According to the weather station I recently acquired, we got 7.11" of rain
yesterday. Between 10:30pm and 11:30pm alone the sky dumped 2.77". This
all on top of over 7" last Saturday and off and on the rest of the week.
For the first time since I bought my house 10 years ago, the basement
flooded. There was about six inches of water; not too bad considering what
I've seen on TV from around my area and of course Katrina. But the question
was, how was I going to get rid of it? I tried the shopvac, but lugging 10
gallons of water at a pop up the outside stairs got old very quickly. Then
I looked over at the Turn Pro bandsaw and said to myself, "Hmmm, might be a
good time to try out the coolant pump." I took off shoes/socks,
disassembled the coolant container and was delighted to find a nice quality
cast-iron pump lurking down there. I mickey-moused some hoses together
eventually attaching a garden hose and ran it up the stairs. Found out how
to disconnect the electric to the saw from the pump (pump won't run unless
the saw's turned on). Moved the saw into the deepest water, set the pump
down, turned it on and in two hours the basement was dry. I don't think
I'll ever press this poor pump into that kind of duty again, but I'm sure
there wasn't a pump to be had at the big-box stores this weekend. BTW, the
saw works great, too!

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 23:42:28 -0400, "NokNokMan"
wrote:

According to the weather station I recently acquired, we got 7.11" of rain
yesterday. Between 10:30pm and 11:30pm alone the sky dumped 2.77". This
all on top of over 7" last Saturday and off and on the rest of the week.
For the first time since I bought my house 10 years ago, the basement
flooded. There was about six inches of water; not too bad considering what
I've seen on TV from around my area and of course Katrina. But the question
was, how was I going to get rid of it? I tried the shopvac, but lugging 10
gallons of water at a pop up the outside stairs got old very quickly. Then
I looked over at the Turn Pro bandsaw and said to myself, "Hmmm, might be a
good time to try out the coolant pump." I took off shoes/socks,
disassembled the coolant container and was delighted to find a nice quality
cast-iron pump lurking down there. I mickey-moused some hoses together
eventually attaching a garden hose and ran it up the stairs. Found out how
to disconnect the electric to the saw from the pump (pump won't run unless
the saw's turned on). Moved the saw into the deepest water, set the pump
down, turned it on and in two hours the basement was dry. I don't think
I'll ever press this poor pump into that kind of duty again, but I'm sure
there wasn't a pump to be had at the big-box stores this weekend. BTW, the
saw works great, too!

The feckless suffer and bleat pitifully while the competent
improvise, get 'er done -- and then help others. Careful, you
may have just earned a place on Gunner's list of "survivalists"...
G

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 23:42:28 -0400, "NokNokMan"
wrote:

According to the weather station I recently acquired, we got 7.11" of rain
yesterday. Between 10:30pm and 11:30pm alone the sky dumped 2.77". This
all on top of over 7" last Saturday and off and on the rest of the week.
For the first time since I bought my house 10 years ago, the basement
flooded. There was about six inches of water; not too bad considering what
I've seen on TV from around my area and of course Katrina. But the question
was, how was I going to get rid of it? I tried the shopvac, but lugging 10
gallons of water at a pop up the outside stairs got old very quickly. Then
I looked over at the Turn Pro bandsaw and said to myself, "Hmmm, might be a
good time to try out the coolant pump." I took off shoes/socks,
disassembled the coolant container and was delighted to find a nice quality
cast-iron pump lurking down there. I mickey-moused some hoses together
eventually attaching a garden hose and ran it up the stairs. Found out how
to disconnect the electric to the saw from the pump (pump won't run unless
the saw's turned on). Moved the saw into the deepest water, set the pump
down, turned it on and in two hours the basement was dry. I don't think
I'll ever press this poor pump into that kind of duty again, but I'm sure
there wasn't a pump to be had at the big-box stores this weekend. BTW, the
saw works great, too!

Now THERE is thinking outside the box. Using your bandsaw to pump out
the basement.....

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 00:33:13 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 23:42:28 -0400, "NokNokMan"
wrote:

According to the weather station I recently acquired, we got 7.11" of rain
yesterday. Between 10:30pm and 11:30pm alone the sky dumped 2.77". This
all on top of over 7" last Saturday and off and on the rest of the week.
For the first time since I bought my house 10 years ago, the basement
flooded. There was about six inches of water; not too bad considering what
I've seen on TV from around my area and of course Katrina. But the question
was, how was I going to get rid of it? I tried the shopvac, but lugging 10
gallons of water at a pop up the outside stairs got old very quickly. Then
I looked over at the Turn Pro bandsaw and said to myself, "Hmmm, might be a
good time to try out the coolant pump." I took off shoes/socks,
disassembled the coolant container and was delighted to find a nice quality
cast-iron pump lurking down there. I mickey-moused some hoses together
eventually attaching a garden hose and ran it up the stairs. Found out how
to disconnect the electric to the saw from the pump (pump won't run unless
the saw's turned on). Moved the saw into the deepest water, set the pump
down, turned it on and in two hours the basement was dry. I don't think
I'll ever press this poor pump into that kind of duty again, but I'm sure
there wasn't a pump to be had at the big-box stores this weekend. BTW, the
saw works great, too!

