"gfulton" wrote in message ...

this is the type of thing I constantly hear about Home
Depot. If you've got a Lowe's hardware around you, give
them a try. And, no, I don't work for them or own their
stock. Without a doubt the best company I've seen about
returns, but I don't try to abuse their policy. Which
you also didn't do at HD. I've had nothing but good
experiences with them. Good folks in my opinion.

I live near a Lowe's and a Home Depot in NW Phoenix, and the Home
Depot has been a lot better than the Lowe's. This Lowe's made pricing
mistakes the first four times I shopped there, but I thought it was
because of grand opening confusion, but since then they've made a
pricing mistake about every 5-6 visits, and their employees still
don't seem to be knowledgeable at all. As for returns, I've made only
two. One was for a pack of Dremel cutoff wheels that I didn't even
open (they were the thick ones, which don't last any longer than the
thin ones), but when they opened them to count them they dropped a few
and broke or lost some and tried to charge me for them. I asked for a
supervisor, but the first employee lied to him and said I had used
some of the product. I told him to take a look at the security tape
to see that their employee had opened the hermetically sealed package.
Another time, I returned some paint that had probably been mixed for
someone else because it was yellow instead of the brown I specified
(the dab of paint on the lid was brown), but they told me that I
couldn't return a custom-mixed color. (???) In each case I finally
did get a full refund, but I've never had such bad service, except at
Best Buy and CompUSA.

"larrymoencurly" wrote in message

"gfulton" wrote in message
...

this is the type of thing I constantly hear about Home
Depot. If you've got a Lowe's hardware around you, give
them a try.

I live near a Lowe's and a Home Depot in NW Phoenix, and the Home
Depot has been a lot better than the Lowe's.
I've never had such bad service, except at
Best Buy and CompUSA.

And the list goes on. It varies from store to store in each chain. Some
get a handful of good employees that keep you coming back. Others in the
same neighborhood get the morons.

In town A, Lowes good, HD, bad. In town B, Lowes bad, HD good. In most any
town, local store better than any chain.
Ed

Similar experinces for me at Lowes in the Atlant metro area . Home
Depot is not great all the time but generally has much better Customer
Service .

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"larrymoencurly" wrote in message


"gfulton" wrote in message

...

this is the type of thing I constantly hear about Home
Depot. If you've got a Lowe's hardware around you, give
them a try.

I live near a Lowe's and a Home Depot in NW Phoenix, and the Home
Depot has been a lot better than the Lowe's.
I've never had such bad service, except at
Best Buy and CompUSA.


And the list goes on. It varies from store to store in each chain. Some
get a handful of good employees that keep you coming back. Others in the
same neighborhood get the morons.

In town A, Lowes good, HD, bad. In town B, Lowes bad, HD good. In most any
town, local store better than any chain.

I wish that were true, buy I find that many of the local stores are even
more incompetent than the megalo marts.

I have a friend who supplies vendor support to both chains over an entire
region. His take?

If you know exactly what you want and need little or no help/advice, go to
Lowes. Great stores, clean and well laid-out, but mediocre to poor
customer service and inexperienced (read low paid) help.

If you want good advice and excellent customer service, go to HD. Their
stores aren't as pretty or as well organized, but they pay better than
Lowes and attract older associates who have a lot of experience.

BTW , if you've ever wondered by HD aisles aren't numbered....it's so their
employees CANNOT refer you to an aisle number, but must take you there
instead. I know it doesn't happen 100% of the time, but it's a good
indication of where their head is.




"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
m...

"larrymoencurly" wrote in message

"gfulton" wrote in message
...

this is the type of thing I constantly hear about Home
Depot. If you've got a Lowe's hardware around you, give
them a try.

I live near a Lowe's and a Home Depot in NW Phoenix, and the Home
Depot has been a lot better than the Lowe's.
I've never had such bad service, except at
Best Buy and CompUSA.

And the list goes on. It varies from store to store in each chain. Some
get a handful of good employees that keep you coming back. Others in the
same neighborhood get the morons.

In town A, Lowes good, HD, bad. In town B, Lowes bad, HD good. In most
any
town, local store better than any chain.
Ed

I've had good experiences with Lowe's and HD. We must have some good
employees in my area of Texas. Never a problem returning anything, opened,
used, or even without a receipt.
"larrymoencurly" wrote in message
om...
"gfulton" wrote in message
...

this is the type of thing I constantly hear about Home
Depot. If you've got a Lowe's hardware around you, give
them a try. And, no, I don't work for them or own their
stock. Without a doubt the best company I've seen about
returns, but I don't try to abuse their policy. Which
you also didn't do at HD. I've had nothing but good
experiences with them. Good folks in my opinion.

