------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------

A friend of mine just spent $100 having her Armstrong Ultra SX-80
furnace fixed. According to the repairman, this is a common problem with
this model and is easily fixed by the homeowner -- so I thought I'd post
the fix here and, hopefully, save some future reader a few bucks.

Her problem was that the furnace would not light. This unit has an
electronic ignition that will not function unless conditions are OK in
the combustion area. When the thermostat calls for heat, the combustion
fan motor turns on, drawing in fresh outside air. The pressure caused by
the fan is detected by a separately mounted pressure switch. If the
switch is not activated, no ignition.

The pressure switch is connected to the combustion area by an 18 inch
length of 1/4 inch rubber hose. It turns out that there is a lot of
condensation in the combustion chamber in the area of the hose fitting
and particles of rust can clog that fitting. Once the serviceman
realized the pressure switch wasn't activating, the first thing he did
was pull the hose off the fitting near the fan and ran a wire down the
fitting bore to clean it. He reattached the hose, hit the power switch
and the furnace fired right up. Total time: 10 minutes, tops.

I now know what to do next time -- and I expect there will be a next
time.

Hopefully, I've saved you a service call.

--
Remove (remove) from email address.

"Roy Zimmerman" wrote in message
6.16...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------

A friend of mine just spent $100 having her Armstrong Ultra SX-80
furnace fixed. According to the repairman, this is a common problem with
this model and is easily fixed by the homeowner -- so I thought I'd post
the fix here and, hopefully, save some future reader a few bucks.

Her problem was that the furnace would not light. This unit has an
electronic ignition that will not function unless conditions are OK in
the combustion area. When the thermostat calls for heat, the combustion
fan motor turns on, drawing in fresh outside air. The pressure caused by
the fan is detected by a separately mounted pressure switch. If the
switch is not activated, no ignition.

The pressure switch is connected to the combustion area by an 18 inch
length of 1/4 inch rubber hose. It turns out that there is a lot of
condensation in the combustion chamber in the area of the hose fitting
and particles of rust can clog that fitting. Once the serviceman
realized the pressure switch wasn't activating, the first thing he did
was pull the hose off the fitting near the fan and ran a wire down the
fitting bore to clean it. He reattached the hose, hit the power switch
and the furnace fired right up. Total time: 10 minutes, tops.

I now know what to do next time -- and I expect there will be a next
time.

Hopefully, I've saved you a service call.

--
Remove (remove) from email address.

As I have already told you, he fix a symptom not the problem.

--
kjpro
=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_
want it done right the first time.....
.....or pay more to have it done twice?
=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_

Why is that? Would not a lack of vacuum to the pressure switch not allow the
furmace to light?
Tony D.
"kjpro" kjpro @ starband . net wrote in message
. net...
As I have already told you, he fix a symptom not the problem.

--
kjpro
=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_
want it done right the first time.....
....or pay more to have it done twice?
=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_

i get the same thieg when the coons nest - no fere

"Anthony Diodati" wrote in message
...
Why is that? Would not a lack of vacuum to the pressure switch not allow
the
furmace to light?
Tony D.

Lack of vac would indeed, but what he describes is another larger problem
that needs to be addressed, and while anyone can hack in a fix, the real
tech will find the real problem, and repair the unit, not put a patch on it.
That was a patch...nothing more.

Case in point. I had a customer that had (key word, HAD) a 3 year old Rheem
90% condensing furnace. He had allowed his cousin, who had a friend in the
trade who had a friend...and so on, install it for him. I got called out for
a no heat call. When I got there, the unit was installed BELOW grade, in a
crawlspace and had been flooded. I priced out a new unit. Period. The maker
of the unit even states in clear letters, not to run the unit if it has been
exposed to water.
He of course, declined and called his buddy of a buddy of a buddy back out
who basically, disabled all the safetys, vac'd out the primary heat
exchanger and blocked the drain at somepoint.
I got called back about a month later. The home had caught on
fire....sorta...the lower floor joists were found to be smoldering one
morning since the drain had blocked up, filled the primary heat exchanger
with water again, the inducer motor had been rigged to run all the time, and
the roll outs had been bypassed.
The flame was NOT going into the heat exchanger, but instead were rolling
out into the vented side, and the heat was scorching the joists.
He had no real legal means to go after the guy that installed or "repaired"
it since he was not licenced or insured, and is now the owner of a properly
installed unit, above grade, with all permits and inspections done.
Sometimes, JUST because you got it to run, does not mean its running
correctly, or that you solved the real problem.


