I got a lot of really old but almost entirely unused Airco torch tips today.
Many are of a kind I've never seen before. They are *old* new old stock, maybe
WWII vintage judging by other items in the same lot. They came in original
cardboard tubes which weren't airtight, and they have almost all tarnished. I
don't care if a torch tip is shiny or not, but I'm trying to read the number off
the things, and polishing 49 tips with Brasso would be tedious. I'm wondering if
there isn't some passive method like an overnight soak in citric acid or maybe
vinegar and salt that would clean off the tarnish safely.

Anyone?

Grant Erwin
Kirkland, Washington

I use a buffing wheel and rouge. Less effort than Brasso and they end
up nice and shiney. More effort than just soaking but faster. Only
removes tarnish off the outside.

Citric acid will also work, but not quite as shiney.

Dan

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
I got a lot of really old but almost entirely unused Airco torch tips
today.
Many are of a kind I've never seen before. They are *old* new old stock,
maybe
WWII vintage judging by other items in the same lot. They came in original
cardboard tubes which weren't airtight, and they have almost all
tarnished. I
don't care if a torch tip is shiny or not, but I'm trying to read the
number off
the things, and polishing 49 tips with Brasso would be tedious. I'm
wondering if
there isn't some passive method like an overnight soak in citric acid or
maybe
vinegar and salt that would clean off the tarnish safely.

Anyone?

Grant Erwin
Kirkland, Washington

Copper will not dissolve in sulfuric acid, but oxides do. You can restore
them to almost new looking condition by pickling them in such an acid.
Heating the acid will accelerate the cleaning action. (Tried method, not
something I read).
Don't use metal vessels. Wash well with clean water afterwards. An old
auto battery might be a source of acid, assuming you can't find it
elsewhere. Protect your eyes and hands. Yeah, I know, you already know
that. :-)

Hope this helps-----that's a lot of polishing otherwise.

Harold

Grant Erwin wrote:

I got a lot of really old but almost entirely unused Airco torch tips today.
Many are of a kind I've never seen before. They are *old* new old stock, maybe
WWII vintage judging by other items in the same lot. They came in original
cardboard tubes which weren't airtight, and they have almost all tarnished. I
don't care if a torch tip is shiny or not, but I'm trying to read the number off
the things, and polishing 49 tips with Brasso would be tedious. I'm wondering if
there isn't some passive method like an overnight soak in citric acid or maybe
vinegar and salt that would clean off the tarnish safely.

Anyone?

Grant Erwin
Kirkland, Washington

Perhaps one of the vibrating polishers typically used by reloaders. Not
too expensive for the small ones.

Pete C.

I decided to try vinegar and salt, having had excellent luck on brass before
with it. It worked amazingly well. I made up the solution in a little disposable
tupperware and put in a handful of tips and stuck it in the microwave for a
minute to let it get hot again, then simply took them out and rinsed them in hot
water, wearing rubber gloves. I didn't see any etching or weirdness and they now
all look new. Pretty surprising to see them go from dark brown to shiny copper
in a minute.

Grant

Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...

I got a lot of really old but almost entirely unused Airco torch tips

today.

Many are of a kind I've never seen before. They are *old* new old stock,

maybe

WWII vintage judging by other items in the same lot. They came in original
cardboard tubes which weren't airtight, and they have almost all

tarnished. I

don't care if a torch tip is shiny or not, but I'm trying to read the

number off

the things, and polishing 49 tips with Brasso would be tedious. I'm

wondering if

there isn't some passive method like an overnight soak in citric acid or

maybe

vinegar and salt that would clean off the tarnish safely.

Anyone?

Grant Erwin
Kirkland, Washington


Copper will not dissolve in sulfuric acid, but oxides do. You can restore
them to almost new looking condition by pickling them in such an acid.
Heating the acid will accelerate the cleaning action. (Tried method, not
something I read).
Don't use metal vessels. Wash well with clean water afterwards. An old
auto battery might be a source of acid, assuming you can't find it
elsewhere. Protect your eyes and hands. Yeah, I know, you already know
that. :-)

Hope this helps-----that's a lot of polishing otherwise.

Harold

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
I decided to try vinegar and salt, having had excellent luck on brass
before
with it. It worked amazingly well. I made up the solution in a little
disposable
tupperware and put in a handful of tips and stuck it in the microwave for
a
minute to let it get hot again, then simply took them out and rinsed them
in hot
water, wearing rubber gloves. I didn't see any etching or weirdness and
they now
all look new. Pretty surprising to see them go from dark brown to shiny
copper
in a minute.

