A funny thing happened when the "carefully chosen" o-rings arrived.
They are all the wrong size!

My wife smiled, gently chiding me, a bit incredulously ...
"After all that work, you ordered the wrong ones?"

Yup. Mea culpa. They're *all* the wrong size!
Apparently, I didn't double check the numbers!

It (apparently) turns out that the "O-number" system I've been cross
referencing is a proprietary standard, used *only* by the Alladin company.
http://www.aladdin1950.com

So, for example, a Sta-Rite pump basket lid O-ring U9-375 cross references
to an Alladin O-12, which is not even close to the AS568 O-Ring size O-12.

An O-12 actually is this (much smaller) AS568 o-ring:
O-12 nominal CS=1/16" ID=3/8" OD=1/2" actual ID=.364±.005" CS=.070±.003"

While, measurements of "my" pump basket lid O-ring show it's closer to:
O-439 nominal CS=1/4" ID=6-1/2" OD=7" actual ID=6.475±.040" CS=.275±.006"

Even I had to laugh at myself, thinking: Here's a classic case of what
happens when you accept the numbers at face value (and don't double check
all sizes with actual measurements!).

New mantra: Check thrice; order once!

In summary, it seems that one company, Alladin, dominates replacement
o-rings for pools, and that company uses a proprietary (unpublished?)
o-dash numbering system that mimics the standard o-dash numbering system
in both look and feel - yet the two numbering systems are (apparently)
wholly unrelated! (AFAICT)

Given that, I'll need to measure all my old (worn) o-rings, in order
to cross reference to the "real" AS568 o-ring O-dash size.

Serves me right for taking things at face value!

QUESTION:
What's the best tool to *measure* o-rings (enough to match to charts)?
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13295487.jpg

On Tue, 11 Jun 2013 16:27:10 +0000 (UTC), Danny D
wrote:

A funny thing happened when the "carefully chosen" o-rings arrived.
They are all the wrong size!


LMAO

My wife smiled, gently chiding me, a bit incredulously ...
"After all that work, you ordered the wrong ones?"


Wise man: "Study long, you study wrong"

Yup. Mea culpa. They're *all* the wrong size!
Apparently, I didn't double check the numbers!


A kit would have be ~$25 at a pool store chuckle

This is the post of the year, Danny. Do huckleberries come to mind?

On Tue, 11 Jun 2013 09:36:10 -0700, Oren wrote:

A kit would have be ~$25 at a pool store chuckle

Well, to be fair, the pump kit doesn't include all the o-rings
(e.g., the GO-KIT38 doesn't have the two drain plug o-rings).

And, the filter kit includes too many o-rings!

Besides, a kit wouldn't be any fun!

On Tue, 11 Jun 2013 15:16:45 -0400, gfretwell wrote:

I could have charged $10+ a copy for the cross reference list
I had from Harley parts to the industry part.

Indeed!

I see now how valuable it would be to have a cross reference
of all of a car or bike's o-rings to trade sizes!

All we'd need to do is *measure* the pristine o-rings and then
cross reference them to the standard sizes.

But, what's the "trick" to measuring them accurately?

The cross section is "squishy"; and the inner diameter variable
(unless you can measure the mating groove).

Is the only trick to measure "gently"?
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13295487.jpg

Danny D posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP


A funny thing happened when the "carefully chosen" o-rings arrived.
They are all the wrong size!

My wife smiled, gently chiding me, a bit incredulously ...
"After all that work, you ordered the wrong ones?"

Yup. Mea culpa. They're *all* the wrong size!
Apparently, I didn't double check the numbers!

It (apparently) turns out that the "O-number" system I've been cross
referencing is a proprietary standard, used *only* by the Alladin company..
http://www.aladdin1950.com

So, for example, a Sta-Rite pump basket lid O-ring U9-375 cross references
to an Alladin O-12, which is not even close to the AS568 O-Ring size O-12..

An O-12 actually is this (much smaller) AS568 o-ring:
O-12 nominal CS=1/16" ID=3/8" OD=1/2" actual ID=.364±.005" CS=.070±.003"

While, measurements of "my" pump basket lid O-ring show it's closer to:
O-439 nominal CS=1/4" ID=6-1/2" OD=7" actual ID=6.475±.040" CS=.275±.006"

Even I had to laugh at myself, thinking: Here's a classic case of what
happens when you accept the numbers at face value (and don't double check
all sizes with actual measurements!).

New mantra: Check thrice; order once!

In summary, it seems that one company, Alladin, dominates replacement
o-rings for pools, and that company uses a proprietary (unpublished?)
o-dash numbering system that mimics the standard o-dash numbering system
in both look and feel - yet the two numbering systems are (apparently)
wholly unrelated! (AFAICT)

Given that, I'll need to measure all my old (worn) o-rings, in order
to cross reference to the "real" AS568 o-ring O-dash size.

Serves me right for taking things at face value!

QUESTION:
What's the best tool to *measure* o-rings (enough to match to charts)?
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13295487.jpg


Hmm, I resemble this post... I carefully study
what to buy; then buy the wrong thing!

