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Duane Morin
 
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Default Calculating window heat loss

So I just put all new Harvey windows in my house, thinking that it
would cause a noticeable improvement in my heating. I'm disappointed.
Specifically I have this one small room with three windows (corner
room) and despite the fact that the thermostat is 6ft outside this
room reading 71, the room itself reads about 67-68.
Worse, I walked my thermometer over to a window and it dropped to 62.

So my natural question is, is there a way that I can tell my windows
have been installed properly and working as efficiently as they're
supposed to? Is that much of a degree change expected? We've had
some cold weather up here (Massachusetts) lately, but I wouldn't call
it extreme -- 20's to 30's mostly.

I think it's gotta be a heat loss thing (as opposed to not heating the
room enough, for instance) beacuse on a warmer day the thermostat read
72 and the room also read 72. So the differential seems to go up on
cold days.

I do get condensation on the windows sometimes, but it's a baby's
nursery and we often have a humidifier running so I'm assuming that's
normal. There is no condensation between the panes in the window.
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Joseph Meehan
 
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Default Calculating window heat loss

Duane Morin wrote:
So I just put all new Harvey windows in my house, thinking that it
would cause a noticeable improvement in my heating. I'm disappointed.
Specifically I have this one small room with three windows (corner
room) and despite the fact that the thermostat is 6ft outside this
room reading 71, the room itself reads about 67-68.
Worse, I walked my thermometer over to a window and it dropped to 62.


I am not sure what you were expecting. First, what were those number
before the new windows? Second I would not really expect much if any
difference. If the windows are working, they will let less heat escape.
With less heat escaping from your home, the thermostat will call for less
heat, and your home will stay at the SAME temperature as before, but you
will use less energy keeping it that way.

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math



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New & Improved - N/F John
 
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Default Calculating window heat loss


"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
Duane Morin wrote:
So I just put all new Harvey windows in my house, thinking that it
would cause a noticeable improvement in my heating. I'm disappointed.
Specifically I have this one small room with three windows (corner
room) and despite the fact that the thermostat is 6ft outside this
room reading 71, the room itself reads about 67-68.
Worse, I walked my thermometer over to a window and it dropped to 62.


I am not sure what you were expecting. First, what were those number
before the new windows? Second I would not really expect much if any
difference. If the windows are working, they will let less heat escape.
With less heat escaping from your home, the thermostat will call for less
heat, and your home will stay at the SAME temperature as before, but you
will use less energy keeping it that way.

--
Joseph E. Meehan


That's a good thought. The new windows could reduce drafts as well, but he
made no mention of drafts.


  #4   Report Post  
Mark or Sue
 
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Default Calculating window heat loss


"Duane Morin" wrote in message
om...
So I just put all new Harvey windows in my house, thinking that it
would cause a noticeable improvement in my heating. I'm disappointed.
Specifically I have this one small room with three windows (corner
room) and despite the fact that the thermostat is 6ft outside this
room reading 71, the room itself reads about 67-68.
Worse, I walked my thermometer over to a window and it dropped to 62.

So my natural question is, is there a way that I can tell my windows
have been installed properly and working as efficiently as they're
supposed to? Is that much of a degree change expected? We've had
some cold weather up here (Massachusetts) lately, but I wouldn't call
it extreme -- 20's to 30's mostly.

I think it's gotta be a heat loss thing (as opposed to not heating the
room enough, for instance) beacuse on a warmer day the thermostat read
72 and the room also read 72. So the differential seems to go up on
cold days.

I do get condensation on the windows sometimes, but it's a baby's
nursery and we often have a humidifier running so I'm assuming that's
normal. There is no condensation between the panes in the window.


What type of window did you have before (single or double pane)? What is the U value of the new
windows (should be a label on it somewhere)? Are they low-E?

--
Mark
Kent, WA



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Duane Morin
 
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Default Calculating window heat loss

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message .. .
Duane Morin wrote:
So I just put all new Harvey windows in my house, thinking that it
would cause a noticeable improvement in my heating. I'm disappointed.
Specifically I have this one small room with three windows (corner
room) and despite the fact that the thermostat is 6ft outside this
room reading 71, the room itself reads about 67-68.
Worse, I walked my thermometer over to a window and it dropped to 62.


