I just moved into a range-style house we just purchased. It is our
first one and is a starter home located in the midwest.

Half of the basement is finished (very nicely I might add) with
drywall and carpet. The carpet is directly on the floor (with a pad
of some kind)-- no sub-floor.

The finished part is musty. It is not overly powerful, but it is
definitely noticeable. There are really no signs of water/seepage
anywhere in the basement. The unfinished portion doesn't seem to
smell and seems dry and clean.

When we viewed the house, we just assumed that a dehumidifier would
solve the problem (as it did in my college rental house...literally
worked wonders by just running a couple hrs/day). The realtor
(buyer's agent) didn't seem to think it was a big deal either and also
thought a dehumidifier would work.

Well, the dehumidifier been running non-stop for 3-4 days now and has
helped, but it is still musty. We are also running the A/C even
though the outside is currently 65 degrees (with 85% humidity)

Also in the closing, the seller (stupidly) revealed that when they
moved in 8 years ago, he had to refinish the basement because mold was
growing on the drywall. He claims it is because there was no previous
vapor barrier and that he put in such a barrier so we should have no
such problems (must have been on his mind???). The seller seemed like
an idiot...especially for revealing this in the closing. But now we
know some history...

The home inspector didn't mention anything in the basement. However
he did mention that the outside grading is not good at all, there are
no window wells, and their are no downspouts for the gutter. Of
course we plan on fixing these things as soon as possible and maybe
this will solve the _causes_ of our must problem.

However I'm now very fearful of not being able to solve it. I'm
thinking that maybe mold (!!!) is growing between the vapor barrier
and the foundation wall. This would require tearing out the drywall I
think. Or maybe that moisture comes up from underneath the basement
and can't be solved without a sub-floor (not much headroom for one)

The market for homes in our area was terrible for this price range so
we had to act quickly on this house. However we will definitely be
selling in 4-5 years and I fear that as the market cools off, this
must/mold situation cold make things very difficult for us or cold
lead to costly repairs or even worse...

Any advice is greatly appreciated. I'm pretty worried about being
royally screwed. Granted this is my first house and I'm jittery about
it as is...

You're not going to eliminate a musty smell with a few day's worth of
running a dehumidifier. Not only does it take a bit of time to work down
the humidity level, but whatever is creating the musty smell has to dry out
(or die) as well.

Other suggestions would be to have your carpets cleaned and to open the
doors/windows when you get a breezy, dry day.

Give it a month before you get overly worried.

KB

"Michael" wrote in message
om...
I just moved into a range-style house we just purchased. It is our
first one and is a starter home located in the midwest.

Half of the basement is finished (very nicely I might add) with
drywall and carpet. The carpet is directly on the floor (with a pad
of some kind)-- no sub-floor.

The finished part is musty. It is not overly powerful, but it is
definitely noticeable. There are really no signs of water/seepage
anywhere in the basement. The unfinished portion doesn't seem to
smell and seems dry and clean.

When we viewed the house, we just assumed that a dehumidifier would
solve the problem (as it did in my college rental house...literally
worked wonders by just running a couple hrs/day). The realtor
(buyer's agent) didn't seem to think it was a big deal either and also
thought a dehumidifier would work.

Well, the dehumidifier been running non-stop for 3-4 days now and has
helped, but it is still musty. We are also running the A/C even
though the outside is currently 65 degrees (with 85% humidity)

Also in the closing, the seller (stupidly) revealed that when they
moved in 8 years ago, he had to refinish the basement because mold was
growing on the drywall. He claims it is because there was no previous
vapor barrier and that he put in such a barrier so we should have no
such problems (must have been on his mind???). The seller seemed like
an idiot...especially for revealing this in the closing. But now we
know some history...

The home inspector didn't mention anything in the basement. However
he did mention that the outside grading is not good at all, there are
no window wells, and their are no downspouts for the gutter. Of
course we plan on fixing these things as soon as possible and maybe
this will solve the _causes_ of our must problem.

However I'm now very fearful of not being able to solve it. I'm
thinking that maybe mold (!!!) is growing between the vapor barrier
and the foundation wall. This would require tearing out the drywall I
think. Or maybe that moisture comes up from underneath the basement
and can't be solved without a sub-floor (not much headroom for one)

The market for homes in our area was terrible for this price range so
we had to act quickly on this house. However we will definitely be
selling in 4-5 years and I fear that as the market cools off, this
must/mold situation cold make things very difficult for us or cold
lead to costly repairs or even worse...