Grant


Great choice! Brass in sulfuric would be a bad combination, so not only is
your system safer for handling, but safer for the products. Thanks for the
tip, Grant.

Harold

I decided to try vinegar and salt, having had excellent luck on brass before
with it. It worked amazingly well. I made up the solution in a little disposable
tupperware and put in a handful of tips and stuck it in the microwave for a
minute to let it get hot again, then simply took them out and rinsed them in hot
water, wearing rubber gloves. I didn't see any etching or weirdness and they now
all look new. Pretty surprising to see them go from dark brown to shiny copper
in a minute.

Grant

Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...

I got a lot of really old but almost entirely unused Airco torch tips

today.

Many are of a kind I've never seen before. They are *old* new old stock,

maybe

WWII vintage judging by other items in the same lot. They came in original
cardboard tubes which weren't airtight, and they have almost all

tarnished. I

don't care if a torch tip is shiny or not, but I'm trying to read the

number off

the things, and polishing 49 tips with Brasso would be tedious. I'm

wondering if

there isn't some passive method like an overnight soak in citric acid or

maybe

vinegar and salt that would clean off the tarnish safely.

Anyone?

Grant Erwin
Kirkland, Washington


Copper will not dissolve in sulfuric acid, but oxides do. You can restore
them to almost new looking condition by pickling them in such an acid.
Heating the acid will accelerate the cleaning action. (Tried method, not
something I read).
Don't use metal vessels. Wash well with clean water afterwards. An old
auto battery might be a source of acid, assuming you can't find it
elsewhere. Protect your eyes and hands. Yeah, I know, you already know
that. :-)

Hope this helps-----that's a lot of polishing otherwise.

Harold


I'm from the caveman days.... *metal* in the microwave??????
Ken.

In article , Grant Erwin says...

I decided to try vinegar and salt,

Vinegar (acetic acid) would probably have worked by itself.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

I'm from the caveman days.... *metal* in the microwave??????
Ken.

I do not understand this. I've always heard if you put metal in the microwave
that it would cause a spark. However, for years I have put small pieces of metal
FULLY IMMERSED IN A CLEANING SOLUTION in the microwave, and nothing bad has ever
happened. I think the resistivity of the liquid covering it may be enough to
limit the current which would otherwise flow in the metal.

GWE

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...

I'm from the caveman days.... *metal* in the microwave??????
Ken.

I do not understand this. I've always heard if you put metal in the
microwave that it would cause a spark. However, for years I have put small
pieces of metal FULLY IMMERSED IN A CLEANING SOLUTION in the microwave,
and nothing bad has ever happened. I think the resistivity of the liquid
covering it may be enough to limit the current which would otherwise flow
in the metal.

GWE

It depends upon the microwave: I once had a Litton MW that could handle up
to 3/4" metal. This enabled me to "cook" the old aluminum-panned TV dinners.

The one I have now will make sparks on the metallic trim of a dish.

In article ,
"RAM^3" wrote:

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...

I'm from the caveman days.... *metal* in the microwave??????
Ken.

I do not understand this. I've always heard if you put metal in the
microwave that it would cause a spark. However, for years I have put small
pieces of metal FULLY IMMERSED IN A CLEANING SOLUTION in the microwave,
and nothing bad has ever happened. I think the resistivity of the liquid
covering it may be enough to limit the current which would otherwise flow
in the metal.

GWE

It depends upon the microwave: I once had a Litton MW that could handle up
to 3/4" metal. This enabled me to "cook" the old aluminum-panned TV dinners.

The one I have now will make sparks on the metallic trim of a dish.



A extremely large factor (perhaps the most significant of all factors)
in all cases is "How much metal stuff relative to not-metal stuff is
present in the cavity?"

*EVERY* microwave I've ever encountered will produce a "lightning storm"
if it's loaded with "mostly metal" and powered up.

*MOST* microwaves I've encountered will cope just fine with *SMALL
AMOUNTS* of metal accompanied by *LARGE AMOUNTS* of not-metal.

Then there are the tiny handful of units I've encountered that are
either mis-tuned, or have ultra-huge power outputs, where even a missed
snippet of the tinfoil-backed paper wrapper still stuck to the packaging
will make a lightshow (and possibly even a fire) that'll scare the
bejeebers out of you as you frantically jab at the stop button.

In the "fully immersed" scenario mentioned above, the quantity of
cleaning solution is sufficient to overcome the metal's presence,
resulting in a "no issues" situation. The Litton mentioned above was
probably a low-power unit - I'd bet on it being under 700 watts, if not
lower.

