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#1
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What to do about drywall seams cracking ...AGAIN!
how to repaire [and prevent future cracking] WITHOUT adding a big LUMP
to the seam? The wall run is around 60 feet and 10 feet tall. the junction right in the middle is wanting to crack. Trying to keep from forming lumps on the wall, I cut down, used paper tape with a layer of mud under and a layer on top. [Many may remember the problems I had posted earlier. I tried to wet the tape first thinking of wall paper and how that shrinks to fit, but wetting CAUSED the paper to 'slide' as it dried and thus a crack, so in response I took all that out and did it again with dry paper tape, which did work better. Only had the tiniest of hairline crack form all summer long only about four feet of run on the wall only.] Well this winter as we isolated that section of the house - meaning cooler temperatures and probably contracting drywall sheets, the crack(s) opened up with a vengence! I mean over 3 mil separation!, but worse the crack is the full floor to ceiling AND even now goes up along a ceiling section which I never had trouble with before. I suspect in the heat of the summer the crack will close back up, too. Yes, I know houses change shape with time, but this seems too much to be caused by 'settling'. My conjecture is is that this is more caused by 'flexing'. Oh yeah, the seams are ON a stud(s), so there should be no reason for movement there. So, my question is How do you repair/prevent cracking at drywall seams WITHOUT creating a huge lump on the surface? I already have built up 1/8 inch thick to ++ on these stupid seams. |
#2
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What to do about drywall seams cracking ...AGAIN!
On 1/6/2013 9:37 AM, Robert Macy wrote:
how to repaire [and prevent future cracking] WITHOUT adding a big LUMP to the seam? The wall run is around 60 feet and 10 feet tall. the junction right in the middle is wanting to crack. Trying to keep from forming lumps on the wall, I cut down, used paper tape with a layer of mud under and a layer on top. [Many may remember the problems I had posted earlier. I tried to wet the tape first thinking of wall paper and how that shrinks to fit, but wetting CAUSED the paper to 'slide' as it dried and thus a crack, so in response I took all that out and did it again with dry paper tape, which did work better. Only had the tiniest of hairline crack form all summer long only about four feet of run on the wall only.] Well this winter as we isolated that section of the house - meaning cooler temperatures and probably contracting drywall sheets, the crack(s) opened up with a vengence! I mean over 3 mil separation!, but worse the crack is the full floor to ceiling AND even now goes up along a ceiling section which I never had trouble with before. I suspect in the heat of the summer the crack will close back up, too. Yes, I know houses change shape with time, but this seems too much to be caused by 'settling'. My conjecture is is that this is more caused by 'flexing'. Oh yeah, the seams are ON a stud(s), so there should be no reason for movement there. So, my question is How do you repair/prevent cracking at drywall seams WITHOUT creating a huge lump on the surface? I already have built up 1/8 inch thick to ++ on these stupid seams. I've used fiber glass tape, looks like screen, on cracks around door frames that kept coming back. OK today. |
#3
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What to do about drywall seams cracking ...AGAIN!
On Jan 6, 9:37*am, Robert Macy wrote:
how to repaire [and prevent future cracking] WITHOUT adding a big LUMP to the seam? The wall run is around 60 feet and 10 feet tall. the junction right in the middle is wanting to crack. Trying to keep from forming lumps on the wall, I cut down, used paper tape with a layer of mud under and a layer on top. [Many may remember the problems I had posted earlier. I tried to wet the tape first thinking of wall paper and how that shrinks to fit, but wetting CAUSED the paper to 'slide' as it dried and thus a crack, so in response I took all that out and did it again with dry paper tape, which did work better. Only had the tiniest of hairline crack form all summer long only about four feet of run on the wall only.] Well this winter as we isolated that section of the house - meaning cooler temperatures and probably contracting drywall sheets, the crack(s) opened up with a vengence! I mean over 3 mil separation!, but worse the crack is the full floor to ceiling AND even now goes up along a ceiling section which I never had trouble with before. I suspect in the heat of the summer the crack will close back up, too. Yes, I know houses change shape with time, but this seems too much to be caused by 'settling'. My conjecture is is that this is more caused by 'flexing'. Oh yeah, the seams are ON a stud(s), so there should be no reason for movement there. So, my question is How do you repair/prevent cracking at drywall seams WITHOUT creating a huge lump on the surface? I already have built up 1/8 inch thick to ++ on these stupid seams. I don't think the thickness is going to do much. There isn't much tensile strength to drywall compound. If the drywall moves, it's going to crack. And it sounds like the movement is related to temperature and possibly humidity changes. You say the room is "isolated". What does that mean and how cold does it get? For small cracks that are persistent in 90deg corners or similar, I've used a flexible caulk type filler. don't know how practical that would be for a long, mid-wall joint though. But |
#4
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What to do about drywall seams cracking ...AGAIN!
clipped
So, my question is How do you repair/prevent cracking at drywall seams WITHOUT creating a huge lump on the surface? I already have built up 1/8 inch thick to ++ on these stupid seams. My simple solution to fine cracks, when I paint, is to push some paintable, flexible caulk into the crack. Usually a problem at corners. |
#5
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What to do about drywall seams cracking ...AGAIN!
On Sunday 06 January 2013 14:42 Frank wrote in alt.home.repair:
On 1/6/2013 9:37 AM, Robert Macy wrote: how to repaire [and prevent future cracking] WITHOUT adding a big LUMP to the seam? The wall run is around 60 feet and 10 feet tall. the junction right in the middle is wanting to crack. Trying to keep from forming lumps on the wall, I cut down, used paper tape with a layer of mud under and a layer on top. [Many may remember the problems I had posted earlier. I tried to wet the tape first thinking of wall paper and how that shrinks to fit, but wetting CAUSED the paper to 'slide' as it dried and thus a crack, so in response I took all that out and did it again with dry paper tape, which did work better. Only had the tiniest of hairline crack form all summer long only about four feet of run on the wall only.] Well this winter as we isolated that section of the house - meaning cooler temperatures and probably contracting drywall sheets, the crack(s) opened up with a vengence! I mean over 3 mil separation!, but worse the crack is the full floor to ceiling AND even now goes up along a ceiling section which I never had trouble with before. I suspect in the heat of the summer the crack will close back up, too. Yes, I know houses change shape with time, but this seems too much to be caused by 'settling'. My conjecture is is that this is more caused by 'flexing'. Oh yeah, the seams are ON a stud(s), so there should be no reason for movement there. So, my question is How do you repair/prevent cracking at drywall seams WITHOUT creating a huge lump on the surface? I already have built up 1/8 inch thick to ++ on these stupid seams. I've used fiber glass tape, looks like screen, on cracks around door frames that kept coming back. OK today. +1 This is the only "proper" way to do drywall joints. The tape spreads the strain over enough area that the plaster/filler on top can tolerate it without cracking. The only time I've seen paper tape in use was to joint drywall that was painted direct without even as much as filling the joints - eg a crap bodge (cheap 1980's apartment builders in south London). Noone who is sane and/or not cheap would do it like that now. -- Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/ "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." |
#6
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What to do about drywall seams cracking ...AGAIN!
