some of my other equipment use the same belt-tension arrangement
(weight of motor keeps tension on the belt)


An alternative setup would be overhead shafts carrying the
pulley, with the belts running up -- as the machine was designed to use

did you see the photos in the link posted by Gary Owens? originally this
lathe was treadle powered (wow). surprising that the belt actually went
down!! http://www.lathes.co.uk/senecafalls/page7.html this lathe has the
spaces in the legs for the treadle pivot and the holes for the flywheel
shaft. guess they had some spry and wiry machinists in the old days huh?


originally. The casting with the pulleys and motor looks like a factory
design for adapting such a machine to a local motor, instead of overhead
shafts.

to me it seems as if the casting was made by a different manufacturer at a
later date and cobbed on, the diameters of the step pulleys aren't the same
as the diameters of the step pulleys on the lathe.




Actully, it should be "DoN." (The period is part of it.) Shrink
the 'o', and expand the period a bit, and it looks like "D.N." (my
initials). It also can be read as my first name.

:-) oh. just curious.




-snip-

I'll bet that it will be driven nicely enough by the ID of a V
belt anyway.

:-) probably. would like to get a nice (spoked) "v" belt pulley anyhow.


Good Luck
DoN.

thanks!

b.w.

In article , William Wixon says...

after wiping off the crud i finally noticed the serial numbers stamped on
the bed, like you said. serial number 4793. cast into the bed are dates
1885, 1889, 1895, 1896, and last Apr. 14, 1896. i would like to know about
when this lathe was made.

Probably sometime after mine was made, as the S/N on it is 2537.

One would also suspect yours is younger based on the micrometer
dial, and the more modern-looking controls and handles on it.

You probably should replace the paper shims in the headstock
with metal ones, if it's like mine they will be quite narrow.
I seem to recall the shims were about 1/8 inch wide by an inch
or so long, I stuck them on with grease to be sure they would
not shift and wind up between the spindle and the bronze
bearing when assembling.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 20:00:34 +0000, (DoN.
Nichols) wrote:

The Kroil is a penetrating oil -- for getting things unstuck --
not for normal lubrication.

That's it's primary use, but (very unlike WD-40), it does lubricate.
Air tools absolutely love it.

WD-40 will evaporate quickly, leaving no protection for your
machine's metal surfaces. It's real purpose is to absorb moisture and
carry it away -- not to stick around and protect things.

Yes, if it's wiped away after use. Otherwise it keeps it right there
in the neighborhood. The best use for WD-40 is for juicing crappie
lures. I don't know why it works, but it sure does.

Don Foreman wrote:
The best use for WD-40 is for juicing crappie
lures. I don't know why it works, but it sure does.

Could you elaborate on that?
You mean spraying WD40 on, say, a silver spoon lure makes it more
attractive to fish?

On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 09:28:47 -0600, Rex B
wrote:


Don Foreman wrote:
The best use for WD-40 is for juicing crappie
lures. I don't know why it works, but it sure does.

Could you elaborate on that?
You mean spraying WD40 on, say, a silver spoon lure makes it more
attractive to fish?

Yup..particularly those little crappie rigs and rubber worms. Catfish
are also attracted to it.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner