IT is 0 degrees on this fine, sunny Chicago winter morning. The thermostat
is set for 72 and the house is sitting at 65. The house, built in 1967, is
heated with hot water radiant baseboard. Every inch of exterior wall that
can have a radiator, has a radiator. I have blown out the accumulated
dust/dog hairs of 30 years from the radiators so the air is once more
circulating freely. The boiler is busily cycling on and off maintaining a
water temperature of 180 degree. I conclude from that, that the problem is
at the radiator end. The boiler guy was out in the fall and replaced the
expansion tank and air bleeders and bled the system and pronounced it fit

1) WHat is the correct way to fix this?
2) Temporarily, can raising the water temperature to 190 give some relief?
How high can I go?

Note: there are 4 zones to the system but only 1 thermostat. THe house is
equally cool in all zones. I would suspect the wall to wall carpeting
(reducing the air flow thru the radiator) but the one room without the
carpeting is just as cold as everywhere else.

Jmagerl wrote:

About inadequate heating...

1. Is this a new phenomenon? You been in the house for a while or is
this first winter so you don't know history?

2. I don't know much about these systems, but if the boiler is
functioning as you say, sounds to me like there's either a circulating
pump that has failed or a valve is closed or some similar problem
keeping the water from circulating...that all areas are cool implies a
single-point failure.

"Jmagerl" wrote in message
...
IT is 0 degrees on this fine, sunny Chicago winter morning. The thermostat
is set for 72 and the house is sitting at 65.

Are the radiators warm at all?

Not familiar with these, but I assume that there is some mechanism to pump
the warm water from the boiler to the radiators. Have you checked that?
Fuses, etc.?

This is not a new event. I've been in the house 5 years and it does it every
winter

"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...
Jmagerl wrote:

About inadequate heating...

1. Is this a new phenomenon? You been in the house for a while or is
this first winter so you don't know history?

2. I don't know much about these systems, but if the boiler is
functioning as you say, sounds to me like there's either a circulating
pump that has failed or a valve is closed or some similar problem
keeping the water from circulating...that all areas are cool implies a
single-point failure.

The radiators are warm. All the valves are open. I hear no gurgling (air in
the system). I am thinking inadequate radiators but there is no room to add
any more.
"Noozer" wrote in message
news:gsSGd.102855$Xk.73345@pd7tw3no...

"Jmagerl" wrote in message
...
IT is 0 degrees on this fine, sunny Chicago winter morning. The
thermostat
is set for 72 and the house is sitting at 65.

Are the radiators warm at all?

Not familiar with these, but I assume that there is some mechanism to pump
the warm water from the boiler to the radiators. Have you checked that?
Fuses, etc.?

Raise water temp to 195, blead each radiator of any air. Is water level
correct, is pump running? Baseboard depending on type, normaly requires
higher water temps.

In article , says...
The radiators are warm. All the valves are open. I hear no gurgling (air in

If your thermostat is a setback type you might try locking it at one temp so
the furnace does not have to try and recover from the lower temps in set back
mode.

I had trouble in single digit temps during very windy day. I turned the boiler
temp up to 195 which helped.

A house built in 1967 might need more insulation or better windows.

If the ammount of heat pumped in is less than the ammount leaking out, it is
time to call several insulation companies, and see what they can do to make
your house more tight.

You can either increase the heat input into the house, or reduce the loss.
Reducing the loss is cheaper in the long run.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"Jmagerl" wrote in message
...
The radiators are warm. All the valves are open. I hear no gurgling (air in
the system). I am thinking inadequate radiators but there is no room to add
any more.
"Noozer" wrote in message
news:gsSGd.102855$Xk.73345@pd7tw3no...

"Jmagerl" wrote in message
...
IT is 0 degrees on this fine, sunny Chicago winter morning. The
thermostat
is set for 72 and the house is sitting at 65.

Are the radiators warm at all?

Not familiar with these, but I assume that there is some mechanism to pump
the warm water from the boiler to the radiators. Have you checked that?
Fuses, etc.?

A quick check of the baseboard temperature gives around 157 degree. I will
up the boiler to 190. I will admit I have no idea what the insulation
situation is other than the ceiling has about a foot of blown in in it.
About half of the windows are double pane. All windows have storms. The
doors could use some weather stripping but the windows seem tight enough.

