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#41
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Any risk in buying a house with finished basement without permit -Please advise
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#42
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Any risk in buying a house with finished basement without permit-Please advise
Trent© wrote: On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 23:31:46 GMT, Tony Hwang wrote: Hi, My present house was 100% developed when built by my custom builder. B4 I used to finish basement myself. Our city has DIY permit for electrical work and plumbing. Cost is minimal. It includes two inspections. This goes on city record which means you met the code requirement. If everything is done in private, there is no supporting document whether the work was done per code. Insurance coimpany can pick on this as their excuse. If they tell the owner, your wiring was sub standard which caused fire. How can the owner counter that? He doesn't hafta. The burden of proof is on the insurance company. Have a nice week... Trent Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity! Hi, Are you a lawyer? I think burden of proof is on the owner. Not having a supporting document is already an onus on the owner, IMO. I am not a lawyer. A retired EE. BTW, inspector asked if I was an electrician when he came for an inspection. Tony |
#43
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Any risk in buying a house with finished basement without permit-Please advise
Basha wrote:
Hi, I am in house hunting for the last one month and found a suitable house recently. I am thinking of buying it. When I went to to get the survey map from the city governmemnt, I learned that they don't have a record of basement finished. The previous owner who actually completed the basement didn't get the permit for it. The basement has 2 bedrooms, one bathroom and a large family room with fire place. Is there any risk involved in buying this house? I would contact the local building inspection department to see if there is any way to have it inspected after the fact. If there is, insist that the seller do this, and correct any violations, before you close. If not, insist that the seller pay to have the basement checked out by a qualified building inspector and pay for any safety problems uncovered. Chuck |
#44
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Any risk in buying a house with finished basement without permit -Please advise
"Brad" wrote in message news:MPG.1a1e25161ac333bd98b986@news... On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:17:06 -0500, Brad wrote: Egress is a bunch of crap. Sure, it's a safety issue if you're going to use the room as a basement, but you either take it as an accepted risk or you don't live in the room. I lived in a basement with no egress for many years growing up at a time when more than 3/4 of the basements in my neighborhood were finished with nothing but a set of stairs going to the main floor and many of those had kids living in them. Just because we are an overly regulatory society does not mean that you have to have a friggin' big window in a basement to use it as a bedroom. Exactly. You cannot legally claim a space is a bedroom unless it meets egress requirements. You won't be able to claim the room as a bedroom when you sell the property. I don't think this stops too many people from using these as bedrooms. Nor should it. I certainly agree about the overly regulatory society. I'm still trying to figure out how we all survived during the "dark ages" when people actually had to think for themselves, and take calculated risks. It's a wonder that we all survived. Sure am glad I have someone else do that thinking for me. I feel much safer...................NOT Dave |
#45
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Any risk in buying a house with finished basement without permit -Please advise
I would contact the local building inspection department to see if there is any way to have it inspected after the fact. If there is, insist that the seller do this, and correct any violations, before you close. If not, insist that the seller pay to have the basement checked out by a qualified building inspector and pay for any safety problems uncovered. Chuck Having just sold and bought a house, the buyer pays for any inspection that he wants. The seller's obligation is to disclose truthfully what he knows about the property. At least around here that is the how it is done. -- Ron Port Dover Ontario |
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Any risk in buying a house with finished basement without permit -Please advise
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#47
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Any risk in buying a house with finished basement without permit -Please advise
I find it boring to have to read the same post over and over in its entirety
and assumed others did, too. On 13 Nov 2003 22:53:59 GMT, (Patscga) wrote: Please learn to quote the article to which you are responding. Tlle me what I did wrong. Pat Yer not including any of the header of the message to which yer responding, Pat. The above is a LITTLE better...but you need to include even more of the message that yer trying to answer. Have a nice week... Trent Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity! Pat |
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Any risk in buying a house with finished basement without permit -Please advise
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#51
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Any risk in buying a house with finished basement without permit-Please advise
Ron wrote:
I would contact the local building inspection department to see if there is any way to have it inspected after the fact. If there is, insist that the seller do this, and correct any violations, before you close. If not, insist that the seller pay to have the basement checked out by a qualified building inspector and pay for any safety problems uncovered. Chuck Having just sold and bought a house, the buyer pays for any inspection that he wants. The seller's obligation is to disclose truthfully what he knows about the property. At least around here that is the how it is done. If finishing the basement requires a permit and the seller did so without one then what they have done is ILLEGAL. This could create a mess for the buyer. In a situation like this it should be up to the seller to prove that the improvements were done safely. |
