Hi All,

I am breaking my no eMail after 8:00 pm rule
as the typo's flow like water. So I can't be
held responsible!

Epilogue:

After running up to Reno three times, I finally got
the right relay part. The proper part number is 2213105
and has been replaced by 8201769. The part number in
the parts list (8201769) was a complete joke. Reading
the part number off the actual part cured the problem.

Appliance Parts was very gracious about exchanging the
wrong part, since I had not open up any packaging. When
the held the old part in their hand, they just shook
their heads. Apparently, I am not the first person with
the problem.

The symptom was poor cooling and a transient smell
of burning rubber.

The condenser fan was found to leaking oil and
was replaced. Air flow increased substantially.
Also the lower coils were coated in dust. They
were cleaned.

The compressor and the relay made no noise. My
wife described the typical noise as a snap, followed
by a short whooshing noise. None were present.
Stormin' told me to look for noise.

Measuring the resistance of the condenser came out
normal. Measuring the voltage to the relay was
also normal at 115 VAC. A rattling noise was
observed when I shook the relay in my hand.
The new relay had no rattle.

Also, the capacitor fit perfectly on the the
8201769 replacement relay.

When I FINALLY replaced the relay with the correct part
and plugged the thing in: no noise. S***! Then
about 5 seconds later a loud snap and a rattle
from the compressor. The rattle diminished in about 8
seconds to quiet. S*** again. So I unplugged it and let
it sit. This time a loud snap, but no rattle.

Oh No! Then I realized that once the condenser gets to
pressure, it becomes silent. It also takes a long time
to release that pressure. It also says my condenser is
in good shape.

My compressor is a Matsu****a (Panasonic's parent company).
Yippee!

So I felt the outgoing and incoming freon lines. The
outgoing was hot and the incoming was cold. 2x yippee!
I take back the bad words. Then I felt the air
coming out the front of the unit. It was
warm. 3x yippee!

The refrigerator cooled faster than I remember it ever
cooling (I can remember back to 2001). In about 1/2 hour
it was down to temperature. My wife has been playing
with the controls to cherry it out. This morning
it was -2F in the freezer section and 32F in the
refrigerator section.

Lessons learned:

That part number on the part trumps the parts diagram

Parts diagrams are only an aid. They are not exact.

Always take the part with you

Measure the voltage to the relay

Measure the resistance across the pins on the compressor

Look at total cost of ownership, not just the original price
of an appliance. (New refrigerators are now 5 to 7
year units. Better to repair an old, good unit.)

Changing compressors (soldering/welding, purging, recharging)
is over my head. But nothing else is!

Listen to your wife. She will know every noise that goes
bump in the night. Women are more observant than guys
anyway.

Always go fishing (hey, it clears your head)

I really appreciate all the help and encouragement everyone
gave me. Special thanks to Stormin', who kicked it when
finally provided with the proper information.

Man that refrigerator is working nice now! And now that
I have fixed it, I have a certain pride in it too.

-T

That's the reward you get at the end of a long and difficult journey. You just have to decide if the reward is worth the difficulty. To many it is, and to many it's not.

On 09/11/2014 10:26 PM, nestork wrote:
Todd;3282719 Wrote:

Man that refrigerator is working nice now! And now that
I have fixed it, I have a certain pride in it too.


That's the reward you get at the end of a long and difficult journey.
You just have to decide if the reward is worth the difficulty. To many
it is, and to many it's not.

And I only lost about $20.00 in food spoilage too

On 09/11/2014 11:22 PM, Todd wrote:
On 09/11/2014 10:26 PM, nestork wrote:
Todd;3282719 Wrote:

Man that refrigerator is working nice now! And now that
I have fixed it, I have a certain pride in it too.


That's the reward you get at the end of a long and difficult journey.
You just have to decide if the reward is worth the difficulty. To many
it is, and to many it's not.

And I only lost about $20.00 in food spoilage too


And friends I never knew I had.

I am writing the second $25.00 check to my favorite
repairman who graciously talked me through things
over the phone, including once at 9:30 at night.

CY: Text inserted inline after my initials.
On 9/12/2014 12:11 AM, Todd wrote:
Hi All,

I am breaking my no eMail after 8:00 pm rule
as the typo's flow like water. So I can't be
held responsible!

Epilogue:

After running up to Reno three times, I finally got
the right relay part. The proper part number is 2213105
and has been replaced by 8201769. The part number in
the parts list (8201769) was a complete joke. Reading
the part number off the actual part cured the problem.

CY: Great wisdom in getting the actual number off the
part, when possible.

Appliance Parts was very gracious about exchanging the
wrong part, since I had not open up any packaging. When
the held the old part in their hand, they just shook
their heads. Apparently, I am not the first person with
the problem.

CY: I can believe that.

The symptom was poor cooling and a transient smell
of burning rubber.

The condenser fan was found to leaking oil and
was replaced. Air flow increased substantially.
Also the lower coils were coated in dust. They
were cleaned.
CY: Both very important. I've seen refrig failures
due to bad fans, and also due to dust.

The compressor and the relay made no noise. My
wife described the typical noise as a snap, followed
by a short whooshing noise. None were present.
Stormin' told me to look for noise.
CY: Would that be "listen for"?


