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#1
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Fergy, no guilty
No indictment in Fergy, it's all over.
Move along to the next story. -- .. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .. |
#2
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Fergy, no guilty
On 11/24/2014 06:08 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
No indictment in Fergy, it's all over. Move along to the next story. It's Bush's fault! |
#3
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You know, I would hate to live in a place like that where you never know from one day to the next when there's gonna be a riot and when, as a store owner, you're going to have to sleep with a gun at your side in your store at night to protect your inventory from looters. Or when you're going to have to board up your store front with plywood as a measure against looters as happened all last weekend in Ferguson.
In Philadelphia today, a policeman shot a 12 year old brandishing a toy gun. (Some reports are that it was a BB gun, but everyone agrees that it was manufactured to look exactly like a real gun.) I hope the people of Philadelphia recognize that even if a 12 year old points a very real looking gun at someone, that's the kind of situation that can lead to tragedy. Why would someone even want to have a gun like that in their possession when they know the potential for it being mistaken for a real gun? It can't protect them in any real way, all it can do is get them shot. Last edited by nestork : November 25th 14 at 05:47 AM |
#4
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Fergy, no guilty
On 11/24/2014 11:12 PM, nestork wrote:
You know, I would hate to live in a place like that where you never know from one day to the next when there's gonna be a riot and when, as a store owner, you're going to have to sleep with a gun at your side in your store at night to protect your inventory from looters. Or when you're going to have to board up your store front with plywood as a measure against looters as happened all last weekend in Ferguson. Fortunately, not all of Canada is that way. -- .. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .. |
#5
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Fergy, no guilty
In article ,
Stormin Mormon wrote: No indictment in Fergy, it's all over. Move along to the next story. Holder and the AG's office hasn't weighed in yet. I would like someone to ask how civil rights can be impacted if the cop wasn't doing anything wrong. -- ³Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.² ‹ Aaron Levenstein |
#6
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Fergy, no guilty
On 11/25/2014 8:12 AM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article , Stormin Mormon wrote: No indictment in Fergy, it's all over. Move along to the next story. Holder and the AG's office hasn't weighed in yet. I would like someone to ask how civil rights can be impacted if the cop wasn't doing anything wrong. There were folks smashing glass, burning cop cars, torching warehouse, looting stores. Wonder if that resulted in any arrests? And why not? If you're black in Fergy, the law doesn't apply to you last night? What kind of message is that? - .. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .. |
#7
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Fergy, no guilty
On 11/25/2014 7:12 AM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article , Stormin Mormon wrote: No indictment in Fergy, it's all over. Move along to the next story. Holder and the AG's office hasn't weighed in yet. I would like someone to ask how civil rights can be impacted if the cop wasn't doing anything wrong. Just wait! You know who will pull an executive order out of his a** and take care of that little niggling detail. |
#8
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Fergy, no guilty
On 11/25/2014 9:23 AM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 11/25/2014 7:12 AM, Kurt Ullman wrote: In article , Stormin Mormon wrote: No indictment in Fergy, it's all over. Move along to the next story. Holder and the AG's office hasn't weighed in yet. I would like someone to ask how civil rights can be impacted if the cop wasn't doing anything wrong. Just wait! You know who will pull an executive order out of his a** and take care of that little niggling detail. He might do it with low budget, in a niggardly manner. - .. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .. |
#9
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Fergy, no guilty (Grand Jury Transcipt)
On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 21:08:13 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote: No indictment in Fergy, it's all over. Move along to the next story. 286 pages, Ofc. Wilson's testimony begins ~ page 207. http://www.scribd.com/doc/248128351/Darren-Wilson-Testimony "Darren Wilson's medical records, as presented to the grand jury." http://www.scribd.com/doc/248130943/Darren-Wilson-Medical-Records |
#10
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Fergy, no guilty
On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 21:08:13 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote: No indictment in Fergy, it's all over. No yet. The feds have nothing for civil rights violation, BUT the Brown family will sue Wilson in civil court for wrongful death. Make him a financially broke man. No job, a wanted man (bounties were put on him) - damaged for many years. Move along to the next story. -- "Dodgeball in Burkas" -- Greg Gutfeld |