#52
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Any risk in buying a house with finished basement without permit -Please advise
In article , C G
said... Ron wrote: I would contact the local building inspection department to see if there is any way to have it inspected after the fact. If there is, insist that the seller do this, and correct any violations, before you close. If not, insist that the seller pay to have the basement checked out by a qualified building inspector and pay for any safety problems uncovered. Having just sold and bought a house, the buyer pays for any inspection that he wants. The seller's obligation is to disclose truthfully what he knows about the property. At least around here that is the how it is done. If finishing the basement requires a permit and the seller did so without one then what they have done is ILLEGAL. This could create a mess for the buyer. In a situation like this it should be up to the seller to prove that the improvements were done safely. It may be against the town's regulations, but it is hardly "ILLEGAL." It's about as illegal as speeding. |
#53
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Any risk in buying a house with finished basement without permit -Please advise
"Brad" wrote in message news:MPG.1a1f43b2ac83370d98b9a2@news... In article , C G said... Ron wrote: I would contact the local building inspection department to see if there is any way to have it inspected after the fact. If there is, insist that the seller do this, and correct any violations, before you close. If not, insist that the seller pay to have the basement checked out by a qualified building inspector and pay for any safety problems uncovered. Having just sold and bought a house, the buyer pays for any inspection that he wants. The seller's obligation is to disclose truthfully what he knows about the property. At least around here that is the how it is done. If finishing the basement requires a permit and the seller did so without one then what they have done is ILLEGAL. This could create a mess for the buyer. In a situation like this it should be up to the seller to prove that the improvements were done safely. It may be against the town's regulations, but it is hardly "ILLEGAL." It's about as illegal as speeding. Actually, IF work was done, that required proper permits, and they were NOT pulled, then, the local jurisdiction CAN have the work removed....fines will be issued in the least...here it is twice the original amount. IF the work was done by a non licenced person, in the event that a licenced person was required to do it, and no permits (of course) pulled, then the person that actually did the work can be hit with a felony charge, and jail time. Happens ALL the time in areas that follow the law...particularly here...in his particular area, it might not be the case. |
#54
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Any risk in buying a house with finished basement without permit-Please advise
Brad wrote:
It may be against the town's regulations, but it is hardly "ILLEGAL." It's about as illegal as speeding. I'd love to be in the courtroom when you try to use that kind of argument. |
#55
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Any risk in buying a house with finished basement without permit-Please advise
C G wrote: Brad wrote: It may be against the town's regulations, but it is hardly "ILLEGAL." It's about as illegal as speeding. I'd love to be in the courtroom when you try to use that kind of argument. Hi, Some folks have very interesting attitude towards law/regulations. Maybe law is there because of people like that. Very funny! Tony |
#56
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Any risk in buying a house with finished basement without permit -Please advise
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:33:13 -0500, Brad wrote:
Egress is a bunch of crap. Sure, it's a safety issue if you're going to use the room as a basement, but you either take it as an accepted risk or you don't live in the room. Then you won't buy the property! I lived in a basement with no egress for many years growing up at a time when more than 3/4 of the basements in my neighborhood were finished with nothing but a set of stairs going to the main floor and many of those had kids living in them. Gosh,you should thank the gods that you are alive today and didn't get roasted in a fire that trapped you in your cellar! Just because we are an overly regulatory society does not mean that you have to have a friggin' big window in a basement to use it as a bedroom. Not a ****in' big window, just one that is adequate for a person to use to escape in necessary! (Call a ****ing spade a spade for the gods sake - what are you trying to prove with your ****ing use of the word "friggin'" ? (You ain't fooling anyone!) |
#57
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Any risk in buying a house with finished basement without permit -Please advise
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:08:22 GMT, "DaveG" wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out how we all survived during the "dark ages" when people actually had to think for themselves, and take calculated risks. did you ever consider that everyone didn't survive? |
#58
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Any risk in buying a house with finished basement without permit -Please advise
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:56:53 -0500, "Ron" wrote:
Having just sold and bought a house, the buyer pays for any inspection that he wants. The seller's obligation is to disclose truthfully what he knows about the property. Apparently it is more than just a matter of "home inspection" in this case considerable construction modification were made to the property without pulling appropriate permits and having the work inspected by the appropriate code enforcement authorities - this is something that the seller should be expected to resolve before settlement and the closing on the property at the time of the sale! |
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Any risk in buying a house with finished basement without permit-Please advise
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#60
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Any risk in buying a house with finished basement without permit -Please advise
