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2 x 4's the old ones



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 19th 17, 11:40 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default 2 x 4's the old ones

Most of the houses in my neighborhood were built in the late 19th or
early 20th century.


Recently someone totally rebuilt a house near here, they stripped it
down to the 2 x 4's and rebuilt...they even put in a new foundation.

At first I wondered why they did not raze it entirely until I realized
the old style 2 x 4's are superior to the ones used today.

They actually measure 2" x 4" and use better wood that today's soft pine.

My question is: what kind of wood was actually used.

It's denser than soft pine but not actual hardwood, though it is
sometimes referred to as such.
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  #2  
Old March 19th 17, 11:54 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 573
Default 2 x 4's the old ones

On Sunday, March 19, 2017 at 7:40:52 AM UTC-4, philo wrote:
Most of the houses in my neighborhood were built in the late 19th or
early 20th century.


Recently someone totally rebuilt a house near here, they stripped it
down to the 2 x 4's and rebuilt...they even put in a new foundation.

At first I wondered why they did not raze it entirely until I realized
the old style 2 x 4's are superior to the ones used today.

They actually measure 2" x 4" and use better wood that today's soft pine.

My question is: what kind of wood was actually used.

It's denser than soft pine but not actual hardwood, though it is
sometimes referred to as such.


The framing in my house (built in 1948) is white cedar. Smells like
sharpening pencils when you cut it.

Cindy Hamilton
  #3  
Old March 19th 17, 12:12 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 2,017
Default 2 x 4's the old ones

On 03/19/2017 06:54 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Sunday, March 19, 2017 at 7:40:52 AM UTC-4, philo wrote:
Most of the houses in my neighborhood were built in the late 19th or
early 20th century.


Recently someone totally rebuilt a house near here, they stripped it
down to the 2 x 4's and rebuilt...they even put in a new foundation.

At first I wondered why they did not raze it entirely until I realized
the old style 2 x 4's are superior to the ones used today.

They actually measure 2" x 4" and use better wood that today's soft pine.

My question is: what kind of wood was actually used.

It's denser than soft pine but not actual hardwood, though it is
sometimes referred to as such.


The framing in my house (built in 1948) is white cedar. Smells like
sharpening pencils when you cut it.

Cindy Hamilton



My grandparents had their house built in 1948 also.
I believe the end of the war housing boom was when the builders started
using the lower grade soft pine.

I recall my grandmother telling me the builder used the better grade
lumber because all the soft pine in the area was already snapped up by
other builders.


My house was built in 1898 and will probably be around for a while...

I am living at a time where I actually see buildings less than 50 years
old being demolished.
  #4  
Old March 19th 17, 12:53 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 17,344
Default 2 x 4's the old ones

On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 06:40:44 -0500, philo wrote:

Most of the houses in my neighborhood were built in the late 19th or
early 20th century.


Recently someone totally rebuilt a house near here, they stripped it
down to the 2 x 4's and rebuilt...they even put in a new foundation.

At first I wondered why they did not raze it entirely until I realized
the old style 2 x 4's are superior to the ones used today.

They actually measure 2" x 4" and use better wood that today's soft pine.

My question is: what kind of wood was actually used.

It's denser than soft pine but not actual hardwood, though it is
sometimes referred to as such.

Many were built using "local lumber".Others used Douglas Fir or old
growth white pine, or even old growth spruce.
The "local lumber" could be anything from jack pine to white cedar to
elm, maple, chestnut ash, or Gumwood.. Some of the wood used for
framing back then would be good for high end trim today!!
My shed is all "mixed hardwood", some of it 2 1/2 X 4 - originally
used as pallets for sheet metal
  #5  
Old March 19th 17, 12:59 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 1
Default 2 x 4's the old ones

On 03/19/2017 08:12 AM, philo wrote:
My grandparents had their house built in 1948 also.
I believe the end of the war housing boom was when the builders
started using the lower grade soft pine.

I recall my grandmother telling me the builder used the better grade
lumber because all the soft pine in the area was already snapped up by
other builders.


My house was built in 1898 and will probably be around for a while...

I am living at a time where I actually see buildings less than 50
years old being demolished.



Ever notice free government public housing for welfare democrats lasts
less than 30 years before it's demolished?

OTOH, republican taxpayer farmers will take care of their homes and pass
them on for many generations.

  #6  
Old March 19th 17, 01:25 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 2,017
Default 2 x 4's the old ones

On 03/19/2017 07:59 AM, Oliver Douglas wrote:

snip

Ever notice free government public housing for welfare democrats lasts
less than 30 years before it's demolished?

OTOH, republican taxpayer farmers will take care of their homes and pass
them on for many generations.



LOL you sure got that exactly WRONG, the three examples I was thinking
of when I posted we

1) Allen Bradly was a large local electronics firm that is now owned by
Rockwell. The very generous Allen Bradly family donated millions of
dollars to build a sports center, 35 years ago.

It mainly caters to the wealthy suburbanites just outside of Milwaukee
County. (The sports center is in downtown Milwaukee)

It has now been decided that it's too old and a new one is being
constructed and paid for by the taxpayers of Milwaukee. A special
freeway ramp is even being built so the wealthy suburbanites can come
into the city, watch their game and head back out to the suburbs.
If anyone else would even think of having an event in downtown Milwaukee
on the same night as a sports event, forget it.
Parking which is normally $10 for 24 hours is now up to $70!!!

The 35 year old sports center will then be demolished


2) In the mid 60's, my uncle who was a wealthy businessman had a
beautiful house built . It's reminiscent of a design by Frank LLoyd
Wright or Eero Saarinen . When my uncle died my aunt sold the house and
later learned the new owner only wanted the land, the house was
demolished and replaced by a McMansion.

