We're purchasing a new home and looking into putting new flooring in. I
plan to use a finished room in the basement as an office, and want to
put in a 'hardwood' laminate floor. The problem is, the concrete in the
basement in *extremely* uneven. I don't know a specific depth since I
haven't pulled up the carpet that's current covering it, but I would
guess some of the worst parts vary by maybe 1" over a 2' area.
Positively wavy.

I've seen that Quikrete has a self-leveling floor resurfacer, but I
don't know if it will work to that magnitude (possibly with several
stages?). I also haven't found any indication as to how much might be
needed for a given area -- or where to get it, or how costly it is.
What kind of equipment is needed for this job? I've read that a power
mixer, or a mixer tool on a power drill, is needed, as well as some tubs
and cleaning agents. But I've also seen pictures of people using some
kind of tubing/hose to pour the mixture. Is this necessary?
Fortunately, the quikrete stuff allegedly does not need any trowling.

How difficult would a resurfacing project like this be? I'm new to
flooring AND to concrete.

And finally, will the fact that this is an interior surface alter the
estimated drying times? The room can be vented through a door into the
garage. What about fumes?

Much appreciated!
-david

According to D K Woods :
How difficult would a resurfacing project like this be? I'm new to
flooring AND to concrete.

I've fortunately not had to do anything like this, but I've heard some
of the stories...

Perhaps the first thing you need to do is identify how much of a job
this will be to do _right_, this is how you find out what magnitude
of problem you're dealing with.

"Solutions" range all the way from just bridging an occasional dip
with subflooring (ie: plywood sheet), all the way to laying and
leveling a few inches of new concrete over the whole floor.

[Both my family and my inlaws have been thru the "pour a new floor"
version. They needed it...]

Even _with_ seeing your floor, I'd probably not be a good source
for recommending the right solution. How widespread is the problem?
Is the floor generally flat with occasional dips/ripples, or,
completely unflat (ie: different slopes thruout the floor)?

This is where I think it'd be a good idea to call in several
professionals, each with different "solutions styles", get estimates,
and find the best fit.

You're probably looking at several days for curing. Likely weeks
(or even months) before covering with wood flooring over fresh concrete.

The fumes are unlikely to be a big deal (concrete "fumes" are just water
evaporation...), as long as you have active ventilation.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

basement in *extremely* uneven. I don't know a specific depth since I
haven't pulled up the carpet that's current covering it, but I would
guess some of the worst parts vary by maybe 1" over a 2' area.
......
How difficult would a resurfacing project like this be? I'm new to
flooring AND to concrete.

It's going to be a pain in the ass, no matter what you do.
How much headroom do you have to play with? The easiest/cheapest
solutions (well, after just sucking it up and living with
a bumpy floor, which wouldn't hurt you any) generally involve
piling more stuff on until the floor is level, but if the ceiling is
already at the 6'8" line, you'd be better off pounding the existing
floor out, and pouring a new slab. What sort of dampness/water
issues do you expect to have, how cold is the floor, and do
any sections of the floor move with the seasons?

And finally, will the fact that this is an interior surface alter the
estimated drying times? The room can be vented through a door into the
garage. What about fumes?

For concrete, it doesn't matter; it doesn't actually dry the
way you normally think of drying, the water chemically combines,
and it doesn't produce any fumes worth worrying about in
this context.

-Goedjn

You might want to consult with a tile store. They have to deal with
leveling uneven floors all the time.
MLD
"D K Woods" wrote in message
...
We're purchasing a new home and looking into putting new flooring in. I
plan to use a finished room in the basement as an office, and want to
put in a 'hardwood' laminate floor. The problem is, the concrete in the
basement in *extremely* uneven. I don't know a specific depth since I
haven't pulled up the carpet that's current covering it, but I would
guess some of the worst parts vary by maybe 1" over a 2' area.
Positively wavy.

I've seen that Quikrete has a self-leveling floor resurfacer, but I
don't know if it will work to that magnitude (possibly with several
stages?). I also haven't found any indication as to how much might be
needed for a given area -- or where to get it, or how costly it is.
What kind of equipment is needed for this job? I've read that a power
mixer, or a mixer tool on a power drill, is needed, as well as some tubs
and cleaning agents. But I've also seen pictures of people using some
kind of tubing/hose to pour the mixture. Is this necessary?
Fortunately, the quikrete stuff allegedly does not need any trowling.

How difficult would a resurfacing project like this be? I'm new to
flooring AND to concrete.

And finally, will the fact that this is an interior surface alter the
estimated drying times? The room can be vented through a door into the
garage. What about fumes?

