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Pat Keith
 
Posts: n/a
Default Concrete retaining wall issue revisited.

Whay happens if the wall falls? Will anyone be injured? Property damage?
How would you like to defend yourself in court and have these e-mails appear
as proof you knew there was a problem? The repairs you mentioned are
cosmetic and would increase the danger.


  #2   Report Post  
jeff
 
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Default Concrete retaining wall issue revisited.

What is happening to the soil above the wall? How long is the slope
above it, and what is on it? Do you see any tension cracks in the soil
uphill from the wall? Are there any structures uphill? Is it possible
that the whole slope is moving slowly?

Are there any large or heavy structures uphill? Could anyone be injured
if it collapses? Would there likely be property damage? Or is it a
cosmetic or convenience problem? I would let my decision be guided by
those factors.

The retaining wall is perpendicular to the front of my house. It is
alongside my driveway, and separates my driveway from my front lawn. The
wall exists because my front lawn is around 3.5 feet higher than my
driveway, since my garage is basement level. My front lawn is relatively
flat, but since, over the years, the soil behind the wall has gone through
the weep holes, a small section of lawn that is immediately behind the wall
happens to be at a slightly lower level than the rest of the lawn and is
sloped downward toward the wall. We're only talking about section of grass
that is a foot or two behind the wall and is only sloping downard by say 6
to 9 inches tops. Other than that, there is no slope, and the only reason
there is a slope is because soil has gone through the weep holes over the
years.

If the wall fell (and, to me, it doesn't look like it's about to fall) it
would fall onto my concrete driveway, and would just be an inconvenience
unless this could potentially damage the concrete driveway.

Jeff


  #3   Report Post  
jeff
 
Posts: n/a
Default Concrete retaining wall issue revisited.

What is happening to the soil above the wall? How long is the slope
above it, and what is on it? Do you see any tension cracks in the soil
uphill from the wall? Are there any structures uphill? Is it possible
that the whole slope is moving slowly?

Are there any large or heavy structures uphill? Could anyone be injured
if it collapses? Would there likely be property damage? Or is it a
cosmetic or convenience problem? I would let my decision be guided by
those factors.

The retaining wall is perpendicular to the front of my house. It is
alongside my driveway, and separates my driveway from my front lawn. The
wall exists because my front lawn is around 3.5 feet higher than my
driveway, since my garage is basement level. My front lawn is relatively
flat, but since, over the years, the soil behind the wall has gone through
the weep holes, a small section of lawn that is immediately behind the wall
happens to be at a slightly lower level than the rest of the lawn and is
sloped downward toward the wall. We're only talking about section of grass
that is a foot or two behind the wall and is only sloping downard by say 6
to 9 inches tops. Other than that, there is no slope, and the only reason
there is a slope is because soil has gone through the weep holes over the
years.

If the wall fell (and, to me, it doesn't look like it's about to fall) it
would fall onto my concrete driveway, and would just be an inconvenience
unless this could potentially damage the concrete driveway.

Jeff


  #4   Report Post  
jeff
 
Posts: n/a
Default Concrete retaining wall issue revisited.

Whay happens if the wall falls? Will anyone be injured? Property damage?
How would you like to defend yourself in court and have these e-mails appear
as proof you knew there was a problem?

The wall has shifted 1 inch along the horizontal crack, and if I look at it
ver carefully I notice it is leaning very slightly, but I'm not yet
convinced it's actually about to fall anytime soon. It sounds like you
think it's about to fall. Anyway, if the wall fell, it would fall onto my
concrete driveway.

Jeff


  #5   Report Post  
jeff
 
Posts: n/a
Default Concrete retaining wall issue revisited.

Whay happens if the wall falls? Will anyone be injured? Property damage?
How would you like to defend yourself in court and have these e-mails appear
as proof you knew there was a problem?

The wall has shifted 1 inch along the horizontal crack, and if I look at it
ver carefully I notice it is leaning very slightly, but I'm not yet
convinced it's actually about to fall anytime soon. It sounds like you
think it's about to fall. Anyway, if the wall fell, it would fall onto my
concrete driveway.

