[Steve B[_13_]]

What spectrum of light is good for a pool table? I have a two socket large
base bulb fixture. I can lower it, and right now, it is 35" up from the
surface of the table. Right now, I am using two 100 watt frosted bulbs.
Smaller halogens just light up two smalls spots. Even the two hundreds of
watts I have now is slightly underlit. I have seen lots of different types
of lights at the store, touting such words as spectrum, and Kelvin, and all
sorts of non-decipherable descriptions.

Is there a light standard to the industry that is used over a pool table?
Something I could go to the borg and ask for?

Steve

[DerbyDad03]

"Steve B" wrote:
What spectrum of light is good for a pool table? I have a two socket large
base bulb fixture. I can lower it, and right now, it is 35" up from the
surface of the table. Right now, I am using two 100 watt frosted bulbs.
Smaller halogens just light up two smalls spots. Even the two hundreds of
watts I have now is slightly underlit. I have seen lots of different types
of lights at the store, touting such words as spectrum, and Kelvin, and all
sorts of non-decipherable descriptions.

Is there a light standard to the industry that is used over a pool table?
Something I could go to the borg and ask for?

Steve

I wouldn't go to the borg, I'd call this company or a similar one...

The Billiard Warehouse 888-809-7665

http://www.billiardwarehouse.com/lighting/index.htm

Most of the pendant lights say that they can handle three150W incandescent
bulbs. Some of the longer ones can hold 400W worth of CFLs.

There no mention of color, but their customer service reps might know.

DAGS "pool table lighting" for other sources

[dadiOH[_3_]]

Steve B wrote:
What spectrum of light is good for a pool table? I have a two socket
large base bulb fixture. I can lower it, and right now, it is 35" up
from the surface of the table. Right now, I am using two 100 watt
frosted bulbs. Smaller halogens just light up two smalls spots. Even
the two hundreds of watts I have now is slightly underlit. I have
seen lots of different types of lights at the store, touting such
words as spectrum, and Kelvin, and all sorts of non-decipherable
descriptions.

No reason to worry about "spectrum" or "Kelvin". Kelvin is just a way of
descriping the color of the light - lower numbers are redder, higher ones
bluer - and spectrum refers to the colors within the light.

Your incandescent lights are around 2800-3000 Kelvin (sunlight is around
5000-5500) and emit all colors. Personally, I like incandescent light for
most artificial lighting; fluorescent gives you more bang for the watt but
it is deficient in red and seems to suck the life out of things.

What you should be interested in is foot candles - how much light is falling
on a square foot - and evenness of coverage. As you have it now, your
fixture is covering the width of the table well but not the length. One way
to solve that is to raise it to about 60"; trouble is, doing that will
decrease the light intensity *on* the table to about 35% of what you have
now. The best fix is probably two fixtures, hung at 35", one each at 24"
from each end of the table. As an alternative to that, get a light made for
a pool table; they have three or four fixtures on a bar - four is better -
to spread the light along the length of the table. They can be pricey but
Wal-Mart has a 3 light one for less than $100.

So your solutions a

1. Raise what you have and use at least 300w bulbs, 500w might be better.

2. Duplicate what you now have with one near each end of the table

3. Get a fixture meant for a pool table.

4. If you are happy with the current light coverage, swap out the 100w bulbs
for 150 or 200w for more light.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 07:42:53 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:




No reason to worry about "spectrum" or "Kelvin". Kelvin is just a way of
descriping the color of the light - lower numbers are redder, higher ones
bluer - and spectrum refers to the colors within the light.

Your incandescent lights are around 2800-3000 Kelvin (sunlight is around
5000-5500) and emit all colors. Personally, I like incandescent light for
most artificial lighting; fluorescent gives you more bang for the watt but
it is deficient in red and seems to suck the life out of things.

What you should be interested in is foot candles - how much light is falling
on a square foot - and evenness of coverage.

I have to disagree. Color can be very important, especially with a
green pool table and colored balls. I'd lean towards a warmer color
though and avoid anything too blue.

Yes, the foot candles is important too, but Steve is more interested
in ambiance and visibility.

[nestork]

Originally Posted by Steve B[_13_]

What spectrum of light is good for a pool table? I have a two socket large
base bulb fixture. I can lower it, and right now, it is 35" up from the
surface of the table. Right now, I am using two 100 watt frosted bulbs.
Smaller halogens just light up two smalls spots. Even the two hundreds of
watts I have now is slightly underlit. I have seen lots of different types
of lights at the store, touting such words as spectrum, and Kelvin, and all
sorts of non-decipherable descriptions.