The feckless suffer and bleat pitifully while the competent
improvise, get 'er done -- and then help others. Careful, you
may have just earned a place on Gunner's list of "survivalists"...
G

Indeed.

"adapt, improvise, overcome"

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

In article ,
Gunner Asch wrote:



Indeed.

"adapt, improvise, overcome"

Ayup!

Among the ways to perform a task successfully a Money, Mind, and
Muscle.
Lacking the first, the other two may have to do, and often will if
carefully applied.


Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Gunner Asch wrote:


Now THERE is thinking outside the box. Using your bandsaw to pump out
the basement.....

That I wouldn't have thought of when I had too much water, and a
burned out sumppump

Ended up using some powerheads from the fishtank.

All those years I thought thos GPH rates on those little things
were all BS, but was pleasantly surprised on how much, and how high
those could lift/move water

**
mike
**

Let the record show that Gunner Asch wrote back on
Sun, 16 Oct 2005 14:17:02 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking :
On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 23:42:28 -0400, "NokNokMan"
wrote:

According to the weather station I recently acquired, we got 7.11" of rain
yesterday. Between 10:30pm and 11:30pm alone the sky dumped 2.77". This
all on top of over 7" last Saturday and off and on the rest of the week.
For the first time since I bought my house 10 years ago, the basement
flooded. There was about six inches of water; not too bad considering what
I've seen on TV from around my area and of course Katrina. But the question
was, how was I going to get rid of it? I tried the shopvac, but lugging 10
gallons of water at a pop up the outside stairs got old very quickly. Then
I looked over at the Turn Pro bandsaw and said to myself, "Hmmm, might be a
good time to try out the coolant pump." I took off shoes/socks,
disassembled the coolant container and was delighted to find a nice quality
cast-iron pump lurking down there. I mickey-moused some hoses together
eventually attaching a garden hose and ran it up the stairs. Found out how
to disconnect the electric to the saw from the pump (pump won't run unless
the saw's turned on). Moved the saw into the deepest water, set the pump
down, turned it on and in two hours the basement was dry. I don't think
I'll ever press this poor pump into that kind of duty again, but I'm sure
there wasn't a pump to be had at the big-box stores this weekend. BTW, the
saw works great, too!

Now THERE is thinking outside the box. Using your bandsaw to pump out
the basement.....

And here I thought he'd figured some way to use the bandsaw to "fling"
water.
All he did was figure out how to use the coolant pump on his bandsaw to
pump water ... still a clever application, and the ability to see the
operation part of "coolant pump" is "pump".

Like the time I needed to keep some candles dry, and was trying to
figure out how to wrap them in plastic wrap, when She Who is So Smart says
"Use a Condom." that's how I got the flat forehead; "Well," smack!,
"Du'h!". :-)

tschus
pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich.
as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James
Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."

pyotr filipivich wrote:
Let the record show that Gunner Asch wrote back on
Sun, 16 Oct 2005 14:17:02 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking :

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 23:42:28 -0400, "NokNokMan"
wrote:


According to the weather station I recently acquired, we got 7.11" of rain
yesterday. Between 10:30pm and 11:30pm alone the sky dumped 2.77". This
all on top of over 7" last Saturday and off and on the rest of the week.
For the first time since I bought my house 10 years ago, the basement
flooded. There was about six inches of water; not too bad considering what
I've seen on TV from around my area and of course Katrina. But the question
was, how was I going to get rid of it? I tried the shopvac, but lugging 10
gallons of water at a pop up the outside stairs got old very quickly. Then
I looked over at the Turn Pro bandsaw and said to myself, "Hmmm, might be a
good time to try out the coolant pump." I took off shoes/socks,
disassembled the coolant container and was delighted to find a nice quality
cast-iron pump lurking down there. I mickey-moused some hoses together
eventually attaching a garden hose and ran it up the stairs. Found out how
to disconnect the electric to the saw from the pump (pump won't run unless
the saw's turned on). Moved the saw into the deepest water, set the pump
down, turned it on and in two hours the basement was dry. I don't think
I'll ever press this poor pump into that kind of duty again, but I'm sure
there wasn't a pump to be had at the big-box stores this weekend. BTW, the
saw works great, too!


Now THERE is thinking outside the box. Using your bandsaw to pump out
the basement.....


And here I thought he'd figured some way to use the bandsaw to "fling"
water.
All he did was figure out how to use the coolant pump on his bandsaw to
pump water ... still a clever application, and the ability to see the
operation part of "coolant pump" is "pump".

Like the time I needed to keep some candles dry, and was trying to
figure out how to wrap them in plastic wrap, when She Who is So Smart says
"Use a Condom." that's how I got the flat forehead; "Well," smack!,
"Du'h!". :-)

I'm told it's also good way to keep the moisture away from your Land
Rover ignition coil if you're a serious off-roading fan.