Much appreciated!
-david

D K Woods wrote:
We're purchasing a new home and looking into putting new flooring in. I
plan to use a finished room in the basement as an office, and want to
put in a 'hardwood' laminate floor. The problem is, the concrete in the
basement in *extremely* uneven. I don't know a specific depth since I
haven't pulled up the carpet that's current covering it, but I would
guess some of the worst parts vary by maybe 1" over a 2' area.
Positively wavy.

I've seen that Quikrete has a self-leveling floor resurfacer, but I
don't know if it will work to that magnitude (possibly with several
stages?).

Deeper is usually easier with topping mix. The self-leveling ought to
work like that as well tho you're going to pay out big bucks.

I also haven't found any indication as to how much might be
needed for a given area -- or where to get it, or how costly it is.
What kind of equipment is needed for this job? I've read that a power
mixer, or a mixer tool on a power drill, is needed, as well as some tubs
and cleaning agents. But I've also seen pictures of people using some
kind of tubing/hose to pour the mixture. Is this necessary?
Fortunately, the quikrete stuff allegedly does not need any trowling.

How difficult would a resurfacing project like this be? I'm new to
flooring AND to concrete.

You'll be working with an expensive product, doing a job you're unfamiliar
with: Does this sound like a recipe for instant success?

And finally, will the fact that this is an interior surface alter the
estimated drying times? The room can be vented through a door into the
garage. What about fumes?

You can continue along the lines you're thinking about and it may well
work fine for you, but since you're planning to put down a laminate floor,
I've heard of folks who have had success throwing down a vapor barrier
(which you're going to want any way) and then a layer of plywood, shiming
the plywood up to level with a selection of custom sliced sleepers. A
selection of Two-By lumber and furring strips, some scribing tools, a
jigsaw and belt sander ought to get you what you need. Lay the plywood
"floor" so that it touches the concrete only at the higest spot and then
the sleepers support the plywood over the lowspots. Construction adhesive
on top of the sleeprs should keep them from wandering off. Then lay your
laminate floor on that.

Much appreciated!

Free advice: worth every penny.



John
--
Remove the dead poet to e-mail, tho CC'd posts are unwelcome.
Ask me about joining the NRA.

I've leveled concrete floors using Quickrete's self leveling product.
It works well but as was pointed out it is a bit pricey. Estimate the
volume you'll need. If you're ok with the cost it's not a hard job.
Mix 25 to 50 lbs at a time, I use a 1/2" drill driving a mixing paddle
and pour it on. It will help to have one person mixing and another
spreading and working the surface.

Make provisions to put a form at each floor level entrance or exit.
Having self leveling concrete running out of a door can be a bit stressful.

My observation is that this product will not be as hard as the concrete
you'll be covering though. Be sure to install a good vapor barrier
before installing your flooring.

RB

D K Woods wrote:
We're purchasing a new home and looking into putting new flooring in. I
plan to use a finished room in the basement as an office, and want to
put in a 'hardwood' laminate floor. The problem is, the concrete in the
basement in *extremely* uneven. I don't know a specific depth since I
haven't pulled up the carpet that's current covering it, but I would
guess some of the worst parts vary by maybe 1" over a 2' area.
Positively wavy.

I've seen that Quikrete has a self-leveling floor resurfacer, but I
don't know if it will work to that magnitude (possibly with several
stages?). I also haven't found any indication as to how much might be
needed for a given area -- or where to get it, or how costly it is. What
kind of equipment is needed for this job? I've read that a power mixer,
or a mixer tool on a power drill, is needed, as well as some tubs and
cleaning agents. But I've also seen pictures of people using some kind
of tubing/hose to pour the mixture. Is this necessary? Fortunately, the
quikrete stuff allegedly does not need any trowling.

How difficult would a resurfacing project like this be? I'm new to
flooring AND to concrete.

And finally, will the fact that this is an interior surface alter the
estimated drying times? The room can be vented through a door into the
garage. What about fumes?

Much appreciated!
-david

I'd like to discuss the topic of using a vapor barrier. I've gone two ways
on a poured cement floor. One was actually laying down a plastic sheet on
the floor and then putting down furring strips followed by the plywood. The
other, in another room, was to paint a floor sealer on the cement and then
the furring strips etc.. The results indicate that the sealer was the
better of the two--The floor breathes letting the moisture up through the
cement. The plastic sheet trapped the moisture and as a result water formed
between the floor and the plastic. I had a poured floor prior to that at
one time and it was so good at trapping the moisture that parts of the floor
bubbled up. Punctured the bubbles and water squirted out. I put a nail in a
drill and just broke the surface all over the floor to solve that problem.
Right now there is ceramic tile on the floor and no problems (floor leveler
was used)
MLD
"RB" wrote in message
...
I've leveled concrete floors using Quickrete's self leveling product.
It works well but as was pointed out it is a bit pricey. Estimate the
volume you'll need. If you're ok with the cost it's not a hard job.
Mix 25 to 50 lbs at a time, I use a 1/2" drill driving a mixing paddle
and pour it on. It will help to have one person mixing and another
spreading and working the surface.

