my 10 year old gas fireplace has recently given me trouble with turning on
and off. when I moved here, the house had a simple wall switch that turned
the fireplace on and off. I subsequently wired an inexpensive manual
thermostat in series with the switch. Thus, the switch was the master
control - ON had the tstat controlling the fireplace. OFF was off it
has worked well for 1.5 years.....

anyway, problem with intermittent no-start. I take my first look under the
fireplace and the wiring was a joke. It is some kind of braided/insulated
single strand copper stuff running all over the place. a basic on/off
switch in the middle with a bunch of stuff taped and jigged up....not good.
I noticed that jiggling the wires from the hi-limit switch caused the fire
to jump. In the end I got brave and removed much of the old, brittle wiring
and am left with a bare gas valve and two wires from what I think to be a
dead hi-limit switch. I removed all of the excess wire that was wrapped
around the gas lines and in behind the blower for no reason....

right now I've got the pair of tstat/switch wires (from the wall) directly
jumpered to the two terminals on the gas valve, and the unit works
perfectly. switches on and off instantly.....having traced the wiring
diagram several times, all I can see is they had the hi-limit switch and a
microsswitch inline....am I missing something here?

questions:

1. the high limit switch shows continuity, yet when wired in series with
the gas valve, will not allow the fire to start. huh? Should I not be able
to run the high limit switch in series with one side of the tstat control
wires (say the white one) and have it work? because it doesn't - yet shows
continuity....and then will "sometimes" allow the fire to start....
2. the cheep wall thermostat - shows continuity when triggered, and open
when not (as you might expect). however, it will NOT turn on the fireplace.
If I manually short the leads and get the fire going, it will hold the fire
on and turn it off..... again, huh? it workd for over a year
perfect...clearly it has failed. didn't know they failed???
3. wiring - does any code or anything apply here (Ontario, Canada)? does
there have to be a certain style or type of electrical wiring underneath the
fireplace? or can I use the simple 16 awg. insulated primary wire (used in
car audio) for this app? I'm using it right now for testing with no
problems, but don't want to get into a code issue should a problem arise in
the future....

I've tried the tstat right at the gas valve (bypassing the wiring in the
wall) and it behaves the same. I'm going to get a new digital unit
tomorrow, this I know....but does anybody out there have any thoughts on
questions 1 and 3? My thinking is bad tstat, and bad hi limit switch mixed
with crusty old wiring....

thanks!
b

Hamilton Audio wrote:
my 10 year old gas fireplace has recently given me trouble with turning on
and off. when I moved here, the house had a simple wall switch that turned
the fireplace on and off. I subsequently wired an inexpensive manual
thermostat in series with the switch. Thus, the switch was the master
control - ON had the tstat controlling the fireplace. OFF was off it
has worked well for 1.5 years.....

anyway, problem with intermittent no-start. I take my first look under the
fireplace and the wiring was a joke. It is some kind of braided/insulated
single strand copper stuff running all over the place. a basic on/off
switch in the middle with a bunch of stuff taped and jigged up....not good.
I noticed that jiggling the wires from the hi-limit switch caused the fire
to jump. In the end I got brave and removed much of the old, brittle wiring
and am left with a bare gas valve and two wires from what I think to be a
dead hi-limit switch. I removed all of the excess wire that was wrapped
around the gas lines and in behind the blower for no reason....

right now I've got the pair of tstat/switch wires (from the wall) directly
jumpered to the two terminals on the gas valve, and the unit works
perfectly. switches on and off instantly.....having traced the wiring
diagram several times, all I can see is they had the hi-limit switch and a
microsswitch inline....am I missing something here?

questions:

1. the high limit switch shows continuity, yet when wired in series with
the gas valve, will not allow the fire to start. huh? Should I not be able
to run the high limit switch in series with one side of the tstat control
wires (say the white one) and have it work? because it doesn't - yet shows
continuity....and then will "sometimes" allow the fire to start....
2. the cheep wall thermostat - shows continuity when triggered, and open
when not (as you might expect). however, it will NOT turn on the fireplace.
If I manually short the leads and get the fire going, it will hold the fire
on and turn it off..... again, huh? it workd for over a year
perfect...clearly it has failed. didn't know they failed???
3. wiring - does any code or anything apply here (Ontario, Canada)? does
there have to be a certain style or type of electrical wiring underneath the
fireplace? or can I use the simple 16 awg. insulated primary wire (used in
car audio) for this app? I'm using it right now for testing with no
problems, but don't want to get into a code issue should a problem arise in
the future....