#11
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Fergy, no guilty
Oren wrote: On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 21:08:13 -0500, Stormin Mormon wrote: No indictment in Fergy, it's all over. No yet. The feds have nothing for civil rights violation, BUT the Brown family will sue Wilson in civil court for wrongful death. Make him a financially broke man. Last I knew cops had civil immunity for their lawful actions on duty. The family is sure to try to sure someone - the city, the state, the store their thug robbed, etc. but I think they are SOL on the cop. |
#12
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Fergy, no guilty
On 11/25/2014 8:24 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 11/25/2014 8:12 AM, Kurt Ullman wrote: In article , Stormin Mormon wrote: No indictment in Fergy, it's all over. Move along to the next story. Holder and the AG's office hasn't weighed in yet. I would like someone to ask how civil rights can be impacted if the cop wasn't doing anything wrong. There were folks smashing glass, burning cop cars, torching warehouse, looting stores. Wonder if that resulted in any arrests? And why not? If you're black in Fergy, the law doesn't apply to you last night? What kind of message is that? - . Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org . They even invaded a McDonalds. "Do you want fries with that?" |
#13
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Fergy, no guilty
On Tue, 25 Nov 2014 14:08:41 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote: Oren wrote: On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 21:08:13 -0500, Stormin Mormon wrote: No indictment in Fergy, it's all over. No yet. The feds have nothing for civil rights violation, BUT the Brown family will sue Wilson in civil court for wrongful death. Make him a financially broke man. Last I knew cops had civil immunity for their lawful actions on duty. The family is sure to try to sure someone - the city, the state, the store their thug robbed, etc. but I think they are SOL on the cop. The cop is liable for denial of medical attention for a prisoner (SCOTUS); he does have immunity for his lawful actions ... The Brown family will still sue Officer Wilson. |
#14
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Fergy, no guilty
On 11/25/2014 4:05 PM, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 25 Nov 2014 14:08:41 -0600, "Pete C." Last I knew cops had civil immunity for their lawful actions on duty. The family is sure to try to sure someone - the city, the state, the store their thug robbed, etc. but I think they are SOL on the cop. The cop is liable for denial of medical attention for a prisoner (SCOTUS); he does have immunity for his lawful actions ... The Brown family will still sue Officer Wilson. On the radio today, Nov 25, 2014 I heard a quote from the cop "I felt like a five year old facing hulk Hogan. At no time was I in control." How do you deny medical care to Ernest T. Bass, who does "you'll never catch me"? -- .. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .. |
#15
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One thing I heard today that I have trouble with...
Officer Darren Wilson approached Brown and his friend on the street and called for back-up. Wilson drove his police car so as to stop traffic and called Brown over. Brown and Wilson then struggled for Wilson's service revolver, and at least one shot went off with the bullet grazing Michael Brown's finger and lodging in the car door. Brown then ran away down the same street he was walking down with his friend. Wilson than got out of his police car and chased after Brown on foot. Brown then stopped and turned around to face Wilson. Wilson also then stopped. (what words, if any, were exchange between Wilson and Brown I don't know and I didn't hear if there was any sort of verbal exchange. Wilson might have said "Stop, or I'll shoot" or something to that effect, but it's not part of what I heard this morning on TV) Wilson then fired a total of SIX SHOTS into Brown. I'm having a problem with that. Couldn't Wilson have shot Brown in the leg once to stop him? After the first shot, I have trouble believing that Brown would still be approaching Wilson aggressively. Why would it have been necessary to fire FIVE MORE shots into Brown. Also, don't police service revolvers typically only have 6 bullets? Where did the extra bullet come from? This is stuff that I heard this morning on the TV news. Were they incorrect about the number of shots? I have a problem with Wilson needing to empty his service revolver into Brown to stop his attack. You don't even see that on TV where a person take 6 bullets to the chest and keeps on attacking, unless of course they're a zombie, but let's no go there. Last edited by nestork : November 26th 14 at 01:10 AM |
#16
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Fergy, no guilty
On Tuesday, November 25, 2014 6:17:13 PM UTC-6, nestork wrote:
This is stuff that I heard this morning on the TV news. Were they incorrect about the number of shots? I have a problem with Wilson needing to empty his service revolver into Brown to stop his attack. You don't even see that on TV where a person take 6 bullets to the chest and keeps on attacking, unless of course they're a zombie, but let's no go there. 10 shots from that magazine (Sig Sauer P229) |
#17
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Fergy, no guilty
On 11/25/2014 6:01 PM, nestork wrote:
