We're thinking of having an in ground pool installed, but we know nothing
about them. Can anyone recommend a site or resource that can help a newbie
learn and do research?

BV.

We're thinking of having an in ground pool installed, but we know nothing
about them. Can anyone recommend a site or resource that can help a newbie
learn and do research?

Start a notebook Do a Google search. Do a Yahoo search. Do a public library
search. Search the archives in this NG. Talk to contractors for pools listed in
your yellow pages. Take a course in pool maintainance and chemistry. Look up
trade associations for pools. Study local building codes for pools. Visit pool
supply stores and ask questions.
After a few weeks, review your findings, then decide if you are up to the task.
Good luck.

Joe

"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
...
We're thinking of having an in ground pool installed, but we know nothing
about them. Can anyone recommend a site or resource that can help a newbie
learn and do research?

BV.

Talk to neighbors and friends about local contractors. Here we even have a
company that will allow you to do most of the work your self and oversee the
job for quality.

Check the BBB for complaints on the contractors. Most folks I know never get
the pool on time. That is the beginning of the problems.

I am building a pool as we speak. These are some I came up with.

http://swimming.about.com/gi/dynamic...A%2F%2Fpool-in
formation.com%2Fconstruc.html
http://swimming.about.com/cs/pooldes...=swimming+pool
http://ashtonpools.com/pools/care/hydraulics.htm
http://www.poolcenter.com/library.htm
http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/solar/APPS/P...g.HTM#Economic

"Greg" wrote in message
...
I am building a pool as we speak. These are some I came up with.

http://swimming.about.com/gi/dynamic...A%2F%2Fpool-in
formation.com%2Fconstruc.html
http://swimming.about.com/cs/pooldes...=swimming+pool
http://ashtonpools.com/pools/care/hydraulics.htm
http://www.poolcenter.com/library.htm
http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/solar/APPS/P...g.HTM#Economic

Nice. Thanks.

BV.

I am acting as the contractor. I subbed out the dig, steel and shoot. (~$6000)
I have a "dirt guy" who hauled away the dirt and backfilled the hole for the
value of the dirt.
I did the plumbing and electric and I have a plaster guy coming to apply the
interior finish (~$2000).
I have another two - three thousand in hardware, concrete and "home depot" type
bills.
The most expensive thing is the screen cage (~$8500) but you may not be doing
that.

If I stay on schedule I will be from permit to water in the pool in 32 days
(started 5/26) but that is an unusually fast install. So far all of my subs
have been on time and on schedule. That is unusual too.

Not intending to throw water on this subject, but I think the first thing I
would do is make absolutely certain that you want a pool in the first place.
I had one put in about 18 years ago when my kids were still living with us.
It was used quite a bit for the first 2 - 3 years and then the use started
tapering off. Nowadays, it only gets used about a half dozen times during
the hottest days in the summer.

You should also check with local and state agencies regarding laws about
pools. Any licensed pool contractor should also be able to help there.
When I had my pool installed, I did not have to fence in the pool, but I had
to make sure that every door that led into the back yard would either
automatically close and lock, or had an audible alarm on it. For example, I
had a wooden side gate to get from the front yard to the back yard. When
the inspector came, he opened the gate about 2 inches and let it go. If the
gate had not closed and locked, I would have failed the inspection and had
to have that corrected. He also checked to make sure that the three doors
that led from the house to the back yard were alarmed and the alarms were
working. I have not really kept up with the current laws regarding pools so
I could be wrong on this, but I seem to remember that pools must now be
enclosed by fencing with a lockable gate. This is in northern California so
again, make sure you check with state AND LOCAL agencies regarding pool
regulation.

There is also the ongoing expense and care of it. You should probably
figure on somewhere around $100 a month just to keep the filter running, and
the purchase of chemicals. If you have it heated, you can at least double
that. Even with solar heating because the cost of having a solar heater
installed would probably cost $3000-$4000 or more, and those systems need
maintenance too. When I was looking at solar heating for my pool (about 15
years ago), the cost was almost $4000. Depending on the size of your pool,
the filter will have to run for about 4-6 hours a day, every day. For me,
that equates to about $50-$75 on the electric bill every month, and a little
more during the summer season.

Depending on your local water, you must keep it supplied with chlorine,
algaecides, softeners, clarifiers, Ph increaser or Ph decreaser, and other
chemicals. Extremely hard water will need chemicals to keep the minerals in
suspension or else they will start to accumulate on tile, plaster, and the
internals of the plumbing and filter. Some people even recommend taking out
about 1/2 of the water every year at the beginning of the swimming season
and replacing it with fresh water which will definetly show up on your water
bill. I understand that in some areas it is illegal to dump pool water down
the drains because of all of the chemicals.

