I live in Southern Illinois, near St.Louis.

I am attempting to finsh my basement and the wife wants to put in a
bar with a sink. I have never done plumbing before so I called around
to have it done for me, but was being quoted around $1800.00 for just
the drain pipe. While this may be an appropriate price it is far more
than I was able to afford curently.

My drain opening is a straight 15' from where I can connect to my
basement bath room drain pipe that then goes to a sewage ejector. Or
13' from the drain for the AC/Furnace unit, which also leads to the
sewage ejector, but will have to have make a turn.

So, now I am left to doing it myself. I would appreciate any and all
advice on how to go about this.

What I have learned from the internet thus far:
1.The drain pipe should slope 1/4" for every foot of pipe.
2.The drain pipe needs to be vented.(Air Admittance valve from
Studor?)
thats it.

Immediate Questions:
1. What do I need to cut the concrete?
2. Can I connect to the drain pipe from my basement bath room?
3. Can I connect to the drain pipe from the AC?
4. Which is better/worse?
5. How do I do a vent pipe?

Please help!

If it were me I would run to your bathroom drain connection, this is already
vented. The 1/4 might be a bit much, after all you said it 15'. Well that
would put you up almost 4". But again depending on the height of your wet
bar sink it might just work in your favor. Make sure you have a trap in your
drain pipe, and do it all with PVC.
For water supply there is a fairly new product of flexible hose that is used
for supply lines, but check the code in your area.

Dave

"Randall2n" wrote in message
m...
I live in Southern Illinois, near St.Louis.

I am attempting to finsh my basement and the wife wants to put in a
bar with a sink. I have never done plumbing before so I called around
to have it done for me, but was being quoted around $1800.00 for just
the drain pipe. While this may be an appropriate price it is far more
than I was able to afford curently.

My drain opening is a straight 15' from where I can connect to my
basement bath room drain pipe that then goes to a sewage ejector. Or
13' from the drain for the AC/Furnace unit, which also leads to the
sewage ejector, but will have to have make a turn.

So, now I am left to doing it myself. I would appreciate any and all
advice on how to go about this.

What I have learned from the internet thus far:
1.The drain pipe should slope 1/4" for every foot of pipe.
2.The drain pipe needs to be vented.(Air Admittance valve from
Studor?)
thats it.

Immediate Questions:
1. What do I need to cut the concrete?
2. Can I connect to the drain pipe from my basement bath room?
3. Can I connect to the drain pipe from the AC?
4. Which is better/worse?
5. How do I do a vent pipe?

Please help!

Immediate Questions:
1. What do I need to cut the concrete?

Rent an electric jackhammer. Available at all rental places.

2. Can I connect to the drain pipe from my basement bath room?

We can't see it from here, but if it has enough capacity and slope...

3. Can I connect to the drain pipe from the AC?

Probably not. This is usually designed for a small trickle of
water.
4. Which is better/worse?


5. How do I do a vent pipe? I'd use what's there. Look around.

Please help!

Just had a drain line put under the cement floor for a shower. The floor
was opened up using a large drill very similar to a jackhammer. It was air
driven but an electric one should be available. A series of holes were
drilled very close together along and in what was to be the opened trench.
Then a sledge hammer was used to break the cement. It didn't take too long
to open up about 10 feet. Sand was put in the trench below and on top of the
new drain and then the cement. PCV is the way to go. Be sure you know the
code that dictates the diameter of the drain line as well as venting
requirements. I believe that the code limits the distance between the vent
location and the object being vented.
MLD
"Randall2n" wrote in message
m...
I live in Southern Illinois, near St.Louis.

I am attempting to finsh my basement and the wife wants to put in a
bar with a sink. I have never done plumbing before so I called around
to have it done for me, but was being quoted around $1800.00 for just
the drain pipe. While this may be an appropriate price it is far more
than I was able to afford curently.

My drain opening is a straight 15' from where I can connect to my
basement bath room drain pipe that then goes to a sewage ejector. Or
13' from the drain for the AC/Furnace unit, which also leads to the
sewage ejector, but will have to have make a turn.

So, now I am left to doing it myself. I would appreciate any and all
advice on how to go about this.

What I have learned from the internet thus far:
1.The drain pipe should slope 1/4" for every foot of pipe.
2.The drain pipe needs to be vented.(Air Admittance valve from
Studor?)
thats it.

Immediate Questions:
1. What do I need to cut the concrete?
2. Can I connect to the drain pipe from my basement bath room?
3. Can I connect to the drain pipe from the AC?
4. Which is better/worse?
5. How do I do a vent pipe?

Please help!

