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Default motorscooter starts but will not run

motorscooter starts but will not run

Finally borrowed a battery and working on 50 cc motor scooter.

It doesn't start right away -- kick starting would never work because
of that -- but after maybe the 4th try at 10 to 15 seconds each, it
starts, but then starts to slow down 10 seconds later. Sometimes
stalls right then. Turning the accelerator sometimes makes it speed
back up but then 10 seconds later it slows and stalls.

What's the problem?

A little bit of old gas but a gallon of new gas (which is about half a
tank.)

I'm not sure if ether helps or not. It certainly doesn't start right
away when I use it.
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Default motorscooter starts but will not run

On 11/26/2015 12:15 PM, Micky wrote:
A little bit of old gas but a gallon of new gas (which is about half a
tank.)


Old gas = gunked up carb
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Default motorscooter starts but will not run

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 12:50:34 -0700, Ed wrote:

On 11/26/2015 12:15 PM, Micky wrote:
A little bit of old gas but a gallon of new gas (which is about half a
tank.)


Old gas = gunked up carb


+1 and add a clogged fuel filter = replace it.
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On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 12:14:29 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 12:50:34 -0700, Ed wrote:

On 11/26/2015 12:15 PM, Micky wrote:
A little bit of old gas but a gallon of new gas (which is about half a
tank.)


Old gas = gunked up carb


+1 and add a clogged fuel filter = replace it.


I think I remember reading that there was a fuel filter, but I haven't
seen it.

For some reason I started another thread, where I point out that it
starts every 10 minutes, so I don't think it's a gunked up carb, but
maybe it takes 10 minutes for 30 seconds of fuel to seep through the
filter. It might run on ether too, but of course that either
dissipates or gets burned up in about 15 seconds also.

If I had someone to spray while it was running, I coudl see if it ran
longer. I know it's bad for the engine, but another minute total
won't hurt. I have to hold the brake so I can't spray too. If the
engine runs fast enough, the, get this, automatic transmission puts it
in drive so if I don't hold the brake, who knows where it would go?
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Default motorscooter starts but will not run

Micky,

Get a gas can, disconnect the gas line at the carb, and let a quart run
into the can. Does the gas flow out or is it running slow? Replace the fuel
filter if it runs slow. Reattach the gas line. Ok, you've eliminated the old
gas and the gas line/filter. Try and start it now. If the symptoms have not
changed I'd suspect crud in the carb.
What's the story behind this scooter?

Dave M.



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On 11/26/2015 03:20 PM, Micky wrote:
For some reason I started another thread, where I point out that it
starts every 10 minutes, so I don't think it's a gunked up carb, but
maybe it takes 10 minutes for 30 seconds of fuel to seep through the
filter. It might run on ether too, but of course that either
dissipates or gets burned up in about 15 seconds also.


Pinched line? If you take the gas cap off will it run longer? If there's
no way for the tank to breathe that could cut off flow.

What kind of petcock does it have? I've got a manual on one bike and if
I forget to turn it on I can get about 100 yards before the float bowl
runs dry. Vacuum actuated petcocks can act up too or the vacuum line
could be leaking. Is there a prime position?
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On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 17:53:06 -0500, "David L. Martel"
wrote:

Micky,

Get a gas can, disconnect the gas line at the carb,


I tried to disconnect it there, and I got the thin spring wire "hose
clamp" to move down the hose but couldnt' get the hose off.

If I took off the electric choke (two phillips screws) I might have
more access, not sure. All the pictures/diagrams are from the right
side, and this is on the left. (182 page manual, 22 megs)

and let a quart run
into the can.


No chance of getting even a little can in there. I was just going to
spill some.

Then I tried just below the fuel-pump-like-thing (well not really
except it's in the middle of the fuel line, where a pump would be. I
assume gravity is the major pump). They call it the control valve and
it has a vacuum line on it. The line goes to the base of the
carburetor, so I guess when there is vacuum there it either opens or
closes the gasoline path, maybe. This might be broken.

Got the gas hose clip moved and there was room to put in a screw
driver, but didn't have one.

Then I tried just above the control valve, moved the hose clip, and I
did have a tool to get in there, but it didnt' budge yet. Hoses get
stuck to the metal. Then I went on to something else.

Does the gas flow out or is it running slow? Replace the fuel
filter if it runs slow.


The sell a filter for this engine, $5, but I don't think I saw it in
there. Maybe it was just under the tank*** and if that's the case,
any of those three places to disconnect will be good enough for
testing.

*** Tomorrow I'll use a mirror. If it's there, it seems more likely
than the control valve. It's not mentioned in the manual. (using
Adobe reader, for some reason Find doesn't work, at least with these
manuals. It says it's searching 180 pages, but never finds words I
know are there. Well I just changed to a word showing on the page
I'm on, and it immediately said it wasn't found, it didn't even scan
all the pages. Also can't highlight or copy from the long, repair
manual **** but I can from the owners manual, though find doesn't work
right there either. If I search for one word, then another, it says
it can't find the second, unless I scroll in between. No Adobe
Reader updates available.