On Jan 6, 8:37*am, Robert Macy wrote:
how to repaire [and prevent future cracking] WITHOUT adding a big LUMP to the seam? The wall run is around 60 feet and 10 feet tall. the junction right in the middle is wanting to crack. Trying to keep from forming lumps on the wall, I cut down, used paper tape with a layer of mud under and a layer on top. [Many may remember the problems I had posted earlier. I tried to wet the tape first thinking of wall paper and how that shrinks to fit, but wetting CAUSED the paper to 'slide' as it dried and thus a crack, so in response I took all that out and did it again with dry paper tape, which did work better. Only had the tiniest of hairline crack form all summer long only about four feet of run on the wall only.] Well this winter as we isolated that section of the house - meaning cooler temperatures and probably contracting drywall sheets, the crack(s) opened up with a vengence! I mean over 3 mil separation!, but worse the crack is the full floor to ceiling AND even now goes up along a ceiling section which I never had trouble with before. I suspect in the heat of the summer the crack will close back up, too. Yes, I know houses change shape with time, but this seems too much to be caused by 'settling'. My conjecture is is that this is more caused by 'flexing'. Oh yeah, the seams are ON a stud(s), so there should be no reason for movement there. So, my question is How do you repair/prevent cracking at drywall seams WITHOUT creating a huge lump on the surface? I already have built up 1/8 inch thick to ++ on these stupid seams. You mean the wall is 60 feet long and 10 feet high, and there is a vertical crack somewhere toward the middle of the 60 feet??? That long a solid wall, without any expansion provisions is asking for cracking if it experiences a full range of temperatures and humidity. Is this an interior wall, surrounded by interior spaces on all four sides, front and back and two ends, or is one side or one end an exterior facing wall? What do you mean by isolated, isolated from what??? A better description of the entire situation would allow folks to give you a more meaningful and workable solution. |
#7
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What to do about drywall seams cracking ...AGAIN!
On Jan 6, 6:44*am, "
wrote: On Jan 6, 9:37*am, Robert Macy wrote: how to repaire [and prevent future cracking] WITHOUT adding a big LUMP to the seam? The wall run is around 60 feet and 10 feet tall. the junction right in the middle is wanting to crack. Trying to keep from forming lumps on the wall, I cut down, used paper tape with a layer of mud under and a layer on top. [Many may remember the problems I had posted earlier. I tried to wet the tape first thinking of wall paper and how that shrinks to fit, but wetting CAUSED the paper to 'slide' as it dried and thus a crack, so in response I took all that out and did it again with dry paper tape, which did work better. Only had the tiniest of hairline crack form all summer long only about four feet of run on the wall only.] Well this winter as we isolated that section of the house - meaning cooler temperatures and probably contracting drywall sheets, the crack(s) opened up with a vengence! I mean over 3 mil separation!, but worse the crack is the full floor to ceiling AND even now goes up along a ceiling section which I never had trouble with before. I suspect in the heat of the summer the crack will close back up, too. Yes, I know houses change shape with time, but this seems too much to be caused by 'settling'. My conjecture is is that this is more caused by 'flexing'. Oh yeah, the seams are ON a stud(s), so there should be no reason for movement there. So, my question is How do you repair/prevent cracking at drywall seams WITHOUT creating a huge lump on the surface? I already have built up 1/8 inch thick to ++ on these stupid seams. I don't think the thickness is going to do much. *There isn't much tensile strength to drywall compound. *If the drywall moves, it's going to crack. *And it sounds like the movement is related to temperature and possibly humidity changes. * You say the room is "isolated". *What does that mean and how cold does it get? *For small cracks that are persistent in 90deg corners or similar, I've used a flexible caulk type filler. *don't know how practical that would be for a long, mid-wall joint though. But Drywall "moves" more than steel but less than aluminum based on temperature changes. It it also wants to move quite a bit based on relative humidity.... Thermal Coefficient of Expansion: Unrestrained: 40-100 °F (4-38 °C): 9.0 x 10–6 in./in./°F Hygrometric Coefficient of Expansion: Unrestrained: 5-90% r.h. 7.2 x 10–6 in./in./% r.h. So keeping the the drywall within a narrow range of both temp & RH will minimize the tendency for the crack to open & close. As T4 mentions, thinkness of the "patch"/ coverage wont help much. With finishes... if brittle, they will crack with movement. So there needs to be minimal movement OR the materials need to accomodate movement. Flexible caulk is an option that I use at corner joints, I've also used it with success on narrow (less than 1/16") field cracks in plaster. You might consider cutting the corner tape & using caulk in the corners. A 60' wall is quite long and suffers a huge amount of dimensional change with temp or RH... if all the movement is forced to be accomodated at single line....you'll get a wide crack. You mention 3 mil...did oyu mean 3mm or .003"? ..003 " can easily be fixed with flex caulk 3mm (.125") is huge cheers Bob |
#8
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What to do about drywall seams cracking ...AGAIN!
On Sunday, January 6, 2013 6:37:00 AM UTC-8, Robert Macy wrote:
how to repaire [and prevent future cracking] WITHOUT adding a big LUMP to the seam? The wall run is around 60 feet and 10 feet tall. the junction right in the middle is wanting to crack. Trying to keep from forming lumps on the wall, I cut down, used paper tape with a layer of mud under and a layer on top. [Many may remember the problems I had posted earlier. I tried to wet the tape first thinking of wall paper and how that shrinks to fit, but wetting CAUSED the paper to 'slide' as it dried and thus a crack, so in response I took all that out and did it again with dry paper tape, which did work better. Only had the tiniest of hairline crack form all summer long only about four feet of run on the wall only.] Well this winter as we isolated that section of the house - meaning cooler temperatures and probably contracting drywall sheets, the crack(s) opened up with a vengence! I mean over 3 mil separation!, but worse the crack is the full floor to ceiling AND even now goes up along a ceiling section which I never had trouble with before. I suspect in the heat of the summer the crack will close back up, too. Yes, I know houses change shape with time, but this seems too much to be caused by 'settling'. My conjecture is is that this is more caused by 'flexing'. Oh yeah, the seams are ON a stud(s), so there should be no reason for movement there. So, my question is How do you repair/prevent cracking at drywall seams WITHOUT creating a huge lump on the surface? I already have built up 1/8 inch thick to ++ on these stupid seams. I don’t know if this relates to your problem but I’ve been inside thousands of houses and all the ones I’ve seen that were over a slope or hill have constant movement going on all the time; some very little and others a lot but all were sliding. |
#9
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What to do about drywall seams cracking ...AGAIN!
On 1/6/2013 12:08 PM, Tim Watts wrote:
I've used fiber glass tape, looks like screen, on cracks around door frames that kept coming back. OK today. +1 This is the only "proper" way to do drywall joints. The tape spreads the strain over enough area that the plaster/filler on top can tolerate it without cracking. Bedded paper tape is the classic and standard way of finishing drywall seams. The tape does the job you described. http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/how-...410343,00.html The only time I've seen paper tape in use was to joint drywall that was painted direct without even as much as filling the joints - eg a crap bodge (cheap 1980's apartment builders in south London). Noone who is sane and/or not cheap would do it like that now. |
#10
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What to do about drywall seams cracking ...AGAIN!
On Jan 6, 12:08*pm, Tim Watts wrote:
On Sunday 06 January 2013 14:42 Frank wrote in alt.home.repair: On 1/6/2013 9:37 AM, Robert Macy wrote: how to repaire [and prevent future cracking] WITHOUT adding a big LUMP to the seam? The wall run is around 60 feet and 10 feet tall. the junction right in the middle is wanting to crack. Trying to keep from forming lumps on the wall, I cut down, used paper tape with a layer of mud under and a layer on top. [Many may remember the problems I had posted earlier. I tried to wet the tape first thinking of wall paper and how that shrinks to fit, but wetting CAUSED the paper to 'slide' as it dried and thus a crack, so in response I took all that out and did it again with dry paper tape, which did work better. Only had the tiniest of hairline crack form all summer long only about four feet of run on the wall only.] Well this winter as we isolated that section of the house - meaning cooler temperatures and probably contracting drywall sheets, the crack(s) opened up with a vengence! I mean over 3 mil separation!, but worse the crack is the full floor to ceiling AND even now goes up along a ceiling section which I never had trouble with before. I suspect in the heat of the summer the crack will close back up, too. Yes, I know houses change shape with time, but this seems too much to be caused by 'settling'. My conjecture is is that this is more caused by 'flexing'. Oh yeah, the seams are ON a stud(s), so there should be no reason for movement there. So, my question is How do you repair/prevent cracking at drywall seams WITHOUT creating a huge lump on the surface? I already have built up 1/8 inch thick to ++ on these stupid seams. I've used fiber glass tape, looks like screen, on cracks around door frames that kept coming back. *OK today. +1 This is the only "proper" way to do drywall joints. The tape spreads the strain over enough area that the plaster/filler on top can tolerate it without cracking. The only time I've seen paper tape in use was to joint drywall that was painted direct without even as much as filling the joints - eg a crap bodge (cheap 1980's apartment builders in south London). Noone who is sane and/or not cheap would do it like that now. -- Tim Watts * * * * * * * * Personal Blog:http://www.dionic..net/tim/ "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Paper tape is widely used in the USA for drywall in both new construction and repairs. Here in the NYC area it is used almost exclusively in new construction. I can't recall seeing the fiberglass tape stuff used by pros doing construction. So, it seems to work very well overall. I've used both tape and the fiberglass tape. I think the tape is easier to use and agree i may give some additional benefit from cracking. It's worth a try. But it's kind of hard to imagine that the tape is going to make a thin layer of mud strong enough to keep two sheets of drywall that are moving from cracking it. To me it seems like expecting a very thin layer of concrete to have significant tensile strength and keep two sections of concrete from seperating because you add some reinforcing mesh to it. |
#11
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What to do about drywall seams cracking ...AGAIN!
