Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Silvan
 
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Default What can I do with a lathe?

I'm looking for some inspiration here... I've played with a bit of simple
drill press wood turning, found turning addictive, and I'm planning to
purchase a lathe sometime soonish.

I have a small shop, and I favor small projects. I'm thinking of a "hobby
lathe" since I'm more likely to turn spindles for doll furniture than
people sized stuff.

The spread on the Taig lathe in the Lee Valley catalog got me thinking about
buying a *metal* lathe instead of a wood lathe. I've since done a bit of
reading about that one, and the similarly sized Sherline.

I'm always building things out of whatever materials I can scrounge for free
(not much budget), and I constantly run into situations where I wish I
could fabricate a bit of something. I have a $200 bandsaw, and have built
a lot of things out of angle iron and bar stock (using fasteners... I
can't weld), but that's about as far as my metalworking experience goes.

So what I'm looking to get out of this post is a sense of just what people
*do* with metal lathes, and what I could learn to do on something like a
Taig lathe. Other than issues of scale, what can I do with one of those
big $20,000 industrial lathes that I couldn't do with a small hobby
machine?

I've been googling around, but I just don't have much of a sense of this.
Other than a few really obvious things, like the turned brass finials on my
fireplace, I can't look at the world around me and say "that was made with
a lathe."

Most of the FAQs for this group are just too far beyond my experience to
make much sense. Bookstores have woodworking sections, but I've never seen
diddly squat about metalworking. I've been thinking about taking some
classes at the local community college, but I'm a truck driver, and my
schedule is extremely irregular. Plus they don't seem to have anything
that's geared toward the weekend swarf maker.

Anyway, I'm sorry I'm blathering on so. I've about decided to get a metal
lathe no matter what, but it would be nice to have a list of things I can
tell SWMBO I can make with the thing.

Thanks...

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

  #2   Report Post  
Loren Coe
 
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Default What can I do with a lathe?

In article , Silvan wrote:
I'm looking for some inspiration here... I've played with a bit of simple
drill press wood turning, found turning addictive, and I'm planning to
purchase a lathe sometime soonish.

I have a small shop, and I favor small projects. I'm thinking of a "hobby
lathe" since I'm more likely to turn spindles for doll furniture than
people sized stuff.

The spread on the Taig lathe in the Lee Valley catalog got me thinking about
buying a *metal* lathe instead of a wood lathe. I've since done a bit of
reading about that one, and the similarly sized Sherline.


for tiny non-steel parts, preferably synthetics, these s/b okay.


I'm always building things out of whatever materials I can scrounge for free
(not much budget), and I constantly run into situations where I wish I
could fabricate a bit of something. I have a $200 bandsaw, and have built
a lot of things out of angle iron and bar stock (using fasteners... I
can't weld), but that's about as far as my metalworking experience goes.

So what I'm looking to get out of this post is a sense of just what people
*do* with metal lathes, and what I could learn to do on something like a
Taig lathe. Other than issues of scale, what can I do with one of those
big $20,000 industrial lathes that I couldn't do with a small hobby
machine?


well, you could actually reduce the dia. of a 1/2" steel rod, maybe
even key it and thread it. that doesn't take a $20k tool, but the
taig won't do it.

....
Anyway, I'm sorry I'm blathering on so. I've about decided to get a metal
lathe no matter what, but it would be nice to have a list of things I can
tell SWMBO I can make with the thing. Thanks...


my first project was to thread an acme nut to repair a dish mover.
big grins and saved a dime. later i found out where to buy the nut
and did so rather than make another. still was big grins, i really
didn't know anything and that nut is still working. the replacment
ones are fiber/Delron, mine is steel.

actually, that's the only "real" project i have completed, and it
_could_ have been done in fiber on a Taig. mostly, i just grin
everytime i walk past my (Grizzly 4015), more of a possession
these days than a tool. --Loren

  #3   Report Post  
Gary Coffman
 
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Default What can I do with a lathe?

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 01:19:27 -0400, Silvan wrote:
So what I'm looking to get out of this post is a sense of just what people
*do* with metal lathes, and what I could learn to do on something like a
Taig lathe. Other than issues of scale, what can I do with one of those
big $20,000 industrial lathes that I couldn't do with a small hobby
machine?