Is there a light standard to the industry that is used over a pool table?
Something I could go to the borg and ask for?

Steve

Steve:
Compact Fluorescent bulbs produce light differently than incandescent bulbs, and one of the benefits of that difference is that CFL bulbs can be made to simulate virtually any light source. So, when you were buying an incandescent bulb, all you had to decide was wattage. With CFL bulbs, you have to decide on how bright a bulb you want, but you also have to decide on what colour of light you want.

This PDF file:

http://www.takecontrolandsave.coop/d...emperature.pdf

explains it well.

Essentially, the whitest light will have a colour temperature of 5500 degrees Kelvin.

The lower the colour temperature below 5500 deg. Kelvin, the yellower the light will be. For example, CFL bulbs with colour temperatures between 2700 and 3000 deg. K will emit light that is indistinguishable from that of incandescent bulbs.

The higher the colour temperature above 5500 deg. Kelvin, the blue-er the light will be.

The "whitest" light is had with a colour temperature of 5500 deg. Kelvin, but we're used to incandescent bulbs that give more of a yellow colour. So, if I were you, I'd shop around for a couple of 23 watt CFL bulbs with a colour temperature between 4500 and 5500 deg. Kelvin, and use those to illuminate your pool table. That will give you plenty of light in a very white colour that doesn't significantly affect the apparant colour of the balls.

[Steve B[_13_]]

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 07:42:53 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:




No reason to worry about "spectrum" or "Kelvin". Kelvin is just a way of
descriping the color of the light - lower numbers are redder, higher ones
bluer - and spectrum refers to the colors within the light.

Your incandescent lights are around 2800-3000 Kelvin (sunlight is around
5000-5500) and emit all colors. Personally, I like incandescent light for
most artificial lighting; fluorescent gives you more bang for the watt but
it is deficient in red and seems to suck the life out of things.

What you should be interested in is foot candles - how much light is
falling
on a square foot - and evenness of coverage.

I have to disagree. Color can be very important, especially with a
green pool table and colored balls. I'd lean towards a warmer color
though and avoid anything too blue.

Yes, the foot candles is important too, but Steve is more interested
in ambiance and visibility.

I want the right light so that I can make more shots. So far, none of these
are as good as that little 4 halogen light that came from HD, which we took
down. Four of the two pin halogens seemed pretty close. Guess I gotta
experiment, then go looking or build something.

Steve

[DerbyDad03]

"Steve B" wrote:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 07:42:53 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:




No reason to worry about "spectrum" or "Kelvin". Kelvin is just a way of
descriping the color of the light - lower numbers are redder, higher ones
bluer - and spectrum refers to the colors within the light.

Your incandescent lights are around 2800-3000 Kelvin (sunlight is around
5000-5500) and emit all colors. Personally, I like incandescent light for
most artificial lighting; fluorescent gives you more bang for the watt but
it is deficient in red and seems to suck the life out of things.

What you should be interested in is foot candles - how much light is
falling
on a square foot - and evenness of coverage.

I have to disagree. Color can be very important, especially with a
green pool table and colored balls. I'd lean towards a warmer color
though and avoid anything too blue.

Yes, the foot candles is important too, but Steve is more interested
in ambiance and visibility.

I want the right light so that I can make more shots. So far, none of these
are as good as that little 4 halogen light that came from HD, which we took
down. Four of the two pin halogens seemed pretty close. Guess I gotta
experiment, then go looking or build something.

Steve

Why aren't you contacting a billiards lighting supply house like I
suggested in my earlier response?

Seems to me like you are intent on reinventing the wheel. You don't have to
buy from them but you could gather the specs and then take it from there.

[Steve B[_13_]]

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
"Steve B" wrote:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 07:42:53 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:




No reason to worry about "spectrum" or "Kelvin". Kelvin is just a way
of
descriping the color of the light - lower numbers are redder, higher
ones
bluer - and spectrum refers to the colors within the light.

Your incandescent lights are around 2800-3000 Kelvin (sunlight is
around
5000-5500) and emit all colors. Personally, I like incandescent light
for
most artificial lighting; fluorescent gives you more bang for the watt
but
it is deficient in red and seems to suck the life out of things.

What you should be interested in is foot candles - how much light is
falling
on a square foot - and evenness of coverage.