On 1/6/2013 8:37 AM, Robert Macy wrote:
how to repaire [and prevent future cracking] WITHOUT adding a big LUMP to the seam? The wall run is around 60 feet and 10 feet tall. the junction right in the middle is wanting to crack. Trying to keep from forming lumps on the wall, I cut down, used paper tape with a layer of mud under and a layer on top. [Many may remember the problems I had posted earlier. I tried to wet the tape first thinking of wall paper and how that shrinks to fit, but wetting CAUSED the paper to 'slide' as it dried and thus a crack, so in response I took all that out and did it again with dry paper tape, which did work better. Only had the tiniest of hairline crack form all summer long only about four feet of run on the wall only.] Well this winter as we isolated that section of the house - meaning cooler temperatures and probably contracting drywall sheets, the crack(s) opened up with a vengence! I mean over 3 mil separation!, but worse the crack is the full floor to ceiling AND even now goes up along a ceiling section which I never had trouble with before. I suspect in the heat of the summer the crack will close back up, too. Yes, I know houses change shape with time, but this seems too much to be caused by 'settling'. My conjecture is is that this is more caused by 'flexing'. Oh yeah, the seams are ON a stud(s), so there should be no reason for movement there. So, my question is How do you repair/prevent cracking at drywall seams WITHOUT creating a huge lump on the surface? I already have built up 1/8 inch thick to ++ on these stupid seams. It sure seems like a lot of your posts indicate pretty marginal understanding of construction. No one would expect a 60' wall to not have any relief. Here is a link to the USG Gypsum Construction Hand Book - pretty much a bible for the drywall, plaster, and acoustic trades. http://www.usg.com/resource-center/g...handbook.html# Your current question is covered in Chapter 15 -Building Sciences. The bottom line is that drywall should never exceed 30' without some type of relief. Your best solution would be to install one or more expansion joints in the wall. I prefer using Trim Tex parts, here is a link showing you how they should be installed: http://www.trim-tex.com/installation-sheets.html Go down to the one entitled Hide away expansion bead This will be a nasty remodel to get the extra stud installed in the wall, but will be the best long term solution. I suspect that you have a wall or something on the opposite side of the crack that is pushing or pulling the wall at this point. and may even involve interior and exterior conditions. If it is fracturing the tape joint at the ceiling and mid wall, there is plenty of movement going on. One stop gap approach that may last longer than what you've been doing would be to remove all tape and mudding and replace with thermal setting type compound and mesh tape. Hope this helps you some. -- ___________________________________ Keep the whole world singing . . . Dan G remove the seven |
#12
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What to do about drywall seams cracking ...AGAIN!
On 1/6/2013 11:08 AM, Tim Watts wrote:
On Sunday 06 January 2013 14:42 Frank wrote in alt.home.repair: On 1/6/2013 9:37 AM, Robert Macy wrote: how to repaire [and prevent future cracking] WITHOUT adding a big LUMP to the seam? The wall run is around 60 feet and 10 feet tall. the junction right in the middle is wanting to crack. Trying to keep from forming lumps on the wall, I cut down, used paper tape with a layer of mud under and a layer on top. [Many may remember the problems I had posted earlier. I tried to wet the tape first thinking of wall paper and how that shrinks to fit, but wetting CAUSED the paper to 'slide' as it dried and thus a crack, so in response I took all that out and did it again with dry paper tape, which did work better. Only had the tiniest of hairline crack form all summer long only about four feet of run on the wall only.] Well this winter as we isolated that section of the house - meaning cooler temperatures and probably contracting drywall sheets, the crack(s) opened up with a vengence! I mean over 3 mil separation!, but worse the crack is the full floor to ceiling AND even now goes up along a ceiling section which I never had trouble with before. I suspect in the heat of the summer the crack will close back up, too. Yes, I know houses change shape with time, but this seems too much to be caused by 'settling'. My conjecture is is that this is more caused by 'flexing'. Oh yeah, the seams are ON a stud(s), so there should be no reason for movement there. So, my question is How do you repair/prevent cracking at drywall seams WITHOUT creating a huge lump on the surface? I already have built up 1/8 inch thick to ++ on these stupid seams. I've used fiber glass tape, looks like screen, on cracks around door frames that kept coming back. OK today. +1 This is the only "proper" way to do drywall joints. The tape spreads the strain over enough area that the plaster/filler on top can tolerate it without cracking. The only time I've seen paper tape in use was to joint drywall that was painted direct without even as much as filling the joints - eg a crap bodge (cheap 1980's apartment builders in south London). Noone who is sane and/or not cheap would do it like that now. Paper tape is the normal and usual material to use. The nylon mesh tape can be used on tapered joints, but no tapers I know would use it on butt joints or corners and so, most just use all paper usually installed with a "banjo". -- ___________________________________ Keep the whole world singing . . . Dan G remove the seven |
#13
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What to do about drywall seams cracking ...AGAIN!
Robert Macy wrote:
how to repaire [and prevent future cracking] WITHOUT adding a big LUMP to the seam? The wall run is around 60 feet and 10 feet tall. the junction right in the middle is wanting to crack. Trying to keep from forming lumps on the wall, I cut down, used paper tape with a layer of mud under and a layer on top. [Many may remember the problems I had posted earlier. I tried to wet the tape first thinking of wall paper and how that shrinks to fit, but wetting CAUSED the paper to 'slide' as it dried and thus a crack, so in response I took all that out and did it again with dry paper tape, which did work better. Only had the tiniest of hairline crack form all summer long only about four feet of run on the wall only.] Well this winter as we isolated that section of the house - meaning cooler temperatures and probably contracting drywall sheets, the crack(s) opened up with a vengence! I mean over 3 mil separation!, but worse the crack is the full floor to ceiling AND even now goes up along a ceiling section which I never had trouble with before. I suspect in the heat of the summer the crack will close back up, too. Yes, I know houses change shape with time, but this seems too much to be caused by 'settling'. My conjecture is is that this is more caused by 'flexing'. Oh yeah, the seams are ON a stud(s), so there should be no reason for movement there. So, my question is How do you repair/prevent cracking at drywall seams WITHOUT creating a huge lump on the surface? I already have built up 1/8 inch thick to ++ on these stupid seams. That is *WAYYYY* too thick! On butt joints at least. Step #1 is to make sure the joints are securely fastened. If they aren't, the joints will crack. One way to tell is to put your finger lightly on the joint and have someone else thump the wall lightly with their fist a foot or so away. Can you feel movement with your finger? (Note: you can't do your own thumping). Step #2 is to bed paper tape. Use only enough mud and width to bed and slightly cover the tape. Step #3 - after #2 is dry - is to sand as needed and apply more mud using a wider knife. You aren't trying to cover the tape with this, you are filling the gap along the edges of the tape created by the taped area being thicker. Step #4 is to repeat #3 but with a still wider knife. By the time you work up to a 10" knife the tape hump will be pretty much invisible even if it was on butts, not tapered edges. You mentioned that the cracks were over 3 mils. A human hair is about 3 mils so your cracks don't sound like a disaster. If the sheets are well fastened, rubbing some acrylic caulk into them before painting as Norminn suggested (she's a sharp cookie will fix them nicely. -- dadiOH ____________________________ Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race? Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net |
#14
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What to do about drywall seams cracking ...AGAIN!