I don't know where your are located, but if you are in an area with extremes
of weather, winter can lead to cracked tiles, plaster, piping and filter
components and these would have to be repaired. You might have to leave
your filter running 24 hours a day if the temperatures never get above
freezing, or you might have to drain the pool in the winter and refill in
the spring. All expensive. Fortunately for me, I have only had a very few
days where I had to leave the filter running overnight. Our winter weather
is mild and there are only a couple of days a year that go below freezing.

Even with the best automatic systems, you will most likely still have to
spend a couple of hours a week keeping it up. It will probably need to
have the filter cleaned 2 - 3 times a year which is not a hard task, but
gets to be a PITA after a while. It will probably need to be manually swept
down after storms, or at least the leaves and debris cleaned out. Leaving
that in the water will cause other problems.

If you are thinking that whatever you spend for the pool you will be able to
regain upon resale may or may not be correct. You would have to have a
buyer that wanted the pool, and it seems to me that there are fewer and
fewer of those people. To many people a pool is a liability and they would
not be as willing to spend the extra money. This is just a personal
observation and I have no basis in fact to back that up. You should also
speak to local real estate agents about this.

I really enjoy my pool the few times that I use it now. But looking back 18
years later I would not do it again. I'm glad it is there, but it really
isn't worth all the time and expense now. I was in my late 30's when the
pool was put in and now that I am getting older (mid 50's), my priorities
have changed. So have my interests, and hobbies, and career, and just about
everything else except my hair style (and we won't talk about hair color or
amount). Your case may certainly be different, and you may not have the
same opinions that I do.

This brings me back to my initial statement. The single most important
thing you can do is be very patient, and think long and hard about how badly
you really want this pool. DO NOT make a hasty decision. I think you
should probably even wait for a year and see if you still want it badly
enough. Try to imagine what it will be like having it 10 years, or 15 years
down the road (assuming, of course, that you intend to stay in your present
house that long). Try imagining just you and your significant other down
the road. See if any of your friends and neighbors have a pool and get
their opinions. And remember, to have an inground pool removed would be
VERY expensive and would probably cost nearly as much as having it
installed. (Here is another thing I could be wrong about, but I have heard
that it is also illegal to fill your pool with dirt.)

If you decide that you do, indeed, want a pool then by all means go for it.
Many people do not share my opinions and enjoy their pools immensely.

This is just my $.02 and I'm sticking to it until I get a better offer.

Sorry for writing so much,

Wayne



"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
...
We're thinking of having an in ground pool installed, but we know nothing
about them. Can anyone recommend a site or resource that can help a newbie
learn and do research?

BV.

From: "NoOne N Particular"


Not intending to throw water on this subject, but I think the first thing I
would do is make absolutely certain that you want a pool in the first place.
I had one put in about 18 years ago when my kids were still living with us.
It was used quite a bit for the first 2 - 3 years and then the use started
tapering off. Nowadays, it only gets used about a half dozen times during
the hottest days in the summer.

You should also check with local and state agencies regarding laws about
pools. Any licensed pool contractor should also be able to help there.
When I had my pool installed, I did not have to fence in the pool, but I had
to make sure that every door that led into the back yard would either
automatically close and lock, or had an audible alarm on it. For example, I
had a wooden side gate to get from the front yard to the back yard. When
the inspector came, he opened the gate about 2 inches and let it go. If the
gate had not closed and locked, I would have failed the inspection and had
to have that corrected. He also checked to make sure that the three doors
that led from the house to the back yard were alarmed and the alarms were
working. I have not really kept up with the current laws regarding pools so
I could be wrong on this, but I seem to remember that pools must now be
enclosed by fencing with a lockable gate. This is in northern California so
again, make sure you check with state AND LOCAL agencies regarding pool
regulation.

There is also the ongoing expense and care of it. You should probably
figure on somewhere around $100 a month just to keep the filter running, and
the purchase of chemicals. If you have it heated, you can at least double
that. Even with solar heating because the cost of having a solar heater
installed would probably cost $3000-$4000 or more, and those systems need
maintenance too. When I was looking at solar heating for my pool (about 15
years ago), the cost was almost $4000. Depending on the size of your pool,
the filter will have to run for about 4-6 hours a day, every day. For me,
that equates to about $50-$75 on the electric bill every month, and a little
more during the summer season.

Depending on your local water, you must keep it supplied with chlorine,
algaecides, softeners, clarifiers, Ph increaser or Ph decreaser, and other
chemicals. Extremely hard water will need chemicals to keep the minerals in
suspension or else they will start to accumulate on tile, plaster, and the
internals of the plumbing and filter. Some people even recommend taking out
about 1/2 of the water every year at the beginning of the swimming season
and replacing it with fresh water which will definetly show up on your water
bill. I understand that in some areas it is illegal to dump pool water down
the drains because of all of the chemicals.

