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  #1   Report Post  
James Kilton
 
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Default New dryer install - use the same cord and outlet?

Hi,

I'm clueless about this stuff, so forgive me. We're replacing a dryer
that seems to use a 50A cord which goes into a 40A breaker. The new
dryer is 30A, which had me thinking that we'd need to get an
electrician out here. But the landlord talked to an electrician
friend of his who says that the 40A breaker is fine, and won't cause a
problem.

Is this accurate? I thought Amps were always supposed to be matched
up. Can the dryer regulate a 40A circuit down to 30A or should I have
a 30A circuit installed?

Thanks,
James
  #3   Report Post  
xrongor
 
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Default New dryer install - use the same cord and outlet?


"Dave Solly" wrote in message
...
(James Kilton) wrote in

news:212002a7.0407151351.14eb5ec4
@posting.google.com:

Hi,

I'm clueless about this stuff, so forgive me. We're replacing a dryer
that seems to use a 50A cord which goes into a 40A breaker. The new
dryer is 30A, which had me thinking that we'd need to get an
electrician out here. But the landlord talked to an electrician
friend of his who says that the 40A breaker is fine, and won't cause a
problem.

Is this accurate? I thought Amps were always supposed to be matched
up. Can the dryer regulate a 40A circuit down to 30A or should I have
a 30A circuit installed?

Thanks,
James


Since your dryer draws less (30 amps) than your breaker (40 amps), you are
fine.

Dave


i believe some local codes, if not the nec, require that if you have a 30
amp dryer, you use a 30 amp breaker. as was explained to me once, there
exists a mostly hypothetical situation where the dryer element could be
damaged but not break (i.e. not an open circuit), lowering its resistance
and raising the current above 30A but below 40A. thus the breaker wont trip
and your dryer could be drawing too much current and overheating. while i
agree it 'could' happen, im not sure i believe it or that its really much of
a worry.

that said, i would just replace the breaker with a 30A yourself. if you cut
power to the panel (not at the breaker in the panel, but the breaker where
the power comes into the building before it gets to the panel) you cant get
hurt, once you get the cover off its basically undoing two screws that hold
two wires which dont matter if they get reconnected 'backwards', pulling out
the old one, putting in the new one (they just snap in), and retightening
two screws with the wires back in them. any decent book on home fix it
electricity will explain the procedure very clearly. there isnt really
anything you can screw up if you turn the power off and dont do something
completely insane.

if it comes down to calling an electrician or leaving it, i would leave it.
the breaker itself is like 20 bucks tops (probably more like 10) and if you
do it makes some sense. an electritian will ream you.

randy


  #4   Report Post  
Pop Rivet
 
Posts: n/a
Default New dryer install - use the same cord and outlet?

Just for the sake of accuracy, although some of the
following advice it right, it's mostly not right for the
right reasons. Please see inline comments if trying to use
this info:

"xrongor" wrote in message
...

"Dave Solly" wrote in message
...
(James Kilton) wrote in

news:212002a7.0407151351.14eb5ec4
@posting.google.com:

Hi,

I'm clueless about this stuff, so forgive me.

=== That's part of the reason for the existance of these
groups.

We're replacing a dryer
that seems to use a 50A cord which goes into a 40A

breaker. The new
dryer is 30A, which had me thinking that we'd need to

get an
electrician out here. But the landlord talked to an

electrician
friend of his who says that the 40A breaker is fine,

and won't cause a
problem.

Is this accurate?

=== Yes, the statement is accurate. Whether it's allowed
or not is another question, one which can best be answered
by a call to your local Code Enforcement Officer. ONLY that
office can give you a definitive, OK to the insurance
industry, etc. type of answer as they call the shots.
Please read on and then contact them. With an electrician
friend or friend of a friend, you have ready access to the
number if you can't find it in the phone book under Building
Codes, Residential or something similar.

I thought Amps were always supposed to be matched
up.

=== The amperage of the ckt breaker can NEVER be less than
the amperage required by the equipment. Equipment
requirements will be indicated in tis documentation and on a
nameplate ON the equipment.

Can the dryer regulate a 40A circuit down to 30A or should I
have
a 30A circuit installed?

=== Doesn 't work this way. 40 amps would be the MOST your
breakerwould allow to flow. More than 40 amps and the
breaker would open up, turning off the circtuit. So, 40 is
greater than 30, and it'll work fine. Since the cable is
rated 50A, even if over 40 amps are drawn, the cable will
not be a problem. So, in this sense it's quite adequate.
Only your code officer would know if YOUR codes will allow
you to use it though.