Chris

Don Foreman wrote:

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 23:42:28 -0400, "NokNokMan"
wrote:


According to the weather station I recently acquired, we got 7.11" of rain
yesterday. Between 10:30pm and 11:30pm alone the sky dumped 2.77". This
all on top of over 7" last Saturday and off and on the rest of the week.
For the first time since I bought my house 10 years ago, the basement
flooded. There was about six inches of water; not too bad considering what
I've seen on TV from around my area and of course Katrina. But the question
was, how was I going to get rid of it? I tried the shopvac, but lugging 10
gallons of water at a pop up the outside stairs got old very quickly. Then
I looked over at the Turn Pro bandsaw and said to myself, "Hmmm, might be a
good time to try out the coolant pump." I took off shoes/socks,
disassembled the coolant container and was delighted to find a nice quality
cast-iron pump lurking down there. I mickey-moused some hoses together
eventually attaching a garden hose and ran it up the stairs. Found out how
to disconnect the electric to the saw from the pump (pump won't run unless
the saw's turned on). Moved the saw into the deepest water, set the pump
down, turned it on and in two hours the basement was dry. I don't think
I'll ever press this poor pump into that kind of duty again, but I'm sure
there wasn't a pump to be had at the big-box stores this weekend. BTW, the
saw works great, too!


The feckless suffer and bleat pitifully while the competent
improvise, get 'er done -- and then help others. Careful, you
may have just earned a place on Gunner's list of "survivalists"...
G


Yes, the "nebish" guys wander around the parking lot asking, "Anybody
got any jumper cables?".

The smart ones, fewer in number every day, have a set in their trunks
and are usually willing to stop and help the suffering.

(But rarely need them to start their own cars because they keep their
vehicles maintained and remember to shut lights and stuff off.)

Jeff


--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

In article ,
xray wrote:

.......... The story, as I recall it, was that king Gustav
II ordered the ship built, and then got involved in the engineering. He
insisted on adding huge amounts of armor to the ship's walls. On it's
maiden voyage, it capsized and sank before leaving the harbor.

So today we have Congress engineering health care, is it any wonder it's
sinking?

--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 20:02:39 GMT, pyotr filipivich
wrote:



And here I thought he'd figured some way to use the bandsaw to "fling"
water.
All he did was figure out how to use the coolant pump on his bandsaw to
pump water ... still a clever application, and the ability to see the
operation part of "coolant pump" is "pump".

Like the time I needed to keep some candles dry, and was trying to
figure out how to wrap them in plastic wrap, when She Who is So Smart says
"Use a Condom." that's how I got the flat forehead; "Well," smack!,
"Du'h!". :-)

tschus
pyotr
"Take the saran wrap back to the kitchen and put all your faith in the
Pill" - early '60s rural mantra
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 20:16:44 +0000 (UTC), Christopher Tidy
wrote:




Like the time I needed to keep some candles dry, and was trying to
figure out how to wrap them in plastic wrap, when She Who is So Smart says
"Use a Condom." that's how I got the flat forehead; "Well," smack!,
"Du'h!". :-)

I'm told it's also good way to keep the moisture away from your Land
Rover ignition coil if you're a serious off-roading fan.

Chris
My 1960 Austin (4 cyl.) got a rubber glove over the distributer which
was located in the direct splash zone of the right wheel, wich, in
Canada, hits every puddle on the road.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

"Gerald Miller" wrote: clip)"Take the saran wrap back to the kitchen and put
all your faith in the Pill" (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
A guy walked into the coffee group the other morning and said, "I heard that
high school kids are using Saranwap in lieu of condoms. I wonder why...easy
to come by, I suppose."

The feckless suffer and bleat pitifully while the competent
improvise, get 'er done -- and then help others. Careful, you
may have just earned a place on Gunner's list of "survivalists"...
G

Gunner would have plumbed his Quincy, if he can find it, and pumped it out
in 12 minutes.

Jeff Wisnia wrote:

Yes, the "nebish" guys wander around the parking lot asking, "Anybody
got any jumper cables?".

The smart ones, fewer in number every day, have a set in their trunks
and are usually willing to stop and help the suffering.

(But rarely need them to start their own cars because they keep their
vehicles maintained and remember to shut lights and stuff off.)

Yeah. And they make sure that their wives and daughters
have jumper cables and know how to use them safely.

There was an interesting post on the Subaru newsgroup
about synthetic oil and dead batteries. The gist was
that cars with synthetic oil crank a lot easier in all
weather and as a result, you don't know that your
battery is getting weak. As a result, you come out
one morning and it's totally gone instead of giving
you a hint for a month....

I change mine every 5 years, minus a year for every
time it gets deep-discharged, which has only been
a couple of times over the last 10-15 years.

On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 20:52:50 -0700, Jim Stewart
wrote:

Jeff Wisnia wrote:

Yes, the "nebish" guys wander around the parking lot asking, "Anybody
got any jumper cables?".

The smart ones, fewer in number every day, have a set in their trunks
and are usually willing to stop and help the suffering.

(But rarely need them to start their own cars because they keep their
vehicles maintained and remember to shut lights and stuff off.)

Yeah. And they make sure that their wives and daughters
have jumper cables and know how to use them safely.

There was an interesting post on the Subaru newsgroup
about synthetic oil and dead batteries. The gist was
that cars with synthetic oil crank a lot easier in all
weather and as a result, you don't know that your
battery is getting weak. As a result, you come out
one morning and it's totally gone instead of giving
you a hint for a month....

