1. On a hunch, or perhaps it was something someone said earlier, I checked
those stellite bits and found that they are not magnetic. So back to the
bit bin and pulled out all the non-magnetic bits. It included:

a. All the stellite bits and blanks.
b. Some called "Tantung G."
c. Some called 525.

Are these latter two also Stellite? If it's not magnetic, is it
Stellite?

2. I noticed that some of my non-magnetic bits had an etched notice
"cutting surface." I've never seen that before. The tool blank doesn't
seem to be a composite. What is this?

3. I noticed that all the ground stellite bits had the cutting surface
opposite the etched "stellite" label. Is there a preferred cutting surface
for stellite? Or was it just to be able to keep track of what kind of bit
is what.

Boris

--

-------------------------------------
Boris Beizer Ph.D. Seminars and Consulting
1232 Glenbrook Road on Software Testing and
Huntingdon Valley, PA 19006 Quality Assurance

TEL: 215-572-5580
FAX: 215-886-0144
Email bsquare "at" sprintmail.com

------------------------------------------

On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 21:28:26 GMT, "Boris Beizer"
wrote:

1. On a hunch, or perhaps it was something someone said earlier, I checked
those stellite bits and found that they are not magnetic. So back to the
bit bin and pulled out all the non-magnetic bits. It included:

a. All the stellite bits and blanks.
b. Some called "Tantung G."
c. Some called 525.

Are these latter two also Stellite? If it's not magnetic, is it
Stellite?

2. I noticed that some of my non-magnetic bits had an etched notice
"cutting surface." I've never seen that before. The tool blank doesn't
seem to be a composite. What is this?

3. I noticed that all the ground stellite bits had the cutting surface
opposite the etched "stellite" label. Is there a preferred cutting surface
for stellite? Or was it just to be able to keep track of what kind of bit
is what.

Boris


All stellite alloys are nonmagnetic but there are
different stellite alloys compounded for different purposes. Some are
relatively ductile with hardnesses in the range Rockwell C 40 to 50.


The lathe tool and drill bit grade is Stellite 100,
produced both as ground bars and brazeable tips

From Deloro catalogue:-

"Deloro Stellite is a cast alloy and the best properties are found on
the outside chilled surfaces. The cutting edge should be kept as close
as possible to thes chilled faces."

Recommended geometry:-

Front and side clearance 8 deg
Reduce the 12 deg compound angle which ocurrs at nose to 8 deg

Top rake Mild steel 20 deg
High tensile steel 12 deg
Cast iron 5 deg


Jim

On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 21:28:26 GMT, "Boris Beizer"
wrote:

1. On a hunch, or perhaps it was something someone said earlier, I checked
those stellite bits and found that they are not magnetic. So back to the
bit bin and pulled out all the non-magnetic bits. It included:

a. All the stellite bits and blanks.
b. Some called "Tantung G."
c. Some called 525.

Are these latter two also Stellite? If it's not magnetic, is it
Stellite?

Tantung is a modern alloy similar in performance to Stellite. I
believe it's made up of similar elements as well. It's supposed to be
better than Stellite but I've not managed to use them both in the same
setting enough to prove that. I do know that Tantung didn't hold up to
a sever interrupted cut in stainless job that I did. But the fact is I
had problems with cheap cobalt bits holding up in that same situation
and had to go with good quality HSS bits.

The Tantung did hold up better than Cobalt bits in another part of
the same stainless job but I never felt it held up any better than the
old Stellite bit we tried on that job first. The reason we went with
the Tantung was because we couldn't buy Stellite.

I've not heard of 525 but it sounds more like a carbide designation
to me.

2. I noticed that some of my non-magnetic bits had an etched notice
"cutting surface." I've never seen that before. The tool blank doesn't
seem to be a composite. What is this?

I've seen a very few bits that are composite but are ground in such
a way that it's hard to tell.

3. I noticed that all the ground stellite bits had the cutting surface
opposite the etched "stellite" label. Is there a preferred cutting surface
for stellite? Or was it just to be able to keep track of what kind of bit
is what.


I'm betting that it was just the first persons to grind the bits
habit to put the label there. Most I've seen have been ground with the
label on the side.

Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook

"Boris Beizer" wrote in message
ink.net...
1. On a hunch, or perhaps it was something someone said earlier, I checked
those stellite bits and found that they are not magnetic. So back to the
bit bin and pulled out all the non-magnetic bits. It included:

a. All the stellite bits and blanks.
b. Some called "Tantung G."
c. Some called 525.

Are these latter two also Stellite? If it's not magnetic, is it
Stellite?

I'm not convinced it should be called Stellite, but they are likely not an
iron based alloy. I would expect they would perform similar to Stellite.
I am not familiar with the 525. I've used Tantung and don't feel it holds
up as well as Stellite, but could be wrong. Each application tends to be
slightly different, so without having both at hand, it's hard to say if one
is better than the other.


2. I noticed that some of my non-magnetic bits had an etched notice
"cutting surface." I've never seen that before. The tool blank doesn't
seem to be a composite. What is this?

You'll have to rely on the response from others. I've never seen it, so I
don't have a clue.

3. I noticed that all the ground stellite bits had the cutting surface
opposite the etched "stellite" label. Is there a preferred cutting
surface
for stellite? Or was it just to be able to keep track of what kind of bit
is what.

I can't help but think that those that are grinding the tool are mindful to
leave the nomenclature so they know what they're working with. What really
surprises me is that the ends of all the toolbits I bought off ebay still
have their markings. Unless both ends of the toolbits were marked, the
tools that were made from the balance of the bits were not marked.
Interestingly, included with the Stellite pieces were two pieces of Tantung
G as well. They were obviously used in conjunction with one another.

