[Dean Hoffman[_13_]]

The discounter Target had their site hacked. Something like forty
million debit and credit accounts could be affected.
Article he http://tinyurl.com/mgv8pwe

[[email protected]]

On Thu, 19 Dec 2013 20:07:45 -0600, Dean Hoffman
" wrote:


The discounter Target had their site hacked. Something like forty
million debit and credit accounts could be affected.
Article he http://tinyurl.com/mgv8pwe

AIUI, they got the PINs to go with the account numbers. That could
really be bad for a lot of people.

[Mark Lloyd[_11_]]

On 12/19/2013 08:07 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

The discounter Target had their site hacked. Something like forty
million debit and credit accounts could be affected.
Article he http://tinyurl.com/mgv8pwe

Maybe it's a good thing I forgot to go there this season.

--
5 days until The winter celebration (Wednesday December 25, 2013 12:00
AM for 1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us

"Explaining the unknown by means of the unobservable is always a
perilous business."

[Oren[_2_]]

On Thu, 19 Dec 2013 23:45:17 -0500, wrote:

AIUI, they got the PINs to go with the account numbers. That could
really be bad for a lot of people.

....and the 3 or 4 digit security numbers of the cards.

Expert spoke the other day:

Video: (Cybersecurity analyst breaks down how it happened)

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/shepard-smith/index.html#/v/2951632445001

[Wes Groleau[_2_]]

On 12-20-2013, 21:14, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 19 Dec 2013 23:45:17 -0500, wrote:

AIUI, they got the PINs to go with the account numbers. That could
really be bad for a lot of people.

...and the 3 or 4 digit security numbers of the cards.

Expert spoke the other day:

Video: (Cybersecurity analyst breaks down how it happened)

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/shepard-smith/index.html#/v/2951632445001

Neither expert said anything about how it happened.

The second one's body language is not from my culture.

I was halfway expecting her to say "gag me with a spoon"

And the regular anchor took pains to ensure she didn't upstage him.

OK, done with my grinching for this hour.
Tune in again tomorrow for more of the same.

--
Wes Groleau

Don't get even €” get odd!

[Lee B]

On 12/20/2013 9:14 PM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 19 Dec 2013 23:45:17 -0500, wrote:

AIUI, they got the PINs to go with the account numbers. That could
really be bad for a lot of people.

...and the 3 or 4 digit security numbers of the cards.

Expert spoke the other day:

Video: (Cybersecurity analyst breaks down how it happened)

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/shepard-smith/index.html#/v/2951632445001


Interesting article at
http://techcrunch.com/2013/12/20/the...target-reacts/
(and also an interesting link inside about a cyber security guy's
description of buying some of the stolen info and how they knew about
the breach before Target went public).

They said another problem is that the problem might not be immediately
apparent to the card owners, that it could show up months or more later
as the info is sold online.

I shopped at Target several times during that time frame, so I went to
my bank to ask what to do. They ordered me a new check card. (Hmm,
didn't take into account that they would immediately disable the current
card and it would take the new one several days to arrive... guess I'll
see if the store cashiers can still deal with checks, LOL).
And I finally dragged myself into the current century and let the bank
guy help me set up online banking with text alerts.

BTW, just now caught another news story - security guy flat out
recommends that people who shopped at Target in that time frame get a
new card, esp if it's a bank debit card.

[DerbyDad03]

Lee B wrote:
On 12/20/2013 9:14 PM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 19 Dec 2013 23:45:17 -0500, wrote:

AIUI, they got the PINs to go with the account numbers. That could
really be bad for a lot of people.

...and the 3 or 4 digit security numbers of the cards.

Expert spoke the other day:

Video: (Cybersecurity analyst breaks down how it happened)

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/shepard-smith/index.html#/v/2951632445001


Interesting article at
http://techcrunch.com/2013/12/20/the...target-reacts/
(and also an interesting link inside about a cyber security guy's
description of buying some of the stolen info and how they knew about the
breach before Target went public).

They said another problem is that the problem might not be immediately
apparent to the card owners, that it could show up months or more later
as the info is sold online.

I shopped at Target several times during that time frame, so I went to my
bank to ask what to do. They ordered me a new check card. (Hmm, didn't
take into account that they would immediately disable the current card
and it would take the new one several days to arrive... guess I'll see if
the store cashiers can still deal with checks, LOL).
And I finally dragged myself into the current century and let the bank
guy help me set up online banking with text alerts.