Make provisions to put a form at each floor level entrance or exit.
Having self leveling concrete running out of a door can be a bit
stressful.

My observation is that this product will not be as hard as the concrete
you'll be covering though. Be sure to install a good vapor barrier
before installing your flooring.

RB

D K Woods wrote:
We're purchasing a new home and looking into putting new flooring in. I
plan to use a finished room in the basement as an office, and want to
put in a 'hardwood' laminate floor. The problem is, the concrete in the
basement in *extremely* uneven. I don't know a specific depth since I
haven't pulled up the carpet that's current covering it, but I would
guess some of the worst parts vary by maybe 1" over a 2' area.
Positively wavy.

I've seen that Quikrete has a self-leveling floor resurfacer, but I
don't know if it will work to that magnitude (possibly with several
stages?). I also haven't found any indication as to how much might be
needed for a given area -- or where to get it, or how costly it is. What
kind of equipment is needed for this job? I've read that a power mixer,
or a mixer tool on a power drill, is needed, as well as some tubs and
cleaning agents. But I've also seen pictures of people using some kind
of tubing/hose to pour the mixture. Is this necessary? Fortunately, the
quikrete stuff allegedly does not need any trowling.

How difficult would a resurfacing project like this be? I'm new to
flooring AND to concrete.

And finally, will the fact that this is an interior surface alter the
estimated drying times? The room can be vented through a door into the
garage. What about fumes?

Much appreciated!
-david

Hmm, I hadn't considered standing water as a problem. I've heard that
moisture barriers are designed to prevent the occassional rise -- and
then fall -- of water, such as with a heavy rain. But you're talking
about the moisture from drying concrete/leveler, right? How soon can
you paint on the sealer? I've heard the times are 6-24hrs for foot
traffic and 24hrs to up to 7 days for vehicle traffic. Though of
course, there's the added problem is this being an interior surface....

Thanks!
-david

MLD wrote:
I'd like to discuss the topic of using a vapor barrier. I've gone two ways
on a poured cement floor. One was actually laying down a plastic sheet on
the floor and then putting down furring strips followed by the plywood. The
other, in another room, was to paint a floor sealer on the cement and then
the furring strips etc.. The results indicate that the sealer was the
better of the two--The floor breathes letting the moisture up through the
cement. The plastic sheet trapped the moisture and as a result water formed
between the floor and the plastic. I had a poured floor prior to that at
one time and it was so good at trapping the moisture that parts of the floor
bubbled up. Punctured the bubbles and water squirted out. I put a nail in a
drill and just broke the surface all over the floor to solve that problem.
Right now there is ceramic tile on the floor and no problems (floor leveler
was used)
MLD
"RB" wrote in message
...

I've leveled concrete floors using Quickrete's self leveling product.
It works well but as was pointed out it is a bit pricey. Estimate the
volume you'll need. If you're ok with the cost it's not a hard job.
Mix 25 to 50 lbs at a time, I use a 1/2" drill driving a mixing paddle
and pour it on. It will help to have one person mixing and another
spreading and working the surface.

Make provisions to put a form at each floor level entrance or exit.
Having self leveling concrete running out of a door can be a bit

stressful.

My observation is that this product will not be as hard as the concrete
you'll be covering though. Be sure to install a good vapor barrier
before installing your flooring.

RB

D K Woods wrote:

We're purchasing a new home and looking into putting new flooring in. I
plan to use a finished room in the basement as an office, and want to
put in a 'hardwood' laminate floor. The problem is, the concrete in the
basement in *extremely* uneven. I don't know a specific depth since I
haven't pulled up the carpet that's current covering it, but I would
guess some of the worst parts vary by maybe 1" over a 2' area.
Positively wavy.

I've seen that Quikrete has a self-leveling floor resurfacer, but I
don't know if it will work to that magnitude (possibly with several
stages?). I also haven't found any indication as to how much might be
needed for a given area -- or where to get it, or how costly it is. What
kind of equipment is needed for this job? I've read that a power mixer,
or a mixer tool on a power drill, is needed, as well as some tubs and
cleaning agents. But I've also seen pictures of people using some kind
of tubing/hose to pour the mixture. Is this necessary? Fortunately, the
quikrete stuff allegedly does not need any trowling.

How difficult would a resurfacing project like this be? I'm new to
flooring AND to concrete.