Any advice is greatly appreciated. I'm pretty worried about being
royally screwed. Granted this is my first house and I'm jittery about
it as is...

First things first. Continue to dry out the space and get fresh air if
possible. Also start with the exterior grade (and you don't need window
wells unless the ground is higher than the bottom of the windows). Write
back in a few weeks. Yes, the seller is not an idiot.

"Michael" wrote in message
om...
I just moved into a range-style house we just purchased. It is our
first one and is a starter home located in the midwest.

Half of the basement is finished (very nicely I might add) with
drywall and carpet. The carpet is directly on the floor (with a pad
of some kind)-- no sub-floor.

The finished part is musty. It is not overly powerful, but it is
definitely noticeable. There are really no signs of water/seepage
anywhere in the basement. The unfinished portion doesn't seem to
smell and seems dry and clean.

When we viewed the house, we just assumed that a dehumidifier would
solve the problem (as it did in my college rental house...literally
worked wonders by just running a couple hrs/day). The realtor
(buyer's agent) didn't seem to think it was a big deal either and also
thought a dehumidifier would work.

Well, the dehumidifier been running non-stop for 3-4 days now and has
helped, but it is still musty. We are also running the A/C even
though the outside is currently 65 degrees (with 85% humidity)

Also in the closing, the seller (stupidly) revealed that when they
moved in 8 years ago, he had to refinish the basement because mold was
growing on the drywall. He claims it is because there was no previous
vapor barrier and that he put in such a barrier so we should have no
such problems (must have been on his mind???). The seller seemed like
an idiot...especially for revealing this in the closing. But now we
know some history...

The home inspector didn't mention anything in the basement. However
he did mention that the outside grading is not good at all, there are
no window wells, and their are no downspouts for the gutter. Of
course we plan on fixing these things as soon as possible and maybe
this will solve the _causes_ of our must problem.

However I'm now very fearful of not being able to solve it. I'm
thinking that maybe mold (!!!) is growing between the vapor barrier
and the foundation wall. This would require tearing out the drywall I
think. Or maybe that moisture comes up from underneath the basement
and can't be solved without a sub-floor (not much headroom for one)

The market for homes in our area was terrible for this price range so
we had to act quickly on this house. However we will definitely be
selling in 4-5 years and I fear that as the market cools off, this
must/mold situation cold make things very difficult for us or cold
lead to costly repairs or even worse...

Any advice is greatly appreciated. I'm pretty worried about being
royally screwed. Granted this is my first house and I'm jittery about
it as is...

"Michael" wrote in message
om...
I just moved into a range-style house we just purchased. It is our
first one and is a starter home located in the midwest.

Half of the basement is finished (very nicely I might add) with
drywall and carpet. The carpet is directly on the floor (with a pad
of some kind)-- no sub-floor.

The finished part is musty. It is not overly powerful, but it is
definitely noticeable. There are really no signs of water/seepage
anywhere in the basement. The unfinished portion doesn't seem to
smell and seems dry and clean.

When we viewed the house, we just assumed that a dehumidifier would
solve the problem (as it did in my college rental house...literally
worked wonders by just running a couple hrs/day). The realtor
(buyer's agent) didn't seem to think it was a big deal either and also
thought a dehumidifier would work.

Well, the dehumidifier been running non-stop for 3-4 days now and has
helped, but it is still musty. We are also running the A/C even
though the outside is currently 65 degrees (with 85% humidity)

Also in the closing, the seller (stupidly) revealed that when they
moved in 8 years ago, he had to refinish the basement because mold was
growing on the drywall. He claims it is because there was no previous
vapor barrier and that he put in such a barrier so we should have no
such problems (must have been on his mind???). The seller seemed like
an idiot...especially for revealing this in the closing. But now we
know some history...

The home inspector didn't mention anything in the basement. However
he did mention that the outside grading is not good at all, there are
no window wells, and their are no downspouts for the gutter. Of
course we plan on fixing these things as soon as possible and maybe
this will solve the _causes_ of our must problem.