On Sun, 06 Jan 2013 17:08:03 +0000, Tim Watts
wrote: On Sunday 06 January 2013 14:42 Frank wrote in alt.home.repair: On 1/6/2013 9:37 AM, Robert Macy wrote: how to repaire [and prevent future cracking] WITHOUT adding a big LUMP to the seam? The wall run is around 60 feet and 10 feet tall. the junction right in the middle is wanting to crack. Trying to keep from forming lumps on the wall, I cut down, used paper tape with a layer of mud under and a layer on top. [Many may remember the problems I had posted earlier. I tried to wet the tape first thinking of wall paper and how that shrinks to fit, but wetting CAUSED the paper to 'slide' as it dried and thus a crack, so in response I took all that out and did it again with dry paper tape, which did work better. Only had the tiniest of hairline crack form all summer long only about four feet of run on the wall only.] Well this winter as we isolated that section of the house - meaning cooler temperatures and probably contracting drywall sheets, the crack(s) opened up with a vengence! I mean over 3 mil separation!, but worse the crack is the full floor to ceiling AND even now goes up along a ceiling section which I never had trouble with before. I suspect in the heat of the summer the crack will close back up, too. Yes, I know houses change shape with time, but this seems too much to be caused by 'settling'. My conjecture is is that this is more caused by 'flexing'. Oh yeah, the seams are ON a stud(s), so there should be no reason for movement there. So, my question is How do you repair/prevent cracking at drywall seams WITHOUT creating a huge lump on the surface? I already have built up 1/8 inch thick to ++ on these stupid seams. I've used fiber glass tape, looks like screen, on cracks around door frames that kept coming back. OK today. +1 This is the only "proper" way to do drywall joints. The tape spreads the strain over enough area that the plaster/filler on top can tolerate it without cracking. Here in north america paper tape is the norm - the drywall is paper faced with a tapered edge - the joint is mudded, the paper tape embedded, and the surface leveled with mud. Perhaps using a "curing" compound instead of a "drying" compound would make a difference??.(Also called "Hot mud" or "quick set" or "setting type") - has a number as part of the name - like "sheetrock 45" or "durabond 90" It is higher strength.. The normal stuff is awfull to sand - but there are now easy-sand versions. I would not use the setting type for fine finishing. The only time I've seen paper tape in use was to joint drywall that was painted direct without even as much as filling the joints - eg a crap bodge (cheap 1980's apartment builders in south London). Noone who is sane and/or not cheap would do it like that now. |
#15
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What to do about drywall seams cracking ...AGAIN!
On Jan 6, 1:15*pm, DanG wrote:
On 1/6/2013 8:37 AM, Robert Macy wrote: how to repaire [and prevent future cracking] WITHOUT adding a big LUMP to the seam? The wall run is around 60 feet and 10 feet tall. the junction right in the middle is wanting to crack. Trying to keep from forming lumps on the wall, I cut down, used paper tape with a layer of mud under and a layer on top. [Many may remember the problems I had posted earlier. I tried to wet the tape first thinking of wall paper and how that shrinks to fit, but wetting CAUSED the paper to 'slide' as it dried and thus a crack, so in response I took all that out and did it again with dry paper tape, which did work better. Only had the tiniest of hairline crack form all summer long only about four feet of run on the wall only.] Well this winter as we isolated that section of the house - meaning cooler temperatures and probably contracting drywall sheets, the crack(s) opened up with a vengence! I mean over 3 mil separation!, but worse the crack is the full floor to ceiling AND even now goes up along a ceiling section which I never had trouble with before. I suspect in the heat of the summer the crack will close back up, too. Yes, I know houses change shape with time, but this seems too much to be caused by 'settling'. My conjecture is is that this is more caused by 'flexing'. Oh yeah, the seams are ON a stud(s), so there should be no reason for movement there. So, my question is How do you repair/prevent cracking at drywall seams WITHOUT creating a huge lump on the surface? I already have built up 1/8 inch thick to ++ on these stupid seams. It sure seems like a lot of your posts indicate *pretty marginal understanding of construction. No one would expect a 60' wall to not have any relief. Here is a link to the USG Gypsum Construction Hand Book - pretty much a bible for the drywall, plaster, and acoustic trades.http://www.usg.com/resource-center/g...handbook.html# Your current question is covered in Chapter 15 -Building Sciences. *The bottom line is that drywall should never exceed 30' without some type of relief. *Your best solution would be to install one or more expansion joints in the wall. *I prefer using Trim Tex parts, here is a link showing you how they should be installed:http://www.trim-tex.com/installation-sheets.html Go down to the one entitled Hide away expansion bead This will be a nasty remodel to get the extra stud installed in the wall, but will be the best long term solution. *I suspect that you have a wall or something on the opposite side of the crack that is pushing or pulling the wall at this point. and may even involve interior and exterior conditions. *If it is fracturing the tape joint at the ceiling and mid wall, there is plenty of movement going on. One stop gap approach that may last longer than what you've been doing would be to remove all tape and mudding and replace with thermal setting type compound and mesh tape. Hope this helps you some. -- ___________________________________ Keep the whole world singing . . . Dan G remove the seven- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I looked at the link and installation for that product: http://www.trim-tex.com/installation...%20Sh eet.pdf I get the idea that it's a flexible strip that goes between two sheets of drywall. But they don't say anything about how it's finished? It would appear from the pic it gets covered with mud? But, if so, what good does it do? If the two sheets move relative to each other the mud at the joint will still crack? Or do you not cover the middle with mud? I think that would look a bit odd in the wall, no? |
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What to do about drywall seams cracking ...AGAIN!
On Sun, 6 Jan 2013 06:37:00 -0800 (PST), Robert Macy
wrote: how to repaire [and prevent future cracking] WITHOUT adding a big LUMP to the seam? The wall run is around 60 feet and 10 feet tall. the junction right in the middle is wanting to crack. Trying to keep from forming lumps on the wall, I cut down, used paper tape with a layer of mud under and a layer on top. [Many may remember the problems I had posted earlier. I tried to wet the tape first thinking of wall paper and how that shrinks to fit, but wetting CAUSED the paper to 'slide' as it dried and thus a crack, so in response I took all that out and did it again with dry paper tape, which did work better. Only had the tiniest of hairline crack form all summer long only about four feet of run on the wall only.] Well this winter as we isolated that section of the house - meaning cooler temperatures and probably contracting drywall sheets, the crack(s) opened up with a vengence! I mean over 3 mil separation!, but worse the crack is the full floor to ceiling AND even now goes up along a ceiling section which I never had trouble with before. I suspect in the heat of the summer the crack will close back up, too. Yes, I know houses change shape with time, but this seems too much to be caused by 'settling'. My conjecture is is that this is more caused by 'flexing'. Oh yeah, the seams are ON a stud(s), so there should be no reason for movement there. So, my question is How do you repair/prevent cracking at drywall seams WITHOUT creating a huge lump on the surface? I already have built up 1/8 inch thick to ++ on these stupid seams. This indicates that there will likely be a massive Earth Quake in your area very soon. Once the house is destroyed by the quake, the wall cracks will not be noticable. Your best bet is to ignore the cracks while preparing for massive destruction and possibly your death. Now is the time to buy homeowners insurance, life insurance, and prepare your Last Will and Testament, and make funeral arrangements. |
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What to do about drywall seams cracking ...AGAIN!
