Couldn't you get a 6 foot step ladder and attach something to it so
that it's about 10 feet tall and use it in place of the missing
tree ???


On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 11:55:58 -0700, spamersarevile wrote:

I need some help on priming a water pump at the cottage. The pump
is located about 200 feet from the lake, maybe 6 feet higher in
elevation. Due to circumstances, it isn't possible to locate the
pump at the lake - I've looked into this - I know pumps are more
efficient at pushing water instead of pulling water - in this case,
it's just c'est la vie. My father used to prime the pump by pulling
the inlet end of the hose out of the lake, putting a ladder up against
a tree and tieing the hose to the tree, maybe 10 feet up and then
using a watering can to fill up the hose, and when it was full,
throwing the inlet back in the lake.

That tree is history this year.

Is it possible to fill up the hose at the pump end? There's a (screw
valve?) there (a plug that screws in just before the water line enters
the pump). Pore in the water through that valve into the hose and
then reclose that valve.

Problem is while there's plenty of water at the lake, there ain't any
200 feet away and that means schlepping maybe 20 watering cans one
at a time to the pump and instead of filling up the hose relatively
quickly, I'd be doing it gradually, over say 1 hour. Won't some/all
of that water simply run back into the lake? I could maybe get a
cart and lugg more water at one time, but it'd still take 3 or 4 trips
and maybe 20 minutes.

Is there some way of sucking the air out of the water hose. If the
inlet is in the lake, wouldn't the water then rise in the hose as the
air is vacated?

Every spring it's been a lot of work to get the pump working. It's
not the pump itself, just the distance involved and the impossibility
of situating the pump at the lakes' edge.

Mike

spamersarevile wrote:

Is it possible to fill up the hose at the pump end? There's a (screw
valve?) there (a plug that screws in just before the water line enters
the pump). Pore in the water through that valve into the hose and
then reclose that valve.

Well, if you want to carry the water, you need a "foot valve" for your
water line to keep it from running out.

But you might put a "Y" valve on the lake end and get a cheap bilge
pump from a boating supply store and that would save a lot of hauling.
I have a "Thirsty-Mate" hand pump about 3' long that might work. It
came with about 6' of hose and there's places to get extra hose so you
can pump from further away.

Looks like it costs about $30 on the net, but I don't think I paid
that much for mine.

spamersarevile wrote:

I need some help on priming a water pump at the cottage. The pump
is located about 200 feet from the lake, maybe 6 feet higher in
elevation. Due to circumstances, it isn't possible to locate the
.......
Every spring it's been a lot of work to get the pump working. It's
not the pump itself, just the distance involved and the impossibility
of situating the pump at the lakes' edge.

If you're on dirt, just dig an 8' deep hole at the cottage, and run
an inlet pipe to the lake, and pump from the "well". If you're
on rock, put a backflow valve at the lake end, with a hose-bib
toward the cottage. Use a hand pump through the hose-bib
to fill the pipe. Or replace the impeller pump with a piston-type
that will suck air and water both.

Why is it "impossible" to put the pump at the lake-edge?

First you need a check valve on the bottom of the pickup hose in the lake.
Then you should be able to pull the plug at the pump inlet and fill with
water until the pickup hose is full. I would plumb in a valve right there at
the pump outlet so that you could fill up some 5 gal. buckets once the pump
is running and keep them at the pump for future priming. In the fall you
would need to open up that check valve and let the water run out of the hose
so it doesn't freeze and crack the hose and/or pump.

spamersarevile wrote in message
...
I need some help on priming a water pump at the cottage. The pump
is located about 200 feet from the lake, maybe 6 feet higher in
elevation. Due to circumstances, it isn't possible to locate the
pump at the lake - I've looked into this - I know pumps are more
efficient at pushing water instead of pulling water - in this case,
it's just c'est la vie. My father used to prime the pump by pulling
the inlet end of the hose out of the lake, putting a ladder up against
a tree and tieing the hose to the tree, maybe 10 feet up and then
using a watering can to fill up the hose, and when it was full,
throwing the inlet back in the lake.