Measuring the resistance of the condenser came out
normal.

CY: I suspect you mean "of the compressor".

Measuring the voltage to the relay was
also normal at 115 VAC. A rattling noise was
observed when I shook the relay in my hand.
The new relay had no rattle.

CY: I'd likely not have noticed that.


Also, the capacitor fit perfectly on the the
8201769 replacement relay.

When I FINALLY replaced the relay with the correct part
and plugged the thing in: no noise. S***! Then
about 5 seconds later a loud snap and a rattle
from the compressor. The rattle diminished in about 8
seconds to quiet. S*** again. So I unplugged it and let
it sit. This time a loud snap, but no rattle.

CY: Sounds odd.

Oh No! Then I realized that once the condenser gets to
pressure, it becomes silent. It also takes a long time
to release that pressure. It also says my condenser is
in good shape.

CY: Most of the time, condenser doesn't make
any noise at all. It's just a series of tubes
and fins.


My compressor is a Matsu****a (Panasonic's parent company).
Yippee!

So I felt the outgoing and incoming freon lines. The
outgoing was hot and the incoming was cold. 2x yippee!
I take back the bad words. Then I felt the air
coming out the front of the unit. It was
warm. 3x yippee!

CY: Yes, that does sound normal.


The refrigerator cooled faster than I remember it ever
cooling (I can remember back to 2001). In about 1/2 hour
it was down to temperature. My wife has been playing
with the controls to cherry it out. This morning
it was -2F in the freezer section and 32F in the
refrigerator section.

CY: Sounds ideal. Might be a bit cold in refrig, but
no big worries.


Lessons learned:

That part number on the part trumps the parts diagram

Parts diagrams are only an aid. They are not exact.

Always take the part with you

Measure the voltage to the relay

Measure the resistance across the pins on the compressor

Look at total cost of ownership, not just the original price
of an appliance. (New refrigerators are now 5 to 7
year units. Better to repair an old, good unit.)

Changing compressors (soldering/welding, purging, recharging)
is over my head. But nothing else is!

Listen to your wife. She will know every noise that goes
bump in the night. Women are more observant than guys
anyway.

Always go fishing (hey, it clears your head)

I really appreciate all the help and encouragement everyone
gave me. Special thanks to Stormin', who kicked it when
finally provided with the proper information.

CY: Glad to be of some help.

Man that refrigerator is working nice now! And now that
I have fixed it, I have a certain pride in it too.

-T

CY: In some churches, pride is a sin.


..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Thu, 11 Sep 2014 21:11:42 -0700, Todd wrote:

Lessons learned:

That part number on the part trumps the parts diagram

Parts diagrams are only an aid. They are not exact.

Always take the part with you

Measure the voltage to the relay

Measure the resistance across the pins on the compressor

Look at total cost of ownership, not just the original price
of an appliance. (New refrigerators are now 5 to 7
year units. Better to repair an old, good unit.)

Changing compressors (soldering/welding, purging, recharging)
is over my head. But nothing else is!

Listen to your wife. She will know every noise that goes
bump in the night. Women are more observant than guys
anyway.

Always go fishing (hey, it clears your head)

I really appreciate all the help and encouragement everyone
gave me. Special thanks to Stormin', who kicked it when
finally provided with the proper information.

Man that refrigerator is working nice now! And now that
I have fixed it, I have a certain pride in it too.

Good job, Todd!

I've seen the "relay" called a start device, the capacitor called a
"run capacitor". It's like learning Japanese arithmetic

On 09/12/2014 05:39 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
CY: Text inserted inline after my initials.
On 9/12/2014 12:11 AM, Todd wrote:


Measuring the resistance of the condenser came out
normal.

CY: I suspect you mean "of the compressor".

Yes

Measuring the voltage to the relay was
also normal at 115 VAC. A rattling noise was
observed when I shook the relay in my hand.
The new relay had no rattle.

CY: I'd likely not have noticed that.

My favorite tech told me to look for that
when I called him the second time on the phone.
He also told me to try smelling it.


Also, the capacitor fit perfectly on the the
8201769 replacement relay.

When I FINALLY replaced the relay with the correct part
and plugged the thing in: no noise. S***! Then
about 5 seconds later a loud snap and a rattle
from the compressor. The rattle diminished in about 8
seconds to quiet. S*** again. So I unplugged it and let
it sit. This time a loud snap, but no rattle.

CY: Sounds odd.

Not really. Pressure had not dissipated.


Oh No! Then I realized that once the condenser gets to
pressure, it becomes silent. It also takes a long time
to release that pressure. It also says my condenser is
in good shape.

CY: Most of the time, condenser doesn't make
any noise at all. It's just a series of tubes
and fins.

Should have said "compressor"


My compressor is a Matsu****a (Panasonic's parent company).
Yippee!

So I felt the outgoing and incoming freon lines. The
outgoing was hot and the incoming was cold. 2x yippee!
I take back the bad words. Then I felt the air
coming out the front of the unit. It was
warm. 3x yippee!

CY: Yes, that does sound normal.