I live near a Lowe's and a Home Depot in NW Phoenix, and the Home
Depot has been a lot better than the Lowe's. This Lowe's made pricing
mistakes the first four times I shopped there, but I thought it was
because of grand opening confusion, but since then they've made a
pricing mistake about every 5-6 visits, and their employees still
don't seem to be knowledgeable at all. As for returns, I've made only
two. One was for a pack of Dremel cutoff wheels that I didn't even
open (they were the thick ones, which don't last any longer than the
thin ones), but when they opened them to count them they dropped a few
and broke or lost some and tried to charge me for them. I asked for a
supervisor, but the first employee lied to him and said I had used
some of the product. I told him to take a look at the security tape
to see that their employee had opened the hermetically sealed package.
Another time, I returned some paint that had probably been mixed for
someone else because it was yellow instead of the brown I specified
(the dab of paint on the lid was brown), but they told me that I
couldn't return a custom-mixed color. (???) In each case I finally
did get a full refund, but I've never had such bad service, except at
Best Buy and CompUSA.

And chances are it'll go directly to the shelf without passing GO or
collecting the $200.00! I've learned to check rims of cans prior to
purchase to avoid "returns" but of course I'm related to Pavlov. Oh
where did ethics go? NOT to the box CEOs!

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 11:11:10 -0500, "ADC"
wrote:

I've had good experiences with Lowe's and HD. We must have some good
employees in my area of Texas. Never a problem returning anything, opened,
used, or even without a receipt.

larrymoencurly wrote:
"gfulton" wrote in message ...

....

I live near a Lowe's and a Home Depot in NW Phoenix, and the Home
Depot has been a lot better than the Lowe's. This Lowe's made pricing
mistakes the first four times I shopped there, but I thought it was
because of grand opening confusion, but since then they've made a
pricing mistake about every 5-6 visits, and their employees still
don't seem to be knowledgeable at all. As for returns, I've made only
two. One was for a pack of Dremel cutoff wheels that I didn't even
open (they were the thick ones, which don't last any longer than the
thin ones), but when they opened them to count them they dropped a few
and broke or lost some and tried to charge me for them. I asked for a
supervisor, but the first employee lied to him and said I had used
some of the product. I told him to take a look at the security tape
to see that their employee had opened the hermetically sealed package.

Another time, I returned some paint that had probably been mixed for
someone else because it was yellow instead of the brown I specified
(the dab of paint on the lid was brown), but they told me that I
couldn't return a custom-mixed color. (???) In each case I finally
did get a full refund, but I've never had such bad service, except at
Best Buy and CompUSA.


So you continue to shop at large stores who are so driven to keep prices
low that they hire people at the lowest cost possible leaving them with
those that can't get a job ANYWHERE ELSE that gives them a bit more say
in their schedule, pays more than minimum wage* with poor benefits.

And then you complain that it's not a good store.

Well no ****.

I've tried several of the locally owned hardware stores (often
franchises, but locally owned which profits mainly staying in my
community) until I've found the folks who are knowledgable and helpful.

Those invisible tips that make up for paying 10% more include things like:
"Oh, well if you're doing THAT, then you don't want galvanized - it
won't look good in a couple years. Use these instead and blow the extra
$0.30 for brass."
Or "try this is the brush and it works a little better. I been painting
for 30 years until I retired into workin' here."

And recommendations on a carpenter and a plumber.
Shall we discuss the lists of nightmare installs done by HD and Lowe's
"Contractors" (those willing to low bid and still give HD their vig).


*minimum wage:
"We'd pay you less, but they'd arrest us." (and yeah, sometimes the job
market dictates that they have to pay a little more, but by and large
it's the bottom dollar possible."


I like that Walmart has passed out handouts for employees teaching them
how to apply for food stamps and other state federal services. A House
of Representatives report showed that each Walmart job cost the
community $2000 in tax paid services.
But that lawn chair is only $2.49!

chuck yerkes wrote:
larrymoencurly wrote:

"gfulton" wrote in message
...

...

I live near a Lowe's and a Home Depot in NW Phoenix, and the Home
Depot has been a lot better than the Lowe's. This Lowe's made pricing
mistakes the first four times I shopped there, but I thought it was
because of grand opening confusion, but since then they've made a
pricing mistake about every 5-6 visits, and their employees still
don't seem to be knowledgeable at all. As for returns, I've made only
two. One was for a pack of Dremel cutoff wheels that I didn't even
open (they were the thick ones, which don't last any longer than the
thin ones), but when they opened them to count them they dropped a few
and broke or lost some and tried to charge me for them. I asked for a
supervisor, but the first employee lied to him and said I had used
some of the product. I told him to take a look at the security tape
to see that their employee had opened the hermetically sealed package.