I have to disagree. Color can be very important, especially with a
green pool table and colored balls. I'd lean towards a warmer color
though and avoid anything too blue.

Yes, the foot candles is important too, but Steve is more interested
in ambiance and visibility.

I want the right light so that I can make more shots. So far, none of
these
are as good as that little 4 halogen light that came from HD, which we
took
down. Four of the two pin halogens seemed pretty close. Guess I gotta
experiment, then go looking or build something.

Steve

Why aren't you contacting a billiards lighting supply house like I
suggested in my earlier response?

Seems to me like you are intent on reinventing the wheel. You don't have
to
buy from them but you could gather the specs and then take it from there.

Well, I looked, and everyone is selling pool table lights, not just the
bulbs. Didn't find any articles on the technical aspects of the lighting.

Steve

[DerbyDad03]

On Mar 13, 11:32*am, "Steve B" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

...





"Steve B" wrote:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 07:42:53 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

No reason to worry about "spectrum" or "Kelvin". *Kelvin is just a way
of
descriping the color of the light - lower numbers are redder, higher
ones
bluer - *and spectrum refers to the colors within the light.

Your incandescent lights are around 2800-3000 Kelvin (sunlight is
around
5000-5500) and emit all colors. *Personally, I like incandescent light
for
most artificial lighting; fluorescent gives you more bang for the watt
but
it is deficient in red and seems to suck the life out of things.

What you should be interested in is foot candles - how much light is
falling
on a square foot - and evenness of coverage.

I have to disagree. *Color can be very important, especially with a
green pool table and colored balls. *I'd lean towards a warmer color
though and avoid anything too blue.

Yes, the foot candles is important too, but Steve is more interested
in ambiance and visibility.

I want the right light so that I can make more shots. *So far, none of
these
are as good as that little 4 halogen light that came from HD, which we
took
down. *Four of the two pin halogens seemed pretty close. *Guess I gotta
experiment, then go looking or build something.

Steve

Why aren't you contacting a billiards lighting supply house like I
suggested in my earlier response?

Seems to me like you are intent on reinventing the wheel. You don't have
to
buy from them but you could gather the specs and then take it from there.

Well, I looked, and everyone is selling pool table lights, not just the
bulbs. *Didn't find any articles on the technical aspects of the lighting.

Steve- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Did you try calling any of them? I've often found that the CSR's at
many companies can connect you with people that actually know the
technical details about the products they sell...stuff that isn't
available on their website.

Another option would be to call a upscale billiards hall. Not one like
this...

http://games.multimedia.cx/wp-conten...l-shootout.png

....but maybe one like this...

http://www.billiardshowroom.com/hawl...iardparlor.htm

I'd bet that someone at Hawley's would be willing to discuss lighting
with you. It's the old sales tactic related to "asking for advice".
People like to talk about their passion so if you let them know that
you want to tap into their expertise, the floodgates will usually open
up. The owner's email address is on the website.

[dadiOH[_3_]]

Steve B wrote:

Why aren't you contacting a billiards lighting supply house like I
suggested in my earlier response?

Seems to me like you are intent on reinventing the wheel. You don't
have to
buy from them but you could gather the specs and then take it from
there.

Well, I looked, and everyone is selling pool table lights, not just
the bulbs. Didn't find any articles on the technical aspects of the
lighting.

The technical aspects are that there are multple lights spread out
lengthwise so that the entire table is lit. As I said originally.

Your only alternative (to spread the light evenly) is to raise what you
have.

You can use any bulbs you want


--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

[DerbyDad03]

On Mar 13, 1:35*pm, "dadiOH" wrote:
Steve B wrote:
Why aren't you contacting a billiards lighting supply house like I
suggested in my earlier response?

Seems to me like you are intent on reinventing the wheel. You don't
have to
buy from them but you could gather the specs and then take it from
there.

Well, I looked, and everyone is selling pool table lights, not just
the bulbs. *Didn't find any articles on the technical aspects of the
lighting.

The technical aspects are that there are multple lights spread out
lengthwise so that the entire table is lit. *As I said originally.

Your only alternative (to spread the light evenly) is to raise what you
have.

You can use any bulbs you want

--

dadiOH

"You can use any bulbs you want"

Well, yes, he can use any bulb he wants, including red or green or
multicolored flashing stobes, but using what he "wants" doesn't always
equate to using what's "best".

Of course, no one would go to the extremes I mentioned above, but the
type of light that different bulbs emit can certainly make a
difference in the clarity of the balls, the contrast between the balls
and the table, the contrast between the rails and the pockets, etc.