Jeff




  #6   Report Post  
Art Begun
 
Posts: n/a
Default Concrete retaining wall issue revisited.

You need a mason that other mason's hire when they have a problem. He
would probably recommend digging out the back of the wall, putting in
drainage tile and fabric properly (so gravel is separate from dirt and
neither goes thru weepholes). He might also be able to reinforce the
current wall after pushing it back in position. Call a few large
masonry companies and ask who they use to solve their problems. If
you live in Raleigh, NC I could tell you the right guy to look at it.


  #7   Report Post  
Art Begun
 
Posts: n/a
Default Concrete retaining wall issue revisited.

You need a mason that other mason's hire when they have a problem. He
would probably recommend digging out the back of the wall, putting in
drainage tile and fabric properly (so gravel is separate from dirt and
neither goes thru weepholes). He might also be able to reinforce the
current wall after pushing it back in position. Call a few large
masonry companies and ask who they use to solve their problems. If
you live in Raleigh, NC I could tell you the right guy to look at it.


  #8   Report Post  
joe
 
Posts: n/a
Default Concrete retaining wall issue revisited.

I'm no expert but could you dig out a fair amount of the soil behind it and
replace with gravel?, this would relieve pressure You could install cables
below the soil that extend out 15 feet or so and attach to footings, this
would keep the wall from moving. If you can access the openings in the top
of the block you could fill them with concrete and rebar, this would lock
the wall in place. You could then level off the front with some type of
masonry compound.

"jeff" wrote in message
.net...
Whay happens if the wall falls? Will anyone be injured? Property

damage?
How would you like to defend yourself in court and have these e-mails

appear
as proof you knew there was a problem?

The wall has shifted 1 inch along the horizontal crack, and if I look at

it
ver carefully I notice it is leaning very slightly, but I'm not yet
convinced it's actually about to fall anytime soon. It sounds like you
think it's about to fall. Anyway, if the wall fell, it would fall onto

my
concrete driveway.

Jeff




  #9   Report Post  
joe
 
Posts: n/a
Default Concrete retaining wall issue revisited.

I'm no expert but could you dig out a fair amount of the soil behind it and
replace with gravel?, this would relieve pressure You could install cables
below the soil that extend out 15 feet or so and attach to footings, this
would keep the wall from moving. If you can access the openings in the top
of the block you could fill them with concrete and rebar, this would lock
the wall in place. You could then level off the front with some type of
masonry compound.

"jeff" wrote in message
.net...
Whay happens if the wall falls? Will anyone be injured? Property

damage?
How would you like to defend yourself in court and have these e-mails

appear
as proof you knew there was a problem?

The wall has shifted 1 inch along the horizontal crack, and if I look at

it
ver carefully I notice it is leaning very slightly, but I'm not yet
convinced it's actually about to fall anytime soon. It sounds like you
think it's about to fall. Anyway, if the wall fell, it would fall onto

my
concrete driveway.

Jeff




  #10   Report Post  
Pat Keith
 
Posts: n/a
Default Concrete retaining wall issue revisited.

Your crack indicates a poorly built retaining wall with problems. It could
last 50 years or it could fall this winter in a rainstorm. Can you
guarantee no one will be standing in your driveway? I probably wouldn't
want to water that part of my yard.




  #11   Report Post  
Pat Keith
 
Posts: n/a
Default Concrete retaining wall issue revisited.

Your crack indicates a poorly built retaining wall with problems. It could
last 50 years or it could fall this winter in a rainstorm. Can you
guarantee no one will be standing in your driveway? I probably wouldn't
want to water that part of my yard.


  #12   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default Concrete retaining wall issue revisited.

jeff wrote:
snip
My thoughts are not to replace the wall yet, since it may last a few years
or more before falling. If there are potentially a few or more years of
life left in the wall I'd rather not rush into putting up a new one. Do you
think, based on what I just described, that it sounds I'm making the right
decision in waiting to replace the wall, or does it sound to you like my
wall is in dire need of replacement?