Another time, I returned some paint that had probably been mixed for
someone else because it was yellow instead of the brown I specified
(the dab of paint on the lid was brown), but they told me that I
couldn't return a custom-mixed color. (???) In each case I finally
did get a full refund, but I've never had such bad service, except at
Best Buy and CompUSA.



So you continue to shop at large stores who are so driven to keep prices
low that they hire people at the lowest cost possible leaving them with
those that can't get a job ANYWHERE ELSE that gives them a bit more say
in their schedule, pays more than minimum wage* with poor benefits.

And then you complain that it's not a good store.

Well no ****.

I've tried several of the locally owned hardware stores (often
franchises, but locally owned which profits mainly staying in my
community) until I've found the folks who are knowledgable and helpful.

Those invisible tips that make up for paying 10% more include things like:
"Oh, well if you're doing THAT, then you don't want galvanized - it
won't look good in a couple years. Use these instead and blow the extra
$0.30 for brass."
Or "try this is the brush and it works a little better. I been painting
for 30 years until I retired into workin' here."

I've yet to get any better "service" at a mom and pop store. Instead
you get less selection, same or less knowledge and crummy returns
policy. There is a Home Depot two blocks from my house. I have
returned tons of stuff. Once I was there and the guy in front of me
returned half a deck worth of lumber, no questions asked. I have used
tools and have been able to return them simply because I didn't like how
they worked. At "mom and pop" hardware store returning a $2.00 unopened
bag of screws is a major ordeal. If you're working on a big project,
it's nice to be able to buy and extra couple boxes of screws, nails,
I've been able to return paint without any issues, whatever knowing you
can return it if you don't use it.

The only thing I will not usually do is buy paint at these places. I
had a very bad experience with a bad batch of paint. Although they did
send me a check for $700, I'm not eager to go through that again. As
for the other guy, I don't see what the problem is. Normally they mix
the paint right in front of you, open the can and paint a test strip so
you can see exactly what the color is before you leave the store (and
pay for the paint).

The HD near my house was built on a lot full of garbage. As part of the
deal, they cleaned up all the gabage, capped the dump and built a park
on half the land (to the tune of a couple million dollars) with the
store on the other half.

Our Lowes had very poor service. Then Home Depot put up a building
across the street and that changed everything. They are now
constantly trying to out-do each other. Competition is absolutely
wonderful for the customer !

"ADC" wrote in message ...
I've had good experiences with Lowe's and HD. We must have some good
employees in my area of Texas. Never a problem returning anything, opened,
used, or even without a receipt.
"larrymoencurly" wrote in message
om...
"gfulton" wrote in message
...

this is the type of thing I constantly hear about Home
Depot. If you've got a Lowe's hardware around you, give
them a try. And, no, I don't work for them or own their
stock. Without a doubt the best company I've seen about
returns, but I don't try to abuse their policy. Which
you also didn't do at HD. I've had nothing but good
experiences with them. Good folks in my opinion.

I live near a Lowe's and a Home Depot in NW Phoenix, and the Home
Depot has been a lot better than the Lowe's. This Lowe's made pricing
mistakes the first four times I shopped there, but I thought it was
because of grand opening confusion, but since then they've made a
pricing mistake about every 5-6 visits, and their employees still
don't seem to be knowledgeable at all. As for returns, I've made only
two. One was for a pack of Dremel cutoff wheels that I didn't even
open (they were the thick ones, which don't last any longer than the
thin ones), but when they opened them to count them they dropped a few
and broke or lost some and tried to charge me for them. I asked for a
supervisor, but the first employee lied to him and said I had used
some of the product. I told him to take a look at the security tape
to see that their employee had opened the hermetically sealed package.
Another time, I returned some paint that had probably been mixed for
someone else because it was yellow instead of the brown I specified
(the dab of paint on the lid was brown), but they told me that I
couldn't return a custom-mixed color. (???) In each case I finally
did get a full refund, but I've never had such bad service, except at
Best Buy and CompUSA.

At Lowes here in NJ, when you return something, they just take it back
with no questions asked, which is pretty stupid. Home Depot always
asks if there is anything wrong with it. I bought a couple of QuikSet
locks at Loews. One, the finish was clearly left off part of it at
the factory. The other was dented. If they asked what was wrong and
put a tag on it, they would return it to the manufacturer. Instead,
later someone will do a quick look, miss the defects and put it back
on the shelf. Net result, a big waste of everyone's time. And if you
follow that procedure long enough, you wind up with mostly bad ones on
the shelves.