You could go to a hardware store they probably
have a cross-reference as would an auto parts
store.
--
Tekkie

Oren wrote:
On Tue, 11 Jun 2013 16:27:10 +0000 (UTC), Danny D

wrote:

A funny thing happened when the "carefully chosen"
o-rings arrived.
They are all the wrong size!


LMAO

My wife smiled, gently chiding me, a bit incredulously
...
"After all that work, you ordered the wrong ones?"


Wise man: "Study long, you study wrong"

Yup. Mea culpa. They're *all* the wrong size!
Apparently, I didn't double check the numbers!


A kit would have be ~$25 at a pool store chuckle

This is the post of the year, Danny. Do huckleberries come
to mind?

Careful there Mr O, bobby g is going to take you to task for
not being user friendly.

Btw: huckleberries don't come to mind,but dingleberries
do,g

On Tue, 11 Jun 2013 18:34:25 -0400, Tekkie® wrote:

You could go to a hardware store they probably
have a cross-reference as would an auto parts
store.

After making mistakes, I realize that the typical process
to source the o-dash sizes would be the following 3 steps:

1. Determine the manufacturer's part number:
e.g., Sta-Rite Seal plate housing o-ring, U9-228
(aka U9-228A)

2. Cross reference to the Aladdin o-dash size:
http://www.aladdin1950.com/search.cfm
$9.22 Aladdin 1-O-240 Seal Plate Housing O-Ring

3. Measure & cross reference to AS568 o-dash trade size:
$1.17 AS568 O-449 ACS=275±.000 AID=10±.000 NCS=1/4 NID=10 NOD=10-1/2

Note: To make matters confusing, some web sites cross reference
to the Aladdin o-dash number while others cross reference
to the AS568 o-dash number.

For example, this site cross references U9-228A to an Aladdin O-240:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001F0O6RW
Yet, this site cross references U9-228A to the AS568 O-449:
http://www.inyopools.com/Products/07501352023149.htm

It's easy, once you know not to make any "assumptions"!

On Jun 12, 2:00*am, Danny D wrote:
On Tue, 11 Jun 2013 18:34:25 -0400, Tekkie® wrote:
You could go to a hardware store they probably
have a cross-reference as would an auto parts
store.

After making mistakes, I realize that the typical process
to source the o-dash sizes would be the following 3 steps:

1. Determine the manufacturer's part number:
* *e.g., Sta-Rite Seal plate housing o-ring, U9-228
* *(aka U9-228A)

2. Cross reference to the Aladdin o-dash size:
* *http://www.aladdin1950.com/search.cfm
* *$9.22 Aladdin 1-O-240 Seal Plate Housing O-Ring

3. Measure & cross reference to AS568 o-dash trade size:
* *$1.17 AS568 O-449 ACS=275±.000 AID=10±.000 NCS=1/4 NID=10 NOD=10-1/2

Note: To make matters confusing, some web sites cross reference
* * * to the Aladdin o-dash number while others cross reference
* * * to the AS568 o-dash number.

For example, this site cross references U9-228A to an Aladdin O-240:
*http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001F0O6RW
Yet, this site cross references U9-228A to the AS568 O-449:
*http://www.inyopools.com/Products/07501352023149.htm

It's easy, once you know not to make any "assumptions"!


That process is about as clear as mud. If step 2 is to measure, then
why do you have to cross reference it to anything at all?

My way of looking at this is if you called a pool company to fix
a leaking pump, you might wind up with a new pump:

Cost $275 + $150 labor = $425

or if you're luckier, you might wind up with them replacing the O-ring
Cost $10 + $150 labor = $160

but since I'm doing it myself, the cost will be just $10 -$15 for the
O-ring
from a pool store.


So, even though I'm paying a premium for the O-ring, the cost of the
repar is still so small that it's not worth all the hassle with trying
to
find some cheaper O-rings.

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 07:54:40 -0700, wrote:

So, even though I'm paying a premium for the O-ring, the cost of the
repair is still so small that it's not worth all the hassle with trying
to find some cheaper O-rings.

That's a very boring repair though.

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 17:22:04 +0000 (UTC), Danny D
wrote:

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 07:54:40 -0700, wrote:

So, even though I'm paying a premium for the O-ring, the cost of the
repair is still so small that it's not worth all the hassle with trying
to find some cheaper O-rings.

That's a very boring repair though.

What is boring is waiting for your final leak test.

Whatever you pay local is going to last for years. When you count
beans, are they Mexican Jumping beans?

On Tue, 11 Jun 2013 18:38:25 -0500, "ChairMan"
wrote:

Careful there Mr O, bobby g is going to take you to task for
not being user friendly.

I'll get over it.

I'm prepared to have Windows Narrator read his books to me.