And finally, will the fact that this is an interior surface alter the
estimated drying times? The room can be vented through a door into the
garage. What about fumes?

Much appreciated!
-david

Thanks for the tips! Fortunately, it's the entire basement area that
need redoing, so if I just block the garage door I should be ok. I can
imagine how that could get easily out of hand, though!

What I'm not sure about is how much Xlbs of resurfacer will surface.
So, say that the average depth -- the troughs of the waves, so to speak
-- is 1/2", and I would guess the entire area to be roughly 750-800sqft,
so the volume of resurfacer I would need is about 34 cubic feet
(rounding up). About how many lbs of resurfacing mix would this need?
(Although the quikrete website recommends patching the really deep spots
with an acrylic fortifier/sand mix first, so that would probably
dramatically cut down on the amount of mix I'll need.)

thanks
-david



RB wrote:

I've leveled concrete floors using Quickrete's self leveling product. It
works well but as was pointed out it is a bit pricey. Estimate the
volume you'll need. If you're ok with the cost it's not a hard job. Mix
25 to 50 lbs at a time, I use a 1/2" drill driving a mixing paddle and
pour it on. It will help to have one person mixing and another
spreading and working the surface.

Make provisions to put a form at each floor level entrance or exit.
Having self leveling concrete running out of a door can be a bit stressful.

My observation is that this product will not be as hard as the concrete
you'll be covering though. Be sure to install a good vapor barrier
before installing your flooring.

RB

D K Woods wrote:

We're purchasing a new home and looking into putting new flooring in.
I plan to use a finished room in the basement as an office, and want
to put in a 'hardwood' laminate floor. The problem is, the concrete
in the basement in *extremely* uneven. I don't know a specific depth
since I haven't pulled up the carpet that's current covering it, but I
would guess some of the worst parts vary by maybe 1" over a 2' area.
Positively wavy.

I've seen that Quikrete has a self-leveling floor resurfacer, but I
don't know if it will work to that magnitude (possibly with several
stages?). I also haven't found any indication as to how much might be
needed for a given area -- or where to get it, or how costly it is.
What kind of equipment is needed for this job? I've read that a power
mixer, or a mixer tool on a power drill, is needed, as well as some
tubs and cleaning agents. But I've also seen pictures of people using
some kind of tubing/hose to pour the mixture. Is this necessary?
Fortunately, the quikrete stuff allegedly does not need any trowling.

How difficult would a resurfacing project like this be? I'm new to
flooring AND to concrete.

And finally, will the fact that this is an interior surface alter the
estimated drying times? The room can be vented through a door into
the garage. What about fumes?

Much appreciated!
-david

Chris Lewis wrote:

According to D K Woods :

How difficult would a resurfacing project like this be? I'm new to
flooring AND to concrete.


"Solutions" range all the way from just bridging an occasional dip
with subflooring (ie: plywood sheet), all the way to laying and
leveling a few inches of new concrete over the whole floor.

I hadn't though of this yet, it could be an option.


Even _with_ seeing your floor, I'd probably not be a good source
for recommending the right solution. How widespread is the problem?
Is the floor generally flat with occasional dips/ripples, or,
completely unflat (ie: different slopes thruout the floor)?


I'd like to know the full extent myself. I haven't peeked under the
carpet yet, but assuming it's about the same as the unfinished portion,
then I would say it's moderately flat with two or three really
rough/wavy spots.


You're probably looking at several days for curing. Likely weeks
(or even months) before covering with wood flooring over fresh concrete.

Ugh.


The fumes are unlikely to be a big deal (concrete "fumes" are just water
evaporation...), as long as you have active ventilation.

Good, those kind of fumes I can handle. I was more worried about some
of the epoxy-based solutions I've heard about.


Thanks for the advice!
-david

I did something like that just 4 to 5 months ago. My suggestions a

- Check the basement head room. If the basement has a low ceiling
already, you may not want to spend too much effort in converting it
into a living space. A low ceiling will not be a very nice living
space given the time and effort and money that you will spend on
converting it. My basement has a low ceiling and I converted it
anyway. If I could start this over with, I would not bother converting
it. Moreover, if you raised the floor (in order to make the floor
even) and then put in a drop ceiling, your basement head room will be
even lower than it is now.

- Leveling the floor with leveling compound or concrete is no fun, is
hard work (bad for your knees), is nothing to be proud of (I gain no
credit by pointing at my floor and tell my friends: "I level it!"), is
very easy to make mistake, and is next to impossible to undo the
mistake, and is costly if making mistake. You are better off
contracting this out. If I could do this over with, I would surely
hire a pro to do that part of the job.