On Sunday 06 January 2013 18:03 George wrote in alt.home.repair:
On 1/6/2013 12:08 PM, Tim Watts wrote: I've used fiber glass tape, looks like screen, on cracks around door frames that kept coming back. OK today. +1 This is the only "proper" way to do drywall joints. The tape spreads the strain over enough area that the plaster/filler on top can tolerate it without cracking. Bedded paper tape is the classic and standard way of finishing drywall seams. The tape does the job you described. http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/how-...410343,00.html The only time I've seen paper tape in use was to joint drywall that was painted direct without even as much as filling the joints - eg a crap bodge (cheap 1980's apartment builders in south London). Noone who is sane and/or not cheap would do it like that now. It's not in the UK - http://www.screwfix.com/p/no-nonsens...pe-scrim-48mm- x-90m/68520 I would take that as superior to paper tape anyday - not seen paper used for over 20 years now... -- Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/ "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." |
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What to do about drywall seams cracking ...AGAIN!
On Jan 6, 10:25*am, DanG wrote:
On 1/6/2013 11:08 AM, Tim Watts wrote: On Sunday 06 January 2013 14:42 Frank wrote in alt.home.repair: On 1/6/2013 9:37 AM, Robert Macy wrote: how to repaire [and prevent future cracking] WITHOUT adding a big LUMP to the seam? The wall run is around 60 feet and 10 feet tall. the junction right in the middle is wanting to crack. Trying to keep from forming lumps on the wall, I cut down, used paper tape with a layer of mud under and a layer on top. [Many may remember the problems I had posted earlier. I tried to wet the tape first thinking of wall paper and how that shrinks to fit, but wetting CAUSED the paper to 'slide' as it dried and thus a crack, so in response I took all that out and did it again with dry paper tape, which did work better. Only had the tiniest of hairline crack form all summer long only about four feet of run on the wall only.] Well this winter as we isolated that section of the house - meaning cooler temperatures and probably contracting drywall sheets, the crack(s) opened up with a vengence! I mean over 3 mil separation!, but worse the crack is the full floor to ceiling AND even now goes up along a ceiling section which I never had trouble with before. I suspect in the heat of the summer the crack will close back up, too. Yes, I know houses change shape with time, but this seems too much to be caused by 'settling'. My conjecture is is that this is more caused by 'flexing'. Oh yeah, the seams are ON a stud(s), so there should be no reason for movement there. So, my question is How do you repair/prevent cracking at drywall seams WITHOUT creating a huge lump on the surface? I already have built up 1/8 inch thick to ++ on these stupid seams. I've used fiber glass tape, looks like screen, on cracks around door frames that kept coming back. *OK today. +1 This is the only "proper" way to do drywall joints. The tape spreads the strain over enough area that the plaster/filler on top can tolerate it without cracking. The only time I've seen paper tape in use was to joint drywall that was painted direct without even as much as filling the joints - eg a crap bodge (cheap 1980's apartment builders in south London). Noone who is sane and/or not cheap would do it like that now. Paper tape is the normal and usual material to use. *The nylon mesh tape can be used on tapered joints, but no tapers I know would use it on butt joints or corners and so, most just use all paper usually installed with a "banjo". -- ___________________________________ Keep the whole world singing . . . Dan G remove the seven Agree about the butt joint. I tried it once and could discover no way at all to put a thin layer on top of it. When you "wipe" the wet joint compount the knife rides the highs and lows of he tape and that tecture shows through. As for the OPs problem. It appears that the framing is movign and until that is cured nothing will keep the crack from coming back. Harry K |
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Since I own a $25 curved trowel, the way I would proceed would be as follows: 1. Apply fiberglass mesh drywall joint tape over your existing cracked joint. 1 /2. Dilute some white wood glue with sufficient water to make it into a paintable consistancy and paint that glue onto the fiberglass mesh drywall joint tape. As the glue dries, it'll bond the fiberglass mesh to the painted drywall. This is an optional step. If you use "Regular" drywall joint compound for your first coat, you probably don't need to bother with this step because the glue in the joint compound will make it both stronger and bond to the paint better, and that will be sufficient to hold the tape securely in place, even when the wall bends. Where you'd need to do it is if you used a weaker mud to bury your fiberglass mesh tape in, like "Finish" drywall mud. The glue will ensure that the fiberglass is securely bonded to the surface of the wall even if the joint compound it's buried under isn't strong enough to carry the kind of stresses the tape may have to. Painting with diluted glue effectively allows the tape to do it's job of transfering tension from one sheet of drywall to the next without having to rely on the joint compound to be strong enough to hold that tape securely in place while it's under stress. 2. Use a "curved trowel" to spread a perfectly symmetric bed of drywall joint compound about 5/64 inches thick (in the middle) to bury the fiberglass mesh tape, but still not have a visible "bump" showing on the wall. Take a real close look at this curved trowel: At first glance, it looks like an ordinary plastering trowel. But, when you set it down on a flat surface, like a table top, or sight along it's edge, you'll find that it arches up about 1/8 of an inch in the middle; like this: Note that the gap between the straight line and the trowel is widest in the middle and narrowest at the ends. So, if you were to set the trowel down on a flat surface, there would be a 1/8 inch gap under the middle of the trowel. And, since you hold the trowel at a comfortable working angle to the wall when using it, a curved trowel allows an absolute newbie to spread a perfectly symmetric mound of drywall joint compound that will only be about 5/64ths of an inch thick in the middle, and taper to zero thickness on both sides of the mound in a symmetrical fashion. And, that newbie will be able to do that right off the hop without having to rely on years of plastering experience that he doesn't have. 5/64ths of an inch is more than deep enough to bury fiberglass mesh tape in, but not nearly thick enough to cause a visible "bump" to be seen on the wall, even if you have wall mounted light fixtures. My sister used my curved trowel to refinish the basement drywall in her house after a mini-flood caused by her sewer backing up. She has wall mounted light fixtures, and I cannot see that the bottom 12 inches of drywall were replaced with Dens-Shield throughout her basement (and I know where to look cuz I showed her how to do every step of that repair work using my tools). ((I provided the advice and the tools, the Bank of Dad provided the money for materials, and she provided the elbow grease. And now no one would ever guess that her basement was ever flooded.)) And, you should also be aware that there are different kinds of drywall mud: A. "Regular" or "Taping" drywall mud has the most glue in it. It sticks to the drywall better and the paper tape sticks best to it. But, because of the glue, this kind of mud dries the hardest, and is therefore the most difficult to sand smooth. It's typically only used for the first coat. B. "Finish" or "Topping" drywall mud has the least glue in it. As a result, it dries the softest and is the easiest to sand smooth. C. "All Purpose" is about half way between Regular and Finish. It's popular with drywall contractors because it allows them to use one mud on small jobs for both taping and finishing. In this case, if I were you, I'd probably use All Purpose drywall mud. Or, use Regular to bury the fiberglass mesh, allow to dry, hold a bright light up to the joint compound and scrape off anything sticking out proud of the mound with a sharp paint scraper, and then use Finish drywall mud to give the repair a second coat. For the second coat, use a normal plastering trowel or wide taping knife moving perpendicular to the direction you used the curved trowel in so as to follow the contour of the mound. Typically, it takes a good three coats to get a smooth surface to prime and paint over. When I do this kind of work, I don't sand the first or second coats; I just scrape off anything sticking out with a paint scraper and apply the next coat. After sanding the third coat, be sure to wipe the sanding dust off the wall so that it doesn't interfere with the adhesion of the primer or paint. Finally, ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS shine a bright light at a sharp angle to the plastering work you do to inspect your progress between coats. The sharp angle of the lighting will make every glitch in your plastering stand out, thereby giving you a much better mental image of where you need to add mud and where you need to remove it to make the surface smooth. When your plastering looks "Could be worse" under such critical lighting, it'll look "Not too bad" under normal lighting. When it looks "Good" under critical lighting, it'll look "Perfect" under normal lighting. The hardest plaster/drywall repairs to do (on non-textured surfaces) are on ceilings where ceiling mounted light fixtures make every imperfection stand out, thereby requiring a perfect plastering job before priming and painting. Hope this helps. Last edited by nestork : January 7th 13 at 07:52 AM |
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What to do about drywall seams cracking ...AGAIN!