However I'm now very fearful of not being able to solve it. I'm
thinking that maybe mold (!!!) is growing between the vapor barrier
and the foundation wall. This would require tearing out the drywall I
think. Or maybe that moisture comes up from underneath the basement
and can't be solved without a sub-floor (not much headroom for one)

The market for homes in our area was terrible for this price range so
we had to act quickly on this house. However we will definitely be
selling in 4-5 years and I fear that as the market cools off, this
must/mold situation cold make things very difficult for us or cold
lead to costly repairs or even worse...

Any advice is greatly appreciated. I'm pretty worried about being
royally screwed. Granted this is my first house and I'm jittery about
it as is...

I have a bungalow and know that if I'm not careful the basement will start
to smell mildewy. I think it's a fairly common problem. I run the furnace
fan in the "on" position quite regularly to keep the air circulating. This
seems to help considerably.

Peter H

Two suggestions:

Immediately, to protect your family's health, hire an expert to
determine if there is any mold that needs attention and to define the
corrective actions necessary to prevent reoccurrence. The Seller has
warned you. To put it in your terms, you have "stupidly" bought a home
without inspecting a disclosed condition, and that may result in some
unexpected expenses in curing it. The "idiot" seller would seem to be
off the hook for those since they disclosed their attempts and their
doubts about the effectiveness of those attempts to cure the problems
present when they bought the house. If the seller is as dumb as you say,
how can you trust his repair work?

Second, as the-plumber said in his response, be aware that the Seller
was correct to disclose More importantly for you, you are now in a
position that when you sell, you need to reveal known or suspected
problems. The fact that you think it is stupid to do so will not protect
you from future liability if you do not. Any Broker involved is also
risking licensure and liability for damages if they do not disclose
known adverse conditions. Some states (Maryland is an example) go so far
as to require that the Broker disclose conditions they SHOULD have
known. The law assumes that Brokers should know more than the homeowner
or the buyer from observed conditions. I heard an experienced Broker
say, the rule in their firm is Disclose! Disclose! Disclose! They are
not going to take the risk for a Seller who wants to hide adverse
conditions.

The bottom line, you may as well cure the problems now and enjoy your
home, because you may not find someone else willing to take it in the
future with known problems as you did, and if turns out that there is
anything serious going on like mold behind your vapor barrier or
drywall, you would have to correct it then to sell it. l


the_plumber wrote:

Michael wrote:

I just moved into a range-style house we just purchased. It is our
first one and is a starter home located in the midwest.



Also in the closing, the seller (stupidly) revealed that when they
moved in 8 years ago, he had to refinish the basement because mold was
growing on the drywall. He claims it is because there was no previous
vapor barrier and that he put in such a barrier so we should have no
such problems (must have been on his mind???). The seller seemed like
an idiot...especially for revealing this in the closing. But now we
know some history...


besides the fact the seller seems honest, disclosure of existing
conditions in a real estate sale is required by law in many if not all
states. maybe the seller thought there -may- still be a problem. btw,
it appears you may be the "stupid" one for not looking into the issue
further before buying.

Sorry,the-plumber, not sure what offended you about my posting method. I
noticed in this group that most don't use threads where the original and
responses are retained, they respond to the OP without reference to
other posts. Much as you did in responding to my post. As posts expire
with various newsfeeds rather quickly, it is sometimes hard to know what
the original question was. My ISP only keeps them for 4 days. I started
to respond to the OP, but chose to build on your response because you
had made a good point, and I hoped to add to it. I assume the OP would
find it because if he is interested he will read all related responses.

Is that what you are talking about? Or something else?

I see that you are a frequent contributor to the group so I will
appreciate your tips on how to improve my posts to this group. There is
certainly no consistency among groups in how the participants like to
see the posts. In one I visit, there is a running argument as to the
correctness of posting on the top or the bottom of previous replies. So
whatever the usenet rules are that I am breaking, please advise so I can
adjust. Thanks.

Stoney


the_plumber wrote:

Stoney wrote:

Two suggestions:


One suggestion:

Learn how to post properly in a usenet group.

Hey, Stoney....
I don't kow what was the other fellow's concern, but I thought your
advice was thoughtful, and right on target. I'm glad you're reading and
posting.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.org
..
..

"Stoney" wrote in message
...
Well, obviously I am struggling here. I just replied to your message
with the wrong profile active on this computer. The message you see that
says it is from SkyBlue is not, its from me. My apologies to SkyBlue.
One of these days I am going to figure out how to run a computer.

the_plumber wrote:

Stoney wrote:

Two suggestions:


One suggestion:

Learn how to post properly in a usenet group.