On Tue, 11 Jun 2013 20:12:00 +0000 (UTC), Danny D
wrote:

On Tue, 11 Jun 2013 09:36:10 -0700, Oren wrote:

A kit would have be ~$25 at a pool store chuckle

Well, to be fair, the pump kit doesn't include all the o-rings
(e.g., the GO-KIT38 doesn't have the two drain plug o-rings).

And, the filter kit includes too many o-rings!

Besides, a kit wouldn't be any fun!

Why replace them if they do not leak? Your leaks are the seal, so
replace the O-rings needed.

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 07:54:40 -0700, wrote:

That process is about as clear as mud. If step 2 is to measure, then
why do you have to cross reference it to anything at all?

This is a good point.

The only reason for step 2 was to have the additional information,
since almost all (but not all) pool-oriented o-ring replacement
sites reference the Aladdin O-dash number and not the AS568 O-dash
number.

Remember, the point is to *learn*; it's not to fix the pool pump!
(Fixing the pump is trivial; anyone can do that!)

So, for example, this interesting knowledge would be the result
of the three-step algorithm listed:

Seal Insert O-ring Sta-Rite: U9-376, AS568 O-220, Aladdin O-113
Cross Reference: 5055-06, 351021144, 355051233, STA1018546, U9174, U9376
Nominal Dimensions: CS=1/8" ID=1-3/8" OD=1-5/8"
Actual Dimensions: CS=0.139±.004" ID=1.359±.012"
Price survey:
5¢ each @ http://oringwarehouse.com
6¢ each @ http://theoringstore.com
8¢ each @ http://mfpseals.com/catalog/category...s-backup-rings
70¢ each @ http://www.oringsusa.com/catalog/ind...ath=26_123_104
$4 each @ http://www.inyopools.com/Products/07501352023146.htm

On Tue, 11 Jun 2013 20:12:00 +0000 (UTC), Danny D
wrote:

Well, to be fair, the pump kit doesn't include all the o-rings
(e.g., the GO-KIT38 doesn't have the two drain plug o-rings).


Jump off the porch and try something for the drain plug O-rings.

Replace the old O-ring with faucet stem packing. Couple or less
wraps around the thumb screw, then tighten snug.

http://s19.photobucket.com/user/deansofidaho/media/Machine/Steam/Graphitestring.jpg.html

My solar panels inline pump pipe T-stat had and O-ring go bad and
leak. I used the stem packing to replace the O-ring. The pool guy
was impressed.. never a leak.

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 07:54:40 -0700, wrote:

My way of looking at this is
if you called a pool company ... you might wind up with a new pump
but since I'm doing it myself, the cost will be just $10 -$15
for the O-ring from a pool store.

If the goal were to simply *fix* the pool pump, your method is
perfect and it's what most people do (99.99% anyway).

I'm not most people.
For one thing, I like to *learn* and for another, I like to
*teach*. I am famous (in my profession) for writing tutorials
for how to do things so that everyone else might benefit from
the effort. It's how I'm wired.

Most people are decidedly *not* wired that way!

They do it; they get it done; they learn almost nothing; and
they teach absolutely nothing. But it's done; and it's done
fast (and overall, the cost is the lowest, but so is the
benefit).

I have a friend who knows nothing about cars; yet he fixes
them simply by throwing parts at them. If he gets an OBD
code indicating a misfire, he replaces the plugs. If that
doesn't work, he replaces the wires. If that doesn't work,
he replaces the coils. If that doesn't work, he replaces
the intake pcv valve. If that doesn't work, he replaces the
visible vacuum hoses. If that doesn't work he replaces
the intake boots. etc.

Assuming there are, say, 5 likely culprits, if he guesses
right on the first one, he considers himself an absolute
genius. Even if he guesses wrong until the fifth one, he
not only solves the problem, but he gets all new parts
in the process.

A *lot* of people work that way. They learn almost nothing;
but they get the job done. Fast. It's efficient, I agree.

It's not how *I* do things! I try to understand what I'm
dealing with; I ask questions; I clarify; I summarize; and,
I attempt (yes, attempt) to teach.

In summary, if I use your suggested method for my four
pool pumps, at, say, $5 per o-ring at the pool store, I'd
walk out the door with an outlay of $30 per pump, or, only
$120 for o-rings to refurbish the entire set.

In two hours I'd be done.
I wouldn't learn anything.
I wouldn't teach anyone.
But I'd be done. No doubt about this.
$120 solves my problem (at DIY prices).

On the other hand ...

My method takes WEEKS! (yes, weeks elapsed time).
Yet, I *learned* a lot! Education never stops.

Anyone willing to learn from my experience will learn also.
That's one reason why I go to the effort to include screen shots
and annotated photos in many of my posts. So others learn.

My actual cost outlay is trivial. Assume I pay, on average,
about 50¢ per o-ring (includes shipping), my outlay in cash
is $12 for those four pumps.

In summary:
- ~2 hours, $120, near zero learning, zero teaching
- ~20 hours, $12, lifelong learning, others benefit

Pick the method for how *your* brain is wired.

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 10:40:35 -0700, Oren wrote:

Why replace them if they do not leak?

