[bob haller]

My GFs sisters family bought a new sears water heater and had it
installed by sears last july. It quit working over a week ago and
sears hasnt got the parts yet, they promise AGAIN it will be fixed
by friday some parts didnt help......

Meanwhile no hot water at all

I think sears should of had the parts overnighted, and since they
have been unable to fix it they should offer a refund on the tank.
maybe 50% but perhaps more.

what do all of you think? I beleve no hot water for over a week is
unacceptable.....

and this occured in pittsburgh far from the new york disaster...

[Stormin Mormon[_7_]]

What we, on the list, think is irrelevant. What counts is what's in the
contract, and what your sister's uncle's girl friend's cousin, twice
removed, hair dresser, dog trimmer, lady down the street, can enforce.

How are you involved? What's your interest?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"bob haller" wrote in message
...
My GFs sisters family bought a new sears water heater and had it
installed by sears last july. It quit working over a week ago and
sears hasnt got the parts yet, they promise AGAIN it will be fixed
by friday some parts didnt help......

Meanwhile no hot water at all

I think sears should of had the parts overnighted, and since they
have been unable to fix it they should offer a refund on the tank.
maybe 50% but perhaps more.

what do all of you think? I beleve no hot water for over a week is
unacceptable.....

and this occured in pittsburgh far from the new york disaster...

[[email protected][_2_]]

On Nov 6, 9:18*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
What we, on the list, think is irrelevant. What counts is what's in the
contract, and what your sister's uncle's girl friend's cousin, twice
removed, hair dresser, dog trimmer, lady down the street, can enforce.

How are you involved? What's your interest?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

"bob haller" wrote in message

...
My GFs sisters family bought a new sears water heater and had it
installed by sears last july. It quit working over a week ago and
sears hasnt got the parts yet, they promise AGAIN it will be fixed
by friday some parts didnt help......

Meanwhile no hot water at all

I think *sears should of had the parts overnighted, and since they
have been unable to fix it they should offer a refund on the tank.
maybe 50% but perhaps more.

what do all of you think? I beleve no hot water for over a week is
unacceptable.....

and this occured in pittsburgh far from the new york disaster...


I would think they deserve something in the way of compensation.
But what if anything they get is probably entirely up to Sears and
I'd say half the total cost of the water heater and installation is
expecting a bit much. Technically, I think it's rare to see a
warranty that even addresses how long they have to fix it. I'd say
if they gave you even $100 you'd be lucky.

[Tony Hwang]

bob haller wrote:
My GFs sisters family bought a new sears water heater and had it
installed by sears last july. It quit working over a week ago and
sears hasnt got the parts yet, they promise AGAIN it will be fixed
by friday some parts didnt help......

Meanwhile no hot water at all

I think sears should of had the parts overnighted, and since they
have been unable to fix it they should offer a refund on the tank.
maybe 50% but perhaps more.

what do all of you think? I beleve no hot water for over a week is
unacceptable.....

and this occured in pittsburgh far from the new york disaster...

Hi,
I always used Sears for convenience, not the price. They come in three
levels of tanks, best being 10 year free replacement one. Never had
problem with their service. If they live in smaller town, don't think
they carry full line of parts locally. I live in a city where their
regional parts depot is. Never had an issue with parts requirement.
Any how, there are not many parts on a water heater. What's the matter?
Can't they rob the needed parts from their inventlry of tanks? Not
having hot water is a bummer.

[IGot2P]

On 11/6/2012 8:12 AM, bob haller wrote:
My GFs sisters family bought a new sears water heater and had it
installed by sears last july. It quit working over a week ago and
sears hasnt got the parts yet, they promise AGAIN it will be fixed
by friday some parts didnt help......

Meanwhile no hot water at all

I think sears should of had the parts overnighted, and since they
have been unable to fix it they should offer a refund on the tank.
maybe 50% but perhaps more.

what do all of you think? I beleve no hot water for over a week is
unacceptable.....

and this occured in pittsburgh far from the new york disaster...


Although not having hot water would really suck, I really don't think
that Sears owes them anything. In a nutshell, sh*t happens so tell them
to make the best of it.