BTW, just now caught another news story - security guy flat out
recommends that people who shopped at Target in that time frame get a new
card, esp if it's a bank debit card.

Yet other articles - and my bank - state that there is no indication that
debit card PIN numbers were captured. Originally the news was that every
number related to the cards was captured, but now things are changing. This
is one of those cases where the news is flying in fast and furious and it's
hard to separate the wheat from the chaff. Of course, replacing the card is
still the safest bet, but changing the pin is at least the minimum that
should be done. I've already done that. I also ordered a new card, but I
used the "broken card" path, not the "stolen card" path, so my card, with
the new pin, will work until the new one shows up.

Even before the hacking news broke, a co-worker got a call from Discover
that they were seeing strange activity on his card. All of the transactions
were rejected at the POS, but they called him anyway. His wife had shopped
at Target during the hacking period, so they think it is related, but it's
hard to be absolutely sure. The Discover agent wasn't able to - or
wouldn't - tell him why the transactions were rejected at the POS, but
since there was something like 6 of them at various locations, it raised a
flag and they called him. They will be issuing a new card.

[Ralph Mowery]

"Dean Hoffman" " wrote in message
...

The discounter Target had their site hacked. Something like forty
million debit and credit accounts could be affected.
Article he http://tinyurl.com/mgv8pwe

My son had his debit card number hacked from Target. Wiped out about $ 600
from his account. I am not sure but thought I told him not to have a debit
card, but have a credit card. While I think he will get his money back, it
is going to take a couple of weeks. I loaned him some money so Christmas
would not be spoiled for him.

If he had a credit account, they could just take off the charge or send it
back to the store. Not so with a stupid debit card.

The daughter in law caught this empting of the account about an hour after
it hapened.

Spent about $ 50,000 to send him to school where he took business courses.
He is a senor annalist for softwear for a company and still let this hapen
to him.





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[[email protected]]

On Sat, 21 Dec 2013 16:44:38 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


"Dean Hoffman" " wrote in message
...

The discounter Target had their site hacked. Something like forty
million debit and credit accounts could be affected.
Article he http://tinyurl.com/mgv8pwe

My son had his debit card number hacked from Target. Wiped out about $ 600
from his account. I am not sure but thought I told him not to have a debit
card, but have a credit card. While I think he will get his money back, it
is going to take a couple of weeks. I loaned him some money so Christmas
would not be spoiled for him.

It really doesn't matter all that much. If the PIN isn't compromised
(i.e. the perp used it as a credit transaction), there really is no
difference. Contact the bank and they'll take care of it through
Visa, or whomever.

If he had a credit account, they could just take off the charge or send it
back to the store. Not so with a stupid debit card.

Not true. As long as the transaction went through the credit system,
it's covered just as a credit card would be. If he compromised the
PIN, he has to collect from his bank. A decent bank won't give you
any trouble but don't count on the megabanks.

The daughter in law caught this empting of the account about an hour after
it hapened.

Spent about $ 50,000 to send him to school where he took business courses.
He is a senor annalist for softwear for a company and still let this hapen
to him.

What's that got to do with it? He didn't "let" anything happen to
him.


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Oh, good grief!

[Lee B]

On 12/21/2013 2:29 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Lee B wrote:
On 12/20/2013 9:14 PM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 19 Dec 2013 23:45:17 -0500, wrote:

AIUI, they got the PINs to go with the account numbers. That could
really be bad for a lot of people.

...and the 3 or 4 digit security numbers of the cards.

Expert spoke the other day:

Video: (Cybersecurity analyst breaks down how it happened)

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/shepard-smith/index.html#/v/2951632445001


Interesting article at
http://techcrunch.com/2013/12/20/the...target-reacts/
(and also an interesting link inside about a cyber security guy's
description of buying some of the stolen info and how they knew about the
breach before Target went public).

They said another problem is that the problem might not be immediately
apparent to the card owners, that it could show up months or more later
as the info is sold online.

I shopped at Target several times during that time frame, so I went to my
bank to ask what to do. They ordered me a new check card. (Hmm, didn't
take into account that they would immediately disable the current card
and it would take the new one several days to arrive... guess I'll see if
the store cashiers can still deal with checks, LOL).
And I finally dragged myself into the current century and let the bank
guy help me set up online banking with text alerts.

BTW, just now caught another news story - security guy flat out
recommends that people who shopped at Target in that time frame get a new
card, esp if it's a bank debit card.

