I need to run my sump pump discharge to a drainage ditch along the
road. The discharge exits the house at 1.5' above ground, but the
grade is almost flat... it's 100' from the house to the drainage
ditch, and the ground itself only loses a few inches along the way
according to an excavator (measured to the bottom of the drainage
ditch).

I currently have a 4" black flex pipe just laying on the ground,
running from the house to the drainage ditch. It works OK (except in
the winter), but is not a permanent solution for many reasons.

Perhaps the obvious solution is to bury a drain pipe. The path of the
drain pipe will cross (and likely run parallel with) several
underground utilities including electric, phone, and cable - so
digging down several feet to avoid freezing is not an option.
Besides, I'd be leary of this approach anyways since the pump would
have to lift the water back up to ground level at the end of the run.

I've been told by an excavator to bury a 1.5" PVC pipe, just beneath
the surface, and try to maintain downhill or at least level for the
entire run. I would probably incorporate a vacuum breaker where the
pipe comes out of the house, to help gravity do its job, as well as
providing a secondary outlet connection for winter use or if the PVC
gets blocked.

Does this sound like a good approach, given the circumstances?

I'm concerned the PVC would freeze and break if it doesn't drain
completely. I'm also concerned about the pipe "heaving" up to the
surface as a result of freeze/thaw.

A neighbor says to bury 1.25" black flex hose a foot down, like he
did... but he has much more vertical drop than I do, and I'd think
flex hose would be more susceptible to having a lowspot than 10'
sections of PVC.

Any comments/suggestions are welcome. Note... this is in southern
ohio, with clay soil and a high water table if that makes any
difference.

thanks in advance!

I'm in Northern Wisconsin and we have a situation and a grading drop almost
the same as yours, only spread out over twice that distance. Our sump runs
regularly from thaw til August. It pumps ground water when the table gets
high, and very very occasionally, surface water. Part of the price you pay
for living by the river.

Anyway, we buried 3" PVC pipe. Part of it is flexible to make the bend
around from the back of the house. It's only 12" underground. It has never
frozen, even though our hard freeze is 4 -5 months long. Although the pitch
is minimal, it is a pitch! We rigged a "Y" formation of PVC at its outlet
at the house in case it ever froze due to a cold snap during its running
season. The "open" end of the Y is connected to a collapsible tube of
plastic, similar to those collapsible downspouts. If the main pipe were
ever to freeze or become blocked, it would unroll itself out into the yard
and flow down to the ditch naturally. We've tested it... and it really does
work.

The power of the 1/2 horse pump in the pit is enough to get that water up 8
feet to ground level and out to the ditch, about 200 feet away, with no
add'l help.

And I'm in Northern Wisconsin. In southern Ohio, I'd be even less concerned
with it freezing...how often does it run when the temp is below freezing?

-Oldy


"dakota" wrote in message
om...
I need to run my sump pump discharge to a drainage ditch along the
road. The discharge exits the house at 1.5' above ground, but the
grade is almost flat... it's 100' from the house to the drainage
ditch, and the ground itself only loses a few inches along the way
according to an excavator (measured to the bottom of the drainage
ditch).

I currently have a 4" black flex pipe just laying on the ground,
running from the house to the drainage ditch. It works OK (except in
the winter), but is not a permanent solution for many reasons.

Perhaps the obvious solution is to bury a drain pipe. The path of the
drain pipe will cross (and likely run parallel with) several
underground utilities including electric, phone, and cable - so
digging down several feet to avoid freezing is not an option.
Besides, I'd be leary of this approach anyways since the pump would
have to lift the water back up to ground level at the end of the run.

I've been told by an excavator to bury a 1.5" PVC pipe, just beneath
the surface, and try to maintain downhill or at least level for the
entire run. I would probably incorporate a vacuum breaker where the
pipe comes out of the house, to help gravity do its job, as well as
providing a secondary outlet connection for winter use or if the PVC
gets blocked.

Does this sound like a good approach, given the circumstances?

I'm concerned the PVC would freeze and break if it doesn't drain
completely. I'm also concerned about the pipe "heaving" up to the
surface as a result of freeze/thaw.

A neighbor says to bury 1.25" black flex hose a foot down, like he
did... but he has much more vertical drop than I do, and I'd think
flex hose would be more susceptible to having a lowspot than 10'
sections of PVC.

Any comments/suggestions are welcome. Note... this is in southern
ohio, with clay soil and a high water table if that makes any
difference.

thanks in advance!

I'm in central ohio, and my pipe is very similar to what you described its
only buried around 3 or 4 inches under the grass and dosent freeze, we get
ALOT of water pumped out during spring-fall (poorly built house in a
sub-division), but once the ground freezes water cant get down into basement
anyway unless you have a spring coming up under your basement floor. As
long as their is a little bit of a grade water should not stay in pipe and
will have all run out between pump last runs and ground gets around to
freezing down to where the pipe is in the winter.


"Oldylocks" no wrote in message ...
I'm in Northern Wisconsin and we have a situation and a grading drop
almost
the same as yours, only spread out over twice that distance. Our sump
runs
regularly from thaw til August. It pumps ground water when the table gets
high, and very very occasionally, surface water. Part of the price you pay
for living by the river.

Anyway, we buried 3" PVC pipe. Part of it is flexible to make the bend
around from the back of the house. It's only 12" underground. It has
never
frozen, even though our hard freeze is 4 -5 months long. Although the
pitch
is minimal, it is a pitch! We rigged a "Y" formation of PVC at its outlet
at the house in case it ever froze due to a cold snap during its running
season. The "open" end of the Y is connected to a collapsible tube of
plastic, similar to those collapsible downspouts. If the main pipe were
ever to freeze or become blocked, it would unroll itself out into the yard
and flow down to the ditch naturally. We've tested it... and it really
does
work.