[George]

On 11/6/2012 9:12 AM, bob haller wrote:
My GFs sisters family bought a new sears water heater and had it
installed by sears last july. It quit working over a week ago and
sears hasnt got the parts yet, they promise AGAIN it will be fixed
by friday some parts didnt help......

Meanwhile no hot water at all

I think sears should of had the parts overnighted, and since they
have been unable to fix it they should offer a refund on the tank.
maybe 50% but perhaps more.

what do all of you think? I beleve no hot water for over a week is
unacceptable.....

and this occured in pittsburgh far from the new york disaster...


I gave up on sears after this. We had a sears refrigerator and one
morning I noticed the evaporator fan had failed. I called the local
"sears part center" and they verified they had one on hand. I asked them
to hold it for me. Drove all the way to the store and they say they
don't have one. I asked the guy to check if one was at another store or
they can get one shipped in from someplace else and he told me I would
need to check around on my own. So I forget about sears forever more.

Instead of sears I called an appliance parts place that was further
away. They said they had a universal model that came with various
brackets. I drove over there and bought it then back home to install.

As far as your case likely their warranty specifies you are on your own.
So fair is whatever you can get.

[bob haller]

On Nov 6, 12:56*pm, George wrote:
On 11/6/2012 9:12 AM, bob haller wrote:





My GFs sisters family bought a new sears water heater and had it
installed by sears last july. It quit working over a week ago and
sears hasnt got the parts yet, they promise AGAIN it will be fixed
by friday some parts didnt help......

Meanwhile no hot water at all

I think *sears should of had the parts overnighted, and since they
have been unable to fix it they should offer a refund on the tank.
maybe 50% but perhaps more.

what do all of you think? I beleve no hot water for over a week is
unacceptable.....

and this occured in pittsburgh far from the new york disaster...

I gave up on sears after this. We had a sears refrigerator and one
morning I noticed the evaporator fan had failed. I called the local
"sears part center" and they verified they had one on hand. I asked them
to hold it for me. Drove all the way to the store and they say they
don't have one. I asked the guy to check if one was at another store or
they can get one shipped in from someplace else and he told me I would
need to check around on my own. So I forget about sears forever more.

Instead of sears I called an appliance parts place that was further
away. They said they had a universal model that came with various
brackets. I drove over there and bought it then back home to install.

As far as your case likely their warranty specifies you are on your own.
So fair is whatever you can get.

Well the victim of no parts in stock live in pittsburgh pa a pretty
big town with the major parts service depot on 51st street ..ornite
fed Xtype parts delivery should be the norm for brand new tank fails
under warranty.... not repeated parts will be here in 3 days.

I quit buying anything from sears that will ever need service after
being charged twice for a furnace with air service. travel charge one
was fine but half of a 100 bucks for the tech on site to swap tool
kits is plain gouging. sears is headed to bankruptcy and liquidation
and they deserve it.

[WW[_2_]]

"bob haller" wrote in message
...

My GFs sisters family bought a new sears water heater and had it
installed by sears last july. It quit working over a week ago and
sears hasnt got the parts yet, they promise AGAIN it will be fixed
by friday some parts didnt help......

Meanwhile no hot water at all

I think sears should of had the parts overnighted, and since they
have been unable to fix it they should offer a refund on the tank.
maybe 50% but perhaps more.

what do all of you think? I beleve no hot water for over a week is
unacceptable.....

and this occured in pittsburgh far from the new york disaster...

I quit buying from Sears years ago. I don't care if they quit. Any thing I
bought from them turned out to be a POS in a short time. WW

[hr(bob) [email protected]]

On Nov 6, 2:45*pm, bob haller wrote:
On Nov 6, 12:56*pm, George wrote:





On 11/6/2012 9:12 AM, bob haller wrote:

My GFs sisters family bought a new sears water heater and had it
installed by sears last july. It quit working over a week ago and
sears hasnt got the parts yet, they promise AGAIN it will be fixed
by friday some parts didnt help......