One thing I heard today that I have trouble with... Officer Darren Wilson approached Brown and his friend on the street and called for back-up. Wilson drove his police car so as to stop traffic and called Brown over. Brown and Wilson then struggled for Wilson's service revolver, and at least one shot went off with the bullet grazing Michael Brown's finger and lodging in the car door. Brown then ran away down the same street he was walking down with his friend. Wilson than got out of his police car and chased after Brown on foot. Brown then stopped and turned around to face Wilson. Wilson also then stopped. (what words, if any, were exchange between Wilson and Brown I don't know and I didn't hear if there was any sort of verbal exchange. Wilson might have said "Stop, or I'll shoot" or something to that effect, but it's not part of what I heard this morning on TV) Wilson then fired a total of SIX SHOTS into Brown. I'm having a problem with that. Couldn't Wilson have shot Brown in the leg once to stop him? After the first shot, I have trouble believing that Brown would still be approaching Wilson aggressively. Why would it have been necessary to fire FIVE MORE shots into Brown. Also, don't police service revolvers typically only have 6 bullets? Where did the extra bullet come from? The grassy knoll. |
#18
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Fergy, no guilty
"nestork" wrote in message ... One thing I heard today that I have trouble with... Officer Darren Wilson approached Brown and his friend on the street and called for back-up. Wilson drove his police car so as to stop traffic and called Brown over. Brown and Wilson then struggled for Wilson's service revolver, and at least one shot went off with the bullet grazing Michael Brown's finger and lodging in the car door. Brown then ran away down the same street he was walking down with his friend. Wilson than got out of his police car and chased after Brown on foot. Brown then stopped and turned around to face Wilson. Wilson also then stopped. (what words, if any, were exchange between Wilson and Brown I don't know and I didn't hear if there was any sort of verbal exchange. Wilson might have said "Stop, or I'll shoot" or something to that effect, but it's not part of what I heard this morning on TV) Wilson then fired a total of SIX SHOTS into Brown. I'm having a problem with that. Couldn't Wilson have shot Brown in the leg once to stop him? The officer fired at center of mass, as per training. And he missed several times. You think he would have better luck aiming for a smaller target such as his leg? After the first shot, I have trouble believing that Brown would still be approaching Wilson aggressively. It happens. People get all fired up. Especially stupid people. Why would it have been necessary to fire FIVE MORE shots into Brown. Keep firing until the threat is removed. |
#19
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Fergy, no guilty
"nestork" wrote in message ... One thing I heard today that I have trouble with... Wilson then fired a total of SIX SHOTS into Brown. I'm having a problem with that. Couldn't Wilson have shot Brown in the leg once to stop him? After the first shot, I have trouble believing that Brown would still be approaching Wilson aggressively. Why would it have been necessary to fire FIVE MORE shots into Brown. Also, don't police service revolvers typically only have 6 bullets? Where did the extra bullet come from? The bullets came out of his ass, just as your information must be comming out of yours. He did not have a revolver. Just try hitting a moving target in the leg that is on his way to kill you. Not only in the leg, but in the right place to break a bone. Just a hit to the leg will not usually do much to stop anyone that had the adriline flowing. It will surprise you how quickly someone can cover a short distance. Get one of the paint ball type guns and and see if you can hit him in the leg when he is charging you from 20 feet. By the way make sure it is understood that if he gets to you he can beat you all he wants. Also let him hit you in the face atleast once before it all starts so you willknow how it feels. He shot Brown atleast once in the chest and that did not seem to even slow him down the first time. If the people would just do like the officers ask, there would not be any shootings. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com |
#20
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Fergy, no guilty
On 11/25/2014 7:01 PM, nestork wrote:
Wilson then fired a total of SIX SHOTS into Brown. I'm having a problem with that. Couldn't Wilson have shot Brown in the leg once to stop him? Marshall Dillon, Bat Masterson and Maverick could have. Real people, not so much. Shooting a pistol under the circumstances that existed it is not so easy to have the control that is needed to take out a leg. After the first shot, I have trouble believing that Brown would still be approaching Wilson aggressively. Why would it have been necessary to fire FIVE MORE shots into Brown. Also, don't police service revolvers typically only have 6 bullets? Where did the extra bullet come from? You've been watching too much TV. The Lone Ranger has silver bullets in his six shooter. Police today have guns capable of 8 or 10 shots in a clip and may have a spare loaded clip.. This is stuff that I heard this morning on the TV news. Were they incorrect about the number of shots? I have a problem with Wilson needing to empty his service revolver into Brown to stop his attack. You don't even see that on TV where a person take 6 bullets to the chest and keeps on attacking, unless of course they're a zombie, but let's no go there. So, you have been watching TV. When the adrenaline is pumping and your life is in danger, you can pull the trigger a few times in just a couple of seconds. You don't stop until the bad guy stops. |
