Hello
I want to use my drilling machine (rexon 3300) as a milling machine by
adding a crossing table
Is there anybody who had the same idea?
Is it realistic? (if I don't need a awful accuracy)

"Gil HASH" wrote in message
...
Hello
I want to use my drilling machine (rexon 3300) as a milling machine by
adding a crossing table
Is there anybody who had the same idea?
Is it realistic? (if I don't need a awful accuracy)

Well, you'll get AWFUL accuracy, unless you get one beefy X-Y table, and
your spindle is nearly perfect.

LLoyd

Right on, Lloyd! Other RCM posts over the years have resoundingly
recommended against doing this. Most of us have tried it; it can be done;
it is inherently dangerous; it is only suitable for very light milling; it
is a good way to become adquainted with the ballistic qualities of your
flying spindle. Get a good table, but use it for accurate hole location,
not milling.

Bob Swinney
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" wrote in message
. ..

"Gil HASH" wrote in message
...
Hello
I want to use my drilling machine (rexon 3300) as a milling machine by
adding a crossing table
Is there anybody who had the same idea?
Is it realistic? (if I don't need a awful accuracy)

Well, you'll get AWFUL accuracy, unless you get one beefy X-Y table, and
your spindle is nearly perfect.

LLoyd

"Ignoramus6689" wrote in message
...
My drill press has a tapered spindle holder, which instantly releases
the hold once sideways force is applied.

My mill had a tapered spindle, and does NOT release the collet when side
pressure is applied. Well... there is this thing about the drawbar... G

LLoyd

Thanks you for all these tips
I see what you want to say when you talk about danger
I will take many precautions with my drill
I will use it only for very light work and I will avoid too large tools

if your drill press, like mine, holds the chuck by means of a taper,
forget about it, it will not work at all. Do not even bother trying.

i


I want to remove the chuck with its MT2-B16 adaptation and buy some
milling tool holder in MT2 directly in the spindle (or quill?)

In article , Gil HASH says...

Is it realistic? (if I don't need a awful accuracy)

That's OK, you'll get it anyhow.

Jim


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==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Gil HASH wrote:
Hello
I want to use my drilling machine (rexon 3300) as a milling machine by
adding a crossing table
Is there anybody who had the same idea?
Is it realistic? (if I don't need a awful accuracy)

It will work pretty well, right up until the chuck and cutter come
spinning out of the spindle like a carnivorous top! Pretty exciting
stuff, keep the first aid it handy.

Up until that time, it will be a little sloppy because the spindle
bearings are set up for vertical load, not side load. Expect the
tolerance to suffer as it would wear quickly if loaded beyond what the
designer expected. Also, many of the X-Y tables are poorly made and will
add to the inaccuracy.
Now, if you happen to have a big old American DP with a drawbar
holding the arbor in place, and a massive bearing structure, you might
be fine. Some of those are made stouter than many small HSM mills.

Somewhere there's a website showing conversion of a small Chinese DP
into a CNC milling machine. It includes a minor redesign of the spindle.

Rex

My machine shop instructor from twenty years ago always said, "You can drill
with a mill, but you can't mill with a drill"

Drills don't have bearings for side loads even if you fix the taper and
mounting problems.

Karl


"Gil HASH" wrote in message
...

if your drill press, like mine, holds the chuck by means of a taper,
forget about it, it will not work at all. Do not even bother trying.

i


I want to remove the chuck with its MT2-B16 adaptation and buy some
milling tool holder in MT2 directly in the spindle (or quill?)

"Gil HASH" wrote in message
...
Hello
I want to use my drilling machine (rexon 3300) as a milling machine by
adding a crossing table
Is there anybody who had the same idea?
Is it realistic? (if I don't need a awful accuracy)

I'm sure this has already been said (but I'm too lazy to read all the posts)

The spindle ona drilling machine is generally not accurate or beefy enough
to handle side loads. Plus, the bearings inside the drill press or machine
are sometimes not made for side loads at all. You may have problems.

For the same price/effort as adding that table, you might be able to pick up
a Jet Mill/Drill or used Bridgeport, etc.

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
http://www.AutoDrill.com
http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:

"Ignoramus6689" wrote in message
...