The optimum balance between all of those items could very well result
in more shots made as well as less eye strain during play.

I seriously doubt that when a championship table is set up for those
TV shows, they hang the lamps at the proper location above the table
and then just go into the janitor's closet and grab any bulbs they
find lying around. I'd be willing to bet that they have done research
and experiments and have come up with a specific type of bulb that
works best.

[dadiOH[_3_]]

DerbyDad03 wrote:

"You can use any bulbs you want"

Well, yes, he can use any bulb he wants, including red or green or
multicolored flashing stobes, but using what he "wants" doesn't always
equate to using what's "best".

Of course, no one would go to the extremes I mentioned above, but the
type of light that different bulbs emit can certainly make a
difference in the clarity of the balls, the contrast between the balls
and the table, the contrast between the rails and the pockets, etc.

What would accomplish these miracles?

The optimum balance between all of those items could very well result
in more shots made as well as less eye strain during play.

I seriously doubt that when a championship table is set up for those
TV shows, they hang the lamps at the proper location above the table
and then just go into the janitor's closet and grab any bulbs they
find lying around. I'd be willing to bet that they have done research
and experiments and have come up with a specific type of bulb that
works best.

There isn't a lot of choice, derbyOH...

incandescent
fluorescent
led
halogen
argon
mercury
sodium
candles
oil

Anything else? I'm betting on incandescent. And about the only choice for
those is wattage and frosted/nonfrosted. True, you can get them with
colored glass but only an idiot would consider them for a pool table.
Unless it was Christmas.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

[dadiOH[_3_]]

DerbyDad03 wrote:
"dadiOH" wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:

"You can use any bulbs you want"

Well, yes, he can use any bulb he wants, including red or green or
multicolored flashing stobes, but using what he "wants" doesn't
always equate to using what's "best".

Of course, no one would go to the extremes I mentioned above, but
the type of light that different bulbs emit can certainly make a
difference in the clarity of the balls, the contrast between the
balls and the table, the contrast between the rails and the
pockets, etc.

What would accomplish these miracles?

The optimum balance between all of those items could very well
result in more shots made as well as less eye strain during play.

I seriously doubt that when a championship table is set up for those
TV shows, they hang the lamps at the proper location above the table
and then just go into the janitor's closet and grab any bulbs they
find lying around. I'd be willing to bet that they have done
research and experiments and have come up with a specific type of
bulb that works best.

There isn't a lot of choice, derbyOH...

incandescent
fluorescent
led
halogen
argon
mercury
sodium
candles
oil

Anything else? I'm betting on incandescent. And about the only
choice for those is wattage and frosted/nonfrosted. True, you can
get them with colored glass but only an idiot would consider them
for a pool table. Unless it was Christmas.

Are you saying that each of the choices listed above wil cast the
same type of light on the pool table and make no visual difference in
the appearance of the table and balls?

No

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

[dadiOH[_3_]]

DerbyDad03 wrote:

I didn't think so. So why are you pushing back on my suggestion that
he contact an "expert" and ask them what they recommend? If different
bulbs will make the table "look" different, why not ask someone who
deals with it every day?

Because it simply isn't rocket science. OP thought his table was
underlighted. The solution is to increase the light. One increases the
light via higher wattage bulbs or by adding fixtures.

Different bulbs won't make the table look different; different light sources
may but that difference will be subtle, his eyes would adapt to it and the
difference would only be from sources he is unlikely to choose with the
exception of flourescent.

As I said, it isn't rocket science so why turn a simple problem/solution
into something complicated? I really don't care if he contacts a whole
*FLOCK* of experts, just seems silly. At some point, people really need to
think for themselves and exercise some common sense.

FWIW, HTH & HAND

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

[DerbyDad03]

"dadiOH" wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:

I didn't think so. So why are you pushing back on my suggestion that
he contact an "expert" and ask them what they recommend? If different
bulbs will make the table "look" different, why not ask someone who
deals with it every day?

Because it simply isn't rocket science. OP thought his table was
underlighted. The solution is to increase the light. One increases the
light via higher wattage bulbs or by adding fixtures.

Different bulbs won't make the table look different; different light sources
may but that difference will be subtle, his eyes would adapt to it and the
difference would only be from sources he is unlikely to choose with the
exception of flourescent.

As I said, it isn't rocket science so why turn a simple problem/solution
into something complicated? I really don't care if he contacts a whole
*FLOCK* of experts, just seems silly. At some point, people really need to
think for themselves and exercise some common sense.

