A DIY & home improvement forum. DIYbanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » DIYbanter forum » Do - it - Yourself » Metalworking
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

Initial fill of new Propane tank fact or fiction on purge needed



 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old December 18th 03, 01:18 AM
Roy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Initial fill of new Propane tank fact or fiction on purge needed

Just what is involved with filling a new propane tank. I just bought a
brand new 100# tank. Took it to a gas supplier to get filled, and they
want a $25.00 initial fee supposedly to purge it..........what gives.
If its empty its empty. Its got the standard type of valve (OPD not
required on a 100# cylinder) so it can be opened and any air inside
can be vented to the atmosphere. Am I missing something here? Called
two others and they also said the tank needs to be purged since its
new.........I have bought new 20# and never had to have them purged .
I smell a rip off for some reason.

Maybe I just need to transfer some gas to give it a used smell into
this new cylinder and then act like its been filled before.
Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Opinions expressed are those of my wifes,
I had no input whatsoever.
Remove "nospam" from email addy.
Ads
  #2  
Old December 18th 03, 01:28 AM
Harold & Susan Vordos
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Initial fill of new Propane tank fact or fiction on purge needed


"Roy" wrote in message
...
Just what is involved with filling a new propane tank. I just bought a
brand new 100# tank. Took it to a gas supplier to get filled, and they
want a $25.00 initial fee supposedly to purge it..........what gives.
If its empty its empty. Its got the standard type of valve (OPD not
required on a 100# cylinder) so it can be opened and any air inside
can be vented to the atmosphere. Am I missing something here? Called
two others and they also said the tank needs to be purged since its
new.........I have bought new 20# and never had to have them purged .
I smell a rip off for some reason.


Have you considered the explosive potential of mixing propane with the air
(oxygen) contained within the tank? Once the tank has been purged, it
should be free of oxygen, which is the chief reason for purging them
originally. You dodged a bullet if you didn't have other tanks purged.

Harold


  #3  
Old December 18th 03, 01:34 AM
lane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Initial fill of new Propane tank fact or fiction on purge needed


"Roy" wrote in message
...
Just what is involved with filling a new propane tank. I just bought a
brand new 100# tank. Took it to a gas supplier to get filled, and they
want a $25.00 initial fee supposedly to purge it..........what gives.
If its empty its empty. Its got the standard type of valve (OPD not
required on a 100# cylinder) so it can be opened and any air inside
can be vented to the atmosphere. Am I missing something here? Called
two others and they also said the tank needs to be purged since its
new.........I have bought new 20# and never had to have them purged .
I smell a rip off for some reason.

Maybe I just need to transfer some gas to give it a used smell into
this new cylinder and then act like its been filled before.
Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Opinions expressed are those of my wifes,
I had no input whatsoever.
Remove "nospam" from email addy.


Tis SOP! Will prevent problems down the road. You have to get all the
air/oxygen & moisture out, you just want propane vapor/gas. But sounds like
$25 is a bit much! How much ya paying per gallon for the propane?
The last time I did this, it was like $5 more for the purge.


Lane


  #4  
Old December 18th 03, 01:44 AM
Jeff Wisnia
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Initial fill of new Propane tank fact or fiction on purge needed



Roy wrote:

Just what is involved with filling a new propane tank. I just bought a
brand new 100# tank. Took it to a gas supplier to get filled, and they
want a $25.00 initial fee supposedly to purge it..........what gives.
If its empty its empty. Its got the standard type of valve (OPD not
required on a 100# cylinder) so it can be opened and any air inside
can be vented to the atmosphere. Am I missing something here? Called
two others and they also said the tank needs to be purged since its
new.........I have bought new 20# and never had to have them purged .
I smell a rip off for some reason.

Maybe I just need to transfer some gas to give it a used smell into
this new cylinder and then act like its been filled before.
Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Opinions expressed are those of my wifes,
I had no input whatsoever.
Remove "nospam" from email addy.


So, what is considered a "safe and acceptable" standard purging routine
for propane containers?

Does it involve evacuating the cylinder to some negative pressure (without
imploding it of course) and then backfilling it with propane?

Or is it some number of cycles of squirting in some amount of propane and
letting the air/propane mixture vent out of the container?

Jeff

--

Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"If you can smile when things are going wrong, you've thought of someone
to blame it on."


  #5  
Old December 18th 03, 01:52 AM
PhysicsGenius
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Initial fill of new Propane tank fact or fiction on purge needed

Jeff Wisnia wrote:

Does it involve evacuating the cylinder to some negative pressure (without
imploding it of course)


Assuming the tank is built to take significantly more than 2 atm of
positive pressure, could you possibly implode it even if it had a
perfect vacuum inside?

  #6  
Old December 18th 03, 01:56 AM
Jeff Wisnia
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Initial fill (should have looked before I asked)



Jeff Wisnia wrote:



So, what is considered a "safe and acceptable" standard purging routine
for propane containers?


snipped

Googled this up at several locations...:

************************************************** ******************************************

Have your LP-gas container purged. It only takes a few minutes and your LP-gas
dealer is equipped to perform this service (see NPGA bulletin 133-a).

