Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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  #1   Report Post  
DeepDiver
 
Posts: n/a
Default Slightly OT - Who's being unreasonable? (Ebay metal content)

I recently purchased some stainless steel cut-offs from an Ebay seller in
New York. You might have seen some of his auctions:

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZgentoolco

Incidentally, he's also posted a number of solicitations for work in the
News Groups, including one posted here a couple of years ago (however, as
far as I can tell, he's never participated in any News Group discussions).
Here is a copy of one of his NG advertisements:

Quote:
Toolmaker for Hire
I am a retired toolmaker with over 25 years experience in plastics,
aluminum, and steels. Please email me with your needs, I will quote
your job and lead time. Quality work, quick turnaround, fair prices,
no job too small, thanks.

In his Ebay auctions, the seller never mentioned the shipping methods used
(nor did he use Ebay's shipping calculator), but he did write in his auction
description: "Buyer pays actual shipping, I accept Paypal and money orders
and ship in the US."

Since the cut-offs were neither excessively large nor overly heavy, I was
surprised when my invoice showed a large shipping charge for the items
purchased ($17.70 for UPS shipping on a total purchase of $27.99).

So I politely asked the seller if he would ship my items in one of the new
USPS Flat-Rate Priority Mail boxes for $7.70 plus $0.45 for Delivery
Confirmation (which I offered to pay so the seller would be confident that
the package is tracked). I explained that I was paying by USPS Money Order,
so he would be making a trip to the Post Office anyway to cash his payment.

The seller refused, saying that "the post office is very inconvenient."
(Note: I looked up his address on Yahoo Maps. There is a Post Office only
1.7 driving miles from his location.) He also claimed that he was "not out
to rob anybody on shipping".

I wrote back and--again, politely--explained that the Priority Mail boxes
are free and the USPS will even deliver them to his location for free. I
also explained that he can arrange for his Mail Carrier to pick up the
package from his location for free, saving him a trip to the Post Office. I
sent him the USPS Web links for ordering the free boxes and scheduling the
free pick-up. I also offered to send him the pre-paid postage needed for
shipment along with my payment so that all he would have to do is stick the
stamps on the box and hand it to his Mail Carrier. In short, I did just
about everything short of driving across country to pack the box up for him.

His reply was again to refuse (this time with no explanation).

Since he did not stipulate in his auction that he would only ship by UPS,
it's my opinion that he's being unfair to demand that I accept the costs of
his choice of UPS shipment, especially when I've made the less-expensive
alternative so simple. I know this is a fairly small thing, but it just irks
me to no end when people are obstinate for no reason (and expect me to pay
the costs of their obstinacy).

So what do you think: am I being unreasonable or is he?


Regards,
Michael


  #2   Report Post  
SteveB
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"DeepDiver" wrote in message
...
I recently purchased some stainless steel cut-offs from an Ebay seller in
New York. You might have seen some of his auctions:

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZgentoolco

Incidentally, he's also posted a number of solicitations for work in the
News Groups, including one posted here a couple of years ago (however, as
far as I can tell, he's never participated in any News Group discussions).
Here is a copy of one of his NG advertisements:

Quote:
Toolmaker for Hire
I am a retired toolmaker with over 25 years experience in plastics,
aluminum, and steels. Please email me with your needs, I will quote
your job and lead time. Quality work, quick turnaround, fair prices,
no job too small, thanks.


In his Ebay auctions, the seller never mentioned the shipping methods used
(nor did he use Ebay's shipping calculator), but he did write in his
auction description: "Buyer pays actual shipping, I accept Paypal and
money orders and ship in the US."

Since the cut-offs were neither excessively large nor overly heavy, I was
surprised when my invoice showed a large shipping charge for the items
purchased ($17.70 for UPS shipping on a total purchase of $27.99).

So I politely asked the seller if he would ship my items in one of the new
USPS Flat-Rate Priority Mail boxes for $7.70 plus $0.45 for Delivery
Confirmation (which I offered to pay so the seller would be confident that
the package is tracked). I explained that I was paying by USPS Money
Order, so he would be making a trip to the Post Office anyway to cash his
payment.

The seller refused, saying that "the post office is very inconvenient."
(Note: I looked up his address on Yahoo Maps. There is a Post Office only
1.7 driving miles from his location.) He also claimed that he was "not out
to rob anybody on shipping".

I wrote back and--again, politely--explained that the Priority Mail boxes
are free and the USPS will even deliver them to his location for free. I
also explained that he can arrange for his Mail Carrier to pick up the
package from his location for free, saving him a trip to the Post Office.
I sent him the USPS Web links for ordering the free boxes and scheduling
the free pick-up. I also offered to send him the pre-paid postage needed
for shipment along with my payment so that all he would have to do is
stick the stamps on the box and hand it to his Mail Carrier. In short, I
did just about everything short of driving across country to pack the box
up for him.

His reply was again to refuse (this time with no explanation).

Since he did not stipulate in his auction that he would only ship by UPS,
it's my opinion that he's being unfair to demand that I accept the costs
of his choice of UPS shipment, especially when I've made the
less-expensive alternative so simple. I know this is a fairly small thing,
but it just irks me to no end when people are obstinate for no reason (and
expect me to pay the costs of their obstinacy).

So what do you think: am I being unreasonable or is he?


Regards,
Michael


What you are asking is not unreasonable. What he is doing is unreasonable.
How is his feedback?

Since it wasn't outlined up front, it is a kind of a ticklish situation.
You always have feedback to get in the last word. Good sellers will cave
rather than get negative feedback, even when they are right.

Steve


  #3   Report Post  
~Roy~
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Any idea of the total weight of the items? There is a weight limit n
the Priority mail and each additional pound therafter gets
pricey......

Seems more and more sellers on ebay try and make up for their losses
when they do not get what they think they should have gotten for items
they put up for auction by increassing costs for shiping and
handling........I guess his rates are no worse than some rates
advertised for products on TV........like $4.95 to ship a damned CD
disk or $15.00 to have a 1 qt. bottle of some super cleaner sent by
USPS.......

==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!

~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o
  #4   Report Post  
Keith Marshall
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Since he did not stipulate in his auction that he would only ship by UPS,
it's my opinion that he's being unfair to demand that I accept the costs
of his choice of UPS shipment, especially when I've made the
less-expensive alternative so simple. I know this is a fairly small thing,
but it just irks me to no end when people are obstinate for no reason (and
expect me to pay the costs of their obstinacy).

So what do you think: am I being unreasonable or is he?


As someone who sells a fair amount of stuff on eBay I'd say that it's not
unreasonable for a buyer to request a different shipping method than what I
specify... but I do specify. Since I do specify though, I also feel I'm
being quite reasonable if I stick with my method. UPS and FedEx are a major
PITA for me so I try and do everything by USPS. I think I've only shipped 1
package via UPS out of maybe 200+ and it was only because it was $20
cheaper.

But considering the fact that on the first listing of his that I looked at
(from the link you gave) he states the following for shipping charge:

"US $3.95 - US Postal Service Priority Mail®"
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7514472115

I'd say HE'S the one that's being unreasonable. :-)

I also find it hard to believe that UPS would cost $17.70 for something the
post office will ship for $7.70 but the flat-rate boxes could make that much
difference I suppose. If he sticks to his guns and does ship it by UPS I'd
be sure and check the label when it arrives to see how much it actually cost
him. Even then though, probably your only recourse is to leave negative
feedback to which he will almost certainly do the same for you. :-(

The only other comment I have is that you should have asked him about this
BEFORE bidding since he didn't specify in his listing how he planned to ship
it. I know it's easy to say that now that it's too late but it's something
I learned long ago when buying via eBay.

BTW, the fact that you're using a postal money order doesn't automatically
mean that he's going to the post office anyway. I normally either cash them
at my bank or deposit them into my checking account when I receive them so
there's no need to take them to the post office.

Best Regards,
Keith Marshall


"I'm not grown up enough to be so old!"