On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:58:23 -0500, someone wrote:
That's not true at all. I sold a house last year with a basement that I did off the books. I also know many people that have done the same thing and had no problem. It is quite a common occurrence, legal or not. As a practical matter, I agree to the extent that it would be OK with 'the bank' as long as the illegally finished area is not being relied upon to acheive the required value of the property. OTOH if the bank thinks it is mortgaging a 4-bedroom 3 bath home, but one bedroom and one bath are illegal in the basement, then they sure as hell WOULD care, IF their appraiser was on the ball enough to catch it, which he should, but often will not. -v. |
#61
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Any risk in buying a house with finished basement without permit -Please advise
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:40:06 GMT, someone wrote:
I would contact the local building inspection department to see if there is any way to have it inspected after the fact. If there is, insist that the seller do this, and correct any violations, before you close. If not, insist that the seller pay to have the basement checked out by a qualified building inspector and pay for any safety problems uncovered. Chuck Then he will never buy this house. The seller will not agree to those condition, PLUS will hate his guts for turning him in to the city. And after he has to pay thos big fines and compliance costs, he will now want more for the house since the addition is now legal! (Or, the city makes him tear it out; did the buyer WANT those features? Just shot himself in the foot!) -v. |
#62
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Any risk in buying a house with finished basement without permit -Please advise
On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 01:46:53 GMT, someone wrote:
Brad wrote: It may be against the town's regulations, but it is hardly "ILLEGAL." It's about as illegal as speeding. I'd love to be in the courtroom when you try to use that kind of argument. Here at my office, my landlord got summonsed in to court for letting me move in before the handicapped rails were installed in the bathroom!!!! -v. |
#63
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Any risk in buying a house with finished basement without permit-Please advise
v wrote:
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:40:06 GMT, someone wrote: I would contact the local building inspection department to see if there is any way to have it inspected after the fact. If there is, insist that the seller do this, and correct any violations, before you close. If not, insist that the seller pay to have the basement checked out by a qualified building inspector and pay for any safety problems uncovered. Chuck Then he will never buy this house. The seller will not agree to those condition, PLUS will hate his guts for turning him in to the city. How do you know what the seller will or will not agree to? The seller has put himself in a very bad negotiating position by making unpermitted improvements to his house. Who said anything about turning him into the city? And after he has to pay thos big fines and compliance costs, he will now want more for the house since the addition is now legal! All based on your incorrect assumption that the city found out. (Or, the city makes him tear it out; did the buyer WANT those features? Just shot himself in the foot!) Might be better than buying a house with shoddy, unsafe modifications. |
#64
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Any risk in buying a house with finished basement without permit -Please advise
Actually, I was referring to the guy that stated that the tax man dont care
if you dont pay taxes on the finished basement. For some reason, my newsreader didnt reply with his message. |
#65
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Any risk in buying a house with finished basement without permit -Please advise
Usually if you pullout the stove and sink the banks' inspector will overlook
the basement's lack of permit. I would see what happens. "C G" wrote in message .. . Basha wrote: Hi, I am in house hunting for the last one month and found a suitable house recently. I am thinking of buying it. When I went to to get the survey map from the city governmemnt, I learned that they don't have a record of basement finished. The previous owner who actually completed the basement didn't get the permit for it. The basement has 2 bedrooms, one bathroom and a large family room with fire place. Is there any risk involved in buying this house? I would contact the local building inspection department to see if there is any way to have it inspected after the fact. If there is, insist that the seller do this, and correct any violations, before you close. If not, insist that the seller pay to have the basement checked out by a qualified building inspector and pay for any safety problems uncovered. Chuck |
#66
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Any risk in buying a house with finished basement without permit -Please advise
I agree with V. If you turn the seller into the city he will hate you and
probably find a way not to sell you the house. But if it's important to you to get everything aboveboard then you will have to take the chance and see what happens. The bank that inspects the house may require the permits anyway. However, they may overlook the basement. It all depends. "v" wrote in message ... On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:40:06 GMT, someone wrote: I would contact the local building inspection department to see if there is any way to have it inspected after the fact. If there is, insist that the seller do this, and correct any violations, before you close. If not, insist that the seller pay to have the basement checked out by a qualified building inspector and pay for any safety problems uncovered. Chuck Then he will never buy this house. The seller will not agree to those condition, PLUS will hate his guts for turning him in to the city. And after he has to pay thos big fines and compliance costs, he will now want more for the house since the addition is now legal! (Or, the city makes him tear it out; did the buyer WANT those features? Just shot himself in the foot!) -v. |
#67
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Any risk in buying a house with finished basement without permit-Please advise
What are you talking about?