This reminds me of years ago when I was doing a project in college and
needed a couple of IC's. So, I go to Ely's Electronics, which sells
surplus, used, etc. Old Ely sells me the chips, which I later
determine are defective. So, I go back and he rants and raves about
how all his chips are high quality, that it's impossible they could be
bad. Finally, he gives me two new ones and I watch him through the
two I brought back right into the bin with the new ones!

"Curmudgeon" wrote in message
...
I have a friend who supplies vendor support to both chains over an entire
region. His take?

If you know exactly what you want and need little or no help/advice, go
to
Lowes. Great stores, clean and well laid-out, but mediocre to poor
customer service and inexperienced (read low paid) help.

If you want good advice and excellent customer service, go to HD. Their
stores aren't as pretty or as well organized, but they pay better than
Lowes and attract older associates who have a lot of experience.

BTW , if you've ever wondered by HD aisles aren't numbered....it's so
their
employees CANNOT refer you to an aisle number, but must take you there
instead. I know it doesn't happen 100% of the time, but it's a good
indication of where their head is.

Every HD I have been in has numbered aisles.

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 19:29:35 GMT, chuck yerkes
wrote:

larrymoencurly wrote:
"gfulton" wrote in message ...

...

I live near a Lowe's and a Home Depot in NW Phoenix, and the Home
Depot has been a lot better than the Lowe's. This Lowe's made pricing
mistakes the first four times I shopped there, but I thought it was
because of grand opening confusion, but since then they've made a
pricing mistake about every 5-6 visits, and their employees still
don't seem to be knowledgeable at all. As for returns, I've made only
two. One was for a pack of Dremel cutoff wheels that I didn't even
open (they were the thick ones, which don't last any longer than the
thin ones), but when they opened them to count them they dropped a few
and broke or lost some and tried to charge me for them. I asked for a
supervisor, but the first employee lied to him and said I had used
some of the product. I told him to take a look at the security tape
to see that their employee had opened the hermetically sealed package.

Another time, I returned some paint that had probably been mixed for
someone else because it was yellow instead of the brown I specified
(the dab of paint on the lid was brown), but they told me that I
couldn't return a custom-mixed color. (???) In each case I finally
did get a full refund, but I've never had such bad service, except at
Best Buy and CompUSA.


So you continue to shop at large stores who are so driven to keep prices
low that they hire people at the lowest cost possible leaving them with
those that can't get a job ANYWHERE ELSE that gives them a bit more say
in their schedule, pays more than minimum wage* with poor benefits.

And then you complain that it's not a good store.

Well no ****.

I've tried several of the locally owned hardware stores (often
franchises, but locally owned which profits mainly staying in my
community) until I've found the folks who are knowledgable and helpful.

Those invisible tips that make up for paying 10% more include things like:
"Oh, well if you're doing THAT, then you don't want galvanized - it
won't look good in a couple years. Use these instead and blow the extra
$0.30 for brass."
Or "try this is the brush and it works a little better. I been painting
for 30 years until I retired into workin' here."

And recommendations on a carpenter and a plumber.
Shall we discuss the lists of nightmare installs done by HD and Lowe's
"Contractors" (those willing to low bid and still give HD their vig).


*minimum wage:
"We'd pay you less, but they'd arrest us." (and yeah, sometimes the job
market dictates that they have to pay a little more, but by and large
it's the bottom dollar possible."


I like that Walmart has passed out handouts for employees teaching them
how to apply for food stamps and other state federal services. A House
of Representatives report showed that each Walmart job cost the
community $2000 in tax paid services.
But that lawn chair is only $2.49!

This is American twenty first century retailing! The only people who
don't like it are the people working in the Mom and Pop stores they
are shutting down! Mom and Pop need to get with the program and use
their vast experience working at The Home Depot! If lots of people
weren't shopping in Home Depot and Lowes and Wal-mart...they wouldn't
stay in business...it's Capitalism man...Capitalism at it's best!

Bill

"Threeducks" wrote in message

I've yet to get any better "service" at a mom and pop store. Instead
you get less selection, same or less knowledge and crummy returns
policy. There is a Home Depot two blocks from my house.

Sorry to h ear that. Not every mom & pop can be forst class, but many are.


I have
returned tons of stuff. Once I was there and the guy in front of me
returned half a deck worth of lumber, no questions asked.

And we all pay for that. Many people buy and return tools because they are
too cheap to rent them.

I have used
tools and have been able to return them simply because I didn't like how
they worked.

A common experience. If you find a good independant store you won't be
returning tools. They will carry the better brands that will get the job
done the right way. HD and Lowes carry mid line and lower brands. If you
lived near Coastal Tool www.coastaltool.com or a similar store you'd get
the brands professionals use, good advice, and the supplies that go with
them. Most big cities have a similar store.