I change mine every 5 years, minus a year for every
time it gets deep-discharged, which has only been
a couple of times over the last 10-15 years.

I was amazed that the original OEM batteries in our Ford Contours were
still working flawlessly after 7 years in Minnesota, and one of them
had been discharged to dead a couple of times. Our cars live
outdoors all winter. There is no longer room in my garage for one
car, much less two. (I have a very rare wife!) I replaced them
with batteries from the Ford dealer. They were about $10 more than
most aftermarket batteries, less than some from Sears.

On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 01:13:54 GMT, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:

The feckless suffer and bleat pitifully while the competent
improvise, get 'er done -- and then help others. Careful, you
may have just earned a place on Gunner's list of "survivalists"...
G

Gunner would have plumbed his Quincy, if he can find it, and pumped it out
in 12 minutes.


blush...well...I do have a rather underutilized 1" water pump
somewhere in the stacks of stuff. I got it from a guy who was going to
use it for a fire pump, using his swimming pool as a reseviour, until
he discovered the electric motor was 3 ph. I suspect it came out of
the oil fields.

Never even fired it up. Not a lot of call for it here in the desert.
Though..I suppose I could use the pressure washer..still need a
nozzle/gun assembly for it. It too is 3ph, but I can handle that...

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 20:02:39 GMT, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Let the record show that Gunner Asch wrote back on
Sun, 16 Oct 2005 14:17:02 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking :
On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 23:42:28 -0400, "NokNokMan"
wrote:

According to the weather station I recently acquired, we got 7.11" of rain
yesterday. Between 10:30pm and 11:30pm alone the sky dumped 2.77". This
all on top of over 7" last Saturday and off and on the rest of the week.
For the first time since I bought my house 10 years ago, the basement
flooded. There was about six inches of water; not too bad considering what
I've seen on TV from around my area and of course Katrina. But the question
was, how was I going to get rid of it? I tried the shopvac, but lugging 10
gallons of water at a pop up the outside stairs got old very quickly. Then
I looked over at the Turn Pro bandsaw and said to myself, "Hmmm, might be a
good time to try out the coolant pump." I took off shoes/socks,
disassembled the coolant container and was delighted to find a nice quality
cast-iron pump lurking down there. I mickey-moused some hoses together
eventually attaching a garden hose and ran it up the stairs. Found out how
to disconnect the electric to the saw from the pump (pump won't run unless
the saw's turned on). Moved the saw into the deepest water, set the pump
down, turned it on and in two hours the basement was dry. I don't think
I'll ever press this poor pump into that kind of duty again, but I'm sure
there wasn't a pump to be had at the big-box stores this weekend. BTW, the
saw works great, too!

Now THERE is thinking outside the box. Using your bandsaw to pump out
the basement.....

And here I thought he'd figured some way to use the bandsaw to "fling"
water.
All he did was figure out how to use the coolant pump on his bandsaw to
pump water ... still a clever application, and the ability to see the
operation part of "coolant pump" is "pump".

Like the time I needed to keep some candles dry, and was trying to
figure out how to wrap them in plastic wrap, when She Who is So Smart says
"Use a Condom." that's how I got the flat forehead; "Well," smack!,
"Du'h!". :-)

tschus
pyotr

You dont have a vacuum sealer????? What the $%&^!! kind of survivalist
are you???

Somebody slap him..hard!!

Btw...I got another tank of welding gas during the week, another
freebe..G..guy gave me a 125CF tank filled with
2.5-CO2/7.5-Argon/90-Helium (for stainless steel I think).

As my son, the daughter in law and grand baby are living here now..I
decided to have a bit of fun with them...so I dug through my Stuff and
found an old Fiesta pack of resiviour tipped ribbed condoms, and
filled a bright pink one with the gas...DAMN you can really blow them
up! and tied string to one end..and carried it into the house tonight
and gave it to the 18 month old grand baby. She loves balloons...and
was toddling around the house with it. I went back outside and was
working in the shop below an open window when it suddenly dawned on
the kids what the balloon was.....

G

The old man still manages to mess with the kids heads pretty good
sometimes G

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

"Yeah. And they make sure that their wives and daughters
have jumper cables and know how to use them safely. "

why do you assume that everyone with a uterus is an idiot??

FYI .... I just finished installing a rebuilt transmission in MY car
which by the way saves us about $1200.

Keep your sexist comments to yourself please...

handysmurf wrote:
"Yeah. And they make sure that their wives and daughters
have jumper cables and know how to use them safely. "

why do you assume that everyone with a uterus is an idiot??

I don't. I don't assume anything. And neither
should you.

My wife is my business partner, my daughter is a
botany major. Both are quite a bit smarter than
me in a multitude of ways. I don't have a son.

Nonetheless, I'm the one that maintains the cars, not
by choice, but because the females *don't want to*.

My wife has always carried jumper cables, but has called
me a couple of times to verify that she's hooked them
up correctly.