"DeepDiver" wrote in message
...
I recently purchased some stainless steel cut-offs from an Ebay seller in
New York. You might have seen some of his auctions:

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZgentoolco

Incidentally, he's also posted a number of solicitations for work in the
News Groups, including one posted here a couple of years ago (however, as
far as I can tell, he's never participated in any News Group discussions).
Here is a copy of one of his NG advertisements:

Quote:
Toolmaker for Hire
I am a retired toolmaker with over 25 years experience in plastics,
aluminum, and steels. Please email me with your needs, I will quote
your job and lead time. Quality work, quick turnaround, fair prices,
no job too small, thanks.


In his Ebay auctions, the seller never mentioned the shipping methods used
(nor did he use Ebay's shipping calculator), but he did write in his
auction description: "Buyer pays actual shipping, I accept Paypal and
money orders and ship in the US."

Since the cut-offs were neither excessively large nor overly heavy, I was
surprised when my invoice showed a large shipping charge for the items
purchased ($17.70 for UPS shipping on a total purchase of $27.99).

So I politely asked the seller if he would ship my items in one of the new
USPS Flat-Rate Priority Mail boxes for $7.70 plus $0.45 for Delivery
Confirmation (which I offered to pay so the seller would be confident that
the package is tracked). I explained that I was paying by USPS Money
Order, so he would be making a trip to the Post Office anyway to cash his
payment.

The seller refused, saying that "the post office is very inconvenient."
(Note: I looked up his address on Yahoo Maps. There is a Post Office only
1.7 driving miles from his location.) He also claimed that he was "not out
to rob anybody on shipping".

I wrote back and--again, politely--explained that the Priority Mail boxes
are free and the USPS will even deliver them to his location for free. I
also explained that he can arrange for his Mail Carrier to pick up the
package from his location for free, saving him a trip to the Post Office.
I sent him the USPS Web links for ordering the free boxes and scheduling
the free pick-up. I also offered to send him the pre-paid postage needed
for shipment along with my payment so that all he would have to do is
stick the stamps on the box and hand it to his Mail Carrier. In short, I
did just about everything short of driving across country to pack the box
up for him.

His reply was again to refuse (this time with no explanation).

Since he did not stipulate in his auction that he would only ship by UPS,
it's my opinion that he's being unfair to demand that I accept the costs
of his choice of UPS shipment, especially when I've made the
less-expensive alternative so simple. I know this is a fairly small thing,
but it just irks me to no end when people are obstinate for no reason (and
expect me to pay the costs of their obstinacy).

So what do you think: am I being unreasonable or is he?


Regards,
Michael



  #5   Report Post  
DeepDiver
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"~Roy~" wrote in message
...

Any idea of the total weight of the items?


Yup, I calculated the combined weight of all the pieces to be 12.5 lbs.
(plus I figure another 1.5 lbs for packing).


There is a weight limit n the Priority mail and each
additional pound therafter gets pricey......


Not for the new Flat-Rate Priority Mail boxes. This is a new service offered
by the Post Office and it's really a great deal. There are two fairly large
box sizes: one is 12" x 3.5" x 14" and the other is 11" X 8.5" X 5.5".
Either box will ship for a flat rate of just $7.70 postage, regardless of
destination or weight (up to 70 lbs max). Here are the details (scroll down
to the bottom of the page):

http://www.usps.com/shipping/flatrat...&page=flatrate


Seems more and more sellers on ebay try and make up for their losses
when they do not get what they think they should have gotten for
items they put up for auction by increassing costs for shiping and
handling.


I would agree, except in this case, there were three auctions I won: two I
used "Buy It Now" (so he got exactly what he was asking for) and the third I
got at the opening price of $12.99 (the auction had a "Buy It Now" price of
$15.00).

So it's not like he got low-balled on the prices.


- Michael




  #6   Report Post  
Grant Erwin
 
Posts: n/a
Default

With all due respect, Mike, get real. Sellers on ebay make money on
purchase price, and, sadly, they make money on shipping. My strategy is to
use a different ebay account for buying than selling, if I have *any*
misgivings about a deal. The account I buy from when I'm not certain about
the deal has very little feedback of any kind, so if they don't toe the
line I can threaten to slam them with negative feedback and not worry if
mine goes from +2 to +1 or whatever.

There are many many items that routinely sell on ebay for 99¢ with $19.95
shipping fees. Yes, you can complain, and theoretically ebay will follow
up on that because after all sellers do it to beat ebay out of their fees,
but basically you are seriously shoveling sand against the tides. My
workaround is the *only* approach I could think of to get any actual
protection as a buyer. Some sellers are getting savvy about this and are
starting to say they won't accept bids from sellers with less than X
positive feedbacks, but this approach is completely ineffective when you
snipe and win in the last few seconds. By the time he realizes who's won,
you've won and it's a done deal.

Here's what I do when I get stuck like you just did. I figure you paid
about a buck for shipping and about sixteen bucks for a good tough lesson
you won't ever forget.

Grant

DeepDiver wrote:

I recently purchased some stainless steel cut-offs from an Ebay seller in
New York. You might have seen some of his auctions:

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZgentoolco

Incidentally, he's also posted a number of solicitations for work in the
News Groups, including one posted here a couple of years ago (however, as
far as I can tell, he's never participated in any News Group discussions).
Here is a copy of one of his NG advertisements:

Quote:
Toolmaker for Hire
I am a retired toolmaker with over 25 years experience in plastics,
aluminum, and steels. Please email me with your needs, I will quote
your job and lead time. Quality work, quick turnaround, fair prices,
no job too small, thanks.


In his Ebay auctions, the seller never mentioned the shipping methods used
(nor did he use Ebay's shipping calculator), but he did write in his auction
description: "Buyer pays actual shipping, I accept Paypal and money orders
and ship in the US."

Since the cut-offs were neither excessively large nor overly heavy, I was
surprised when my invoice showed a large shipping charge for the items
purchased ($17.70 for UPS shipping on a total purchase of $27.99).

So I politely asked the seller if he would ship my items in one of the new
USPS Flat-Rate Priority Mail boxes for $7.70 plus $0.45 for Delivery
Confirmation (which I offered to pay so the seller would be confident that
the package is tracked). I explained that I was paying by USPS Money Order,
so he would be making a trip to the Post Office anyway to cash his payment.

The seller refused, saying that "the post office is very inconvenient."
(Note: I looked up his address on Yahoo Maps. There is a Post Office only
1.7 driving miles from his location.) He also claimed that he was "not out
to rob anybody on shipping".

I wrote back and--again, politely--explained that the Priority Mail boxes
are free and the USPS will even deliver them to his location for free. I
also explained that he can arrange for his Mail Carrier to pick up the
package from his location for free, saving him a trip to the Post Office. I
sent him the USPS Web links for ordering the free boxes and scheduling the
free pick-up. I also offered to send him the pre-paid postage needed for
shipment along with my payment so that all he would have to do is stick the
stamps on the box and hand it to his Mail Carrier. In short, I did just
about everything short of driving across country to pack the box up for him.

His reply was again to refuse (this time with no explanation).

Since he did not stipulate in his auction that he would only ship by UPS,
it's my opinion that he's being unfair to demand that I accept the costs of
his choice of UPS shipment, especially when I've made the less-expensive
alternative so simple. I know this is a fairly small thing, but it just irks
me to no end when people are obstinate for no reason (and expect me to pay
the costs of their obstinacy).

So what do you think: am I being unreasonable or is he?


Regards,
Michael


  #7   Report Post  
DeepDiver
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:O9che.32293$fI.3944@fed1read05...

What you are asking is not unreasonable. What he is doing is
unreasonable.


Thanks. It always helps to get an impartial opinion.


How is his feedback?


His feedback numbers were a bit cautionary:

Positive: 67 505 795
Neutral: 0 4 4
Negative: 0 2 3

Feedback Sco 1737
Positive Feedback: 99.5%

Members who left a positive: 1746
Members who left a negative: 9

All positive feedback received: 2472


I really didn't expect to have any problems with steel cut-offs, so I didn't
research his feedback as thouroughly as I perhaps should have. Because
here's a "zinger" negative feedback I found (after the fact):

NEVER rec'd, refunded ONLY 1/2, lost $, got nothing in return, CAVEAT EMPTOR
Reply by gentoolco: USPS lost shipment, tried to be nice and paid him 1/2
his expenses, I'm out too!