I am not sure what you were expecting.


My daughter's room is the coldest room in the house. At the other end
of the upstairs is the master bedroom, also a corner room with three
windows, but it has much more baseboard for heat and pretty much bakes
us. So I am unable to heat the upstairs adequately -- in order to
keep her room at around 68 I would need to set the thermostat to about
72 which would in turn make our bedroom around 73+. Yuck.

We moved the thermostat from the master bedroom out into a more
central location at the top of the stairs, reasoning that formerly it
was in the room that heated fastest, therefore not leaving any time
for the other rooms to heat. But it has not helped - if anything it
has made the problem worse by causing the master bedroom to heat
longer and hotter.

I recognize that her room is probably getting the least heat, being
way at the end of the pipes and not having a huge amount of
baseboard. So I am overly paranoid about keeping as much of that heat
in there as possible. I am concerned that her room is losing heat
more rapidly than some of the others and not able to get it back.

Hope that clarifies my goals. I realize that by replacing all the
windows in the house I (at least theoretically) improved the heating
efficiency of the house across the board, and thus would not actually
solve the problem . My question came from the surprising discovery
that the temperature dropped so significantly over by the windows, and
I guess I just wasn't sure what to expect, so I asked.

I will look up the constants people are asking me for when I get home,
and post again with that info.

Thanks!

Duane


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Duane Morin
 
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Default Calculating window heat loss

"New & Improved - N/F John" wrote in message ...
That's a good thought. The new windows could reduce drafts as well, but he
made no mention of drafts.



I"m happy to say I'm not feeling any drafts. It's just colder than I
expected. I will track down some U and R values (what's the
difference?) and report back.

DUane
  #7   Report Post  
Joseph Meehan
 
Posts: n/a
Default Calculating window heat loss

Duane Morin wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
.. .
I am not sure what you were expecting.


My daughter's room is the coldest room in the house. At the other end
of the upstairs is the master bedroom, also a corner room with three
windows, but it has much more baseboard for heat and pretty much bakes
us. So I am unable to heat the upstairs adequately -- in order to
keep her room at around 68 I would need to set the thermostat to about
72 which would in turn make our bedroom around 73+. Yuck.

We moved the thermostat from the master bedroom out into a more
central location at the top of the stairs, reasoning that formerly it
was in the room that heated fastest, therefore not leaving any time
for the other rooms to heat. But it has not helped - if anything it
has made the problem worse by causing the master bedroom to heat
longer and hotter.

I recognize that her room is probably getting the least heat, being
way at the end of the pipes and not having a huge amount of
baseboard. So I am overly paranoid about keeping as much of that heat
in there as possible. I am concerned that her room is losing heat
more rapidly than some of the others and not able to get it back.

Hope that clarifies my goals. I realize that by replacing all the
windows in the house I (at least theoretically) improved the heating
efficiency of the house across the board, and thus would not actually
solve the problem . My question came from the surprising discovery
that the temperature dropped so significantly over by the windows, and
I guess I just wasn't sure what to expect, so I asked.

I will look up the constants people are asking me for when I get home,
and post again with that info.


You did a good think, but it was the wrong thing. Improved windows will
save you energy and are likely to make you home more comfortable, but they
will not help make the temperature more even.

Designing a system to efficiently, effectively and evenly is not rocket
science, it's harder. It's heating science and is as much an art as a
science. (Believe me, my son is a rocket scientist and could not design a
good heating system if his life depended on it. He does a great job on
satellites however.)

I suggest you find a professional familiar with the type of heat you are
using and have them take a look. This can't be done on-line it takes a on
site inspection.

In the long run it will not only make you more comfortable, but save you
the cost of the work as well in energy savings.

Good Luck

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math



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*CBHVAC*
 
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Default Calculating window heat loss


"Duane Morin" wrote in message
m...
"New & Improved - N/F John" wrote in message

...
That's a good thought. The new windows could reduce drafts as well, but

he
made no mention of drafts.



I"m happy to say I'm not feeling any drafts. It's just colder than I
expected. I will track down some U and R values (what's the
difference?) and report back.

DUane



R- insulation value of the ONE item
U-Insulation value of more than one item, like a wall...the combination of R
values....IE: air space, drywall, insulation, outer wall insulation, wall
material like brick, or other, and outdoor air envelope.