My daughter has been instructed (after an unfortunate
incident with her incompetent boyfriend) that she is
to be responsible for tire changing, battery jumping
and any other field-expedient repairs. She once
brought the car home with a piece of broken plastic
held away from the tire with a tampon string. I was
impressed.

FYI .... I just finished installing a rebuilt transmission in MY car
which by the way saves us about $1200.

What does that have to do with anything? My
wife and my daughter couldn't do it and wouldn't
if they could. Ninty-five percent of the men
I know couldn't do it.

Just because *you* have the skills to do such
a task doesn't mean that others, men included,
do.

Keep your sexist comments to yourself please...

Wow, making sure that a female has the tools
and skills to handle a dead battery is a sexist
comment? I thought I was empowering them...

Don't make assumptions about people and their
viewpoints. I've hired females in non-traditional
jobs and if anything, I've put forth an extra effort
to encourage females to tackle non-traditional
tasks.

Jim Stewart wrote:

-snip-

What does that have to do with anything? My
wife and my daughter couldn't do it and wouldn't
if they could. Ninty-five percent of the men
I know couldn't do it.

To my knowledge most women are happy to express a total lack of
knowledge about mechanics.

Most men are happy to demonstrate -- on their own vehicle, if necessary.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

handysmurf wrote:

"Yeah. And they make sure that their wives and daughters
have jumper cables and know how to use them safely. "

why do you assume that everyone with a uterus is an idiot??

And why do you assume he assumed that? It makes me think that you may be
thinking with yours and "assuming" everyone with testicles must be a MCP.

There's a major difference between idiocy and ignorance, and it's fair
to say that most of us are ignorant about a lot more more things than
we're knowledgable about. Renaissance men (or women) really don't exist
anymore.

Just where in our mainstream educational system do today's students,
especially the girls, get an opportunity to learn about jumper cables
and how to use them?

FYI .... I just finished installing a rebuilt transmission in MY car
which by the way saves us about $1200.

That's great, and I appreciate your satisfaction of doing a job well and
the good feeling you got from saving that money which you can now use
for something enjoyable you want. I'd feel eggsackly the same.

Now riddle me this....Give us your best guess about what percentage of
ladies coming out of any Macy's department store in an urban area would
answer an honest "yes" if you stopped them and asked them if they knew
how to use jumper cables. I'd wager even money that it would be less
than 20% of them. And I'd also wager that it wouldn't be higher than 50%
for males in next year's graduating class from the Harvahd School of Law.


Keep your sexist comments to yourself please...


Maybe before you wrote that you should have stopped ranting long enough
to think about what Jim might really have been saying?

It sounded to me like he was describing a guy who loves his family and
was willing to check if they knew about jumper cables and/or take the
time to teach them something which might save their skins if the
situation they were in was desperate enough.

Peace,

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote: Maybe before you wrote that you should have stopped
ranting long enough to think about what Jim might really have been saying?
(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jeff, the objectionable part of Jim's post is: "And they make sure that
their wives and daughters have jumper cables and know how to use them
safely." If you can't see that, let me try to explain. There is an implied
meaning in that statement that women, as a group, are less qualified to do
simple mechanical tasks. Even if you can justify the statement
statistically, that is not the point. It carries the meaning that men are
superior to women in this regard, and need to look after them. Had he said,
"And they make sure that the other members of their family have jumper
cables and know how to use them safely," there would be no objection.

On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 04:53:45 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"
wrote:


"Jeff Wisnia" wrote: Maybe before you wrote that you should have stopped
ranting long enough to think about what Jim might really have been saying?
(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jeff, the objectionable part of Jim's post is: "And they make sure that
their wives and daughters have jumper cables and know how to use them
safely." If you can't see that, let me try to explain. There is an implied
meaning in that statement that women, as a group, are less qualified to do
simple mechanical tasks. Even if you can justify the statement
statistically, that is not the point. It carries the meaning that men are
superior to women in this regard, and need to look after them. Had he said,
"And they make sure that the other members of their family have jumper
cables and know how to use them safely," there would be no objection.


Blink blink...reality check time Leo....

Tell you what Buddy...why not conduct an informal poll at the shopping
mall and ask passersbye if they know how to use jumper cables
properly.

Ask both males and females. Post the results here.

Gunner


"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 04:53:45 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Leo
Lichtman" quickly quoth:


"Jeff Wisnia" wrote: Maybe before you wrote that you should have stopped
ranting long enough to think about what Jim might really have been saying?
(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jeff, the objectionable part of Jim's post is: "And they make sure that
their wives and daughters have jumper cables and know how to use them
safely." If you can't see that, let me try to explain. There is an implied
meaning in that statement that women, as a group, are less qualified to do
simple mechanical tasks. Even if you can justify the statement
statistically, that is not the point. It carries the meaning that men are
superior to women in this regard, and need to look after them.

No, only people looking for sexism would have thought that. Neutral
parties would have realized that the implied meaning is that women
are generally less trained in that "art" and have less motivation to
learn. When it comes to auto maintenance and repair, many men and
still fewer women want to do the work. Ditto machining and welding.
Face it, it's dirty work and the vast majority of the population wants
nothing to do with it. There's nothing sexist about that at all.


Had he said,
"And they make sure that the other members of their family have jumper
cables and know how to use them safely," there would be no objection.