That tree is history this year.

Is it possible to fill up the hose at the pump end? There's a (screw
valve?) there (a plug that screws in just before the water line enters
the pump). Pore in the water through that valve into the hose and
then reclose that valve.

Problem is while there's plenty of water at the lake, there ain't any
200 feet away and that means schlepping maybe 20 watering cans one
at a time to the pump and instead of filling up the hose relatively
quickly, I'd be doing it gradually, over say 1 hour. Won't some/all
of that water simply run back into the lake? I could maybe get a
cart and lugg more water at one time, but it'd still take 3 or 4 trips
and maybe 20 minutes.

Is there some way of sucking the air out of the water hose. If the
inlet is in the lake, wouldn't the water then rise in the hose as the
air is vacated?

Every spring it's been a lot of work to get the pump working. It's
not the pump itself, just the distance involved and the impossibility
of situating the pump at the lakes' edge.

Mike

I need some help on priming a water pump at the cottage. The pump
is located about 200 feet from the lake, maybe 6 feet higher in
elevation. Due to circumstances, it isn't possible to locate the
pump at the lake - I've looked into this - I know pumps are more
efficient at pushing water instead of pulling water - in this case,
it's just c'est la vie. My father used to prime the pump by pulling
the inlet end of the hose out of the lake, putting a ladder up against
a tree and tieing the hose to the tree, maybe 10 feet up and then
using a watering can to fill up the hose, and when it was full,
throwing the inlet back in the lake.

That tree is history this year.

Is it possible to fill up the hose at the pump end? There's a (screw
valve?) there (a plug that screws in just before the water line enters
the pump). Pore in the water through that valve into the hose and
then reclose that valve.

Problem is while there's plenty of water at the lake, there ain't any
200 feet away and that means schlepping maybe 20 watering cans one
at a time to the pump and instead of filling up the hose relatively
quickly, I'd be doing it gradually, over say 1 hour. Won't some/all
of that water simply run back into the lake? I could maybe get a
cart and lugg more water at one time, but it'd still take 3 or 4 trips
and maybe 20 minutes.

Is there some way of sucking the air out of the water hose. If the
inlet is in the lake, wouldn't the water then rise in the hose as the
air is vacated?

Every spring it's been a lot of work to get the pump working. It's
not the pump itself, just the distance involved and the impossibility
of situating the pump at the lakes' edge.

Mike

spamersarevile wrote in message ...
I need some help on priming a water pump at the cottage. The pump
is located about 200 feet from the lake, maybe 6 feet higher in
elevation. Due to circumstances, it isn't possible to locate the
pump at the lake - I've looked into this - I know pumps are more
efficient at pushing water instead of pulling water - in this case,
it's just c'est la vie. My father used to prime the pump by pulling
the inlet end of the hose out of the lake, putting a ladder up against
a tree and tieing the hose to the tree, maybe 10 feet up and then
using a watering can to fill up the hose, and when it was full,
throwing the inlet back in the lake.

That tree is history this year.

Is it possible to fill up the hose at the pump end? There's a (screw
valve?) there (a plug that screws in just before the water line enters
the pump). Pore in the water through that valve into the hose and
then reclose that valve.

Problem is while there's plenty of water at the lake, there ain't any
200 feet away and that means schlepping maybe 20 watering cans one
at a time to the pump and instead of filling up the hose relatively
quickly, I'd be doing it gradually, over say 1 hour. Won't some/all
of that water simply run back into the lake? I could maybe get a
cart and lugg more water at one time, but it'd still take 3 or 4 trips
and maybe 20 minutes.

Is there some way of sucking the air out of the water hose. If the
inlet is in the lake, wouldn't the water then rise in the hose as the
air is vacated?

Every spring it's been a lot of work to get the pump working. It's
not the pump itself, just the distance involved and the impossibility
of situating the pump at the lakes' edge.