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:11:45 GMT, "MLD" wrote:

Just had a drain line put under the cement floor for a shower. The floor
was opened up using a large drill very similar to a jackhammer. It was air
driven but an electric one should be available. A series of holes were
drilled very close together along and in what was to be the opened trench.
Then a sledge hammer was used to break the cement. It didn't take too long
to open up about 10 feet. Sand was put in the trench below and on top of the
new drain and then the cement. PCV is the way to go. Be sure you know the
code that dictates the diameter of the drain line as well as venting
requirements. I believe that the code limits the distance between the vent
location and the object being vented.
MLD

No offense, but why even mention code for this?

Would you pull a permit on your own home? Would you invite the
inspector out to check your work in any case?

As you might guess, I'd never let an inspector on my property. Some
people like big government, some don't. I'm ok, you're ok.


PJ.








"Randall2n" wrote in message
om...
I live in Southern Illinois, near St.Louis.

I am attempting to finsh my basement and the wife wants to put in a
bar with a sink. I have never done plumbing before so I called around
to have it done for me, but was being quoted around $1800.00 for just
the drain pipe. While this may be an appropriate price it is far more
than I was able to afford curently.

My drain opening is a straight 15' from where I can connect to my
basement bath room drain pipe that then goes to a sewage ejector. Or
13' from the drain for the AC/Furnace unit, which also leads to the
sewage ejector, but will have to have make a turn.

So, now I am left to doing it myself. I would appreciate any and all
advice on how to go about this.

What I have learned from the internet thus far:
1.The drain pipe should slope 1/4" for every foot of pipe.
2.The drain pipe needs to be vented.(Air Admittance valve from
Studor?)
thats it.

Immediate Questions:
1. What do I need to cut the concrete?
2. Can I connect to the drain pipe from my basement bath room?
3. Can I connect to the drain pipe from the AC?
4. Which is better/worse?
5. How do I do a vent pipe?

Please help!

I needed an inspector because this was only a small piece of what was going
on. I had a contractor doing the work and a permit had to be pulled. "why
even mention code for this?" because why do something that is no longer up
to code. For example, my original shower drain line was 11/2" in diameter.
The floor was dug up because the code now requires a 2" dia. line.
MLD
"PJx" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:11:45 GMT, "MLD" wrote:

Just had a drain line put under the cement floor for a shower. The floor
was opened up using a large drill very similar to a jackhammer. It was
air
driven but an electric one should be available. A series of holes were
drilled very close together along and in what was to be the opened
trench.
Then a sledge hammer was used to break the cement. It didn't take too
long
to open up about 10 feet. Sand was put in the trench below and on top of
the
new drain and then the cement. PCV is the way to go. Be sure you know
the
code that dictates the diameter of the drain line as well as venting
requirements. I believe that the code limits the distance between the
vent
location and the object being vented.
MLD

No offense, but

Would you pull a permit on your own home? Would you invite the
inspector out to check your work in any case?

As you might guess, I'd never let an inspector on my property. Some
people like big government, some don't. I'm ok, you're ok.


PJ.








"Randall2n" wrote in message
om...
I live in Southern Illinois, near St.Louis.

I am attempting to finsh my basement and the wife wants to put in a
bar with a sink. I have never done plumbing before so I called around
to have it done for me, but was being quoted around $1800.00 for just
the drain pipe. While this may be an appropriate price it is far more
than I was able to afford curently.

My drain opening is a straight 15' from where I can connect to my
basement bath room drain pipe that then goes to a sewage ejector. Or
13' from the drain for the AC/Furnace unit, which also leads to the
sewage ejector, but will have to have make a turn.

So, now I am left to doing it myself. I would appreciate any and all
advice on how to go about this.

What I have learned from the internet thus far:
1.The drain pipe should slope 1/4" for every foot of pipe.
2.The drain pipe needs to be vented.(Air Admittance valve from
Studor?)
thats it.

Immediate Questions:
1. What do I need to cut the concrete?
2. Can I connect to the drain pipe from my basement bath room?
3. Can I connect to the drain pipe from the AC?
4. Which is better/worse?
5. How do I do a vent pipe?

Please help!

I finally got a hold of the plumbing inspector. Where I live the
inspections are strictly enforced when you go to sell your house. The
city gets a copy the original plans from the builder, and in order to
sell your house you have to a city inspection. If the inspector comes
and finds major renovations not on the plans, the renovations are
considered null and you could be required to rip it out. Not something
I am will to take a chance on.

The slope only has to be 1/8" for every foot.
ALL "Air Admittance Valves" are illegal in the state of Illinois.
Pipes under the concrete must be a minimum of 2".

So it looks like I am off to rent an electric concrete saw.

I am going to have the contractor come back out and give a new
estimate for just laying the pipe and doing the vent.