Yet other articles - and my bank - state that there is no indication that
debit card PIN numbers were captured. Originally the news was that every
number related to the cards was captured, but now things are changing. This
is one of those cases where the news is flying in fast and furious and it's
hard to separate the wheat from the chaff. Of course, replacing the card is
still the safest bet, but changing the pin is at least the minimum that
should be done. I've already done that. I also ordered a new card, but I
used the "broken card" path, not the "stolen card" path, so my card, with
the new pin, will work until the new one shows up.

Even before the hacking news broke, a co-worker got a call from Discover
that they were seeing strange activity on his card. All of the transactions
were rejected at the POS, but they called him anyway. His wife had shopped
at Target during the hacking period, so they think it is related, but it's
hard to be absolutely sure. The Discover agent wasn't able to - or
wouldn't - tell him why the transactions were rejected at the POS, but
since there was something like 6 of them at various locations, it raised a
flag and they called him. They will be issuing a new card.

It was partially the changing news stories that prompted me to get the
new card. That and the fact that I'm a worrier, and would obsess over
the "what if's". Plus since one of the reports said they hacked the
database (as opposed to just grabbing data as it was swiped), it could
open the possibility about the PINs. Not saying they were compromised,
just that I'd seen one of the talking heads speculating that they
couldn't say that they weren't.

In addition to the regular bank check card, I also have a separate debit
"works as a cc" card from an entirely different bank. I'd set that up
when I started doing online shopping and don't keep much money in there
(less to worry about); several months ago I added a Target debit card to
that account to take advantage of the 5% discount. The ironic thing is
that I *didn't* use the Target debit card during that time frame, so at
least I have that available while I await the new card.

Did you see the article
http://krebsonsecurity.com/2013/12/c...nd-markets/(it
was the one linked in the other article). There is a screenshot of the
online site that sells the stolen card info. How many cards are for sale
and the owners don't even know it. OK, yeah, I realize that goes on all
the time, but seeing it set up like a "normal" online store creeped me out.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 12/21/2013 4:44 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:


My son had his debit card number hacked from Target. Wiped out about $ 600
from his account. I am not sure but thought I told him not to have a debit
card, but have a credit card. While I think he will get his money back, it
is going to take a couple of weeks. I loaned him some money so Christmas
would not be spoiled for him.

He needs a better bank. I have the same protection with my DC as my CC.
Had the card stolen and used. My money was back in the next day.

[bob haller]

On Saturday, December 21, 2013 11:27:13 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 12/21/2013 4:44 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:





My son had his debit card number hacked from Target. Wiped out about $ 600

from his account. I am not sure but thought I told him not to have a debit

card, but have a credit card. While I think he will get his money back, it

is going to take a couple of weeks. I loaned him some money so Christmas

would not be spoiled for him.



He needs a better bank. I have the same protection with my DC as my CC.

Had the card stolen and used. My money was back in the next day.

me too my wife at the time dropped her debit card at a gas station, someone found and used it for 300 bucks. the system caught the fradulent use and shut down the card. bank called her and money back in a day or two.

I am now much better off divorced

[[email protected]]

On Sat, 21 Dec 2013 23:27:13 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 12/21/2013 4:44 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:


My son had his debit card number hacked from Target. Wiped out about $ 600
from his account. I am not sure but thought I told him not to have a debit
card, but have a credit card. While I think he will get his money back, it
is going to take a couple of weeks. I loaned him some money so Christmas
would not be spoiled for him.

He needs a better bank. I have the same protection with my DC as my CC.
Had the card stolen and used. My money was back in the next day.

Without the PIN, right? Without the PIN they use the CC (VISA or MC,
normally) network. The rules for the CC networks are the same whether
it's a CC or DC. The rules are different for DC used without pins
(debit networks). The chances that the bank will cover it is still
very good. It is sometimes more difficult to deal with banks than
VISA or MC, though.

I had my debit card compromised by Horror Fright a couple of months
ago. Since they didn't get the PIN, it was a simple matter of having
the bank reverse the charge from VISA. They said that it would have
been significantly more difficult if it had been their network. I try
to not use the PIN at all, anymore.

Hopefully, the outcome will be better security, but I doubt it. No
one seems to consider it to be a priority.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 12/22/2013 12:31 AM, wrote:


He needs a better bank. I have the same protection with my DC as my CC.
Had the card stolen and used. My money was back in the next day.