****Under file/properties it says there is "password security" and I
don't know the password, or even where to enter it.

Reattach the gas line. Ok, you've eliminated the old
gas and the gas line/filter. Try and start it now. If the symptoms have not
changed I'd suspect crud in the carb.
What's the story behind this scooter?


Found it in the woods near my house. Called the police but he looked
at it, saw all the damage I guess, and said he didn't want it. No
reports of a missing scooter, he said. A neighbor said it had been
there for 2 days. Plent of time to be reported. I told him to come
back if he got a report. Well, what she said is that she'd seen two
teenagers pushing it down the street in front of our houses. Why
they didn't just leave it where they were, I can't guess. Maybe it's
de rigeur to dump things in the woods. Although in 30 years there
have only been this and 2 bicycles and one shopping cart.

Dave M.

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On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 16:58:13 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

On 11/26/2015 03:20 PM, Micky wrote:
For some reason I started another thread, where I point out that it
starts every 10 minutes, so I don't think it's a gunked up carb, but
maybe it takes 10 minutes for 30 seconds of fuel to seep through the
filter. It might run on ether too, but of course that either
dissipates or gets burned up in about 15 seconds also.


Pinched line? If you take the gas cap off will it run longer?


I tried that. No.

If there's
no way for the tank to breathe that could cut off flow.

What kind of petcock does it have? I've got a manual on one bike and if


I'm not sure it has any. It has something called a control valve,
with gas in and out and a vacuum line from the base of the carburetor.
??

I forget to turn it on I can get about 100 yards before the float bowl
runs dry. Vacuum actuated petcocks can act up too or the vacuum line


Is that what the control valve is?

could be leaking.


I doubt it. The hoses all look in good condition. But there's a
diaphragm inside, I presume. Maybe something's wrong there.

I have to see if gas is coming through the filter -- there must be
filter because it's in the maintenance schedule, even if there's no
other mention in the repair or owners manual.

And I have to see if gas is coming through the control valve.
Tomorrow.

Is there a prime position?


No.

Thanks, and thanks all.
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On 11/26/2015 05:49 PM, Micky wrote:
I'm not sure it has any. It has something called a control valve,
with gas in and out and a vacuum line from the base of the carburetor.
??

I forget to turn it on I can get about 100 yards before the float bowl
runs dry. Vacuum actuated petcocks can act up too or the vacuum line

Is that what the control valve is?


Sounds like a vacuum operated petcock. A potential problem with gravity
feed fuel systems is a leaking float needle in the carburetor itself or
a stuck float. The float bowl fills and the gasoline starts to run out
of the carb. Worst case, it fills the cylinder and/or crankcase with
gasoline.

Traditionally there was just a manually operated valve on the bottom of
the tank, with on, off, and maybe reserve. Reserve just uncovered a
lower hole in the tube inside the tank. When you started sputtering in
the normal position you switched to reserve and might get a half gallon
or so additional fuel. Of course, if you reached down and found you were
already on reserve you started walking.

Like everything else, that was too complicated for people, so they went
to a vacuum operated valve, with a hose going to the carb for the
vacuum. Those generally still have a three way lever, on, off, and
prime. Prime manually opens the valve in case there's a problem with the
vacuum operator.


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On 11/26/2015 05:16 PM, Micky wrote:
The sell a filter for this engine, $5, but I don't think I saw it in
there. Maybe it was just under the tank*** and if that's the case,
any of those three places to disconnect will be good enough for
testing.


With my Sportster, the filter is in the tank itself. You remove the
fitting and the whole assembly comes out. Of course, being in the bottom
of the tank means you wait until the tank is less than half full, remove
it, and prop it up on its side. Or, if you're not too mechanically savvy
you remove the fitting in place and pour a couple of gallons of unleaded
down your leg. Adds character to your jeans like in the old ZZ Top song.



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On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 18:14:26 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

On 11/26/2015 05:16 PM, Micky wrote:
The sell a filter for this engine, $5, but I don't think I saw it in
there. Maybe it was just under the tank*** and if that's the case,
any of those three places to disconnect will be good enough for
testing.


With my Sportster, the filter is in the tank itself. You remove the
fitting and the whole assembly comes out. Of course, being in the bottom
of the tank means you wait until the tank is less than half full, remove
it, and prop it up on its side. Or, if you're not too mechanically savvy
you remove the fitting in place and pour a couple of gallons of unleaded
down your leg. Adds character to your jeans like in the old ZZ Top song.


Every time I take the nozzle out of my oil furnace, I pour the oil
that's in the tube connected to the nozzle onto the floor, or my shoe.
Except the last time. After 15 or 20 times, I finally remembered not
to do that.

So I have 14 times to go before i get the scooter gas tank right.

I'm glad you posted. If that's where it is, I wouuldn't have found
it.

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Default motorscooter starts but will not run

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 14:15:07 -0500, Micky
wrote:

motorscooter starts but will not run

Finally borrowed a battery and working on 50 cc motor scooter.