#21
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Fergy, no guilty
On 11/25/2014 7:01 PM, nestork wrote:
One thing I heard today that I have trouble with... (what words, if any, were exchange between Wilson and Brown I don't know and I didn't hear if there was any sort of verbal exchange. Wilson might have said "Stop, or I'll shoot" or something to that effect, but it's not part of what I heard this morning on TV) Wilson then fired a total of SIX SHOTS into Brown. CY: Might have been six. I'm having a problem with that. Couldn't Wilson have shot Brown in the leg once to stop him? CY: Only on television. In the real world, cops are taught to "shoot to stop" which means center chest. After the first shot, I have trouble believing that Brown would still be approaching Wilson aggressively. Why would it have been necessary to fire FIVE MORE shots into Brown. CY: Big guy, sometimes big guys can take a lot of shooting. Also, don't police service revolvers typically only have 6 bullets? Where did the extra bullet come from? CY: US cops now days typically carry 9 MM semi automatic pistols. That round has been known to fail to stop, at least a lot of times. IIRC part of the reason the US Military went from .38 revolvers to .45 pistols, the smaller round didn't stop enemy soldiers. This is stuff that I heard this morning on the TV news. Were they incorrect about the number of shots? I have a problem with Wilson needing to empty his service revolver into Brown to stop his attack. CY: Might been automatic. You don't even see that on TV where a person take 6 bullets to the chest and keeps on attacking, unless of course they're a zombie, but let's no go there. CY: I'd have to look for the stories on the web, but there have been many where the 9 MM fails to stop some one who is angry or on drugs. I can believe a big youth taking seven before he goes down. -- .. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .. |
#22
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Fergy, no guilty
On Tuesday, November 25, 2014 7:15:15 PM UTC-6, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
You've been watching too much TV. The Lone Ranger has silver bullets in his six shooter. Police today have guns capable of 8 or 10 shots in a clip and may have a spare loaded clip.. http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/...pse3541862.jpg |
#23
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Fergy, no guilty
On 11/25/2014 2:08 PM, Pete C. wrote:
Oren wrote: On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 21:08:13 -0500, Stormin Mormon wrote: No indictment in Fergy, it's all over. No yet. The feds have nothing for civil rights violation, BUT the Brown family will sue Wilson in civil court for wrongful death. Make him a financially broke man. Last I knew cops had civil immunity for their lawful actions on duty. The family is sure to try to sure someone - the city, the state, the store their thug robbed, etc. but I think they are SOL on the cop. It's not the judgment he has to fear, it's the law suit. ANYONE can sue ANYONE for ANYTHING. The action still must be defended and that costs money. Further, if punitive damages are sought, then the individual must/should have his OWN attorney - generally not paid for by the municipality - to defend HIS interests. If punitive damages are awarded (and never say never) it's HIS to pay. The city or county cannot indemnify him as it is against public policy. Punitive damages are awarded to PUNISH wrong doing. No punishment of the individual agent if the municipality pays them on his behalf, hence they are not allowed to. |
#24
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Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by nestork : November 26th 14 at 08:13 AM |
#25
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Fergy, no guilty
In article ,
nestork wrote: I'm having a problem with that. Couldn't Wilson have shot Brown in the leg once to stop him? You have watched WAY too much tv. First you ever try to hit a running knee cap from any distance. The leg in general would worse. Two, even if he shot him in the leg, that doesn't mean he will go down or even go down immediately. After the first shot, I have trouble believing that Brown would still be approaching Wilson aggressively. Why would it have been necessary to fire FIVE MORE shots into Brown. You keep shooting until the guy goes down. There is no forensic evidence that the shots hit him except from the front so he was still approaching the officer. Also, don't police service revolvers typically only have 6 bullets? Where did the extra bullet come from? Not only too much TV, but too many Westerns (grin). Don't know of any cop that carries a six-shooter as his service weapon. This is stuff that I heard this morning on the TV news. Were they incorrect about the number of shots? I have a problem with Wilson needing to empty his service revolver into Brown to stop his attack. You don't even see that on TV where a person take 6 bullets to the chest and keeps on attacking, unless of course they're a zombie, but let's no go there. See above about usig TV for a standard. -- ³Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.² ‹ Aaron Levenstein |