Without the PIN, right? Without the PIN they use the CC (VISA or MC,
normally) network. The rules for the CC networks are the same whether
it's a CC or DC. The rules are different for DC used without pins
(debit networks). The chances that the bank will cover it is still
very good. It is sometimes more difficult to deal with banks than
VISA or MC, though.

I had my debit card compromised by Horror Fright a couple of months
ago. Since they didn't get the PIN, it was a simple matter of having
the bank reverse the charge from VISA. They said that it would have
been significantly more difficult if it had been their network. I try
to not use the PIN at all, anymore.

Hopefully, the outcome will be better security, but I doubt it. No
one seems to consider it to be a priority.

Without the PIN. The bank does say thry cover you in any case, but I
can see why they would check out a PIN transaction. I imagine many of
them are family members sneaking off with mom's card.

[Ralph Mowery]

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 12/21/2013 4:44 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:


My son had his debit card number hacked from Target. Wiped out about $
600
from his account. I am not sure but thought I told him not to have a
debit
card, but have a credit card. While I think he will get his money back,
it
is going to take a couple of weeks. I loaned him some money so Christmas
would not be spoiled for him.

He needs a better bank. I have the same protection with my DC as my CC.
Had the card stolen and used. My money was back in the next day.

Maybe he does need a beter bank.

I don't know the differance if any for the rules of a debit card vers credit
card. Just that he was told if it was a CC he could get his charge taken
off right a way but for the debit card he used it would take about 2 weeks.

One thing I noticed that a DC can somehow hold more back than you actually
use. That is if you buy $ 10 worth of stuff , they might put a $ 100 hold
on your money. Do that at several places in one day and you are out of
money. Not really out, but just lots of it on hold.

I'll still stick to my credit card that gives me a rebate.




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[Kurt Ullman]

In article ,
"Ralph Mowery" wrote:


One thing I noticed that a DC can somehow hold more back than you actually
use. That is if you buy $ 10 worth of stuff , they might put a $ 100 hold
on your money. Do that at several places in one day and you are out of
money. Not really out, but just lots of it on hold.

I'll still stick to my credit card that gives me a rebate.



Most gas stations do that for $75, although they all seem to have
sticker on the pump (that can actually be seen) that indicate it.
--
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive,
but what they conceal is vital."
-- Aaron Levenstein

[Dean Hoffman[_13_]]

On 12/22/13 9:09 AM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
"Ralph Mowery" wrote:


One thing I noticed that a DC can somehow hold more back than you actually
use. That is if you buy $ 10 worth of stuff , they might put a $ 100 hold
on your money. Do that at several places in one day and you are out of
money. Not really out, but just lots of it on hold.

I'll still stick to my credit card that gives me a rebate.



Most gas stations do that for $75, although they all seem to have
sticker on the pump (that can actually be seen) that indicate it.

Some of the gas stations require one to type in the zip code of the
card's owner. I noticed it first in Missouri.

[Ralph Mowery]

"Dean Hoffman" " wrote in message
news:l97174$lp6
Some of the gas stations require one to type in the zip code of the
card's owner. I noticed it first in Missouri.

That has been going on for sometime in North Carolina at some stations.

Not sure what good it does, but a time or two that I hit the wrong numbers,
I had to try again.



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[Kurt Ullman]

In article ,
"Ralph Mowery" wrote:

"Dean Hoffman" " wrote in message
news:l97174$lp6
Some of the gas stations require one to type in the zip code of the
card's owner. I noticed it first in Missouri.

That has been going on for sometime in North Carolina at some stations.

Not sure what good it does, but a time or two that I hit the wrong numbers,
I had to try again.


That part about hitting the wrong numbers and try again should be an
indicator of the good it does. Cloned cards are harder to use under
these circumstances.
--
³Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive,
but what they conceal is vital.²
‹ Aaron Levenstein

[DerbyDad03]

Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
"Ralph Mowery" wrote:


One thing I noticed that a DC can somehow hold more back than you actually
use. That is if you buy $ 10 worth of stuff , they might put a $ 100 hold
on your money. Do that at several places in one day and you are out of
money. Not really out, but just lots of it on hold.

I'll still stick to my credit card that gives me a rebate.



Most gas stations do that for $75, although they all seem to have
sticker on the pump (that can actually be seen) that indicate it.