The "metallic trim" unit is probably a combination of high power and the
exact shape of the metal in the trim - Some shapes won't spark in a
microwave at any power level, no matter how hard you try. Other shapes -
particularly those with "points" or "spines", will start sparking
instantly when the power is turned on.

When you get right down to where the rubber hits the road, it all
depends on how the material in question resonates in the microwave
frequency bands. Water (which is what microwaves are tuned for)
resonates quite nicely, and the radio energy gets turned into heat.
Metal resonates differently, if at all, and the radio energy becomes
electrical arcs.

--
Don Bruder - - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004.
Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password in the
subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me) address.
See http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html for full details.

Don Bruder wrote:

In article ,
"RAM^3" wrote:

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...

I'm from the caveman days.... *metal* in the microwave??????
Ken.

I do not understand this. I've always heard if you put metal in the
microwave that it would cause a spark. However, for years I have put small
pieces of metal FULLY IMMERSED IN A CLEANING SOLUTION in the microwave,
and nothing bad has ever happened. I think the resistivity of the liquid
covering it may be enough to limit the current which would otherwise flow
in the metal.

GWE

It depends upon the microwave: I once had a Litton MW that could handle up
to 3/4" metal. This enabled me to "cook" the old aluminum-panned TV dinners.

The one I have now will make sparks on the metallic trim of a dish.



A extremely large factor (perhaps the most significant of all factors)
in all cases is "How much metal stuff relative to not-metal stuff is
present in the cavity?"

*EVERY* microwave I've ever encountered will produce a "lightning storm"
if it's loaded with "mostly metal" and powered up.

*MOST* microwaves I've encountered will cope just fine with *SMALL
AMOUNTS* of metal accompanied by *LARGE AMOUNTS* of not-metal.

Then there are the tiny handful of units I've encountered that are
either mis-tuned, or have ultra-huge power outputs, where even a missed
snippet of the tinfoil-backed paper wrapper still stuck to the packaging
will make a lightshow (and possibly even a fire) that'll scare the
bejeebers out of you as you frantically jab at the stop button.

In the "fully immersed" scenario mentioned above, the quantity of
cleaning solution is sufficient to overcome the metal's presence,
resulting in a "no issues" situation. The Litton mentioned above was
probably a low-power unit - I'd bet on it being under 700 watts, if not
lower.

The "metallic trim" unit is probably a combination of high power and the
exact shape of the metal in the trim - Some shapes won't spark in a
microwave at any power level, no matter how hard you try. Other shapes -
particularly those with "points" or "spines", will start sparking
instantly when the power is turned on.

When you get right down to where the rubber hits the road, it all
depends on how the material in question resonates in the microwave
frequency bands. Water (which is what microwaves are tuned for)
resonates quite nicely, and the radio energy gets turned into heat.
Metal resonates differently, if at all, and the radio energy becomes
electrical arcs.

--
Don Bruder - - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004.
Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password in the
subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me) address.
See http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html for full details.

The whole "no metal in the microwave" thing traces back to the
beginnings of the consumer microwave oven, the overall lack of knowledge
and the assumption that consumers would not understand the details of
how to safely use metal in a microwave.

I've read many more recent microwave instructions that instruct in the
use of aluminum foil to protect areas of food from overcooking, and some
microwaves have metal racks to provide a second cooking level.

The real problem area are sharp points that concentrate the microwave
energy and act as lightening rods and various small pieces of metal like
twist ties and metallic trim on plates which will overheat.

I've scared friends when I've put entire stainless steel bowls in the
microwave to warm the contents. The bowl has a rolled edge so it will
not readily concentrate the microwave energy to cause arcing. The bowl
also contains a reasonable amount of contents to absorb the energy.

When I'm microwaving something that will need to be stirred frequently,
I'll simply leave the metal spoon in the container and insure that the
handle is not too close to the walls of the microwave. Much easier than
taking the spoon out constantly and having it drip on stuff.

Pete C.

The real problem area are sharp points that concentrate the microwave
energy and act as lightening rods and various small pieces of metal like
twist ties and metallic trim on plates which will overheat.

This is exactly it. As long as there are not regions of significantly
different potential, there will be no arcs. Smooth transtions will not
cause arcing.

If you want to prove it tear off a piece of aluminum foil and stick it
in the microwave. Nothing will happen. Now take the same piece and
crumple it up and flatten it back out loosely. There will be all sorts
of wild arcing across the peaks.

JW

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , Grant Erwin says...

I decided to try vinegar and salt,

Vinegar (acetic acid) would probably have worked by itself.

Jim

I agree, although perhaps not quite as fast.