#26
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Fergy, no guilty
In article ,
Stormin Mormon wrote: O CY: Only on television. In the real world, cops are taught to "shoot to stop" which means center chest. Although with the baddies getting vests, too, the mantra is swiftly becoming two in the chest, one in the head, you are alive, he is dead. -- ³Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.² ‹ Aaron Levenstein |
#27
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Fergy, no guilty
On 11/26/2014 5:20 AM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article , Stormin Mormon wrote: O CY: Only on television. In the real world, cops are taught to "shoot to stop" which means center chest. Although with the baddies getting vests, too, the mantra is swiftly becoming two in the chest, one in the head, you are alive, he is dead. The news arrives in a flurry You are in front of a grand jury In defense you had to shoot Now the teens they mob and loot And that's the end of my sturry. -- .. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .. |
#28
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Fergy, no guilty
On Tuesday, November 25, 2014 8:12:24 AM UTC-5, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article , Stormin Mormon wrote: No indictment in Fergy, it's all over. Move along to the next story. Holder and the AG's office hasn't weighed in yet. I would like someone to ask how civil rights can be impacted if the cop wasn't doing anything wrong. -- Å‚Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.Ë› €¹ Aaron Levenstein Still waiting for Holder on Brown? Did Holder ever weigh in on Zimmerman/Martin? AFAIK, after he started the similar big investigation, I never heard him give a result. AFAIK, that one is still going on. How do they get anything done around ther? Good grief. |
#29
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Fergy, no guilty
On Tuesday, November 25, 2014 7:17:13 PM UTC-5, nestork wrote:
One thing I heard today that I have trouble with... Officer Darren Wilson approached Brown and his friend on the street and called for back-up. Wilson drove his police car so as to stop traffic and called Brown over. Brown and Wilson then struggled for Wilson's service revolver, Small point, but it was actually a SigSauer, semiautomatic, .40, IMO probably the best semi-automatic there is. and at least one shot went off with the bullet grazing Michael Brown's finger and lodging in the car door. Brown then ran away down the same street he was walking down with his friend. Wilson than got out of his police car and chased after Brown on foot. Brown then stopped and turned around to face Wilson. Wilson also then stopped. (what words, if any, were exchange between Wilson and Brown I don't know and I didn't hear if there was any sort of verbal exchange. Wilson might have said "Stop, or I'll shoot" or something to that effect, but it's not part of what I heard this morning on TV) Wilson then fired a total of SIX SHOTS into Brown. According to Wilson's testimony, he ordered Brown to stop, lay down, repeatedly. When Brown came over to the car, slammed the door shut on Wilson, and started to punch him, Wilson says he reached for his gun and told Brown to stop or he would shoot him. He says Brown said to him "You're too big of a pussy to shoot me". I'm having a problem with that. Couldn't Wilson have shot Brown in the leg once to stop him? You've been watching too many old western movies again. First, by the account of Wilson and some of the eye witnesses, Brown was charging towards the Wilson at that point, refusing to stop. Second, AFAIK, all law enforcement is trained to use a gun as only a last resort and then to use it to quickly totally incapacitate the target. That is, they don't fire warning shots, they don't try to shoot to wound, they shoot for the large chest area, when possible, where a round is most likely to achieve it's objective. It's not a stationary target. It's someone running, coming at you, that could overpower and kill you in another second or two. You don't have the luxury of trying to hit a moving leg, and if that's successful, waiting to see if that works, etc. Also, according to Wilson's account, he shot him several times, yet Brown continued to come at him. It was only the last shot, that hit him in the head that ended it. After the first shot, I have trouble believing that Brown would still be approaching Wilson aggressively. Why would that be? There are many police incidents where suspects are hit multiple times, in non-strategic areas, and they don't stop. For one thing, with andrenalin pumping, a shot that wounds may not even register much, if at all, with the perp. For another, Brown was under the influence of drugs. And if a shot was gonna stop him, then why was the final exchange happening at all? We know 100% from forensic evidence that Brown was already shot once in the initial engagment many seconds ago, while the officer was still in the car. Why would it have been necessary to fire FIVE MORE shots into Brown. Because he kept coming. We know forensically that Brown was standing, facing the officer when the shots were fired. If the first one or two had made him keel over, he wouldn't still be standing. Also, don't police service revolvers typically only have 6 bullets? Where did the extra bullet come from? That's the main reason most law enforcement today carry semi-automatics, like the Sig. It was a 40, holds probably 12 rounds