- At the minimum, you should postpone this until you have lived in
your new house for a year or two. Then, you will see whether your
basement really has no water problem or not. Watching it for one
season is not enough in my opinion because the water can come from
many places that may only come in a heavy rain storm. Moreover, after
one or two years, you will have a much better idea of how you can use
the space in the basement.

- Considering the time and money that you need to spend on fixing the
basement and if the ceiling head is low, you may find that leaving the
basement for storage may be a good idea. Or you can simply put rubber
tiles over some area in the basement and use that area for doing
exercise (put plastic sheet under the rubber tiles). I have seen very
nicely done storage area in an unfinished basement in one of the
Sunday Times Magazine. Or you can put your workshop there. You really
don't have to finish it.

- The "self-leveling" property of leveling compound is much less than
what you and I might have thought. It is "self-leveling" as being
compared to concrete. It may work in a small area (like a small
bathroom). But in a large area, you still need to help it along with
tools.

- Leveling compound is very expensive. If your floor is so uneven,
you need to even it somewhat with concrete before using the expensive
leveling compound. Or better yet, you can use wood strips to level the
floor if you don't mind losing the vertical space for the wood strips.

- Find the exact level line in your room using a laser leveler or a
water-tube leveler and then transfer the level line to the floor
level, instead of depending on the so-called self-leveling property of
the leveling compound.

- Use a string to connect the leveling line that you have marked on
the wall to find the high spots and low spots in your floor instead of
depending on eye-balling.

- Mark the high spots in your floor, and never pour anything that
will be above the high spots. This is easy to pour the concrete and
leveling compound; but this is very difficult to remove them if you
pour too much and they have become hardened.

Hope I have talked you out of doing this. Good luck with whatever that
you will decide to do.

Jay Chan

Wow, Jay, thanks for the excellent comments! It is definately starting
to sound like something to hire somebody to do.... The room in question
is already finished -- just with a rather bumpy carpet! We're
definately redoing the floors in the main and second levels, and while
it would be nice to do the basement at the same time, between the
comments I've received here and some financial hints from my wife (ahem)
I think I'll be putting up with the basement as it is for the time being!

thanks again,
-david


Jay Chan wrote:
I did something like that just 4 to 5 months ago. My suggestions a

- Check the basement head room. If the basement has a low ceiling
already, you may not want to spend too much effort in converting it
into a living space. A low ceiling will not be a very nice living
space given the time and effort and money that you will spend on
converting it. My basement has a low ceiling and I converted it
anyway. If I could start this over with, I would not bother converting
it. Moreover, if you raised the floor (in order to make the floor
even) and then put in a drop ceiling, your basement head room will be
even lower than it is now.

- Leveling the floor with leveling compound or concrete is no fun, is
hard work (bad for your knees), is nothing to be proud of (I gain no
credit by pointing at my floor and tell my friends: "I level it!"), is
very easy to make mistake, and is next to impossible to undo the
mistake, and is costly if making mistake. You are better off
contracting this out. If I could do this over with, I would surely
hire a pro to do that part of the job.

- At the minimum, you should postpone this until you have lived in
your new house for a year or two. Then, you will see whether your
basement really has no water problem or not. Watching it for one
season is not enough in my opinion because the water can come from
many places that may only come in a heavy rain storm. Moreover, after
one or two years, you will have a much better idea of how you can use
the space in the basement.

- Considering the time and money that you need to spend on fixing the
basement and if the ceiling head is low, you may find that leaving the
basement for storage may be a good idea. Or you can simply put rubber
tiles over some area in the basement and use that area for doing
exercise (put plastic sheet under the rubber tiles). I have seen very
nicely done storage area in an unfinished basement in one of the
Sunday Times Magazine. Or you can put your workshop there. You really
don't have to finish it.

- The "self-leveling" property of leveling compound is much less than
what you and I might have thought. It is "self-leveling" as being
compared to concrete. It may work in a small area (like a small
bathroom). But in a large area, you still need to help it along with
tools.

- Leveling compound is very expensive. If your floor is so uneven,
you need to even it somewhat with concrete before using the expensive
leveling compound. Or better yet, you can use wood strips to level the
floor if you don't mind losing the vertical space for the wood strips.

- Find the exact level line in your room using a laser leveler or a
water-tube leveler and then transfer the level line to the floor
level, instead of depending on the so-called self-leveling property of
the leveling compound.

- Use a string to connect the leveling line that you have marked on
the wall to find the high spots and low spots in your floor instead of
depending on eye-balling.

- Mark the high spots in your floor, and never pour anything that
will be above the high spots. This is easy to pour the concrete and
leveling compound; but this is very difficult to remove them if you
pour too much and they have become hardened.

Hope I have talked you out of doing this. Good luck with whatever that
you will decide to do.