"kjpro" kjpro @ starband . net wrote in message
. net...
As I have already told you, he fix a symptom not the problem.

--
kjpro
=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_
want it done right the first time.....
....or pay more to have it done twice?
=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 19:34:45 -0500, "CBhvac"
stephenaddressscfrewedonpurpose@carolinabreezehva c.com wrote:


"Anthony Diodati" wrote in message
...
Why is that? Would not a lack of vacuum to the pressure switch not allow
the
furmace to light?
Tony D.

Lack of vac would indeed, but what he describes is another larger problem
that needs to be addressed, and while anyone can hack in a fix, the real
tech will find the real problem, and repair the unit, not put a patch on it.
That was a patch...nothing more.

Case in point. I had a customer that had (key word, HAD) a 3 year old Rheem
90% condensing furnace. He had allowed his cousin, who had a friend in the
trade who had a friend...and so on, install it for him. I got called out for
a no heat call. When I got there, the unit was installed BELOW grade, in a
crawlspace and had been flooded. I priced out a new unit. Period. The maker
of the unit even states in clear letters, not to run the unit if it has been
exposed to water.
He of course, declined and called his buddy of a buddy of a buddy back out
who basically, disabled all the safetys, vac'd out the primary heat
exchanger and blocked the drain at somepoint.
I got called back about a month later. The home had caught on
fire....sorta...the lower floor joists were found to be smoldering one
morning since the drain had blocked up, filled the primary heat exchanger
with water again, the inducer motor had been rigged to run all the time, and
the roll outs had been bypassed.

If the inducer was rigged to run all the time, how did the furnace
continue to operate after the first cycle in which the pressure switch
failed to open?

George

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 19:17:14 -0500, "Anthony Diodati"
wrote:

Why is that? Would not a lack of vacuum to the pressure switch not allow the
furmace to light?
Tony D.


**** poor design. Look at the inducer housing. Is it covered with
flaking black paint? Guess what...the inside is painted too! The
paint flakes off and plugs up the port. Just popping a wire through
the port will fix the problem but odds are it will come back shortly.
The replacement inducer assemblies are no longer painted.

"vairxpert" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 19:34:45 -0500, "CBhvac"
stephenaddressscfrewedonpurpose@carolinabreezehva c.com wrote:


"Anthony Diodati" wrote in message
...
Why is that? Would not a lack of vacuum to the pressure switch not
allow
the
furmace to light?
Tony D.

Lack of vac would indeed, but what he describes is another larger problem
that needs to be addressed, and while anyone can hack in a fix, the real
tech will find the real problem, and repair the unit, not put a patch on
it.
That was a patch...nothing more.

Case in point. I had a customer that had (key word, HAD) a 3 year old
Rheem
90% condensing furnace. He had allowed his cousin, who had a friend in
the
trade who had a friend...and so on, install it for him. I got called out
for
a no heat call. When I got there, the unit was installed BELOW grade, in
a
crawlspace and had been flooded. I priced out a new unit. Period. The
maker
of the unit even states in clear letters, not to run the unit if it has
been
exposed to water.
He of course, declined and called his buddy of a buddy of a buddy back
out
who basically, disabled all the safetys, vac'd out the primary heat
exchanger and blocked the drain at somepoint.
I got called back about a month later. The home had caught on
fire....sorta...the lower floor joists were found to be smoldering one
morning since the drain had blocked up, filled the primary heat exchanger
with water again, the inducer motor had been rigged to run all the time,
and
the roll outs had been bypassed.

If the inducer was rigged to run all the time, how did the furnace
continue to operate after the first cycle in which the pressure switch
failed to open?