Thanks,
James


Since your dryer draws less (30 amps) than your breaker

(40 amps), you are
fine.

The dryer does NOT "draw" 30 amps constantly. 30A will be
the maximum it will EVER draw, and probabloy will only come
close to anything like 30Afor the few seconds it takes the
heating elements to get up to temperature, after which the
total current will drop way down below 30A, maybe 20 or 25
amps, maybe lots less, depending on the design.



Dave


i believe some local codes, if not the nec,

Local codes ARE the NEC, with their own added increased
requirements. You must meet LOCAL codes. Only when local
codes are not in place can you rely on the NEC. Local codes
are usualloy more stringent than the NEC. NEC is the
MINIMUM requirements, and locals often up the minimums.

require that if you have a 30
amp dryer, you use a 30 amp breaker.

=== AND the correct cable, plug, and receptacle for a dryer
rated at 30amps! There are MANY 30A plug/receptacles, and
only one of them fits this application.

Question: Didn't the dryer come with a cord attached? It
had to have had one if it was bought legally. In such case,
the receptacle MUST accept the supplied plug on the dryer.
IF it came without a plug, and you are in North America,
then the UL/CSA integrity has been broken and this is not a
legal device. Your home or renter's insurance would look
down on such a thing if it caused a fire; as in, not
covered.

as was explained to me once, there
exists a mostly hypothetical situation where the dryer

element could be
damaged but not break (i.e. not an open circuit), lowering

its resistance
and raising the current above 30A but below 40A.

=== Flawed analogy. You cannot damage an element toward an
open ckt condition and cause it's resistance to go UP. But,
that;s irrelevant because it's the PLUG, CABLE and
RECEPTACLE which must carry the current here, and accordign
to the OP descrip, all would be fine (assuming wiring back
to the box was properly sized). I don't know what you
meant, but this is off target and incorrect.

thus the breaker wont trip
and your dryer could be drawing too much current and

overheating. while i
agree it 'could' happen, im not sure i believe it or that

its really much of
a worry.

=== This could be relevent if the analogy were correctly
posed.



that said, i would just replace the breaker with a 30A

yourself.
=== But, use the CORRECT plug and receptacle! Changing a
breaker is relatively easy, BUT STILL VERY DANGEROUS
since even with the Mains pulled (turned off) there is STILL
220 live inside that breaker box!

if you cut
power to the panel (not at the breaker in the panel, but

the breaker where
the power comes into the building before it gets to the

panel)
=== In most cases, there is no such thing. The main panel
is wired directly to the meter and you cannot pull the meter
yourself.

you cant get
hurt, once you get the cover off its basically undoing two

screws that hold
two wires which dont matter if they get reconnected

'backwards', pulling out
the old one, putting in the new one (they just snap in),

and retightening
two screws with the wires back in them. any decent book

on home fix it
electricity will explain the procedure very clearly.

there isnt really
anything you can screw up if you turn the power off and

dont do something
completely insane.

=== Not ture, and a VERY dangerous thing to be telling an
admitted newbie! It would be true for anyone with
electrical background, but NOT a complete newbie who doesn't
know the mains wire from the buss wire.



if it comes down to calling an electrician or leaving it,

i would leave it.
=== I don't think that can be stated when the type of
plug/receptacle has been completely omitted from any of the
discussion to date, NOR the electrical codes having been
checked.

IFF the dryer came with an attached plug, and IF it plugged
into the present receptacle OK, then yes, you likely could
leave it. But using the "old" cable, plug and receptacle?
NO, not necessarily allowable, and your home insurance could
depend on this being right! If it's not to code, it may not
be insurable!! Don't take chances.


the breaker itself is like 20 bucks tops (probably more

like 10) and if you
do it makes some sense. an electritian will ream you.

=== And that's total bullfeces. You cannot possibly know
that he would not get an hones electrician. You don't reall
know what you're talking about in this posting; you should
not have posted it.


randy


Maybe you are randy, but who are you, and you sure can't
find the CAPs key, can you? You write like a third grader.

Pop


  #5   Report Post  
toller
 
Posts: n/a
Default New dryer install - use the same cord and outlet?