The power of the 1/2 horse pump in the pit is enough to get that water up
8
feet to ground level and out to the ditch, about 200 feet away, with no
add'l help.

And I'm in Northern Wisconsin. In southern Ohio, I'd be even less
concerned
with it freezing...how often does it run when the temp is below freezing?

-Oldy


"dakota" wrote in message
om...
I need to run my sump pump discharge to a drainage ditch along the
road. The discharge exits the house at 1.5' above ground, but the
grade is almost flat... it's 100' from the house to the drainage
ditch, and the ground itself only loses a few inches along the way
according to an excavator (measured to the bottom of the drainage
ditch).

I currently have a 4" black flex pipe just laying on the ground,
running from the house to the drainage ditch. It works OK (except in
the winter), but is not a permanent solution for many reasons.

Perhaps the obvious solution is to bury a drain pipe. The path of the
drain pipe will cross (and likely run parallel with) several
underground utilities including electric, phone, and cable - so
digging down several feet to avoid freezing is not an option.
Besides, I'd be leary of this approach anyways since the pump would
have to lift the water back up to ground level at the end of the run.

I've been told by an excavator to bury a 1.5" PVC pipe, just beneath
the surface, and try to maintain downhill or at least level for the
entire run. I would probably incorporate a vacuum breaker where the
pipe comes out of the house, to help gravity do its job, as well as
providing a secondary outlet connection for winter use or if the PVC
gets blocked.

Does this sound like a good approach, given the circumstances?

I'm concerned the PVC would freeze and break if it doesn't drain
completely. I'm also concerned about the pipe "heaving" up to the
surface as a result of freeze/thaw.

A neighbor says to bury 1.25" black flex hose a foot down, like he
did... but he has much more vertical drop than I do, and I'd think
flex hose would be more susceptible to having a lowspot than 10'
sections of PVC.

Any comments/suggestions are welcome. Note... this is in southern
ohio, with clay soil and a high water table if that makes any
difference.

thanks in advance!

Thanks for the replies. My pump does run occasionally (once or twice
a day I suppose) even when we have a hard freeze, I guess because of
the natural water table in the area.

It sounds like I'm on the right track.

My next question... is it better to connect the pipe sections together
with cemented couplers, or should I use those rubber couplers with
hose clamps? I realize the cemented couplers are probably best since
they won't ever leak, and they're cheaper too - but I'm wondering if
the rubber couplers would make installation easier (ie, if I need to
remove a section to adjust the grade) as well as making repairs easier
if a section breaks?


"Tom Eller" wrote in message ...
I'm in central ohio, and my pipe is very similar to what you described its
only buried around 3 or 4 inches under the grass and dosent freeze, we get
ALOT of water pumped out during spring-fall (poorly built house in a
sub-division), but once the ground freezes water cant get down into basement
anyway unless you have a spring coming up under your basement floor. As
long as their is a little bit of a grade water should not stay in pipe and
will have all run out between pump last runs and ground gets around to
freezing down to where the pipe is in the winter.

We used rubber sections in every non-buried join that we could because it
really absorbs some of the sound (whooshing, motor hum, etc.). We also
bought a check valve that uses a ball instead of a flap (no SLAP noise.) Not
cheap but nice and quiet.

Anyway, all our buried joins are cemented elbows.

There is flexible PVC available for this, too. But we didn't use the flex
underground and this was our thought: Flex PVC or rubber couplers could get
squished/crushed shut, pierced by a root or gnawed by some creature. It's
not likely, not easy, but it is possible. Plus, we couldn't predict or find
out anywhere how well those rubber sections would stand up to the effects of
being buried for a long period of time. I kept thinking about how some
rubber becomes brittle with age.

I suspect as sprawl makes for more houses built over high water tables
(where houses ain't s'posed to be), the devices for water removal will
become more and more sophisticated. People will be looking at houses like
yours and mine in wonder and amazement at the craftsmanship of our sump
systems... heh heh. People in my area learn to live with pumps - that's the
price we pay for living very near to rivers and/or at bases of mountains.
Every time I see stories on the news about drought in the plains, I imagine
the feasibility of miles and miles of that ribbed black tubing stretching
from my house to the affected area. If it works for oil??????

-Oldy

"dakota" wrote in message
om...
Thanks for the replies. My pump does run occasionally (once or twice
a day I suppose) even when we have a hard freeze, I guess because of
the natural water table in the area.

It sounds like I'm on the right track.

My next question... is it better to connect the pipe sections together
with cemented couplers, or should I use those rubber couplers with
hose clamps? I realize the cemented couplers are probably best since
they won't ever leak, and they're cheaper too - but I'm wondering if
the rubber couplers would make installation easier (ie, if I need to
remove a section to adjust the grade) as well as making repairs easier
if a section breaks?


"Tom Eller" wrote in message
...
I'm in central ohio, and my pipe is very similar to what you described
its
only buried around 3 or 4 inches under the grass and dosent freeze, we
get
ALOT of water pumped out during spring-fall (poorly built house in a
sub-division), but once the ground freezes water cant get down into
basement
anyway unless you have a spring coming up under your basement floor. As
long as their is a little bit of a grade water should not stay in pipe
and
will have all run out between pump last runs and ground gets around to
freezing down to where the pipe is in the winter.