Jay Chan

The moisture (vapor) comes through the cement floor on a continuous basis.
Ceramic tile, carpet & pad etc. don't present a problem, apparently the
vapor just makes its way through. With a plastic barrier, the moisture
still get through the cement but is stopped by the barrier. At that point it
can condense and thus you have water between the floor and the barrier. As
it accumulates it can go anywhere. I don't remember exactly, but it didn't
take too long for the (painted) sealer to dry. I believe that it was the
same day that we started laying down the furring strips--pressure treated,
of course.
MLD
"D K Woods" wrote in message
...
Hmm, I hadn't considered standing water as a problem. I've heard that
moisture barriers are designed to prevent the occassional rise -- and
then fall -- of water, such as with a heavy rain. But you're talking
about the moisture from drying concrete/leveler, right? How soon can
you paint on the sealer? I've heard the times are 6-24hrs for foot
traffic and 24hrs to up to 7 days for vehicle traffic. Though of
course, there's the added problem is this being an interior surface....

Thanks!
-david

MLD wrote:
I'd like to discuss the topic of using a vapor barrier. I've gone two
ways
on a poured cement floor. One was actually laying down a plastic sheet
on
the floor and then putting down furring strips followed by the plywood.
The
other, in another room, was to paint a floor sealer on the cement and
then
the furring strips etc.. The results indicate that the sealer was the
better of the two--The floor breathes letting the moisture up through
the
cement. The plastic sheet trapped the moisture and as a result water
formed
between the floor and the plastic. I had a poured floor prior to that
at
one time and it was so good at trapping the moisture that parts of the
floor
bubbled up. Punctured the bubbles and water squirted out. I put a nail
in a
drill and just broke the surface all over the floor to solve that
problem.
Right now there is ceramic tile on the floor and no problems (floor
leveler
was used)
MLD
"RB" wrote in message
...

I've leveled concrete floors using Quickrete's self leveling product.
It works well but as was pointed out it is a bit pricey. Estimate the
volume you'll need. If you're ok with the cost it's not a hard job.
Mix 25 to 50 lbs at a time, I use a 1/2" drill driving a mixing paddle
and pour it on. It will help to have one person mixing and another
spreading and working the surface.

Make provisions to put a form at each floor level entrance or exit.
Having self leveling concrete running out of a door can be a bit

stressful.

My observation is that this product will not be as hard as the concrete
you'll be covering though. Be sure to install a good vapor barrier
before installing your flooring.

RB

D K Woods wrote:

We're purchasing a new home and looking into putting new flooring in.
I
plan to use a finished room in the basement as an office, and want to
put in a 'hardwood' laminate floor. The problem is, the concrete in
the
basement in *extremely* uneven. I don't know a specific depth since I
haven't pulled up the carpet that's current covering it, but I would
guess some of the worst parts vary by maybe 1" over a 2' area.
Positively wavy.

I've seen that Quikrete has a self-leveling floor resurfacer, but I
don't know if it will work to that magnitude (possibly with several
stages?). I also haven't found any indication as to how much might be
needed for a given area -- or where to get it, or how costly it is.
What
kind of equipment is needed for this job? I've read that a power
mixer,
or a mixer tool on a power drill, is needed, as well as some tubs and
cleaning agents. But I've also seen pictures of people using some kind
of tubing/hose to pour the mixture. Is this necessary? Fortunately,
the
quikrete stuff allegedly does not need any trowling.

How difficult would a resurfacing project like this be? I'm new to
flooring AND to concrete.

And finally, will the fact that this is an interior surface alter the
estimated drying times? The room can be vented through a door into the
garage. What about fumes?

Much appreciated!
-david

D K Woods wrote:
Chris Lewis wrote:
snipage
You're probably looking at several days for curing. Likely weeks
(or even months) before covering with wood flooring over fresh concrete.

Ugh.

Umm, AFAIK, this is untrue. Let it cure for a day or two and you could
throw down a vapor barrier and go to town.



John
--
Remove the dead poet to e-mail, tho CC'd posts are unwelcome.
Ask me about joining the NRA.

... We're definately redoing the floors in the main and second levels,
and while it would be nice to do the basement at the same time, between
the comments I've received here and some financial hints from my wife
(ahem) I think I'll be putting up with the basement as it is for the
time being!

I can see that your wife is a very smart woman and watches every penny


When you move into the new house, you may want to move stuff away from
the basement wall. When it rains, you may want to go down to the
basement to make sure you don't see any water near the basement wall.
Meanwhile, start visualize how you will be using the basement, where
to run ductwork for the central air conditioner if you don't already
have one...

Good luck with your new house.