One thing you can do on even a $399 Harbor Freight lathe which you
can't do on a Taig or Sherline is cut single point threads. To do that,
the carriage has to be geared to the spindle so that the cutter's advance
is timed to the rotation of the work. This is done either via change gears
or a quick change gearbox (preferred) on most metal lathes.

Neither the Taig nor the Sherline are built that way. All cutter motions
are achieved by manually advancing handwheels. This also means it
is sometimes difficult to get a fine finish on the workpiece, ie because
you aren't as smoothly advancing the cutter as a lathe with power feeds
would.

Fortunately this isn't often a drawback because, for the size work the
Taig or Sherline is capable of doing, ordinary tap and die sets are
sufficient to cut standard threads (you're still in a bind if you need
a non-standard thread), and a high finish can be obtained with a wrap
of emery cloth applied by hand to the turning work piece.

Taig and Sherline machines are 1) very small 2) not very rigid
3) not very powerful 4) need to turn fast. But they are well made
and as precise as you care to be. You can do just about any lathe
operation on one of them that you could do on bigger machines,
except threading. But the size of the work you can do will be
*much* smaller.

Mostly, the advantage of larger lathes is that they *are* larger.
The size work you can do on a Taig is really very small, considerably
less than the published swing and center to center distance might
lead you to believe. (Anything over about 1 inch in diameter will really
be a challenge.)

I have a Taig, and I use it frequently for very small parts which need
to be turned very rapidly, ie high spindle speed is needed for very
small diameter parts to get the surface cutting speed up into the
right range for good cutting performance.

But I also have a 13x40 2 hp bench lathe, and a heavy 15x60 7.5 hp
lathe, so when projects won't fit on the Taig (which is often), I've got
suitably larger and heavier equipment to handle them. These latter
machines won't turn as fast as the Taig, and their chucks won't close
down on as small work, so for the tiny stuff, the Taig is the machine
of choice. For everything else, the bigger machines are better.

Bigger machines don't have to cost $20,000 either. My 13x40 came
from MSC's scratch and dent sale for $1500 (new, dropped once).
My big 15x60 Clausing I got in a trade for an import 3-N-1 machine
and $650 cash. (Note that the Clausing *was* an $18,000 machine
when it was new, but I didn't buy it new.)

Still, the Taig only cost me $500, brand new, with every (then) available
accessory. I consider it a very good machine for work appropriate to its
size, and the package I bought was a very good value (the cost of tooling
will often double the price of the basic machine).

Gary
  #4   Report Post  
jim rozen
 
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Default What can I do with a lathe?

In article , Silvan says...

So what I'm looking to get out of this post is a sense of just what people
*do* with metal lathes, and what I could learn to do on something like a
Taig lathe. Other than issues of scale, what can I do with one of those
big $20,000 industrial lathes that I couldn't do with a small hobby
machine?


Gary's post pretty much covered the differences between the
big 'uns and the small 'uns.

FWIW I could say that I do two things with my metalworking
tools as a general rule. First off they are used primarily
to make parts for other metalworking tools. There, I said
it, and if anyone tells my wife I'll be really unhappy.

The other think I do is tinker with vintage motorbikes,
and having machinery to do so makes *that* hobby a good
deal cheaper.

The lathe and mill allow me to do things like:

Re-work stripped exhaust port threads on cylinder heads

Repair stripped out idle air screw threads in carbs

Fabricate custom fasteners

Make special purpose tools and wrenches

Re-surface brake drums

Repair turn signal stalks

Repair broken carb bodies

That's a quick run-down on the types of
jobs that get done in the home shop, just to
keep the bikes on the road.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

  #5   Report Post  
Keith Marshall
 
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Default What can I do with a lathe?

Here's one thing you can do with a lathe:

One of my son's friends asked me to help him get his mower going last week.
He mows neighbors' yards for extra money and was short on cash so I told him
I'd see what I could do. It turned out the starter solenoid was dead. We
could hear it clicking but it wasn't passing power to the starter. At first
I suggested he buy one the next day but he had a couple of yards he needed
to mow early and asked if I could do anything with the old one.