with a standard magazine. So I guess it's not a small point after all. This is stuff that I heard this morning on the TV news. Were they incorrect about the number of shots? I have a problem with Wilson needing to empty his service revolver into Brown to stop his attack. You don't even see that on TV where a person take 6 bullets to the chest and keeps on attacking, unless of course they're a zombie, but let's no go there. Then how is it that the forensic evidence shows that Brown was hit while standing and facing the officer? He wasn't shot while lying down. ABC news, Stephanopolous, did an exclusive interview with Wilson, I'm sure you can find it online. And perps are shot six times and more in encounters with police frequently. Once some SOB is coming at you and you're convinced that your life is in danger, you do what you have to do. And that is to make sure you put him down, ASAP. |
#30
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Fergy, no guilty
On Tuesday, November 25, 2014 8:44:02 PM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 11/25/2014 7:01 PM, nestork wrote: One thing I heard today that I have trouble with... (what words, if any, were exchange between Wilson and Brown I don't know and I didn't hear if there was any sort of verbal exchange. Wilson might have said "Stop, or I'll shoot" or something to that effect, but it's not part of what I heard this morning on TV) Wilson then fired a total of SIX SHOTS into Brown. CY: Might have been six. I'm having a problem with that. Couldn't Wilson have shot Brown in the leg once to stop him? CY: Only on television. In the real world, cops are taught to "shoot to stop" which means center chest. After the first shot, I have trouble believing that Brown would still be approaching Wilson aggressively. Why would it have been necessary to fire FIVE MORE shots into Brown. CY: Big guy, sometimes big guys can take a lot of shooting. Also, don't police service revolvers typically only have 6 bullets? Where did the extra bullet come from? CY: US cops now days typically carry 9 MM semi automatic pistols. That round has been known to fail to stop, at least a lot of times. IIRC part of the reason the US Military went from .38 revolvers to .45 pistols, the smaller round didn't stop enemy soldiers. IDK what US military used before the .45, but a few decades ago, they went from the .45 to 9mm. Last I heard maybe a year ago, they were opening the whole thing up again, looking for something with more stopping power, among other criteria. This is stuff that I heard this morning on the TV news. Were they incorrect about the number of shots? I have a problem with Wilson needing to empty his service revolver into Brown to stop his attack. CY: Might been automatic. It was a .40 SigSauer semi-automatic. You don't even see that on TV where a person take 6 bullets to the chest and keeps on attacking, unless of course they're a zombie, but let's no go there. CY: I'd have to look for the stories on the web, but there have been many where the 9 MM fails to stop some one who is angry or on drugs. I can believe a big youth taking seven before he goes down. Absolutely. Some police have the same concerns that the military does that you outlined. Apparently Ferguson is among the police that have gone to .40 caliber. I also don't know what TV Nestor is watching. I sure see plenty of shows, movies, etc where the cops keep shooting, the bad guy takes hit after hit and keeps coming. Somehow the bad guy then winds up getting blown out a window of a 50 story building with the last shot, which proves fatal. I guess you need a nearby window or similar for the shot to work. Mind you that stuff on TV is pure crap, way overdone, but there is plenty of it there. And as you say there a plenty of real world cases all the time where police have to fire 6 or more shots to end an encounter. |
#31
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Fergy, no guilty
On Tuesday, November 25, 2014 11:24:36 PM UTC-5, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 11/25/2014 2:08 PM, Pete C. wrote: Oren wrote: On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 21:08:13 -0500, Stormin Mormon wrote: No indictment in Fergy, it's all over. No yet. The feds have nothing for civil rights violation, BUT the Brown family will sue Wilson in civil court for wrongful death. Make him a financially broke man. Last I knew cops had civil immunity for their lawful actions on duty. The family is sure to try to sure someone - the city, the state, the store their thug robbed, etc. but I think they are SOL on the cop. It's not the judgment he has to fear, it's the law suit. ANYONE can sue ANYONE for ANYTHING. The action still must be defended and that costs money. Further, if punitive damages are sought, then the individual must/should have his OWN attorney - generally not paid for by the municipality - to defend HIS interests. If punitive damages are awarded (and never say never) it's HIS to pay. The city or county cannot indemnify him as it is against public policy. Punitive damages are awarded to PUNISH wrong doing. No punishment of the individual agent if the municipality pays them on his behalf, hence they are not allowed to. I'm sure there will be plenty of excellent lawyers willing to defend Brown pro bono, should it become necessary. Also, officers typically belong to police organizations, one of the benefits of which is that they pay for defense in such cases, etc. To be sure, I would not want to have to go through the process of being sued, but it's one of the hazards of the job. It would be interesting to know if the police there are unionized and what their contract says about such cases, who pays what, etc. |