Jay Chan

wrote:
D K Woods wrote:

Chris Lewis wrote:

snipage

You're probably looking at several days for curing. Likely weeks
(or even months) before covering with wood flooring over fresh concrete.


Ugh.


Umm, AFAIK, this is untrue. Let it cure for a day or two and you could
throw down a vapor barrier and go to town.



John

Hi John,

Thanks for the second opinion. According to the Quikrete website the
'fast-settings' version should be good after 24 hours (and it even
mentioned that you can walk on it after 6!). But I figured that must be
a best-case-scenario for outdoors work. I'm sure being inside will slow
down the curing -- but weeks sounded a bit much.

Of course, if Chris' goal was to frighten me away from the project, well
consider the warning heeded. It's looking more and more like something
that will be done sometime over the next few years instead of next few
weeks.

-david

According to MLD :
The moisture (vapor) comes through the cement floor on a continuous basis.
Ceramic tile, carpet & pad etc. don't present a problem, apparently the
vapor just makes its way through.

Not necessarily. The vapor _may_ pop ceramic or vinyl right off the floor,
cause mould in carpet/pad, cause hardwood to buckle.

Take a 2' square of heavy plastic (like dropcloth). Tape it down over
the concrete and seal down all the edges.

Let it sit for several days (preferably in the spring). If you have
condensation under the plastic, you will need to address the moisture
problem.

This is one way to tell when a new floor treatment is okay to cover over.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

According to D K Woods :
wrote:
D K Woods wrote:

Chris Lewis wrote:

You're probably looking at several days for curing. Likely weeks
(or even months) before covering with wood flooring over fresh concrete.

Ugh.

Umm, AFAIK, this is untrue. Let it cure for a day or two and you could
throw down a vapor barrier and go to town.

Hi John,

Thanks for the second opinion. According to the Quikrete website the
'fast-settings' version should be good after 24 hours (and it even
mentioned that you can walk on it after 6!). But I figured that must be
a best-case-scenario for outdoors work. I'm sure being inside will slow
down the curing -- but weeks sounded a bit much.

Do realize that Quickrete's numbers are for setting of the material so
that you can walk on it. Ordinary concrete achieves about 95% of
its strength in a few days (less with quickset types), but the curing
process continues for much longer. Ie: a month.

I'm referring to the amount of time you may need to wait before
_finishing_ the floor, not how long you need to wait to walk on it.

Take a look at the instructions for painting concrete and you'll see
what I mean.

Fresh concrete is often a difficult surface to paint/bond to. Due to the
concrete itself (eg: base pH), and/or due to the the fact that concrete
continues to outgas moisture for a fair while while it finishes off
final cure.

The latter is _especially_ an issue with hardwood flooring.

The former is why you often have to use muriatic acid to prep concrete
for painting.

Of course, if Chris' goal was to frighten me away from the project, well
consider the warning heeded. It's looking more and more like something
that will be done sometime over the next few years instead of next few
weeks.

I didn't mean to do that. It just sounded like you had a generally
uneven (rather than spot-uneven) floor, where at least hearing what a
couple of contractors who actually _saw_ your situation would suggest
would help you decide what to do. If it's just a few square feet you
need to level, that's a different ballgame.

My remarks about long wait times is meant in this way: you get the floor/spots
releveled. You'll be able to _use_ the floor in a day or two at most. But
I recommend waiting a month or more before putting a floor covering on it.

Two steps with a fair length of time between is simply what I suggest.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

"Chris Lewis" wrote in message
...
According to MLD :
The moisture (vapor) comes through the cement floor on a continuous
basis.
Ceramic tile, carpet & pad etc. don't present a problem, apparently the
vapor just makes its way through.

Not necessarily. The vapor _may_ pop ceramic or vinyl right off the
floor,
cause mould in carpet/pad, cause hardwood to buckle.

Take a 2' square of heavy plastic (like dropcloth). Tape it down over
the concrete and seal down all the edges.

Let it sit for several days (preferably in the spring). If you have
condensation under the plastic, you will need to address the moisture
problem.

This is one way to tell when a new floor treatment is okay to cover over.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

My comments reflect my own experience as well as others that have similar
installations. I had carpet on the floor for years without any trace of
moisture or mold; currently have ceramic tile now for 2 yrs again without
any problems. Taping heavy plastic and sealing the edges would be a good
test to determine just how bad the moisture problem would be if an
installation used a vapor barrier. However, I don't think it is applicable
to a floor covering that will allow the moisture to pass on through. On the
ceramic tile installation I believe that it is the grout joints that allow
the moisture to pass through. And, as previously noted, in my case, this
is on a floor that developed bubbles of water under a *poured floor* which
was essentially a vapor barrier deluxe
MLD

Chris Lewis wrote:
According to D K Woods :
wrote:
D K Woods wrote:

Chris Lewis wrote:

You're probably looking at several days for curing. Likely weeks
(or even months) before covering with wood flooring over fresh concrete.