It doesn't start right away -- kick starting would never work because
of that -- but after maybe the 4th try at 10 to 15 seconds each, it
starts, but then starts to slow down 10 seconds later. Sometimes
stalls right then. Turning the accelerator sometimes makes it speed
back up but then 10 seconds later it slows and stalls.

What's the problem?

A little bit of old gas but a gallon of new gas (which is about half a
tank.)

I'm not sure if ether helps or not. It certainly doesn't start right
away when I use it.

What kind of scooter? 4 stroke or 2?
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On 11/26/2015 06:35 PM, Micky wrote:
I'm glad you posted. If that's where it is, I wouuldn't have found
it.


What kind of scooter is it? There should be some service information
online. Unless it's a Chung King Lightning Bolt or one of those other
cheap Chinese scoots. They are creative. One of them was called
something like Fubar 800. The displacement was around 50cc but the
crankcase held 800cc's of oil.


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On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 22:11:07 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

On 11/26/2015 06:35 PM, Micky wrote:
I'm glad you posted. If that's where it is, I wouuldn't have found
it.


What kind of scooter is it? There should be some service information
online. Unless it's a Chung King Lightning Bolt or one of those other
cheap Chinese scoots.


It is, but they too have documentation.

They are creative. One of them was called
something like Fubar 800. The displacement was around 50cc but the
crankcase held 800cc's of oil.


That's right. Low actually. 50cc's and 1 liter of oil. The piston
is only 1.33 inches and the stroke is 1.63 inches.

(and I see it has the factory-specified plug, and I measure the gap
and it was just right.)

It's a Tautau 50cc ATM50-A1. People won't find more documentation
on-line than I have, I was pretty diligent and I found plenty. I
have dl'd the owner's manual, 40 pages, and the generic service
manual, 180 pages (including the wiring schematic which almost?
exactly matches the scooter), and some other manuals for similar
scooters, GY6 and Panterra, but none of them show the gas filter. They
list it in the mainenance schedule, though, so I figured there was
one.

**Some other models are 49.5cc. I think there are some laws that
apply to bikes 50cc and above, so they made those less.

I also have the GY6 troubleshooting guide, which I had forgotten to
look at (I actually avoided looking at it until today, but today I'm
willing to look.) The closest it has is for Low Engine RPM, for which
it lists:
Air filter blocked
Fuel choke
Fuel tank cap air bleeder blocked -- so it really could have been
the cap after all, but it's not.
Exhaust pipe blocked
Auto choke bad
Carburetor diaphragm
Automatic oil cup bad.

Like most troubleshooting charts it doesn't list everything that could
be the problem.

Plus I joined a scooter web list, but I hate web lists, and it's only
worth asking there about things that are too obscure for the people
here to know. Like where can you get body parts for this model.

..... It has an overhead cam engine! But a maximum speed of 30, iirc.

And get this, they say it's a hemi!!
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Micky,

Have you looked at YouTube, lots of repair videos? Are you using high
octane fuel? This scooter does not have a fuel pump. It does have a fuel
regulator. What you've been describing may be a vacuum leak somewhere.

Dave M.



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On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 00:57:45 -0500, Micky
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 22:11:07 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

On 11/26/2015 06:35 PM, Micky wrote:
I'm glad you posted. If that's where it is, I wouuldn't have found
it.


What kind of scooter is it? There should be some service information
online. Unless it's a Chung King Lightning Bolt or one of those other
cheap Chinese scoots.


It is, but they too have documentation.

They are creative. One of them was called
something like Fubar 800. The displacement was around 50cc but the
crankcase held 800cc's of oil.


That's right. Low actually. 50cc's and 1 liter of oil. The piston
is only 1.33 inches and the stroke is 1.63 inches.

(and I see it has the factory-specified plug, and I measure the gap
and it was just right.)

It's a Tautau 50cc ATM50-A1. People won't find more documentation
on-line than I have, I was pretty diligent and I found plenty. I
have dl'd the owner's manual, 40 pages, and the generic service
manual, 180 pages (including the wiring schematic which almost?
exactly matches the scooter), and some other manuals for similar
scooters, GY6 and Panterra, but none of them show the gas filter. They
list it in the mainenance schedule, though, so I figured there was
one.

**Some other models are 49.5cc. I think there are some laws that
apply to bikes 50cc and above, so they made those less.

I also have the GY6 troubleshooting guide, which I had forgotten to
look at (I actually avoided looking at it until today, but today I'm
willing to look.) The closest it has is for Low Engine RPM, for which
it lists:
Air filter blocked
Fuel choke
Fuel tank cap air bleeder blocked -- so it really could have been
the cap after all, but it's not.
Exhaust pipe blocked
Auto choke bad
Carburetor diaphragm
Automatic oil cup bad.

Like most troubleshooting charts it doesn't list everything that could
be the problem.

Plus I joined a scooter web list, but I hate web lists, and it's only
worth asking there about things that are too obscure for the people
here to know. Like where can you get body parts for this model.

.... It has an overhead cam engine! But a maximum speed of 30, iirc.

And get this, they say it's a hemi!!

First thing to do is eliminate the vacuum operated fuel petcock.
Take the block out of the fuel line and join the lines with an inline
splice or a manyal huel shutoff. Plug the vac line. See if it runs
then.