Houseslave wrote: Usually if you pullout the stove and sink the banks' inspector will overlook the basement's lack of permit. I would see what happens. "C G" wrote in message .. . Basha wrote: Hi, I am in house hunting for the last one month and found a suitable house recently. I am thinking of buying it. When I went to to get the survey map from the city governmemnt, I learned that they don't have a record of basement finished. The previous owner who actually completed the basement didn't get the permit for it. The basement has 2 bedrooms, one bathroom and a large family room with fire place. Is there any risk involved in buying this house? I would contact the local building inspection department to see if there is any way to have it inspected after the fact. If there is, insist that the seller do this, and correct any violations, before you close. If not, insist that the seller pay to have the basement checked out by a qualified building inspector and pay for any safety problems uncovered. Chuck |
#68
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Any risk in buying a house with finished basement without permit-Please advise
"Trent©" wrote:
On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 03:24:50 GMT, (v) wrote: On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:58:23 -0500, someone wrote: That's not true at all. I sold a house last year with a basement that I did off the books. I also know many people that have done the same thing and had no problem. It is quite a common occurrence, legal or not. As a practical matter, I agree to the extent that it would be OK with 'the bank' as long as the illegally finished area is not being relied upon to acheive the required value of the property. OTOH if the bank thinks it is mortgaging a 4-bedroom 3 bath home, but one bedroom and one bath are illegal in the basement, then they sure as hell WOULD care, IF their appraiser was on the ball enough to catch it, which he should, but often will not. -v. All the banks pretty much care about is if the building really exists...and if you have insurance on it for the amount of your loan. They don't care what the inside looks like. Many homes, of course, are sold for cash. This is a bit inaccurate. The banks want to be sure that the house can be sold for at least the amount of the mortgate in case you default. This is part of why they insist on an appraisal, which includes an assessment of the inside and outside of the house. And very few rooms inside the house have any designated purpose. Special-purpose fixtures...like a toilet, sink, lack of window, etc...can sometimes designate the purpose. But other rooms can simply be designated as whatever the present owner wants to do with it. Maybe in your mind, but not necessarily in the minds of the appraiser or the tax authority. Generally, if a room has a closet it is considered a bedroom. Many people get around a bedroom limitation on their septic permit by adding rooms which do not contain a closet. My house is over 100 years old...and has gone from 2 bedroom to 4 bedroom to 2 bedroom about a half-dozen times...depending on how the current owner uses the various rooms. I now have a 2 bedroom...with a computer room and a large storage room. You are talking about how you are using the rooms, not how it would be classified on an appraisal or tax evaluation. My house will be advertised as a 4 bedroom when and if I sell it. It was listed as a 4 bedroom when I bought it...and it had 2 beds in the house when I took the tour. Counting beds to evaluate the actual number of bedrooms is meaningless. I have a 4 bedroom beach house, which contains 5 beds. Should I have it reclassified as a 5 bedrrom because of the bed count? Of course not. Chuck |
#69
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Any risk in buying a house with finished basement without permit -Please advise
The only party that is concerned with all the permits is the buyer and the
buyer's bank. If the bank doesn't ask for the permits then the buyer has to make a deciscion whether or not they care. Many banks will tell you to cover up the stove so they can give the OK for the mortgage. |
#70
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Any risk in buying a house with finished basement without permit -Please advise
On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 15:33:25 GMT, "Houseslave"
wrote: Usually if you pullout the stove and sink the banks' inspector will overlook the basement's lack of permit. What sink and stove? If you try to sell a house without a sink in my area you would never get a loan and if you tried that without a stove where I came from you would never get a c.o.! |
#71
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Any risk in buying a house with finished basement without permit -Please advise
On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 18:31:25 GMT, "Houseslave"