Ignore the posting name, changed it for a sec in alt.hvac and havent
bothered to change it back.

Simple...it was rigged on a standard peanut relay...When W was hot, it
started the inducer. I might...and thats might, have some pics of that one
around...if I do, you can see what a mess it was.
He had a couple of old TI sequencers in there as well, that didnt belong.


George

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 20:22:19 -0500, "StephenM"
stephenaddressscfrewedonpurpose@carolinabreezehva c.com wrote:


"vairxpert" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 19:34:45 -0500, "CBhvac"
stephenaddressscfrewedonpurpose@carolinabreezehva c.com wrote:


"Anthony Diodati" wrote in message
...
Why is that? Would not a lack of vacuum to the pressure switch not
allow
the
furmace to light?
Tony D.

Lack of vac would indeed, but what he describes is another larger problem
that needs to be addressed, and while anyone can hack in a fix, the real
tech will find the real problem, and repair the unit, not put a patch on
it.
That was a patch...nothing more.

Case in point. I had a customer that had (key word, HAD) a 3 year old
Rheem
90% condensing furnace. He had allowed his cousin, who had a friend in
the
trade who had a friend...and so on, install it for him. I got called out
for
a no heat call. When I got there, the unit was installed BELOW grade, in
a
crawlspace and had been flooded. I priced out a new unit. Period. The
maker
of the unit even states in clear letters, not to run the unit if it has
been
exposed to water.
He of course, declined and called his buddy of a buddy of a buddy back
out
who basically, disabled all the safetys, vac'd out the primary heat
exchanger and blocked the drain at somepoint.
I got called back about a month later. The home had caught on
fire....sorta...the lower floor joists were found to be smoldering one
morning since the drain had blocked up, filled the primary heat exchanger
with water again, the inducer motor had been rigged to run all the time,
and
the roll outs had been bypassed.

If the inducer was rigged to run all the time, how did the furnace
continue to operate after the first cycle in which the pressure switch
failed to open?

Ignore the posting name, changed it for a sec in alt.hvac and havent
bothered to change it back.

Simple...it was rigged on a standard peanut relay...When W was hot, it
started the inducer. I might...and thats might, have some pics of that one
around...if I do, you can see what a mess it was.
He had a couple of old TI sequencers in there as well, that didnt belong.

Why did he go through all that trouble instead of just letting the
control board do its job? Or was the exchanger plugged to the point
the pressure switch didn't prove, so he basically hardwired the
inducer and used a relay in place of the pressure switch that would
make and break on W in order to fool the computer? Now that would be
Sweeet!!

Oh and if you're reading this, Stormin'...please don't get any ideas!

George

So IOW there should not have been a lot of
condensation in the combustion chamber in the area of the hose
fitting,causeing the rust in the first place?
Tony D.

"CBhvac" stephenaddressscfrewedonpurpose@carolinabreezehva c.com wrote in
message ...

"Anthony Diodati" wrote in message
...
Why is that? Would not a lack of vacuum to the pressure switch not allow
the
furmace to light?
Tony D.

Lack of vac would indeed, but what he describes is another larger problem
that needs to be addressed, and while anyone can hack in a fix, the real
tech will find the real problem, and repair the unit, not put a patch on
it.
That was a patch...nothing more.

Case in point. I had a customer that had (key word, HAD) a 3 year old
Rheem
90% condensing furnace. He had allowed his cousin, who had a friend in the
trade who had a friend...and so on, install it for him. I got called out
for
a no heat call. When I got there, the unit was installed BELOW grade, in a
crawlspace and had been flooded. I priced out a new unit. Period. The
maker
of the unit even states in clear letters, not to run the unit if it has
been
exposed to water.
He of course, declined and called his buddy of a buddy of a buddy back out
who basically, disabled all the safetys, vac'd out the primary heat
exchanger and blocked the drain at somepoint.
I got called back about a month later. The home had caught on
fire....sorta...the lower floor joists were found to be smoldering one
morning since the drain had blocked up, filled the primary heat exchanger
with water again, the inducer motor had been rigged to run all the time,
and
the roll outs had been bypassed.
The flame was NOT going into the heat exchanger, but instead were rolling
out into the vented side, and the heat was scorching the joists.
He had no real legal means to go after the guy that installed or
"repaired"
it since he was not licenced or insured, and is now the owner of a
properly
installed unit, above grade, with all permits and inspections done.
Sometimes, JUST because you got it to run, does not mean its running
correctly, or that you solved the real problem.