I drilled out the rivets and found that there was a plastic piece that had
broken off inside. When energized the coil pushed a steel plunger down
which pushed on this plastic piece. The plastic piece was supposed to be
attached to the center of the washer that made contact across the two bolts
that the wires were attached to completing the circuit to the starter.

I chucked the washer into my lathe and drilled a small hole into the center
of the remaining part of the plastic. Then I took a brass screw, cut it
down to the diameter of the broken plastic piece and then cut the end a bit
smaller so that it would fit in the hole I'd drilled. I then cut it to
length, put a dab of superglue on it and pressed it into the hole and put
everything back together with pop rivets. It cranked right up and has been
working ever since!

So that's one thing you can do with a lathe. :-)

The lathe's you're looking at would have done this job very well but there
are a few other things that they would not be well suited for. You should
take a look at this site for info on some alternatives:

http://www.mini-lathe.com

I have a JET 9x20 which is a bit bigger than the ones at that site but it's
still small enough to fit on a bench. The JET is probably a bit overpriced
for the JET name but you can get the same basic lathe from Harbor Freight
for a bit less:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45861

It's often on sale for $600-$700 and I believe it includes many extras such
as a steady rest and a follow rest that cost extra with the minis. Grizzly
and Enco sell their own versions of this same lathe too.

Best Regards,
Keith Marshall


"I'm not grown up enough to be so old!"


"Silvan" wrote in message
...
I'm looking for some inspiration here... I've played with a bit of simple
drill press wood turning, found turning addictive, and I'm planning to
purchase a lathe sometime soonish.

I have a small shop, and I favor small projects. I'm thinking of a "hobby
lathe" since I'm more likely to turn spindles for doll furniture than
people sized stuff.

The spread on the Taig lathe in the Lee Valley catalog got me thinking

about
buying a *metal* lathe instead of a wood lathe. I've since done a bit of
reading about that one, and the similarly sized Sherline.

I'm always building things out of whatever materials I can scrounge for

free
(not much budget), and I constantly run into situations where I wish I
could fabricate a bit of something. I have a $200 bandsaw, and have built
a lot of things out of angle iron and bar stock (using fasteners... I
can't weld), but that's about as far as my metalworking experience goes.

So what I'm looking to get out of this post is a sense of just what people
*do* with metal lathes, and what I could learn to do on something like a
Taig lathe. Other than issues of scale, what can I do with one of those
big $20,000 industrial lathes that I couldn't do with a small hobby
machine?

I've been googling around, but I just don't have much of a sense of this.
Other than a few really obvious things, like the turned brass finials on

my
fireplace, I can't look at the world around me and say "that was made with
a lathe."

Most of the FAQs for this group are just too far beyond my experience to
make much sense. Bookstores have woodworking sections, but I've never

seen
diddly squat about metalworking. I've been thinking about taking some
classes at the local community college, but I'm a truck driver, and my
schedule is extremely irregular. Plus they don't seem to have anything
that's geared toward the weekend swarf maker.

Anyway, I'm sorry I'm blathering on so. I've about decided to get a metal
lathe no matter what, but it would be nice to have a list of things I can
tell SWMBO I can make with the thing.

Thanks...

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/





  #7   Report Post  
Silvan
 
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Default What can I do with a lathe?

Keith Marshall wrote:

So that's one thing you can do with a lathe. :-)


Thanks for the food for thought. I can't afford to go in for much more than
the Taig at the moment, but perhaps I should wait until I can. I've
learned why having a real drill press is the way to go, even though 90% of
the jobs I do could have been done on my old, small one. It's probably the
same lesson here. Some day I'll need the extra capacity, so I should buy
the biggest machine I can possibly manage.

There's tooling to consider too. I don't even know what I would need, but
I'd imagine I could spend quite a lot.

I'm due to be allowed to buy a new computer soon. If I use this one for
another four years (not really a problem, since I don't play games anymore,
and I run Linux, where there's nothing exciting to do with high performance
anyway), I could spend $1,000 on this wild hare.

I can already hear my wife screaming.

Are there any good books I should look for? Maybe go to the library...

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

  #8   Report Post  
Nicholas Carter
 
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Default What can I do with a lathe?