Harold

"Don Bruder" wrote in message
...
The Litton mentioned above was
probably a low-power unit - I'd bet on it being under 700 watts, if not
lower.


Actually not.

800 Watts according to its specs.

Its ability to handle metal was one of its best selling points - along with
being $100 cheaper than the competing Amana.

It was Litton's top-of-the-line in 1974.

At last report, it's still going strong.

In article ,
"RAM^3" wrote:

"Don Bruder" wrote in message
...
The Litton mentioned above was
probably a low-power unit - I'd bet on it being under 700 watts, if not
lower.


Actually not.

800 Watts according to its specs.

Its ability to handle metal was one of its best selling points - along with
being $100 cheaper than the competing Amana.

It was Litton's top-of-the-line in 1974.

At last report, it's still going strong.



Cool

"Dino-tech" in action

I wonder what made it more "metal-proof" than others? Maybe the tuning?

I just plain don't recall what the brand was (gimme a break! It's been
almost 20 years!), but mom had this ancient thing that you couldn't kill
if you drove over it with a tank - and if you tossed a wad of tinfoil
into it, it would make a nifty light show

Thing lasted for years, but finally went tango-uniform when mom was on a
cleaning frenzy and knocked the nearly full bucket of ammonia water she
as using on the windows onto/into it. Even after rinsing and drying
repeatedly, it never recovered. I expect the ammonia probably attacked
the copper traces on the control pad.

--
Don Bruder - - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004.
Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password in the
subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me) address.
See http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html for full details.

I suppose the sharp edges of gold rings on cups are the edges themselves and not
the band of metal that fuses and pops. I think currents are generated
and arcs are another thing. Steel is high enough to inhibit current - eddy currents...
Al gold and copper isn't .

Martin
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



jw wrote:
The real problem area are sharp points that concentrate the microwave
energy and act as lightening rods and various small pieces of metal like
twist ties and metallic trim on plates which will overheat.


This is exactly it. As long as there are not regions of significantly
different potential, there will be no arcs. Smooth transtions will not
cause arcing.

If you want to prove it tear off a piece of aluminum foil and stick it
in the microwave. Nothing will happen. Now take the same piece and
crumple it up and flatten it back out loosely. There will be all sorts
of wild arcing across the peaks.

JW


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

"jw" wrote in message
oups.com...
|
|
| The real problem area are sharp points that concentrate the microwave
| energy and act as lightening rods and various small pieces of metal like
| twist ties and metallic trim on plates which will overheat.
|
| This is exactly it. As long as there are not regions of significantly
| different potential, there will be no arcs. Smooth transtions will not
| cause arcing.
|
| If you want to prove it tear off a piece of aluminum foil and stick it
| in the microwave. Nothing will happen. Now take the same piece and
| crumple it up and flatten it back out loosely. There will be all sorts
| of wild arcing across the peaks.
|
| JW

I had a microwave with a factory metal rack in it. Messed with some
folks' heads for sure!

For a fun trick, take that AOL CD and nuke it for a second or so. Very
cool patterns. The eddy currents swirling all over the place blow thin
places like fuses, making for some nifty but brief fireworks. If you can
magnify the viewing as much as possible, you will find some really cool
patterns burned into the aluminum film. The surface isn't so smooth
anymore, though!

My 10 year old daughter put a Wendy's burger, with foil wrapper in the
nuker the other day, then walked away. Burned away some of the plastic
coating on the inside of the door screen where the foil came close. I
cleaned up what I could, cut the bad plastic away, and put on some 3" clear
electric tape to make it as invisible as possible. Kinda hard to get the
crud that blew through the grid into the door cavity, though, and it fogs up
on occasion, which is a real PITA. I never saw what the burger and wrapper
looked like; that would have been cool.

I just salvaged our old 1980 microwave - now we have a new higher power higher tech one.
It was a monster - and it lasted. Fuse was ok - scrapped out lots of stuff.
It had a metal rack as well and a metal tip thermo probe (metal wires) .

I think the idea is wavelength - if not a resonant size then it won't heat or absorb.

Like Radar on naval ships. I have seen Navy lock down doors that are sawed in two
non-alike sizes. Semi-dutch like. When they fired up the 200' antenna (big baby)
it worked just fine but made a door red hot and a couple of other things on the ship.
The door was the only egress that was nice into or from the compartment. There was
a cable way for emergencies...

My coffee mug had a gold ring around the rim - was heated once and the ring opened.

What did the final dead - I bet the filament burnt - three large potatoes cooking.
High power load I suspect.