My drill press has a tapered spindle holder, which instantly releases
the hold once sideways force is applied.


My mill had a tapered spindle, and does NOT release the collet when side
pressure is applied. Well... there is this thing about the drawbar... G

LLoyd


Yes, and some drill presses have a threaded collar assembly that holds
the tapers together ... that's better, but still not really adequate for
milling.

Yes, some light milling can be done in a drill press, if it HAS to de
done that way, AND the proper precautions are taken, and perhaps several
modifications made to the machine, and you're lucky, but it's still a
BAD idea.

Save up and get a decent small used milling machine. You can get NEW
milling machines from Harbor Freight for a few hundred dollars. They're
certainly NOT great, but far better than a drill press.

Dan Mitchell
============

Gil HASH wrote:

if your drill press, like mine, holds the chuck by means of a taper,
forget about it, it will not work at all. Do not even bother trying.

i



I want to remove the chuck with its MT2-B16 adaptation and buy some
milling tool holder in MT2 directly in the spindle (or quill?)


But you'll still need a drawbar INSIDE your spindle to hold the milling
adapter in the spindle. A very few drill presses have such a drawbar.
The vast majority do NOT! Without a positive locking device (like a
drawbar) to hold the chuck/adapter/cutter in the spindle you are asking
for BIG trouble!

You MAY get away with it, some do, but it's always a BAD idea!

Dan Mitchell
============

Gil,

Drill press quills aren't designed for a side load. Neither are the
castings, although some older drill press castings are very heavy. Milling
machine spindles have double bearings on the spindle end.

Also, the attacments (various types) of the chuck to the spindle is designed
for axial forces only. If yours uses a taper, wear your running shoes. The
chuck and tool will be chasing you around the shop when it pops out.

Mark


"Gil HASH" wrote in message
...
Hello
I want to use my drilling machine (rexon 3300) as a milling machine by
adding a crossing table
Is there anybody who had the same idea?
Is it realistic? (if I don't need a awful accuracy)

"Gil HASH" wrote in message
...
Hello
I want to use my drilling machine (rexon 3300) as a milling machine by
adding a crossing table
Is there anybody who had the same idea?
Is it realistic? (if I don't need a awful accuracy)

Subsequent posts concerning this most frequently asked of all frequently
asked questions have given all the right reasons for not doing this and for
why it won't work well at all. Now for some situations in which you might
get away with it.

Very light, very small milling in soft materials such as plastics,
or wood. Brass is pushing your luck. Steel is hairy at best. Wood is
problematic because you won't be able to get the spindle speed high enough.
And if its wood you're doing, consider some drum sanders on your drill press
as an alternative. You'll need very sharp milling cutters (e.g., end
mills) because you'll need all the help you can get. Also, if your X-Y
table doesn't have gib pressure adjustments, forget the whole thing. You'll
have to make it really tight -- just to the point where you almost can't
turn the feeds.
Let's say you want to cut a slot or a pocket in a piece of material.
Do most of your metal removal by drilling down, rather than by putting side
forces on the end mill. This helps to avoid the almost inevitable popping
out of the chuck. Once you've gotten most of the material out, then you
can apply light side forces to mill in the conventional way for a cleanup.
By and large, this is a desperation practice, only to be done when
there is no alternative. Rather than buy a mill as most people suggested,
I'd buy a lathe and get a milling attachment for it. That's a whole lot
better than milling on a drill press.
I've done it for plexiglass when I had no other way -- but it was
tricky and accuracy was barely acceptable. I once milled steel on my drill
press and it's not an operation I'd care to repeat. My (very old) mill's
motor had died and I had to machine an adapter rig for a new motor. It was
too big to do on the lathe -- hence doing it on the mill. It entailed a lot
of chain drilling, hacksaw work and lots of care prior to milling things
workably clean. Once that was done, I mounted the new motor and promptly
machined a new, proper, adapter.

The big decision, however, when it comes to milling on a drill press
is how high you intend to have the table when you will. Up high, you are
putting faces, chests and hearts in harms way.. low down, other parts come
into the picture. You pays your money and you takes yer choice.

Boris

I tried holding an end mill in the drill chuck of a mill drill once to
plunge-cut a small slot in some plastic. Even with vertical feed the
unbalanced sideways cutting force loosened the chuck.

jw

jim rozen wrote:

That's OK, you'll get it anyhow.