Not that the Taig and Sherline machines aren't small, and relatively
low powered, and as people have noted, and the Taig won't single point
threads as it comes stock from the factory (The Sherline has a
threading accessory though). Both will work steel with little problem
though, as long as you keep within some reasonable size constraints. I
have turned steel rod up to 1" dia. on the Taig, and worked discs of
steel about 3" dia for certain projects. The work envelope is
considerably smaller than a bigger lathe (no surprise there).

To see what people do with the Taig, go to my website
www.cartertools.com and look at the pictures section, where I have
pictures of various customer's work.

Join the various yahoogroups dedicated to the various lathes,
taigtools, sherline and 7x10

Nick
On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 22:45:08 GMT, Loren Coe
wrote:


well, you could actually reduce the dia. of a 1/2" steel rod, maybe
even key it and thread it. that doesn't take a $20k tool, but the
taig won't do it.


  #9   Report Post  
dann mann
 
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Default What can I do with a lathe?

I have a nice 6 inch Craftsman lathe you can have for $500




  #10   Report Post  
Gerald Miller
 
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Default What can I do with a lathe?

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 02:11:36 -0400, Silvan
wrote:



Thanks for the food for thought. I can't afford to go in for much more than
the Taig at the moment, but perhaps I should wait until I can. I've
learned why having a real drill press is the way to go, even though 90% of
the jobs I do could have been done on my old, small one. It's probably the
same lesson here. Some day I'll need the extra capacity, so I should buy
the biggest machine I can possibly manage.

NO! Buy the Taig now and get some fun out of life, you will never
learn younger. Whatever you are able to afford by way of a larger
lathe in the future, I doubt that you will let the tiny lathe go as it
is so handy when you need that small part done "just so"
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada


  #11   Report Post  
Dave Martindale
 
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Default What can I do with a lathe?

Gary Coffman writes:

One thing you can do on even a $399 Harbor Freight lathe which you
can't do on a Taig or Sherline is cut single point threads. To do that,
the carriage has to be geared to the spindle so that the cutter's advance
is timed to the rotation of the work. This is done either via change gears
or a quick change gearbox (preferred) on most metal lathes.


Neither the Taig nor the Sherline are built that way. All cutter motions
are achieved by manually advancing handwheels. This also means it
is sometimes difficult to get a fine finish on the workpiece, ie because
you aren't as smoothly advancing the cutter as a lathe with power feeds
would.


That's true of the basic lathes as delivered. But Sherline sells a
threading attachment that drives the leadscrew from the spindle just
like any other change-gear lathe. (It is designed to have the work
turned by hand crank, not under motor power, which is a problem in some
cases). Sherline also has a power feed option that will give you
consistent finishes but won't do threading. Or you can get the
CNC-ready version of the lathe, put a stepper motor on the leadscrew,
and control it either with Sherline's CNC linear controller or a
computer and drive electronics. Again, this doesn't do threading, but
it does provide controllable carriage speed (and distance) - all using
Sherline accessories.

Then there is the Frog, for both Taig and Sherline. It's a stepper
motor plus electronic controller. It drives the carriage via the rack
on the Taig and the leadscrew on the Sherline. The Frog provides
variable speed/distance power feed like the Sherline indexer. It also
does threading, using a spindle rotation sensor to synchronize carriage
movement to spindle rotation.

Dave
  #12   Report Post  
Gary Coffman
 
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Default What can I do with a lathe?

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:23:52 +0000 (UTC), (Dave Martindale) wrote:
Gary Coffman writes:

One thing you can do on even a $399 Harbor Freight lathe which you
can't do on a Taig or Sherline is cut single point threads. To do that,
the carriage has to be geared to the spindle so that the cutter's advance
is timed to the rotation of the work. This is done either via change gears
or a quick change gearbox (preferred) on most metal lathes.


Neither the Taig nor the Sherline are built that way. All cutter motions
are achieved by manually advancing handwheels. This also means it
is sometimes difficult to get a fine finish on the workpiece, ie because
you aren't as smoothly advancing the cutter as a lathe with power feeds
would.