"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
Raise water temp to 195, blead each radiator of any air. Is water level
correct, is pump running? Baseboard depending on type, normaly requires
higher water temps.

"Jmagerl" wrote in message
...
The radiators are warm. All the valves are open. I hear no gurgling (air
in the system). I am thinking inadequate radiators but there is no room to
add any more.

Check that it is operating properly at the burner.

Raising the temperature may help if the heater is cycling off and on. If it
never shuts off, that means it does not have enough power to heat the house.
If cycling, raise the temperature 10 degrees. If not, insulate and/or buy a
bigger heater.

Matt wrote:

My house stops eating for awhile when it gets really cold too. I
wouldn't worry about it too much, it's pretty normal.

Unless I want to remain inside, that is...

My house stops eating for awhile when it gets really cold too. I
wouldn't worry about it too much, it's pretty normal.

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 10:16:55 -0600, "Jmagerl"
wrote:

The boiler is busily cycling on and off

Is the circulating pump cycling on and off also? I would think it
shouldn't, given that you never reach the set temperature on the
themostat.

When you say it's 65 in your house, how do you know? Do you check it
at the thermostat location? In my house the thermostat is set for 70
(when we're home) but the house never gets up to 70. The reason is
simple: The thermostat happens to be in the warmest spot in the house.
(smart design, huh?) It is indeed 70 in that spot and the pump and
boiler cycle on and off as needed to keep it so. It's more like 66 in
my bedroom, which happens to suit my constitution (and wallet). If I
wanted it to be 70 I'd have to set the thermostat higher.

I guess what I'm saying in my long-winded way is this: Is your
thermostat calling for heat all the time? Or is it perhaps in a warm
spot, or miscalibrated, or defective, such that it is turning off the
heat at a lower temperature than you want? With older thermostats just
being physically off level could cause a problem like this.

Greg Guarino

Duane Bozarth wrote:
Jmagerl wrote:

About inadequate heating...

1. Is this a new phenomenon? You been in the house for a while
or is
this first winter so you don't know history?

2. I don't know much about these systems, but if the boiler is
functioning as you say, sounds to me like there's either a
circulating
pump that has failed or a valve is closed or some similar
problem
keeping the water from circulating...that all areas are cool
implies a
single-point failure.

Though he didn't mention any relationship between thermostat
setting and temperature, I wonder if it's just the thermostat
mis-indicating? He said there's only one.

Pop

You're supposed to eat more in the winter. Calorie is a measure of heat.
Houses need to eat more, too.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"Matt" wrote in message
oups.com...
My house stops eating for awhile when it gets really cold too. I
wouldn't worry about it too much, it's pretty normal.

If you are not reaching thermostat set point your pump should be running
continously, is it?

I've checked the thermostat. Seems to be level. it reads 65 while set to 72.
It calls for heat all the time. THe house seems to be of a uniform
temperature (I have thermometers in every room) just low. Raising the water
temp got me a few degrees on the air temp. Can I go higher than 190?

"Greg G" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 10:16:55 -0600, "Jmagerl"
wrote:

The boiler is busily cycling on and off

Is the circulating pump cycling on and off also? I would think it
shouldn't, given that you never reach the set temperature on the
themostat.

When you say it's 65 in your house, how do you know? Do you check it
at the thermostat location? In my house the thermostat is set for 70
(when we're home) but the house never gets up to 70. The reason is
simple: The thermostat happens to be in the warmest spot in the house.
(smart design, huh?) It is indeed 70 in that spot and the pump and
boiler cycle on and off as needed to keep it so. It's more like 66 in
my bedroom, which happens to suit my constitution (and wallet). If I
wanted it to be 70 I'd have to set the thermostat higher.

I guess what I'm saying in my long-winded way is this: Is your
thermostat calling for heat all the time? Or is it perhaps in a warm
spot, or miscalibrated, or defective, such that it is turning off the
heat at a lower temperature than you want? With older thermostats just
being physically off level could cause a problem like this.

Greg Guarino

The pump runs continuous but the burner cycles on and off (the water gets to
190). The thermostat may be old (an old honeywell dial type) but seems to
be working correctly.


"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
If you are not reaching thermostat set point your pump should be running
continously, is it?