The refrigerator cooled faster than I remember it ever
cooling (I can remember back to 2001). In about 1/2 hour
it was down to temperature. My wife has been playing
with the controls to cherry it out. This morning
it was -2F in the freezer section and 32F in the
refrigerator section.

CY: Sounds ideal. Might be a bit cold in refrig, but
no big worries.

Still tweaking.

I am thinking that it is better not to block the top back
of the refrigerator cavity, so the wind from the freezer
section can evenly blow over everything and not create
a frozen stop in the back of the refrigerator.


CY: In some churches, pride is a sin.

You are correct. Warm fuzzies from accomplishment
are different than conceit (bad pride), especially when
the warm fuzzies come with a sense of humility.
Humility is the opposite of the bad pride you are
speaking of. The Lord touched me and my family
through the entire learning curve, both directly
with encouragement and indirectly through the friendship
of others.

Thank you for helping me with this.

What is your technical opinion of me purchasing both
fans and an extra relay in advance of the next failure?
My thought is that the parts may not be available in
10 years or so and I really, really don't want to
purchase a new, 5 to 7 year refrigerator.

-T

On 09/12/2014 11:26 AM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 11 Sep 2014 21:11:42 -0700, Todd wrote:

Lessons learned:

That part number on the part trumps the parts diagram

Parts diagrams are only an aid. They are not exact.

Always take the part with you

Measure the voltage to the relay

Measure the resistance across the pins on the compressor

Look at total cost of ownership, not just the original price
of an appliance. (New refrigerators are now 5 to 7
year units. Better to repair an old, good unit.)

Changing compressors (soldering/welding, purging, recharging)
is over my head. But nothing else is!

Listen to your wife. She will know every noise that goes
bump in the night. Women are more observant than guys
anyway.

Always go fishing (hey, it clears your head)

I really appreciate all the help and encouragement everyone
gave me. Special thanks to Stormin', who kicked it when
finally provided with the proper information.

Man that refrigerator is working nice now! And now that
I have fixed it, I have a certain pride in it too.

Good job, Todd!

I've seen the "relay" called a start device, the capacitor called a
"run capacitor". It's like learning Japanese arithmetic


Thank you for all the help and encouragement.

CY: I suspect you mean "of the compressor".

Yes
CY: I've mixed up part names. Happens to most folks.

Measuring the voltage to the relay was
also normal at 115 VAC. A rattling noise was
observed when I shook the relay in my hand.
The new relay had no rattle.

CY: I'd likely not have noticed that.

My favorite tech told me to look for that
when I called him the second time on the phone.
He also told me to try smelling it.

CY: I thought I was (am) your favorite?


Also, the capacitor fit perfectly on the the
8201769 replacement relay.

When I FINALLY replaced the relay with the correct part
and plugged the thing in: no noise. S***! Then
about 5 seconds later a loud snap and a rattle
from the compressor. The rattle diminished in about 8
seconds to quiet. S*** again. So I unplugged it and let
it sit. This time a loud snap, but no rattle.

CY: Sounds odd.

Not really. Pressure had not dissipated.
CY: Glad that worked out.



Oh No! Then I realized that once the condenser gets to
pressure, it becomes silent. It also takes a long time
to release that pressure. It also says my condenser is
in good shape.

CY: Most of the time, condenser doesn't make
any noise at all. It's just a series of tubes
and fins.

Should have said "compressor"


My compressor is a Matsu****a (Panasonic's parent company).
Yippee!

So I felt the outgoing and incoming freon lines. The
outgoing was hot and the incoming was cold. 2x yippee!
I take back the bad words. Then I felt the air
coming out the front of the unit. It was
warm. 3x yippee!

CY: Yes, that does sound normal.


The refrigerator cooled faster than I remember it ever
cooling (I can remember back to 2001). In about 1/2 hour
it was down to temperature. My wife has been playing
with the controls to cherry it out. This morning
it was -2F in the freezer section and 32F in the
refrigerator section.

CY: Sounds ideal. Might be a bit cold in refrig, but
no big worries.

Still tweaking.
CY: You'll get it.


I am thinking that it is better not to block the top back
of the refrigerator cavity, so the wind from the freezer
section can evenly blow over everything and not create
a frozen stop in the back of the refrigerator.


CY: In some churches, pride is a sin.

You are correct. Warm fuzzies from accomplishment
are different than conceit (bad pride), especially when
the warm fuzzies come with a sense of humility.
Humility is the opposite of the bad pride you are
speaking of. The Lord touched me and my family
through the entire learning curve, both directly
with encouragement and indirectly through the friendship
of others.
CY: about 1975 or so, someone gave my family a
mimeographed print of the warm fuzzy story. I
remember it well enough, I can probably tell it.
Nice to know you are effective partly of your self,
and mostly through God's help, and partly through
your friends' help. Having the gift of the Holy
Ghost (through ordinance) I enjoy personal revelation
often enough.


Thank you for helping me with this.

What is your technical opinion of me purchasing both
fans and an extra relay in advance of the next failure?
My thought is that the parts may not be available in
10 years or so and I really, really don't want to
purchase a new, 5 to 7 year refrigerator.
CY: The fan in back is probably a two watt clockwise unit
fan, and should be available. If that's the case, don't
tie up your money. The start relay you can sub a Supco
hard start kit. The evaporator fan in the freezer might
be hard to source. If I'd buy any of these, it would be
the evaporator motor.