I don't know where your are located, but if you are in an area with extremes
of weather, winter can lead to cracked tiles, plaster, piping and filter
components and these would have to be repaired. You might have to leave
your filter running 24 hours a day if the temperatures never get above
freezing, or you might have to drain the pool in the winter and refill in
the spring. All expensive. Fortunately for me, I have only had a very few
days where I had to leave the filter running overnight. Our winter weather
is mild and there are only a couple of days a year that go below freezing.

Even with the best automatic systems, you will most likely still have to
spend a couple of hours a week keeping it up. It will probably need to
have the filter cleaned 2 - 3 times a year which is not a hard task, but
gets to be a PITA after a while. It will probably need to be manually swept
down after storms, or at least the leaves and debris cleaned out. Leaving
that in the water will cause other problems.

If you are thinking that whatever you spend for the pool you will be able to
regain upon resale may or may not be correct. You would have to have a
buyer that wanted the pool, and it seems to me that there are fewer and
fewer of those people. To many people a pool is a liability and they would
not be as willing to spend the extra money. This is just a personal
observation and I have no basis in fact to back that up. You should also
speak to local real estate agents about this.

I really enjoy my pool the few times that I use it now. But looking back 18
years later I would not do it again. I'm glad it is there, but it really
isn't worth all the time and expense now. I was in my late 30's when the
pool was put in and now that I am getting older (mid 50's), my priorities
have changed. So have my interests, and hobbies, and career, and just about
everything else except my hair style (and we won't talk about hair color or
amount). Your case may certainly be different, and you may not have the
same opinions that I do.

This brings me back to my initial statement. The single most important
thing you can do is be very patient, and think long and hard about how badly
you really want this pool. DO NOT make a hasty decision. I think you
should probably even wait for a year and see if you still want it badly
enough. Try to imagine what it will be like having it 10 years, or 15 years
down the road (assuming, of course, that you intend to stay in your present
house that long). Try imagining just you and your significant other down
the road. See if any of your friends and neighbors have a pool and get
their opinions. And remember, to have an inground pool removed would be
VERY expensive and would probably cost nearly as much as having it
installed. (Here is another thing I could be wrong about, but I have heard
that it is also illegal to fill your pool with dirt.)

If you decide that you do, indeed, want a pool then by all means go for it.
Many people do not share my opinions and enjoy their pools immensely.

This is just my $.02 and I'm sticking to it until I get a better offer.

Sorry for writing so much,

Wayne



Wayne,

Could you expand on that?



=:-)


"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
...
We're thinking of having an in ground pool installed, but we know nothing
about them. Can anyone recommend a site or resource that can help a newbie
learn and do research?

BV.

According to NoOne N Particular :
Not intending to throw water on this subject,

It's probably a good idea anyway... ;-)

I don't know where your are located, but if you are in an area with extremes
of weather, winter can lead to cracked tiles, plaster, piping and filter
components and these would have to be repaired. You might have to leave
your filter running 24 hours a day if the temperatures never get above
freezing, or you might have to drain the pool in the winter and refill in
the spring. All expensive. Fortunately for me, I have only had a very few
days where I had to leave the filter running overnight. Our winter weather
is mild and there are only a couple of days a year that go below freezing.

Speaking for the great white north, the type of pool makes a big difference.

Our pool has steel walls, contoured sand for the bottom, and finally
a vinyl liner. I'm not sure what this type is called, but they're
quite common these days. They're quite a bit less expensive than
most other types.

The huge advantage of these winterizing. It's simply a matter of
draining the pool below the skimmer/vents (about 18" in our pool),
blowing the lines, pouring a jug of non-toxic antifreeze down the pool
skimmer plumbing, a air bottle "pillow" in the skimmer throat,
and covering the whole mess with a tarp.

Not counting time waiting for the pool to drain sufficiently, it takes
an hour or two (plus time filling the hold down pillows for the tarp).

Ours freezes solid right down to the bottom of the pool, no damage whatsoever.

The steel sides can expand without cracking.

There's at least some ice on the pool from late November/early Dec thru to
as late as late April.

Still on the first liner after 20 years.

Opening up in the summer, however, is a real PITA. First you have to drain
all the water off the tarp (thru the filter into the pool), then you have
to drain some more. Rake leaves out. And more water. Dig out more leaves out.
Etc.

Finally you get to drag the tarp off. Hopefuly without spilling the remaining
frog water into the pool.

[We have a truly massive Maple tree right beside the pool which dumps one
heck of a lot of leaves onto the trap. Along with the rest of the forest
immediately nearby]

Smaller pools and/or rigid covers make it a lot easier.

I wish the previous owner had installed a smaller pool....
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

Benign Vanilla writes:

We're thinking of having an in ground pool installed, but we know
nothing about them. Can anyone recommend a site or resource that can
help a newbie learn and do research?