That's true of the basic lathes as delivered. But Sherline sells a
threading attachment that drives the leadscrew from the spindle just
like any other change-gear lathe. (It is designed to have the work
turned by hand crank, not under motor power, which is a problem in some
cases). Sherline also has a power feed option that will give you
consistent finishes but won't do threading. Or you can get the
CNC-ready version of the lathe, put a stepper motor on the leadscrew,
and control it either with Sherline's CNC linear controller or a
computer and drive electronics. Again, this doesn't do threading, but
it does provide controllable carriage speed (and distance) - all using
Sherline accessories.

Then there is the Frog, for both Taig and Sherline. It's a stepper
motor plus electronic controller. It drives the carriage via the rack
on the Taig and the leadscrew on the Sherline. The Frog provides
variable speed/distance power feed like the Sherline indexer. It also
does threading, using a spindle rotation sensor to synchronize carriage
movement to spindle rotation.


I was going to mention all that, but decided not to. All of what you
say is true, but none of it applies to either basic machine as delivered,
and requires retrofitting by the owner. For someone just buying a first
lathe, I thought that was asking a bit much. OTOH, the HF minilathe
will cut threads right out of the box, and it works the way all the lathes
in the metalshop textbooks work, so the novice isn't confounded with
concepts that are a bit unorthodox.

Gary
  #13   Report Post  
Old Nick
 
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Default What can I do with a lathe?

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 01:19:27 -0400, Silvan
wrote something
.......and in reply I say!:

Sorry. "To every season: Turn turn, turn,"
************************************************** ****************************************
Whenever you have to prove to yourself that you are
not something, you probably are.

Nick White --- HEAD:Hertz Music
Please remove ns from my header address to reply via email
!!
")
_/ )
( )
_//- \__/
  #15   Report Post  
Silvan
 
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Default What can I do with a lathe?

I appreciate all the comments, folks. I've come to my senses and decided
not to acquire another money-sucking habit just yet.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/



  #16   Report Post  
Loren Coe
 
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Default What can I do with a lathe?

In article , Silvan wrote:
I appreciate all the comments, folks. I've come to my senses and decided
not to acquire another money-sucking habit just yet.


hmmm, i think i responded earlier, but you describe it perfectly for
many of us. still, i get big grins just _knowing_ i have some amount
of machinery. maybe a macho thing? most likely tool "deprivation"
as a young man. grin regards, --Loren

  #17   Report Post  
Rex B
 
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Default What can I do with a lathe?


|Most of the FAQs for this group are just too far beyond my experience to
|make much sense. Bookstores have woodworking sections, but I've never seen
|diddly squat about metalworking.

Check out the used bookstores, usually in the "Industrial" section.
I've found a number of metal shop textbooks that have been invaluable.
If you luck out you might also find a "Machinery's Handbook"
Rex in Fort Worth
  #20   Report Post  
Rex B
 
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Default What can I do with a lathe?

|If you luck out you might also find a "Machinery's Handbook"
|Rex in Fort Worth
|
| That's where I got one of my copies [the 7th edition (1940).]

I noticed MH available for download in alt.binaries.e-books.technical
I don't have a clue how one would reassemble all the files though
Rex in Fort Worth


  #21   Report Post  
DoN. Nichols
 
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Default What can I do with a lathe?

In article , Rex B wrote:
|If you luck out you might also find a "Machinery's Handbook"


[ ... ]

I noticed MH available for download in alt.binaries.e-books.technical
I don't have a clue how one would reassemble all the files though


Almost certainly a violation of copyright, and whoever uploaded
it, and everyone who downloads and uses it are potentially subject to
prosecution. (The most likely one to be prosecuted would be whoever
uploaded it -- if he can be identified.)

I can't have a try, because I don't receive any alt.binaries.*
newsgroups on my news server (by choice).

Since there is no advertising in _Machinery's Handbook_, they
depend on sales for all of their income. If everybody downloaded this
one, and didn't buy a copy, they would go out of business, and you would
have no such resources available.

I don't object to scanning and posting (on a web page) of things
long out of copyright, and unlikely to be re-published (e.g. Rose's
two-volume _Modern Machine Shop Practice_, but things still in
copyright, and still in publication are a different matter.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
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