"Jmagerl" wrote in message
...
The pump runs continuous but the burner cycles on and off (the water gets
to 190). The thermostat may be old (an old honeywell dial type) but seems
to be working correctly.

You can probably go a few more degrees.


If the heater is struggling, it may just not have the capacity of the system
to do the job.
Since it does cycle off, it is able to get the water hot, but you may not
have enough radiator surface area. Or you don' t have enough insulation, or
you have drafts, etc.
Close off the radiators in unused rooms (if you have any) to get more heat
to the used ones.

Since it will be very cold this week, consider some temporary supplemental
heat. It won't take much for a kerosene or propane heater to kick it up
another five degrees.

Did you post if it saw gas or oil? If oil, the burner may need a cleaning.
If the spray nozzle is not right, you don't get the proper heat. If the
heat exchanger is sooted up, you don't get the proper heat

Hi Edwin, hope you are having a nice day

On 17-Jan-05 At About 23:41:43, Edwin Pawlowski wrote to All
Subject: House won't heat

EP From: "Edwin Pawlowski"


EP Close off the radiators in unused rooms (if you have any) to get more
EP heat to the used ones.

This isn't going to make a difference. as long as the burner cycles he is
getting all the heat he can. one thing to do is make sure all of the
radiators are clean and not plugged with dust. also make sure the space in
front of them is open and the carpet isn't too high underneath them causing
restricted air flow.


-= HvacTech2 =-


... "I'm living on a one-way, dead-end street." - s.w.

___ TagDude 0.92á+[DM]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++
spam protection measure, Please remove the 33 to send e-mail

"Jmagerl" wrote in message
...
A quick check of the baseboard temperature gives around 157 degree. I
will
up the boiler to 190. I will admit I have no idea what the insulation
situation is other than the ceiling has about a foot of blown in in it.
About half of the windows are double pane. All windows have storms. The
doors could use some weather stripping but the windows seem tight enough.

It's not an issue of to small of a boiler, if it is cycling on the internal
thermostat!

Your best advice would be to call in a HVAC professional. As messing around
with boilers can lead to a catastrophe, if you are not trained to service
them.

~kjpro~

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
om...

"Jmagerl" wrote in message
...
The pump runs continuous but the burner cycles on and off (the water
gets
to 190). The thermostat may be old (an old honeywell dial type) but
seems
to be working correctly.

You can probably go a few more degrees.


If the heater is struggling, it may just not have the capacity of the
system
to do the job.
Since it does cycle off, it is able to get the water hot, but you may not
have enough radiator surface area. Or you don' t have enough insulation,
or



This would have nothing to do with it unless the boiler was firing the whole
time!

~kjpro~



you have drafts, etc.
Close off the radiators in unused rooms (if you have any) to get more
heat
to the used ones.

Since it will be very cold this week, consider some temporary supplemental
heat. It won't take much for a kerosene or propane heater to kick it up
another five degrees.

Did you post if it saw gas or oil? If oil, the burner may need a
cleaning.
If the spray nozzle is not right, you don't get the proper heat. If the
heat exchanger is sooted up, you don't get the proper heat

"Steven Fleckenstein" wrote in message
T...
In article , says...
The radiators are warm. All the valves are open. I hear no gurgling (air
in

If your thermostat is a setback type you might try locking it at one temp
so
the furnace does not have to try and recover from the lower temps in set
back
mode.

I had trouble in single digit temps during very windy day. I turned the
boiler
temp up to 195 which helped.

A house built in 1967 might need more insulation or better windows.

Again, his insulation value has nothing to do with it since the boiler
cycles on the internal thermostat.

~kjpro~

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
news
If the ammount of heat pumped in is less than the ammount leaking out, it
is
time to call several insulation companies, and see what they can do to
make
your house more tight.


That's fine and dandy to make the home more efficient, but there could be
several reasons for the boiler to fail to heat the structure.

But damn, you couldn't even answer my test question (about boilers) in the
Pro's group...there were many answers that could have been the one...but you
failed to reply with ANY of them.

Like always, you are a CLUELESS HACK!


You can either increase the heat input into the house, or reduce the loss.
Reducing the loss is cheaper in the long run.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Something.