Before you do learn ANYTHING, decide on some number of dollars per swim
session you would AT MOST be willing to pay. Maybe $1, $5, $25, $100,
whatever, just decide on a figure for what it is worth to you. Also
predict how often you will swim, both now and for as many years into the
future you will be owning this pool. Be as honest and realistic about
actual predicted usage. Report your figures here in this thread. Write
these figures down and save them in the event you go through with the
project. Review them periodically.

Then read my comments on the true cost of owning a swimming pool:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=true+cost+swimming+pool+author:kinch

The economics of this decision may surprise you.

NoOne N Particular writes:

The single most important
thing you can do is be very patient, and think long and hard about how
badly you really want this pool.

Wayne, you have such a reasonable and experienced view of this. I've
tried to post over many years about the true costs and true benefits.
It seems so many are bent on having a pool without knowing really why.

Making a foolish luxury purchase like a car or a boat or RV or pet is
unlike a swimming pool. Let me postulate this law:

You can't sell a used swimming pool.

You can try to sell the property, but you won't recover the pool
expense, because the market prices property based on utility, and the
value of a "pool home" to the market is next to nothing above (or even
below) the same home without a pool. Of course, the wise buyer can
recognize this, and *buy* a used pool for next to nothing, in which case
he *can* "sell" it for about what he paid for it.

A swimming pool has no on-off switch.

It continuously demands care, feeding of costly and noxious "food",
maintenance, and repairs, routinely and occasionally in crisis, whether
you benefit from it a little, a lot, or none at all. You car quits
consuming gasoline when you turn it off. Your pool continues to consume
its tribute whether you put swimmers in it or not.

You cannot put it to sleep when you tire of it or it is too sick, and
you cannot drop it off at the kennel when you go on vacation.

Pools are pretty to look at, if maintained at great expense. Pools are
fun to swim in, if you maintain them at significant expense. If you
think you will maintain your pool without much expense, both amortized
and seasonal, it will become either ugly or unsanitary, or perhaps both.

Nature abhors purity.

That is, nature abhors swimming pools. A swimming pool is all about
purity, which nature abhors (you may have heard, "nature abhors a
vacuum", but the general form is as I say, a vacuum being a special case
of purity, namely, pure nothing). A swimming pool is a most unnatural
thing, a concrete shell of sterile water with a bizarre, unstable
chemistry. Nature will attack it in every way: dust, bacteria, bugs,
oils, sweat, algae, mold, fungus, viruses, urine, feces, metals, amines,
leaves, pollen, earth moving, parts dissolving, crud precipitating,
bonds breaking, clean things staining, structures cracking, pipes
squirting water, pipes sucking air, smooth things getting rough,
bearings sticking, handles breaking, on and on. A swimming pool turns
into a non-swimming pool in a matter of days or hours when you make a
mistake or neglect it. And you will make mistakes, many of them. And
you will neglect it.

The kids will love you for it, though. What is that worth?

Richard J Kinch
Palm Beach County, Florida
http://www.truetex.com/pool.htm
http://www.truetex.com/poolcontrol.htm

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 00:12:56 -0500, Richard J Kinch
wrote:

Keep in mind that these comments may vary somewhat regionally. Not to
decrease the value of Richard's information because it's something you
really do need to consider, here's some variations based on my
locality:

You can try to sell the property, but you won't recover the pool
expense, because the market prices property based on utility, and the
value of a "pool home" to the market is next to nothing above (or even
below) the same home without a pool. Of course, the wise buyer can
recognize this, and *buy* a used pool for next to nothing, in which case
he *can* "sell" it for about what he paid for it.

Locally in many neighborhoods, lack of a pool will decrease both the
selling price of a home and its attractiveness to buyers. These are
neighborhoods where a pool is a standard item expected by most buyers.
Your neighborhood likely isn't one of them (you wouldn't be posting
here, you'd be looking out your kithen window at your pool).

Pools are pretty to look at, if maintained at great expense. Pools are
fun to swim in, if you maintain them at significant expense. If you
think you will maintain your pool without much expense, both amortized
and seasonal, it will become either ugly or unsanitary, or perhaps both.

Locally, pool services are fairly inexpensive, average pools would be
around $100 a month including chemistry. No work on your part, just
cost. Even when you're on vacation. Normal repairs might run another
couple hundred, or about $1,500 a year total. Not inexpensive, but
lawn service will cost as much, and you can't keep a decent boat for
that low an expense, so things are relative.

You also need to consider location for swimming ability as well. Here
in SW Florida (or in Richard's Palm Beach area) a pool is a year-round
item. If you're limited to four or five month seasons, the utility
diminishes greatly.

All that said, I don't own a pool. I have access to several
commercial pools within easy distance, and two private ones, plus the
Gulf of Mexico and one of the finest beaches in the country is in
walking distance. I rarely use any of them.