Jim

Fast way to "mill". And the bonus is, you'll get the inaccuracy you
expected, plus some thousandths. Or tenths.

~Dave, metal hacko

I've done the same on a bridgeport for some counterboring for socket cap
screws. Nothing violent happened, just the drill chuck dropped off after
the cut, but i'll never take that shortcut again. Until I have a reason
to buy counterbores i'll just swap the drill chuck for a collet to hold
an end mill

wrote:

I tried holding an end mill in the drill chuck of a mill drill once to
plunge-cut a small slot in some plastic. Even with vertical feed the
unbalanced sideways cutting force loosened the chuck.

jw

Thanks all for these precious hints
That's why when I was milling into plastic, I loose my chuck falling down
I supposed the chuck was bad but after all your mails, I see what tangential
forces can do
with an 10mm end mill in PCV

"Gil HASH" wrote in message
...
Hello
I want to use my drilling machine (rexon 3300) as a milling machine by
adding a crossing table
Is there anybody who had the same idea?
Is it realistic? (if I don't need a awful accuracy)


Endless replies to this question, one that comes up all too often.

Milling machines require considerable rigidity to resist cutting forces.
They also require serious bearings in the head, and a quill that is very
well supported in the housing, and has provisions for being locked where
desired. The part being machined would require a means of being propelled
in a straight line, also at a right angle, and a flat plain. Hoping to
achieve any of this from a drill press is stretching things quite a bit.
even with an added table. There's almost no guarantee you'd get the table
dialed in with the spindle, due to the table not being square with the
column, and not adjustable in two planes. The topic of draw bars and
chucks has been beat to death, time and again. Chucks do not grip end mills
well, due in part to the shank of end mills being hardened, very unlike
drill shanks. Drill chucks rarely run with the degree of desired
concentricity as well. So far, nothing is right for a drill press to
function as a mill.

Consider this: A light duty milling machine (Bridgeport, for example)
weighs roughly 2,000 pounds. A drill press typically weighs under 100
pounds, but could go as high as 200, I'm sure. Where are you going to
find the necessary mass and rigidity from your 200 pound drill press when a
2,000 pound Bridgeport is considered a light duty machine?

Drill presses are that. Drill presses. They are not milling machines, nor
are they intended to function as one. The closest you'll come is a
mill/drill, and they're a miserable compromise on a milling machine at best.
I can't even begin to imagine how poorly a drill press would serve.

Harold

"David Billington" wrote in message
...
I've done the same on a bridgeport for some counterboring for socket cap
screws. Nothing violent happened, just the drill chuck dropped off after
the cut, but i'll never take that shortcut again. Until I have a reason
to buy counterbores i'll just swap the drill chuck for a collet to hold
an end mill

You just have to use a different approach, Dave. I used to build tools for
a living and didn't ever use counterbores for SHCS's. Counterbores are
truly a PITA, particularly if you get a chip between the pilot and the hole,
or one floating under one of the cutting edges. I used them in production
drilling long ago, so I have a fair understanding of their application, and
the pitfalls of their use.

For SHCS's, using one of my Albrecht drill chucks, I start my c'bore with a
twist drill, the same size as the desired c'bore. I drill deep enough to
generate a full diameter, then switch to a flat bottomed drill. The cutting
speed (of the drill, as opposed to a c'bore) makes up for the time lost
changing the tool, and the pilot developed by the first drill prevents the
flat bottom drill from wandering about. You end up with very nice
counterbored holes, with no money invested in tooling that is often more
trouble than it's worth. All of this, of course, works very best when
you're using a drop spindle mill (like your BP), not a drill press. You
have far better control over everything that way.

Give it a go! It served me very well for years.

Harold

On Tue, 9 Aug 2005 20:49:40 +0400, "Gil HASH"
wrote:

Hello
I want to use my drilling machine (rexon 3300) as a milling machine by
adding a crossing table
Is there anybody who had the same idea?
Is it realistic? (if I don't need a awful accuracy)

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Gads...somebody want to write a FAQ on this subject once and for all?