~kjpro~


"Jmagerl" wrote in message
...
The radiators are warm. All the valves are open. I hear no gurgling (air
in
the system). I am thinking inadequate radiators but there is no room to
add
any more.
"Noozer" wrote in message
news:gsSGd.102855$Xk.73345@pd7tw3no...

"Jmagerl" wrote in message
...
IT is 0 degrees on this fine, sunny Chicago winter morning. The
thermostat
is set for 72 and the house is sitting at 65.

Are the radiators warm at all?

Not familiar with these, but I assume that there is some mechanism to
pump
the warm water from the boiler to the radiators. Have you checked that?
Fuses, etc.?

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
news:2nWGd.7627$qu2.3794@trndny08...

"Jmagerl" wrote in message
...
The radiators are warm. All the valves are open. I hear no gurgling (air
in the system). I am thinking inadequate radiators but there is no room
to
add any more.

Check that it is operating properly at the burner.

Raising the temperature may help if the heater is cycling off and on. If
it
never shuts off, that means it does not have enough power to heat the
house.
If cycling, raise the temperature 10 degrees. If not, insulate and/or buy
a
bigger heater.

WTF, if it's cycling raise the temp??????

IF it's cycling...the system is already unable to give off the amount of
heat the boiler is producing!!

~kjpro~

"Matt" wrote in message
oups.com...
My house stops eating for awhile when it gets really cold too. I
wouldn't worry about it too much, it's pretty normal.

You may call that normal, I call it that you either have a system that is
failing, or the unit is to small for the structure!

~kjpro~

Your system is under pressure and water will not boil at 212. You should
be at apx 12lb cold . I dont know what boiling point is at higher temps
but 200 wont hurt the system, call the boiler manufacturer.
Did you ever try bleading the radiators yourself? That is your first
step. And be sure water level is correct

It sounds like your radiators are undersized if you bleed each one of
air. More insulation in the attic and better windows and insulating
shades and curtains would be your best option. R 60-80 attic+ will help.
Cellular shades are R3.3 it will double LowE Argon values. Curtains and
liners will also help alot. R35 attic is Minimum code Chicago, Minimum
is minimum.

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 03:51:18 -0600, (m Ransley)
wrote:

Your system is under pressure and water will not boil at 212. You should
be at apx 12lb cold . I dont know what boiling point is at higher temps
but 200 wont hurt the system, call the boiler manufacturer.
Did you ever try bleading the radiators yourself? That is your first
step. And be sure water level is correct

Oh god! Ransley.........I cant believe your stupid ass. You think that
water in the boiler wont boil because its under pressure? Wrong. When
you get the limit setting near 200 you get very close to boiling the
water. First of all, those controls arent real accurate. Setting it at
200 or 210 will pretty much just about get the water boiling. 12 lbs
is also NOT some magic freakin number that boilers get set at. They
are all different. It is the height of the highest radiator. Have you
ever seen what a boiler does when it starts boiling in a hot water
boiler (not steam)? The boiler actually starts jumping on the floor.
It can get very violent and very destructive. Your webtv advice is
enough to get someone hurt or destroy perfectly good working
equpiment. Pick another topic you know something about.
Bubba

Oh mg Bubaass water under pressure wont boil at 200 you moron. And Weil
Mc Lain a company youve probably never heard about works as
manufacturers instruction at 12 lb cold with radiators 33 ft up , you
really should learn about equipment before you post BS . Try instaling a
few, My tech instaled it, set it right, just as the old unit was 12lb
cold. its obviously not a job for you, you have obviously never worked
on a 3 story house 10ft ceilings with full basement 8 ft ceilings. Go
hack em in today Bubbaass

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 07:47:01 -0600, (m Ransley)
wrote:

Oh mg Bubaass water under pressure wont boil at 200 you moron. And Weil
Mc Lain a company youve probably never heard about works as
manufacturers instruction at 12 lb cold with radiators 33 ft up , you
really should learn about equipment before you post BS . Try instaling a
few, My tech instaled it, set it right, just as the old unit was 12lb
cold. its obviously not a job for you, you have obviously never worked
on a 3 story house 10ft ceilings with full basement 8 ft ceilings. Go
hack em in today Bubbaass

Long before you started ****in in your diapers pussy boy. You wouldnt
know the correct settings on a boiler if it hit you in the ass with a
2X4.
12 lbs for everything I guess? What do you do with a boiler on a one
story slab, no basement? "Hell, 12 psi works for 3 stories so I guess
I'll use it for a one story too?" ---(says dumb**** Ransley the webtv
idiot)
You cant even do your own math. Look at you post above dip****.