On the other hand, families with children are more likely to use a
pool, so your family may have a lot of influence on your decision.

Jeff

First, congratulations.

Now the real stuff:

Make sure you know what you are getting into. Talk to others who have pools
and not just about how nice they are on hot days. You want to be ready,
willing and able to take care of it unless you plan to have every aspect of
your pool hired out including the chemical and cleaning.

A pool is work, and it can get expensive. All those thousands of gallons of
water don't clean themself, you have to do it from sweeping the walls and
floors to vacuuming, to skimming leaves and other debris that the skimmers
don't catch to testing daily, sometimes twice for chemical balance and then
adding just the right amount of each.

You will also have homeowners insurance issues to deal with. Your insurance
will either go up, or they will hit you with a rider of non-coverage for the
pool and anything that happens to it, or because of it. If you plan on
having a diving board and/or slide, you can expect even higher insurance
premiums. You have to have fencing, gates, locks, and don't forget a
locking pool house for all of your chemicals and equipment. The chemical
you use are more dangerous out of the pool than in, such as Muratic Acid,
Liquid Chlorine (if you decide to use it) Chlorine Tablets - all of it is
quite caustic, and quite poisonous.

Should you decide to cage your pool (put a screen building over it), and it
would be recommended if the area you are putting your pool in has a habit of
gathering falling leaves or other natural debris, then you can expect your
building expenses, as well as your insurance coverage to increase yet again.

Yes, a pool adds value to your home, but not as much as you might think. I
have an extremely large pool for my area, the largest one in fact but simply
because I bought my home from a guy who owned his own pool building company
and he built himself a bitch of a pool! On average, it costs me about
250-300.00 a month to maintain it from chemical to water bills to electric
bills to run the pumps. During the hot summer and higher evaporation days,
those costs are higher.

If you have kids who will be using the pool, your costs will double and time
as well in cleaning, supplies, and repairing all the **** they WILL break.

If I had my choice, I would not have a pool, even though I use it, but if it
wasn't there I wouldn't miss it nor would I miss all the work. The least
expensive pool cleaning contract I can find for my size pool is 135.00 per
week for 2X week maintenance, and they still don't do half the stuff I do to
keep it clean. I think it's priced high because no one wants to mess with a
pool this size, it takes too much time and they could do six other pools in
the time it takes to do mine. My pool is surrounded by Areca Palms for
privacy, and it is not caged because of the size no one wants to warranty a
roof with that large of span and not guarantee that it won't fall in.

Obviously, you're not jumping in blind since you're asking questions - good
luck with whatever you decide.

My monster: http://www.martweb.net/WNP/p1.jpg at 44.5 ft long by 22.5 ft
wide




"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
...
We're thinking of having an in ground pool installed, but we know nothing
about them. Can anyone recommend a site or resource that can help a newbie
learn and do research?

BV.

"Greg" wrote in message
...
I am acting as the contractor. I subbed out the dig, steel and shoot.
(~$6000)
I have a "dirt guy" who hauled away the dirt and backfilled the hole for
the
value of the dirt.
I did the plumbing and electric and I have a plaster guy coming to apply
the
interior finish (~$2000).
I have another two - three thousand in hardware, concrete and "home depot"
type
bills.
The most expensive thing is the screen cage (~$8500) but you may not be
doing
that.

If I stay on schedule I will be from permit to water in the pool in 32
days
(started 5/26) but that is an unusually fast install. So far all of my
subs
have been on time and on schedule. That is unusual too.

I don't have the skill nor the patience to act as my own prime. I am just
trying to learn the basics so I can be educated when I talk with a
contractor.

BV.

"NoOne N Particular" wrote in message
m...
Not intending to throw water on this subject, but I think the first thing
I
would do is make absolutely certain that you want a pool in the first
place.
I had one put in about 18 years ago when my kids were still living with
us.
It was used quite a bit for the first 2 - 3 years and then the use started
tapering off. Nowadays, it only gets used about a half dozen times
during
the hottest days in the summer.

We have had numerous disposables over the years, including our current
Walmart 13 foot above the ground special. The kids love it, and I must admit
after a long day it's fun to get in there and splash around with the little
tikes. They also have 15-20 friends in the neighbor, not to mention school
mates. They also have 8 cousins in the imediate area, so I think usage will
not be an issue. We do a lot of entertaining, so I think the adult usage
will be up there as well. We plan to stay in this house until death do us
part, so we're in it for the long term.

You should also check with local and state agencies regarding laws about
pools.

Still researching this.

There is also the ongoing expense and care of it. You should probably
figure on somewhere around $100 a month just to keep the filter running,
and
the purchase of chemicals.

That's a good point, and one we understand.

If you have it heated, you can at least double
that.