I've tried the tstat right at the gas valve (bypassing the wiring in the
wall) and it behaves the same. I'm going to get a new digital unit
tomorrow, this I know....but does anybody out there have any thoughts on
questions 1 and 3? My thinking is bad tstat, and bad hi limit switch mixed
with crusty old wiring....

thanks!
b


Hi,
Don't forget the interlock switch on the glass front.
I have two gas fire places in my house. There is interlock switch.
If glass front is removed, the switch triggers preventing gas ignition.
Wires are heat resistant kind.
Tony
(Calgary)

"Hamilton Audio" wrote in message
news:nPGCd.695239$Pl.480658@pd7tw1no...
my 10 year old gas fireplace has recently given me trouble with turning on
and off. when I moved here, the house had a simple wall switch that
turned the fireplace on and off. I subsequently wired an inexpensive
manual thermostat in series with the switch. Thus, the switch was the
master control - ON had the tstat controlling the fireplace. OFF was off
it has worked well for 1.5 years.....

anyway, problem with intermittent no-start. I take my first look under
the fireplace and the wiring was a joke. It is some kind of
braided/insulated single strand copper stuff running all over the place.
a basic on/off switch in the middle with a bunch of stuff taped and jigged
up....not good. I noticed that jiggling the wires from the hi-limit switch
caused the fire to jump. In the end I got brave and removed much of the
old, brittle wiring and am left with a bare gas valve and two wires from
what I think to be a dead hi-limit switch. I removed all of the excess
wire that was wrapped around the gas lines and in behind the blower for no
reason....

right now I've got the pair of tstat/switch wires (from the wall) directly
jumpered to the two terminals on the gas valve, and the unit works
perfectly. switches on and off instantly.....having traced the wiring
diagram several times, all I can see is they had the hi-limit switch and a
microsswitch inline....am I missing something here?


I am having the similar intermittant problems with my gas fireplace. I found
that the switch is bad. My system has a standard 120V wall switch
connectected to the low voltage wiring system. I don't know why but the
switch does not seem to last very long. My guess is that there is more
carbon build up from the different characteristics of the low voltage.
Maybe larger arcing when the switch is thrown on or off?
Doesn't your T-stat have an off position that you can use instead of the
series switch?
Kevin





questions:

1. the high limit switch shows continuity, yet when wired in series with
the gas valve, will not allow the fire to start. huh? Should I not be
able to run the high limit switch in series with one side of the tstat
control wires (say the white one) and have it work? because it doesn't -
yet shows continuity....and then will "sometimes" allow the fire to
start....
2. the cheep wall thermostat - shows continuity when triggered, and open
when not (as you might expect). however, it will NOT turn on the
fireplace. If I manually short the leads and get the fire going, it will
hold the fire on and turn it off..... again, huh? it workd for over a
year perfect...clearly it has failed. didn't know they failed???
3. wiring - does any code or anything apply here (Ontario, Canada)? does
there have to be a certain style or type of electrical wiring underneath
the fireplace? or can I use the simple 16 awg. insulated primary wire
(used in car audio) for this app? I'm using it right now for testing with
no problems, but don't want to get into a code issue should a problem
arise in the future....

I've tried the tstat right at the gas valve (bypassing the wiring in the
wall) and it behaves the same. I'm going to get a new digital unit
tomorrow, this I know....but does anybody out there have any thoughts on
questions 1 and 3? My thinking is bad tstat, and bad hi limit switch
mixed with crusty old wiring....

thanks!
b

"Hamilton Audio" wrote in message
news:nPGCd.695239$Pl.480658@pd7tw1no...
my 10 year old gas fireplace has recently given me trouble with turning on
and off. when I moved here, the house had a simple wall switch that
turned the fireplace on and off. I subsequently wired an inexpensive
manual thermostat in series with the switch. Thus, the switch was the
master control - ON had the tstat controlling the fireplace. OFF was off
it has worked well for 1.5 years.....

anyway, problem with intermittent no-start. I take my first look under
the fireplace and the wiring was a joke. It is some kind of
braided/insulated single strand copper stuff running all over the place.
a basic on/off switch in the middle with a bunch of stuff taped and jigged
up....not good. I noticed that jiggling the wires from the hi-limit switch
caused the fire to jump. In the end I got brave and removed much of the
old, brittle wiring and am left with a bare gas valve and two wires from
what I think to be a dead hi-limit switch. I removed all of the excess
wire that was wrapped around the gas lines and in behind the blower for no
reason....