-T

..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 17:49:14 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

Having the gift of the Holy
Ghost (through ordinance) I enjoy personal revelation
often enough.

I'm confused. You say only the LDS teaches the Holy Ghost.

Christians, some believe in the Trinity. Father, Son and Holy Sprit.
Southern Baptists for example.

Do you just call the Holy Ghost something differnt than the Holy
Spirt? Or are you saying only LDS are smarter?

On 9/12/2014 6:06 PM, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 17:49:14 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

Having the gift of the Holy
Ghost (through ordinance) I enjoy personal revelation
often enough.

I'm confused. You say only the LDS teaches the Holy Ghost.

Christians, some believe in the Trinity. Father, Son and Holy Sprit.
Southern Baptists for example.

Do you just call the Holy Ghost something differnt than the Holy
Spirt? Or are you saying only LDS are smarter?

Lot of churches teach of, and about the Holy Ghost.
Only the LDS has the authority of the priesthood to
give the gift of the Holy Ghost. This ordinance is
done after baptism, by members of the priesthood.

I was given the gift after my baptism. Some time
later, I was ordained. And I've given the gift of
the HG twice to people who were just baptized.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 18:27:14 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 9/12/2014 6:06 PM, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 17:49:14 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

Having the gift of the Holy
Ghost (through ordinance) I enjoy personal revelation
often enough.

I'm confused. You say only the LDS teaches the Holy Ghost.

Christians, some believe in the Trinity. Father, Son and Holy Sprit.
Southern Baptists for example.

Do you just call the Holy Ghost something differnt than the Holy
Spirt? Or are you saying only LDS are smarter?

Lot of churches teach of, and about the Holy Ghost.
Only the LDS has the authority of the priesthood to
give the gift of the Holy Ghost. This ordinance is
done after baptism, by members of the priesthood.

Why is it only the LDS that has the "authority? Sounds like
intolerance of another faith belief?

I was given the gift after my baptism. Some time
later, I was ordained. And I've given the gift of
the HG twice to people who were just baptized.

Are you saying my baptismal and surrender to a higher power is not
worthy? Who put the LDS in charge? Who decided only the LDS know what
is best for man?

Do the LDS really believe only one religion is mandated? And mandknid
cannot have other beliefs? I'm interested in the "mandate".

On 09/12/2014 03:06 PM, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 17:49:14 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

Having the gift of the Holy
Ghost (through ordinance) I enjoy personal revelation
often enough.

I'm confused. You say only the LDS teaches the Holy Ghost.

Christians, some believe in the Trinity. Father, Son and Holy Sprit.
Southern Baptists for example.

Do you just call the Holy Ghost something differnt than the Holy
Spirt? Or are you saying only LDS are smarter?


Hi Oren,

All Christians believe in the Trinity. Mormons (polytheists)
are a completely different religion from Christianity (monotheists).
Mormons reuse Christian names, which makes for a lot of confusion.
Mormons can be very nice people, like Stormin', for instance.

http://carm.org/comparison-between-c...ormon-doctrine

Christian:
"The Trinity is the doctrine that there is only one God in
all the universe, and that He exists in three eternal,
simultaneous persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy
Spirit."

Mormon:
"The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son,
and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate
individuals, physically distinct from each other, is
demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings
with man,"
--Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35).

Mormonism distinguishes between the Holy Spirit (God's
presence via an essence) and the Holy Ghost (the third
god in the Mormon doctrine of the trinity). He [the
Holy Ghost] is a being endowed with the attributes
and powers of Deity, and not a mere force, or essence
--Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 144).

In Christianity (monotheism), the Trinity in a the same one
and only god. In Mormonism (polytheism), they are they
distinct individuals. Mormons have lots of gods and believe
they can become one themselves. The Trinity is just a particular
bunch of three gods.

In Orthodox Christianity (my religion), we teach that
the Trinity is how the one and only God chooses to
present himself to us:

God who created me and loves me (Father)

God beside me who loves and teaches me (Jesus/son)

God inside me who loves and guides me (Holy Spirit/Ghost)

Hope that clears it up.

-T

There are good people in every country, race and religion.

When my father left Ukraine at the beginning of WWII he was only about 16 years old. They were fairly well to do in a country where no one had much of anything, but they left everything and set out across Europe to get, hopefully to neutral Switzerland. They didn't want to live under a Communist Russian thumb, but even that was better than being exterminated as an inferior race by the Germans. My father remembers asking his father how they were going to fare, since they wouldn't know anyone where they were going, and no one would know them.

My dad's dad just said "There are good people everywhere.", and with a hope, a prayer, and that faith that there would be good people along the way that would help them, they set out for Switzerland.

By the end of the war, they had made it as far as a refugee camp in Austria, where my dad and a few other guys made soap for the whole camp. The Allies recognized the need for cleanliness in such crowded conditions, so my dad got the undesireable job of making soap. It was an undesireable job because he had to use lye to make the soap, and lye is a very harsh chemical to work with, but the working conditions were good, and he knew he had to do something to earn his keep.