We're considering a gas heater, with the potential for a solar add on later,
but those are luxury items, and not really part of the equation now.

I don't know where your are located, but if you are in an area with
extremes
of weather, winter can lead to cracked tiles, plaster, piping and filter
components and these would have to be repaired.

This is a key area of concern for me. I don't know if I should go with
concrete, vinyl, fiberglass. We do live in a hard freeze area, Baltimore
proper, so I am worried about concrete.

Even with the best automatic systems, you will most likely still have to
spend a couple of hours a week keeping it up. It will probably need to
have the filter cleaned 2 - 3 times a year which is not a hard task, but
gets to be a PITA after a while. It will probably need to be manually
swept
down after storms, or at least the leaves and debris cleaned out. Leaving
that in the water will cause other problems.

This will be my job for sure. I am not too threatened by this. I have to
clean the Walmart special constantly, since it has no skimmer, no bottom
drain, and no filter strong enough to vacumm with.

If you are thinking that whatever you spend for the pool you will be able
to
regain upon resale may or may not be correct. You would have to have a
buyer that wanted the pool, and it seems to me that there are fewer and
fewer of those people. To many people a pool is a liability and they
would
not be as willing to spend the extra money. This is just a personal
observation and I have no basis in fact to back that up. You should also
speak to local real estate agents about this.

We're here until death. It'll be the kids problem to sell it. Muhahahaha.

I really enjoy my pool the few times that I use it now. But looking back
18
years later I would not do it again. I'm glad it is there, but it really
isn't worth all the time and expense now. I was in my late 30's when the
pool was put in and now that I am getting older (mid 50's), my priorities
have changed. So have my interests, and hobbies, and career, and just
about
everything else except my hair style (and we won't talk about hair color
or
amount). Your case may certainly be different, and you may not have the
same opinions that I do.

We are very "out in the backyard" people. I can easily see myself in this
thing forever.

This brings me back to my initial statement. The single most important
thing you can do is be very patient, and think long and hard about how
badly
you really want this pool. DO NOT make a hasty decision. I think you
should probably even wait for a year and see if you still want it badly
enough.

We've been pushing the idea around forever. Since we bought the house 5
years ago. The only plan change has been from above ground to in ground. My
wife really likes inground pools.

If you decide that you do, indeed, want a pool then by all means go for
it.
Many people do not share my opinions and enjoy their pools immensely.

This is just my $.02 and I'm sticking to it until I get a better offer.
snip

Well done. Thanks for your thoughts.

BV.

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
.. .
Benign Vanilla writes:

We're thinking of having an in ground pool installed, but we know
nothing about them. Can anyone recommend a site or resource that can
help a newbie learn and do research?

Before you do learn ANYTHING, decide on some number of dollars per swim
session you would AT MOST be willing to pay. Maybe $1, $5, $25, $100,
whatever, just decide on a figure for what it is worth to you. Also
predict how often you will swim, both now and for as many years into the
future you will be owning this pool. Be as honest and realistic about
actual predicted usage. Report your figures here in this thread. Write
these figures down and save them in the event you go through with the
project. Review them periodically.

To get a pool pass to the local pool costs $600.00 per season. My wife stays
home with the two kids, and often has numerous cousins, friends, family,
etc. over for play dates, etc. Our neighborhood is one where if you are
sitting on your deck, you expect company because people just show up. There
is no doubt in my mind that a pool would be used like crazy.

Then read my comments on the true cost of owning a swimming pool:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=true+cost+swimming+pool+author:kinch

The economics of this decision may surprise you.

I'll go read now...

BV.

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
.. .
snip
Then read my comments on the true cost of owning a swimming pool:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=true+cost+swimming+pool+author:kinch

I checked out your post, and enjoyed your anal-retentive analysis. And don't
get me wrong, that was a compliment. I could very easily have seen myself do
those exact calculations in the next few weeks. And I'll probably have a
spreadsheet to prove it. Anyway, You break the costs down by session, but do
you factor in number of people? That changes the numbers dramatically. Me
using the pool once a week is a very different usage pattern, then my wife
and kids in the pool during the day, maybe with friends, and then my wife
and I using it at night. Etc.

Like I said in an earlier post. We're backyard people. We are always
BBQ'ing, entertaining, etc. The cost per usage will be low in my estimation.

BV.

"Lost-In-Translation" wrote in
message link.net...
First, congratulations.

Now the real stuff:

Make sure you know what you are getting into. Talk to others who have
pools
and not just about how nice they are on hot days. You want to be ready,
willing and able to take care of it unless you plan to have every aspect
of
your pool hired out including the chemical and cleaning.
snip

The maintenance issue doesn't concern me too much. I can handle it. When I
was a kid I took care of my parent's above ground pool, and my neighbor's in
ground which is about the size of yours. I did both, and was able to do it
as a kid, so I bet I can do it now.