From your description - a 4 stroke 50cc scooter, that is the most
likely problem - followed by a junked up carb.

Removong thr float bowl and checking for "greenies" and other crap
would tell you if that is the problem - but because it actually runs
for a short time, I'd put that well down the probability scale from
the fuel shutoff block.
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On 11/26/2015 10:57 PM, Micky wrote:
**Some other models are 49.5cc. I think there are some laws that
apply to bikes 50cc and above, so they made those less.


Yeah, generally license and registration laws.

.... It has an overhead cam engine! But a maximum speed of 30, iirc.

And get this, they say it's a hemi!!


Sure, why not. OHC implies it's a four stroke. A lot of the 50cc class
are two stroke since you can get about twice the power even if you are
trailing a blue cloud of smoke. The 49.9cc may also work for the two
stroke bans.



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On 11/27/2015 09:21 AM, Micky wrote:
Tautau ATM50-A1 50cc 4-stroke.

I'm hoping if I get it fixed the ATM will work and I can get my money
back.


Cute:

http://www.amazon.com/Street-Legal-S.../dp/B00J4TXA5U

But, dammit, there's no Black Friday deal and it isn't covered by Prime
2-day shipping...

People seem happy with it though several mention premium gas is recommended.
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On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 12:34:24 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

On 11/26/2015 10:57 PM, Micky wrote:
**Some other models are 49.5cc. I think there are some laws that
apply to bikes 50cc and above, so they made those less.


Yeah, generally license and registration laws.

.... It has an overhead cam engine! But a maximum speed of 30, iirc.

And get this, they say it's a hemi!!


Sure, why not.


Because they used to say that milling a hemi took so much time and
money that only expensive auto engines had them?

No?

OHC implies it's a four stroke.


Definitely 4-stroke.

A lot of the 50cc class
are two stroke since you can get about twice the power even if you are
trailing a blue cloud of smoke. The 49.9cc may also work for the two
stroke bans.




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On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 13:42:56 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 00:57:45 -0500, Micky
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 22:11:07 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

On 11/26/2015 06:35 PM, Micky wrote:
I'm glad you posted. If that's where it is, I wouuldn't have found
it.

What kind of scooter is it? There should be some service information
online. Unless it's a Chung King Lightning Bolt or one of those other
cheap Chinese scoots.


It is, but they too have documentation.

They are creative. One of them was called
something like Fubar 800. The displacement was around 50cc but the
crankcase held 800cc's of oil.


That's right. Low actually. 50cc's and 1 liter of oil. The piston
is only 1.33 inches and the stroke is 1.63 inches.

(and I see it has the factory-specified plug, and I measure the gap
and it was just right.)

It's a Tautau 50cc ATM50-A1. People won't find more documentation
on-line than I have, I was pretty diligent and I found plenty. I
have dl'd the owner's manual, 40 pages, and the generic service
manual, 180 pages (including the wiring schematic which almost?
exactly matches the scooter), and some other manuals for similar
scooters, GY6 and Panterra, but none of them show the gas filter. They
list it in the mainenance schedule, though, so I figured there was
one.

**Some other models are 49.5cc. I think there are some laws that
apply to bikes 50cc and above, so they made those less.

I also have the GY6 troubleshooting guide, which I had forgotten to
look at (I actually avoided looking at it until today, but today I'm
willing to look.) The closest it has is for Low Engine RPM, for which
it lists:
Air filter blocked
Fuel choke
Fuel tank cap air bleeder blocked -- so it really could have been
the cap after all, but it's not.
Exhaust pipe blocked
Auto choke bad
Carburetor diaphragm
Automatic oil cup bad.

Like most troubleshooting charts it doesn't list everything that could
be the problem.

Plus I joined a scooter web list, but I hate web lists, and it's only
worth asking there about things that are too obscure for the people
here to know. Like where can you get body parts for this model.

.... It has an overhead cam engine! But a maximum speed of 30, iirc.

And get this, they say it's a hemi!!


First thing to do is eliminate the vacuum operated fuel petcock.
Take the block out of the fuel line and join the lines with an inline
splice or a manyal huel shutoff. Plug the vac line. See if it runs
then.


I did most of this today. Test 1: I took the hose off the fuel
filter and gas poured out.

I put that back and took the hose off the exit of the vacuum petcock.
A little bit of gas dribbled out, though later it didnt' seem to
always dribble when closed.

But I disconnected the vacuum line and sucked on it and gas pretty
much poured out of the petcock. Probably not as much as Test 1. That
is, the stream narrowed a bit right after coming out of the petcock.
Hmmm. that didn't worry me at the time, but tomorrow i'll do what you
say, an inline splice.

Still, later I found some 1/4" OD hose and put a piece where the vac
line was and plugged it with a nail. I also put a 2" piece on the
port that had had the 2" piece that went nowhere. And I tied the
brake handle closed so I didn't have to keep holding it. And I put a
long hose on the petcock. Then, when it was started, I sucked on the
hose and that was enough to open it when the engine wasn't running,
but still it started to stall in just about the same length of time,
and loped slowly for another 10 seconds. Several times.