But, they eventually made it across the ocean to Canada as Canadian immigrants, and it was because there are good people everywhere on this Earth that were willing to help others.

Stormin is just one of them, just like many of the other people in here and everywhere.

On 9/12/2014 6:44 PM, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 18:27:14 -0400, Stormin Mormon
Lot of churches teach of, and about the Holy Ghost.
Only the LDS has the authority of the priesthood to
give the gift of the Holy Ghost. This ordinance is
done after baptism, by members of the priesthood.

Why is it only the LDS that has the "authority? Sounds like
intolerance of another faith belief?

I was given the gift after my baptism. Some time
later, I was ordained. And I've given the gift of
the HG twice to people who were just baptized.

Are you saying my baptismal and surrender to a higher power is not
worthy? Who put the LDS in charge? Who decided only the LDS know what
is best for man?

Do the LDS really believe only one religion is mandated? And mandknid
cannot have other beliefs? I'm interested in the "mandate".


People who are baptized by other churches, the baptism
accomplishes nothing. This was discussed in the early
LDS days. The Lord's decree was (paraphrasing) that those
works were of no benefit, and that the converts needed to
be bapitzed and confirmed by proper authority.

Yes, one church is mandated. The other churches don't
have authority. Glad you're interested. You can find some
about it in the first chapters of Doctrine and Covenants.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 09/12/2014 06:20 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 9/12/2014 6:44 PM, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 18:27:14 -0400, Stormin Mormon
Lot of churches teach of, and about the Holy Ghost.
Only the LDS has the authority of the priesthood to
give the gift of the Holy Ghost. This ordinance is
done after baptism, by members of the priesthood.

Why is it only the LDS that has the "authority? Sounds like
intolerance of another faith belief?

I was given the gift after my baptism. Some time
later, I was ordained. And I've given the gift of
the HG twice to people who were just baptized.

Are you saying my baptismal and surrender to a higher power is not
worthy? Who put the LDS in charge? Who decided only the LDS know what
is best for man?

Do the LDS really believe only one religion is mandated? And mandknid
cannot have other beliefs? I'm interested in the "mandate".


People who are baptized by other churches, the baptism
accomplishes nothing. This was discussed in the early
LDS days. The Lord's decree was (paraphrasing) that those
works were of no benefit, and that the converts needed to
be bapitzed and confirmed by proper authority.

Yes, one church is mandated. The other churches don't
have authority. Glad you're interested. You can find some
about it in the first chapters of Doctrine and Covenants.


Hi Oren and Stromin',

This is what the Ancient Christian church teaches:

Does someone have to belong to the Orthodox Church
to be saved?

A common explanation is that we know where the Church is,
but not where it is not. ”As to those people who are good
and kind but are not believers, we cannot and must not
judge them. The ways of the Lord are inscrutable; letus
leave these good people entirely to His judgment and
to the grace of His Providence. He alone knows how and
why He has built the argosy of humanity, and the small
boat of each one of us, such as it is.”
--St. Macarius of Optina

This is why I will be smacking Stormin' over his angelic head
with a rolled up newspaper in heaven.

You can both read more over at:

http://orthodoxchristianityblog.word...thodox-church/

-T

On 9/12/2014 7:15 PM, Todd wrote:
Hi Oren,

All Christians believe in the Trinity.

CY: I'd dare to guess that "All Christians" is
false. Bible readers of the world have argued
about this for the last thousand years or so.


Mormons (polytheists)
are a completely different religion from Christianity (monotheists).
Mormons reuse Christian names, which makes for a lot of confusion.
Mormons can be very nice people, like Stormin', for instance.

CY: Thank you for the compliment.


http://carm.org/comparison-between-c...ormon-doctrine

Christian:
"The Trinity is the doctrine that there is only one God in
all the universe, and that He exists in three eternal,
simultaneous persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy
Spirit."

CY: And, so, you think that you can write a doctrine that
is acceptable to all Christian churches? How about the
Nicean Creed, or the view of the Jehovas Witness?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity
I had a glance at this, but didn't waste much time on it.
You'd be well served by realizing that not all Christians
follow your simple description.




Mormon:
"The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son,
and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate
individuals, physically distinct from each other, is
demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings
with man,"
--Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35).

Mormonism distinguishes between the Holy Spirit (God's
presence via an essence) and the Holy Ghost (the third
god in the Mormon doctrine of the trinity). He [the
Holy Ghost] is a being endowed with the attributes
and powers of Deity, and not a mere force, or essence
--Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 144).

In Christianity (monotheism), the Trinity in a the same one
and only god.

CY: Wonder what happens if I copy this to the local Presbyterian,
Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, Amish, Anabaptist, 7th
Day Adventist, Jehovas Witness, and other Christian churches? I'll
tell them that Todd says this is their doctrine. Of course they
will all agree with Todd, right?

In Mormonism (polytheism), they are they
distinct individuals. Mormons have lots of gods and believe
they can become one themselves. The Trinity is just a particular
bunch of three gods.

In Orthodox Christianity (my religion), we teach that
the Trinity is how the one and only God chooses to
present himself to us:

God who created me and loves me (Father)

God beside me who loves and teaches me (Jesus/son)

God inside me who loves and guides me (Holy Spirit/Ghost)

Hope that clears it up.