So the buyer never got his shipment (for whatever reason), and the seller
only refunded half the money.

Btw, this is why I almost always insist on some form of shipment tracking.
In this case, I offered to pay for USPS Delivery Confirmation on the
Priority Mail box.


Since it wasn't outlined up front, it is a kind of a ticklish situation.


I know. But I can see no justifiable reason for his denying my request.


You always have feedback to get in the last word.


The main problem with Ebay's feedback system (and why it's an unreliable
indicator of a seller's actual performance) is because the seller can post
retaliatory feedback even when the buyer is completely justified in leaving
negative feedback. As a result, most buyers will not leave negative feedback
for fear of having their own feedback rating tarnished. The only way to
avoid this is if the seller leaves feedback first. But many sellers will no
longer leave feedback until after the buyer posts feedback.

Regards,
Michael


  #8   Report Post  
Jim Stewart
 
Posts: n/a
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DeepDiver wrote:

Snip...

So I politely asked the seller if he would ship my items in one of the new
USPS Flat-Rate Priority Mail boxes for $7.70 plus $0.45 for Delivery
Confirmation (which I offered to pay so the seller would be confident that
the package is tracked). I explained that I was paying by USPS Money Order,
so he would be making a trip to the Post Office anyway to cash his payment.

The seller refused, saying that "the post office is very inconvenient."


I know that one trip to the post office is
enough to spoil my day (:
  #9   Report Post  
PrecisionMachinisT
 
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"DeepDiver" wrote in message
...
"~Roy~" wrote in message
...

There is a weight limit n the Priority mail and each
additional pound therafter gets pricey......


Not for the new Flat-Rate Priority Mail boxes. This is a new service

offered
by the Post Office and it's really a great deal. There are two fairly

large
box sizes: one is 12" x 3.5" x 14" and the other is 11" X 8.5" X 5.5".
Either box will ship for a flat rate of just $7.70 postage, regardless of
destination or weight (up to 70 lbs max). Here are the details (scroll

down
to the bottom of the page):


Yup, that one is simply 'whatever fits into a certain sized box'....even if
you could fill it with lead, would be same price.

We use it fairly frequently these days--wholesale shipments to our tool
distributers....basically the box (es ) are filled with aluminum plate with
enough packing material to keep them from getting banged up.

--

SVL


  #10   Report Post  
 
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For me, a trip to the local post office is often the highlight of my
day. (It gives me an excuse to get out of the house.)

Also, like an ordinary check, a post office money order can be
deposited to any of your local ATMs.

Harry C.

p.s. Beware of sellers seeking excessive shipping fees on anything that
you buy on eBay. Check the fine print on their eBay posting, and
figure that amount into your bid for their goods.

Harry C.



  #11   Report Post  
SteveB
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"DeepDiver" wrote in message
...
"SteveB" wrote in message
news:O9che.32293$fI.3944@fed1read05...

What you are asking is not unreasonable. What he is doing is
unreasonable.


Thanks. It always helps to get an impartial opinion.


Not really impartial. I am a Power Seller on ebay.



How is his feedback?


His feedback numbers were a bit cautionary:

Positive: 67 505 795
Neutral: 0 4 4
Negative: 0 2 3

Feedback Sco 1737
Positive Feedback: 99.5%

Members who left a positive: 1746
Members who left a negative: 9

All positive feedback received: 2472


Actually, not that bad for that many sales. When I see sellers that have
100%, I am suspicious. I recently had a sale for a pair of plastic hands
that go on a lawn chair, or boat railing. One holds a beer, the other, a
fishing pole. I had a picture of a lawn chair with a beer and a fishing
pole. The first line of the description is "this is for a pair of hands".
The buyer left me negative because he thought the chair and pole were
included! And that with no e mail prior to posting negative.

As a buyer, I don't hold negatives against any buyer. I look at them and
see if I can see what went wrong with the deal. Some people just can't be
made happy. You can return the goods, shoot the salesman, and give them
their money back, and they will still bitch!




I really didn't expect to have any problems with steel cut-offs, so I
didn't research his feedback as thouroughly as I perhaps should have.
Because here's a "zinger" negative feedback I found (after the fact):

NEVER rec'd, refunded ONLY 1/2, lost $, got nothing in return, CAVEAT
EMPTOR
Reply by gentoolco: USPS lost shipment, tried to be nice and paid him 1/2
his expenses, I'm out too!


That would have kept me from bidding on it right there.


So the buyer never got his shipment (for whatever reason), and the seller
only refunded half the money.

Btw, this is why I almost always insist on some form of shipment tracking.
In this case, I offered to pay for USPS Delivery Confirmation on the
Priority Mail box.


Now, if you ship Priority Mail, and use your home computer to make the
label, the tracking number comes free, and is right there on the half of the
label that the seller keeps.



Since it wasn't outlined up front, it is a kind of a ticklish situation.


I know. But I can see no justifiable reason for his denying my request.


You always have feedback to get in the last word.


The main problem with Ebay's feedback system (and why it's an unreliable
indicator of a seller's actual performance) is because the seller can post
retaliatory feedback even when the buyer is completely justified in
leaving negative feedback. As a result, most buyers will not leave
negative feedback for fear of having their own feedback rating tarnished.
The only way to avoid this is if the seller leaves feedback first. But
many sellers will no longer leave feedback until after the buyer posts
feedback.


True, true. So just stick to the truth, and roll the dice.



Regards,
Michael


Steve


  #12   Report Post  
SteveB
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Jim Stewart" wrote in message
...
DeepDiver wrote:

Snip...

So I politely asked the seller if he would ship my items in one of the
new USPS Flat-Rate Priority Mail boxes for $7.70 plus $0.45 for Delivery
Confirmation (which I offered to pay so the seller would be confident
that the package is tracked). I explained that I was paying by USPS Money
Order, so he would be making a trip to the Post Office anyway to cash his
payment.

The seller refused, saying that "the post office is very inconvenient."


I know that one trip to the post office is
enough to spoil my day (:


I am a Power Seller on Ebay. We print our own labels. The postman picks up
the packages at the house. We only have to go to the postoffice if it is an
international shipment, and we have to fill out customs forms. We can even
buy insurance on our computer.

The story about not wanting to go to the post office won't fly.

STeve


  #13   Report Post  
Christopher Tidy
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Grant Erwin wrote:
With all due respect, Mike, get real. Sellers on ebay make money on
purchase price, and, sadly, they make money on shipping. My strategy is to
use a different ebay account for buying than selling, if I have *any*
misgivings about a deal. The account I buy from when I'm not certain about
the deal has very little feedback of any kind, so if they don't toe the
line I can threaten to slam them with negative feedback and not worry if
mine goes from +2 to +1 or whatever.


That's interesting. I thought about doing this myself, but wasn't sure
it was allowed. Do you need two credit cards to do this?

Chris

  #14   Report Post  
DeepDiver
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Keith Marshall" wrote in message
om...

But considering the fact that on the first listing of his that I looked
at (from the link you gave) he states the following for shipping charge:

"US $3.95 - US Postal Service Priority Mail®"
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7514472115

I'd say HE'S the one that's being unreasonable. :-)


Thanks for bringing that to my attention!


I also find it hard to believe that UPS would cost $17.70 for something
the post office will ship for $7.70 but the flat-rate boxes could make
that much difference I suppose.


Yup, that's the beauty of the new Flat-Rate boxes. They offer two sizes,
either of which will ship for a flat rate of $7.70, regardless of
destination or weight (up to 70 lbs max). It really is a great deal!


If he sticks to his guns and does ship it by UPS I'd be sure
and check the label when it arrives to see how much it actually
cost him.


I've gone through the metal weight calculator and figured 12.5 lbs for the
stock, and guess another 1.5 lbs for packing material. Since he says he has
daily UPS pick-up, then he gets preferred rates. Which means he should be
able to ship a 14 lbs package to me for just $11.01.