Later I was finally able to get the fuel hose off the carburetor and
when I sucked on the petcock, the fuel came out pretty fast. **


A video had used red and blue "clear" tubing, so I used clear tubing,
and while I was sucking, I could still see my saliva going down the
tube pretty fast. I didn't think I was letting any out, so that was
strange. But it never made it closer than a foot from the petcock.

I also was able to spray starter fluid while it was running and that
didnt' seem to make it run longer. Once it ran faster, for a short
while but even that didnt' usually happen. Is it possible to spray in
too much ether. It never was in a car but those engines were probably
200x as big.


From your description - a 4 stroke 50cc scooter, that is the most
likely problem - followed by a junked up carb.

Removong thr float bowl and checking for "greenies" and other crap
would tell you if that is the problem - but because it actually runs
for a short time, I'd put that well down the probability scale from
the fuel shutoff block.


When it's running, it sounds pretty good.

**OTOH, even after diluting the old gas with a new gallon, now that I
see the gas coming out of the disconnected hose is creamy brown, not
transparent brown like I remember. I also got some on my hands and it
doesn't smell like I remember gasoline smelling.

I should drain all this crappy gas, shouldn't I, but if it runs with
it for 15 seconds, that couldn't be the reason it stalls, could it?

I googled "old gas makes engine stall" and got several hits and I'm
reading them now (well, not right now.)

Here's one:
http://www.lcbamarketing.com/phase_s...hanol_blen.htm
Phase Separation in Ethanol Blended Gasoline Happens when there's
too much water in the gasoline.

It turns into layers. Maybe when I wait 10 minutes, the gasoline
rises to the top of the carburetor bowl.


Now that I have the extra hose, I can find a coupling and drain the
gas into something.

BTW, I no longer think thieves or vandals removed the seat. The owner
took the seat off to get to the engine to try to fix this thing. Maybe
he even did the other damage too when he fell. Why it was
rolled/pushed to the woods is still a mystery.
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Default motorscooter starts but will not run

On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 12:40:26 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

On 11/27/2015 09:21 AM, Micky wrote:
Tautau ATM50-A1 50cc 4-stroke.

I'm hoping if I get it fixed the ATM will work and I can get my money
back.


Cute:

http://www.amazon.com/Street-Legal-S.../dp/B00J4TXA5U

But, dammit, there's no Black Friday deal and it isn't covered by Prime
2-day shipping...

People seem happy with it though several mention premium gas is recommended.


IIRC, it's compression ratio is pretty high, yes 10.5:1. I guess that
means it needs premium.

Interesting reviews. Someone said he lived on a really large
cul-de-sac and the 18-wheeler had room to come in. How big do
cul-de-sacs get?

And this one: "The scooter is all put together and now it won't start.
It sounds like it wants to but just will not turn over." If it
doesn't turn over, it won't make any noise at all. A lot of people
misunderstand what turn over means.

And it reminded me, earlier tonight I looked into taking apart and
cleaning the carburetor, if you guys tell me I have to, from the milky
gasoline. But even the warm days have only 5 hours of warmth, and I
have no garage, and even my work bench is full of stuff. But I can
get a whole new carburetor, it seems, for $11. Well, wrong about
that. One page says how to measure the diameter. I think my intake
and output diam. are the same.

Darn, this one is $22. Even this one doesn't look exactly like mine.
This one is $11, but it's somehow for 2-stroke and doesn't look like
what's on there now.
I have to re-adjust my thinking.
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On 11/28/2015 05:49 AM, Micky wrote:
And this one: "The scooter is all put together and now it won't start.
It sounds like it wants to but just will not turn over." If it
doesn't turn over, it won't make any noise at all. A lot of people
misunderstand what turn over means.


Sort of like the subject of this thread "motorscooter starts but will not run".

WTF? If the motor starts, it runs. It may not run very long but it does run.
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On Sat, 28 Nov 2015 08:29:51 -0500, Bud Doobie
wrote:

On 11/28/2015 05:49 AM, Micky wrote:
And this one: "The scooter is all put together and now it won't start.
It sounds like it wants to but just will not turn over." If it
doesn't turn over, it won't make any noise at all. A lot of people
misunderstand what turn over means.


Sort of like the subject of this thread "motorscooter starts but will not run".

WTF? If the motor starts, it runs. It may not run very long but it does run.


You have a point, but I think his is worse. Hey, I put "will not run"
in the future tense. I was referring to tomorrow.

I know you guys a Ganja University, School of Syntax and Spelling take
this stuff seriously. I"ll try to do better.
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On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 18:08:45 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

On 11/26/2015 05:49 PM, Micky wrote:
I'm not sure it has any. It has something called a control valve,
with gas in and out and a vacuum line from the base of the carburetor.
??

I forget to turn it on I can get about 100 yards before the float bowl
runs dry. Vacuum actuated petcocks can act up too or the vacuum line

Is that what the control valve is?