CY: You really should contact the churches near you
and tell them what they believe.


-T

On 9/12/2014 7:15 PM, Todd wrote:
Christian:
"The Trinity is the doctrine that there is only one God in
all the universe, and that He exists in three eternal,
simultaneous persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy
Spirit."


Hope that clears it up.

-T



When Jesus prayed, who was He talking to? Himself?

"Oh Me, my will be done. But not as I wilt, but
as my own will, if I should have this bitter cup
to pass, but not as I will, but my will be done,
oh Me..."

And at Christ's baptism, he descended from himself
onto himself, in the form of himself, and a voice
was heard "This is my beloved self, in whom I am
well pleased."

Hey, that's what monotheists believe. Right, Todd?

..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 9/12/2014 9:52 PM, Todd wrote:

This is why I will be smacking Stormin'
over his angelic head
with a rolled up newspaper in heaven.

-T

More threats of violence? I wonder what Christ
would say. "Put up thy sword" or maybe "Put
up thy news paper, Todd."

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Personally, I think that arguments over religion are dumb. There are good people in every religion.

As long as a person lives by the Golden Rule, it doesn't matter what religion they are. They can worship the Sun for all I care, if they treat other people they same way they'd want to be treated, they're a good person. All the other details don't matter.

So, arguing over what religion they adhere to is dumb. What matters is how they treat the people they deal with in everyday life.

On 09/12/2014 09:20 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

People who are baptized by other churches, the baptism
accomplishes nothing. This was discussed in the early
LDS days. The Lord's decree was (paraphrasing) that those
works were of no benefit, and that the converts needed to
be bapitzed and confirmed by proper authority.

Yes, one church is mandated. The other churches don't
have authority. Glad you're interested. You can find some
about it in the first chapters of Doctrine and Covenants.


Baptism is a registered trademark of the Landover Baptist Church.

If you want an official baptism, you'll have to go he

http://www.landoverbaptist.org

You can make your own holy water ( 2 parts hydrogen and 1 part oxygen and a little spark ) and perform the baptism online.

On 09/13/2014 05:20 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 9/12/2014 9:52 PM, Todd wrote:

This is why I will be smacking Stormin'
over his angelic head
with a rolled up newspaper in heaven.

-T

More threats of violence? I wonder what Christ
would say. "Put up thy sword" or maybe "Put
up thy news paper, Todd."


Would probably say "You get to tell him 70
times 7 more times 'I told you so'. And
don't hit him too hard, he is not a dog.
This is eternity, after all. Now remind
him he still has to fix my refrigerator.
And, where did he get that silly Elvis
costume?" Modesty forbids me.

:-)

On 09/13/2014 05:18 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
When Jesus prayed, who was He talking to? Himself?

Yup. He was praying to the "Father" part of himself.

On 09/13/2014 05:16 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

CY: Wonder what happens if I copy this to the local Presbyterian,
Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, Amish, Anabaptist, 7th
Day Adventist, Jehovas Witness, and other Christian churches? I'll
tell them that Todd says this is their doctrine. Of course they
will all agree with Todd, right?

Pretty much so. You should give them a ring and see
for your self. Any differences are going to be minor.

Please do not include Jehovas Witness in with Christians. They
are not. Like yours, they are their own religion.

http://godandscience.org/cults/jwdiff.html

On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 21:20:35 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

People who are baptized by other churches, the baptism
accomplishes nothing. This was discussed in the early
LDS days. The Lord's decree was (paraphrasing) that those
works were of no benefit, and that the converts needed to
be bapitzed and confirmed by proper authority.

Yes, one church is mandated. The other churches don't
have authority. Glad you're interested. You can find some
about it in the first chapters of Doctrine and Covenants.

You make it sound like Jesus was baptized by Mormons. If he wasn't;
then it means nothing? What makes you believe the LDS is the only
authority? Maybe you mean there is only room in this world for just
one religion and it has to be what you and the LDS think.

On 9/13/2014 2:19 PM, Todd wrote:
On 09/13/2014 05:16 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

CY: Wonder what happens if I copy this to the local Presbyterian,
Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, Amish, Anabaptist, 7th
Day Adventist, Jehovas Witness, and other Christian churches? I'll
tell them that Todd says this is their doctrine. Of course they
will all agree with Todd, right?

Pretty much so. You should give them a ring and see
for your self. Any differences are going to be minor.

Please do not include Jehovas Witness in with Christians. They
are not. Like yours, they are their own religion.

http://godandscience.org/cults/jwdiff.html


Hey, you're the one making the assertion. You
follow up if you want. Since you keep saying that
the Church of Jesus Christ is not Christian, you
have no more credibility with me. None.


..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 09/13/2014 11:34 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 9/13/2014 2:19 PM, Todd wrote:
On 09/13/2014 05:16 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

CY: Wonder what happens if I copy this to the local Presbyterian,
Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, Amish, Anabaptist, 7th
Day Adventist, Jehovas Witness, and other Christian churches? I'll
tell them that Todd says this is their doctrine. Of course they
will all agree with Todd, right?

Pretty much so. You should give them a ring and see
for your self. Any differences are going to be minor.