Hi Oren,

I'm simply past due for basic maintenance (mainly due to my
prior complete ignorance of what o-rings even existed, and
of how to source them).

By way of worst example ...

Here's a picture of the fourth (currently unused) pump seal plate
with the diffuser o-ring pulled off the diffuser:
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13303173.jpg

Here's what I know about that particular o-ring:

Sta-Rite Max-e-glas II pump Diffuser O-ring:
* Sta-Rite PN U9-374, AS568 O-333, Alladin O-83
* Material: Buna-N, 70 Duro, black
* Cross references: 351021164, STA1018557, U9-374, U9374
* Nominal CS=3/16" ID=2-1/2" OD=2-7/8"
* Actual CS=0.210±.005" 2.475±.020"
- 18¢ each @ http://oringwarehouse.com
- 18¢ each @ http://theoringstore.com
- 29¢ each @ http://mfpseals.com/catalog/category...s-backup-rings
- $1.30 each @ http://www.oringsusa.com/catalog/ind...ath=26_123_104
- $4 each @ http://www.inyopools.com/Products/07501352023030.htm

Danny:

Learning is hard because it's frustrating. It's frustrating because you're not aware of all the things you don't yet know that will cause you to make mistakes, LIKE THE FACT that Alladin doesn't use standard AS568B "dash number" sizes. They have part numbers that don't jive with AS568B dash numbers. That's the kind of thing you can trip over the first time you do anything.

There are different ways of measuring O-rings, but for small O-rings most places will use a paper or plastic cone gauge or a digital or dial caliper (as shown in your photo). If you take your O-rings to any place, they'll normally measure them on a cone gauge free of charge. Since the cord diameter of the O-ring affects how far down the O-ring drops down on the cone gauge, it's important to read the correct scale marked on the outside of the cone.



O-rings larger than 8 inches will typically be measured with a "pi gauge" which is a strip of plastic or thin cardboard that's rolled to form a coil. You put the pi gauge inside the O-ring and uncoil it until it's snug inside the ID of the O-ring, and in that way you read off it's ID. I've never used a pi gauge.

There are also tools to measure really large O-rings that work very much like the tools used to measure fan belt sizes:



PS: On that Parker image of the cone and pi gauges, they refer to a standard called ARP568A, whereas the standard used in North America is AS568B. These are the same as ARP568A is simply an older version of AS568B. As manufacturers come out with larger O-rings in different cord diameters, it becomes necessary to update the standard periodically, but the existing sizes always remain the same. So, an ARP568A-449 O-ring will be exactly the same size as an AS568B-449 O-ring, and in all cases, regardless of the character string preceeding the dash, the 449 is referred to as the "dash" number.

You also said that some of your O-rings felt "squishy". In that case, they may be made of foam and not 70 durometer rubber, and in that case, they can only be purchased from the manufacturer as a part.

Your best bet would be to simply take your pump (or your old O-rings) down to any place listed under "Seals" in your Yellow Pages phone directory and let them both measure your old O-rings or the grooves the seat in, and tell you the dash number of each O-ring they can provide.

DIY is always more difficult than just opening your wallet because it involves learning so many different things, and the only way you do learn is when you discover that a mistake has been made. If things work out smoothly, it's only because you've completely mastered the technology, or you got lucky. You don't end up learning anything from the times you get lucky.

On Wednesday, June 12, 2013 11:57:58 AM UTC-6, Danny D wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 07:54:40 -0700, wrote:



My way of looking at this is

if you called a pool company ... you might wind up with a new pump

but since I'm doing it myself, the cost will be just $10 -$15

for the O-ring from a pool store.



If the goal were to simply *fix* the pool pump, your method is

perfect and it's what most people do (99.99% anyway).



I'm not most people.

For one thing, I like to *learn* and for another, I like to

*teach*. I am famous (in my profession) for writing tutorials

for how to do things so that everyone else might benefit from

the effort. It's how I'm wired.



Most people are decidedly *not* wired that way!



They do it; they get it done; they learn almost nothing; and

they teach absolutely nothing. But it's done; and it's done

fast (and overall, the cost is the lowest, but so is the

benefit).



I have a friend who knows nothing about cars; yet he fixes

them simply by throwing parts at them. If he gets an OBD

code indicating a misfire, he replaces the plugs. If that

doesn't work, he replaces the wires. If that doesn't work,

he replaces the coils. If that doesn't work, he replaces

the intake pcv valve. If that doesn't work, he replaces the

visible vacuum hoses. If that doesn't work he replaces

the intake boots. etc.



Assuming there are, say, 5 likely culprits, if he guesses

right on the first one, he considers himself an absolute

genius. Even if he guesses wrong until the fifth one, he

not only solves the problem, but he gets all new parts

in the process.



A *lot* of people work that way. They learn almost nothing;

but they get the job done. Fast. It's efficient, I agree.



It's not how *I* do things! I try to understand what I'm

dealing with; I ask questions; I clarify; I summarize; and,

I attempt (yes, attempt) to teach.