Unless you have told your story wrong, it will not work. If the old cord
was 50a, it is the wrong outlet for your new 30a plug. It will not fit.
So, unless you want to replace it yourself (which, given your question, I
would highly recommend against) you will have to have an electrician in. He
will check to make sure the breaker, wire, outlet and dryer are all
compatible.

It is important that no part of the circuit be rated lower than the breaker,
and that the load not be rated higher than the breaker. As long as you do
that they do not have to be exactly the same.




  #6   Report Post  
Steve B.
 
Posts: n/a
Default New dryer install - use the same cord and outlet?

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 21:07:11 -0400, "Pop Rivet"
wrote:

Question: Didn't the dryer come with a cord attached? It
had to have had one if it was bought legally. In such case,
the receptacle MUST accept the supplied plug on the dryer.
IF it came without a plug, and you are in North America,
then the UL/CSA integrity has been broken and this is not a
legal device. Your home or renter's insurance would look
down on such a thing if it caused a fire; as in, not
covered.


Not to doubt you but I have never bought a dryer or stove that came
with a cord attached... They always sell them extra at some ridiculous
mark up. When did they change this?

Steve B.
  #7   Report Post  
zxcvbob
 
Posts: n/a
Default New dryer install - use the same cord and outlet?

toller wrote:
Unless you have told your story wrong, it will not work. If the old cord
was 50a, it is the wrong outlet for your new 30a plug. It will not fit.
So, unless you want to replace it yourself (which, given your question, I
would highly recommend against) you will have to have an electrician in. He
will check to make sure the breaker, wire, outlet and dryer are all
compatible.

It is important that no part of the circuit be rated lower than the breaker,
and that the load not be rated higher than the breaker. As long as you do
that they do not have to be exactly the same.



It sounds like the easiest thing would be to put a range cord on the
dryer to match the outlet. IIRC, a 50A outlet is OK on a 40A branch
circuit. It's not ideal, but I would not hire an electrician to change
anything in a house I was renting.

My house had a range outlet and 45A fuses for the clothes dryer when I
moved it. It's not right, but it works.

Bob
  #8   Report Post  
xrongor
 
Posts: n/a
Default New dryer install - use the same cord and outlet?

do i have a sign that says kick me on my back?

randy

Maybe you are randy, but who are you, and you sure can't
find the CAPs key, can you? You write like a third grader.

Pop




  #10   Report Post  
James Kilton
 
Posts: n/a
Default New dryer install - use the same cord and outlet?

Thanks for the advice everyone - very much appreciated. Some
follow-up comments/questions:

"Pop Rivet" wrote in message ...

=== AND the correct cable, plug, and receptacle for a dryer
rated at 30amps! There are MANY 30A plug/receptacles, and
only one of them fits this application.

Question: Didn't the dryer come with a cord attached? It
had to have had one if it was bought legally. In such case,
the receptacle MUST accept the supplied plug on the dryer.
IF it came without a plug, and you are in North America,
then the UL/CSA integrity has been broken and this is not a
legal device. Your home or renter's insurance would look
down on such a thing if it caused a fire; as in, not
covered.


It didn't come with a cord; in fact, the box even says something to
the effect of "no cord included". I had thought this was a standard
practice, as I almost ordered one online from Sears and they also had
me buying a cord separately.

That being said, I've seen images online of what 30A receptacles look
like, and mine isn't it. So I'm confident that my receptacle won't
accept a 30A cord.

But from what I gather so far, the current cord & receptacle will
work, but may be against code. This would at least allow me to use
the dryer now and get an electrician out here (shortly) down the line.
My concern was whether or not something bad could happen just by me
trying out the new dryer. But it sounds like there's no risk here?

Thanks again,
James


  #11   Report Post  
Rudy
 
Posts: n/a
Default New dryer install - use the same cord and outlet?

Not to doubt you but I have never bought a dryer or stove that came
with a cord attached... They always sell them extra at some ridiculous
mark up. When did they change this?


Sutherlands $ 20.00
Payless Cashways $ 14.97
Home Depot $ 11.97

The first two went out of business


  #12   Report Post  
Dan O.
 
Posts: n/a
Default New dryer install - use the same cord and outlet?


Rudy wrote in message ...

Not to doubt you but I have never bought a dryer
or stove that came with a cord attached...


Many electric ranges and dryers now have cords that specifically fit
the model (ie. has a special grommet on the cord which fits into a
holder on the range, etc.).

Often it can be difficult to install a 'universal' cord in place of
the one designed for the particular appliance.