Please do not include Jehovas Witness in with Christians. They
are not. Like yours, they are their own religion.

http://godandscience.org/cults/jwdiff.html


Hey, you're the one making the assertion. You
follow up if you want. Since you keep saying that
the Church of Jesus Christ is not Christian, you
have no more credibility with me. None.

If you really believe that stuff, then Morani
is correct and I am an Abomination and would
have very little credibility with you. So
you are correct.
And if you want to a Christian, you have to
believe in the Christian Jesus. The one
who existed before time itself. The one
who created the universe. If you are curious
about us, start with the Gospel of John.

Speaking of the Christan Jesus and the Gospel
of John (KJV). A great introduction to Jesus
and the second Creation Story in the Bible.
John Ch 1, vs 1-5:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was
with God, and the Word was God.

The same was in the beginning with God.

All things were made by him; and without him was
not any thing made that was made.

In him was life; and the life was the light of
men.

And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness
comprehended it not.

Jesus was before time itself and he created everything.
Obviously not the Mormon Jesus. (And he wouldn't have
had to take a boat to get to the new world.)

By the way, the chapter goes on describing Jesus and is
medicine to the soul.

On the other hand, if you want to believe in
the Jesus who has a biological father and
mother and lots of aunts and uncles that are
also gods, that creation already existed and that
God had to walk amongst it before being elevated
to god status, that engaged in polygamy with humans
(Roman and Greek gods did a lot of that too),
and you want to become a god yourself and rule your
own planet, then you are in the right place.

You obviously turned out okay. You may not know
the Jesus of the Christians, but he knows you.

If you look at how Mormons act, although spiritually
misguided, they are not such a bad thing to be.
All of society benefits when religions complete
in the arena of good works.

I sense that you are getting your feelings hurt by
this discussion. Don't let it. I consider you
a blessing in my life.

-T

On 9/13/2014 2:34 PM, Oren wrote:

Yes, one church is mandated. The other churches don't
have authority. Glad you're interested. You can find some
about it in the first chapters of Doctrine and Covenants.

You make it sound like Jesus was baptized by Mormons.

CY: Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist, who had
the authority. That authority has been passsed down.

If he wasn't;
then it means nothing?

CY: See above.

What makes you believe the LDS is the only
authority?

CY: Prayer, and confirmation by the Spirit.

Maybe you mean there is only room in this world for just
one religion and it has to be what you and the LDS think.

CY: Unlike some who kill non believers, we
allow lots of room for other views. That's one
of the 12 articles of faith, to allow others to
worship as and how they desire.


..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 9/13/2014 3:15 PM, Todd wrote:
Hey, you're the one making the assertion. You
follow up if you want. Since you keep saying that
the Church of Jesus Christ is not Christian, you
have no more credibility with me. None.

If you really believe that stuff, then Morani
is correct and I am an Abomination and would
have very little credibility with you. So
you are correct.

CY: As to the "abomination" quote, IIRC that was
God the Father who said that.

And if you want to a Christian, you have to
believe in the Christian Jesus. The one
who existed before time itself. The one
who created the universe. If you are curious
about us, start with the Gospel of John.

CY: I don't accept your def'n of what I need to
be.

Speaking of the Christan Jesus and the Gospel
of John (KJV). A great introduction to Jesus
and the second Creation Story in the Bible.
John Ch 1, vs 1-5:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was
with God, and the Word was God.

The same was in the beginning with God.

All things were made by him; and without him was
not any thing made that was made.

In him was life; and the life was the light of
men.

And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness
comprehended it not.


CY: Have I not many times mentioned that the LDS church
uses the King James version of the Bible quite extensively?

Jesus was before time itself and he created everything.
Obviously not the Mormon Jesus. (And he wouldn't have
had to take a boat to get to the new world.)

By the way, the chapter goes on describing Jesus and is
medicine to the soul.

On the other hand, if you want to believe in
the Jesus who has a biological father and
mother and lots of aunts and uncles that are
also gods, that creation already existed and that
God had to walk amongst it before being elevated
to god status, that engaged in polygamy with humans
(Roman and Greek gods did a lot of that too),
and you want to become a god yourself and rule your
own planet, then you are in the right place.

You obviously turned out okay. You may not know
the Jesus of the Christians, but he knows you.

If you look at how Mormons act, although spiritually
misguided, they are not such a bad thing to be.
All of society benefits when religions complete
in the arena of good works.

I sense that you are getting your feelings hurt by
this discussion. Don't let it. I consider you
a blessing in my life.

CY: Baah, consider the source.


-T





..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 09/13/2014 01:01 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:


CY: As to the "abomination" quote, IIRC that was
God the Father who said that.

So it was repeated by Morani then

On 09/13/2014 01:01 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
If you are curious
about us, start with the Gospel of John.

CY: I don't accept your def'n of what I need to
be.

I wasn't telling you what you needed to be.
I was telling you if you were curious about us.

On 09/13/2014 01:01 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
CY: Have I not many times mentioned that the LDS church
uses the King James version of the Bible quite extensively?

Yes. But you believe other than what it says.

And if you have revelations that tells you the Bible
is wrong, then everything else in the Bible is suspect
and it amounts to mere toilet paper.