Martin
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



carl mciver wrote:
"jw" wrote in message
oups.com...
|
|
| The real problem area are sharp points that concentrate the microwave
| energy and act as lightening rods and various small pieces of metal like
| twist ties and metallic trim on plates which will overheat.
|
| This is exactly it. As long as there are not regions of significantly
| different potential, there will be no arcs. Smooth transtions will not
| cause arcing.
|
| If you want to prove it tear off a piece of aluminum foil and stick it
| in the microwave. Nothing will happen. Now take the same piece and
| crumple it up and flatten it back out loosely. There will be all sorts
| of wild arcing across the peaks.
|
| JW

I had a microwave with a factory metal rack in it. Messed with some
folks' heads for sure!

For a fun trick, take that AOL CD and nuke it for a second or so. Very
cool patterns. The eddy currents swirling all over the place blow thin
places like fuses, making for some nifty but brief fireworks. If you can
magnify the viewing as much as possible, you will find some really cool
patterns burned into the aluminum film. The surface isn't so smooth
anymore, though!

My 10 year old daughter put a Wendy's burger, with foil wrapper in the
nuker the other day, then walked away. Burned away some of the plastic
coating on the inside of the door screen where the foil came close. I
cleaned up what I could, cut the bad plastic away, and put on some 3" clear
electric tape to make it as invisible as possible. Kinda hard to get the
crud that blew through the grid into the door cavity, though, and it fogs up
on occasion, which is a real PITA. I never saw what the burger and wrapper
looked like; that would have been cool.


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

For a fun trick, take that AOL CD and nuke it for a second or so. Very
cool patterns. The eddy currents swirling all over the place blow thin
places like fuses, making for some nifty but brief fireworks. If you can
magnify the viewing as much as possible, you will find some really cool
patterns burned into the aluminum film. The surface isn't so smooth
anymore, though!

Emphasize the 1 or 2 seconds. Anymore and the thing starts burning and
you will never get that smell out of the microwave! It is pretty cool
looking.

JW

"jw" wrote in message
oups.com...
|
| For a fun trick, take that AOL CD and nuke it for a second or so.
Very
| cool patterns. The eddy currents swirling all over the place blow thin
| places like fuses, making for some nifty but brief fireworks. If you
can
| magnify the viewing as much as possible, you will find some really cool
| patterns burned into the aluminum film. The surface isn't so smooth
| anymore, though!
|
| Emphasize the 1 or 2 seconds. Anymore and the thing starts burning and
| you will never get that smell out of the microwave! It is pretty cool
| looking.

I guess that depends on how much you care about the microwave. At work
there are two microwaves that I donated, which left my house for one reason
or the other. The big one used to be an over the range whose replacement
fan cost two thirds the cost of a new one, so it became a table top. I
pushed the start button and just as fast hit the stop button. I only saw
the fireworks out of the corner of my eye; I wanted to make sure I didn't
miss the stop button! A fellow did come running because he thought I was
being stupid (well, kinda...)

If you do a google search for "bronze casting" you will eventually find
a person that has a technique for melting bronze in a microwave to pour
into a ceramic mold. See http://home.c2i.net/metaphor/mvpage.html
If this does not wok try looking for info on "The Reid Technique" or RT

In article ,
Bob Miller wrote:

If you do a google search for "bronze casting" you will eventually find
a person that has a technique for melting bronze in a microwave to pour
into a ceramic mold. See http://home.c2i.net/metaphor/mvpage.html
If this does not wok try looking for info on "The Reid Technique" or RT

Don Bruder
Strictly a typo. Sometimes the fingers are slightly behind or ahead of
the mind.

In article ,
Bob Miller wrote:

Don Bruder
Strictly a typo. Sometimes the fingers are slightly behind or ahead of
the mind.

Even so, ain't it amazing come of the things they type when we ain't
looking?

--
Don Bruder - - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004.
Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password in the
subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me) address.
See http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html for full details.

"Don Bruder" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Bob Miller wrote:

Don Bruder
Strictly a typo. Sometimes the fingers are slightly behind or ahead of
the mind.

Even so, ain't it amazing *come* of the things they type when we ain't
looking?


Chuckle! Is there a hidden message here? Don? g

Harold

In article ,
"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote:

"Don Bruder" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Bob Miller wrote:

Don Bruder
Strictly a typo. Sometimes the fingers are slightly behind or ahead of
the mind.

Even so, ain't it amazing *come* of the things they type when we ain't
looking?


Chuckle! Is there a hidden message here? Don? g

Harold



AUGH!!!!!! Hoist by my own petard! :-P

--
Don Bruder - - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004.
Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password in the
subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me) address.
See http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html for full details.