On Jan 6, 9:37*am, Robert Macy wrote:
So, my question is How do you repair/prevent cracking at drywall seams WITHOUT creating a huge lump on the surface? I already have built up 1/8 inch thick to ++ on these stupid seams. More mud = more cracking. Tape/mud won't keep a wall from moving. If the wall is moving, pull that sheet off and tie the studs together, which if the studs are wood should have fire blocks installed between them already. The bed coat for the tape only needs enough mud to paste the tape solidly to the wall; all excess should be removed, the tape should be visible through the mud. The 2nd (and 3rd) coats should not extend beyond the taper in any direction. You apply the 2nd coat and knife it level with the taper. The 3rd coat, if necessary, is knifed identically. Self-sticking fiber tape is often easier for the novice to apply, and perfectly acceptable, the bed coat just goes over instead of under. ----- - gpsman |
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What to do about drywall seams cracking ...AGAIN!
wrote in message ... On Sun, 06 Jan 2013 17:08:03 +0000, Tim Watts wrote: On Sunday 06 January 2013 14:42 Frank wrote in alt.home.repair: On 1/6/2013 9:37 AM, Robert Macy wrote: how to repaire [and prevent future cracking] WITHOUT adding a big LUMP to the seam? The wall run is around 60 feet and 10 feet tall. the junction right in the middle is wanting to crack. Trying to keep from forming lumps on the wall, I cut down, used paper tape with a layer of mud under and a layer on top. [Many may remember the problems I had posted earlier. I tried to wet the tape first thinking of wall paper and how that shrinks to fit, but wetting CAUSED the paper to 'slide' as it dried and thus a crack, so in response I took all that out and did it again with dry paper tape, which did work better. Only had the tiniest of hairline crack form all summer long only about four feet of run on the wall only.] Well this winter as we isolated that section of the house - meaning cooler temperatures and probably contracting drywall sheets, the crack(s) opened up with a vengence! I mean over 3 mil separation!, but worse the crack is the full floor to ceiling AND even now goes up along a ceiling section which I never had trouble with before. I suspect in the heat of the summer the crack will close back up, too. Yes, I know houses change shape with time, but this seems too much to be caused by 'settling'. My conjecture is is that this is more caused by 'flexing'. Oh yeah, the seams are ON a stud(s), so there should be no reason for movement there. So, my question is How do you repair/prevent cracking at drywall seams WITHOUT creating a huge lump on the surface? I already have built up 1/8 inch thick to ++ on these stupid seams. I've used fiber glass tape, looks like screen, on cracks around door frames that kept coming back. OK today. +1 This is the only "proper" way to do drywall joints. The tape spreads the strain over enough area that the plaster/filler on top can tolerate it without cracking. Here in north america paper tape is the norm - the drywall is paper faced with a tapered edge - the joint is mudded, the paper tape embedded, and the surface leveled with mud. Perhaps using a "curing" compound instead of a "drying" compound would make a difference??.(Also called "Hot mud" or "quick set" or "setting type") - has a number as part of the name - like "sheetrock 45" or "durabond 90" It is higher strength.. The normal stuff is awfull to sand - but there are now easy-sand versions. I would not use the setting type for fine finishing. The only time I've seen paper tape in use was to joint drywall that was painted direct without even as much as filling the joints - eg a crap bodge (cheap 1980's apartment builders in south London). Noone who is sane and/or not cheap would do it like that now. I agree about the mud. Everyone appears to dwell on the tape. Durabond for the first coat should solve the problem. |
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What to do about drywall seams cracking ...AGAIN!
On Jan 6, 11:15*am, DanG wrote:
On 1/6/2013 8:37 AM, Robert Macy wrote: how to repaire [and prevent future cracking] WITHOUT adding a big LUMP to the seam? The wall run is around 60 feet and 10 feet tall. the junction right in the middle is wanting to crack. Trying to keep from forming lumps on the wall, I cut down, used paper tape with a layer of mud under and a layer on top. [Many may remember the problems I had posted earlier. I tried to wet the tape first thinking of wall paper and how that shrinks to fit, but wetting CAUSED the paper to 'slide' as it dried and thus a crack, so in response I took all that out and did it again with dry paper tape, which did work better. Only had the tiniest of hairline crack form all summer long only about four feet of run on the wall only.] Well this winter as we isolated that section of the house - meaning cooler temperatures and probably contracting drywall sheets, the crack(s) opened up with a vengence! I mean over 3 mil separation!, but worse the crack is the full floor to ceiling AND even now goes up along a ceiling section which I never had trouble with before. I suspect in the heat of the summer the crack will close back up, too. Yes, I know houses change shape with time, but this seems too much to be caused by 'settling'. My conjecture is is that this is more caused by 'flexing'. Oh yeah, the seams are ON a stud(s), so there should be no reason for movement there. So, my question is How do you repair/prevent cracking at drywall seams WITHOUT creating a huge lump on the surface? I already have built up 1/8 inch thick to ++ on these stupid seams. It sure seems like a lot of your posts indicate *pretty marginal understanding of construction. No one would expect a 60' wall to not have any relief. Here is a link to the USG Gypsum Construction Hand Book - pretty much a bible for the drywall, plaster, and acoustic trades.http://www.usg.com/resource-center/g...handbook.html# Your current question is covered in Chapter 15 -Building Sciences. *The bottom line is that drywall should never exceed 30' without some type of relief. *Your best solution would be to install one or more expansion joints in the wall. *I prefer using Trim Tex parts, here is a link showing you how they should be installed:http://www.trim-tex.com/installation-sheets.html Go down to the one entitled Hide away expansion bead This will be a nasty remodel to get the extra stud installed in the wall, but will be the best long term solution. *I suspect that you have a wall or something on the opposite side of the crack that is pushing or pulling the wall at this point. and may even involve interior and exterior conditions. *If it is fracturing the tape joint at the ceiling and mid wall, there is plenty of movement going on. One stop gap approach that may last longer than what you've been doing would be to remove all tape and mudding and replace with thermal setting type compound and mesh tape. Hope this helps you some. -- ___________________________________ Keep the whole world singing . . . Dan G remove the seven THANK YOU!!! Wealth of information there. Took a few days to get downloaded, [dial up] but worthwhile. The expansion joint from Trim-Tex is very interesting. I actually have the 'extra' stud inside the wall, so using it should be easy. Any ideas on how to download Chapter 1? kept getting an error on that one. |
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What to do about drywall seams cracking ...AGAIN!