The HD near my house was built on a lot full of garbage. As part of the
deal, they cleaned up all the gabage, capped the dump and built a park
on half the land (to the tune of a couple million dollars) with the
store on the other half.

The publicity is good for them. It may be the only way to get into some
areas because others don't have the capital to do something like that. The
town thinks they got a good deal when what they really got is another giant
retailer. We all pay for it too.

"George" wrote in message
...

"Curmudgeon" wrote in message
...
I have a friend who supplies vendor support to both chains over an
entire
region. His take?

If you know exactly what you want and need little or no help/advice, go
to
Lowes. Great stores, clean and well laid-out, but mediocre to poor
customer service and inexperienced (read low paid) help.

If you want good advice and excellent customer service, go to HD. Their
stores aren't as pretty or as well organized, but they pay better than
Lowes and attract older associates who have a lot of experience.

BTW , if you've ever wondered by HD aisles aren't numbered....it's so
their
employees CANNOT refer you to an aisle number, but must take you there
instead. I know it doesn't happen 100% of the time, but it's a good
indication of where their head is.

Every HD I have been in has numbered aisles.



I guess this thing has turned into something similar to a
Catholic/Protestant, Ford/Chevy type argument. I'm definitely on the side
of Lowe's. Never had a bad experience with them whatsoever. I simply
prefer them to HD, but I guess it's mainly a subjective thing. In contrast
to what others have posted, I've found their employees very knowledgeable,
and I ain't no novice in home repair, etc.

Garrett Fulton




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chuck yerkes wrote in message news:zQOTc.316083$XM6.44475@attbi_s53...
larrymoencurly wrote:

I live near a Lowe's and a Home Depot in NW Phoenix, and the
Home Depot has been a lot better than the Lowe's.

So you continue to shop at large stores who are so driven
to keep prices low that they hire people at the lowest
cost possible leaving them with those that can't get a
job ANYWHERE ELSE that gives them a bit more say in their
schedule, pays more than minimum wage* with poor benefits.

And then you complain that it's not a good store.

Well no ****.

I've tried several of the locally owned hardware stores (often
franchises, but locally owned which profits mainly staying in my
community) until I've found the folks who are knowledgable and
helpful.

Those invisible tips that make up for paying 10% more include
things like: "Oh, well if you're doing THAT, then you don't
want galvanized - it won't look good in a couple years. Use
these instead and blow the extra $0.30 for brass."

Or "try this is the brush and it works a little better. I
been painting for 30 years until I retired into workin' here."

The main reasons I went to Lowe's so many times was because they're
almost right across the street from me (next to Fry's, which is near
Fry's), and Consumer Reports said that their paint was the best. But
now CR says that Behr is better, so there's no reason to ever visit
Lowe's again.

There's a really good Ace Hardware two miles from me, and I use them
for about everything but lumber and regular paint, because the service
is great (they always greet me within 15 seconds and know everything),
they carry about everything (they even had something that the plumbing
store in the same shopping center didn't carry), the product quality
is better, and the prices are usually about the same or less.

I've found that I can get good advice at Home Depot by asking the
employees who never smile because they're the ones from the
construction trades.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Threeducks" wrote in message


I've yet to get any better "service" at a mom and pop store. Instead
you get less selection, same or less knowledge and crummy returns
policy. There is a Home Depot two blocks from my house.


Sorry to h ear that. Not every mom & pop can be forst class, but many are.


And many aren't. Just because it's small doesn't mean it's good.


I have
returned tons of stuff. Once I was there and the guy in front of me
returned half a deck worth of lumber, no questions asked.


And we all pay for that. Many people buy and return tools because they are
too cheap to rent them.


I have used
tools and have been able to return them simply because I didn't like how
they worked.


A common experience. If you find a good independant store you won't be
returning tools.

You mean the one that took my $1,000 and then fed me a line about a saw
being "out of stock", but we'll have one on Friday, which turned into
"next Friday" and "next Friday", which turned into I had to call the
owner of the store to get the issue resolved (total time wasted without
a saw was one month).

They will carry the better brands that will get the job
done the right way.

Closed on Sunday. Open until 2pm on Saturday. Close at 5pm during the
week. Yeah, that's convenient to someone who actually works for a living.

HD and Lowes carry mid line and lower brands. If you
lived near Coastal Tool www.coastaltool.com or a similar store you'd get
the brands professionals use, good advice, and the supplies that go with
them. Most big cities have a similar store.


I'm in Detroit, we have plenty of tool stores here. In many cases
you're further ahead just to order from amazon.com.

