I am in the market for a larger air compressor.

I try to buy good used equipment. I am leaning towards Champion and IR
for the two brands that I like...if you have other suggestions I would
to like to hear them.

When I look through the Usenet archives, I find repeated references to
how older compressors and their compressors were built better.

Well, are they?

Is it better to buy a new unit today that is likely value engineered
versus searching for a 20+ year old compressor like a Champion or an IR
T30 series?

The next question is what should one look for in an used air
compressor? What do you look at to size up whether an air compressor is
a buy or a dog?

I would guess that any compressor that I will want would likely be 3PH.
How would you recommend running a 2-5HP 3PH compressor in a shop with a
100 amp single phase panel? Rotary converter, VFD or replace the
compressor motor?

Finally, what do you consider to be a fair price for an used compressor
like a IR T30 5hp 80 gallon or a Champion 3hp 60 gallon that is 20
years or older? What percentage of the new price of a comparable
compressor would it be?

Thanks for all you can offer.

TMT

Excellent questions, which I had hoped would have been addressed before I
finally got my HD special (Husky)!! Which ain't so bad....
Ahm no 'spert, but I just been thru this travail, semi-successfully.

Here's what I lernt:

You gotta *hear* a compressor, or trust someone else's ears, to know iffin
you can live w/ it, it's noise level--esp. in a small shop.
I heard a friend's Speedaire hor'zl approx 20 gal jobby, was very impressed
by the noise level. Cast iron pump, 2 cyl (single stage), oil, belt
drive--those are *requirements*.
His li'l hor'zl SpeedAire was considerably quieter than his 60 gal 2 stage
vert. SpeedAire (Grainger's brand)!!

Then I noticed that some makes had pumps that appeared *identical* to that
on the SpeedAire!! A characteristic casting, stampings.
Guess where?
HD Huskies!
Which are, fwiu, really Campbell Hausfelds. The head, or at least the
stamped part of the head , is made in USA--big effing letters.
Could be that USA is actually some new province in China....
Husky claims a 5,000 hr life, 100% duty cycle... other more expensive units
claim 2-3,000 hrs. Who to believe???
Ito web/corporate presence, Husky is strangely incognito. Don't know what
the story is.... Campbell H does not explicitly acknowledge Husky as
theirs, from what I can see.

So I wound up getting a 26 gal vert Husky, *half price*, at HD--paid $183.
I in fact have a Speedaire identical to my friend's, but missing the pump,
which would have cost $190 from grainger! Plus I wanted a vertical, which
to me is better for drainage, as well as space.

Seems OK. Me and my buddy (who lives some distance away) are trying to
directly compare pump heads, to see how close they are. His has a sight
glass, mine doesn't. I bleeve you can kluge a sight glass.

*Some* HDs (w/ managers whose Asshole Quotient is lower than others) give
decent deals on demos/damaged items. My other friend (I only got two) got
an *80 gal 2-stage* husky for--$350!!!!! Huge. Had but a ding in it, in a
Queens HD. Perty quiet as well.

What I've done is connected 4 various-sized tanks in tandem to get more
volume--67 gal total. This way, the compressor runs longer, but less
often--less dimming of lites! And, longer running beats intermittent
running wear/tear-wise (total running times being equal).

Purists will protest, but you CAN compensate for "too low" a cfm for an
application with larger tank volume--unless the application is really really
demanding. You can also up the tank pressure, and have a reduced-pressure
regulator for an auxilliary tank.
This is very useful, for example, when some machines require 90-120 psi,
while blow-air need only be 40-60 psi, in many cases. Saves energy/money,
too. Just more initial plumbing, two air lines in the shop.
Nice touch, tho. A Norm Abrams sorta thing....

Your strat of a good old compressor is quite valid, imo.
You *cain't beat* the old lub-dub units, unless, I would imagine, you go
very high end/high price new.
Slow rpm, last forever, *quiet!!*, well made, *heavy*, nice--even the tanks
are cast iron!!!
Kellogg-American, which we abuse the **** out of, *simply will not
die*--over 30 yrs old!
Pumps like a muhfugguh.... almost 200 psi!!! (which was being used for blow
air!!!!!!!! Goodgawd, effing weapons!! No wonder the hoses wouldn't
last!!!) Good tech support, old company.
There are other classics--Quincies, I hear, but they are rare, I think.
Others will provide names/experiences, I'm sure.

How to tell iffin they're in good shape? Dunno--compression check, like in
a car?? Should work, but don't have the experience.
Me: assess/trust the seller?? Did they change the fukn oil/air
filter????????