But here's where it gets odd. He wrote: "Send the total for all (3)
auctions, and if the actual is much different than the estimated shipping
charge, I'll refund the difference. I belive the total shipping is quoted
around $12.00."

(Actually, the total shipping quoted was $17.70.)

In any case, he claims that he's not trying to make money off the shipping,
and that he will refund any overpayment. Given the circumstances, I have
little expectation that he will hold true to that offer, but it certainly
takes the wind out of the argument that his intention was to pad his profits
by overcharging on shipping.


The only other comment I have is that you should have asked him about
this BEFORE bidding since he didn't specify in his listing how he planned
to ship it. I know it's easy to say that now that it's too late but it's
something I learned long ago when buying via eBay.


I usually do clarify such things in advance. But he seemed like a reasonable
seller (stated "actual shipping charges) and I really didn't expect there to
be this kind of problem. In fact, even now I can't imagine a reason for his
obstinace.


BTW, the fact that you're using a postal money order doesn't
automatically mean that he's going to the post office anyway.
I normally either cash them at my bank or deposit them into my
checking account when I receive them so there's no need to take
them to the post office.


I did some more research on this after my initial communication with him and
discovered that bank deposits were an option. That is why I wrote him back
and explained how everything could be done from his home or office (via free
box delivery and free carrier pick-up, and with me mailing him the postage
and forms with my payment).

But his position is even more odd considering that he offers Priority Mail
on one of his other active auctions.

- Michael


  #16   Report Post  
AL
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I sell on ebay and frequently refuse to ship USPS. Yes Priority Mail boxes
are free, but my post office frequently runs out of the medium sized boxes
that I usually use. The small ones won't fit and the large ones cost more
postage.

More importantly, not all post offices have a large metal tumbler where I
can deposit packages after hours. That means I have to go during the day,
fight for parking, and then wait in line to hand the package to a postal
carrier. Maybe this isn't how your post office is, but the post offices in
my area are.

Leave the package on my doorstep? Someone may decide to help themselves.

Wait for the postal carrier to come to my house? Am I supposed to take the
day off work?

I would say the seller is not being unreasonable.

"DeepDiver" wrote in message
...
I recently purchased some stainless steel cut-offs from an Ebay seller in
New York. You might have seen some of his auctions:

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZgentoolco

Incidentally, he's also posted a number of solicitations for work in the
News Groups, including one posted here a couple of years ago (however, as
far as I can tell, he's never participated in any News Group discussions).
Here is a copy of one of his NG advertisements:

Quote:
Toolmaker for Hire
I am a retired toolmaker with over 25 years experience in plastics,
aluminum, and steels. Please email me with your needs, I will quote
your job and lead time. Quality work, quick turnaround, fair prices,
no job too small, thanks.


In his Ebay auctions, the seller never mentioned the shipping methods used
(nor did he use Ebay's shipping calculator), but he did write in his
auction description: "Buyer pays actual shipping, I accept Paypal and
money orders and ship in the US."

Since the cut-offs were neither excessively large nor overly heavy, I was
surprised when my invoice showed a large shipping charge for the items
purchased ($17.70 for UPS shipping on a total purchase of $27.99).

So I politely asked the seller if he would ship my items in one of the new
USPS Flat-Rate Priority Mail boxes for $7.70 plus $0.45 for Delivery
Confirmation (which I offered to pay so the seller would be confident that
the package is tracked). I explained that I was paying by USPS Money
Order, so he would be making a trip to the Post Office anyway to cash his
payment.

The seller refused, saying that "the post office is very inconvenient."
(Note: I looked up his address on Yahoo Maps. There is a Post Office only
1.7 driving miles from his location.) He also claimed that he was "not out
to rob anybody on shipping".

I wrote back and--again, politely--explained that the Priority Mail boxes
are free and the USPS will even deliver them to his location for free. I
also explained that he can arrange for his Mail Carrier to pick up the
package from his location for free, saving him a trip to the Post Office.
I sent him the USPS Web links for ordering the free boxes and scheduling
the free pick-up. I also offered to send him the pre-paid postage needed
for shipment along with my payment so that all he would have to do is
stick the stamps on the box and hand it to his Mail Carrier. In short, I
did just about everything short of driving across country to pack the box
up for him.

His reply was again to refuse (this time with no explanation).

Since he did not stipulate in his auction that he would only ship by UPS,
it's my opinion that he's being unfair to demand that I accept the costs
of his choice of UPS shipment, especially when I've made the
less-expensive alternative so simple. I know this is a fairly small thing,
but it just irks me to no end when people are obstinate for no reason (and
expect me to pay the costs of their obstinacy).

So what do you think: am I being unreasonable or is he?


Regards,
Michael



  #17   Report Post  
Lane
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"DeepDiver" wrote in message
...
I recently purchased some stainless steel cut-offs from an Ebay seller in
New York. You might have seen some of his auctions:

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZgentoolco

Incidentally, he's also posted a number of solicitations for work in the
News Groups, including one posted here a couple of years ago (however, as
far as I can tell, he's never participated in any News Group
discussions). Here is a copy of one of his NG advertisements:

Quote:
Toolmaker for Hire
I am a retired toolmaker with over 25 years experience in plastics,
aluminum, and steels. Please email me with your needs, I will quote
your job and lead time. Quality work, quick turnaround, fair prices,
no job too small, thanks.


In his Ebay auctions, the seller never mentioned the shipping methods
used (nor did he use Ebay's shipping calculator), but he did write in his
auction description: "Buyer pays actual shipping, I accept Paypal and
money orders and ship in the US."

Since the cut-offs were neither excessively large nor overly heavy, I was
surprised when my invoice showed a large shipping charge for the items
purchased ($17.70 for UPS shipping on a total purchase of $27.99).

So I politely asked the seller if he would ship my items in one of the
new USPS Flat-Rate Priority Mail boxes for $7.70 plus $0.45 for Delivery
Confirmation (which I offered to pay so the seller would be confident
that the package is tracked). I explained that I was paying by USPS Money
Order, so he would be making a trip to the Post Office anyway to cash his
payment.

The seller refused, saying that "the post office is very inconvenient."
(Note: I looked up his address on Yahoo Maps. There is a Post Office only
1.7 driving miles from his location.) He also claimed that he was "not
out to rob anybody on shipping".

I wrote back and--again, politely--explained that the Priority Mail boxes
are free and the USPS will even deliver them to his location for free. I
also explained that he can arrange for his Mail Carrier to pick up the
package from his location for free, saving him a trip to the Post Office.
I sent him the USPS Web links for ordering the free boxes and scheduling
the free pick-up. I also offered to send him the pre-paid postage needed
for shipment along with my payment so that all he would have to do is
stick the stamps on the box and hand it to his Mail Carrier. In short, I
did just about everything short of driving across country to pack the box
up for him.

His reply was again to refuse (this time with no explanation).

Since he did not stipulate in his auction that he would only ship by UPS,
it's my opinion that he's being unfair to demand that I accept the costs
of his choice of UPS shipment, especially when I've made the
less-expensive alternative so simple. I know this is a fairly small
thing, but it just irks me to no end when people are obstinate for no
reason (and expect me to pay the costs of their obstinacy).

So what do you think: am I being unreasonable or is he?


Regards,
Michael




I would say that he should have used the shipping calculator and that he
should have stipulated his shipping preferences in the description.

However, having said that, as a buyer in dealing with an auction like that,
I would have asked him about this prior to winning the bid.

But since you didn't I'd say you are the one being unreasonable here. For
example, there are certain commercial companies that ship everything via UPS
or FedEX, and asking them to do the other won't get you anywhere except
without a sale.

Lane


  #18   Report Post  
Grant Erwin
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Christopher Tidy wrote:

Grant Erwin wrote:

With all due respect, Mike, get real. Sellers on ebay make money on
purchase price, and, sadly, they make money on shipping. My strategy
is to
use a different ebay account for buying than selling, if I have *any*
misgivings about a deal. The account I buy from when I'm not certain
about
the deal has very little feedback of any kind, so if they don't toe the
line I can threaten to slam them with negative feedback and not worry if
mine goes from +2 to +1 or whatever.



