Hi,
I had a new AC unit installed and would like to know if it is
comparable to the old unit. Here are the specs:

Heil model CH3036UKB1 (old unit)
compressor RLA 20 LRA 107
fan 1/3hp FLA 1.4 LRA 3.6

Payne model PH10JA036-F (new unit)
compressor RLA 16.6 LRA 86
fan 1/4hp FLA 1.4

Is there anything else that would identify the quality of the new vs
old unit? Thanks for your input.

Katy

wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi,
I had a new AC unit installed and would like to know if it is
comparable to the old unit. Here are the specs:

Heil model CH3036UKB1 (old unit)
compressor RLA 20 LRA 107
fan 1/3hp FLA 1.4 LRA 3.6

Payne model PH10JA036-F (new unit)
compressor RLA 16.6 LRA 86
fan 1/4hp FLA 1.4

Is there anything else that would identify the quality of the new vs
old unit? Thanks for your input.

Katy


Lets see....you replaced an old ICP unit with a new ICP unit.

Unless you had the indoor coil replaced too, you wont see much difference.

Now, as far as quality? The name on the unit means nothing, unless its
Goodman, or Janitrol, then you got screwed over good.
The quality of the unit, means much less than if it was installed correctly,
meaning, new indoor matched coil. If you didnt, then you may find that the
new units full of problems, not connected directly of course, to the new
unit.
The quality comes from the installer, NOT the unit.
Installed correctly, you have a winner, reguardless of the nameplate.
Installed incorrectly, and you got a POS.

I do not like the Payne unit at all. The condenser fins are very tight and
not guarded very well. I would rather have another Heil installed. The
cost is about the same!


wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi,
I had a new AC unit installed and would like to know if it is
comparable to the old unit. Here are the specs:

Heil model CH3036UKB1 (old unit)
compressor RLA 20 LRA 107
fan 1/3hp FLA 1.4 LRA 3.6

Payne model PH10JA036-F (new unit)
compressor RLA 16.6 LRA 86
fan 1/4hp FLA 1.4

Is there anything else that would identify the quality of the new vs
old unit? Thanks for your input.

Katy

Payne is not an ICP product. The only equipment made by ICP is the
following Heil, Tempstar, Comfortmaker, Arcoaire, and Kenmore. The only
real difference in any of the names is the tag on the cabinet. The Tempstar
is supposed to be a higher end condneser, and Comfortmaker is a very low end
condenser.


"Steve@carolinabreezehvac" wrote
in message ...

wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi,
I had a new AC unit installed and would like to know if it is
comparable to the old unit. Here are the specs:

Heil model CH3036UKB1 (old unit)
compressor RLA 20 LRA 107
fan 1/3hp FLA 1.4 LRA 3.6

Payne model PH10JA036-F (new unit)
compressor RLA 16.6 LRA 86
fan 1/4hp FLA 1.4

Is there anything else that would identify the quality of the new vs
old unit? Thanks for your input.

Katy


Lets see....you replaced an old ICP unit with a new ICP unit.

Unless you had the indoor coil replaced too, you wont see much difference.

Now, as far as quality? The name on the unit means nothing, unless its
Goodman, or Janitrol, then you got screwed over good.
The quality of the unit, means much less than if it was installed
correctly,
meaning, new indoor matched coil. If you didnt, then you may find that the
new units full of problems, not connected directly of course, to the new
unit.
The quality comes from the installer, NOT the unit.
Installed correctly, you have a winner, reguardless of the nameplate.
Installed incorrectly, and you got a POS.

"Bob Pietrangelo" wrote in message
...
Payne is not an ICP product. The only equipment made by ICP is the
following Heil, Tempstar, Comfortmaker, Arcoaire, and Kenmore. The only
real difference in any of the names is the tag on the cabinet. The
Tempstar
is supposed to be a higher end condneser, and Comfortmaker is a very low
end
condenser.


True, yet United Technologies, who owns Carrier, Payne, and Bryant, also
owns ICP.
Tempstar replaced the Whirlpool name when Inter City Gas bought out Heil
Quaker.
ICP has been owned by UT since 1999.....my bad....technically she replaced
one United Tech product with another...
since both companies are owned by the same company.

hows that?