Yep. Just be mentally prepared for the possibility that the wall could
come down sooner than you think.

BTW, I had another mason look at the wall and he offerred to do the
following for $495: 1) repair the outer surface of the wall with concrete so
that the surface is even (since some of the concrete surface has chipped off
below the horizontal crack, and since there are other small cracks in the
surface) and 2) paint the repaired surface with a drylock masonry paint.


All a waste of money really.

Also, the mason pointed out that, toward the middle of the wall, the ground
is sloped toward the wall. His recommendation is that I install a drain
pipe along side the wall and then put gravel on top, and then put some soil
on top of that, so that the ground alongside the wall would be level and so
that water will drain through the pipe. Granted, I realize this isn't ideal
because the drain pipe won't be at the very bottom of the wall, but it may
still help direct water away from the wall. He offered to do this for an
additional $195.


This would be nice, but you *really* want it on the other side of the
wall.

At this time, I'm leaning toward hiring this mason to do both jobs. Both
jobs will cost a total of $690. Granted, I realize the resurfacing portion
of the work won't do anything toward preventing any further shifting of the
wall but could at least protect the outer surface itself from exposure to
elements, and it would improve the appearance. The drain pipe portion of
the work might help prevent shifting if it helps direct the water away from
the wall.


It's you're house, but you're paying about 20% of a full repair for what
is essentially a bandaid.

Do you think having any of this repair work done sounds reasonable, or would
I be better off simply not having any work done until it's actually time for
a new wall?


I wouldn't do it, but then someo have noted that I'm more tolerant of
things not exactly looking pristine. That's really what you'd be paying
for: a cosmetic to cover the problem up untill you want to get to it.

For me, such things are counter productive: if something is failing, I'd
like to at least be able to see it on a daily bassis so that I can judge
if it's accellerating or not.


John
--
Remove the dead poet to e-mail, tho CC'd posts are unwelcome.
Ask me about joining the NRA.
  #13   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default Concrete retaining wall issue revisited.

jeff wrote:
snip
My thoughts are not to replace the wall yet, since it may last a few years
or more before falling. If there are potentially a few or more years of
life left in the wall I'd rather not rush into putting up a new one. Do you
think, based on what I just described, that it sounds I'm making the right
decision in waiting to replace the wall, or does it sound to you like my
wall is in dire need of replacement?


Yep. Just be mentally prepared for the possibility that the wall could
come down sooner than you think.

BTW, I had another mason look at the wall and he offerred to do the
following for $495: 1) repair the outer surface of the wall with concrete so
that the surface is even (since some of the concrete surface has chipped off
below the horizontal crack, and since there are other small cracks in the
surface) and 2) paint the repaired surface with a drylock masonry paint.


All a waste of money really.

Also, the mason pointed out that, toward the middle of the wall, the ground
is sloped toward the wall. His recommendation is that I install a drain
pipe along side the wall and then put gravel on top, and then put some soil
on top of that, so that the ground alongside the wall would be level and so
that water will drain through the pipe. Granted, I realize this isn't ideal
because the drain pipe won't be at the very bottom of the wall, but it may
still help direct water away from the wall. He offered to do this for an
additional $195.


This would be nice, but you *really* want it on the other side of the
wall.

At this time, I'm leaning toward hiring this mason to do both jobs. Both
jobs will cost a total of $690. Granted, I realize the resurfacing portion
of the work won't do anything toward preventing any further shifting of the
wall but could at least protect the outer surface itself from exposure to
elements, and it would improve the appearance. The drain pipe portion of
the work might help prevent shifting if it helps direct the water away from
the wall.


It's you're house, but you're paying about 20% of a full repair for what
is essentially a bandaid.

Do you think having any of this repair work done sounds reasonable, or would
I be better off simply not having any work done until it's actually time for
a new wall?