The HD near my house was built on a lot full of garbage. As part of the
deal, they cleaned up all the gabage, capped the dump and built a park
on half the land (to the tune of a couple million dollars) with the
store on the other half.


The publicity is good for them. It may be the only way to get into some
areas because others don't have the capital to do something like that. The
town thinks they got a good deal when what they really got is another giant
retailer. We all pay for it too.


Yeah, we're all paying for the extra tax revenue and jobs created by
Home Depot.

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004, larrymoencurly wrote:

I've found that I can get good advice at Home Depot by asking the
employees who never smile because they're the ones from the construction
trades.

....that's *if* you can find such an employee. Or any employee at all, for
that matter. Overall employee-to-floorspace ratio sucks at all these
big-box chain stores, and that's *including* the useless employees who
don't know or care a thing about anything the store sells.

I shop at Home Depot and Rona regularly, but most of the time I have to
shift for myself and find what I need.

Oh, I know. Lowe's and Home Depot are terrible. You have to go and find
things by yourself. I would MUCH rather go to Ace or True Value and spend
two to three times as much for items like 60w. bulbs, PVC fittings, and
paint brushes. It is worth it to have that helpful hardware man or woman
lead me to those items, and I have two cuties at the local Ace store that I
like to go and take as long as I can and stand close to them and smell their
perfume............ but I digress................ I know where the items I
need are, having been there before many times, but still love to be pounced
upon by them when entering the store and have a personal guide to the VAST
areas at ACE. I think the prices at ACE may have something to do with the
salaries of the six or eight people who work in that small hardware store.

Just a thought.

EVIL Lowe's and HD!

Steve

Threeducks wrote:

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

"Threeducks" wrote in message


I've yet to get any better "service" at a mom and pop store. Instead
you get less selection, same or less knowledge and crummy returns
policy. There is a Home Depot two blocks from my house.

Sorry to h ear that. Not every mom & pop can be forst class, but many
are.

And many aren't. Just because it's small doesn't mean it's good.

No, but small and bad often leads to "out of business"

Large and bad doesn't.

I have
returned tons of stuff. Once I was there and the guy in front of me
returned half a deck worth of lumber, no questions asked.

And we all pay for that. Many people buy and return tools because
they are too cheap to rent them.

Guy I know did that. Got a bunch of plywood for a project. Couple
boards in, realized that... no... it makes no sense , but...
the plywood wasn't QUITE 8' tall. 7' 10.5". Perhaps that's why it
was cheap. I've also seen 2x4's that were stock size, but still green.
Not just wet, still oozing sap. 2x4 is 2" x 4" before it cures. And it
shrinks as it cures. We understand. Selling the post-cure size
pre-cure is just wrong. But it's how they get cheap lumber (perhaps
without know it - they just buy a deal from a mill).



They will carry the better brands that will get the job
done the right way.
Closed on Sunday. Open until 2pm on Saturday. Close at 5pm during the
week. Yeah, that's convenient to someone who actually works for a living.

Yeah, we have one of those here. Mainly sells to pros (who's living is
to build things). Kind of a PITA. So I tend not to get stuff there
when it's not a huge project (eg. it can fit in the back of my friend's
truck). I go to a different local store.

HD and Lowes carry mid line and lower brands. If you
lived near Coastal Tool www.coastaltool.com or a similar store you'd get
the brands professionals use, good advice, and the supplies that go with
them. Most big cities have a similar store.
I'm in Detroit, we have plenty of tool stores here. In many cases
you're further ahead just to order from amazon.com.

They sell top brands too. Just bad versions demanded by their lower
cost points. Plastic gearing, thinner fences. Same brand, just an
"-HD" model.

The HD near my house was built on a lot full of garbage. As part of the
deal, they cleaned up all the garbage, capped the dump and built a park
on half the land (to the tune of a couple million dollars) with the
store on the other half.

The publicity is good for them. It may be the only way to get into some
areas because others don't have the capital to do something like that.
The
town thinks they got a good deal when what they really got is another
giant
retailer. We all pay for it too.


Yeah, we're all paying for the extra tax revenue and jobs created by
Home Depot.

Tax revenue? Quite common (esp with walmart) is tax breaks.
And the $16,000/year jobs that then put the employees on medicare and
food stamps? Yeah, that's sweet.

We can move to well documented Walmart cases, bill:
| This is American twenty first century retailing! The only people who
| don't like it are the people working in the Mom and Pop stores they
| are shutting down! Mom and Pop need to get with the program and use
| their vast experience working at The Home Depot! If lots of people
| weren't shopping in Home Depot and Lowes and Wal-mart...they wouldn't
| stay in business...it's Capitalism man...Capitalism at it's best!