In summary, if I use your suggested method for my four

pool pumps, at, say, $5 per o-ring at the pool store, I'd

walk out the door with an outlay of $30 per pump, or, only

$120 for o-rings to refurbish the entire set.



In two hours I'd be done.

I wouldn't learn anything.

I wouldn't teach anyone.

But I'd be done. No doubt about this.

$120 solves my problem (at DIY prices).



On the other hand ...



My method takes WEEKS! (yes, weeks elapsed time).

Yet, I *learned* a lot! Education never stops.



Anyone willing to learn from my experience will learn also.

That's one reason why I go to the effort to include screen shots

and annotated photos in many of my posts. So others learn.



My actual cost outlay is trivial. Assume I pay, on average,

about 50¢ per o-ring (includes shipping), my outlay in cash

is $12 for those four pumps.



In summary:

- ~2 hours, $120, near zero learning, zero teaching

- ~20 hours, $12, lifelong learning, others benefit



Pick the method for how *your* brain is wired.

18 hours of NO SWIMMING in the pool using your method. Summer could be over
before the pool got fixed.

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 06:00:46 +0000, Danny D wrote:

2. Cross reference to the Aladdin o-dash size:
http://www.aladdin1950.com/search.cfm
$9.22 Aladdin 1-O-240 Seal Plate Housing O-Ring

This also has an "Aladdin" cross reference table:
http://www.aqua-man.com/techdisplay.asp?Ic=T102

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 12:21:00 -0700, Roy wrote:

18 hours of NO SWIMMING in the pool using your method.
Summer could be over before the pool got fixed.

The pumps are working.

The o-ring replacement is merely an overdue maintenance item.

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 10:32:00 -0700, Oren wrote:

What is boring is waiting for your final leak test.

I guess I should take a picture of it not leaking...

The final leak test has long been done.
The o-ring search is merely long-overdue maintenance.

BTW, if you ever need o-rings, I know now, from my
price survey, that these two outfits are exactly
the same price (at usually pennies each):

BEST:
1. http://oringwarehouse.com
2. http://theoringstore.com

And these outfits are ten times more expensive, but,
still at about a dollar or two, the prices are fine:

GOOD:
3. http://mfpseals.com
4. http://www.oringsusa.com
5. http://www.onlineorings.com

These (pool-oriented) guys are 100x more expensive:

WORST:
6. http://www.inyopools.com
7. http://www.hottubworks.com

This simple summary above, I had not known, until someone
(Oren?, krw?) I don't remember who ... suggested we source
o-rings (and bearings) by trade size.

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 10:32:00 -0700, Oren wrote:

Whatever you pay local is going to last for years.

Hi Oren,

That *is* a good point.

In fact, I strive to buy from Barnes & Noble and not Amazon
when I buy books (I buy about one a week on average as I
read voraciously) - simply for that reason.

The local B&N provides a *service* which I don't want to
go away; and, their prices are decent.

However, at $75 a pump seal at Sears, I don't feel it's my
job to keep them in business, when I can buy that very same
seal on the net for $10.

http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13305239.jpg

There's a limit to local patronage.
Would *you* buy a $75 shaft seal if you could get it for $10 online?
(Same brand. US Seal.)

On Wednesday, June 12, 2013 8:14:55 PM UTC-6, Danny D wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 12:21:00 -0700, Roy wrote:



18 hours of NO SWIMMING in the pool using your method.

Summer could be over before the pool got fixed.

The pumps are working.

The o-ring replacement is merely an overdue maintenance item.

Just kidding Danny...glad things worked out for you. Enjoy the summer.

===

On Jun 11, 9:27*am, Danny D wrote:
A funny thing happened when the "carefully chosen" o-rings arrived.
* They are all the wrong size!

My wife smiled, gently chiding me, a bit incredulously ...
* "After all that work, you ordered the wrong ones?"

Yup. Mea culpa. They're *all* the wrong size!
Apparently, I didn't double check the numbers!

It (apparently) turns out that the "O-number" system I've been cross
referencing is a proprietary standard, used *only* by the Alladin company..
*http://www.aladdin1950.com

So, for example, a Sta-Rite pump basket lid O-ring U9-375 cross references
to an Alladin O-12, which is not even close to the AS568 O-Ring size O-12..

An O-12 actually is this (much smaller) AS568 o-ring:
O-12 nominal CS=1/16" ID=3/8" OD=1/2" actual ID=.364±.005" CS=.070±.003"

While, measurements of "my" pump basket lid O-ring show it's closer to:
O-439 nominal CS=1/4" ID=6-1/2" OD=7" actual ID=6.475±.040" CS=.275±.006"

Even I had to laugh at myself, thinking: Here's a classic case of what
happens when you accept the numbers at face value (and don't double check
all sizes with actual measurements!).

New mantra: Check thrice; order once!