Michael wrote:

First of all, it was never disclosed. The seller casually mentioned
it DURING THE CLOSING! It was not on the official disclosure form.

Is it required where you live to disclose musty basements?

If it were, I would not have brushed off the scent of must in the
basement (which I figured is common when a dehumidifier is not used in
a basement).

It is. The basement in our house smells musty if we don't run a
dehumidifer in the summer and we have no water problems at all.

Also, I called my realtor and she says that it is not required to
disclose this if it was cured.

Well, there you go.

And the dehumidifier is starting to help now. Its been running
non-stop for 5 days and the must smell is starting to go away. I
think I may need to replace the carpet though as it is holding some of
the scent.

Just wash it thoroughly with one of those "steam" cleaners once you get
the humidity down. And here's something you should do: get a
hygrometer. Find out what the humidity level really is.

I am going to the library today to find out if disclosure of mold,
whether or not cured, is required in my state. If it is, I may seek
legal action due to the seller not disclosing this.

All you have right now is a musty smell. Even if mold disclosure is
required exactly what are you going to sue them for and what recourse
are you expecting?

My two suggestions may have been an over reaction to your report of
concern. Other responders are suggesting a more conservative approach. But
here is what I read into it. The seller had serious mold problems 8 years
ago that caused him to tear out the drywall, install a vapor barrier, and
renew the finished part of the basement. The basement now has a "musty"
smell in that area, but not in the unfinished part. At the closing, the
seller revealed this past mold problem. Question: Was the seller reacting to
advice from his broker or attorney to reveal this pre-existing condition
just in time to meet some disclosure requirement? After all, until the
closing is over, the buyer can stop the process and follow up on that new
information, but in practice, with loans in hand and everything moving
forward, might not. Or, was it idle talk like, well, once upon a time our
roof leaked so we had a new one installed and repaired the water damage. In
the first case I would be concerned (the musty smell is still evident) and
in the second I would not unless I saw evidence of water damage on-going.
Your buyer's agent told you that the seller had no obligation to disclose a
corrected condition. I bet she was a little nervous at the closing when he
revealed the previous problem and left a doubt in your mind about it being
corrected when you naturally tied that statement together with the fact of
the musty smell.

I have a walk out basement. I run a dehumidifier continuously in the summer
along with the AC because without it there is a sense of more dampness in
the air in the basement. We live in a very humid city. I know I am removing
a huge amount of humidity that the AC would otherwise have to handle. I
also have carpet installed directly on the concrete floor. However, there is
absolutely no hint of a musty smell, and if there were, I would be looking
for the source. No doubt a non walk out basement has a different atmosphere
than a walk-out, so if yours is that type, you might expect a little
different "smell" than you do on the upper floors.

The vapor barrier was not defined. When the owner attacked the moisture
problem, if he did it effectively on the exterior of the foundation, there
would seem to be no reason to fear moisture damage to the new wall. However,
if he covered the interior of the wall with a vapor barrier, say plastic
sheeting or something with an aluminum foil backing against the wall, there
is still the possibility that moisture is coming through the wall and
creating mold on the back surface of the vapor barrier. That could be the
source of the musty smell even though the wall itself shows no evident
damage. You reported that the area around the foundation is not well
protected from water seeping in. No gutter, etc.

Here is my new suggestion. Go outside the house and dig down along side the
foundation in the area of the finished part. Determine if the foundation is
adequately sealed to prevent water intrusion. If it is not, you should
consider investing in that. Or, depending on your terrain, at least assure
that the soil is well sloped away from the foundation on all sides, and
install gutters to direct the water away from the house. That will give the
soil nearest the house the chance to dry out. The good news is that in the
part of your basement that is not finished you see no evidence of water
seepage.

The combination of that, and running the dehumidifier all the time may be
all that is necessary to eliminate the musty smell. If it remains after
those steps, I would not hesitate to take a look behind that wall. Maybe cut
out a section behind a bookcase down near the floor so the repairs to your
test section would be localized if no evidence of trouble was found.

BUT, at the end of the day, if I were you, and I found mold behind the wall,
I would take it out a piece at a time until I assured myself there was no
other damage. Then, I would try my best to stop the moisture at its source
before restoring.

I know the excitement of having a first house, and that happens with us each
time we get another house. Seems each one has something that suited the
previous owner but we want to change. Good luck to you in getting yours just
the way you want it.