I am mostly concerned with two things is above or below the ground better,
and if in the ground what material is best?

My monster: http://www.martweb.net/WNP/p1.jpg at 44.5 ft long by 22.5
ft
wide
snip

Beautiful.

BV.

"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
...

We have had numerous disposables over the years, including our current
Walmart 13 foot above the ground special. The kids love it, and I must
admit
after a long day it's fun to get in there and splash around with the
little
tikes. They also have 15-20 friends in the neighbor, not to mention school
mates. They also have 8 cousins in the imediate area, so I think usage
will
not be an issue.

BINGO! Therein lies your MAJOR problem. If any of those kids gets hurt,
drowns, falls on the deck and cracks a bone, you name it - you WILL loose
your homeowners insurance, and you can bet the parents of those little tykes
will sue your ass off. You may think they are all nice and ok now, but just
wait until something happens to one of their little demon seeds on YOUR
property.




We do a lot of entertaining, so I think the adult usage
will be up there as well. We plan to stay in this house until death do us
part, so we're in it for the long term.

Remember, just like the beach, pools and alcohol don't mix. New pool owners
are guaranteed one thing - spot inspections by insurance adjusters. Trust
me, if they show up and find your pool filled with neighborhood kiddies -
your insurance will either triple, or go bye-bye.

I'm not trying to **** in your pool so to speak, just letting you know from
experience and study what does, can, and will happen.

As to material, if you are going in-ground for the long haul, then
concrete/marsite with diamond brite finish for sure. Others may disagree,
but I've been happy with mine so it's what I recommend.






You should also check with local and state agencies regarding laws about
pools.

Still researching this.

There is also the ongoing expense and care of it. You should probably
figure on somewhere around $100 a month just to keep the filter running,
and
the purchase of chemicals.

That's a good point, and one we understand.

If you have it heated, you can at least double
that.

We're considering a gas heater, with the potential for a solar add on
later,
but those are luxury items, and not really part of the equation now.

I don't know where your are located, but if you are in an area with
extremes
of weather, winter can lead to cracked tiles, plaster, piping and filter
components and these would have to be repaired.

This is a key area of concern for me. I don't know if I should go with
concrete, vinyl, fiberglass. We do live in a hard freeze area, Baltimore
proper, so I am worried about concrete.

Even with the best automatic systems, you will most likely still have to
spend a couple of hours a week keeping it up. It will probably need to
have the filter cleaned 2 - 3 times a year which is not a hard task, but
gets to be a PITA after a while. It will probably need to be manually
swept
down after storms, or at least the leaves and debris cleaned out.
Leaving
that in the water will cause other problems.

This will be my job for sure. I am not too threatened by this. I have to
clean the Walmart special constantly, since it has no skimmer, no bottom
drain, and no filter strong enough to vacumm with.

If you are thinking that whatever you spend for the pool you will be
able
to
regain upon resale may or may not be correct. You would have to have a
buyer that wanted the pool, and it seems to me that there are fewer and
fewer of those people. To many people a pool is a liability and they
would
not be as willing to spend the extra money. This is just a personal
observation and I have no basis in fact to back that up. You should
also
speak to local real estate agents about this.

We're here until death. It'll be the kids problem to sell it. Muhahahaha.

I really enjoy my pool the few times that I use it now. But looking
back
18
years later I would not do it again. I'm glad it is there, but it
really
isn't worth all the time and expense now. I was in my late 30's when
the
pool was put in and now that I am getting older (mid 50's), my
priorities
have changed. So have my interests, and hobbies, and career, and just
about
everything else except my hair style (and we won't talk about hair color
or
amount). Your case may certainly be different, and you may not have the
same opinions that I do.

We are very "out in the backyard" people. I can easily see myself in this
thing forever.

This brings me back to my initial statement. The single most important
thing you can do is be very patient, and think long and hard about how
badly
you really want this pool. DO NOT make a hasty decision. I think you
should probably even wait for a year and see if you still want it badly
enough.

We've been pushing the idea around forever. Since we bought the house 5
years ago. The only plan change has been from above ground to in ground.
My
wife really likes inground pools.

If you decide that you do, indeed, want a pool then by all means go for
it.
Many people do not share my opinions and enjoy their pools immensely.

This is just my $.02 and I'm sticking to it until I get a better offer.
snip

Well done. Thanks for your thoughts.

BV.