In summary, it seems that one company, Alladin, dominates replacement
o-rings for pools, and that company uses a proprietary (unpublished?)
o-dash numbering system that mimics the standard o-dash numbering system
in both look and feel - yet the two numbering systems are (apparently)
wholly unrelated! (AFAICT)

Given that, I'll need to measure all my old (worn) o-rings, in order
to cross reference to the "real" AS568 o-ring O-dash size.

Serves me right for taking things at face value!

QUESTION:
What's the best tool to *measure* o-rings (enough to match to charts)?
*http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13295487.jpg

Did you "study" any of the o-ring references I posted?


Consider going back to work....

in your current "retired" state you might be able to negatively effect
GDP all by yourself.

Have you considered the amount of extra work all your inquires impose
on mfrs, distributors & supply houses?

On Jun 12, 7:54*am, "
wrote:
On Jun 12, 2:00*am, Danny D wrote:









On Tue, 11 Jun 2013 18:34:25 -0400, Tekkie® wrote:
You could go to a hardware store they probably
have a cross-reference as would an auto parts
store.

After making mistakes, I realize that the typical process
to source the o-dash sizes would be the following 3 steps:

1. Determine the manufacturer's part number:
* *e.g., Sta-Rite Seal plate housing o-ring, U9-228
* *(aka U9-228A)

2. Cross reference to the Aladdin o-dash size:
* *http://www.aladdin1950.com/search.cfm
* *$9.22 Aladdin 1-O-240 Seal Plate Housing O-Ring

3. Measure & cross reference to AS568 o-dash trade size:
* *$1.17 AS568 O-449 ACS=275±.000 AID=10±.000 NCS=1/4 NID=10 NOD=10-1/2

Note: To make matters confusing, some web sites cross reference
* * * to the Aladdin o-dash number while others cross reference
* * * to the AS568 o-dash number.

For example, this site cross references U9-228A to an Aladdin O-240:
*http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001F0O6RW
Yet, this site cross references U9-228A to the AS568 O-449:
*http://www.inyopools.com/Products/07501352023149.htm

It's easy, once you know not to make any "assumptions"!


That process is about as clear as mud. *If step 2 is to measure, then
why do you have to cross reference it to anything at all?

My way of looking at this is if you called a pool company to fix
a leaking pump, you might wind up with a new pump:

Cost $275 + $150 labor = $425

or if you're luckier, you might wind up with them replacing the O-ring
Cost $10 + $150 labor = $160

but since I'm doing it myself, the cost will be just $10 -$15 for the
O-ring
from a pool store.

So, even though I'm paying a premium for the O-ring, the cost of the
repar is still so small that it's not worth all the hassle with trying
to
find some cheaper O-rings.

+1

On Jun 12, 10:57*am, Danny D wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 07:54:40 -0700, wrote:
My way of looking at this is
if you called a pool company ... you might wind up with a new pump
but since I'm doing it myself, the cost will be just $10 -$15
for the O-ring from a pool store.

If the goal were to simply *fix* the pool pump, your method is
perfect and it's what most people do (99.99% anyway).

I'm not most people.
For one thing, I like to *learn* and for another, I like to
*teach*. I am famous (in my profession) for writing tutorials
for how to do things so that everyone else might benefit from
the effort. It's how I'm wired.

Most people are decidedly *not* wired that way!

They do it; they get it done; they learn almost nothing; and
they teach absolutely nothing. But it's done; and it's done
fast (and overall, the cost is the lowest, but so is the
benefit).

I have a friend who knows nothing about cars; yet he fixes
them simply by throwing parts at them. If he gets an OBD
code indicating a misfire, he replaces the plugs. If that
doesn't work, he replaces the wires. If that doesn't work,
he replaces the coils. If that doesn't work, he replaces
the intake pcv valve. If that doesn't work, he replaces the
visible vacuum hoses. If that doesn't work he replaces
the intake boots. etc.

Assuming there are, say, 5 likely culprits, if he guesses
right on the first one, he considers himself an absolute
genius. Even if he guesses wrong until the fifth one, he
not only solves the problem, but he gets all new parts
in the process.

A *lot* of people work that way. They learn almost nothing;
but they get the job done. Fast. It's efficient, I agree.

It's not how *I* do things! I try to understand what I'm
dealing with; I ask questions; I clarify; I summarize; and,
I attempt (yes, attempt) to teach.

In summary, if I use your suggested method for my four
pool pumps, at, say, $5 per o-ring at the pool store, I'd
walk out the door with an outlay of $30 per pump, or, only
$120 for o-rings to refurbish the entire set.

In two hours I'd be done.
I wouldn't learn anything.
I wouldn't teach anyone.
But I'd be done. No doubt about this.
$120 solves my problem (at DIY prices).

On the other hand ...

My method takes WEEKS! (yes, weeks elapsed time).
Yet, I *learned* a lot! *Education never stops.

Anyone willing to learn from my experience will learn also.
That's one reason why I go to the effort to include screen shots
and annotated photos in many of my posts. So others learn.

My actual cost outlay is trivial. Assume I pay, on average,
about 50¢ per o-ring (includes shipping), my outlay in cash
is $12 for those four pumps.