Full basement 8 ft
1st story 10 ft
2nd story 10 ft
3rd story 10 ft
-------------------------------------
Ransley's total 33ft ??? WTF?

My total 38ft.

You still going to set that boiler at 12psi? I hope you like a cold
3rd floor.
Dumber than a box of ****ing rocks you are Ransley you webtv dickhead

Bubba

Bubbaass mororn you still do not get get it do you MORON 12 psi is
WEIL MC LAIN set point on a=A0 3 storey house , READ THE MANUAL U
dunb- turd moron - idiiot

Bubbass I Guess you never worked on quality residential heating - to
bad moron, it exists.. Unlike your Log Homes in hillbilly country which
require your Log Service!!!!!

Bubbaassa = Moronasssa

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 17:41:56 -0600, (m Ransley)
wrote:

Bubbaass mororn you still do not get get it do you MORON 12 psi is
WEIL MC LAIN set point on a* 3 storey house , READ THE MANUAL U
dunb- turd moron - idiiot

Yeah, right, Im the moron and you cant even post without double
posting. And you're still a retard if you're just automatically
setting a 3 story at 12psi. I dont think you know how to read a manual
and I noticed you paid no attention to the math I showed you. Go
figure. Oh thats right. Its webtv. Total ****-wit. Why dont you just
hang a sign on you that says, "Kick Me". Weil McClain set
point..........hehehe. You're killin me man, yur killin me.
Bubba

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 18:14:21 -0600, (m Ransley)
wrote:

Bubbaassa = Moronasssa

Your momma think that up and type it for you Ransley? Oh, thats right,
she told you that one while she was licking your back last night.
It must suck to be you.
Bubba

Thats the best you a " pro " can do ? Pathetic. 15lb water boils at
248f, so how will you argue Weil Mclain on that, Weil Mc Lain says 200f
water on a 12lb cold system is fine. I suggest you work Quality
residential sometime in your 25 yr career to Learn what systems use .
You sound too much like Dave of the South, Or Bubbaass , wood stove
specialist, trailer specialist. 200 f on 15lb on a HW system is fine,
it wont "Junp" as you say. But you are Bubba, the unexperianced , know
it all Tard.

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 14:43:56 -0600, (m Ransley)
wrote:

Thats the best you a " pro " can do ? Pathetic. 15lb water boils at
248f, so how will you argue Weil Mclain on that, Weil Mc Lain says 200f
water on a 12lb cold system is fine. I suggest you work Quality
residential sometime in your 25 yr career to Learn what systems use .
You sound too much like Dave of the South, Or Bubbaass , wood stove
specialist, trailer specialist. 200 f on 15lb on a HW system is fine,
it wont "Junp" as you say. But you are Bubba, the unexperianced , know
it all Tard.

Now all of a sudden we are on 15lb? You forgetting what you typed? You
said 12lb before. Id suggest you stop drinking so much. Its affecting
what's left of that gray **** between your ears you call a brain.
Now tell me something else BrightAss. Tell me when the last time it
was that you looked at the teensy tiny little P-O-S round thing Weil
Mclain calls a gauge and were able to distinguish that it showed 248
degrees ? For that matter, 10 to 15 psi is also hard to distinguish.
You have obviously proven your lack of brain matter and your ability
to drink mass quantities of alcohol to devise this **** you seem to
type. Face it loser, you haven't a clue what you speak and with web tv
you certainly don't know how to use the internet.
It must suck to be you living in a trailer out in the woods.
I'll bet you still have an outhouse?
Keep dreaming dickwad because that's all you'll ever have.
Bubba

"Full basement 8 ft
1st story 10 ft
2nd story 10 ft
3rd story 10 ft
-------------------------------------
Ransley's total 33ft ??? WTF?
My total 38ft. "

Bubba,
Wouldn't the total head of the system be measured from the top of the
water level in the boiler, not the top of the basemant floor?

Bert