Gunner

If you are going to use that phrase then you should use
the full phrase of "**** Off and Die and Rot In A Ditch
and Get Eaten By Maggots and ****ed On and **** On By
a Dysenteric Elephant (but not necessarily in that order)."

Crash Street Kidd

I have a 700 lb Clausing milling machine that illustrates this point
well. Although it's very nice for light precision prototype milling and
drilling, a 1/2" 2-flute end mill cutting 3/8" deep in steel can set
the whole machine vibrating. The force involved in pushing a milling
cutter through metal is similar to the force needed to hammer a chisel
through it.

jw

Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:
"Gil HASH" wrote in message
...

Hello
I want to use my drilling machine (rexon 3300) as a milling machine by
adding a crossing table
Is there anybody who had the same idea?
Is it realistic? (if I don't need a awful accuracy)



Endless replies to this question, one that comes up all too often.

Milling machines require considerable rigidity to resist cutting forces.
They also require serious bearings in the head, and a quill that is very
well supported in the housing, and has provisions for being locked where
desired. The part being machined would require a means of being propelled
in a straight line, also at a right angle, and a flat plain. Hoping to
achieve any of this from a drill press is stretching things quite a bit.
even with an added table. There's almost no guarantee you'd get the table
dialed in with the spindle, due to the table not being square with the
column, and not adjustable in two planes. The topic of draw bars and
chucks has been beat to death, time and again. Chucks do not grip end mills
well, due in part to the shank of end mills being hardened, very unlike
drill shanks. Drill chucks rarely run with the degree of desired
concentricity as well. So far, nothing is right for a drill press to
function as a mill.

Consider this: A light duty milling machine (Bridgeport, for example)
weighs roughly 2,000 pounds. A drill press typically weighs under 100
pounds, but could go as high as 200, I'm sure. Where are you going to
find the necessary mass and rigidity from your 200 pound drill press when a
2,000 pound Bridgeport is considered a light duty machine?

Drill presses are that. Drill presses. They are not milling machines, nor
are they intended to function as one. The closest you'll come is a
mill/drill, and they're a miserable compromise on a milling machine at best.
I can't even begin to imagine how poorly a drill press would serve.

Harold

We'll put you down as a "Nay", then

wrote:
I tried holding an end mill in the drill chuck of a mill drill once to
plunge-cut a small slot in some plastic. Even with vertical feed the
unbalanced sideways cutting force loosened the chuck.

jw

The chuck doesn't even need to be loose in this case. An ordinary drill
chuck will NOT grip the hardened shank of an end mill (drills have soft
shanks). The chuck jaws must deform and indent the tool shank (not
visibly) in order to grip to it, and a milling cutter is too hard to
deform enough to provide a useful grip.

Thus a chuck should never be used to hold a milling cutter, even in a
milling machine.

Collets are far better, but even they can slip if inadequately tightened
or under heavy load. The best tool for the job is a milling cutter holder.

Dan Mitchell
============

The closest you'll come is a mill/drill, and they're a
miserable compromise on a milling machine at best.

Well, a mill/drill is not nearly as nice as a knee mill but they
are very capable of milling with some limitations. I started with
a jet mill drill (JMD18) that will take quite respectable cuts and
in some ways has a better work envelope than the small knee mills
(I now own both). The five inch quill travel is very useful for
some operations and the large table accepts a 6 inch kurt vise
or 8 inch rotary table that won't fit on the clausing or rockwell
knee mills.

chuck

The thought "I am just going to carefully cut just a little bit so it will
work okay" can go wrong quickly and the chuck with sharp cutter come
whizzing by because the cutter suddenly chatters, jams during climb milling,
or is suddenly overloaded because you mistakenly turned the handle the wrong
way or made some other mistake. Things do sometimes go wrong for other
people too, don't they :}.
Don Young
"Gil HASH" wrote in message
...
Thanks all for these precious hints
That's why when I was milling into plastic, I loose my chuck falling down
I supposed the chuck was bad but after all your mails, I see what
tangential
forces can do
with an 10mm end mill in PCV

In article ,
Daniel A. Mitchell wrote:
wrote:
I tried holding an end mill in the drill chuck of a mill drill once to
plunge-cut a small slot in some plastic. Even with vertical feed the
unbalanced sideways cutting force loosened the chuck.

jw

The chuck doesn't even need to be loose in this case. An ordinary drill
chuck will NOT grip the hardened shank of an end mill (drills have soft
shanks). The chuck jaws must deform and indent the tool shank (not
visibly) in order to grip to it, and a milling cutter is too hard to
deform enough to provide a useful grip.