Stoney







Michael wrote:

I just moved into a range-style house we just purchased. It is our
first one and is a starter home located in the midwest.

Half of the basement is finished (very nicely I might add) with
drywall and carpet. The carpet is directly on the floor (with a pad
of some kind)-- no sub-floor.

The finished part is musty. It is not overly powerful, but it is
definitely noticeable. There are really no signs of water/seepage
anywhere in the basement. The unfinished portion doesn't seem to
smell and seems dry and clean.

When we viewed the house, we just assumed that a dehumidifier would
solve the problem (as it did in my college rental house...literally
worked wonders by just running a couple hrs/day). The realtor
(buyer's agent) didn't seem to think it was a big deal either and also
thought a dehumidifier would work.

Well, the dehumidifier been running non-stop for 3-4 days now and has
helped, but it is still musty. We are also running the A/C even
though the outside is currently 65 degrees (with 85% humidity)

Also in the closing, the seller (stupidly) revealed that when they
moved in 8 years ago, he had to refinish the basement because mold was
growing on the drywall. He claims it is because there was no previous
vapor barrier and that he put in such a barrier so we should have no
such problems (must have been on his mind???). The seller seemed like
an idiot...especially for revealing this in the closing. But now we
know some history...

The home inspector didn't mention anything in the basement. However
he did mention that the outside grading is not good at all, there are
no window wells, and their are no downspouts for the gutter. Of
course we plan on fixing these things as soon as possible and maybe
this will solve the _causes_ of our must problem.

However I'm now very fearful of not being able to solve it. I'm
thinking that maybe mold (!!!) is growing between the vapor barrier
and the foundation wall. This would require tearing out the drywall I
think. Or maybe that moisture comes up from underneath the basement
and can't be solved without a sub-floor (not much headroom for one)

The market for homes in our area was terrible for this price range so
we had to act quickly on this house. However we will definitely be
selling in 4-5 years and I fear that as the market cools off, this
must/mold situation cold make things very difficult for us or cold
lead to costly repairs or even worse...

Any advice is greatly appreciated. I'm pretty worried about being
royally screwed. Granted this is my first house and I'm jittery about
it as is...

Stoney wrote:

Two suggestions:

Immediately, to protect your family's health, hire an expert to
determine if there is any mold that needs attention and to define the
corrective actions necessary to prevent reoccurrence. The Seller has
warned you. To put it in your terms, you have "stupidly" bought a home
without inspecting a disclosed condition, and that may result in some
unexpected expenses in curing it. The "idiot" seller would seem to be
off the hook for those since they disclosed their attempts and their
doubts about the effectiveness of those attempts to cure the problems
present when they bought the house. If the seller is as dumb as you say,
how can you trust his repair work?

Second, as the-plumber said in his response, be aware that the Seller
was correct to disclose More importantly for you, you are now in a
position that when you sell, you need to reveal known or suspected
problems. The fact that you think it is stupid to do so will not protect
you from future liability if you do not. Any Broker involved is also
risking licensure and liability for damages if they do not disclose
known adverse conditions. Some states (Maryland is an example) go so far
as to require that the Broker disclose conditions they SHOULD have
known. The law assumes that Brokers should know more than the homeowner
or the buyer from observed conditions. I heard an experienced Broker
say, the rule in their firm is Disclose! Disclose! Disclose! They are
not going to take the risk for a Seller who wants to hide adverse
conditions.

The bottom line, you may as well cure the problems now and enjoy your
home, because you may not find someone else willing to take it in the
future with known problems as you did, and if turns out that there is
anything serious going on like mold behind your vapor barrier or
drywall, you would have to correct it then to sell it. l

Michael wrote:

First of all, it was never disclosed. The seller casually mentioned
it DURING THE CLOSING! It was not on the official disclosure form.
If it were, I would not have brushed off the scent of must in the
basement (which I figured is common when a dehumidifier is not used in
a basement).

Also, I called my realtor and she says that it is not required to
disclose this if it was cured.

And the dehumidifier is starting to help now. Its been running
non-stop for 5 days and the must smell is starting to go away. I
think I may need to replace the carpet though as it is holding some of
the scent.

I am going to the library today to find out if disclosure of mold,
whether or not cured, is required in my state. If it is, I may seek
legal action due to the seller not disclosing this.