That's interesting. I thought about doing this myself, but wasn't sure
it was allowed. Do you need two credit cards to do this?


One account is mine, the other account is someone else's. They buy for
both of us, I sell for both of us. - GWE
  #19   Report Post  
Jim Stewart
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Lane wrote:

But since you didn't I'd say you are the one being unreasonable here. For
example, there are certain commercial companies that ship everything via UPS
or FedEX, and asking them to do the other won't get you anywhere except
without a sale.


Not only that. It's common in some industries
to charge enough money for shipping to the end
user to cover both his shipping cost and the
cost to ship the raw materials to the factory.

  #20   Report Post  
DeepDiver
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"AL" wrote in message
...

I sell on ebay and frequently refuse to ship USPS. Yes Priority Mail
boxes are free, but my post office frequently runs out of the medium
sized boxes that I usually use.


Go to www.usps.com. You can order them in quantity for free. And the Postal
Service will deliver them straight to your door (also for free, and usually
within a day or two).


The small ones won't fit and the large ones cost more postage.


Nope. There are two sizes of **Flat-Rate** Priority Mail boxes (which is
what we're discussing here); both sizes ship for $7.70 to any US location
and for any amount of weight up to a maximum of 70 lbs.


More importantly, not all post offices have a large metal tumbler where
I can deposit packages after hours. That means I have to go during the
day, fight for parking, and then wait in line to hand the package to a
postal carrier. Maybe this isn't how your post office is, but the post
offices in my area are.

Leave the package on my doorstep? Someone may decide to help themselves.

Wait for the postal carrier to come to my house? Am I supposed to take
the day off work?


So if it's unreasonable to expect the seller to drop off the item of
shipping, and yet it's also unreasonable to expect him to have someone pick
it up, how do you think he's supposed to ship the item... by teleportation?

But, really, that's academic: this seller (who describes himself as
"retired") has UPS pick-up from his location (likely his shop, since he's
selling metal cut-offs and scrap). If UPS can come pick up from his
location, then why can't the US Postal Service?

Besides, another gentleman in this NG (Keith Marshall; see his post in this
thread) took a look at this seller's current auctions and found a listing
for some Delrin rod. This is the listed shipping method:

"US $3.95 - US Postal Service Priority Mail®"
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7514472115

That kinda' shoots holes the arguments that my asking him to ship by USPS is
inconvienient.

Two last points I'd like to make for those who think I'm trying to be
"unreasonable" with this seller:

1. Two of these auctions were "Buy It Now". And for the third, the
difference between my winning bid (opening price) and the "BIN" price was
just $2.00. So he's basically getting his asking price for his auctions.

2. I told him from the beginning that the reason I wanted to save money on
the shipping was so that I could buy two additional auctions of his for
stainless steel rod cut-offs. In fact I told him that I'd rather give my
business and my money to him than to UPS. (And I wasn't just blowing smoke:
I really did intend to buy two of his other auctions.)

Really, this whole thing is just bad business as far as I can tell. I still
can see no reason for his refusal except for his being stubborn.

- Michael




  #21   Report Post  
DeepDiver
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Lane" lane (no spam) at copperaccents dot com wrote in message
...

But since you didn't I'd say you are the one being unreasonable here.
For example, there are certain commercial companies that ship
everything via UPS or FedEX


We've already discovered that the seller has other current auctions for
items with USPS Priority Mail listed as the shipping method, so that's not
it.


and asking them to do the other won't get you anywhere except without a
sale.


At this point, his unjustified stubborn inflexibility and his lies have
soured my purchases. If I could withdraw my business from this seller
without damaging my Ebay credibility and rating, I would! I don't need scrap
pieces of stainless steel THAT badly.

- Michael


  #22   Report Post  
DeepDiver
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Jim Stewart" wrote in message
...

Not only that. It's common in some industries
to charge enough money for shipping to the end
user to cover both his shipping cost and the
cost to ship the raw materials to the factory.


Hey, we're not talking about an industrial order here. This guy is selling
scrap cut-offs, from his machine shop, on Ebay.


  #23   Report Post  
DeepDiver
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Ignoramus633" wrote in message
...

The buyer is unreasonable because he wants more from the
seller than was promised by the auction.


Really? How so?

I didn't ask him for any free product.
I didn't ask him to eat any shipping expenses.
I didn't ask him to jump through any hoops.

The seller currently has auctions where the listed shipping method is US
Priority Mail. For the auctions I purchased, he did not stipulate a shipping
method, only that I would inccur actual shipping charges.

Is it really unreasonable that I ask him to ship by a more economical
method -- one that he already uses?

And BTW, I told him from the very first request that I wanted to save money
on the shipping so that I could purchase two more of his auctions. I figured
the additional sales would benefit him as well as me. Why throw money away
on shipping? Is that unreasonable of me?

Now, this whole transaction has soured me to the point where I wish I never
bid on his auctions. Not only has he lost two additional sales now, but he's
lost my future business as well (and probably the business of my
metalworking friends).

- Michael


  #24   Report Post  
Harold and Susan Vordos
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"DeepDiver" wrote in message
...
snip-----

Now, this whole transaction has soured me to the point where I wish I

never
bid on his auctions. Not only has he lost two additional sales now, but

he's
lost my future business as well (and probably the business of my
metalworking friends).

- Michael


Considering the very negative experience Susan had with a less than honest
seller on ebay, you have my total sympathy. Do us all a favor and name the
person with which you've done business so those of us that wish to avoid
doing business with him, will be able to do so. That's assuming we are
still buying off ebay. Frankly, we rarely do anymore, and it's the honest
seller that's taking the loss. Ebay is not putting enough effort into
discouraging the crooks. They're far more interested in their bottom line,
from all indications. If you prefer to not make his name known publicly,
I'd appreciate hearing from you on the side.

Best of luck,

Harold


  #25   Report Post  
Harold and Susan Vordos
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"AL" wrote in message
...
I sell on ebay and frequently refuse to ship USPS. Yes Priority Mail

boxes
are free, but my post office frequently runs out of the medium sized boxes
that I usually use. The small ones won't fit and the large ones cost more
postage.


You are totally misinformed about the new shipping containers. *Totally*.

Harold




  #26   Report Post  
SteveB
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote

Considering the very negative experience Susan had with a less than honest
seller on ebay, you have my total sympathy. Do us all a favor and name
the
person with which you've done business so those of us that wish to avoid
doing business with him, will be able to do so. That's assuming we are
still buying off ebay. Frankly, we rarely do anymore, and it's the
honest
seller that's taking the loss. Ebay is not putting enough effort into
discouraging the crooks. They're far more interested in their bottom
line,
from all indications. If you prefer to not make his name known
publicly,
I'd appreciate hearing from you on the side.

Best of luck,

Harold


Yes, please do post the seller's name. I would like to be able to avoid
them.

I think that ebay from the beginning thought the feedback system would allow
buyers to be able to research sellers. That works, but not all the time.
And then, there are those sellers who are just plain fraudulent, who make
the money, then run. Then come back as another seller, and do the same
thing. I have had some questionable situations on ebay, and had very little
help from their side.

I guess you just do your best, either as a buyer, or seller, and let what's
going to happen happen.

Steve


  #27   Report Post  
Larry Jaques
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 13 May 2005 19:37:14 -0700, the inscrutable "SteveB"
spake:


"Jim Stewart" wrote in message
...
DeepDiver wrote:

Snip...

So I politely asked the seller if he would ship my items in one of the
new USPS Flat-Rate Priority Mail boxes for $7.70 plus $0.45 for Delivery
Confirmation (which I offered to pay so the seller would be confident
that the package is tracked). I explained that I was paying by USPS Money
Order, so he would be making a trip to the Post Office anyway to cash his
payment.

The seller refused, saying that "the post office is very inconvenient."


They're both being unreasonable. What if the guy no longer drives/has
a car?


I know that one trip to the post office is
enough to spoil my day (:


I am a Power Seller on Ebay. We print our own labels. The postman picks up


What's your store/vendor name, Steve? My local post offices aren't
too bad, but both are just over 4 miles away. I get into town twice a
week so it's not too far out of the way twice a week.


the packages at the house. We only have to go to the postoffice if it is an
international shipment, and we have to fill out customs forms. We can even
buy insurance on our computer.