To purge a container, the following steps should be taken:

1. Purging of containers should be performed in an approved area (see NFPA
#58)

2. Determine if the container pressure is zero. Should the container contain
only air pressure, the air may be vented directly to the atmosphere through
the service valve.

3. If free water is present in the container, it should be drained.

4. Pressurize the container to approximately 15 PSIG with LP-gas vapor. Never
purge with liquid LP-gas; to do so will cause the moisture vapor to chill and
remain in the container.

5. Fully open the container service valve and vent safely to the atmosphere.

6. Repeat the fourth and fifth steps for a total of five purgings.

************************************************** *********************************************

Jeff


--

Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"If you can smile when things are going wrong, you've thought of someone to
blame it on."


  #7  
Old December 18th 03, 02:12 AM
David A. Webb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Initial fill (should have looked before I asked)

On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 20:56:48 -0500, Jeff Wisnia
wrote:

4. Pressurize the container to approximately 15 PSIG with LP-gas vapor. Never
purge with liquid LP-gas; to do so will cause the moisture vapor to chill and
remain in the container.

5. Fully open the container service valve and vent safely to the atmosphere.

6. Repeat the fourth and fifth steps for a total of five purgings.


And exactly how is doing this making the tank safer than if it were
filled without purging?

As soon as the tank goes from zero pressure to 15psi the first time,
the contents are no longer an explosion hazard. So why pressurize and
vent?

Is it simply to remove air because the air may contain moisture?

Dave



  #8  
Old December 18th 03, 02:19 AM
Roy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Initial fill (should have looked before I asked)

On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 20:56:48 -0500, Jeff Wisnia
wrote:

===
===
===Jeff Wisnia wrote:
===
===
===
=== So, what is considered a "safe and acceptable" standard purging routine
=== for propane containers?
===
===
===snipped
===
===Googled this up at several locations...:
===
===******************************************** ************************************************
===
===Have your LP-gas container purged. It only takes a few minutes and your LP-gas
===dealer is equipped to perform this service (see NPGA bulletin 133-a).
===
===To purge a container, the following steps should be taken:
===
===1. Purging of containers should be performed in an approved area (see NFPA
===#58)
===
===2. Determine if the container pressure is zero. Should the container contain
===only air pressure, the air may be vented directly to the atmosphere through
===the service valve.
===
===3. If free water is present in the container, it should be drained.
===
===4. Pressurize the container to approximately 15 PSIG with LP-gas vapor. Never
===purge with liquid LP-gas; to do so will cause the moisture vapor to chill and
===remain in the container.
===
===5. Fully open the container service valve and vent safely to the atmosphere.
===
===6. Repeat the fourth and fifth steps for a total of five purgings.
===
===******************************************** ************************************************** *
===
===Jeff


Well I can buy the reasoning behind it, but at 25 a whack is out of
line. I'll carry it to the dealer that I usually use to get my fills.
These others were on my way home and I stopped by to see about getting
it filled. The others I called on the phone, as my regular dealer is
closed today after 12 noon. He has been in business for 49 years now,
so he should know what the story is and how to handle it.

I pay $7.35 for a 20# refill from this fellow. But if there is propane
in the tank he will weigh it and only charge you for what he puts in
it, unlike the others that you pay a flat fee regardless of how much
may be left in it. Thats one reason I was going to get it filled at
the other places as my dealer is further away and these were on my way
and the tank was empty anyhow. I sure don;t know how folks pay those
high prices at places like Lowes and wally world for 20# refills.

Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Opinions expressed are those of my wifes,
I had no input whatsoever.
Remove "nospam" from email addy.
  #9  
Old December 18th 03, 02:23 AM
Mark
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Initial fill of new Propane tank fact or fiction on purge needed



Roy wrote:

Just what is involved with filling a new propane tank. I just bought a
brand new 100# tank. Took it to a gas supplier to get filled, and they
want a $25.00 initial fee supposedly to purge it..........



What a rip off. Far as I knew we purged new tanks for free.

Tanks are purges to prevent odorant fade.


--

Mark

N.E. Ohio


Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens,
A.K.A. Mark Twain)

When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the
suspense. (Gaz, r.moto)

  #10  
Old December 18th 03, 02:25 AM
Jack Erbes
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Initial fill of new Propane tank fact or fiction on purge needed

On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 01:18:53 GMT, (Roy) wrote:

Just what is involved with filling a new propane tank.

snip

Here are a couple of links for the how and why:

http://www.regoproducts.com/LPpurge02.htm

Not mentioned there but something I recall from the past was a
recommendation to put a few ounces (in a 20# tank) of either methanol
or isopropyl alcohol in the tank and slosh it around and pour it out
prior to purging. That will dilute and absorb any moisture present
and result in the bulk of the moisture being removed prior to and
during the purging process.

I think the bottom line on purging is to reduce the potential for
explosions.

I smell a rip off for some reason.


I don't think it is a rip off, but maybe it is not done as often as it
should be for the smaller bottles.



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.SEO by vBSEO ©2010, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2004-2014 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.