Thus a chuck should never be used to hold a milling cutter, even in a
milling machine.

Except that Albrecht makes a special version, with either an R-8
shank or one of the NTMB tapers, which has diamond impregnated jaw
faces, and which *can* grip a hardened shank end mill.

Collets are far better, but even they can slip if inadequately tightened
or under heavy load. The best tool for the job is a milling cutter holder.

Agreed,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

DoN. Nichols wrote:

In article ,
Daniel A. Mitchell wrote:

wrote:

I tried holding an end mill in the drill chuck of a mill drill once to
plunge-cut a small slot in some plastic. Even with vertical feed the
unbalanced sideways cutting force loosened the chuck.

jw


The chuck doesn't even need to be loose in this case. An ordinary drill
chuck will NOT grip the hardened shank of an end mill (drills have soft
shanks). The chuck jaws must deform and indent the tool shank (not
visibly) in order to grip to it, and a milling cutter is too hard to
deform enough to provide a useful grip.

Thus a chuck should never be used to hold a milling cutter, even in a
milling machine.


Except that Albrecht makes a special version, with either an R-8
shank or one of the NTMB tapers, which has diamond impregnated jaw
faces, and which *can* grip a hardened shank end mill.


Collets are far better, but even they can slip if inadequately tightened
or under heavy load. The best tool for the job is a milling cutter holder.


Agreed,
DoN.

Agreed ... but I DID say an "ORDINARY" drill chuck! And, I doubt that a
diamond impregnated Albrecht drill chuck is what someone who wants to
use a drill press as a milling machine is likely to have, or want to buy
($$$)!

Dan Mitchell
============

In article ,
Daniel A. Mitchell wrote:
DoN. Nichols wrote:

In article ,
Daniel A. Mitchell wrote:

[ ... ]

The chuck doesn't even need to be loose in this case. An ordinary drill
chuck will NOT grip the hardened shank of an end mill (drills have soft
shanks). The chuck jaws must deform and indent the tool shank (not
visibly) in order to grip to it, and a milling cutter is too hard to
deform enough to provide a useful grip.

Thus a chuck should never be used to hold a milling cutter, even in a
milling machine.


Except that Albrecht makes a special version, with either an R-8
shank or one of the NTMB tapers, which has diamond impregnated jaw
faces, and which *can* grip a hardened shank end mill.

[ ... ]

Agreed ... but I DID say an "ORDINARY" drill chuck!

That you did. I just felt that I should mention that there
*are* exceptions to just about every rule, and I happened to know of
this exception -- not that I have ever had my hands (or even my eyes) on
one.

And, I doubt that a
diamond impregnated Albrecht drill chuck is what someone who wants to
use a drill press as a milling machine is likely to have, or want to buy
($$$)!

Not to mention that his drill press is highly unlikely to have
either an R8 spindle or a NTMB taper one. If it did have either of
those, it would already be a milling machine. :-) (And these Albrecht
drill chucks have permanent shanks, not something attached by a Jacobs
taper, so the opportunity for unintended separation is pretty much gone,
as either of those options needs a proper drawbar to hold the shank into
the machine anyway.

Note that there is still an opportunity for unintended release.
Albrecht keyless chucks are self tightening under normal operation, but
with an interrupted cut, and with a spindle which has lots of spring
between the drive pulley and the chuck, it could wind up under load
until the chip breaks free, at which point the chuck would rotate until
it reached either another forming chip, or the end of the spring travel
in the spindle. If the latter, suddenly the chuck outer body is running
faster than the inner body, an action which tends to loosen the grip of
the chuck. (I remember some years ago we spent quite a while here
trying to figure out why an Albrecht chuck in a mill was releasing
whatever it was holding.) The Albrecht catalog shows that they also
have a version of the chuck which is designed to prevent this problem,
as well.

Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
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--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Except that Albrecht makes a special version, with either an R-8
shank or one of the NTMB tapers, which has diamond impregnated jaw
faces, and which *can* grip a hardened shank end mill.