"kjpro" kjpro @ starband . net wrote in message
. net...
As I have already told you, he fix a symptom not the problem.

--
kjpro
=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_
want it done right the first time.....
....or pay more to have it done twice?
=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_

Good to Know!
Tony Dd.
"vairxpert" wrote in message
...
**** poor design. Look at the inducer housing. Is it covered with
flaking black paint? Guess what...the inside is painted too! The
paint flakes off and plugs up the port. Just popping a wire through
the port will fix the problem but odds are it will come back shortly.
The replacement inducer assemblies are no longer painted.

"vairxpert" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 20:22:19 -0500, "StephenM"
stephenaddressscfrewedonpurpose@carolinabreezehva c.com wrote:


"vairxpert" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 19:34:45 -0500, "CBhvac"
stephenaddressscfrewedonpurpose@carolinabreezehva c.com wrote:


"Anthony Diodati" wrote in message
...
Why is that? Would not a lack of vacuum to the pressure switch not
allow
the
furmace to light?
Tony D.

Lack of vac would indeed, but what he describes is another larger
problem
that needs to be addressed, and while anyone can hack in a fix, the
real
tech will find the real problem, and repair the unit, not put a patch
on
it.
That was a patch...nothing more.

Case in point. I had a customer that had (key word, HAD) a 3 year old
Rheem
90% condensing furnace. He had allowed his cousin, who had a friend in
the
trade who had a friend...and so on, install it for him. I got called
out
for
a no heat call. When I got there, the unit was installed BELOW grade,
in
a
crawlspace and had been flooded. I priced out a new unit. Period. The
maker
of the unit even states in clear letters, not to run the unit if it
has
been
exposed to water.
He of course, declined and called his buddy of a buddy of a buddy back
out
who basically, disabled all the safetys, vac'd out the primary heat
exchanger and blocked the drain at somepoint.
I got called back about a month later. The home had caught on
fire....sorta...the lower floor joists were found to be smoldering one
morning since the drain had blocked up, filled the primary heat
exchanger
with water again, the inducer motor had been rigged to run all the
time,
and
the roll outs had been bypassed.

If the inducer was rigged to run all the time, how did the furnace
continue to operate after the first cycle in which the pressure switch
failed to open?

Ignore the posting name, changed it for a sec in alt.hvac and havent
bothered to change it back.

Simple...it was rigged on a standard peanut relay...When W was hot, it
started the inducer. I might...and thats might, have some pics of that
one
around...if I do, you can see what a mess it was.
He had a couple of old TI sequencers in there as well, that didnt belong.

Why did he go through all that trouble instead of just letting the
control board do its job? Or was the exchanger plugged to the point
the pressure switch didn't prove, so he basically hardwired the
inducer and used a relay in place of the pressure switch that would
make and break on W in order to fool the computer? Now that would be
Sweeet!!

Yup...exactly. I had a similar problem child not too long ago..an older
Armstrong. I got this call about a unit that the other tech had said he
"cant get that computer control anymore" and wondered if I could look at it.
It worked sometimes, and most times not. It was a mess, in a crawlspace, and
the vent was rusted, doors off, blower door switch hardwired, blower
overheat limit hardwired, an extra relay or 4 in there..a bad HSI, and the
best part was, once I got the HSI working, I had to prove what else was
wrong, and start over. So..first things first, I get the thing to fire, and
lo and behold, it does...problem is that the inducer and the blower came on
at the same time.
Turn the AC on....inducer was on..go freaking figure. Long story
short...after ripping it down to nothing but the HSI control still in place,
and starting over, there was nothing wrong with it other than some really,
really reeeeeealy dumb wiring done by a tech from another company, that
didnt have a clue.
Funny part was, it was proof positive that if the fan starts at the same
time as the inducer, the heat exchanger will never get to temp....the sounds
of commotion from the owner when she thought the house was on
fire..LOL..from the crap burning off the HE was priceless.
Point is, you and I both know that too many people think an extra relay to
make things work fixes the problem...