I found a gas station near me that has the cheapest gas in the area once
the 10 cent cash discount is applied. The thing is, the pumps consider a
debit card to be cash, so I don't have to have cash or go inside. Insert
debit card, enter pin, and the pump sets itself to the cash price.

Sweet!

[Kurt Ullman]

In article
,
DerbyDad03 wrote:

K

I found a gas station near me that has the cheapest gas in the area once
the 10 cent cash discount is applied. The thing is, the pumps consider a
debit card to be cash, so I don't have to have cash or go inside. Insert
debit card, enter pin, and the pump sets itself to the cash price.

Sweet!

Wonder how long it will take for someone to notice since DC have fees
attached.
--
€œStatistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive,
but what they conceal is vital.€�
€” Aaron Levenstein

[DerbyDad03]

Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article
,
DerbyDad03 wrote:

K

I found a gas station near me that has the cheapest gas in the area once
the 10 cent cash discount is applied. The thing is, the pumps consider a
debit card to be cash, so I don't have to have cash or go inside. Insert
debit card, enter pin, and the pump sets itself to the cash price.

Sweet!

Wonder how long it will take for someone to notice since DC have fees
attached.

I've been getting gas there for over 6 months, so who knows.

You would think that with any type of rudimentary accounting, they would
have figured it out by now. Unless I'm one of very few people with know
about it, the numbers at the end of the day wouldn't add up. When they
compare the amount of gas sold at the cash price to the amount of gas
related cash purchases at the counter, I'd think there would be a big
discrepancy.

[Roy]

On Thursday, December 19, 2013 7:07:45 PM UTC-7, Dean Hoffman wrote:
The discounter Target had their site hacked. Something like forty

million debit and credit accounts could be affected.

Article he http://tinyurl.com/mgv8pwe

Thank gawd that I have never shopped at TARGET and most
likely will never do so.

[Ralph Mowery]

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message You would think that
with any type of rudimentary accounting, they would
have figured it out by now. Unless I'm one of very few people with know
about it, the numbers at the end of the day wouldn't add up. When they
compare the amount of gas sold at the cash price to the amount of gas
related cash purchases at the counter, I'd think there would be a big
discrepancy.

I don't know what the charges are for debit cards as I do not use them.

A station where I have bought gas for many years starting charging about 6
cents more per gallon for credit cards, but not for debit cards. I changed
stations.



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[Ed Pawlowski]

On 12/22/2013 9:43 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:




I don't know the differance if any for the rules of a debit card vers credit
card. Just that he was told if it was a CC he could get his charge taken
off right a way but for the debit card he used it would take about 2 weeks.

I only know what my bank does with a Master Card tagged DC. They apply
the same rules.

One thing I noticed that a DC can somehow hold more back than you actually
use. That is if you buy $ 10 worth of stuff , they might put a $ 100 hold
on your money. Do that at several places in one day and you are out of
money. Not really out, but just lots of it on hold.

My bank never holds anything back. Some cards will put some money on
hold for pay at the pump for gas. Some restaurants will put an extra
20% on hold so you can add a tip and be covered. As I said, maybe you
need a better bank.


I'll still stick to my credit card that gives me a rebate.
Whatever works for you.

Given the problems with both DC and CC information being stolen, I now
use cash for anything less than $200 just to minimize the number of
transactions.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 12/22/2013 11:15 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
"Dean Hoffman" " wrote in message
news:l97174$lp6
Some of the gas stations require one to type in the zip code of the
card's owner. I noticed it first in Missouri.

That has been going on for sometime in North Carolina at some stations.

Not sure what good it does, but a time or two that I hit the wrong numbers,
I had to try again.

Adds a layer of security. If you stole my card and don't know where I
live, the charge will be refused.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 12/22/2013 6:34 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message You would think that
with any type of rudimentary accounting, they would
have figured it out by now. Unless I'm one of very few people with know
about it, the numbers at the end of the day wouldn't add up. When they
compare the amount of gas sold at the cash price to the amount of gas
related cash purchases at the counter, I'd think there would be a big
discrepancy.

I don't know what the charges are for debit cards as I do not use them.

A station where I have bought gas for many years starting charging about 6
cents more per gallon for credit cards, but not for debit cards. I changed
stations.

They should discount for cash if the CC cost was built in. The cost for
the CC is about six cents. Everyone likes the convenience of using
plastic, but we don't want to see the real cost of using them. I wonder
how banks build them big home offices.