On Jan 8, 12:23*pm, Robert Macy wrote:
On Jan 6, 11:15*am, DanG wrote: On 1/6/2013 8:37 AM, Robert Macy wrote: how to repaire [and prevent future cracking] WITHOUT adding a big LUMP to the seam? The wall run is around 60 feet and 10 feet tall. the junction right in the middle is wanting to crack. Trying to keep from forming lumps on the wall, I cut down, used paper tape with a layer of mud under and a layer on top. [Many may remember the problems I had posted earlier. I tried to wet the tape first thinking of wall paper and how that shrinks to fit, but wetting CAUSED the paper to 'slide' as it dried and thus a crack, so in response I took all that out and did it again with dry paper tape, which did work better. Only had the tiniest of hairline crack form all summer long only about four feet of run on the wall only.] Well this winter as we isolated that section of the house - meaning cooler temperatures and probably contracting drywall sheets, the crack(s) opened up with a vengence! I mean over 3 mil separation!, but worse the crack is the full floor to ceiling AND even now goes up along a ceiling section which I never had trouble with before. I suspect in the heat of the summer the crack will close back up, too. Yes, I know houses change shape with time, but this seems too much to be caused by 'settling'. My conjecture is is that this is more caused by 'flexing'. Oh yeah, the seams are ON a stud(s), so there should be no reason for movement there. So, my question is How do you repair/prevent cracking at drywall seams WITHOUT creating a huge lump on the surface? I already have built up 1/8 inch thick to ++ on these stupid seams. It sure seems like a lot of your posts indicate *pretty marginal understanding of construction. No one would expect a 60' wall to not have any relief. Here is a link to the USG Gypsum Construction Hand Book - pretty much a bible for the drywall, plaster, and acoustic trades.http://www.usg.com/resource-center/g...handbook.html# Your current question is covered in Chapter 15 -Building Sciences. *The bottom line is that drywall should never exceed 30' without some type of relief. *Your best solution would be to install one or more expansion joints in the wall. *I prefer using Trim Tex parts, here is a link showing you how they should be installed:http://www.trim-tex.com/installation-sheets.html Go down to the one entitled Hide away expansion bead This will be a nasty remodel to get the extra stud installed in the wall, but will be the best long term solution. *I suspect that you have a wall or something on the opposite side of the crack that is pushing or pulling the wall at this point. and may even involve interior and exterior conditions. *If it is fracturing the tape joint at the ceiling and mid wall, there is plenty of movement going on. One stop gap approach that may last longer than what you've been doing would be to remove all tape and mudding and replace with thermal setting type compound and mesh tape. Hope this helps you some. -- ___________________________________ Keep the whole world singing . . . Dan G remove the seven THANK YOU!!! Wealth of information there. *Took a few days to get downloaded, [dial up] but worthwhile. The expansion joint from Trim-Tex is very interesting. *I actually have the 'extra' stud inside the wall, so using it should be easy. Any ideas on how to download Chapter 1? kept getting an error on that one.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Any ideas on how you finish that product? It's totally unclear from the datasheet. What are you looking at on the wall |
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What to do about drywall seams cracking ...AGAIN!
On 1/8/2013 12:23 PM, Robert Macy wrote:
On Jan 6, 11:15 am, DanG wrote: On 1/6/2013 8:37 AM, Robert Macy wrote: how to repaire [and prevent future cracking] WITHOUT adding a big LUMP to the seam? The wall run is around 60 feet and 10 feet tall. the junction right in the middle is wanting to crack. Trying to keep from forming lumps on the wall, I cut down, used paper tape with a layer of mud under and a layer on top. [Many may remember the problems I had posted earlier. I tried to wet the tape first thinking of wall paper and how that shrinks to fit, but wetting CAUSED the paper to 'slide' as it dried and thus a crack, so in response I took all that out and did it again with dry paper tape, which did work better. Only had the tiniest of hairline crack form all summer long only about four feet of run on the wall only.] Well this winter as we isolated that section of the house - meaning cooler temperatures and probably contracting drywall sheets, the crack(s) opened up with a vengence! I mean over 3 mil separation!, but worse the crack is the full floor to ceiling AND even now goes up along a ceiling section which I never had trouble with before. I suspect in the heat of the summer the crack will close back up, too. Yes, I know houses change shape with time, but this seems too much to be caused by 'settling'. My conjecture is is that this is more caused by 'flexing'. Oh yeah, the seams are ON a stud(s), so there should be no reason for movement there. So, my question is How do you repair/prevent cracking at drywall seams WITHOUT creating a huge lump on the surface? I already have built up 1/8 inch thick to ++ on these stupid seams. It sure seems like a lot of your posts indicate pretty marginal understanding of construction. No one would expect a 60' wall to not have any relief. Here is a link to the USG Gypsum Construction Hand Book - pretty much a bible for the drywall, plaster, and acoustic trades.http://www.usg.com/resource-center/g...handbook.html# Your current question is covered in Chapter 15 -Building Sciences. The bottom line is that drywall should never exceed 30' without some type of relief. Your best solution would be to install one or more expansion joints in the wall. I prefer using Trim Tex parts, here is a link showing you how they should be installed:http://www.trim-tex.com/installation-sheets.html Go down to the one entitled Hide away expansion bead This will be a nasty remodel to get the extra stud installed in the wall, but will be the best long term solution. I suspect that you have a wall or something on the opposite side of the crack that is pushing or pulling the wall at this point. and may even involve interior and exterior conditions. If it is fracturing the tape joint at the ceiling and mid wall, there is plenty of movement going on. One stop gap approach that may last longer than what you've been doing would be to remove all tape and mudding and replace with thermal setting type compound and mesh tape. Hope this helps you some. -- ___________________________________ Keep the whole world singing . . . Dan G remove the seven THANK YOU!!! Wealth of information there. Took a few days to get downloaded, [dial up] but worthwhile. The expansion joint from Trim-Tex is very interesting. I actually have the 'extra' stud inside the wall, so using it should be easy. Any ideas on how to download Chapter 1? kept getting an error on that one. I just tried and it took a few seconds to get other chapters but chapter one gives this error: Not Found The requested URL /documents/construction-handbook/chapter1.pdf was not found on this server. You may want to send an email to them report the broken link. |
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What to do about drywall seams cracking ...AGAIN!
On Tue, 8 Jan 2013 10:01:38 -0800 (PST), "
wrote: Any ideas on how you finish that product? It's totally unclear from the datasheet. What are you looking at on the wall Mud to the protected gap, pull protective strip, then sand. You can paint inside the gap, or not.. http://www.trim-tex.com/installation...on%20Sheet.pdf You're looking at an open V gap in the wall/ceiling, painted or not. Drywall control joint might be the best search term. This shows a top view. http://tinyurl.com/arxp3rn I've never seen them anywhere. Just got curious. |
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What to do about drywall seams cracking ...AGAIN!
"Robert Macy" wrote in message
... how to repaire [and prevent future cracking] WITHOUT adding a big LUMP to the seam? The wall run is around 60 feet and 10 feet tall. the junction right in the middle is wanting to crack. Trying to keep from forming lumps on the wall, I cut down, used paper tape with a layer of mud under and a layer on top. [Many may remember the problems I had posted earlier. I tried to wet the tape first thinking of wall paper and how that shrinks to fit, but wetting CAUSED the paper to 'slide' as it dried and thus a crack, so in response I took all that out and did it again with dry paper tape, which did work better. Only had the tiniest of hairline crack form all summer long only about four feet of run on the wall only.] Well this winter as we isolated that section of the house - meaning cooler temperatures and probably contracting drywall sheets, the crack(s) opened up with a vengence! I mean over 3 mil separation!, but worse the crack is the full floor to ceiling AND even now goes up along a ceiling section which I never had trouble with before. I suspect in the heat of the summer the crack will close back up, too. Yes, I know houses change shape with time, but this seems too much to be caused by 'settling'. My conjecture is is that this is more caused by 'flexing'. Oh yeah, the seams are ON a stud(s), so there should be no reason for movement there. So, my question is How do you repair/prevent cracking at drywall seams WITHOUT creating a huge lump on the surface? I already have built up 1/8 inch thick to ++ on these stupid seams. I have been in the drywall business for some 30 years so I'll toss out a few suggestions...With a run that long you are probably crossing a structual beam , post or whatever..Which is fine if you run the 12 foot sheets horizontal and make sure the stress point is in the middle of the sheet but I'm guessing the sheets are run vertical or if the sheets were run horizontal there was a floor to ceiling butt joint put there..Either way you're screwed so to speak and not even Durabond is gonna help..Here is what I would do.. Cut the drywall back a few studs on either side of the crack and span the stress point with new drywall..Mud the 2 new butt joints and paint..To much work ??Construct a false beam by screwing 2X4s or whatever you want or have laying around to the wall, sheetrock , add cornerbead and mud...To much work ?? Buy some trim boards and moulding and build a false beam over the spot..Still to much work ?? Buy a 1x4 pine board , nail it to the wall covering the crack and paint it...HTH... |
#27
Posted to alt.home.repair
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What to do about drywall seams cracking ...AGAIN!