And he would have been judged quite Politically Correct.
Feh! sigh


-------------------------------------------------
- Boldly going - * Wondrous Website Design
- nowhere. - * http://www.diversify.com
-------------------------------------------------

Leo Lichtman wrote:
"Jeff Wisnia" wrote: Maybe before you wrote that you should have stopped
ranting long enough to think about what Jim might really have been saying?
(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jeff, the objectionable part of Jim's post is: "And they make sure that
their wives and daughters have jumper cables and know how to use them
safely." If you can't see that, let me try to explain. There is an implied
meaning in that statement that women, as a group, are less qualified to do
simple mechanical tasks. Even if you can justify the statement
statistically, that is not the point. It carries the meaning that men are
superior to women in this regard, and need to look after them. Had he said,
"And they make sure that the other members of their family have jumper
cables and know how to use them safely," there would be no objection.



And so you think we should refrain from phrasing things in a manner
which correlates to obviousities?



It's all in the genetics, Leo.

If you've read any of Jared Diamond's works ("Guns, Germs and Steel",
"The Third Chimpanzee", or "Why Is Sex Fun.") you probably noted that
from the time man stood upright, his role has been that of the the
hunter, the tool maker, and the physical defender of his family. Women
have been intelligent and caring family unifiers and supporters. Most of
the men and women of today's world population still exemplify those
characteristics.

Civilization wouldn't have made it to the (somewhat sorry) state we're
at now without it being that way. Both genders need and depend on the
inherent traits qualities of the other to survive.

Sure there are lots of exceptions, but firing off a rant about Jim's
remark has me wondering if handysmurf sleepst on garnet paper sheets to
make her that sensitive.

I'm pretty sure most of the ladies I'm aquainted with would accept Jim's
words as being accurately descriptive of the status quo, and if pressed
would probably make some sort of self-deprecating joking remark about
their own lack of jumper cable prowess, as would I about being born
without a "style gene".

Jeeze, now I know how Larry Summers must have felt earlier this year:

http://tinyurl.com/6ajqs

Peace,

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:11:21 -0400, Jeff Wisnia
wrote:

Leo Lichtman wrote:
"Jeff Wisnia" wrote: Maybe before you wrote that you should have stopped
ranting long enough to think about what Jim might really have been saying?
(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jeff, the objectionable part of Jim's post is: "And they make sure that
their wives and daughters have jumper cables and know how to use them
safely." If you can't see that, let me try to explain. There is an implied
meaning in that statement that women, as a group, are less qualified to do
simple mechanical tasks. Even if you can justify the statement
statistically, that is not the point. It carries the meaning that men are
superior to women in this regard, and need to look after them. Had he said,
"And they make sure that the other members of their family have jumper
cables and know how to use them safely," there would be no objection.



And so you think we should refrain from phrasing things in a manner
which correlates to obviousities?



It's all in the genetics, Leo.

If you've read any of Jared Diamond's works ("Guns, Germs and Steel",
"The Third Chimpanzee", or "Why Is Sex Fun.") you probably noted that
from the time man stood upright, his role has been that of the the
hunter, the tool maker, and the physical defender of his family. Women
have been intelligent and caring family unifiers and supporters. Most of
the men and women of today's world population still exemplify those
characteristics.

Civilization wouldn't have made it to the (somewhat sorry) state we're
at now without it being that way. Both genders need and depend on the
inherent traits qualities of the other to survive.

Sure there are lots of exceptions, but firing off a rant about Jim's
remark has me wondering if handysmurf sleepst on garnet paper sheets to
make her that sensitive.

I'm pretty sure most of the ladies I'm aquainted with would accept Jim's
words as being accurately descriptive of the status quo, and if pressed
would probably make some sort of self-deprecating joking remark about
their own lack of jumper cable prowess, as would I about being born
without a "style gene".

Jeeze, now I know how Larry Summers must have felt earlier this year:

http://tinyurl.com/6ajqs

Peace,

Jeff


I believe I found the problem Mr. Summers had....

"''Here was this economist lecturing pompously [to] this room full of
the country's most accomplished scholars on women's issues "

Women who have made a career of, in many cases...spewing bogus or ill
conceived agendas with little connection to reality.

I should mention that my sister, is a very well thought of engineer
with two doctorates in hard sciences, and has been a tomboy since she
could walk. She has never married, so children were never an issue,
but only because many men feel ill at ease with a woman smarter or
handier then they. Her latest boyfriend seems to be at least as smart
and as handy as she is..so its been a good match for the last 8 or so
years.

But even she admists to being a rare anomoly among her female peers.

And damn she can run a pretty weld bead...sigh....

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote: And so you think we should refrain from phrasing
things in a manner which correlates to obviousities? It's all in the
genetics, Leo. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
No, I think we should refrain from phrasing things in a manner which offends
peoples feelings. Did you notice that "handysmurf" is the OP of the thread
titled "Metal Chair Repair"? She is dealing with a broken screw extractor
in her HUSBAND's chair. Reading between the lines, I conclude that she is
more mechanical than he is, *in spite of genetics.* When you compare two
groups, such as men and women, where there is a statistical distribution of
some characteristic, such as height, or physical strength, or mechanical
aptitude, you will find the one group peaks higher than the other. Yet,
there will be a large overlap in the distribution curves, so not every
member of the "superior" group scores higher than every member of the
"inferior" group.