right now I've got the pair of tstat/switch wires (from the wall) directly
jumpered to the two terminals on the gas valve, and the unit works
perfectly. switches on and off instantly.....having traced the wiring
diagram several times, all I can see is they had the hi-limit switch and a
microsswitch inline....am I missing something here?

questions:

1. the high limit switch shows continuity, yet when wired in series with
the gas valve, will not allow the fire to start. huh? Should I not be
able to run the high limit switch in series with one side of the tstat
control wires (say the white one) and have it work? because it doesn't -
yet shows continuity....and then will "sometimes" allow the fire to
start....
2. the cheep wall thermostat - shows continuity when triggered, and open
when not (as you might expect). however, it will NOT turn on the
fireplace. If I manually short the leads and get the fire going, it will
hold the fire on and turn it off..... again, huh? it workd for over a
year perfect...clearly it has failed. didn't know they failed???
3. wiring - does any code or anything apply here (Ontario, Canada)? does
there have to be a certain style or type of electrical wiring underneath
the fireplace? or can I use the simple 16 awg. insulated primary wire
(used in car audio) for this app? I'm using it right now for testing with
no problems, but don't want to get into a code issue should a problem
arise in the future....

I've tried the tstat right at the gas valve (bypassing the wiring in the
wall) and it behaves the same. I'm going to get a new digital unit
tomorrow, this I know....but does anybody out there have any thoughts on
questions 1 and 3? My thinking is bad tstat, and bad hi limit switch
mixed with crusty old wiring....

thanks!
b

I fixed one of these things that had a bad switch too. Luckily the switch
was DPST so I could just move the wires over to the other side. Ringing out
the switch won't help if it's intermittant unless you get lucky and catch it
acting up....good luck, Ross

"Tony Hwang" wrote in message
news:cHJCd.712390$%k.115273@pd7tw2no...
Hi,
Don't forget the interlock switch on the glass front.
I have two gas fire places in my house. There is interlock switch.
If glass front is removed, the switch triggers preventing gas ignition.
Wires are heat resistant kind.
Tony
(Calgary)

there was not microswitch on the glass door, even tho the installation
manual says there should be one. In reading the installation
guide, I zoned in on the clearances section. 1/2" to the left and right,
and 0" below the unit are allowable tolerances to combustible
materials.

I've been running the fireplace now for about 3 hours continuously and the
compartment below barely gets luke warm, which would confirm the
0" clearance on the bottom.

thanks for the input!

b

"Kevin Ricks" wrote in message
om...

"Hamilton Audio" wrote in message
news:nPGCd.695239$Pl.480658@pd7tw1no...
I am having the similar intermittant problems with my gas fireplace. I
found that the switch is bad. My system has a standard 120V wall switch
connectected to the low voltage wiring system. I don't know why but the
switch does not seem to last very long. My guess is that there is more
carbon build up from the different characteristics of the low voltage.
Maybe larger arcing when the switch is thrown on or off?
Doesn't your T-stat have an off position that you can use instead of the
series switch?
Kevin

I've replaced the old swing-type (mercury tilt) tstat with a brand new
digitally driven piece. It does have
heat/off/cool settings on it, and they work properly. However, there is a
dual switch panel right at the
doorway into the rec room - one for the lights and one for the fireplace.
its just so easy to make sure
both are off with the swat of the hand....

I've not had any problems whatsoever with the wall switch. In fact, the
total series resistance of the low
voltage trigger wires and the switch together is less than 1 ohm over the
total run. The bad tstat, however, was
over 7 ohms

bmoney

"Ross Mac" wrote in message
...

"Hamilton Audio" wrote in message
news:nPGCd.695239$Pl.480658@pd7tw1no...
I fixed one of these things that had a bad switch too. Luckily the switch
was DPST so I could just move the wires over to the other side. Ringing
out the switch won't help if it's intermittant unless you get lucky and
catch it acting up....good luck, Ross

Well its obvious. I've replaced the tstat with a new digital piece, and
have directly wired the low-voltage control wires right
to the gas valve (no high limit switch or anything else) and it is operating
flawlessly. MUCH better than before, cycling properly
to maintain 70 deg, etc. Very happy with it.

My last issue is now a matter of sourcing parts - its a GTI unit (heat n
glow) but in speaking with their tech line today, they can't seem
to find record of the model number I have Also, the plate with the
serial number has been painted over black, so I can't read it. Grrr.

Phoning to local dealers, there are many types of high limit switches, all
of which are denoted by their cutout and cut-in temps, neither of which
I can determine because the part number I have for it doesn't seem to exist
with the mfg. Clearly its a safety device I want functioning.....but I
get the feeling its going to be a pain....

bmoney