"Steve@carolinabreezehvac" wrote
in message ...

wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi,
I had a new AC unit installed and would like to know if it is
comparable to the old unit. Here are the specs:

Heil model CH3036UKB1 (old unit)
compressor RLA 20 LRA 107
fan 1/3hp FLA 1.4 LRA 3.6

Payne model PH10JA036-F (new unit)
compressor RLA 16.6 LRA 86
fan 1/4hp FLA 1.4

Is there anything else that would identify the quality of the new vs
old unit? Thanks for your input.

Katy


Lets see....you replaced an old ICP unit with a new ICP unit.

Unless you had the indoor coil replaced too, you wont see much
difference.

Now, as far as quality? The name on the unit means nothing, unless its
Goodman, or Janitrol, then you got screwed over good.
The quality of the unit, means much less than if it was installed
correctly,
meaning, new indoor matched coil. If you didnt, then you may find that
the
new units full of problems, not connected directly of course, to the new
unit.
The quality comes from the installer, NOT the unit.
Installed correctly, you have a winner, reguardless of the nameplate.
Installed incorrectly, and you got a POS.

Hi CB I posted a question on a Trane heat pump problem (DSS). in HVAC
and haven't gotten any real answers yet. I know that you are as
knowledgeable as anyone in the business about this problem. If there is
anyway you could help me, either by EMail, or in here or HVAC I would be
very grateful. I realize that an HVAC question in the other group would
be considered OT now, given the recent climate in there. Thanks Larry

"lp13-30" wrote in message
...
Hi CB I posted a question on a Trane heat pump problem (DSS). in HVAC
and haven't gotten any real answers yet. I know that you are as
knowledgeable as anyone in the business about this problem. If there is
anyway you could help me, either by EMail, or in here or HVAC I would be
very grateful. I realize that an HVAC question in the other group would
be considered OT now, given the recent climate in there. Thanks Larry


Go Fish offered what would be the best way to go about this.
Trane, a line we will be offering isnt my favorite line, but they are not so
bad. Problems can happen with any unit.

What I would suggest is to try your damndest to make sure its not a dead
mouse, or rat in the ductwork, or that they dont have kids that have hidden
something in the return if its at floor level (in the floor, or wall low)

If you can find nothing, pull the blower, and coil, and chem wash, using a
good foaming cleaner. Clean the entire blower housing and cage. I tend not
to always remove the motor, but insure that its been blown out with CO2 or N
before even thinking of putting power back to it.
Depends on if the shafts rusted to hell and back or if its still in like new
shape..if it is, take the motor out, but check it for mouse parts...be
suprised where those little ****ers can get. (had one get in this
morning...ask me how I know..LOL)

Blow the condensate drain, and be sure to put some antibac tabs, or strips
in the pan. Doubt thats the problem, but might be, and if the drain is ran
into a septic system like so many old ones are, either put a gravity feed on
it, and cap the old line, or pump it out.
the fact that they claim its started recently, makes me really lead to
either a septic feed drain that the P or S traps finally dried out, and
sucking in sewer gas, or a dead animal.


Also suggest a good deoderant and sanitizer for the case insulation. IF you
see ANY signs of mold on it (take a white cotton glove, or sheet and wipe
over the insulation in various places, comes back brown, or black fuzzy, you
got issues) you will need to sanitize the case insulation and find out why
its growing. A UV in this senario is a must, prefer two...one in the return
and one in the supply, and it need not be shining on the A coil, but would
suggest it on the return end at least.


Gotta ask...did you guys install it, and if so, did you replace or modify
the ductwork at the same time?
Did you install it based on a manual J or based upon the old units size?
Whats the current fan speed? Have you taken an IAQ sample and had it
checked? Have you ran a mold sample swab off the coil and surrounding areas?
(if you find mold in the unit, DO IT)

Got lots of questions, but no real answers till you check a few more things
and really, really, really look for a dead small animal. I had one like this
that was driving me bonkers, and I found a tiny grey mouse, that had thought
he could outrun the cage, on the motor side...if the unit had not been
installed just that month, I would have looked there since I would be
cleaning the cage anyway, but this little fart had either come up the drain,
or got in while we were installing the unit.....either way...it was an
interesting find.