Evidently, handysmurph scores pretty high in mechanical aptitude, and
doesn't like being talked down to.

Leo Lichtman wrote:
"Jeff Wisnia" wrote: And so you think we should refrain from phrasing
things in a manner which correlates to obviousities? It's all in the
genetics, Leo. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
No, I think we should refrain from phrasing things in a manner which offends
peoples feelings. Did you notice that "handysmurf" is the OP of the thread
titled "Metal Chair Repair"? She is dealing with a broken screw extractor
in her HUSBAND's chair. Reading between the lines, I conclude that she is
more mechanical than he is, *in spite of genetics.* When you compare two
groups, such as men and women, where there is a statistical distribution of
some characteristic, such as height, or physical strength, or mechanical
aptitude, you will find the one group peaks higher than the other. Yet,
there will be a large overlap in the distribution curves, so not every
member of the "superior" group scores higher than every member of the
"inferior" group.

Evidently, handysmurph scores pretty high in mechanical aptitude, and
doesn't like being talked down to.



OK, I think we're pretty much in agreement on the subject of
distribution and overlap of mechanical apptitudes, Leo.

Where we differ is that I don't think Jim was talking down *directly* to
her, since he wasn't responding to anything *she'd* said in a post.

It was she who chose to react the way she did and jump him over it.

You seem to think her response was justified, and I don't.

We'll probably never get any closer than we are already on this one, but
it is interesting to me that *she* hasn't yet jumped in to further
defend her reasons for accusing Jim of MCPism.

Peace, let's get back to making chips now...

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

On 17 Oct 2005 15:33:47 -0700, "handysmurf"
wrote:

"Yeah. And they make sure that their wives and daughters
have jumper cables and know how to use them safely. "

why do you assume that everyone with a uterus is an idiot??


I know Jeff well enough to know that he makes no such assumption.
He might better have said "family members less mechanically inclined",
which happens to be the women in his family -- who are very competent
in other areas. He works at the company his wife operates.

Might you be able to could cook a meal, sew a seam or clean a house
better than most guys? Most women can, but it ain't a given.
Fitch, whom you've probably never heard of but many on this group
respect, is a quilter.

In article
, Leo
Lichtman wrote:

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote: Maybe before you wrote that you should have stopped
ranting long enough to think about what Jim might really have been saying?
(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jeff, the objectionable part of Jim's post is: "And they make sure that
their wives and daughters have jumper cables and know how to use them
safely." If you can't see that, let me try to explain. There is an implied
meaning in that statement that women, as a group, are less qualified to do
simple mechanical tasks.

Less *knowledgeable* about simple mechanical tasks. I don't equate
'qualified' with 'knowledge'. Perhaps you're indulging in a little
sexism of your own?

Even if you can justify the statement
statistically, that is not the point. It carries the meaning that men are
superior to women in this regard, and need to look after them. Had he said,
"And they make sure that the other members of their family have jumper
cables and know how to use them safely," there would be no objection.

Who cares? The *fact* is, more females than males are ignorant of basic
simple mechanical stuff, and happy with it. I can't operate a sewing
machine because I've never taken the time to learn, because I'm not
interested. Same, I'd venture to say, applies to most men.

I know an expert (male) sailmaker.

One woman posted here implying she's an expert auto mechanic.

Tiny sample sizes.

What's the diff?

Anyone who wants to extrapolate what Jim said to some generic implied
putdown of women needs to get a life and find something useful to do
with their time.

PDW

Don Foreman wrote:
On 17 Oct 2005 15:33:47 -0700, "handysmurf"
wrote:


"Yeah. And they make sure that their wives and daughters
have jumper cables and know how to use them safely. "

why do you assume that everyone with a uterus is an idiot??



I know Jeff well enough to know that he makes no such assumption.

Well, it wasn't me who made the "wives and daughters" remark, it was
keyed in by Jim Stewart who was replying to the jumper cable analogy I
made in reply to your saying "The feckless suffer and bleat pitifully
while the competent improvise, get 'er done -- and then help others."

Such are the vagaries of newsgroup message threading....

And though I used slang terms which in my days were generally understood
to refer to males, "nebish" (A Yiddish term for a "loser".) and "guy", I
can easily see myself saying the same thing about "wives and daughters"
as Jim did. Well, maybe I would have said "wives and children" as I've
both sons and daughters.

He might better have said "family members less mechanically inclined",
which happens to be the women in his family -- who are very competent
in other areas. He works at the company his wife operates.

True, I retired into her business at about age 63 when my eyes got poor
enough so I was having trouble even seeing the ever shrinking electronic
components, let alone reading the markings (if any) on them. :-)

And, SWMBO will readily confess to being born without any technogenes at
all, and could care less. She's had 40 years of education and experience
helping people with disabilities, and built a much bigger business than
I ever did, without ever having to learn what a Phillips head screw was.
(If you questioned her on that subject she'd probably blush and assume
you were asking her something "off color".)