I, too, sell from my home. The USPS delivers Priority boxes and I use
Stamps.com for postage/tracking. Portions of that $16/mo fee are added
to shipment costs along with handling/packing fees (they pay $5 for a
$3.85 stamp + handling) My glare guards are well under the 2 pound
limit on mailbox shipping so I have gotten away with a customs form on
a box going out of my mailbox. When I have to go to the USPO for an
int'l mailing, I charge an extra fee to (partially) cover my time.


The story about not wanting to go to the post office won't fly.


It should. It's inconvenient, and small branches can be even worse
with lines out the door all day.

Caveat Emptor: If the vendor gives the package to his buddy, the buddy
can charge him an extra $30 to go to the USPS and you'll have to pay
it plus the USPS fees. That's his actual shipping charge as you agreed
to in the auction. ALWAYS email to ask for actual fees for delivery to
your zip code or you can get hammered. I got nailed $7.95 for a 2
ounce envelope once and learned my lesson on that one.


------
We're born hungry, wet, 'n naked, and it gets worse from there.
- http://diversify.com Website Application Programming -
  #28   Report Post  
SteveB
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 13 May 2005 19:37:14 -0700, the inscrutable "SteveB"
spake:


"Jim Stewart" wrote in message
...
DeepDiver wrote:

Snip...

So I politely asked the seller if he would ship my items in one of the
new USPS Flat-Rate Priority Mail boxes for $7.70 plus $0.45 for
Delivery
Confirmation (which I offered to pay so the seller would be confident
that the package is tracked). I explained that I was paying by USPS
Money
Order, so he would be making a trip to the Post Office anyway to cash
his
payment.

The seller refused, saying that "the post office is very inconvenient."


They're both being unreasonable. What if the guy no longer drives/has
a car?


Then, print up the label at home, put it on the package, and have the
postman pick up the package at the seller's home. Shut-ins can do business
from home in today's market. Did the seller have a business address, or was
he working from home? Either way, a postman probably goes to one of those
places.


I know that one trip to the post office is
enough to spoil my day (:


I am a Power Seller on Ebay. We print our own labels. The postman picks
up



What's your store/vendor name, Steve?


priorityonesales

My local post offices aren't
too bad, but both are just over 4 miles away. I get into town twice a
week so it's not too far out of the way twice a week.


the packages at the house. We only have to go to the postoffice if it is
an
international shipment, and we have to fill out customs forms. We can
even
buy insurance on our computer.


I, too, sell from my home. The USPS delivers Priority boxes and I use
Stamps.com for postage/tracking. Portions of that $16/mo fee are added
to shipment costs along with handling/packing fees (they pay $5 for a
$3.85 stamp + handling) My glare guards are well under the 2 pound
limit on mailbox shipping so I have gotten away with a customs form on
a box going out of my mailbox. When I have to go to the USPO for an
int'l mailing, I charge an extra fee to (partially) cover my time.


Why don't you just print your lables at home, and chuck the stamps?

The story about not wanting to go to the post office won't fly.


It should. It's inconvenient, and small branches can be even worse
with lines out the door all day.


That story would only be viable if one lived at a residence where there was
no postal delivery. I guess such places exist, and some people only have
post office boxes for different reasons. But mostly, if there is a postman
in the area, they will take your packages, even if you have a post office
box address. I have flagged down more than one postman and given him my
outgoing packages in areas other than where I live back before they just
picked them up.


Caveat Emptor: If the vendor gives the package to his buddy, the buddy
can charge him an extra $30 to go to the USPS and you'll have to pay
it plus the USPS fees. That's his actual shipping charge as you agreed
to in the auction. ALWAYS email to ask for actual fees for delivery to
your zip code or you can get hammered. I got nailed $7.95 for a 2
ounce envelope once and learned my lesson on that one.


Yup. You live and learn.

Steve


  #29   Report Post  
Dave
 
Posts: n/a
Default

DeepDiver wrote:
[...]
So I politely asked the seller if he would ship my items in
one of the new USPS Flat-Rate Priority Mail boxes for $7.70
plus $0.45 for Delivery Confirmation (which I offered to pay
so the seller would be confident that the package is tracked).
I explained that I was paying by USPS Money Order, so he would
be making a trip to the Post Office anyway to cash his payment.

The seller refused, saying that "the post office is very
inconvenient." [...]



I agree with your gripe to a certain extent, but many sellers avoid
using USPS. That is simply a fact. Use e-mail next time to inquire
before purchasing.

  #30   Report Post  
larry g
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I've had the advantage of reading the above posts and will throw in my $.02.
At this point I would take the sellers point. Being a person that gets
"stuck in my ways" I can imagine that this seller already has the item
boxed up and ready to go, may already have the label on it. To change to
postal would not be worth the $10 savings to you. His system to ship metal
may be to drop it off at some shipping depot and they do the packing and
shipping for him. I know that I personally will hardly get out of an easy
chair to save you $10, no less walk away from a machine that is making me
money. I would in this case ask the seller to unwind the deal and mutually
walk away. Ya get in a ****ing contest, at the very least you get ****ed on
too.
lg
no neat sig line

"DeepDiver" wrote in message
...
I recently purchased some stainless steel cut-offs from an Ebay seller in
New York. You might have seen some of his auctions:

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZgentoolco

Incidentally, he's also posted a number of solicitations for work in the
News Groups, including one posted here a couple of years ago (however, as
far as I can tell, he's never participated in any News Group discussions).
Here is a copy of one of his NG advertisements:

Quote:
Toolmaker for Hire
I am a retired toolmaker with over 25 years experience in plastics,
aluminum, and steels. Please email me with your needs, I will quote
your job and lead time. Quality work, quick turnaround, fair prices,
no job too small, thanks.


In his Ebay auctions, the seller never mentioned the shipping methods used
(nor did he use Ebay's shipping calculator), but he did write in his
auction description: "Buyer pays actual shipping, I accept Paypal and
money orders and ship in the US."

Since the cut-offs were neither excessively large nor overly heavy, I was
surprised when my invoice showed a large shipping charge for the items
purchased ($17.70 for UPS shipping on a total purchase of $27.99).

So I politely asked the seller if he would ship my items in one of the new
USPS Flat-Rate Priority Mail boxes for $7.70 plus $0.45 for Delivery
Confirmation (which I offered to pay so the seller would be confident that
the package is tracked). I explained that I was paying by USPS Money
Order, so he would be making a trip to the Post Office anyway to cash his
payment.

The seller refused, saying that "the post office is very inconvenient."
(Note: I looked up his address on Yahoo Maps. There is a Post Office only
1.7 driving miles from his location.) He also claimed that he was "not out
to rob anybody on shipping".

I wrote back and--again, politely--explained that the Priority Mail boxes
are free and the USPS will even deliver them to his location for free. I
also explained that he can arrange for his Mail Carrier to pick up the
package from his location for free, saving him a trip to the Post Office.
I sent him the USPS Web links for ordering the free boxes and scheduling
the free pick-up. I also offered to send him the pre-paid postage needed
for shipment along with my payment so that all he would have to do is
stick the stamps on the box and hand it to his Mail Carrier. In short, I
did just about everything short of driving across country to pack the box
up for him.

His reply was again to refuse (this time with no explanation).

Since he did not stipulate in his auction that he would only ship by UPS,
it's my opinion that he's being unfair to demand that I accept the costs
of his choice of UPS shipment, especially when I've made the
less-expensive alternative so simple. I know this is a fairly small thing,
but it just irks me to no end when people are obstinate for no reason (and
expect me to pay the costs of their obstinacy).

So what do you think: am I being unreasonable or is he?


Regards,
Michael





  #31   Report Post  
SteveB
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Dave" wrote in message
oups.com...
DeepDiver wrote:
[...]
So I politely asked the seller if he would ship my items in
one of the new USPS Flat-Rate Priority Mail boxes for $7.70
plus $0.45 for Delivery Confirmation (which I offered to pay
so the seller would be confident that the package is tracked).
I explained that I was paying by USPS Money Order, so he would
be making a trip to the Post Office anyway to cash his payment.