wrote: The only party that is concerned with all the permits is the buyer and the buyer's bank. If the bank doesn't ask for the permits then the buyer has to make a deciscion whether or not they care. Many banks will tell you to cover up the stove so they can give the OK for the mortgage. Maybe in the rural slum where you have your hovel, but you can't get a C.O. without everything being up to code or grand fathered here! |
#72
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Any risk in buying a house with finished basement without permit-Please advise
"Trent©" wrote:
On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 15:52:08 GMT, C G wrote: All the banks pretty much care about is if the building really exists...and if you have insurance on it for the amount of your loan. They don't care what the inside looks like. Many homes, of course, are sold for cash. This is a bit inaccurate. The banks want to be sure that the house can be sold for at least the amount of the mortgate in case you default. This is part of why they insist on an appraisal, which includes an assessment of the inside and outside of the house. What I said was 'for the amount of the loan'. We're way beyond the point already that you bring up here. The loan has already been approved...yer credit has been checked, etc. Now they go out and see if there's a building there...and if that building is worth 120% (roughly) of what you want to borrow...assuming their gonna give you an 80-20 loan. What you said is the banks only care that you have insurance for the amount of the loan. Now you are changing what you said to confirm my clarification. And, in my area, the appraisers NEVER come inside the house...nor do the insurance companies. Its a waste of time for them. All the insurance companies hafta do is ask questions about the house over the phone. Most will come out later and take a picture of the place...again, to verify that the building exists. In this area, and many other areas in the country, the appraisers come inside the house. The finish and condition of the interior is a significant factor in coming up with an accurate estimate. And, unless you have a newly built home, they have a database to do any necessary comparison checking. They still do an appraisal which includes a walk through. And very few rooms inside the house have any designated purpose. Special-purpose fixtures...like a toilet, sink, lack of window, etc...can sometimes designate the purpose. But other rooms can simply be designated as whatever the present owner wants to do with it. Maybe in your mind, but not necessarily in the minds of the appraiser or the tax authority. Generally, if a room has a closet it is considered a bedroom. Many people get around a bedroom limitation on their septic permit by adding rooms which do not contain a closet. I've seen a lot of hallways with closets...and a lot of other rooms that were not bedrooms with closets, also. And there are a LOT of bedrooms WITHOUT closets. My house has 2 of them. Many of the older houses were built without closets in the bedroom. The room I'm sitting in now has a closet. I use it as a computer room for some of my computers. Its not on the tax assessment as a bedroom...simply because I don't USE it as a bedroom. But it was listed as a bedroom before. The tax assesor does not care how you use the room. They care if it could function as a bedroom. Are you sure it is not listed as a bedroom? My house is over 100 years old...and has gone from 2 bedroom to 4 bedroom to 2 bedroom about a half-dozen times...depending on how the current owner uses the various rooms. I now have a 2 bedroom...with a computer room and a large storage room. You are talking about how you are using the rooms, not how it would be classified on an appraisal or tax evaluation. They are classified as how you use them. Why would you think otherwise? You are simply wrong on this. No matter how many times you say it you will still be wrong. I cannot reduce the number of bedrooms in my house by merely not using a room as a bedroom. You can continue to delude yourself, but you will not delude the tax assesor. Perhaps an older house which has bedrooms without closets could have this happen, but not a typical house built in the last 30 or 40 years. My house will be advertised as a 4 bedroom when and if I sell it. It was listed as a 4 bedroom when I bought it...and it had 2 beds in the house when I took the tour. Counting beds to evaluate the actual number of bedrooms is meaningless. I have a 4 bedroom beach house, which contains 5 beds. Should I have it reclassified as a 5 bedrrom because of the bed count? Of course not. Of course not. If you have a bed in your bathroom...that doesn't make that room a bedroom. And you can also have 2 beds in the same room. I don't know where that 5th bed is located. But if you have a full-size bed in a room, its pretty much an indication that you expect someone to sleep in it...ergo, its a bedroom. And a lack of a bed does not magically make it not a bedroom. The BEGINNING test for a bedroom is...is the primary purpose of that room to have someone sleep in it. Then more logical testing is done. Talk to a tax assessor or appraiser some time. I think you will find that your test is misguided. |