Right, if it's based on fair playing fields and competition.

Walmart, who refused to pass a resolution that it "not buy products made
with slave labor"... admirable.
Who pass out tactics to deal with recognizing and stopping any union
activity (workers rights, man, it's All American. or do you want to go
back to 6 day weeks of 12hrs/day?)

Pure capitalism would embrace paying their people just enough to live,
put them in Walmart Villages and pay them in WalScrip.

As it is, the VAST AMOUNT of money spent at large box stores LEAVES.

They don't buy locally, by and large. Displays are shipped preassembled
from CheapLabor Central to your community. Lights and supplies are
trucked in.

Guy who owns the Ace Franchise in town gets his display signs made down
the street at the (local) printing shop. The cash he "rakes in" is
spent locally.

There's a balance of economies.

As walmart is repeatedly sited, yet keeps going, it's clean that they
need a big ass "wake up" fine. Perhaps they next time they fire a group
of employees as a result of meeting at one of the employee's houses (on
their own time), fining them 2% of their net worth might pause that
practice.

No, these "jobs created" often cost your town/county and state MORE tax
money. The kids with no insurance get taken to an ER at 2AM when they
are sick, rather than to a doctor 3 days before. Guess what an ER visit
costs. Guess WHO it costs when the family makes $18k/year?


We are not a capitalist gov't. We are a representative democracy whose
businesses run on capitalism. Corporations are not people, through the
last 2 years has given them more rights that people. Ever seen a board
of a corporation go to jail because of their illegal actions? hell,
how often do rights of incorporation get revoked? Not uncommon as the
robber barons of the 1880s led to the Sherman Anti Trust act.


So don't use poor stores.
If you have a complaint, talk to the owner.
I've gotten my market to carry items that they didn't carry before by
chatting with a manager or the owner (and sometimes not).

Or stand around and watch your town become a community of service
workers working at the strip malls. Sorry, the local plumber had to
lower his rates because none of his customers could afford to pay him.
He'll put off buying that new truck from another local merchant for a
couple years. That washer can be fixed. Cut back a little on food
luxuries and building that deck, skip some movies. Fortunately, TV is
cheap and we can watch GE and Viacom and Disney tell us how wonderful
out lives are and how great things are. Ignorance really IS strength.

The race towards mediocrity.

|| At "mom and pop" hardware store returning a $2.00 unopened
||bag of screws is a major ordeal.

That's ture in many small businesses. Trouble is, each transaction is a much
larger part of their livelihood. For HD that $2 is literally a throwaway. They
can return it to the vendor, or more likely, they got a deeper discount with the
condition that they not return anything. They know they will get back 1.4% of
the stuff that vendor supplies, so they squeeze him for 2% or more. That is not
available to the small businessman, unless he is part of a strong trade
alliance. But most good business people will cheerfully handle a return if
a) It's in as-sold condition, unopened, ready to go on the shelf
b) you are a regular customer
c) You ask nicely
d) you don't abuse the return privelege

Pick any 3

Texas Parts Guy

"chuck yerkes" wrote in message
..

The race towards mediocrity.
Yep, that says it all.

I needed a 32-foot extension ladder and Lowes was the only place that
had them. So, I rented a truck and bout the ladder along with several
sheets of ply to stock up. I had to pick up the ladder in the back of
the store where a store worker loaded it into the truck for me. I
unloaded the truck back home and returned the truck to the rental
agency. The next day I decided to use the ladder to see how it works
and found out it was a 28-foot extension ladder! I examined the
receipt, and it stated a 32-foot ladder. I called Lowes and explained
what happened and asked them to pick up the ladder and deliver what I
paid for. They did. After they left, I discovered the one of the
bottom feet of the ladder was cracked. Again they came out swapped
ladders and left. I carefully examined the ladder and found several
rivets were missing! I called and spoke with the store manager about
the situation and we agreed that I would come out to the store,
inspect a ladder, tag it, and deliver the inspected ladder. They
did. It was a frustrating experience I'll never forget, but Lowes did
treat me with respect and dealt with the situation until I was
completely satisfied.

(larrymoencurly) wrote in message . com...
chuck yerkes wrote in message news:zQOTc.316083$XM6.44475@attbi_s53...
larrymoencurly wrote:

I live near a Lowe's and a Home Depot in NW Phoenix, and the
Home Depot has been a lot better than the Lowe's.

So you continue to shop at large stores who are so driven
to keep prices low that they hire people at the lowest
cost possible leaving them with those that can't get a
job ANYWHERE ELSE that gives them a bit more say in their
schedule, pays more than minimum wage* with poor benefits.

And then you complain that it's not a good store.

Well no ****.