Mike

First you need a simple fix to stop all this work in the first place. Install a check valve at the hose that goes into the lake to
not let the water back out of the 200 foot line and it will stay primed always. if it will not stay primed, You have a leak in the
200 foot line and find the leak and fix it. $7.00 could save all this work.

TURTLE


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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All of the advice I have read so far looks workable. However, if you
had to ask the question, I respectfully suggest that you don't really
understand how stuff works..... and I mean that in the nicest possible
way.......

Contact your brother-in-law. They always give good advice...

Andy in Fink, Texas


spamersarevile wrote in message
...
I need some help on priming a water pump at the cottage. The pump
is located about 200 feet from the lake, maybe 6 feet higher in
elevation. Due to circumstances, it isn't possible to locate the
pump at the lake - I've looked into this - I know pumps are more
efficient at pushing water instead of pulling water - in this case,
it's just c'est la vie. My father used to prime the pump by pulling
the inlet end of the hose out of the lake, putting a ladder up against
a tree and tieing the hose to the tree, maybe 10 feet up and then
using a watering can to fill up the hose, and when it was full,
throwing the inlet back in the lake.

That tree is history this year.

Is it possible to fill up the hose at the pump end? There's a (screw
valve?) there (a plug that screws in just before the water line enters
the pump). Pore in the water through that valve into the hose and
then reclose that valve.

Problem is while there's plenty of water at the lake, there ain't any
200 feet away and that means schlepping maybe 20 watering cans one
at a time to the pump and instead of filling up the hose relatively
quickly, I'd be doing it gradually, over say 1 hour. Won't some/all
of that water simply run back into the lake? I could maybe get a
cart and lugg more water at one time, but it'd still take 3 or 4 trips
and maybe 20 minutes.

Is there some way of sucking the air out of the water hose. If the
inlet is in the lake, wouldn't the water then rise in the hose as the
air is vacated?

Every spring it's been a lot of work to get the pump working. It's
not the pump itself, just the distance involved and the impossibility
of situating the pump at the lakes' edge.

Mike

On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 11:55:58 -0700, someone wrote:


200 feet away and that means schlepping maybe 20 watering cans one
at a time

How small a watering can is that? How big a hose? 400 feet round
trip x 20 is roughly 1.5 miles. Couldn't you use a bigger container
for less trips????

Is there any check valve at the intake end (and how good is it). If
not, OF COURSE all the water will flow into the lake. Pour water into
the high end of a hose, and why wouldn't it come out thre low end?

Is there some way of sucking the air out of the water hose. If the
inlet is in the lake, wouldn't the water then rise in the hose as the
air is vacated?

Well yeah, that is what I was going to ask. You don't seem to be
priming the PUMP so much as filling the hose. Now, some water pumps
can't hold a seal unless they are wet, so they have to be primed,
typically with about a coffee can full of water. If you actually
prime the pump itself, is it capable of sucking the air through???
Have you tried?

-v

On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 11:55:58 -0700, someone wrote:

My father used to prime the pump by pulling
the inlet end of the hose out of the lake, putting a ladder up against
a tree and tieing the hose to the tree, maybe 10 feet up and then
using a watering can to fill up the hose, and when it was full,
throwing the inlet back in the lake.

That tree is history this year.

So get a free standing ladder and use it without the tree. (Or would
you still not know where to tie the hose to?)

-v.

On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:28:01 -0400, someone wrote:

... just dig an 8' deep hole at the cottage....

"just"?

-v.

On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:28:01 -0400, someone wrote:

... just dig an 8' deep hole at the cottage....

"just"?

Your point.

Get someone with an ego up there for a week, and get
THEM to do it by claiming it can't be done...