JFYI

Dan O.
-
Appliance411.com
http://ng.Appliance411.com/?ref411=dryer+cold

=Ð~~~~~~



  #13   Report Post  
Pop Rivet
 
Posts: n/a
Default New dryer install - use the same cord and outlet?


"Steve B." this is not my real [email protected] wrote in
message ...
On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 21:07:11 -0400, "Pop Rivet"


wrote:

Question: Didn't the dryer come with a cord attached?

It
had to have had one if it was bought legally. In such

case,
the receptacle MUST accept the supplied plug on the

dryer.
IF it came without a plug, and you are in North America,
then the UL/CSA integrity has been broken and this is not

a
legal device. Your home or renter's insurance would look
down on such a thing if it caused a fire; as in, not
covered.


Not to doubt you but I have never bought a dryer or stove

that came
with a cord attached... They always sell them extra at

some ridiculous
mark up. When did they change this?

Steve B.


Far as I know it's never changed. HOWever, it also depends
on what country you're in, which is why I asked if it was
North America or where? In the UK for example, hardly
anything comes with a cord, but in the US, an electric dryer
will always come with a cord attached, which also is the
correct NEMA. All you have to do is plug it into a correct
receptacle for the supplied plug.
You CAN get them without cords, if you ask and the
retailer is willing, but ... that's not the norm. Normally
you just "plug it in" unless it's a hard-wire or some
special job. I'm beginning to think the OP isn't in NA but
haven't looked at all the threads.

Pop


  #14   Report Post  
Pop Rivet
 
Posts: n/a
Default New dryer install - use the same cord and outlet?

"James Kilton" wrote in message
m...
Thanks for the advice everyone - very much appreciated.

Some
follow-up comments/questions:

"Pop Rivet" wrote in message

...

=== AND the correct cable, plug, and receptacle for a

dryer
rated at 30amps! There are MANY 30A plug/receptacles,

and
only one of them fits this application.

Question: Didn't the dryer come with a cord attached?

It
had to have had one if it was bought legally. In such

case,
the receptacle MUST accept the supplied plug on the

dryer.
IF it came without a plug, and you are in North America,
then the UL/CSA integrity has been broken and this is

not a
legal device. Your home or renter's insurance would

look
down on such a thing if it caused a fire; as in, not
covered.


It didn't come with a cord; in fact, the box even says

something to
the effect of "no cord included". I had thought this was

a standard
practice, as I almost ordered one online from Sears and

they also had
me buying a cord separately.

That being said, I've seen images online of what 30A

receptacles look
like, and mine isn't it. So I'm confident that my

receptacle won't
accept a 30A cord.


Hmmm, interesting. Don't assume you have the wrong one just
'cause you didn't see it on a site. If you go to
http://www.quail.com/nema.cfm
you'll get a look at many of the different types of plugs
and receptacles there are. BTW, the R in the NEMA number
indicates Receptacle and the P the Plug.

You still haven't said whether you're from NA or not, so I
have to assume you are. The cord should have been part of
the purchased part IF you are in NA and the product meets
UL/CSA or Orange County, etc etc etc.. If you're not NA,
it's possibly a different story, as I said originally.

But from what I gather so far, the current cord &

receptacle will
work, but may be against code. This would at least allow

me to use
the dryer now and get an electrician out here (shortly)

down the line.
My concern was whether or not something bad could happen

just by me
trying out the new dryer. But it sounds like there's no

risk here?

Correct, it does not SOUND like there would be any risk,
from your description, and assuming you are safety aware and
capable with electricity.

What I do find really funny is that, since you got this from
a legit store, there was no documentation with the specific
information you need to install this dryer. It sounds as
though you may have gotten some sort of a contractor's deal,
in which case you may not have a warranty also - worth
checking.

Good luck

Pop


Thanks again,
James



  #15   Report Post  
Grandpa Koca
 
Posts: n/a
Default New dryer install - use the same cord and outlet?

Pop Rivet wrote:
"Steve B." this is not my real [email protected] wrote in
message ...

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 21:07:11 -0400, "Pop Rivet"




wrote:


Question: Didn't the dryer come with a cord attached?


It

had to have had one if it was bought legally. In such


case,

the receptacle MUST accept the supplied plug on the


dryer.

IF it came without a plug, and you are in North America,
then the UL/CSA integrity has been broken and this is not


a

legal device. Your home or renter's insurance would look
down on such a thing if it caused a fire; as in, not
covered.