#73
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Any risk in buying a house with finished basement without permit-Please advise
"Trent©" wrote:
On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 20:43:54 GMT, C G wrote: The tax assesor does not care how you use the room. They care if it could function as a bedroom. Are you sure it is not listed as a bedroom? If they don't care how you use the room, why would they care if it can function as a bedroom? Because that is part of the way they price houses. They are classified as how you use them. Why would you think otherwise? You are simply wrong on this. No matter how many times you say it you will still be wrong. I cannot reduce the number of bedrooms in my house by merely not using a room as a bedroom. You can continue to delude yourself, but you will not delude the tax assesor. Perhaps an older house which has bedrooms without closets could have this happen, but not a typical house built in the last 30 or 40 years. If I am 'simply wrong', how can there be any 'perhaps'? lol There are millions of homes that are over 40 years old. On my block along, there are 30 homes that are over 100 years old. And millions more that are newer than 40 years old. But if you have a full-size bed in a room, its pretty much an indication that you expect someone to sleep in it...ergo, its a bedroom. And a lack of a bed does not magically make it not a bedroom. I think you've got your mindset inside that 30 year old house. Take a tour sometime of a 100 year old house. Those get appraised, too. And the appraisers still can figure out which room is a bedroom, regardless of whether it has a bed or not. The BEGINNING test for a bedroom is...is the primary purpose of that room to have someone sleep in it. Then more logical testing is done. Talk to a tax assessor or appraiser some time. I think you will find that your test is misguided. Again...I think you're thinking of only the newer homes...half or full bath built next to a room large enough to accommodate a bed. Pretty much defines the room, doesn't it. But rooms in older homes aren't as definitive. Whatever. Continue to delude yourself if you want. The tax person is more than capable of figuring it out. |
#74
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Any risk in buying a house with finished basement without permit -Please advise
OK.
I went to the city office directly and talked to one of the inspectors and few other guys in community development, construction and engineering dept. They said, once the construction is done they are not going to give any permit and they are not going to come to the house to check it. They also said the previous owner completed the basement and may not have reported to city to save some taxes. I asked is part of the house "ILLEGAL". They said it is not called illegal but improper, also said there are quiet a no of people who don't report their enhancements to their houses which may involve adding a bathroom or bedroom etc. The risk is whether they have done the proper electic and plumbing work or not. I asked him how to ensure whether it is done in a proper way. He told me it is very difficult to find out once it is done. It may involve tearingup the sheets covering the electric and plumbing work. He also advised me to ask the seller to put a $10k in an escrow account which cover up the costs if anything happens in the next 3 or 5 years. If nothing happens at the end of 3 or 5 years, seller will get the money back. Anyways, my realtor brought a market analysis of the houses in this area (Plymouth, Minnesota) and we came to an amount which we can offer. We offred the seller 5k more than the average selling price and also I bear all the minor repairs in the house. The average price is 20k less than the seller's list price. Repairs in the house a One of the closet door broke may need a replacement, all the sloset doors are stick to the carpet and are difficult to open and they may need a half inch cut at the bottom of the doors. Family room doesn't have the the air intake, hot air comes from the furnace but there is no vent to take the air from that room. It's a closed room. Back side of the house some of the vinyl sheets came out of the wall. It needs a fix and there are many other small things. Those I can do myself. (My realtor said the total may cost around $3000). 2 days back we bid with condition-asking the seller to put the money $10k in escrow account. Seller rejected the bid asking $10k more and didn't like the condition of keeping the money in escrow account. That's what happend in the last week. The house is 1994 built, split level completely finished (2260sft) in Plymouth, Minnesota. (suburb of Minneapolis) -Basha |
#75
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Any risk in buying a house with finished basement without permit -Please advise
On 17 Nov 2003 11:26:50 -0800, someone wrote:
... He also advised me to ask the seller to put a $10k in an escrow account which cover up the costs if anything happens in the next 3 or 5 years. If nothing happens at the end of 3 or 5 years, seller will get the money back. Shows you what happens when you take real estate advice from an inspector. Chances slim to none that any seller would agree to skip $10,000 for 3 to 5 years, based on the buyer not coming up with "ANYTHING" in that time. What a crock of bull, you showed yourself to be a fool if you tried to impose this under those circumstances. (BTW, what did your bank think of the $10k escrow? Or didn't you ask them yet.) -v. |
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Any risk in buying a house with finished basement without permit -Please advise
On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 04:21:00 GMT, someone wrote:
I would contact the local building inspection department to see if there is any way to have it inspected after the fact. If there is, insist that the seller do this, and correct any violations, before you close. If not, insist that the seller pay to have the basement checked out by a qualified building inspector and pay for any safety problems uncovered. Then he will never buy this house. The seller will not agree to those condition, PLUS will hate his guts for turning him in to the city. How do you know what the seller will or will not agree to? Have you bought many properties where the Seller agreed to pay for *any* problems that turned up? I have been buying and selling for over 20 years and it just doesn't happen frequently enought to be a realistic suggestion. (I've never seen it happen at all, but in then infinity of the net, am leaving a way out.) Sure the Buyer can have an inspection. But the Seller is HIGHLY UNLIKELY TO THE POINT OF IT BEING RIDICULOUS TO EVEN WASTE YOUR TIME ASKING, to agree to fix "any" problem found. Buyer can show the Seller the problems and ask, or even get an agreement that (say) the first $1,000 in repairs is covered, but rational sellers will not agree to open ended clauses that encourage the Buyer to try to get a free renovation out of the sale. And if you ask for unreasonable stuff, you are likely to **** off the Seller and get thrown out of the deal and NOT get any concessions. And don't say how do I know the Seller won't NEGOTIATE, SURE he probably WILL "negotiate", but that is not the same as agreeing to your ridiculous terms. Whatever makes you think he WILL agree? And DON'T say there is no harm in asking, there certainly is, if you knew anything about negotiation. -v. |
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Any risk in buying a house with finished basement without permit -Please advise
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Any risk in buying a house with finished basement without permit-Please advise
v wrote:
On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 04:21:00 GMT, someone wrote: I would contact the local building inspection department to see if there is any way to have it inspected after the fact. If there is, insist that the seller do this, and correct any violations, before you close. If not, insist that the seller pay to have the basement checked out by a qualified building inspector and pay for any safety problems uncovered. Then he will never buy this house. The seller will not agree to those condition, PLUS will hate his guts for turning him in to the city. How do you know what the seller will or will not agree to? Have you bought many properties where the Seller agreed to pay for *any* problems that turned up? I have been buying and selling for over 20 years and it just doesn't happen frequently enought to be a realistic suggestion. (I've never seen it happen at all, but in then infinity of the net, am leaving a way out.) Yes, I have. If there is a problem that needs to be fixed the seller is going to have to either pay for it, lower the price, or tell the buyer "no deal". Sure the Buyer can have an inspection. But the Seller is HIGHLY UNLIKELY TO THE POINT OF IT BEING RIDICULOUS TO EVEN WASTE YOUR TIME ASKING, to agree to fix "any" problem found. Buyer can show the Seller the problems and ask, or even get an agreement that (say) the first $1,000 in repairs is covered, but rational sellers will not agree to open ended clauses that encourage the Buyer to try to get a free renovation out of the sale. And if you ask for unreasonable stuff, you are likely to **** off the Seller and get thrown out of the deal and NOT get any concessions. The trouble with this seller is that he did something in violation of local building regs. The buyer in this case has him by the balls. And don't say how do I know the Seller won't NEGOTIATE, SURE he probably WILL "negotiate", but that is not the same as agreeing to your ridiculous terms. Whatever makes you think he WILL agree? And DON'T say there is no harm in asking, there certainly is, if you knew anything about negotiation. Are you finished arguing with yourself? I never said he would agree. However, since he's in a pretty difficult situation, the odds are good he would. |
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Any risk in buying a house with finished basement without permit-Please advise