You can get a submersible pump (that's what goes at the bottom of a well).
I had one at 200 feet down. It pumped the old H2O at about 15 gal per
minute, which was plenty fast.
www.gastonrealtor.net

spamersarevile wrote in message
...
I need some help on priming a water pump at the cottage. The pump
is located about 200 feet from the lake, maybe 6 feet higher in
elevation. Due to circumstances, it isn't possible to locate the
pump at the lake - I've looked into this - I know pumps are more
efficient at pushing water instead of pulling water - in this case,
it's just c'est la vie. My father used to prime the pump by pulling
the inlet end of the hose out of the lake, putting a ladder up against
a tree and tieing the hose to the tree, maybe 10 feet up and then
using a watering can to fill up the hose, and when it was full,
throwing the inlet back in the lake.

That tree is history this year.

Is it possible to fill up the hose at the pump end? There's a (screw
valve?) there (a plug that screws in just before the water line enters
the pump). Pore in the water through that valve into the hose and
then reclose that valve.

Problem is while there's plenty of water at the lake, there ain't any
200 feet away and that means schlepping maybe 20 watering cans one
at a time to the pump and instead of filling up the hose relatively
quickly, I'd be doing it gradually, over say 1 hour. Won't some/all
of that water simply run back into the lake? I could maybe get a
cart and lugg more water at one time, but it'd still take 3 or 4 trips
and maybe 20 minutes.

Is there some way of sucking the air out of the water hose. If the
inlet is in the lake, wouldn't the water then rise in the hose as the
air is vacated?

Every spring it's been a lot of work to get the pump working. It's
not the pump itself, just the distance involved and the impossibility
of situating the pump at the lakes' edge.

Mike

spamersarevile wrote in message
...
I need some help on priming a water pump at the cottage. The
pump
is located about 200 feet from the lake, maybe 6 feet higher in
elevation. Due to circumstances, it isn't possible to locate
the
pump at the lake - I've looked into this - I know pumps are
more
efficient at pushing water instead of pulling water - in this
case,
it's just c'est la vie. My father used to prime the pump by
pulling
the inlet end of the hose out of the lake, putting a ladder up
against
a tree and tieing the hose to the tree, maybe 10 feet up and
then
using a watering can to fill up the hose, and when it was full,
throwing the inlet back in the lake.

That tree is history this year.

Is it possible to fill up the hose at the pump end? There's a
(screw
valve?) there (a plug that screws in just before the water line
enters
the pump). Pore in the water through that valve into the hose
and
then reclose that valve.

A small vacume pump could be hooked to the pump plumbing to suck
the air out of the system. Or a sump pump could to used at the
lake, either using a battery or extension cord, to fill the hose
the old way with no ladder.

Would a shop vac suck hard enough to raise the water?

Bob

On 4/28/04 1:55 PM, in article ,
"spamersarevile" spamersarevile wrote:

I need some help on priming a water pump at the cottage. The pump
is located about 200 feet from the lake, maybe 6 feet higher in
elevation. Due to circumstances, it isn't possible to locate the
pump at the lake - I've looked into this - I know pumps are more
efficient at pushing water instead of pulling water - in this case,
it's just c'est la vie. My father used to prime the pump by pulling
the inlet end of the hose out of the lake, putting a ladder up against
a tree and tieing the hose to the tree, maybe 10 feet up and then
using a watering can to fill up the hose, and when it was full,
throwing the inlet back in the lake.


To add to the vacuum pump suggestion:

Irrigation river/pond pumps had to be primed to start. They usually had
a 4" inlet. There was a device that could be added to a non diesel engine
that would use the engine's vacuum to prime the pump. I know they were used
on Berkeley brand pumps but don't remember much else about them. That might
be one option.
I had a pump for a drill once that I think was self priming. It fit in
the drill chuck and was made to hook to garden hoses.