I wouldn't do it, but then someo have noted that I'm more tolerant of
things not exactly looking pristine. That's really what you'd be paying
for: a cosmetic to cover the problem up untill you want to get to it.

For me, such things are counter productive: if something is failing, I'd
like to at least be able to see it on a daily bassis so that I can judge
if it's accellerating or not.


John
--
Remove the dead poet to e-mail, tho CC'd posts are unwelcome.
Ask me about joining the NRA.
  #14   Report Post  
Gene Bruce
 
Posts: n/a
Default Concrete retaining wall issue revisited.

On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 22:29:39 GMT, "jeff" scribbled
the following wisdom:

I'm still trying to make a decision regarding my concrete retaining wall.
The wall is around 40 inches high and around 35 feet long. The wall is
actually made of cinder blocks and the wall is around 10 inches thick. The
wall has a horizontal crack around 6 inches from the bottom of the wall.
The crack extends throughout most of the wall's horizontal length. The wall
above the crack has shifted outward along the length of the horizontal
crack. After measuring this with a tape measure, I've determined that, at
the location where it has shifted the most, it has shifted no more than an
inch. The wall is leaning outward slightly as indicated via a level, but it
it does not appear to be leaning too much in my opinion. My opinion is that
the lean is hardly noticeable unless you're looking at it carefully.

Replacing the wall and replacing it with a more modern interlocking block
wall (Alan Blocks) will cost around $4300 for ripping down the old wall and
putting up the new wall.

My thoughts are not to replace the wall yet, since it may last a few years
or more before falling. If there are potentially a few or more years of
life left in the wall I'd rather not rush into putting up a new one. Do you
think, based on what I just described, that it sounds I'm making the right
decision in waiting to replace the wall, or does it sound to you like my
wall is in dire need of replacement?

BTW, I had another mason look at the wall and he offerred to do the
following for $495: 1) repair the outer surface of the wall with concrete so
that the surface is even (since some of the concrete surface has chipped off
below the horizontal crack, and since there are other small cracks in the
surface) and 2) paint the repaired surface with a drylock masonry paint.

Also, the mason pointed out that, toward the middle of the wall, the ground
is sloped toward the wall. His recommendation is that I install a drain
pipe along side the wall and then put gravel on top, and then put some soil
on top of that, so that the ground alongside the wall would be level and so
that water will drain through the pipe. Granted, I realize this isn't ideal
because the drain pipe won't be at the very bottom of the wall, but it may
still help direct water away from the wall. He offered to do this for an
additional $195.

At this time, I'm leaning toward hiring this mason to do both jobs. Both
jobs will cost a total of $690. Granted, I realize the resurfacing portion
of the work won't do anything toward preventing any further shifting of the
wall but could at least protect the outer surface itself from exposure to
elements, and it would improve the appearance. The drain pipe portion of
the work might help prevent shifting if it helps direct the water away from
the wall.

Do you think having any of this repair work done sounds reasonable, or would
I be better off simply not having any work done until it's actually time for
a new wall?

Thanks.

Jeff



First of all, I'n NOT an expert. That being said, I have questions: Is the crack
in the wall along a joint? Is the wall grouted (the block voids filled with
concrete)? can you access the block voids?

Ungrouted, this block wall is guaranteed to fail - it has very little lateral
strength.

If you can access the block voids to grout them and can grout the wall such as
the concrete will span the crack, this might save it without any additional
work. You would have a slightly crooked, but SOLID, wall.

The concrete will give the wall weight and lateral strength enough to hold 40"
of dirt back. The 10" wide blocks are IMHO wide enough to do the job.

Again, I'm not an expert.

The work suggested to you will do nothing to solve your problem - a waste of
money better applied to correcting the structure of the wall. Concrete is cheap
and this is an easy job if the openings at the top of the wall are exposed.

If the blocks are solid or nearly so, you chose the wrong building material.