FWIW, HTH & HAND


Did you read Tomsic's response to your post? There's a lot more meat to
that response than simply saying "raise the fixtures and put in any bulb
you want."

I suspect that Steve was looking for the type of details that Tomsic
provided. Not rocket science, illumination science.

[dadiOH[_3_]]

DerbyDad03 wrote:
"dadiOH" wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:

I didn't think so. So why are you pushing back on my suggestion that
he contact an "expert" and ask them what they recommend? If
different bulbs will make the table "look" different, why not ask
someone who deals with it every day?

Because it simply isn't rocket science. OP thought his table was
underlighted. The solution is to increase the light. One increases
the light via higher wattage bulbs or by adding fixtures.

Different bulbs won't make the table look different; different light
sources may but that difference will be subtle, his eyes would adapt
to it and the difference would only be from sources he is unlikely
to choose with the exception of flourescent.

As I said, it isn't rocket science so why turn a simple
problem/solution into something complicated? I really don't care if
he contacts a whole *FLOCK* of experts, just seems silly. At some
point, people really need to think for themselves and exercise some
common sense.

FWIW, HTH & HAND


Did you read Tomsic's response to your post? There's a lot more meat
to that response than simply saying "raise the fixtures and put in
any bulb you want."

Yes, I read it. There was more meat in my *first* response to Steve too.
Including foot candles. I didn't dwell on foot candles because it is
unlikely Steve would have any way of measuring it; the simplest way to
handle it is to simply increase wattage and/or fixtures until the intensity
is satisfactory.

Tomsic's main thrust was "providing a suitable amount and distribution of
light on the table along with good color". Same as my first post.

He suggested a 4' fluorescent. That would give decent coverage; however,
all fluorescents are deficient in red; that might or might not bother Steve.
It would bother me.

If Steve is not inclined to buy another fixture(s), raising his current one
will increase the coverage; it will also diminish the light intensity at the
table surface; ergo, increase wattage. An option I suggested originally.

I suspect that Steve was looking for the type of details that Tomsic
provided. Not rocket science, illumination science.

So you think a salesman or CS rep at a billiard store is going to be versed
in the physics of light? hehehe

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

[DerbyDad03]

"dadiOH" wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
"dadiOH" wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:

I didn't think so. So why are you pushing back on my suggestion that
he contact an "expert" and ask them what they recommend? If
different bulbs will make the table "look" different, why not ask
someone who deals with it every day?

Because it simply isn't rocket science. OP thought his table was
underlighted. The solution is to increase the light. One increases
the light via higher wattage bulbs or by adding fixtures.

Different bulbs won't make the table look different; different light
sources may but that difference will be subtle, his eyes would adapt
to it and the difference would only be from sources he is unlikely
to choose with the exception of flourescent.

As I said, it isn't rocket science so why turn a simple
problem/solution into something complicated? I really don't care if
he contacts a whole *FLOCK* of experts, just seems silly. At some
point, people really need to think for themselves and exercise some
common sense.

FWIW, HTH & HAND


Did you read Tomsic's response to your post? There's a lot more meat
to that response than simply saying "raise the fixtures and put in
any bulb you want."

Yes, I read it. There was more meat in my *first* response to Steve too.
Including foot candles. I didn't dwell on foot candles because it is
unlikely Steve would have any way of measuring it; the simplest way to
handle it is to simply increase wattage and/or fixtures until the intensity
is satisfactory.

Tomsic's main thrust was "providing a suitable amount and distribution of
light on the table along with good color". Same as my first post.

He suggested a 4' fluorescent. That would give decent coverage; however,
all fluorescents are deficient in red; that might or might not bother Steve.
It would bother me.

If Steve is not inclined to buy another fixture(s), raising his current one
will increase the coverage; it will also diminish the light intensity at the
table surface; ergo, increase wattage. An option I suggested originally.

I suspect that Steve was looking for the type of details that Tomsic
provided. Not rocket science, illumination science.

So you think a salesman or CS rep at a billiard store is going to be versed
in the physics of light? hehehe


As long as we're bringing up past posts, early on I replied to Steve:

"I've often found that the CSR's at many companies can connect you with
people that actually know the technical details about the products they
sell...stuff that isn't available on their website."

Let's drop it, OK? You've made your point.

[dadiOH[_3_]]

DerbyDad03 wrote:

Let's drop it, OK?

Works for me.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net