In summary:
- ~2 hours, $120, near zero learning, zero teaching
- ~20 hours, $12, lifelong learning, others benefit

Pick the method for how *your* brain is wired.

D-

In the AHR / DIY arena .....you should concentrate on the "learning
part", you're a LONG way from the point of being able to teach.

Well, unless, of course, you're thinking "a good bad example can be
useful for teaching other what not to do"?

On Jun 12, 7:22*pm, Danny D wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 10:32:00 -0700, Oren wrote:
What is boring is waiting for your final leak test.

I guess I should take a picture of it not leaking...

The final leak test has long been done.
The o-ring search is merely long-overdue maintenance.

BTW, if you ever need o-rings, I know now, from my
price survey, that these two outfits are exactly
the same price (at usually pennies each):

BEST:
1.http://oringwarehouse.com
2.http://theoringstore.com

And these outfits are ten times more expensive, but,
still at about a dollar or two, the prices are fine:

GOOD:
3.http://mfpseals.com
4.http://www.oringsusa.com
5.http://www.onlineorings.com

These (pool-oriented) guys are 100x more expensive:

WORST:
6.http://www.inyopools.com
7.http://www.hottubworks.com

This simple summary above, I had not known, until someone
(Oren?, krw?) I don't remember who ... suggested we source
o-rings (and bearings) by trade size.

Did oyu take look at McMaster & Parker?

http://www.manuf-rubber.com/sizing_gauges.html

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 23:06:48 -0700, DD_BobK wrote:

"a good bad example can be
useful for teaching other what not to do"?

I learn more from my mistakes than from my successes.
Others can learn from them as well.

Oren wrote:
On Tue, 11 Jun 2013 18:38:25 -0500, "ChairMan"

wrote:

Careful there Mr O, bobby g is going to take you to task
for
not being user friendly.

I'll get over it.

I'm prepared to have Windows Narrator read his books to
me.

i'll just watch the movie

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 23:09:18 -0700, DD_BobK wrote:

http://www.manuf-rubber.com/sizing_gauges.html

Wow. That's a beautiful tool!
I was unaware of o-ring sizing cones and sliders.

I see Grainger sells them for $80 & $92 respectively.
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/ecatalog/N-1z0dpyt

You can get the cone for half that he
http://www.theoringstore.com/index.p...ct s_id=11510

Likewise he
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Oring-Measur...-/200274143485

A bit cheaper in the Fastenal brand:
https://www.fastenal.com/web/product...o/_/Navigation

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 23:09:18 -0700, DD_BobK wrote:
http://www.manuf-rubber.com/sizing_gauges.html

Thanks for the manuf-rubber reference.
You have a wealth of knowledge & experience.

I checked their prices against that of the rest for all my
o-ring needs, and they do, indeed, consistently come out
in the top category, equal to or slightly above prices of
the first two.

BEST PRICES:
1. http://oringwarehouse.com
2. http://theoringstore.com
3. http://www.manuf-rubber.com

GOOD PRICES:
4. http://mfpseals.com
5. http://www.oringsusa.com
6. http://www.onlineorings.com

WORST PRICES:
7. http://www.inyopools.com
8. http://www.hottubworks.com

On Jun 12, 11:27*pm, Danny D wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 23:06:48 -0700, DD_BobK wrote:
"a good bad example can be
useful for teaching other what not to do"?

I learn more from my mistakes than from my successes.
Others can learn from them as well.


Excellent point but I'm worried that some of your post might be taken
as "best practice" by the unknowing.....

btw your must be brilliant by now think about it.

On Jun 12, 11:50*pm, Danny D wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 23:09:18 -0700, DD_BobK wrote:
http://www.manuf-rubber.com/sizing_gauges.html

Wow. That's a beautiful tool!
I was unaware of o-ring sizing cones and sliders.

I see Grainger sells them for $80 & $92 respectively.
*http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/ecatalog/N-1z0dpyt

You can get the cone for half that he
*http://www.theoringstore.com/index.p...t_info&cPath=3...

Likewise he
*http://www.ebay.com/itm/Oring-Measur...-/200274143485

A bit cheaper in the Fastenal brand:
*https://www.fastenal.com/web/product...merican-packin....

I know where to get them...... if you recall, I was the one who
suggested a gauge?


I was unaware of ____________ fill in the blank with nearly any noun or subject.

btw I have an acceptable o-ring source, o-rings are generally cheap /
reasonable where I buy them.
FInding rock bottom o-ring prices is a waste of my time..... I don't
use them that often & they are NEVER a cost driver.

I think you tend to forget about that whole forest / tree thing & cost
benefit analysis.
Everything (even minutiae) seems to have the same import / priority. :
(

Concentrate on the important stuff not the fly s....
Not the goo in the grout lines.

Go volunteer somewhere......

On Thu, 13 Jun 2013 02:22:34 +0000 (UTC), Danny D
wrote:

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 10:32:00 -0700, Oren wrote:

What is boring is waiting for your final leak test.