  #9   Report Post  
William W. Plummer
 
Posts: n/a
Default Calculating window heat loss


"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
Duane Morin wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
.. .
I am not sure what you were expecting.


My daughter's room is the coldest room in the house. At the other end
of the upstairs is the master bedroom, also a corner room with three
windows, but it has much more baseboard for heat and pretty much bakes
us. So I am unable to heat the upstairs adequately -- in order to
keep her room at around 68 I would need to set the thermostat to about
72 which would in turn make our bedroom around 73+. Yuck.

We moved the thermostat from the master bedroom out into a more
central location at the top of the stairs, reasoning that formerly it
was in the room that heated fastest, therefore not leaving any time
for the other rooms to heat. But it has not helped - if anything it
has made the problem worse by causing the master bedroom to heat
longer and hotter.

I recognize that her room is probably getting the least heat, being
way at the end of the pipes and not having a huge amount of
baseboard. So I am overly paranoid about keeping as much of that heat
in there as possible. I am concerned that her room is losing heat
more rapidly than some of the others and not able to get it back.

Hope that clarifies my goals. I realize that by replacing all the
windows in the house I (at least theoretically) improved the heating
efficiency of the house across the board, and thus would not actually
solve the problem . My question came from the surprising discovery
that the temperature dropped so significantly over by the windows, and
I guess I just wasn't sure what to expect, so I asked.

I will look up the constants people are asking me for when I get home,
and post again with that info.


You did a good think, but it was the wrong thing. Improved windows

will
save you energy and are likely to make you home more comfortable, but they
will not help make the temperature more even.

Designing a system to efficiently, effectively and evenly is not

rocket
science, it's harder. It's heating science and is as much an art as a
science. (Believe me, my son is a rocket scientist and could not design a
good heating system if his life depended on it. He does a great job on
satellites however.)

I suggest you find a professional familiar with the type of heat you

are
using and have them take a look. This can't be done on-line it takes a on
site inspection.

In the long run it will not only make you more comfortable, but save

you
the cost of the work as well in energy savings.


If the OP has baseboard radiators, he may be able to shut the flaps on them
in the room that is too hot and open them in the room that is too cool.


  #10   Report Post  
Jim Elbrecht
 
Posts: n/a
Default Calculating window heat loss

(Duane Morin) wrote:

-snip-
My daughter's room is the coldest room in the house. At the other end
of the upstairs is the master bedroom, also a corner room with three
windows, but it has much more baseboard for heat and pretty much bakes
us. So I am unable to heat the upstairs adequately -- in order to
keep her room at around 68 I would need to set the thermostat to about
72 which would in turn make our bedroom around 73+. Yuck.


Your problem isn't necessarily heat loss, it is heat gain- from your
furnace. Balance the heat and you're comfortable all over.

What kind of heating system do you have? While the easy way would
be to hire a pro- you live there so you can tweak things on a daily
basis until you're happy.



We moved the thermostat from the master bedroom out into a more
central location at the top of the stairs, reasoning that formerly it
was in the room that heated fastest, therefore not leaving any time
for the other rooms to heat. But it has not helped - if anything it
has made the problem worse by causing the master bedroom to heat
longer and hotter.


If all of the rooms had exactly the same heat loss & gain that might
help. I hope you didn't take the wires out of the master bedroom--
If this is zoned heat & the upstairs is open to the downstairs, then I
think you just went downhill in trying to control your heat.


I recognize that her room is probably getting the least heat, being
way at the end of the pipes and not having a huge amount of
baseboard. So I am overly paranoid about keeping as much of that heat
in there as possible. I am concerned that her room is losing heat
more rapidly than some of the others and not able to get it back.


So you have 3 choices-- cut down on the amount of heat reaching the
other rooms so they all cycle longer-- or add supplemental heat to
that room. Or you might be able to go with window quilts which can
get your windows up to an R value in line with walls.

-snip-
My question came from the surprising discovery
that the temperature dropped so significantly over by the windows, and
I guess I just wasn't sure what to expect, so I asked.


Wait until you see the difference of R values between a window and a
wall -- and if that isn't dramatic enough, figure the heat loss of
that room against one of the bigger, less windowed rooms.
-snip-

Jim

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