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Fergy, no guilty
On 11/26/2014 8:04 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Tuesday, November 25, 2014 8:44:02 PM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote: CY: US cops now days typically carry 9 MM semi automatic pistols. That round has been known to fail to stop, at least a lot of times. IIRC part of the reason the US Military went from .38 revolvers to .45 pistols, the smaller round didn't stop enemy soldiers. IDK what US military used before the .45, but a few decades ago, they went from the .45 to 9mm. Last I heard maybe a year ago, they were opening the whole thing up again, looking for something with more stopping power, among other criteria. CY: I remember from some where, they used to carry .38 special, which didn't work on some of the pacific island folks we were trying to kill. This is stuff that I heard this morning on the TV news. Were they incorrect about the number of shots? I have a problem with Wilson needing to empty his service revolver into Brown to stop his attack. CY: Might been automatic. It was a .40 SigSauer semi-automatic. CY: Thanks. CY: I'd have to look for the stories on the web, but there have been many where the 9 MM fails to stop some one who is angry or on drugs. I can believe a big youth taking seven before he goes down. Absolutely. Some police have the same concerns that the military does that you outlined. Apparently Ferguson is among the police that have gone to .40 caliber. I also don't know what TV Nestor is watching. I sure see plenty of shows, movies, etc where the cops keep shooting, the bad guy takes hit after hit and keeps coming. Somehow the bad guy then winds up getting blown out a window of a 50 story building with the last shot, which proves fatal. I guess you need a nearby window or similar for the shot to work. Mind you that stuff on TV is pure crap, way overdone, but there is plenty of it there. And as you say there a plenty of real world cases all the time where police have to fire 6 or more shots to end an encounter. cY: I've read of a few. Didn't find any on the web, sadly. I did a search for 9 MM failure to stop list, and didn't get a list. Surprised, seems like some one would have compiled such a list. -- .. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .. |
#33
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Fergy, no guilty
On Wednesday, November 26, 2014 2:17:10 AM UTC-5, nestork wrote:
Unquestionably Confused;3313271 Wrote: On 11/25/2014 2:08 PM, Pete C. wrote:- Oren wrote:- On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 21:08:13 -0500, Stormin Mormon wrote: - No indictment in Fergy, it's all over. - No yet. The feds have nothing for civil rights violation, BUT the Brown family will sue Wilson in civil court for wrongful death. Make him a financially broke man.- Last I knew cops had civil immunity for their lawful actions on duty. The family is sure to try to sure someone - the city, the state, the store their thug robbed, etc. but I think they are SOL on the cop.- It's not the judgment he has to fear, it's the law suit. ANYONE can sue ANYONE for ANYTHING. The action still must be defended and that costs money. Further, if punitive damages are sought, then the individual must/should have his OWN attorney - generally not paid for by the municipality - to defend HIS interests. If punitive damages are awarded (and never say never) it's HIS to pay. The city or county cannot indemnify him as it is against public policy. Punitive damages are awarded to PUNISH wrong doing. No punishment of the individual agent if the municipality pays them on his behalf, hence they are not allowed to. I expect his police union will have a lawyer on retainer that does work like this whenever a cop gets sued for something he did as part of his job. The city or municipality won't pay that lawyer, the union will out of the union dues the cops pay every month. Or, at least, that would make some kinda horse sense to me. It's not the judgment he has to fear, it's the law suit. ANYONE can sue ANYONE for ANYTHING. The action still must be defended and that costs money. Yes, but if the judge considers it a trivial or unjustifiable suit meant only to harass, he can order the person doing the sueing to reimburse the person being sued for his legal expenses. While theoretically possible, that rarely happens here in the USA. And it certainly isn't going to happen in this case. A case against the PD and Wilson clearly would not rise to the level of being totally frivolous. And on top of that, would you be the judge that declared it frivolous? You want another 12 businesses burned? Good grief. Here in Canada, a prominant radio host sued the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation for 55 million dollars cuz he got fired when the company found out he was beating up his girlfriends. Gean Gomeshi, the radio host, has since dropped his law suit, and the court has ordered him to pay the CBC $18,000 $CDN for the company's legal expenses in preparing to defend themselves in court. So, it's not a trivial matter to sue someone just out of spite. That spite can cost you a lot of money. -- nestork Of course here the family would clearly not be suing the PD or officer out of spite. |
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Fergy, no guilty