Harold

The tools marked "525" are Blackalloy. It is a similar tool to the
others mentioned. Its advantage is its interrupted cut strength. Great
for hex stock in stainless. Its weakness is temperature shock. In
other words flood cool and keep it cool or grind hot and DON'T DIP IT.
Temperature shock will cause flaking on the cutting edge. Overheating
will not anneal it. In fact it can be brazed like carbide when it gets
to short or to make form tools. The starting cutting speeds are double
those of cobalt. It used to be made in NYC, NY. They had cards with
geometry and cutting speeds. It is most often abused by DIPPING IN
WATER when sharpening.

Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:
"Boris Beizer" wrote in message
ink.net...
1. On a hunch, or perhaps it was something someone said earlier, I
checked
those stellite bits and found that they are not magnetic. So back
to the
bit bin and pulled out all the non-magnetic bits. It included:

a. All the stellite bits and blanks.
b. Some called "Tantung G."
c. Some called 525.

"Scott" wrote in message
oups.com...
The tools marked "525" are Blackalloy. It is a similar tool to the
others mentioned. Its advantage is its interrupted cut strength. Great
for hex stock in stainless. Its weakness is temperature shock. In
other words flood cool and keep it cool or grind hot and DON'T DIP IT.
Temperature shock will cause flaking on the cutting edge. Overheating
will not anneal it. In fact it can be brazed like carbide when it gets
to short or to make form tools. The starting cutting speeds are double
those of cobalt. It used to be made in NYC, NY. They had cards with
geometry and cutting speeds. It is most often abused by DIPPING IN
WATER when sharpening.


Well that's a very useful and important piece of information. I would
certainly have made that mistake. Now that you mention it, how about
Stellite and Tantung G . Do we treat them like HSS (and dip as we go) or as
525 or what?

Boris

--

-------------------------------------
Boris Beizer Ph.D. Seminars and Consulting
1232 Glenbrook Road on Software Testing and
Huntingdon Valley, PA 19006 Quality Assurance

TEL: 215-572-5580
FAX: 215-886-0144
Email bsquare "at" sprintmail.com

------------------------------------------

In article . net,
Boris Beizer wrote:
"Scott" wrote in message
roups.com...
The tools marked "525" are Blackalloy. It is a similar tool to the
others mentioned. Its advantage is its interrupted cut strength. Great
for hex stock in stainless. Its weakness is temperature shock. In
other words flood cool and keep it cool or grind hot and DON'T DIP IT.
Temperature shock will cause flaking on the cutting edge. Overheating
will not anneal it. In fact it can be brazed like carbide when it gets
to short or to make form tools. The starting cutting speeds are double
those of cobalt. It used to be made in NYC, NY. They had cards with
geometry and cutting speeds. It is most often abused by DIPPING IN
WATER when sharpening.


Well that's a very useful and important piece of information. I would
certainly have made that mistake. Now that you mention it, how about
Stellite and Tantung G . Do we treat them like HSS (and dip as we go) or as
525 or what?

Based on information posted in the past three years or so on
this newsgroup, dipping HSS is not a good idea, either. I would not dip
it.

It is carbon steel which needs the dipping to prevent
overheating and tempering -- *before* it turns blue from the grinding
heat. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
Boris Beizer wrote:
"Scott" wrote in message
roups.com...
The tools marked "525" are Blackalloy. It is a similar tool to the
others mentioned. Its advantage is its interrupted cut strength. Great
for hex stock in stainless. Its weakness is temperature shock. In
other words flood cool and keep it cool or grind hot and DON'T DIP IT.
Temperature shock will cause flaking on the cutting edge. Overheating
will not anneal it. In fact it can be brazed like carbide when it gets
to short or to make form tools. The starting cutting speeds are double
those of cobalt. It used to be made in NYC, NY. They had cards with
geometry and cutting speeds. It is most often abused by DIPPING IN
WATER when sharpening.


Well that's a very useful and important piece of information. I would
certainly have made that mistake. Now that you mention it, how about
Stellite and Tantung G . Do we treat them like HSS (and dip as we go) or
as
525 or what?

Based on information posted in the past three years or so on
this newsgroup, dipping HSS is not a good idea, either. I would not dip
it.

It is carbon steel which needs the dipping to prevent
overheating and tempering -- *before* it turns blue from the grinding
heat. :-)

HSS cannot take that kind of thermal shock and still maintain its toughness.
It's fairly tough but not that tough. You really shouldn't "dip" any kind of
hard steel.

As for Stellite and related superalloy cutting tools, they have a few
niches, but in general they don't fair well on the cost/performance scale.
They aren't hard enough to compete with carbide in hard materials and they
can't approach their cutting speeds. On modern machine tools, they're of
little use today.

However, someone mentioned something about non-rigid machine tools, and
that's probably a place where they do quite well, since they're fairly
tough.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
snip-------

As for Stellite and related superalloy cutting tools, they have a few
niches, but in general they don't fair well on the cost/performance scale.
They aren't hard enough to compete with carbide in hard materials and they
can't approach their cutting speeds. On modern machine tools, they're of
little use today.

However, someone mentioned something about non-rigid machine tools, and
that's probably a place where they do quite well, since they're fairly
tough.

--
Ed Huntress

Yep, that's why I said:

Stellite is very good for the guy that
tends to hand grind HSS tools instead of rely on inserts. Needless to say,
those that run CNC machines would not benefit at all.

Harold