Dean



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Another possibility is to install a hand operated "pitcher" pump in a tee
with a valve at the pump outlet. Pour a little water in the hand pump and it
will pull the water up through the pump. When it starts flowing, close the
valve and start your electric pump.
Don Young
spamersarevile wrote in message
...
I need some help on priming a water pump at the cottage. The pump
is located about 200 feet from the lake, maybe 6 feet higher in
elevation. Due to circumstances, it isn't possible to locate the
pump at the lake - I've looked into this - I know pumps are more
efficient at pushing water instead of pulling water - in this case,
it's just c'est la vie. My father used to prime the pump by pulling
the inlet end of the hose out of the lake, putting a ladder up against
a tree and tieing the hose to the tree, maybe 10 feet up and then
using a watering can to fill up the hose, and when it was full,
throwing the inlet back in the lake.

That tree is history this year.

Is it possible to fill up the hose at the pump end? There's a (screw
valve?) there (a plug that screws in just before the water line enters
the pump). Pore in the water through that valve into the hose and
then reclose that valve.

Problem is while there's plenty of water at the lake, there ain't any
200 feet away and that means schlepping maybe 20 watering cans one
at a time to the pump and instead of filling up the hose relatively
quickly, I'd be doing it gradually, over say 1 hour. Won't some/all
of that water simply run back into the lake? I could maybe get a
cart and lugg more water at one time, but it'd still take 3 or 4 trips
and maybe 20 minutes.

Is there some way of sucking the air out of the water hose. If the
inlet is in the lake, wouldn't the water then rise in the hose as the
air is vacated?

Every spring it's been a lot of work to get the pump working. It's
not the pump itself, just the distance involved and the impossibility
of situating the pump at the lakes' edge.

Mike

In article , spamersarevile
(spamersarevile) says...

Problem is while there's plenty of water at the lake, there ain't any
200 feet away and that means schlepping maybe 20 watering cans one
at a time to the pump and instead of filling up the hose relatively
quickly, I'd be doing it gradually, over say 1 hour. Won't some/all
of that water simply run back into the lake?

Put a foot valve on the suction, or it will ALL run back into the lake.
T a ball valve into the line next to the foot valve if you need to drain
the line for the winter.

I could maybe get a
cart and lugg more water at one time, but it'd still take 3 or 4 trips
and maybe 20 minutes.

There are self-priming pumps that will suck air until the water gets
there. I don't know how long they run, they are designed to self-prime
at a very low head, and need water in the pump to do their thing.

When I was a kid, we used to prime an irrigation pump with a hand
suction pump. We would just pump like crazy for a few minutes, then
kick the pump on when the water got there. It had a 6" suction on it,
so we were moving a lot of air. It was a diaphragm pump.


--
http://home.teleport.com/~larryc

Don Young wrote:

Another possibility is to install a hand operated "pitcher" pump in a tee
with a valve at the pump outlet. Pour a little water in the hand pump and it
will pull the water up through the pump. When it starts flowing, close the
valve and start your electric pump.
Don Young


Won't air leaking through the electric pump break the vacuum and keep
the pitcher pump from working? (The valve needs to be between the tee
and the electric pump, not between the tee and the hand pump.)
Otherwise, I like this idea because the pitcher pump can get the water
if you need to prime the centrifugal pump.

-Bob

On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:28:01 -0400, "
wrote:




If you're on dirt, just dig an 8' deep hole at the cottage, and run
an inlet pipe to the lake, and pump from the "well". If you're
on rock, put a backflow valve at the lake end, with a hose-bib
toward the cottage. Use a hand pump through the hose-bib
to fill the pipe. Or replace the impeller pump with a piston-type
that will suck air and water both.

Why is it "impossible" to put the pump at the lake-edge?


The cottage is on a whole lot of rock - maybe 1 foot of soil in
places, if I look really closely. Every spring when the ice breaks
up, that part of the lake is exposed to the west - ice piles up and it
would damage anything located too closely to the lake shore.
It's somebody else's lake shore lot and granting access to their lot
is about as far as it goes, plus installing power there would be
difficult. Someone else (Thanks!) mentioned a step ladder. If I can
get a higher stepladder than what I've got, I might try that, on a non
windy day, but it's a bit unlevel at the lakeshore, and it's solid
rock.