It may take a while though to find that certain buyer who wants the
maintenance of a pool added to their list of to dos. Realtors tell me they
add nothing to the price of homes. With three kids under 6 I know we would
never look at a house with a pool. We have enough trouble making sure they
don't get out of the house without us knowing. They are extremely
adventurous and a pool would be too much for them to handle. lol
"Linda" wrote in message
...


http://www.martweb.net/WNP/p1.jpg at 44.5 ft long by 22.5

Thats a gorgeous pool .......
My pool is my most prized possession.
I wouldn't think of buying a home without one or immediately building
one at closing. Ours cost $25K to build and if we ever sell our home
that 25K will easily be recovered. Our pool, pool house, cement decking
and double deck over looking pool make our back yeard. Who needs
vacations? Linda

http://www.martweb.net/WNP/p1.jpg at 44.5 ft long by 22.5

Thats a gorgeous pool .......
My pool is my most prized possession.
I wouldn't think of buying a home without one or immediately building
one at closing. Ours cost $25K to build and if we ever sell our home
that 25K will easily be recovered. Our pool, pool house, cement decking
and double deck over looking pool make our back yeard. Who needs
vacations? Linda

OK. It sounds like you HAVE been thinking about this long and hard, and
when all of my writing was done, that is all I was really saying because an
inground pool is one of the few things that you buy that cannot be
"unbought". The only way to get rid of it is to sell the house.

You talked about your above ground pools, and I thought about mentioning
that and forgot it. For a couple of hundred dollars you get a clearer idea
if it was something that you wanted to pursue. If it turned out that you
decided against an inground you would have saved yourself thousands of
dollars. If you still wanted to pursue it then all you would have lost is a
little time, a little work, and a couple of hundred dollars. By the time
you get an inground, a couple of hundred dollars is a nit.

A friend of mine gave me a way to tell when you are ready to buy a boat. I
think the same thing holds true for buying an inground pool. Here is what
you do:
Every Monday morning, go into the bathroom and flush a $100 dollar bill down
the toilet. When you get to the point that doing this doesn't bother you
any more, then you are ready. :-)

It sounds like you will be very happy with your pool. The next thing you
may have to decide on is what shape and contour? If I had to do it over
again, I think I would have selected a rectangualr shaped pool. It would
have been something like 3' deep at both ends and 4' across the middle (
might massage the depths a little). This shape would make for a great game
pool where you can have lots of people playing pool games, and all of them
will have more or less equal footing. It would also be good for just
swimming laps and other exercises. There wouldn't be any diving, but a
great many serious accidents happen when diving into a small home sized
pool.

A rectangular pool would also allow you to take better advantage of
automated covers if you were so inclined. Just push a button and the pool
is covered. Sweet! Pool sweeps would not have to be going around any odd
contours and would probably be more efficient. In any case, automate as
much as you can. Or maybe automate as much as is practical.

The only other comment is to select your contractor well. Check references
and see if you can get to see some of their other pools that they have done.
If they have done a lot of pools, they would also be a great source of
information.

Enjoy,

Wayne

major snipping

My brother bought a house with a pool about two years ago. They didn't want
the hassle so they found a way to get rid of it. I think it took 10 trucks
filled with sand and dirt.
"NoOne N Particular" wrote in message
. com...
OK. It sounds like you HAVE been thinking about this long and hard, and
when all of my writing was done, that is all I was really saying because
an
inground pool is one of the few things that you buy that cannot be
"unbought". The only way to get rid of it is to sell the house.

You talked about your above ground pools, and I thought about mentioning
that and forgot it. For a couple of hundred dollars you get a clearer
idea
if it was something that you wanted to pursue. If it turned out that you
decided against an inground you would have saved yourself thousands of
dollars. If you still wanted to pursue it then all you would have lost is
a
little time, a little work, and a couple of hundred dollars. By the time
you get an inground, a couple of hundred dollars is a nit.

A friend of mine gave me a way to tell when you are ready to buy a boat.
I
think the same thing holds true for buying an inground pool. Here is what
you do:
Every Monday morning, go into the bathroom and flush a $100 dollar bill
down
the toilet. When you get to the point that doing this doesn't bother you
any more, then you are ready. :-)

It sounds like you will be very happy with your pool. The next thing you
may have to decide on is what shape and contour? If I had to do it over
again, I think I would have selected a rectangualr shaped pool. It would
have been something like 3' deep at both ends and 4' across the middle (
might massage the depths a little). This shape would make for a great
game
pool where you can have lots of people playing pool games, and all of them
will have more or less equal footing. It would also be good for just
swimming laps and other exercises. There wouldn't be any diving, but a
great many serious accidents happen when diving into a small home sized
pool.

A rectangular pool would also allow you to take better advantage of
automated covers if you were so inclined. Just push a button and the pool
is covered. Sweet! Pool sweeps would not have to be going around any odd
contours and would probably be more efficient. In any case, automate as
much as you can. Or maybe automate as much as is practical.

The only other comment is to select your contractor well. Check
references
and see if you can get to see some of their other pools that they have
done.
If they have done a lot of pools, they would also be a great source of
information.

Enjoy,

Wayne

major snipping