Beautiful 50 year old house demolished


3) Of the same vintage (approx 50 years old) is the Milwaukee Museum,
considered one of the best in the country. Now it's not good enough,
supposedly the storage are is too leaky. The city is going to build a
new one...cost the the taxpayers $100 million.



  #8  
Old March 19th 17, 01:50 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 673
Default 2 x 4's the old ones

On 3/19/17 7:59 AM, Oliver Douglas wrote:

Ever notice free government public housing for welfare democrats lasts
less than 30 years before it's demolished?



OTOH, republican taxpayer farmers will take care of their homes and pass
them on for many generations.


The federal government has had subsidy programs for farmers
going back to the 1930s. The story I've been told is the feds wanted
to keep the farmers down on the farm
to avoid having them in the cities competing for jobs during the
Depression.
https://www.fsa.usda.gov/about-fsa/structure-and-organization/commodity-credit-corporation/index
The programs used to involve the farmer idling some ground in return
for the government help. The requirement to idle ground was eliminated
with the Freedom to Farm Act passed in the later 1990s.
I haven't seen any farmers walking on water. Some of the places
are immaculate considering the environment. Others are dumps, with
junk and weeds everywhere.
I've been on or around farms for six decades and have indirectly
benefited from the
government programs. My livelihood still depends on farmers.
The first house I grew up in used some of the old, real 2x4s.
The builders didn't waste anything. They nailed one 2x4 to another one
if the first one was too short.
The walls mostly plaster. One room had some softer material that I
forget the name of.



  #9  
Old March 19th 17, 01:53 PM posted to alt.home.repair
dpb
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Posts: 12,408
Default 2 x 4's the old ones

On 03/19/2017 8:27 AM, philo wrote:
....

They actually measure 2" x 4" and use better wood that today's soft
pine.

My question is: what kind of wood was actually used.

It's denser than soft pine but not actual hardwood, though it is
sometimes referred to as such.

Many were built using "local lumber".Others used Douglas Fir or old
growth white pine, or even old growth spruce.
The "local lumber" could be anything from jack pine to white cedar to
elm, maple, chestnut ash, or Gumwood.. Some of the wood used for
framing back then would be good for high end trim today!!
My shed is all "mixed hardwood", some of it 2 1/2 X 4 - originally
used as pallets for sheet metal




Thanks for the good answer. I know the old wood has a lot of value.


Depends greatly on location as the above implies; much framing lumber
even as early as before/around WW I was SYP except it was first-cut
rather than "plantation-grown" as is most all today. As such it has a
much finer grain pattern and typically is also from much larger logs so
has a higher percentage of heartwood vis a vis sapwood.

There was no native lumber out here on the High Plains; the barn and
house were built in early '10s to about 1920 when rationing after WW I
was lifted. They're all SYP, also full dimension, and there are
built-up columns in the loft of the barn of 3 2x6 that are 24-ft in
length. I've looked at some of them carefully while we were doing the
repair/restoration/re-roof and there are a few that appear to be
knot-free over that entire length...

We built a set of bins in the loft in the late '50s for a small feed
mill, the framing lumber for it came from west coast instead of east and
is Doug fir. There are some leftover 2x12-20 still stacked up there
that are also clear; I've no idea what one of them might cost today! I
haven't yet found a project that justifies cutting one of them. since
I've been back... They're the 5/8"-over era instead of full
dimension before the pare-back to the current 1/2". Nice for the extra
"beef" for strength but a pita for matching up for doubling up as you've
got an extra eighth or quarter-inch to make up, depending...

But, the general tenor is true; the quality of framing lumber these days
is far inferior and it is mostly owing simply to there no longer being
the virgin timber stands to harvest and so it comes from mostly
faster-growing species and plantation-grown stands that simply don't
produce the same wood properties.

  #10  
Old March 19th 17, 02:27 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 4
Default 2 x 4's the old ones

On 03/19/2017 09:25 AM, philo wrote:
LOL you sure got that exactly WRONG, the three examples I was thinking
of when I posted we

1) Allen Bradly was a large local electronics firm that is now owned
by Rockwell. The very generous Allen Bradly family donated millions of
dollars to build a sports center, 35 years ago.

It mainly caters to the wealthy suburbanites just outside of Milwaukee
County. (The sports center is in downtown Milwaukee)

It has now been decided that it's too old and a new one is being
constructed and paid for by the taxpayers of Milwaukee. A special
freeway ramp is even being built so the wealthy suburbanites can come
into the city, watch their game and head back out to the suburbs.
If anyone else would even think of having an event in downtown
Milwaukee on the same night as a sports event, forget it.
Parking which is normally $10 for 24 hours is now up to $70!!!


There's often a lot of intolerant democrats at public sporting events.
Intolerant democrats often riot when things don't go their way. Raising
the price of admission often keeps the intolerant democrats out.


The 35 year old sports center will then be demolished


2) In the mid 60's, my uncle who was a wealthy businessman had a
beautiful house built . It's reminiscent of a design by Frank LLoyd
Wright or Eero Saarinen . When my uncle died my aunt sold the house
and later learned the new owner only wanted the land, the house was
demolished and replaced by a McMansion.

Beautiful 50 year old house demolished


You just unwittingly made my point. Your aunt's privately owned house
was in excellent condition when she sold it. The new owner obviously
didn't like the style but liked the neighborhood. No tax dollars involved.



3) Of the same vintage (approx 50 years old) is the Milwaukee Museum,
considered one of the best in the country. Now it's not good enough,
supposedly the storage are is too leaky. The city is going to build a
new one...cost the the taxpayers $100 million.



Preserving history is important. If the museum has valuable pieces, they
need a secure and dry building. Hopefully the new museum will be
fireproof in case some intolerant welfare democrats decide to protest
and burn the neighborhood down.


 




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