Sounds like a vacuum operated petcock. A potential problem with gravity
feed fuel systems is a leaking float needle in the carburetor itself or
a stuck float. The float bowl fills and the gasoline starts to run out
of the carb. Worst case, it fills the cylinder and/or crankcase with
gasoline.

Traditionally there was just a manually operated valve on the bottom of
the tank, with on, off, and maybe reserve. Reserve just uncovered a
lower hole in the tube inside the tank. When you started sputtering in
the normal position you switched to reserve and might get a half gallon
or so additional fuel. Of course, if you reached down and found you were
already on reserve you started walking.

Like everything else, that was too complicated for people, so they went
to a vacuum operated valve, with a hose going to the carb for the
vacuum. Those generally still have a three way lever, on, off, and
prime. Prime manually opens the valve in case there's a problem with the
vacuum operator.


This one has no manual setting, but I read that when you first get the
scooter from the freight company, I think you're supposed to suck on
the hose to get the gas to the carburetor.

I considered putting on the old-style manual petcock, which now that
you mentioned it, I remember seeing on at least one bike long ago, but
there's no good place to mount it without lengthening the hoses a lot,
perhaps making the gas run uphill part of the way, and trying to mount
it. on the curved, flimsy, plastic body parts. (Also I don't know
yet that this part is the problem.)


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On 11/28/2015 12:09 AM, Micky wrote:
Is it possible to spray in
too much ether.


You certainly can have fun... I was starting a Yamaha one spring after a
long winter and feeding in ether liberally. It took a while to fire,
meanwhile filling the exhaust with ether fumes. When it all went off the
neighbor came running over to see what I'd shot.


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On 11/28/2015 03:49 AM, Micky wrote:
Interesting reviews. Someone said he lived on a really large
cul-de-sac and the 18-wheeler had room to come in. How big do
cul-de-sacs get?


Big enough... Long story but when I was driving an 18 wheeler I had to
deliver one sofa to a private party who lived in a rural area north of
Boise. Dragged it in, took the plastic off, watched the family flop on
it, all of which wasn't the normal procedure. Then I asked them how to
get out, since it was a narrow dirt road. They told me to go down about
a quarter mile and there was a cul de sac where I could turn the rig
around. They said the neighbor had a mailbox that might be in the way
but it was okay if I ran over it since they didn't like the prick anyway.

I left the mailbox standing, which is remarkable considering some of the
things I destroyed horsing around a 53' trailer.

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On Sat, 28 Nov 2015 13:45:55 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

On 11/28/2015 12:09 AM, Micky wrote:
Is it possible to spray in
too much ether.


You certainly can have fun... I was starting a Yamaha one spring after a
long winter and feeding in ether liberally. It took a while to fire,
meanwhile filling the exhaust with ether fumes. When it all went off the
neighbor came running over to see what I'd shot.


I meant too much so the engine which would otherwise run, woudln't.

But I like your story.
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On Sat, 28 Nov 2015 13:51:10 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

On 11/28/2015 03:49 AM, Micky wrote:
Interesting reviews. Someone said he lived on a really large
cul-de-sac and the 18-wheeler had room to come in. How big do
cul-de-sacs get?


Big enough... Long story but when I was driving an 18 wheeler I had to
deliver one sofa to a private party who lived in a rural area north of
Boise. Dragged it in, took the plastic off, watched the family flop on
it, all of which wasn't the normal procedure. Then I asked them how to
get out, since it was a narrow dirt road. They told me to go down about
a quarter mile and there was a cul de sac where I could turn the rig
around. They said the neighbor had a mailbox that might be in the way
but it was okay if I ran over it since they didn't like the prick anyway.

I left the mailbox standing, which is remarkable considering some of the
things I destroyed horsing around a 53' trailer.


LOL. What would you have done if there was no place like the culdsac?
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On 11/29/2015 01:22 AM, Micky wrote:
I meant too much so the engine which would otherwise run, woudln't.


I suppose if you really hosed it down but I've only used few second bursts.


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On 11/29/2015 01:24 AM, Micky wrote:
LOL. What would you have done if there was no place like the culdsac?


Shot the guy and buried him in the back yard? It would have been a long
way to back out.

Further off topic, I went up to a little alpine lake one spring on the
bike. There was a campground and a road all way but I hit drifted snow
about half a mile from the end. I parked the bike and walked the rest of
the way. When I came out, I noticed fresh tire tracks in the snow where
I'd parked the bike that made it about 25 yards into the drift. Trying
to break through drifts is sort of a spring time sport around here so I
didn't think much of it. Then I looked down the road and saw a pickup
towing a camp trailer slowly backing down. This is a steep, one lane,
not very good forest road with about a 500' drop off on one side. I had
just about enough room to squeeze by on the bike. The guy said 'This is
the stupidest thing I've ever done.' and I had to agree. He had about a
half mile to go before there was a place wide enough to turn around and
the sun was going down. There wasn't anything I could do to help so I
continued on.


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On 11/29/2015 1:29 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 11/29/2015 01:24 AM, Micky wrote:
LOL. What would you have done if there was no place like the culdsac?


Shot the guy and buried him in the back yard? It would have been a long
way to back out.

