Probably the heat pump vs. standard a/c replacement debate was fairly worn
out some time ago in this NG, but the proof in the pudding should always be
happy users. In Dallas, Texas where I live I am having trouble finding them.
You would think anyone selling an upgrade from standard to a heat pump (my
pertinent specs below) would be walking in the door with ten customers to
call who had been on heat pumps at least one season. No so with the five
estimates I got (3 Trane, 1 Lennox, 1 American Standard dealer). Not one
offered references, with only one of those eventually coughing up three in
the "eleventh hour." Worse, in checking *his* references, only one was
actually a heat pump user, but useless as reference since the installation
was only two weeks old. Sorry, but this should not be that difficult an
exercise. (OK, so I picked a sorry time of the year when it's a zillion
degrees and A/C contractors are covered up here, but I had the same issue on
an estimate back in Jan.) Anyway, I'm tempted to conclude from this
"reference reluctance" that heat pumps are not a good return on investment
for this region of Texas, maybe even inappropriate since cooling is a far
bigger factor than heating. The only people I have talked to so far 100% in
support of HPs are the people who sell them! Something is not right. If
you are a sold-on-heat-pump user in *our* area (DFW) or, if you have had a
recent HP installation you regret, I would like to hear from you, either
way.

Thanks,

Mike (just-trying-to-understand) in Dallas

-existing setup, environment:
-all-electric home (no gas available)
-1600 square feet (includes a loft)
-day-nite (step child of Carrier) 4-ton standard ac
-18 years old
-using existing ducts
-return air surface only 638 square inches (I understand this may be
inadequate to get full efficiency from a heat pump)
-prefer a cool house in the winter (hardly ever over 65)
-prefer a cool house mostly at night in summer (typical Dallas summer nights
are a muggy-hot 80+)
-inside vents are noisy (& concerned they may be even more so with a heat
pump.)
-lots of cooking in the kitchen, which is small & heats up very quickly

system we are considering:
-Trane 12 Seer Heat Pump 4-ton
-Variable Speed Air Handler
-Standard Filter (existing closet height won't accomodate 4-inch perfect fit
media filter)
-$5800 installed (add $766 for 10-year warranty)

"mheatley" wrote in message
news:Pa82b.247443$uu5.53007@sccrnsc04...
Probably the heat pump vs. standard a/c replacement debate was fairly worn
out some time ago in this NG, but the proof in the pudding should always
be
happy users. In Dallas, Texas where I live I am having trouble finding
them.
You would think anyone selling an upgrade from standard to a heat pump (my
pertinent specs below) would be walking in the door with ten customers to
call who had been on heat pumps at least one season. No so with the five
estimates I got (3 Trane, 1 Lennox, 1 American Standard dealer). Not one
offered references, with only one of those eventually coughing up three in
the "eleventh hour." Worse, in checking *his* references, only one was
actually a heat pump user, but useless as reference since the installation
was only two weeks old. Sorry, but this should not be that difficult an
exercise. (OK, so I picked a sorry time of the year when it's a zillion
degrees and A/C contractors are covered up here, but I had the same issue
on
an estimate back in Jan.) Anyway, I'm tempted to conclude from this
"reference reluctance" that heat pumps are not a good return on investment
for this region of Texas, maybe even inappropriate since cooling is a far
bigger factor than heating. The only people I have talked to so far 100%
in
support of HPs are the people who sell them! Something is not right. If
you are a sold-on-heat-pump user in *our* area (DFW) or, if you have had a
recent HP installation you regret, I would like to hear from you, either
way.

Thanks,

Mike (just-trying-to-understand) in Dallas

-existing setup, environment:
-all-electric home (no gas available)
-1600 square feet (includes a loft)
-day-nite (step child of Carrier) 4-ton standard ac
-18 years old
-using existing ducts
-return air surface only 638 square inches (I understand this may be
inadequate to get full efficiency from a heat pump)
-prefer a cool house in the winter (hardly ever over 65)
-prefer a cool house mostly at night in summer (typical Dallas summer
nights
are a muggy-hot 80+)
-inside vents are noisy (& concerned they may be even more so with a heat
pump.)
-lots of cooking in the kitchen, which is small & heats up very quickly

system we are considering:
-Trane 12 Seer Heat Pump 4-ton
-Variable Speed Air Handler
-Standard Filter (existing closet height won't accomodate 4-inch perfect
fit
media filter)
-$5800 installed (add $766 for 10-year warranty)

This is Turtle.