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message ... On 11/26/2014 8:04 AM, trader_4 wrote: On Tuesday, November 25, 2014 8:44:02 PM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote: CY: US cops now days typically carry 9 MM semi automatic pistols. That round has been known to fail to stop, at least a lot of times. IIRC part of the reason the US Military went from .38 revolvers to .45 pistols, the smaller round didn't stop enemy soldiers. IDK what US military used before the .45, but a few decades ago, they went from the .45 to 9mm. Last I heard maybe a year ago, they were opening the whole thing up again, looking for something with more stopping power, among other criteria. CY: I remember from some where, they used to carry .38 special, which didn't work on some of the pacific island folks we were trying to kill. Philippine Muslims. |
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Fergy, no guilty
On 11/26/2014 8:24 AM, Pico Rico wrote:
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message CY: I remember from some where, they used to carry .38 special, which didn't work on some of the pacific island folks we were trying to kill. Philippine Muslims. Those Muslims been trouble for centuries. -- .. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .. |
#36
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Fergy, no guilty
On 11/26/2014 7:24 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Tuesday, November 25, 2014 8:12:24 AM UTC-5, Kurt Ullman wrote: In article , Stormin Mormon wrote: No indictment in Fergy, it's all over. Move along to the next story. Holder and the AG's office hasn't weighed in yet. I would like someone to ask how civil rights can be impacted if the cop wasn't doing anything wrong. -- Å‚Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.Ë› €¹ Aaron Levenstein Still waiting for Holder on Brown? Did Holder ever weigh in on Zimmerman/Martin? AFAIK, after he started the similar big investigation, I never heard him give a result. AFAIK, that one is still going on. How do they get anything done around ther? Good grief. They don't. |
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Fergy, no guilty
On 11/26/2014 9:59 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
Unless the brain, spine or major bone is hit people just don't fall over in their tracks. A man I know was in the Korean war and told how he shot someone several times with the 30 cal carbine and the man kept on coming and was finally stopped when someone hit him with the 30/06 rifle. He was probably dead,but just did not know it from being hit 5 or 6 times before. I read year ago, the carbine was about the same power as a .38 special. The ought six was a lot more power. - .. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .. |
#38
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Fergy, no guilty
"trader_4" wrote in message ... IDK what US military used before the .45, but a few decades ago, they went from the .45 to 9mm. Last I heard maybe a year ago, they were opening the whole thing up again, looking for something with more stopping power, among other criteria. They used 38 cal revolvers. It was decded the 38 did not have enough stopping power so something beter was wanted. The people were often on some kind of drugs and even though after a killing shot they would have enough life in them to keep on comming for a short time. If you have ever seen a deer (close to a big man in weight ) shot with an even more powerful rifle and still run for 100 yards it would be easy to see how Brown could keep on comming after being shot severl times. Unless the brain, spine or major bone is hit people just don't fall over in their tracks. A man I know was in the Korean war and told how he shot someone several times with the 30 cal carbine and the man kept on comming and was finally stopped when someone hit him with the 30/06 rifle. He was probably dead,but just did not know it from being hit 5 or 6 times before. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com |
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Quote:
Quote:
According to the prosecutor in the Grand Jury trial, that first bullet only grazed Brown's finger before getting lodged inside the car door. There was soot from the gunpowder found on Brown's hand in the autopsies. Brown probably felt it, but realized that it was nothing more than a scratch. |
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Fergy, no guilty
On Tue, 25 Nov 2014 20:15:25 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Couldn't Wilson have shot Brown in the leg once to stop him? Marshall Dillon, Bat Masterson and Maverick could have. Real people, not so much. Shooting a pistol under the circumstances that existed it is not so easy to have the control that is needed to take out a leg. Elmer Fudd or Yosemite Sam ? Back years ago, or escape contingency plan required a warning shot before shooting a fleeing felon. I had two escapees on the roof of the jail one night, I directed the perimeter officer that if they jumped off the roof over the fence "shoot them both'. I meant right then, not fifty yards away... Miami FBI, DEA, DUSM, local Metro once served a warrant on a house for drug storage. One agent was killed in the gun fight. One of the traffickers was shot 6 times in the chest (.357?) AND lived. I couldn't believe it until I saw the guy and welcomed him into the jail from the hospital. He looked like the walking dead, but had a pulse. |
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