The seller refused, saying that "the post office is very
inconvenient." [...]



I agree with your gripe to a certain extent, but many sellers avoid
using USPS. That is simply a fact. Use e-mail next time to inquire
before purchasing.


I agree to e mail before purchasing. But my opinion is that USPS is about
4.6 light years ahead of UPS in service and customer service. My problems
with UPS have been much greater than with USPS.

Steve


  #32   Report Post  
Harold and Susan Vordos
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"larry g" wrote in message
...
I know that I personally will hardly get out of an easy
chair to save you $10, no less walk away from a machine that is making me
money.


Chuckle! Strange comments from one of the most decent of people I've had
the privilege to meet. LG is the kind person that mailed to me, no strings
attached, some felt for making a wiper to fit the Bridgeport shaper head I
was rebuilding. Don't let his comments fool you. He's a very kind and
caring person, and would likely bend over backwards to accommodate other
people. He sure went out of his way for me.

I do, however, understand his stance in this issue. Could be the seller
did already have his product packaged, or perhaps has a shipping firm handle
it, and they have a system that he prefers to not change. That doesn't
change the fact that the seller is less than concerned with the idea of
charging a buyer one hell of a lot more for shipping than is necessary.
Personally, I try to be far more considerate of others than that. Some
folks have had too much too long and have no idea how it can be to live on a
small, fixed income, where a couple bucks may spell the difference between
being able to pursue a given project, or not.

Harold


  #33   Report Post  
ATP*
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...

"DeepDiver" wrote in message
...
snip-----

Now, this whole transaction has soured me to the point where I wish I

never
bid on his auctions. Not only has he lost two additional sales now, but

he's
lost my future business as well (and probably the business of my
metalworking friends).

- Michael


Considering the very negative experience Susan had with a less than honest
seller on ebay, you have my total sympathy. Do us all a favor and name
the
person with which you've done business so those of us that wish to avoid
doing business with him, will be able to do so. That's assuming we are
still buying off ebay. Frankly, we rarely do anymore, and it's the
honest
seller that's taking the loss. Ebay is not putting enough effort into
discouraging the crooks. They're far more interested in their bottom
line,
from all indications. If you prefer to not make his name known
publicly,
I'd appreciate hearing from you on the side.

Best of luck,

Harold

I bought a "brand new" computer that turned out to be a factory refurb,
which the seller had just bought from ubid.com. Ebay told me they don't get
involved in "disputes over product descriptions". I also found out that a
Visa branded debit card is still just a debit card- once the money is gone,
it is gone, and Visa will not go to bat for you. Paypal, of course, wouldn't
do anything either.


  #34   Report Post  
Waynemak
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I agree, I have over 220 feedback and got one neg from someone who never
returned emals or paid for an item. I don't see how someone with over 1000
feedback can be 100%
"SteveB" wrote in message
news:Jtdhe.32303$fI.28082@fed1read05...

"DeepDiver" wrote in message
...
"SteveB" wrote in message
news:O9che.32293$fI.3944@fed1read05...

What you are asking is not unreasonable. What he is doing is
unreasonable.


Thanks. It always helps to get an impartial opinion.


Not really impartial. I am a Power Seller on ebay.



How is his feedback?


His feedback numbers were a bit cautionary:

Positive: 67 505 795
Neutral: 0 4 4
Negative: 0 2 3

Feedback Sco 1737
Positive Feedback: 99.5%

Members who left a positive: 1746
Members who left a negative: 9

All positive feedback received: 2472


Actually, not that bad for that many sales. When I see sellers that have
100%, I am suspicious. I recently had a sale for a pair of plastic hands
that go on a lawn chair, or boat railing. One holds a beer, the other, a
fishing pole. I had a picture of a lawn chair with a beer and a fishing
pole. The first line of the description is "this is for a pair of hands".
The buyer left me negative because he thought the chair and pole were
included! And that with no e mail prior to posting negative.

As a buyer, I don't hold negatives against any buyer. I look at them and
see if I can see what went wrong with the deal. Some people just can't be
made happy. You can return the goods, shoot the salesman, and give them
their money back, and they will still bitch!




I really didn't expect to have any problems with steel cut-offs, so I
didn't research his feedback as thouroughly as I perhaps should have.
Because here's a "zinger" negative feedback I found (after the fact):

NEVER rec'd, refunded ONLY 1/2, lost $, got nothing in return, CAVEAT
EMPTOR
Reply by gentoolco: USPS lost shipment, tried to be nice and paid him 1/2
his expenses, I'm out too!


That would have kept me from bidding on it right there.


So the buyer never got his shipment (for whatever reason), and the seller
only refunded half the money.

Btw, this is why I almost always insist on some form of shipment
tracking. In this case, I offered to pay for USPS Delivery Confirmation
on the Priority Mail box.


Now, if you ship Priority Mail, and use your home computer to make the
label, the tracking number comes free, and is right there on the half of
the label that the seller keeps.



Since it wasn't outlined up front, it is a kind of a ticklish situation.


I know. But I can see no justifiable reason for his denying my request.


You always have feedback to get in the last word.


The main problem with Ebay's feedback system (and why it's an unreliable
indicator of a seller's actual performance) is because the seller can
post retaliatory feedback even when the buyer is completely justified in
leaving negative feedback. As a result, most buyers will not leave
negative feedback for fear of having their own feedback rating tarnished.
The only way to avoid this is if the seller leaves feedback first. But
many sellers will no longer leave feedback until after the buyer posts
feedback.


True, true. So just stick to the truth, and roll the dice.



Regards,
Michael


Steve



  #35   Report Post  
Harold and Susan Vordos
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"ATP*" wrote in message
...

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...

"DeepDiver" wrote in message
...
snip-----

Now, this whole transaction has soured me to the point where I wish I

never
bid on his auctions. Not only has he lost two additional sales now, but

he's
lost my future business as well (and probably the business of my
metalworking friends).

- Michael


Considering the very negative experience Susan had with a less than

honest
seller on ebay, you have my total sympathy. Do us all a favor and name
the
person with which you've done business so those of us that wish to avoid
doing business with him, will be able to do so. That's assuming we are
still buying off ebay. Frankly, we rarely do anymore, and it's the
honest
seller that's taking the loss. Ebay is not putting enough effort into
discouraging the crooks. They're far more interested in their bottom
line,
from all indications. If you prefer to not make his name known
publicly,
I'd appreciate hearing from you on the side.

Best of luck,

Harold

I bought a "brand new" computer that turned out to be a factory refurb,
which the seller had just bought from ubid.com. Ebay told me they don't

get
involved in "disputes over product descriptions". I also found out that a
Visa branded debit card is still just a debit card- once the money is

gone,
it is gone, and Visa will not go to bat for you. Paypal, of course,

wouldn't
do anything either.


We were fortunate in that ebay did go to bat for us, and quickly paid Susan
the maximum amount for a bad transaction at that particular point in time.
Problem for us is our transaction amounted to almost $1,200, and they gave
Susan only $175. She was still out a considerable amount of money, and none
of the protection agencies would do anything about it. The message we
received is that crime does pay, that those that scam people are free to do
so, time and again. It is for that reason that we no longer use ebay.

The seller has never listed anything on ebay since, but I have no idea if
that is by choice, or ebay suspended them. As you likely know, ebay won't
tell you anything.

Harold




  #36   Report Post  
Waynemak
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I stopped using UPS because there rates are so high, $2.00 for residental,
$2.00 for pick up then about $1.00 per pound. What was a real PITA with UPS
is the fees I would get hit with AFTER item shipped. Some people within a
zip code would have a surcharge. I now use DHL and save my buyers about 40%
on shipping.
"DeepDiver" wrote in message
...
"Keith Marshall" wrote in message
om...

But considering the fact that on the first listing of his that I looked
at (from the link you gave) he states the following for shipping charge:

"US $3.95 - US Postal Service Priority Mail®"
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7514472115

I'd say HE'S the one that's being unreasonable. :-)


Thanks for bringing that to my attention!