Mike

On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:03:47 -0500, "TURTLE"
wrote:


First you need a simple fix to stop all this work in the first place.
Install a check valve at the hose that goes into the lake to
not let the water back out of the 200 foot line and it will stay primed
always. if it will not stay primed, You have a leak in the
200 foot line and find the leak and fix it. $7.00 could save all this work.

TURTLE


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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Thanks - and also to everyone else that mentioned this!

I'm a klutz with most things mechanical/electrical and I've only
observed how my father got the pump going in the spring. Don't think
will be able to get the pump going this weekend - looks like some cold
weather, but it should be a go next weekend. The ice is now all gone
from the lake. Man, is that a pain in the butt (well, cold breeze,
at least) using the outhouse at this time of year!

Mike

On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 11:15:13 -0700, someone wrote:


The cottage is on a whole lot of rock - maybe 1 foot of soil in
places, if I look really closely.

There goes that suggestion to "just" dig an 8 foot hole!

If I can
get a higher stepladder than what I've got, I might try that, on a non
windy day, but it's a bit unlevel at the lakeshore, and it's solid
rock.

The solid rock is GOOD. A ladder on a soft surface is what is bad.
You can buy adjustable extension feet that go on either side of a
ladder leg, or for once a year you could shim it with boards, eh?

We have the usual 6 foot stepladder, and then we have one that is
about 11 foot (so you can stand at the 9 foot level) so you can indeed
get what you need, ladderwise.

-v.

The pitcher pump would go on a tee at the OUTLET of the electric pump and
there would have to be a valve at the pitcher pump and another valve
somewhere at the output end of the tee. Close output valve, open pitcher
pump valve and pump until water is pulled through both pumps. Close pitcher
pump valve, open output valve and turn on electric pump. Worked good on my
irrigation pump.
Don Young
"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
Don Young wrote:

Another possibility is to install a hand operated "pitcher" pump in a
tee
with a valve at the pump outlet. Pour a little water in the hand pump
and it
will pull the water up through the pump. When it starts flowing, close
the
valve and start your electric pump.
Don Young


Won't air leaking through the electric pump break the vacuum and keep
the pitcher pump from working? (The valve needs to be between the tee
and the electric pump, not between the tee and the hand pump.)
Otherwise, I like this idea because the pitcher pump can get the water
if you need to prime the centrifugal pump.

-Bob

spamersarevile wrote:
I need some help on priming a water pump at the cottage. The pump
is located about 200 feet from the lake, maybe 6 feet higher in
elevation. Due to circumstances, it isn't possible to locate the
pump at the lake - I've looked into this - I know pumps are more
efficient at pushing water instead of pulling water - in this case,
it's just c'est la vie. My father used to prime the pump by pulling
the inlet end of the hose out of the lake, putting a ladder up against
a tree and tieing the hose to the tree, maybe 10 feet up and then
using a watering can to fill up the hose, and when it was full,
throwing the inlet back in the lake.

That tree is history this year.

Is it possible to fill up the hose at the pump end? There's a (screw
valve?) there (a plug that screws in just before the water line enters
the pump). Pore in the water through that valve into the hose and
then reclose that valve.

Problem is while there's plenty of water at the lake, there ain't any
200 feet away and that means schlepping maybe 20 watering cans one
at a time to the pump and instead of filling up the hose relatively
quickly, I'd be doing it gradually, over say 1 hour. Won't some/all
of that water simply run back into the lake? I could maybe get a
cart and lugg more water at one time, but it'd still take 3 or 4 trips
and maybe 20 minutes.

Is there some way of sucking the air out of the water hose. If the
inlet is in the lake, wouldn't the water then rise in the hose as the
air is vacated?

Every spring it's been a lot of work to get the pump working. It's
not the pump itself, just the distance involved and the impossibility
of situating the pump at the lakes' edge.

Mike

Option one- put a check valve in the pond on the end of the suction line
and only prime the pump once.
Option 2- make a hand pump to suck the air out as you mentioned and draw
the water up.