On 9/13/2014 4:20 PM, Todd wrote:
On 09/13/2014 01:01 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:


CY: As to the "abomination" quote, IIRC that was
God the Father who said that.

So it was repeated by Morani then

Prophets do occasionally quote God the Father.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 9/13/2014 4:21 PM, Todd wrote:
On 09/13/2014 01:01 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
If you are curious
about us, start with the Gospel of John.

CY: I don't accept your def'n of what I need to
be.

I wasn't telling you what you needed to be.
I was telling you if you were curious about us.

I'm only mildly curious in passing what wrong
people believe. You, I've heard enough.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Sat, 13 Sep 2014 15:59:18 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 9/13/2014 2:34 PM, Oren wrote:

Yes, one church is mandated. The other churches don't
have authority. Glad you're interested. You can find some
about it in the first chapters of Doctrine and Covenants.

You make it sound like Jesus was baptized by Mormons.

CY: Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist, who had
the authority. That authority has been passsed down.


Sounds like you made my point. Mormons are not the ultimate authority
on baptism. John the Baptist was not a Mormon.

If he wasn't;
then it means nothing?

CY: See above.


See above.

What makes you believe the LDS is the only
authority?

CY: Prayer, and confirmation by the Spirit.

Please clarify that Mormons are given that authority.

Maybe you mean there is only room in this world for just
one religion and it has to be what you and the LDS think.

CY: Unlike some who kill non believers, we
allow lots of room for other views. That's one
of the 12 articles of faith, to allow others to
worship as and how they desire.

Mormons accept Voodoo or Santería practitioners? Who vetted these
people...?

As a Mormon, would you attend a Baptist church service. If not, why
not?

On 9/13/2014 4:24 PM, Todd wrote:
On 09/13/2014 01:01 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
CY: Have I not many times mentioned that the LDS church
uses the King James version of the Bible quite extensively?

Yes. But you believe other than what it says.

And if you have revelations that tells you the Bible
is wrong, then everything else in the Bible is suspect
and it amounts to mere toilet paper.


Wrong, and wrong.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 09/13/2014 12:59 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
CY: Unlike some who kill non believers,

That would be the Muslims

we
allow lots of room for other views. That's one
of the 12 articles of faith, to allow others to
worship as and how they desire.

What did the FLDS do that these 12 articles did
not apply? Seems to me that all they are only trying to
do is to restore the original teachings of the LDS.

On 09/13/2014 01:28 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 9/13/2014 4:24 PM, Todd wrote:
On 09/13/2014 01:01 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
CY: Have I not many times mentioned that the LDS church
uses the King James version of the Bible quite extensively?

Yes. But you believe other than what it says.

And if you have revelations that tells you the Bible
is wrong, then everything else in the Bible is suspect
and it amounts to mere toilet paper.


Wrong, and wrong.

How about this one?

I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of
the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
--Genisus 20, 2-3

And

Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer,
the Lord of hosts: ‘I am the first and I am the last,
And there is no God besides Me.
--Isaiah 44:6

Or this one?

“Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold,
a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will
call His name Immanuel.
--Isaiah 7:14

There are lost of others too.

You are obviously picking and choosing what you want to read.
Your revelations make the Bible no better than toilet paper.

By the way, a guy older than the universe itself having sex with
human females. Doesn't that strike you as a bit creepy.
Or is pedophilia okay as long as you don't look old?

-T

On 9/13/2014 4:28 PM, Oren wrote:

You make it sound like Jesus was baptized by Mormons.

CY: Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist, who had
the authority. That authority has been passsed down.


Sounds like you made my point. Mormons are not the ultimate authority
on baptism. John the Baptist was not a Mormon.

CY: He had the priesthood of Aaron, as Mormons do
at present.


If he wasn't;
then it means nothing?

CY: See above.


See above.

What makes you believe the LDS is the only
authority?

CY: Prayer, and confirmation by the Spirit.

Please clarify that Mormons are given that authority.
CY: Mormons have the priesthood of Aaron, and
of Melchizidek.


Maybe you mean there is only room in this world for just
one religion and it has to be what you and the LDS think.

CY: Unlike some who kill non believers, we
allow lots of room for other views. That's one
of the 12 articles of faith, to allow others to
worship as and how they desire.

Mormons accept Voodoo or Santería practitioners? Who vetted these
people...?

CY: It's their choice.


As a Mormon, would you attend a Baptist church service. If not, why
not?

CY: Sure. I've not yet, but I'm sure I would.
I've attended Catholic, Free Methodist, and
Pentacostal. I'd visit Baptist service some
day. One of my friends from SC is Baptist,
and I've offered to go to his church if
I'm in the area.


..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 9/13/2014 4:33 PM, Todd wrote:
On 09/13/2014 12:59 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
CY: Unlike some who kill non believers,

That would be the Muslims

CY: They sure fit the descrip.

we
allow lots of room for other views. That's one
of the 12 articles of faith, to allow others to
worship as and how they desire.

What did the FLDS do that these 12 articles did
not apply? Seems to me that all they are only trying to
do is to restore the original teachings of the LDS.

CY: I don't know a lot about the FLDS.
"articles did not apply" means, what?

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..