I also find it hard to believe that UPS would cost $17.70 for something
the post office will ship for $7.70 but the flat-rate boxes could make
that much difference I suppose.


Yup, that's the beauty of the new Flat-Rate boxes. They offer two sizes,
either of which will ship for a flat rate of $7.70, regardless of
destination or weight (up to 70 lbs max). It really is a great deal!


If he sticks to his guns and does ship it by UPS I'd be sure
and check the label when it arrives to see how much it actually
cost him.


I've gone through the metal weight calculator and figured 12.5 lbs for the
stock, and guess another 1.5 lbs for packing material. Since he says he
has daily UPS pick-up, then he gets preferred rates. Which means he should
be able to ship a 14 lbs package to me for just $11.01.

But here's where it gets odd. He wrote: "Send the total for all (3)
auctions, and if the actual is much different than the estimated shipping
charge, I'll refund the difference. I belive the total shipping is quoted
around $12.00."

(Actually, the total shipping quoted was $17.70.)

In any case, he claims that he's not trying to make money off the
shipping, and that he will refund any overpayment. Given the
circumstances, I have little expectation that he will hold true to that
offer, but it certainly takes the wind out of the argument that his
intention was to pad his profits by overcharging on shipping.


The only other comment I have is that you should have asked him about
this BEFORE bidding since he didn't specify in his listing how he planned
to ship it. I know it's easy to say that now that it's too late but it's
something I learned long ago when buying via eBay.


I usually do clarify such things in advance. But he seemed like a
reasonable seller (stated "actual shipping charges) and I really didn't
expect there to be this kind of problem. In fact, even now I can't imagine
a reason for his obstinace.


BTW, the fact that you're using a postal money order doesn't
automatically mean that he's going to the post office anyway.
I normally either cash them at my bank or deposit them into my
checking account when I receive them so there's no need to take
them to the post office.


I did some more research on this after my initial communication with him
and discovered that bank deposits were an option. That is why I wrote him
back and explained how everything could be done from his home or office
(via free box delivery and free carrier pick-up, and with me mailing him
the postage and forms with my payment).

But his position is even more odd considering that he offers Priority Mail
on one of his other active auctions.

- Michael



  #37   Report Post  
SteveB
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Waynemak" wrote in message
...
I stopped using UPS because there rates are so high, $2.00 for residental,
$2.00 for pick up then about $1.00 per pound. What was a real PITA with UPS
is the fees I would get hit with AFTER item shipped. Some people within a
zip code would have a surcharge. I now use DHL and save my buyers about 40%
on shipping.


Depending on the weight, UPS is sometimes cheaper. Once, I had a package go
to Canada. I had to jump through hoops and give a credit card number for it
to go UPS, which was at a customer's request. Long story short, the
Canadian customs charged the person more than the item was worth in customs.
They were going to charge our credit card, but the decent buyer paid it out
of pocket instead of having us held up by Canadian Customs.

Now, we have a disclaimer that says item is described exactly on customs
forms, exact value is stated, and whether it is a gift, merchandise, or
whatever is stated, and that the buyer is responsible for whatever extortion
and fees their country wants to charge.

STeve


  #38   Report Post  
Spehro Pefhany
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 14 May 2005 19:28:59 -0700, the renowned "SteveB"
wrote:


"Waynemak" wrote in message
...
I stopped using UPS because there rates are so high, $2.00 for residental,
$2.00 for pick up then about $1.00 per pound. What was a real PITA with UPS
is the fees I would get hit with AFTER item shipped. Some people within a
zip code would have a surcharge. I now use DHL and save my buyers about 40%
on shipping.


Depending on the weight, UPS is sometimes cheaper. Once, I had a package go
to Canada. I had to jump through hoops and give a credit card number for it
to go UPS, which was at a customer's request. Long story short, the
Canadian customs charged the person more than the item was worth in customs.
They were going to charge our credit card, but the decent buyer paid it out
of pocket instead of having us held up by Canadian Customs.

Now, we have a disclaimer that says item is described exactly on customs
forms, exact value is stated, and whether it is a gift, merchandise, or
whatever is stated, and that the buyer is responsible for whatever extortion
and fees their country wants to charge.

STeve


The problem with UPS from US to Canada is that most of the fees are
actually charged to the recipient by UPS (and they attempt to blame it
on government fees). With mail the damage is limited to $5 on top of
the duty (most of the time it's duty free, electronics and stuff made
in the US are always duty free) and sales tax (which the buyer would
have to pay anyway).

They don't *have* to do it, they have special deals with some
companies to handle all the paperwork for a few dollars (eg. Newark),
but for the one-off shipments they can charge $40 or $50 extra for the
same thing. Fedex ground is fairly reasonable for heavy stuff, they
still charge a bit, but it's like half.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
  #39   Report Post  
Waynemak
 
Posts: n/a
Default

DHL is about the same as UPS online, thet gave me a 45% discount to start, I
used UPS for almost 2 years and they wouldn't give me the dicount. If
shipping to CA DHL is high, but most of my stuff ships in the US. The driver
is also much nicer with DHL, he gives me boxes for free if I need them.
"Ignoramus4744" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 14 May 2005 22:02:31 -0400, Waynemak
wrote:
I stopped using UPS because there rates are so high, $2.00 for
residental,
$2.00 for pick up then about $1.00 per pound. What was a real PITA with
UPS
is the fees I would get hit with AFTER item shipped. Some people within a
zip code would have a surcharge. I now use DHL and save my buyers about
40%
on shipping.


How easy are they to use? I am always looking for a better deal and
presently mostly ship by UPS.

i

"DeepDiver" wrote in message
...
"Keith Marshall" wrote in message
om...

But considering the fact that on the first listing of his that I looked
at (from the link you gave) he states the following for shipping
charge:

"US $3.95 - US Postal Service Priority Mail®"
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7514472115

I'd say HE'S the one that's being unreasonable. :-)

Thanks for bringing that to my attention!


I also find it hard to believe that UPS would cost $17.70 for something
the post office will ship for $7.70 but the flat-rate boxes could make
that much difference I suppose.

Yup, that's the beauty of the new Flat-Rate boxes. They offer two sizes,
either of which will ship for a flat rate of $7.70, regardless of
destination or weight (up to 70 lbs max). It really is a great deal!


If he sticks to his guns and does ship it by UPS I'd be sure
and check the label when it arrives to see how much it actually
cost him.

I've gone through the metal weight calculator and figured 12.5 lbs for
the
stock, and guess another 1.5 lbs for packing material. Since he says he
has daily UPS pick-up, then he gets preferred rates. Which means he
should
be able to ship a 14 lbs package to me for just $11.01.

But here's where it gets odd. He wrote: "Send the total for all (3)
auctions, and if the actual is much different than the estimated
shipping
charge, I'll refund the difference. I belive the total shipping is
quoted
around $12.00."

(Actually, the total shipping quoted was $17.70.)

In any case, he claims that he's not trying to make money off the
shipping, and that he will refund any overpayment. Given the
circumstances, I have little expectation that he will hold true to that
offer, but it certainly takes the wind out of the argument that his
intention was to pad his profits by overcharging on shipping.


The only other comment I have is that you should have asked him about
this BEFORE bidding since he didn't specify in his listing how he
planned
to ship it. I know it's easy to say that now that it's too late but
it's
something I learned long ago when buying via eBay.

I usually do clarify such things in advance. But he seemed like a
reasonable seller (stated "actual shipping charges) and I really didn't
expect there to be this kind of problem. In fact, even now I can't
imagine
a reason for his obstinace.


BTW, the fact that you're using a postal money order doesn't
automatically mean that he's going to the post office anyway.
I normally either cash them at my bank or deposit them into my
checking account when I receive them so there's no need to take
them to the post office.

I did some more research on this after my initial communication with him
and discovered that bank deposits were an option. That is why I wrote
him
back and explained how everything could be done from his home or office
(via free box delivery and free carrier pick-up, and with me mailing him
the postage and forms with my payment).

But his position is even more odd considering that he offers Priority
Mail
on one of his other active auctions.

- Michael





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