But, it's a great way for me to keep my hands and what's left of my
brain busy. There's all sorts of gym and playground type therapy
apparatus I get to build and keep in shape, computers and a network
wiring to learn about and use, and all the financal, legal and tax stuff
that goes along with keeping a small ma and pa business afloat. (Plus
I'm usually the only rooster in a flock of about 75 lovely ladies, and
best of all ....... I get to sleep with the boss.)

http://www.wkrp.org


Might you be able to could cook a meal, sew a seam or clean a house
better than most guys? Most women can, but it ain't a given.
Fitch, whom you've probably never heard of but many on this group
respect, is a quilter.

Well, I did learn to use a treadle operated Singer about twenty years
ago when I restored the one SWMBO's grandfather had made his living on
as a tailor. But about all I sewed on it were some seat covers for the
minibikes I was putting together for the sons and an armrest cover for
one of our cars.

Jeff


--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote: (clip) (she) built a much bigger business than I
ever did, without ever having to learn what a Phillips head screw was.
(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Q: What do you call the drink made by mixing vodka and milk of magnesia?
A: Phillips screwdriver.

Leo Lichtman wrote:

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote: (clip) (she) built a much bigger business than I
ever did, without ever having to learn what a Phillips head screw was.
(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Q: What do you call the drink made by mixing vodka and milk of magnesia?
A: Phillips screwdriver.

Not a Pile Driver?

Leo Lichtman wrote:
"Gerald Miller" wrote: clip)"Take the saran wrap back to the kitchen and put
all your faith in the Pill" (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
A guy walked into the coffee group the other morning and said, "I heard that
high school kids are using Saranwap in lieu of condoms. I wonder why...easy
to come by, I suppose."



The "by" part sounds like eggsackly what you *don't* want to have
happen, which leads me believe that there'll be lots more "love
children" running around thanks to those who depend on Saran wrap.

Or, to put it in lymeric form:


There was a young man of Cape Horn,
Who wished that he'd never been born.
And he wouldn't have been,
If his father had seen,
The Saran wrap he'd used was all torn.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

Let the record show that Gunner Asch wrote back on
Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:20:11 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking :
On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 20:02:39 GMT, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Let the record show that Gunner Asch wrote back on
Sun, 16 Oct 2005 14:17:02 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking :
On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 23:42:28 -0400, "NokNokMan"
wrote:

According to the weather station I recently acquired, we got 7.11" of rain
yesterday. Between 10:30pm and 11:30pm alone the sky dumped 2.77". This
all on top of over 7" last Saturday and off and on the rest of the week.
For the first time since I bought my house 10 years ago, the basement
flooded. There was about six inches of water; not too bad considering what
I've seen on TV from around my area and of course Katrina. But the question
was, how was I going to get rid of it? I tried the shopvac, but lugging 10
gallons of water at a pop up the outside stairs got old very quickly. Then
I looked over at the Turn Pro bandsaw and said to myself, "Hmmm, might be a
good time to try out the coolant pump." I took off shoes/socks,
disassembled the coolant container and was delighted to find a nice quality
cast-iron pump lurking down there. I mickey-moused some hoses together
eventually attaching a garden hose and ran it up the stairs. Found out how
to disconnect the electric to the saw from the pump (pump won't run unless
the saw's turned on). Moved the saw into the deepest water, set the pump
down, turned it on and in two hours the basement was dry. I don't think
I'll ever press this poor pump into that kind of duty again, but I'm sure
there wasn't a pump to be had at the big-box stores this weekend. BTW, the
saw works great, too!

Now THERE is thinking outside the box. Using your bandsaw to pump out
the basement.....

And here I thought he'd figured some way to use the bandsaw to "fling"
water.
All he did was figure out how to use the coolant pump on his bandsaw to
pump water ... still a clever application, and the ability to see the
operation part of "coolant pump" is "pump".

Like the time I needed to keep some candles dry, and was trying to
figure out how to wrap them in plastic wrap, when She Who is So Smart says
"Use a Condom." that's how I got the flat forehead; "Well," smack!,
"Du'h!". :-)

tschus
pyotr

You dont have a vacuum sealer????? What the $%&^!! kind of survivalist
are you???

In those days, a really cheap (broke) kind.

Somebody slap him..hard!!

She did.

Btw...I got another tank of welding gas during the week, another
freebe..G..guy gave me a 125CF tank filled with
2.5-CO2/7.5-Argon/90-Helium (for stainless steel I think).

As my son, the daughter in law and grand baby are living here now..I
decided to have a bit of fun with them...so I dug through my Stuff and
found an old Fiesta pack of resiviour tipped ribbed condoms, and
filled a bright pink one with the gas...DAMN you can really blow them
up! and tied string to one end..and carried it into the house tonight
and gave it to the 18 month old grand baby. She loves balloons...and
was toddling around the house with it. I went back outside and was
working in the shop below an open window when it suddenly dawned on
the kids what the balloon was.....

G

The old man still manages to mess with the kids heads pretty good
sometimes G

You are a vile and twisted individual. Will you be my friend?

tschus
pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich.
as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James
Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."