CB-- thanks for the reply.Sorry I didn't post more info-- posted it in
alt.hvac. Anyhow, here is the scoop. Unit is a 5 ton 10 seer, upflow
standard (non variable) air handler in a closet upstairs on a two story
house. It was installed when the house was built 4-5 years ago (not by
us-we don't do new construction). I think the people are the original
owners, but didn't ask specifically. We had never been there before. She
said the problem just started last week. When I got there the unit was
off. Turned it on -- HP and strips-- and let it run . Everything fine.
Coil, blower, cabinet all nice and clean. Figured maybe the drain trap
had dried and it was somehow sucking sewer gas, but the drain just runs
outside. I checked the line at the unit and outside and no smell in it
at all. Said WTF. Then, just to check, put the c/u into forced defrost,
went inside and sure enough-- not nearly as bad as they made it out to
be, but definitely noticable. The strips had already been
on, so it was definitely from the coil. I remember seeing a bulletin
from Trane some time back, but as I recall, all it did was acknowledge
there was a problem, and gave no real causes or solutions. I think we
had another unit with the problem, and put in UV lights and ended up
taking them back and refunding the money as they did not help.I am going
to look into it more tomorrow, but I wanted to talk to people here who I
would trust more than some factory rep giving BS. I know Vicki is a
Trane A/S fan, and also NuCalgon. Maybe she will see the post in the
other group, if she can wade through the crap there. Have you ever run
into one doing what this one is? I don't know if this is something
peculiar to Trane or not. I have never heard of the problem on other
units, but around here there are far more Trane HPs than all others put
together. Thanks Larry

CB-- thanks for the reply.Sorry I didn't post more info-- posted it in
alt.hvac. Anyhow, here is the scoop. Unit is a 5 ton 10 seer, upflow
standard (non variable) air handler in a closet upstairs on a two story
house. It was installed when the house was built 4-5 years ago (not by
us-we don't do new construction). I think the people are the original
owners, but didn't ask specifically. We had never been there before. She
said the problem just started last week. When I got there the unit was
off. Turned it on -- HP and strips-- and let it run . Everything fine.
Coil, blower, cabinet all nice and clean. Figured maybe the drain trap
had dried and it was somehow sucking sewer gas, but the drain just runs
outside. I checked the line at the unit and outside and no smell in it
at all. Said WTF. Then, just to check, put the c/u into forced defrost,
went inside and sure enough-- not nearly as bad as they made it out to
be, but definitely noticable. The strips had already been
on, so it was definitely from the coil. I remember seeing a bulletin
from Trane some time back, but as I recall, all it did was acknowledge
there was a problem, and gave no real causes or solutions. I think we
had another unit with the problem, and put in UV lights and ended up
taking them back and refunding the money as they did not help.I am going
to look into it more tomorrow, but I wanted to talk to people here who I
would trust more than some factory rep giving BS. I know Vicki is a
Trane A/S fan, and also NuCalgon. Maybe she will see the post in the
other group, if she can wade through the crap there. Have you ever run
into one doing what this one is? I don't know if this is something
peculiar to Trane or not. I have never heard of the problem on other
units, but around here there are far more Trane HPs than all others put
together. Thanks Larry


Hey Larry,
Sounds like you have a case of "dirty sock syndrome". Typically, the smell
does come from the coil when it defrosts due to the extreme temperature change
which causes micro-organisms to give off the odor. And no, the problem isn't
peculiar to Trane. I have seen it on all the major brands, even some 90% plus
gas furnaces too. Basically, the high SEER equipment doesn't run a high enough
coil temperature to keep the little buggers away. Sometimes a good cleaning
with a acid based coil cleaner and treatment with something like Exodor will
make the problem go away for a while. Most times it will return, but sometimes
not. I think there is lots of theories out there about the source of the
problem and a cure, but I have not seen anything definitive. We have replaced
a few indoor coils with coated coils to prevent the growth of the buggers and
even one or two of them didn't turn out to be a long term solution. I have
heard it said that UV lights are the ticket, but you have already mentioned
that you haven't had success with that method. I did have a powerpoint
presentation that I got from a Trane distributor that had some info that helped
the homeowner understand what was happening and what we knew about it. It had
no real solutions other than to make the customer understand we were doing all
we could and basically, it was one big experiment because what worked at one
job may or may not help the next one. I think CB gave some good advice because
if you have mold growth, there has to be buildup on the coil in the cracks and
crevices. Good luck with it.

Bobby