Oh and if you're reading this, Stormin'...please don't get any ideas!

I thought of him...I really honestly did...
I have even thought of printing up a sign, and when I run into a REALLY
hacked one like that, taping it to it and snapping a pic for the website..
Sign might say...SM was here....or...Stormy...is this your work?


George

"Anthony Diodati" wrote in message
...
So IOW there should not have been a lot of
condensation in the combustion chamber in the area of the hose
fitting,causeing the rust in the first place?
Tony D.

Define alot..

90%+ units are condensing. They make tons in some cases of condensate. IF
and thats IF everything is working like its supposed to, thats remvoed and
no water will build up in the unit. The PVC exhaust normally will have a
drain, and so will the heat exchangers. They normally run into a common
drain to the unit, and the condensates removed from the area.
IF the units installed at the wrong angle (very common) or the drains are
not installed at the right location, the secondary in particular will
actually fill with water. I myself have vac'd out a couple that were wrong.
They work fine, till the water either clogs the tube, or the inducer cant
pull a vac due to water, and the 24VAC system is shut down.

"CBhvac" stephenaddressscfrewedonpurpose@carolinabreezehva c.com wrote in
message ...

"Anthony Diodati" wrote in message
...
Why is that? Would not a lack of vacuum to the pressure switch not
allow
the
furmace to light?
Tony D.

Lack of vac would indeed, but what he describes is another larger
problem
that needs to be addressed, and while anyone can hack in a fix, the real
tech will find the real problem, and repair the unit, not put a patch on
it.
That was a patch...nothing more.

Case in point. I had a customer that had (key word, HAD) a 3 year old
Rheem
90% condensing furnace. He had allowed his cousin, who had a friend in
the
trade who had a friend...and so on, install it for him. I got called out
for
a no heat call. When I got there, the unit was installed BELOW grade, in
a
crawlspace and had been flooded. I priced out a new unit. Period. The
maker
of the unit even states in clear letters, not to run the unit if it has
been
exposed to water.
He of course, declined and called his buddy of a buddy of a buddy back
out
who basically, disabled all the safetys, vac'd out the primary heat
exchanger and blocked the drain at somepoint.
I got called back about a month later. The home had caught on
fire....sorta...the lower floor joists were found to be smoldering one
morning since the drain had blocked up, filled the primary heat
exchanger
with water again, the inducer motor had been rigged to run all the time,
and
the roll outs had been bypassed.
The flame was NOT going into the heat exchanger, but instead were
rolling
out into the vented side, and the heat was scorching the joists.
He had no real legal means to go after the guy that installed or
"repaired"
it since he was not licenced or insured, and is now the owner of a
properly
installed unit, above grade, with all permits and inspections done.
Sometimes, JUST because you got it to run, does not mean its running
correctly, or that you solved the real problem.


"kjpro" kjpro @ starband . net wrote in message
. net...
As I have already told you, he fix a symptom not the problem.

--
kjpro
=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_
want it done right the first time.....
....or pay more to have it done twice?
=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_

replying to Roy Zimmerman, Rob Lewis wrote:
Thank you very much. I cleaned mine with a wire bread tie. Rob

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ce-508382-.htm

replying to Roy Zimmerman, Refral wrote:
Thank you Roy for posting this article. You, this article, probably saved me
hundreds of dollars. I have often said, it is the simple things that may get
you out of a jam, if you seek the right knowledge. Especially if ask for
Devine guidance.
Peace,
Reginald
It will be a comfortable winter in my home with coffee, rolls, and glazing out
the windows.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ce-508382-.htm

The vacuum pressure switch ensures that the induction motor fan is properly working, because it's job is to push the poisonous exhaust gasses up the chimney. If there's no suction on the switch because of a clogged line the furnace shuts down due to safety precautions.

--
For full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ce-508382-.htm