Ugh.

Umm, AFAIK, this is untrue. Let it cure for a day or two and you could
throw down a vapor barrier and go to town.

Hi John,

Thanks for the second opinion. According to the Quikrete website the
'fast-settings' version should be good after 24 hours (and it even
mentioned that you can walk on it after 6!). But I figured that must be
a best-case-scenario for outdoors work. I'm sure being inside will slow
down the curing -- but weeks sounded a bit much.

Do realize that Quickrete's numbers are for setting of the material so
that you can walk on it. Ordinary concrete achieves about 95% of
its strength in a few days (less with quickset types), but the curing
process continues for much longer. Ie: a month.

Even longer still: concrete never stops curing, but the amount of
increased strength gets infintesimal after a while.

I'm referring to the amount of time you may need to wait before
_finishing_ the floor, not how long you need to wait to walk on it.

Take a look at the instructions for painting concrete and you'll see
what I mean.

Painting is another matter and you're quite right: you probaly should wait
a month for that. But laying a laminate floor atop the floor could be
done as soon as it's safe to walk on.

Fresh concrete is often a difficult surface to paint/bond to. Due to the
concrete itself (eg: base pH), and/or due to the the fact that concrete
continues to outgas moisture for a fair while while it finishes off
final cure.

The latter is _especially_ an issue with hardwood flooring.

Which is why you put down the vapor barrier, since you don't want the
water evaporating for good strength of the concrete.

The former is why you often have to use muriatic acid to prep concrete
for painting.

Of course, if Chris' goal was to frighten me away from the project, well
consider the warning heeded. It's looking more and more like something
that will be done sometime over the next few years instead of next few
weeks.

I didn't mean to do that. It just sounded like you had a generally
uneven (rather than spot-uneven) floor, where at least hearing what a
couple of contractors who actually _saw_ your situation would suggest
would help you decide what to do. If it's just a few square feet you
need to level, that's a different ballgame.

My remarks about long wait times is meant in this way: you get the floor/spots
releveled. You'll be able to _use_ the floor in a day or two at most. But
I recommend waiting a month or more before putting a floor covering on it.

If you're talking paint or stain, I'd agree, but laminate flooring should
be able to go down as soon as you can walk on it, provided you put down a
good vapor barrier to isolate the moisture.

But then I wouldn't bother with a cement fix at all, I'd do it with lumber
as I already suggested.



John
--
Remove the dead poet to e-mail, tho CC'd posts are unwelcome.
Ask me about joining the NRA.

Chris Lewis wrote:
Thanks for the second opinion. According to the Quikrete website the
'fast-settings' version should be good after 24 hours (and it even
mentioned that you can walk on it after 6!). But I figured that must be
a best-case-scenario for outdoors work. I'm sure being inside will slow
down the curing -- but weeks sounded a bit much.


Do realize that Quickrete's numbers are for setting of the material so
that you can walk on it. Ordinary concrete achieves about 95% of
its strength in a few days (less with quickset types), but the curing
process continues for much longer. Ie: a month.

Ah, ok now I see where my lack of base knowledge comes in. This makes
sense.


Of course, if Chris' goal was to frighten me away from the project, well
consider the warning heeded. It's looking more and more like something
that will be done sometime over the next few years instead of next few
weeks.


I didn't mean to do that. It just sounded like you had a generally
uneven (rather than spot-uneven) floor, where at least hearing what a
couple of contractors who actually _saw_ your situation would suggest
would help you decide what to do. If it's just a few square feet you
need to level, that's a different ballgame.

My remarks about long wait times is meant in this way: you get the floor/spots
releveled. You'll be able to _use_ the floor in a day or two at most. But
I recommend waiting a month or more before putting a floor covering on it.

Two steps with a fair length of time between is simply what I suggest.

As for spot-uneven vs generally uneven...that will be a mystery until
the carpet is up. It *feels* generally uneven, and the unfinished
utility area is fairly wavey. As for the two steps with a good bit of
time in between... Well, the area is already finished and will be the
new home office (I work exclusively from home) when we move in. I was
hoping the flooring good be done in the six weeks between closing and
when our current lease is up. But I'll just wait a year or so, then
move the office temporarily into the living room or guest room maybe
while I give the floor plenty of time to set.

In any case, I admit I was getting a little ahead of myself. It would
be nice to get that done before I move everything in, but I think I've
talked my wife into putting some money into a really nice refridgerator
instead. I can live with that.

-david