I built a brick retaining wall at my old house that is still in like-new
condition the last I saw of it and it is now 15 years old. Two brick veneers
separated by a 3" air gap with tie bricks laid sideways across the air gap every
fourth brick. The whole thing backfilled with concrete. It should be here long
after I'm dust. A cap course of brick laid on their sides across the top covers
the concrete.


  #15   Report Post  
Gene Bruce
 
Posts: n/a
Default Concrete retaining wall issue revisited.

On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 22:29:39 GMT, "jeff" scribbled
the following wisdom:

I'm still trying to make a decision regarding my concrete retaining wall.
The wall is around 40 inches high and around 35 feet long. The wall is
actually made of cinder blocks and the wall is around 10 inches thick. The
wall has a horizontal crack around 6 inches from the bottom of the wall.
The crack extends throughout most of the wall's horizontal length. The wall
above the crack has shifted outward along the length of the horizontal
crack. After measuring this with a tape measure, I've determined that, at
the location where it has shifted the most, it has shifted no more than an
inch. The wall is leaning outward slightly as indicated via a level, but it
it does not appear to be leaning too much in my opinion. My opinion is that
the lean is hardly noticeable unless you're looking at it carefully.

Replacing the wall and replacing it with a more modern interlocking block
wall (Alan Blocks) will cost around $4300 for ripping down the old wall and
putting up the new wall.

My thoughts are not to replace the wall yet, since it may last a few years
or more before falling. If there are potentially a few or more years of
life left in the wall I'd rather not rush into putting up a new one. Do you
think, based on what I just described, that it sounds I'm making the right
decision in waiting to replace the wall, or does it sound to you like my
wall is in dire need of replacement?

BTW, I had another mason look at the wall and he offerred to do the
following for $495: 1) repair the outer surface of the wall with concrete so
that the surface is even (since some of the concrete surface has chipped off
below the horizontal crack, and since there are other small cracks in the
surface) and 2) paint the repaired surface with a drylock masonry paint.

Also, the mason pointed out that, toward the middle of the wall, the ground
is sloped toward the wall. His recommendation is that I install a drain
pipe along side the wall and then put gravel on top, and then put some soil
on top of that, so that the ground alongside the wall would be level and so
that water will drain through the pipe. Granted, I realize this isn't ideal
because the drain pipe won't be at the very bottom of the wall, but it may
still help direct water away from the wall. He offered to do this for an
additional $195.

At this time, I'm leaning toward hiring this mason to do both jobs. Both
jobs will cost a total of $690. Granted, I realize the resurfacing portion
of the work won't do anything toward preventing any further shifting of the
wall but could at least protect the outer surface itself from exposure to
elements, and it would improve the appearance. The drain pipe portion of
the work might help prevent shifting if it helps direct the water away from
the wall.

Do you think having any of this repair work done sounds reasonable, or would
I be better off simply not having any work done until it's actually time for
a new wall?

Thanks.

Jeff



First of all, I'n NOT an expert. That being said, I have questions: Is the crack
in the wall along a joint? Is the wall grouted (the block voids filled with
concrete)? can you access the block voids?

Ungrouted, this block wall is guaranteed to fail - it has very little lateral
strength.

If you can access the block voids to grout them and can grout the wall such as
the concrete will span the crack, this might save it without any additional
work. You would have a slightly crooked, but SOLID, wall.

The concrete will give the wall weight and lateral strength enough to hold 40"
of dirt back. The 10" wide blocks are IMHO wide enough to do the job.

Again, I'm not an expert.

The work suggested to you will do nothing to solve your problem - a waste of
money better applied to correcting the structure of the wall. Concrete is cheap
and this is an easy job if the openings at the top of the wall are exposed.

If the blocks are solid or nearly so, you chose the wrong building material.




I built a brick retaining wall at my old house that is still in like-new
condition the last I saw of it and it is now 15 years old. Two brick veneers
separated by a 3" air gap with tie bricks laid sideways across the air gap every
fourth brick. The whole thing backfilled with concrete. It should be here long
after I'm dust. A cap course of brick laid on their sides across the top covers
the concrete.


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