I find it hard to believe that albrecht recommends using this
expensive precision item for holding milling cutters. I suspect
it is intended to hold carbide drills.

You guys get off on some pretty wild tangents. Or are you actually
recommending to get a albrecht drill chuck with diamond impregnated
jaws, put in in a drill press with a 1/2 endmill and do some milling with it?

Personally I would throw anybody out of my shop that attempted to
hold an endmill in a drill chuck of any kind.

chuck

In article , Chuck Sherwood says...

Personally I would throw anybody out of my shop that attempted to
hold an endmill in a drill chuck of any kind.

LOL. And yet one invariably finds this *exact* question (can
I put an end mill in my drill press jacobs chuck and do milling)
on this and other fora all the time!

The discussion invariably devolves down to two sides, those who
suggest it possibly could be done, and those who say it's a
really bad idea.

Using harold V's maxim, which is you adhere to the standard
correct approach for any shop task, one would have to say 'don't
do it.' Why waste time and risk damaging shop equipment?

Doing this (end mill in jacobs chuck) shows the person is lacking
some vital information about how end mills, chucks, spindle bearings,
drawbars, and machinery in general works. As you say, anyone
who goes ahead and does in in *spite* of instructions to not do
so, deserves a free ticket out the door.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
Doing this (end mill in jacobs chuck) shows the person is lacking
some vital information about how end mills, chucks, spindle bearings,
drawbars, and machinery in general works. As you say, anyone
who goes ahead and does in in *spite* of instructions to not do
so, deserves a free ticket out the door.

And yet, Jim, there have been a rare few times when I couldn't get that
itsy, short little 1/8" bit down into the work, because my spindle nose was
too big, and a baby 1/4" jacobs chuck saved the day (with extremely light
cuts, "climbing", only).

LLoyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" wrote in message
.. .

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
Doing this (end mill in jacobs chuck) shows the person is lacking
some vital information about how end mills, chucks, spindle bearings,
drawbars, and machinery in general works. As you say, anyone
who goes ahead and does in in *spite* of instructions to not do
so, deserves a free ticket out the door.

And yet, Jim, there have been a rare few times when I couldn't get that
itsy, short little 1/8" bit down into the work, because my spindle nose
was
too big, and a baby 1/4" jacobs chuck saved the day (with extremely light
cuts, "climbing", only).

LLoyd


Really? Climbing? Sounds like a recipe for disaster, although in the course
of conducting business in my many years, I can't think of too many of the
*rules* I haven't violated, generally in favor of getting the job out the
door on time. You place your bet and take your chances. Some days it's
chicken, other days it's feathers.

The bottom line here is that some folks see a drill press and think
mill------cheap mill. Often they think they're clever and have come up
with something no one else has-----likely because they're far more *clever*
than are others. Once a person has made up his mind that his
hare-brained idea is good, it takes a heap of dissuading to swing them a
different direction. I'm fast getting to the point where I think it's
smarter to let them screw up and learn the hard way. Still, it's hard to
stand by and watch otherwise smart people make such stupid mistakes.

The typical drill press, particularly today, where virtually everything is
made in China, and not necessarily of great quality, even for a drill press.
Armed with that idea, said drill press lacks *everything* necessary to be
even a low quality mill. The only thing it has in common with a vertical
mill is a spindle that rotates.

Harold

In article , Harold and Susan Vordos says...

.... I'm fast getting to the point where I think it's
smarter to let them screw up and learn the hard way.

My wife's favorite line: "Experience keeps a hard school, but
fools will learn in no other."

Unfortunately it's often directed at me!!

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

And yet, Jim, there have been a rare few times when I couldn't get that
itsy, short little 1/8" bit down into the work, because my spindle nose was
too big, and a baby 1/4" jacobs chuck saved the day (with extremely light
cuts, "climbing", only).

For those situations I use a jacobs double angle collet chuck.
The DA300 series has a 1/2 inch shank that fits into an R8 collet
and the nut on the end is not much bigger. The collets go up to 1/4.
The collets will hold better than a drill chuck and will also be
much more concentric. I think the runout on a drill chuck would
make the 1/8 slot a bit wide.