Further off topic, I went up to a little alpine lake one spring on the
bike. There was a campground and a road all way but I hit drifted snow
about half a mile from the end. I parked the bike and walked the rest of
the way. When I came out, I noticed fresh tire tracks in the snow where
I'd parked the bike that made it about 25 yards into the drift. Trying
to break through drifts is sort of a spring time sport around here so I
didn't think much of it. Then I looked down the road and saw a pickup
towing a camp trailer slowly backing down. This is a steep, one lane,
not very good forest road with about a 500' drop off on one side. I had
just about enough room to squeeze by on the bike. The guy said 'This is
the stupidest thing I've ever done.' and I had to agree. He had about a
half mile to go before there was a place wide enough to turn around and
the sun was going down. There wasn't anything I could do to help so I
continued on.


Years ago I visited some friends in Trona, CA. They decided one day to
take me "off-roading" up a mountain nearby. At first it was just rough
road going uphill winding in all sorts of directions, but then the road
got rather narrow and a look off to one side looked like a million mile
drop off to someone like me who'd never gone off-roading up the side of
a mountain like that. I kept covering my eyes and mumbling "WE'RE gona
DIE!!!" The friends who took me on the ride thought I was pretty funny,
but at the time I didn't think it was funny at all. They hadn't given
me any warning about where we were going. When we finally got to a
plateau where there was a big enough place for the caravan we were in to
pull up next to each other it turned out to be this large sand dune that
was half way up this mountain. When we got out to take a look the view
was like nothing I'd EVER seen before. I could see this dry lake bed
below us and it looked like we were on top of the world.

Of course, my friends had made the trip so many times they knew every
turn, dip, and danger spot, but for me although it scared the life out
of me I can honestly say it was the most memorable site I've ever seen
or been to. After we came down from that mountain, we drove a ways to
another popular site where there were these sand dunes, I think it was
Death Valley. We got out and walked a ways on the dunes, and took
photos. It was amazing how far distances actually were compared to what
our brains thought was just a few miles... it was actually more like 20
miles.

--
Maggie
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On Sun, 29 Nov 2015 12:17:23 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

On 11/29/2015 01:22 AM, Micky wrote:
I meant too much so the engine which would otherwise run, woudln't.


I suppose if you really hosed it down but I've only used few second bursts.

It does not take a lot of ether starting fluid to damage an engine,
large or small. Too much can take out head gaskets, crack pistons, or
cause any number of other serious problems on an engine. The stuff is
highly "explosive" Too much will also wash oil off cyl walls - but
that's WAY too much.
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On Sun, 29 Nov 2015 12:29:22 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

On 11/29/2015 01:24 AM, Micky wrote:
LOL. What would you have done if there was no place like the culdsac?


Shot the guy and buried him in the back yard? It would have been a long
way to back out.

Further off topic, I went up to a little alpine lake one spring on the
bike. There was a campground and a road all way but I hit drifted snow
about half a mile from the end. I parked the bike and walked the rest of
the way. When I came out, I noticed fresh tire tracks in the snow where
I'd parked the bike that made it about 25 yards into the drift. Trying
to break through drifts is sort of a spring time sport around here so I
didn't think much of it. Then I looked down the road and saw a pickup
towing a camp trailer slowly backing down. This is a steep, one lane,
not very good forest road with about a 500' drop off on one side. I had
just about enough room to squeeze by on the bike. The guy said 'This is
the stupidest thing I've ever done.' and I had to agree. He had about a
half mile to go before there was a place wide enough to turn around and
the sun was going down. There wasn't anything I could do to help so I
continued on.


Wow. On the one time I had a trailer and headed down a dead end
street , I stopped when I was still partly in the intersection and it
still took me 10 minutes to back up 8 feet so I could go the other
way. Backing a half mile with a trailer, my gosh.

Could he have disonnected the trailer, turned it and the car around
and reconnected? Assuming he could lift the tongue. I know
trailers can be very heavy.


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On 11/29/2015 12:58 PM, Muggles wrote:
I kept covering my eyes and mumbling "WE'RE gona
DIE!!!" The friends who took me on the ride thought I was pretty funny,
but at the time I didn't think it was funny at all.


Blue Mountain is a popular recreation area on the south side of town.
There's a road to the top where the U has a little observatory and the
FS has a fire tower. It really isn't that bad a road compared to a lot
others around here, but someone manages to kill themselves every couple
of years.

http://missoulian.com/news/local/kil...d03340582.html

http://tinyurl.com/ot3owf6

Yesterday I was hiking on one of my favorite loops and I decided to take
a little detour to look for a roadside attraction. Either I was on the
wrong slope or they finally extracted it but there has been a Subaru
Forester about 50' down from the road on a slope that required
scrambling to get up. The car was perfectly vertical, standing on its
nose propped up against the big ponderosa pine that stopped it from
going any further. There was still some junk in it including a baby
carrier. I don't recall reading about a fatality but it must have been
one hell of a ride when they missed the corner.