I've tried several of the locally owned hardware stores (often
franchises, but locally owned which profits mainly staying in my
community) until I've found the folks who are knowledgable and
helpful.

Those invisible tips that make up for paying 10% more include
things like: "Oh, well if you're doing THAT, then you don't
want galvanized - it won't look good in a couple years. Use
these instead and blow the extra $0.30 for brass."

Or "try this is the brush and it works a little better. I
been painting for 30 years until I retired into workin' here."

The main reasons I went to Lowe's so many times was because they're
almost right across the street from me (next to Fry's, which is near
Fry's), and Consumer Reports said that their paint was the best. But
now CR says that Behr is better, so there's no reason to ever visit
Lowe's again.

There's a really good Ace Hardware two miles from me, and I use them
for about everything but lumber and regular paint, because the service
is great (they always greet me within 15 seconds and know everything),
they carry about everything (they even had something that the plumbing
store in the same shopping center didn't carry), the product quality
is better, and the prices are usually about the same or less.

I've found that I can get good advice at Home Depot by asking the
employees who never smile because they're the ones from the
construction trades.

Well - I used to shop at the Home Depot store in Santa Clara, California.
I once went to the lighting dept for help. Turns out the guy helping
me was an engineer moonlighting from his job at Underwriters Labs,
which is across the street from where I used to live. He said something
about putting kids through college. :-

As for local stores, there's an Ace store in my hometown that's been
around forever. It's known for excellent service. In order to get
service, you take a number and wait. It seems a bit more fair than
having to flag down an orange apron employee getting bombarded by
five people.

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004, y_p_w wrote:

As for local stores, there's an Ace store in my hometown that's been
around forever. It's known for excellent service. In order to get
service, you take a number and wait. It seems a bit more fair than
having to flag down an orange apron employee getting bombarded by five
people.

....and trying to hide from all five of them.

"Phisherman" wrote in message

They
did. It was a frustrating experience I'll never forget, but Lowes did
treat me with respect and dealt with the situation until I was
completely satisfied.

And it only took them four tries to get it right. It shows that they employ
people that are not very competent and sell merchandise that is not top
quality.

Did you ever wonder what the outcome would have been if you bought the same
material at a store that offered delivery?

chuck yerkes wrote on 15 Aug 2004:

And recommendations on a carpenter and a plumber.
Shall we discuss the lists of nightmare installs done by HD and
Lowe's "Contractors" (those willing to low bid and still give HD
their vig).

I had a friend who was a carpet layer who started doing installs
for Home Depot. They made him adhere to what he considered were
very strict standards, and he had always done excellent work
before.

Why would a contractor do these installs? Maybe because he or she
was tired of driving all over town to do estimates for those people
who had gotten the idea that they needed three estimates for every
job, even $200 ones. Let's not forget the customer who wants the
rock-bottom price, even when the contractor can't make a living at
that level without cutting major corners. Estimating can chew up a
ton of time, and if the contractor doesn't get the job, all that
time is wasted. With the big box, they bring your jobs to the
contractor, and he/she doesn't have to worry about being stiffed by
the customer.

For a lot of different reasons, there's lots of bad work out there.
You're as likely to get bad work from an independent as you are
from one of a big box's contractors.

--
Doug Boulter

To reply by e-mail, remove the obvious word from the e-mail address

"Doug Boulter" wrote in message
7.142...

For a lot of different reasons, there's lots of bad work out there.
You're as likely to get bad work from an independent as you are
from one of a big box's contractors.


I agree with this totally. The big difference with these HD jobs is that
more times than nought the buyers are cheap. You might get a great job
of laying carpet done, but the carpet is crap and wears out in 10 years.
But this isn't a reflection on the contractor, it's a reflection on the
customer.

Ted

"Ted Mittelstaedt" wrote in message ...

"Doug Boulter" wrote in message
7.142...

For a lot of different reasons, there's lots of bad work out there.
You're as likely to get bad work from an independent as you are
from one of a big box's contractors.


I agree with this totally. The big difference with these HD jobs is that
more times than nought the buyers are cheap. You might get a great job
of laying carpet done, but the carpet is crap and wears out in 10 years.
But this isn't a reflection on the contractor, it's a reflection on the
customer.

The last time Consumer Reports tested carpet, Aug. 1998, they found
that HD's own ratings for durability matched their own test results
well, and regardless of the manufacturer or seller, there was a lot
more variation in stain resistance than in durability.

Here in Fla they are giving out FREE supplies to ppl that need to repair
their homes after Hurricane Charley......So stop your whining and be
thankful for what you have, A FULL REFUND for your can of paint. Some
ppl here have lost EVERYTHING!!!!!!