There are no deals on ebay that I've seen. I've seen **** go for retail.
People are bidding up the good stuff like crazy.
Assholes on ebay--I want, I want, I want, I want... **** them...

The cheapest new 2-stage I've seen are about $1K even--a 60 gal IR, and some
Grainger stuff. 2-stage gives *much* higher cfm--about double or triple
what I've seen in single stage--important for plasma, painting, air tools.
My husky, w/ all it's extra tanks, can barely keep up w/ an HVLP ****ty
little sprayer.
The cheapest new single stage decent jobbies I've seen (26-30 gal) are
$400+; $500+ in Graingers.
I considered 2 stage, but don't really need it, good single seems quieter
(important to me), and then my "deal" came along.
Plus, ahm cheap--well, broke/cheap.

Good used classic stuff ain't being given away, dat's f'sure. Mebbe find a
shop closing down.... luck of the draw...

Rotary converter is dicey.
First, if I were to do this, I would have a dedicated rotary cuz compressors
do draw some juice.
VFD is irrel. here, I think--unless VFD can take a really big 3450 motor and
run it at 1750 as if it were a smaller motor, current wise--Can it??? Hope
someone comments.

Next, unless you know how to wire in the rotary so it starts up FIRST,
*followed by* the compressor, the converter will have to run *all the time*,
while the compressor cycles. Not a big deal, but sorta bothers me.
If your rpc is already running all the time then even less of a big deal!
Mebbe OK.

I think 220 single phase is fine, as the current draw at 220 is 1/2 that of
120, AND it balances the two legs evenly--which is convenient, w/ limited
amp service.
One problem w/ my HD jobby is that the motor sez 120/240, w/ the ostensibly
correct wiring diagrams, but the goddamm terminals inside the effing motor
don't exist for 220!!!!! PITfA!
Gee, I wonder if ""customer service"" will have a fukn clue.... Call me
back??? Yeah, right.....

If you already have an rpc, assuming it's somewhat decent sized, I don't
think putting a 2hp compressor on it will kill it, but mebbe just keep an
eye out for a good 220 motor, cheap--or real cheap at a salvage yard.
Depending on your overall shop load, etc., the rpc/compressor combo may just
be fine!!
You may want to amprobe stuff, just to make sure you're not killing things.

Asshole mfr's brag about HP (sears, et al), but it's all in the motor. I
personally think a *good* 1-2 hp motor could drive pretty large compressors.
You might have to fool w/ pulley diameters, and sacrifice some pump rpm/cfm
if you choose too low a hp, but overall no big deal. Beats flipping main
breakers!!
IMO, motors can get "pretty warm" and be OK, but not so warm that your hand
on it would be uncomfortable--just a seat'o'thepants guide.

I have a ****ty direct-drive Alton 11 gal buzzer (but w/ oil!!), which draws
MORE current than my "real" husky compressor!! At 120 V, the husky draws a
full 15 A at 120 psi, 12 amps at about 20 psi. The ****ty little Alton is 16
amps!
In general, chinese electric motors are notoriously inefficient, gluttonous
w/ electricity.

Once you get the hang of things, it's also easy to put these things together
yourself w/ what you might find--they are basically just generic tanks,
motors, regulator/shutoffs, pump head, some plumbing--no real big deal.
The pump head of course being the central pc of hardware.
Also, the motor/pump do not have to be mounted on the tank! Unless you want
portable.

My strategy, which sorta paid off, was my $99 11 gal horz'l Alton from Sam's
club, until I found sumpn I could live with for a while. And I now use the
Alton for extra volume, *and* I have a spare!

Dat's my story, my 1c. HTH

"Too Few Tools", but also Too Little Space!
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
ups.com...
I am in the market for a larger air compressor.

I try to buy good used equipment. I am leaning towards Champion and IR
for the two brands that I like...if you have other suggestions I would
to like to hear them.

When I look through the Usenet archives, I find repeated references to
how older compressors and their compressors were built better.

Well, are they?

Is it better to buy a new unit today that is likely value engineered
versus searching for a 20+ year old compressor like a Champion or an IR
T30 series?

The next question is what should one look for in an used air
compressor? What do you look at to size up whether an air compressor is
a buy or a dog?

I would guess that any compressor that I will want would likely be 3PH.
How would you recommend running a 2-5HP 3PH compressor in a shop with a
100 amp single phase panel? Rotary converter, VFD or replace the
compressor motor?

Finally, what do you consider to be a fair price for an used compressor
like a IR T30 5hp 80 gallon or a Champion 3hp 60 gallon that is 20
years or older? What percentage of the new price of a comparable
compressor would it be?