[Wes Groleau[_2_]]

On 12-21-2013, 16:44, Ralph Mowery wrote:
My son had his debit card number hacked from Target. Wiped out about $ 600
from his account. I am not sure but thought I told him not to have a debit
card, but have a credit card. While I think he will get his money back, it
is going to take a couple of weeks. I loaned him some money so Christmas
would not be spoiled for him.

If he had a credit account, they could just take off the charge or send it
back to the store. Not so with a stupid debit card.

My debit card says "Visa" on it. One of the conditions for using the
name, I'm told is that the legitimate user is not liable for ANY fraud.
(USA law allows them to stick you with the first fifty bucks.

But my credit union goes even better. When I got cheated, I filled out
a form and got the money back in a couple of days.

Spent about $ 50,000 to send him to school where he took business courses.
He is a senor annalist for softwear for a company and still let this hapen
to him.

I know a guy one semester away from a Computer Science degree who wanted
to turn off the firewall so he could play some game.

--
Wes Groleau

Nobody believes a theoretical analysis €” except the guy who did it.
Everybody believes an experimental analysis €” except the guy who did it.
€” Unknown

[Wes Groleau[_2_]]

On 12-22-2013, 08:43, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Without the PIN. The bank does say thry cover you in any case, but I
can see why they would check out a PIN transaction. I imagine many of
them are family members sneaking off with mom's card.

My children are (I think) quite honest.
But I still won't tell them any password or PIN.

--
Wes Groleau

In any formula, constants (especially those obtained
from handbooks) are to be treated as variables.

[Wes Groleau[_2_]]

On 12-22-2013, 12:45, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article
,
DerbyDad03 wrote:

K

I found a gas station near me that has the cheapest gas in the area once
the 10 cent cash discount is applied. The thing is, the pumps consider a
debit card to be cash, so I don't have to have cash or go inside. Insert
debit card, enter pin, and the pump sets itself to the cash price.

Sweet!

Wonder how long it will take for someone to notice since DC have fees
attached.

He used a PIN. Direct to the bank; no fees to the station.
Using it like a credit card results in the CC processing fee.
The bank likes that, because they get a portion of it.
(Your "rewards" rebate comes out of that portion.)

--
Wes Groleau

Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns
it, and finds himself no wiser than before ... He is full of
murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having
come by their ignorance the hard way.
€” Kurt Vonnegut

[Wes Groleau[_2_]]

On 12-22-2013, 21:38, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
The cost for the CC is about six cents.

Three to five percent, depending on the card.
Some of them also add a per-transaction flat fee.

--
Wes Groleau

There are some ideas so wrong that only a
very intelligent person could believe in them.
€” George Orwell

[Wes Groleau[_2_]]

On 12-22-2013, 21:09, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Some restaurants will put an extra 20% on hold so you can add a tip and
be covered.

And the extra vanishes as soon as they go back and type in the amount
you actually wrote.

--
Wes Groleau

Alive and Well
http://freepages.religions.rootsweb.com/~wgroleau/

[The Daring Dufas[_8_]]

On 12/23/2013 1:02 AM, Wes Groleau wrote:
On 12-22-2013, 12:45, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article
,
DerbyDad03 wrote:

K

I found a gas station near me that has the cheapest gas in the
area once the 10 cent cash discount is applied. The thing is, the
pumps consider a debit card to be cash, so I don't have to have
cash or go inside. Insert debit card, enter pin, and the pump
sets itself to the cash price.

Sweet!

Wonder how long it will take for someone to notice since DC have
fees attached.

He used a PIN. Direct to the bank; no fees to the station. Using it
like a credit card results in the CC processing fee. The bank likes
that, because they get a portion of it. (Your "rewards" rebate comes
out of that portion.)


Aldi will not process credit cards, they will only let you use a debit
card or the debit function of your bank card. I use my bank card all the
time as a credit card, singing a sales receipt rather than using a PIN
number. If someone stole my bank card, they would have to use it as a
credit card until it was declined or turned off. ^_^

TDD

[SMS]

On 12/19/2013 6:07 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

The discounter Target had their site hacked. Something like forty
million debit and credit accounts could be affected.
Article he http://tinyurl.com/mgv8pwe

What's needed is legislation to force credit and debit card issuers in
the United States to adopt the technology used in the rest of the world,
chips embedded in the card. A few credit card issuers in the U.S. will
provide these cards upon request but they're only for use in countries
where the merchants (and automated machines) have the readers.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/12/hacked-why-target-became-a-target-101447.html

The banks and retailers will not act in the best interest of consumers
on their own. Legislation is necessary.