I rented an electric conrete saw and electric breaker (jack-hammer)
saturday morning. The saw used some kind of composite blade that wore
away as I cut, so I had to buy three(3) blades. Total cost about $130
(I found a rental place that was not open on sunday, so I just got
charged for a one day rental).

The sawing was the worst for me. The saw was not on a cart or
anything, I had to get on my knees and pull it across the floor. After
about three(3) hours of this, my hands were killing me, luckly I had a
really good pair of knee pads. If anyone else tries this hold out for
one that you can stand up with. also look into geting one with a
dimond tipped metal blade. I ended up sawing about three inches into
the concrete.

Also I would like to note that this creates a lot of dust, A LOT OF
DUST!!! Get a breathing mask and some goggles, put plastic over any
air vents and around/on areas you do not want to be coated, open a
winodw and put a fan blowing out in it. I have done drywall sanding
many times, and this seemed about three times as bad to me.

Using the Jack-Hammer was actually pretty fun. A little jarring, but
fun. Hauling the broken conrete up out of the basement was not to bad,
just had to remember not to fill the bucket up too much (lots of small
loads was easier).

Shoveling the rock below the concrete was an unexpected thing. I had
no idea that the pipes woud be two(2) inches below the concrete. I
know it sounds ignorant, but I figured after removing the concrete I
would be done.

The plumber said that he would need three(3) feet of pipe exposed,
with two(2) inches dug below the pipe, and tweleve(12) inches out on
either side of the pipe.

Well that is my experience thus far.

Side note:
I had three estimates done, two were about the same price. But there
was a diffrence concerning the vent pipe. Apparently where I want the
sink, the vent pipe has to go up into the floor joists and then over
to where a vent pipe is. The problem comes in that the only exposed
vent pipe is about two(2) inches LOWER than where the new vent pipe
would come out at.

The first did not raise a question about it, but looked like he was
going to use the lower pipe. The second said he was going to check on
a variance to use the lower pipe, and mentioned something about an
island sink vent. The third seemed completely confused and would not
give an estimate because he did not want to under/over quote (he was a
junior apprintce and said that he wanted a journeymen to come out and
look at it).

Please post with any comments or concerns, as you can tell this is all
greek to me.

Randall2n wrote:
SNIP
The first did not raise a question about it, but looked like he was
going to use the lower pipe. The second said he was going to check on
a variance to use the lower pipe, and mentioned something about an
island sink vent.

Go he
http://www.codecheck.com/pg13_14plumbing.html
Fig P-5.

The "island vent" scheme was designed for use in kitchens
where the sink is out on an "island" and can't be vented
vertically. It's a clever scheme which has lots of applications.
I'll be taking bets on whether it will be allowed. g

Good for you for taking the time to get the inspector's input on the
project!

Jim

Well the project is over, I poured the concrete in last night.

I wish I knew about there being a diamond tipped blade and the water
before I did the cutting, I am still cleaning up the dust (it got
everywhere).

The inspector did not like the idea of using an island vent, but
accepted it after seeing the complications that would be encountered
by trying to go up the wall for a more traditional vent.

However, the plumber that put in the island vent did not have the vent
pipe low enough, at the end it was sticking above the concrete. The
plumber said that it could not be avoided because of where the drain
was, the connectors and the pitch that the connectors must be. The
inspector failed it though, because it stuck out of the concrete, and
that could cause the pipe to crack. The inspector told the plumber to
lay the connector, from the drain to the vent, down horizontally. The
plumber told me that doing that is not right and is not up to code,
but if that is what the inspector wants then that is what he will do.

The U-shaped part of the island vent, the part that goes up and then
down inside the wall, needed to be at least six inches above the
counter top height.

The water pipes to the bar sink needed air chambers on them, the
inspector said that even the pipe to the refrigerator, for the ice
maker, should have one, but would be ok once the air chamber was put
on for the sink.

Anyway the plumber came back out quickly and fixed everything, and was
very pleasant. So I am really glad that I had them do it. It cost me
$450 to have them lay the drain and vent pipes. I have no idea if
that is a good price. The inspector said it seemed high to him, but
the other quotes I got just for laying the pipes were over $1,000.

I put rock back into the hole, just enough to cover the pipes, and
then put plastic over the rock, when I dug the hole there was plastic
between the rock and the concrete, so I just mimicked that. I had
about 27 square feet, to fill in and must not have had a full 4 inches
some where, because it only took 12 bags of 80 lbs. concrete mix (the
kind you just add water to). The bag said it should take 14 bags for
24 square feet for a 4 inch pour. Other than being a little
interesting to get smooth and level, this was very easy and took less
than three hours to pour. I re-smoothed it out about once every hour,
a little obsessive, but hey its boring watching concrete dry.

I would like to thank James from AAA AceCo for laying the drain and
vent pipes.

I would also like to say thanks to all who posted.