v wrote:
On 17 Nov 2003 11:26:50 -0800, someone wrote: ... He also advised me to ask the seller to put a $10k in an escrow account which cover up the costs if anything happens in the next 3 or 5 years. If nothing happens at the end of 3 or 5 years, seller will get the money back. Shows you what happens when you take real estate advice from an inspector. Chances slim to none that any seller would agree to skip $10,000 for 3 to 5 years, based on the buyer not coming up with "ANYTHING" in that time. What a crock of bull, you showed yourself to be a fool if you tried to impose this under those circumstances. You're just full of yourself aren't you? It must be an awesome task to be omniscient. "The seller won't do this". "The seller won't agree to that". You should write some books to share your amazing grasp on human behaviour. |
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Any risk in buying a house with finished basement without permit -Please advise
Just some friendly advice:
Real estate people don't give reliable estimates of what repairs will cost. Especially when you are the buyer, and the recipient of these estimates. It's not their area of expertise, really, but they do have ample motivation to answer those questions and smooth things over. $3000 may cover it, maybe only if done poorly by a very low quality contractor. It may not even cover it then. Also, asking a seller to throw $10k in escrow against unknown problems is pretty wishful thinking - think about it, given reversed roles, would you be willing to do it? There's always someone, somewhere, who will buy as is. The bottom line is that any house is a risk. Even one unmodified by the owner, in apparently good shape could have killer black mold hanging around somewhere waiting to bloom. You'll drive yourself nuts trying to cover every liability. In the end, you have to seek trusted advice about what real problems the house has, use your own eyes, and make a decision. Find or hire an independant handyman, and pay to have him estimate the work that needs to be done - then you know, and you have a somewhat documented case for adjusting the price to cover repairs. Also, the handyman/contractor's advice about the house would be a valuable addition to the inspector's. Inspector's are good for checking some major things, and certain safety things, but they miss some very obvious things you will end up having to fix. Just remember, when you are the buyer, and the agent says "Oh, that? That's no problem!" they really mean "Oh, that? That's no problem....for me!" "Basha" wrote in message m... OK. I went to the city office directly and talked to one of the inspectors and few other guys in community development, construction and engineering dept. They said, once the construction is done they are not going to give any permit and they are not going to come to the house to check it. They also said the previous owner completed the basement and may not have reported to city to save some taxes. I asked is part of the house "ILLEGAL". They said it is not called illegal but improper, also said there are quiet a no of people who don't report their enhancements to their houses which may involve adding a bathroom or bedroom etc. The risk is whether they have done the proper electic and plumbing work or not. I asked him how to ensure whether it is done in a proper way. He told me it is very difficult to find out once it is done. It may involve tearingup the sheets covering the electric and plumbing work. He also advised me to ask the seller to put a $10k in an escrow account which cover up the costs if anything happens in the next 3 or 5 years. If nothing happens at the end of 3 or 5 years, seller will get the money back. Anyways, my realtor brought a market analysis of the houses in this area (Plymouth, Minnesota) and we came to an amount which we can offer. We offred the seller 5k more than the average selling price and also I bear all the minor repairs in the house. The average price is 20k less than the seller's list price. Repairs in the house a One of the closet door broke may need a replacement, all the sloset doors are stick to the carpet and are difficult to open and they may need a half inch cut at the bottom of the doors. Family room doesn't have the the air intake, hot air comes from the furnace but there is no vent to take the air from that room. It's a closed room. Back side of the house some of the vinyl sheets came out of the wall. It needs a fix and there are many other small things. Those I can do myself. (My realtor said the total may cost around $3000). 2 days back we bid with condition-asking the seller to put the money $10k in escrow account. Seller rejected the bid asking $10k more and didn't like the condition of keeping the money in escrow account. That's what happend in the last week. The house is 1994 built, split level completely finished (2260sft) in Plymouth, Minnesota. (suburb of Minneapolis) -Basha |
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