1) if your going with the veriable speed blowers do take the $766.00
warrenty for you will need it when you have to replace the $900.00 veriable
speed blower motor change out. Just like clock work your going to change it
out in less than 10 years.

2) If you live in D/FW area and have only electricity to have and no
natural gas access go heat pump for sure. The heap pump will save you about
30% over the straight electric heat and No I don't like to have to use heat
pumps but they do have their place in this industry. They have shorter lifes
and require more repairs down the road because of having more bells and
whisles on them.

3) You saying you have 638 sq. inches of return duct surfice for the
return air. I have never heard of any 4 ton system of any kind requiring
more than 600 sq. inches of return air duct size to be good.

4) The 4 tons of cooling sounds a little big but what was the heat load
calculation say?

5) The noise level for gas , heat pump , or straight electric system are
all about the same on noise levels at discharge of registers.

6) You say the kitchen area heats up quickly during cooking. The veriable
speed blower will take care of this.

7) The 4-inch Media filter. What is that your using here? A 1 inch media
filter will be just fine unless your wanting a clean room for putting
computor paerts together in it and don't want no air borne particals in the
air. A 4 inch will be over kill here for a home unless your name is Howard
Hughes and want everything spotless.

8) Heat pump verses a straight electric heat --- It all depend on your
electric company as to what you pay for electricity. If you choose a heat
pump. Take your elctric bill from last winter and subtract about 10% to 15%
from them and you will see your savings for putting in a heat pump and
paying more down the road for repairs. Judgement call here.

TURTLE

Thanks Turtle, this is Mike the Original Poster, my answers to your (very
helpful) questions/comments inserted below, my original long post was
snipped to save eyestrain.


"
This is Turtle.

1) if your going with the veriable speed blowers do take the $766.00
warrenty for you will need it when you have to replace the $900.00
veriable
speed blower motor change out. Just like clock work your going to change
it
out in less than 10 years.

yes, I wouldn't consider an upgrade this big without buying the warranty,
you've confirmed my decision on that


2) If you live in D/FW area and have only electricity to have and no
natural gas access go heat pump for sure. The heap pump will save you
about
30% over the straight electric heat and No I don't like to have to use
heat
pumps but they do have their place in this industry. They have shorter
lifes
and require more repairs down the road because of having more bells and
whisles on them.

** I hear a lot bout saving 30% on heating bills, only not alot from
satisfied HP customers in DFW, besides heating has never been a complaint
here, it's the cooling eating my sack lunch

3) You saying you have 638 sq. inches of return duct surfice for the
return air. I have never heard of any 4 ton system of any kind requiring
more than 600 sq. inches of return air duct size to be good.

**good, then I won't worry bout that anymore, a technician brought that up
so what I need to be worrying bout is selecting a competent tech.

4) The 4 tons of cooling sounds a little big but what was the heat load
calculation say?

**no one offered a heat load calc, so I can't answer that one

5) The noise level for gas , heat pump , or straight electric system are
all about the same on noise levels at discharge of registers.

** "bout the same" is OK as long as it doesn't mean the new installation
will be any noiser

6) You say the kitchen area heats up quickly during cooking. The
veriable
speed blower will take care of this.

**good to hear that, won't worry bout that either, sounds like the only way
to go with a HP is to include the VSAH, however I had one tech leave it out
of the estimate in favor of the Media Filter

7) The 4-inch Media filter. What is that your using here? A 1 inch media
filter will be just fine

**I thought the 1-inch was simply a pleated filter (trane estimate), not
media, my terminology suffers here because of innaccurate info from the
techs I've endured so far

unless your wanting a clean room for putting
computor paerts together in it and don't want no air borne particals in
the
air. A 4 inch will be over kill here for a home unless your name is Howard
Hughes and want everything spotless.

**well, I do suffer rather severe allergies, DFW is the ragweed capital of
the world

8) Heat pump verses a straight electric heat --- It all depend on your
electric company as to what you pay for electricity.

**I pay a bunch, I will be glad to swap providers with you

If you choose a heat
pump. Take your elctric bill from last winter and subtract about 10% to
15%

** I thought it was 30%, but I'd be happy with 15% too

from them and you will see your savings for putting in a heat pump and
paying more down the road for repairs.

**with a 10-yr warranty, why would I be concerned over repairs, are the
newer machines getting less reliable? also, what brand do you reccommend?
I'm hearing from users the Tranes may be overrated, I am adding Carrier to
my list of considerations, thanks for your quick answers to my post, feel
much better now about going HP eventhough what I really need is to hear what
you're telling me from *users.*

Judgement call here.

TURTLE