Not to doubt you but I have never bought a dryer or stove


that came

with a cord attached... They always sell them extra at


some ridiculous

mark up. When did they change this?

Steve B.



Far as I know it's never changed. HOWever, it also depends
on what country you're in, which is why I asked if it was
North America or where? In the UK for example, hardly
anything comes with a cord, but in the US, an electric dryer
will always come with a cord attached, which also is the
correct NEMA. All you have to do is plug it into a correct
receptacle for the supplied plug.
You CAN get them without cords, if you ask and the
retailer is willing, but ... that's not the norm. Normally
you just "plug it in" unless it's a hard-wire or some
special job. I'm beginning to think the OP isn't in NA but
haven't looked at all the threads.

Pop


Well I'm in North America, and have legally bought two dryers in the
last 5 years. Both of them from reputable dealers and neither of them
came with a cord in the box. In fact, if you peruse the online
specifications of various manufacturers, there is a section that looks
something like this:

"30A, 120/240V, 60HZ, AC-ONLY. USE COPPER WIRE ONLY. A FOUR-WIRE OR
THREE-WIRE, SINGLE PHASE ELECTRICAL SUPPLY REQUIRED. A TIME-DELAY FUSE
OR CIRCUIT BREAKER AND SEPARATE CIRCUIT IS RECOMMENDED."

In fact, the Amana site states specifically: Electric cord - not
supplied with dryer.

And the dealers asked me if I had a three or four prong outlet at the
installation site. They then charged me for the appropriate cord. The
installers brought the dryers, cords, and ducting and completed the
installations.

Neither GE nor Whirlpool come "with" a cord attached. In the
installation instructions, there are sections for making the connections
using either three or four prong cords.

In my recent experience in North America, I'd say that finding an
electric dryer with a cord attached is not the norm. And they are UL
listed. Now if its a gas dryer, then they do have the cords attached
properly wired for 110V.

--
Grandpa Koca - SAHD for 6 - Keeper of the Perpetual Kindergarten
To send me email, see: http://homepage.mac.com/papakoca/
A computer without Windows is like a chocolate cake without
mustard.



  #16   Report Post  
Edwin Pawlowski
 
Posts: n/a
Default New dryer install - use the same cord and outlet?


"Pop Rivet" wrote in message



Far as I know it's never changed. HOWever, it also depends
on what country you're in, which is why I asked if it was
North America or where? In the UK for example, hardly
anything comes with a cord, but in the US, an electric dryer
will always come with a cord attached, which also is the
correct NEMA. All you have to do is plug it into a correct
receptacle for the supplied plug.
You CAN get them without cords, if you ask and the
retailer is willing, but ... that's not the norm. Normally
you just "plug it in" unless it's a hard-wire or some
special job. I'm beginning to think the OP isn't in NA but
haven't looked at all the threads.

Pop


You have things backwards. Bought my first electric dryer 23 years ago and
no cord. my son recently bought one - - - no cord. Dealer says none of them
have cords.

The Maytag manuals show the cord as "not included".
http://www.maytag.com/cust_serv/pdf_...netinstall.pdf


  #17   Report Post  
jeff
 
Posts: n/a
Default New dryer install - use the same cord and outlet?

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message om...
"Pop Rivet" wrote in message
Far as I know it's never changed. HOWever, it also depends
on what country you're in, which is why I asked if it was
North America or where? In the UK for example, hardly
anything comes with a cord, but in the US, an electric dryer
will always come with a cord attached, which also is the
correct NEMA. All you have to do is plug it into a correct
receptacle for the supplied plug.
You CAN get them without cords, if you ask and the
retailer is willing, but ... that's not the norm. Normally
you just "plug it in" unless it's a hard-wire or some
special job. I'm beginning to think the OP isn't in NA but
haven't looked at all the threads.

Pop


You have things backwards. Bought my first electric dryer 23 years ago and
no cord. my son recently bought one - - - no cord. Dealer says none of them
have cords.

The Maytag manuals show the cord as "not included".
http://www.maytag.com/cust_serv/pdf_...netinstall.pdf


G'day,
Y'all should get your appliances in Canada, they ( dryers and ranges )
come with a cord ( manditory ) and only one style of an cord for each
appliance which is a lot less confusing!
The normal built in stuff of course doesn't have a cord ( d/w, ovens,
cooktop ).

jeff.
Appliance Repair Aid
http://www.applianceaid.com/
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