[Ralph Mowery]

"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
Aldi will not process credit cards, they will only let you use a debit
card or the debit function of your bank card. I use my bank card all the
time as a credit card, singing a sales receipt rather than using a PIN
number. If someone stole my bank card, they would have to use it as a
credit card until it was declined or turned off. ^_^

I never go to Aldi, but if all they take is debit cards I would have to
leave the groceries at the store as I don't have a debit card.

I know several places that have a big sign on the door about not taking
cards of any kinds, but state there is a teller machine inside for cash.



---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

[DerbyDad03]

"Ralph Mowery" wrote:
"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
Aldi will not process credit cards, they will only let you use a debit
card or the debit function of your bank card. I use my bank card all the
time as a credit card, singing a sales receipt rather than using a PIN
number. If someone stole my bank card, they would have to use it as a
credit card until it was declined or turned off. ^_^

I never go to Aldi, but if all they take is debit cards I would have to
leave the groceries at the store as I don't have a debit card.

Aldi will take cash and debit cards, just not credit cards.

I know several places that have a big sign on the door about not taking
cards of any kinds, but state there is a teller machine inside for cash.

Typically those ATM's are the "generic" kind - not affiliated with any
specific bank - so the transaction fee (anywhere from $1 - $3) is paid by
the customer. In addition, it's typically the high priced convenience
stores, like at a gas station, that employ that technique. You pay higher
prices for each item, and then tack on another few dollars for the pleasure
of paying that higher price.

I'm sure the store gets a piece of that action so it's a good deal for
them, although they may lose some sales too. I'll drive down the road to
the next place instead of paying extra because they force me to pay cash.

[Daring Dufas TeaBillie on welfare]

On Thursday, December 19, 2013 8:07:45 PM UTC-6, Dean Hoffman wrote:
The discounter Target had their site hacked. Something like forty

million debit and credit accounts could be affected.


40million -- to put that in prospective - 1/6th of adults 18yo in America ;

[Daring Dufas TeaBillie on welfare]

Retailers get paid no matter what .. and the banks pass the losses on by hiking rates. AMERICANS ARE TOO LAZY TO ENTER A PIN.

[[email protected]]

On Sun, 22 Dec 2013 08:43:29 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 12/22/2013 12:31 AM, wrote:


He needs a better bank. I have the same protection with my DC as my CC.
Had the card stolen and used. My money was back in the next day.

Without the PIN, right? Without the PIN they use the CC (VISA or MC,
normally) network. The rules for the CC networks are the same whether
it's a CC or DC. The rules are different for DC used without pins
(debit networks). The chances that the bank will cover it is still
very good. It is sometimes more difficult to deal with banks than
VISA or MC, though.

I had my debit card compromised by Horror Fright a couple of months
ago. Since they didn't get the PIN, it was a simple matter of having
the bank reverse the charge from VISA. They said that it would have
been significantly more difficult if it had been their network. I try
to not use the PIN at all, anymore.

Hopefully, the outcome will be better security, but I doubt it. No
one seems to consider it to be a priority.

Without the PIN. The bank does say thry cover you in any case, but I
can see why they would check out a PIN transaction. I imagine many of
them are family members sneaking off with mom's card.

The non-PIN transactions are on VISA (or MC). The PIN transactions
are on them (and you). Of course they're going to check them out. How
they do this (and what they put you through) depends solely on the
bank.

[[email protected]]

On Sun, 22 Dec 2013 10:09:51 -0500, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

In article ,
"Ralph Mowery" wrote:


One thing I noticed that a DC can somehow hold more back than you actually
use. That is if you buy $ 10 worth of stuff , they might put a $ 100 hold
on your money. Do that at several places in one day and you are out of
money. Not really out, but just lots of it on hold.

I'll still stick to my credit card that gives me a rebate.



Most gas stations do that for $75, although they all seem to have
sticker on the pump (that can actually be seen) that indicate it.

I have seen a few who state that policy but far more who don't.

An interesting twist on that is even with a CC, a similar thing is
done. I've had a card rejected because one hold didn't clear the
system before the card was used again. This has happened to me a
couple of times, once particularly ****ed me off because we were
moving and driving both cars. I could fill one but not the other.
Anyway, the CC company told me that they usually clear in a few
minutes but it can take several hours for a transaction to clear.