On Tue, 8 Jan 2013 18:40:55 -0500, "benick"
wrote: "Robert Macy" wrote in message ... how to repaire [and prevent future cracking] WITHOUT adding a big LUMP to the seam? The wall run is around 60 feet and 10 feet tall. the junction right in the middle is wanting to crack. Trying to keep from forming lumps on the wall, I cut down, used paper tape with a layer of mud under and a layer on top. [Many may remember the problems I had posted earlier. I tried to wet the tape first thinking of wall paper and how that shrinks to fit, but wetting CAUSED the paper to 'slide' as it dried and thus a crack, so in response I took all that out and did it again with dry paper tape, which did work better. Only had the tiniest of hairline crack form all summer long only about four feet of run on the wall only.] Well this winter as we isolated that section of the house - meaning cooler temperatures and probably contracting drywall sheets, the crack(s) opened up with a vengence! I mean over 3 mil separation!, but worse the crack is the full floor to ceiling AND even now goes up along a ceiling section which I never had trouble with before. I suspect in the heat of the summer the crack will close back up, too. Yes, I know houses change shape with time, but this seems too much to be caused by 'settling'. My conjecture is is that this is more caused by 'flexing'. Oh yeah, the seams are ON a stud(s), so there should be no reason for movement there. So, my question is How do you repair/prevent cracking at drywall seams WITHOUT creating a huge lump on the surface? I already have built up 1/8 inch thick to ++ on these stupid seams. I have been in the drywall business for some 30 years so I'll toss out a few suggestions...With a run that long you are probably crossing a structual beam , post or whatever..Which is fine if you run the 12 foot sheets horizontal and make sure the stress point is in the middle of the sheet but I'm guessing the sheets are run vertical or if the sheets were run horizontal there was a floor to ceiling butt joint put there..Either way you're screwed so to speak and not even Durabond is gonna help..Here is what I would do.. Cut the drywall back a few studs on either side of the crack and span the stress point with new drywall..Mud the 2 new butt joints and paint..To much work ??Construct a false beam by screwing 2X4s or whatever you want or have laying around to the wall, sheetrock , add cornerbead and mud...To much work ?? Buy some trim boards and moulding and build a false beam over the spot..Still to much work ?? Buy a 1x4 pine board , nail it to the wall covering the crack and paint it...HTH... Paint a mural of the Parthenon on the wall. If you don't want to fix it, feature it. |
#29
Posted to alt.home.repair
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What to do about drywall seams cracking ...AGAIN!
On Jan 8, 4:40*pm, "benick" wrote:
"Robert Macy" wrote in message ... how to repaire [and prevent future cracking] WITHOUT adding a big LUMP to the seam? The wall run is around 60 feet and 10 feet tall. the junction right in the middle is wanting to crack. Trying to keep from forming lumps on the wall, I cut down, used paper tape with a layer of mud under and a layer on top. [Many may remember the problems I had posted earlier. I tried to wet the tape first thinking of wall paper and how that shrinks to fit, but wetting CAUSED the paper to 'slide' as it dried and thus a crack, so in response I took all that out and did it again with dry paper tape, which did work better. Only had the tiniest of hairline crack form all summer long only about four feet of run on the wall only.] Well this winter as we isolated that section of the house - meaning cooler temperatures and probably contracting drywall sheets, the crack(s) opened up with a vengence! I mean over 3 mil separation!, but worse the crack is the full floor to ceiling AND even now goes up along a ceiling section which I never had trouble with before. I suspect in the heat of the summer the crack will close back up, too. Yes, I know houses change shape with time, but this seems too much to be caused by 'settling'. My conjecture is is that this is more caused by 'flexing'. Oh yeah, the seams are ON a stud(s), so there should be no reason for movement there. So, my question is How do you repair/prevent cracking at drywall seams WITHOUT creating a huge lump on the surface? I already have built up 1/8 inch thick to ++ on these stupid seams. I have been in the drywall business for some 30 years so I'll toss out a few suggestions...With a run that long you are probably crossing a structual beam , post or whatever..Which is fine if you run the 12 foot sheets horizontal and make sure the stress point is in the middle of the sheet but I'm guessing the sheets are run vertical or if the sheets were run horizontal there was a floor to ceiling butt joint put there..Either way you're screwed so to speak and not even Durabond is gonna help..Here is what I would do.. Cut the drywall back a few studs on either side of the crack and span the stress point with new drywall..Mud the 2 new butt joints and paint..To much work ??Construct a false beam by screwing 2X4s or whatever you want or have laying around to the wall, sheetrock , add cornerbead and mud...To much work ?? Buy some trim boards and moulding and build a false beam over the spot..Still to much work ?? Buy a 1x4 pine board , nail it to the wall covering the crack and paint it...HTH... Thanks for all the good suggestions. The sheets are horizontal. I actually was originally leaning toward putting something that looks like it 'belongs' on the wall at that location, but since had forgotten. Think I got used to the 'clean' look. What is irritating is is that *IF* the tape were 3, or even 4 inches wide, I think the joint would have remained invisible. The tape simply ripped loose on one side and then transferred the crack to its edge. Where the tape did not come loose [perhaps less tension on it] the surface remained crack free. Temperature did have a lot to do with the crack formation. the room originally set around 90 degrees [i'm old] but now is isolated and has dropped to around 60 - that's when the cracks showed up with a vengence. But, while I've been working in that room, the temp has gone up to around 70 and some of the cracks have turned 'invisible' again. But, must make certain that they cannot form, else they permanently will show [until re-re-repair] Perhaps if I repair this wall in a COLD room, then when the heat comes back, the tape and mud will take the compression better and no crack will form? when it turns cold again. |
#30
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What to do about drywall seams cracking ...AGAIN!
On Sunday, 6 January 2013 09:37:00 UTC-5, Robert Macy wrote:
how to repaire [and prevent future cracking] WITHOUT adding a big LUMP to the seam? The wall run is around 60 feet and 10 feet tall. the junction right in the middle is wanting to crack. Trying to keep from forming lumps on the wall, I cut down, used paper tape with a layer of mud under and a layer on top. [Many may remember the problems I had posted earlier. I tried to wet the tape first thinking of wall paper and how that shrinks to fit, but wetting CAUSED the paper to 'slide' as it dried and thus a crack, so in response I took all that out and did it again with dry paper tape, which did work better. Only had the tiniest of hairline crack form all summer long only about four feet of run on the wall only.] Well this winter as we isolated that section of the house - meaning cooler temperatures and probably contracting drywall sheets, the crack(s) opened up with a vengence! I mean over 3 mil separation!, but worse the crack is the full floor to ceiling AND even now goes up along a ceiling section which I never had trouble with before. I suspect in the heat of the summer the crack will close back up, too. Yes, I know houses change shape with time, but this seems too much to be caused by 'settling'. My conjecture is is that this is more caused by 'flexing'. Oh yeah, the seams are ON a stud(s), so there should be no reason for movement there. So, my question is How do you repair/prevent cracking at drywall seams WITHOUT creating a huge lump on the surface? I already have built up 1/8 inch thick to ++ on these stupid seams. |
#31
Posted to alt.home.repair
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What to do about drywall seams cracking ...AGAIN!
The human hair is 3/1000 of an inch far less than a single mm. I am having the same issue on a ceiling seam, but the contractor before me used 1/4" drywall and I am loathe to tear it down and do it in 1/2"
I am a applying a second layer of paper tape after sanding a large portion of the mud down. Updates will follow |
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