I guess I should take a picture of it not leaking...

The final leak test has long been done.

Oh. I must have missed it being posted that the pump leak was fixed,
by replacing the seal, etc...

The o-ring search is merely long-overdue maintenance.

BTW, if you ever need o-rings, I know now, from my
price survey, that these two outfits are exactly
the same price (at usually pennies each):

BEST:
1. http://oringwarehouse.com
2. http://theoringstore.com

And these outfits are ten times more expensive, but,
still at about a dollar or two, the prices are fine:

GOOD:
3. http://mfpseals.com
4. http://www.oringsusa.com
5. http://www.onlineorings.com

These (pool-oriented) guys are 100x more expensive:

WORST:
6. http://www.inyopools.com
7. http://www.hottubworks.com

This simple summary above, I had not known, until someone
(Oren?, krw?) I don't remember who ... suggested we source
o-rings (and bearings) by trade size.

On Thu, 13 Jun 2013 03:08:31 +0000 (UTC), Danny D
wrote:

http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13305239.jpg

There's a limit to local patronage.
Would *you* buy a $75 shaft seal if you could get it for $10 online?
(Same brand. US Seal.)

No. I would also ask the local store if they did price matching. I
paid the same price for a pool pump at the local store as it would
have cost online.

On Thu, 13 Jun 2013 06:50:08 +0000 (UTC), Danny D
wrote:

http://www.manuf-rubber.com/sizing_gauges.html

Wow. That's a beautiful tool!
I was unaware of o-ring sizing cones and sliders.

I worked in a real gas station as a teen. We had a slider tool that
measured ID of V-belts (fans belts). Then select the belt from the
shelf based on size.

The link reminded me of it.

On Thu, 13 Jun 2013 08:27:54 -0700 (PDT), DD_BobK
wrote:

On Jun 12, 11:27*pm, Danny D wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 23:06:48 -0700, DD_BobK wrote:
"a good bad example can be
useful for teaching other what not to do"?

I learn more from my mistakes than from my successes.
Others can learn from them as well.


Excellent point but I'm worried that some of your post might be taken
as "best practice" by the unknowing.....


“We, the unwilling,led by the unknowing,are doing the impossible for
the ungrateful. We have done so much,for so long,with so little,we are
now qualified to do anything with nothing.”

btw your must be brilliant by now think about it.

On Thu, 13 Jun 2013 08:27:54 -0700, DD_BobK wrote:

btw your must be brilliant by now think about it.

If you only knew!

For example, THIS is why my cleaner pump died yesterday!
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13310958.jpg

Even I had to consider myself an idiot for listening to the
pumprepair.com instructions, which called for removing the
stationary V-plate and loosening the capacitor, when neither
of which were actually needed to remove the diffuser.

The problem was that I didn't realize that now-broken yellow
wire would flop about, where it eventually chafed clean through,
apparently with a puff of black smoke coming from somewhere,
perhaps that mongo capacitor?

So, in hindsight, I followed dumb instructions; and, I made
an additional dumb mistake in putting the stuff back that I
didn't actually have to remove in the first place. Sigh.

In addition, the pumprepair.com instructions called for a
silicone lube on the shaft seals, but the "real" answer is
*NEVER* to use that! The real answer is dish detergent (but
the pool stores don't make any money telling you that!):
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13310959.jpg

So many mistakes - some of which were because I followed
(what turns out to be dumb) instructions; yet, the wire
was still my fault for not securing it!

Plus, it turns out you and Oren were right all along about
the unnecessary complications of the junction box on
the ground, with the four fittings. It turns out that all
I *really* needed was a straight-through 1/2" coupling
on the motor itself (which is trivial to remove now).
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13310967.jpg

My bad experience with the 1/2" elbow tainted my decisions;
and, now I rue that I put that silly junction box there every
time I see it. It cost more. It was more work. It's less
water proof. It's in the way. And, it was unnecessary. Sigh.

As you said, I'm (almost) brilliant by now!

On Thu, 13 Jun 2013 10:19:16 -0700, Oren wrote:

We, the unwilling,led by the unknowing,are doing the impossible for
the ungrateful. We have done so much,for so long,with so little,we are
now qualified to do anything with nothing.

So says Winston Oren! (Or is it Oren Churchill?)

PS: How do you like my custom test apparatus?
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13310990.jpg

Notice that this got the motor whirring again, albeit
only temporarily until I made a proper splice.
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13310995.jpg

With all the learning from these mistakes, I'm well on my way
to becoming a home-repair genius!

On Thu, 13 Jun 2013 09:04:38 -0700, Oren wrote:

Oh. I must have missed it being posted that the pump leak
was fixed, by replacing the seal ...

Here is a picture of the pump seal being removed from
the seal plate itself, with a handy dandy "Mark V Pump
Seal Removal Tool":
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13311024.jpg

Yes. For only $19.99 (regularly $28.99) you too can own
your very own "Mark V". Accept no substitutes! Money order
or cash only please!
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13311025.jpg