I've got to admit that on the bike there are places where I hug the
uphill side of the road, turn on my tunnel vision, and try not to think
what's on the other side of the narrow, rocky road. Bouncing over big
rocks on a dirt bike, you don't always go quite where you intended and I
prefer to be as far from the edge as possible.

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On 11/29/2015 03:18 PM, Micky wrote:
Could he have disonnected the trailer, turned it and the car around
and reconnected? Assuming he could lift the tongue. I know
trailers can be very heavy.


Not a prayer. The road was only about 8 feet wide, steep uphill slope on
the left, steeper downhill slope to the right. The logging roads are
nothing fancy, just enough of a cut to get a truck through. When they're
logging the truckers have CB's so one can wait at a pull off like a
train on a siding.

20-20 hindsight he should have dropped the trailer and seen if he could
make it through with the pickup. But, June down it the valley, birds
chirping, and all that good stuff, you don't really plan to be stopped
by snow drifts.


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On Sun, 29 Nov 2015 20:50:03 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

On 11/29/2015 03:18 PM, Micky wrote:
Could he have disonnected the trailer, turned it and the car around
and reconnected? Assuming he could lift the tongue. I know
trailers can be very heavy.


Not a prayer. The road was only about 8 feet wide, steep uphill slope on
the left, steeper downhill slope to the right. The logging roads are
nothing fancy, just enough of a cut to get a truck through. When they're
logging the truckers have CB's so one can wait at a pull off like a
train on a siding.

20-20 hindsight he should have dropped the trailer and seen if he could
make it through with the pickup. But, June down it the valley, birds
chirping, and all that good stuff, you don't really plan to be stopped
by snow drifts.


I can see that.

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On Sun, 29 Nov 2015 20:39:26 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

On 11/29/2015 12:58 PM, Muggles wrote:
I kept covering my eyes and mumbling "WE'RE gona
DIE!!!" The friends who took me on the ride thought I was pretty funny,
but at the time I didn't think it was funny at all.


Blue Mountain is a popular recreation area on the south side of town.
There's a road to the top where the U has a little observatory and the
FS has a fire tower. It really isn't that bad a road compared to a lot
others around here, but someone manages to kill themselves every couple
of years.

http://missoulian.com/news/local/kil...d03340582.html

http://tinyurl.com/ot3owf6

Yesterday I was hiking on one of my favorite loops and I decided to take
a little detour to look for a roadside attraction. Either I was on the
wrong slope or they finally extracted it but there has been a Subaru
Forester about 50' down from the road on a slope that required
scrambling to get up. The car was perfectly vertical, standing on its
nose propped up against the big ponderosa pine that stopped it from
going any further. There was still some junk in it including a baby
carrier. I don't recall reading about a fatality but it must have been
one hell of a ride when they missed the corner.

I've got to admit that on the bike there are places where I hug the
uphill side of the road, turn on my tunnel vision, and try not to think
what's on the other side of the narrow, rocky road. Bouncing over big
rocks on a dirt bike, you don't always go quite where you intended and I
prefer to be as far from the edge as possible.


About a month ago Inside Edition had some guy on bicycle miss a turn
in the mountains and go over a cliff, 30 or 50 feet down. He wasn't
hurt badly, somehow, but that's because Inside Edition avoids showing
clips with unhappy endings. There are probably others that don't end
so well.
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On 11/29/2015 9:39 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 11/29/2015 12:58 PM, Muggles wrote:
I kept covering my eyes and mumbling "WE'RE gona
DIE!!!" The friends who took me on the ride thought I was pretty funny,
but at the time I didn't think it was funny at all.


Blue Mountain is a popular recreation area on the south side of town.
There's a road to the top where the U has a little observatory and the
FS has a fire tower. It really isn't that bad a road compared to a lot
others around here, but someone manages to kill themselves every couple
of years.

http://missoulian.com/news/local/kil...d03340582.html


http://tinyurl.com/ot3owf6


Not sure why, but the story text is greyed out for me. I can't read it.

Yesterday I was hiking on one of my favorite loops and I decided to take
a little detour to look for a roadside attraction. Either I was on the
wrong slope or they finally extracted it but there has been a Subaru
Forester about 50' down from the road on a slope that required
scrambling to get up. The car was perfectly vertical, standing on its
nose propped up against the big ponderosa pine that stopped it from
going any further. There was still some junk in it including a baby
carrier. I don't recall reading about a fatality but it must have been
one hell of a ride when they missed the corner.

I've got to admit that on the bike there are places where I hug the
uphill side of the road, turn on my tunnel vision, and try not to think
what's on the other side of the narrow, rocky road. Bouncing over big
rocks on a dirt bike, you don't always go quite where you intended and I
prefer to be as far from the edge as possible.


Here are 2 pics of the trip up the mountain:
This one is at the bottom looking up at the destination. You can see
the plateau dune up a ways. The road veers off and hits some narrow
stretches on the edge of the mountain before we can actually reach the
plateau.
http://i67.tinypic.com/vfyw7p.jpg


This is a shot looking down from the dune. We can see the dry lake bed
and the chemical plant there that processes the underground water for
the minerals there.
http://i68.tinypic.com/kbbwvq.jpg



--
Maggie
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