"Chuck Sherwood" wrote in message
...
And yet, Jim, there have been a rare few times when I couldn't get that
itsy, short little 1/8" bit down into the work, because my spindle nose
was
too big, and a baby 1/4" jacobs chuck saved the day (with extremely light
cuts, "climbing", only).

For those situations I use a jacobs double angle collet chuck.
The DA300 series has a 1/2 inch shank that fits into an R8 collet
and the nut on the end is not much bigger. The collets go up to 1/4.
The collets will hold better than a drill chuck and will also be
much more concentric. I think the runout on a drill chuck would
make the 1/8 slot a bit wide.

It would, and does, but I wouldn't try to mill a to-spec slot with that
loose an arrangement. Just doing a little side-milling touch-up of a narrow
slot wider than 1/8". Climbing and really light cuts keep the bit from
hogging, and give a _reasonable_ finish -- though not great. Not
recommended.

The extension collet is the better solution -- but, HEY! I didn't have one,
and so seldom need it, it just never got ordered.

LLoyd

.... I'm fast getting to the point where I think it's
smarter to let them screw up and learn the hard way.

In my experience, some people just will not listen
and must experience it first hand. After a couple
failures, (and a couple "I told you so") they soften up a bit.

I often let my kid try something that I know will fail
or not work well (because I tried it before too!).
They deserve the right to learn the fun way as long as its safe.

chuck

jim rozen wrote:
In article , Chuck Sherwood says...


Personally I would throw anybody out of my shop that attempted to
hold an endmill in a drill chuck of any kind.


LOL. And yet one invariably finds this *exact* question (can
I put an end mill in my drill press jacobs chuck and do milling)
on this and other fora all the time!

The discussion invariably devolves down to two sides, those who
suggest it possibly could be done, and those who say it's a
really bad idea.

Using harold V's maxim, which is you adhere to the standard
correct approach for any shop task, one would have to say 'don't
do it.' Why waste time and risk damaging shop equipment?

Doing this (end mill in jacobs chuck) shows the person is lacking
some vital information about how end mills, chucks, spindle bearings,
drawbars, and machinery in general works. As you say, anyone
who goes ahead and does in in *spite* of instructions to not do
so, deserves a free ticket out the door.

Jim


It's a BAD idea ... but for some people, sometimes, it works. Not often.
It's just one more of many ways to 'push one's luck'. *IF* you get away
with it, fine, but more likley you wont, not for long anyway. And the
price of failure can be high, to both the machine and the operator.

At best, with the light cuts required by the improper machine, you'll
have to take a LONG time to do much useful work, and the quality of work
produced will be poor.

Why punish yourself when a passable used milling machine can be gotten
for a couple hundred dollars? I paid $125 for my Benchmaster vertical.
True that it needed work, but it was useable 'as is', and already
superior to a drill press. You can get a NEW vertical micro-mill from HF
for $400, and the mini-mill is only about $100 more. None of these
options will be a great solution, but either will be WAY ahead of trying
to use a drill press for milling.

With the DP you need to buy an X-Y table ... a decent one'll cost you
about half what a used mill will cost(unless you get real lucky in the
used market)! And, with ANY of the options, you'll still need a bunch of
accessories and cutting tools. Once you figure all that in, the savings
on trying to use the DP are truly minimal.

Dan Mitchell
============

The extension collet is the better solution -- but, HEY! I didn't have one,
and so seldom need it, it just never got ordered.

I started with a mill drill. I accumulated tooling that made it possible
to finish the job without moving the head (and loosing registration).
The DA collet chucks helped a lot because they don't require much
head room. I still find them quite useful!

An 8" RT will fit on a Clausing (and probably a Rockwell) mill but it's a
bit of overkill for most work.

"Chuck Sherwood" wrote in message
...
The closest you'll come is a mill/drill, and they're a
miserable compromise on a milling machine at best.

Well, a mill/drill is not nearly as nice as a knee mill but they
are very capable of milling with some limitations. I started with
a jet mill drill (JMD18) that will take quite respectable cuts and
in some ways has a better work envelope than the small knee mills
(I now own both). The five inch quill travel is very useful for
some operations and the large table accepts a 6 inch kurt vise
or 8 inch rotary table that won't fit on the clausing or rockwell
knee mills.

chuck