Thanks for all you can offer.

TMT

A good used compressor can be an excellent buy, but be sure it has an
ASME approved storage tank. This roughly doubles the cost/value of the
compressor.

Before buying a used compressor, remove the inspection plugs on the
tank and check its internal rust condition. You don't want an air tank
containing say 100-psi to burst. I've had it happen and it's a nasty
thing that can do a lot of damage or even kill you.

Non-ASME approved storage tanks are considerably cheaper to buy, but
OSHA doesn't allow them in a workplace, nor would I want one in my home
or garage.

Harry C.

wrote in message
oups.com...
A good used compressor can be an excellent buy, but be sure it has an
ASME approved storage tank. This roughly doubles the cost/value of the
compressor.

Before buying a used compressor, remove the inspection plugs on the
tank and check its internal rust condition. You don't want an air tank
containing say 100-psi to burst. I've had it happen and it's a nasty
thing that can do a lot of damage or even kill you.

Non-ASME approved storage tanks are considerably cheaper to buy, but
OSHA doesn't allow them in a workplace, nor would I want one in my home
or garage.

Good points.
Cept I don't know that all tanks have inspection plugs--which I gather are
*in addition* to where the plumbing attaches..
Does the lack of these plugs mean non-ASME?? Is ASME-approved plainly
visible?
My tank is now sorta hard to see... Defly does not have an inspection plug,
other than the 1/2" npt welded coupling that the regulator screws into.

I think someone posted recently about a friend or co-worker seriously
injured/killed by a bursting tank.
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll

Harry C.

If you run across a Quincy, snap it up! It will out-live your grandchildren
an be cheap to repair if ever needed. Where are you? Ihave a spare Kellog
5 hp 3ph. I would part with cheap.


"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
ups.com...
I am in the market for a larger air compressor.

I try to buy good used equipment. I am leaning towards Champion and IR
for the two brands that I like...if you have other suggestions I would
to like to hear them.

When I look through the Usenet archives, I find repeated references to
how older compressors and their compressors were built better.

Well, are they?

Is it better to buy a new unit today that is likely value engineered
versus searching for a 20+ year old compressor like a Champion or an IR
T30 series?

The next question is what should one look for in an used air
compressor? What do you look at to size up whether an air compressor is
a buy or a dog?

I would guess that any compressor that I will want would likely be 3PH.
How would you recommend running a 2-5HP 3PH compressor in a shop with a
100 amp single phase panel? Rotary converter, VFD or replace the
compressor motor?

Finally, what do you consider to be a fair price for an used compressor
like a IR T30 5hp 80 gallon or a Champion 3hp 60 gallon that is 20
years or older? What percentage of the new price of a comparable
compressor would it be?

Thanks for all you can offer.

TMT

Don't quote me on this one, but I believe that all ASME approved tanks
have inspection plugs. At lease I've never seen one that didn't.
(Check the ASME requirements.)

Harry C.

I would agree that a single phase is just as good as three phase but I
am looking for a good used industrial compresser which usually means a
three phase motor comes attached. That is why I phased my questions to
include how to deal with a three phase motor if it surfaces. If one can
not easily use a three phase, then I need to factor in the cost of a
suitable single phase motor.

Not to be a pain Ignoramus30662 but for this thread, would you mind
changing your setting so your contributions are archived. I just
finished spending hours reviewing the archives on the subject of air
compressors and to have tried to follow a years old thread with missing
parts would have been a real pain.

Thanks.

TMT

Good discussion.

These are the tradeoffs that I am reviewing now.

Thanks

TMT

Yeah, you too might decide to buy a cheapie compressor to hold you 'til your
dream one comes along, if that's feasible. Being "able to wait" is proly one
of the best buying strategies around!

After sniping about Husky's incognito-ism and anticipated useless cust svc,
I just got off the phone w/ them, and they were very helpful, very nice.
Solved my 220 wiring conundrum nicely. And they do apparently supply
Speedaire w/ parts and compressors!

Coulda still made do w/ my 11-gal Alton, but I'm runnin a big cnc milling
machine, and well, it just didn't look right!
Or sound right--the wife was complainin and complainin....
And, I have no idea how long it will last...

Forgot the cfm of my Husky at 40 psi, but as I think I mentioned, it could
just keep up w/ the draw of a paint sprayer. May want to keep that in mind
for your own purposes. If you want to know the numbers, I'll crane my
neck/back to see if I can read'em--the unit is sorta tucked away now.
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
oups.com...
Good discussion.

These are the tradeoffs that I am reviewing now.

Thanks

TMT