Meanwhile no hot water at all

I think *sears should of had the parts overnighted, and since they
have been unable to fix it they should offer a refund on the tank.
maybe 50% but perhaps more.

what do all of you think? I beleve no hot water for over a week is
unacceptable.....

and this occured in pittsburgh far from the new york disaster...

I gave up on sears after this. We had a sears refrigerator and one
morning I noticed the evaporator fan had failed. I called the local
"sears part center" and they verified they had one on hand. I asked them
to hold it for me. Drove all the way to the store and they say they
don't have one. I asked the guy to check if one was at another store or
they can get one shipped in from someplace else and he told me I would
need to check around on my own. So I forget about sears forever more.

Instead of sears I called an appliance parts place that was further
away. They said they had a universal model that came with various
brackets. I drove over there and bought it then back home to install.

As far as your case likely their warranty specifies you are on your own..
So fair is whatever you can get.

Well the victim of no parts in stock live in pittsburgh pa a pretty
big town with the major parts service depot on 51st street ..ornite
fed Xtype parts delivery should be the norm for brand new tank fails
under warranty.... not repeated parts will be here in 3 days.

I quit buying anything from sears that will ever need service after
being charged twice for a furnace with air service. travel charge one
was fine but half of a 100 bucks for the tech on site to swap tool
kits is plain gouging. sears is headed to bankruptcy and liquidation
and they deserve it.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yeah, I used to go to Sears at least monthly to look around the tool
dept, did that from 1965 until about 8 - 10 years ago when they really
started downhill. Haven't been in our nearby Sears in more than a
year now.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Tue, 6 Nov 2012 06:12:10 -0800 (PST), bob haller
wrote:

My GFs sisters family bought a new sears water heater and had it
installed by sears last july. It quit working over a week ago and
sears hasnt got the parts yet, they promise AGAIN it will be fixed
by friday some parts didnt help......

Meanwhile no hot water at all

I think sears should of had the parts overnighted, and since they
have been unable to fix it they should offer a refund on the tank.
maybe 50% but perhaps more.

what do all of you think? I beleve no hot water for over a week is
unacceptable.....

and this occured in pittsburgh far from the new york disaster...

Doubt they will do anything and the warranty probably tell you that.
Yes, it is poor performance. Sears has not been Sears for a few
years. They are owned by K-Mart and even worse that way they used to
be.

Personally, I've not bought anything from Sears for years and I'd
certainly not buy a major household item.

[Jon Danniken[_7_]]

On 11/06/2012 06:12 AM, bob haller wrote:
My GFs sisters family bought a new sears water heater and had it
installed by sears last july. It quit working over a week ago and
sears hasnt got the parts yet, they promise AGAIN it will be fixed
by friday some parts didnt help......

Meanwhile no hot water at all

I think sears should of had the parts overnighted, and since they
have been unable to fix it they should offer a refund on the tank.
maybe 50% but perhaps more.

what do all of you think? I beleve no hot water for over a week is
unacceptable.....

Last July, as in July, 2012, or last July, as in July, 2011?

Interesting quandry; while they are obligated to honor their warranty,
what is the "timeliness" of such service? Some states have strong
consumer protection laws that provide reasonable relief, and I would
think that not having hot water for a week could be classified as
unreasonable, based on the fact that a water heater is a very simple
device, using standard parts and such.

If it was me, I would contact my state's Attorney General and make an
inquiry as to this situation; even if they don't jump on it, you might
get a better response from Sears by letting them know that you have
involved the Attorney General on the case, as well as publishing it on
the web. Make sure the right person at Sears hears this; if you go up
high enough the heater will get fixed tomorrow.

Jon

[Sergeant Hulka]

**** like this is why I have not been in a sears store in 20 years.

When my old water heater sprung a leak, the local plumber had it
replaced 4 hours after I called him.

[bob haller]

The brand new heater was installed in july 2012, its just 6 months
old.....

if it was mine I would be contacting the media and parading around
sears parking lot with a complaint sign........

the squeaky wheel gets the grease

[[email protected][_2_]]

On Nov 6, 10:57*am, Tony Hwang wrote:
bob haller wrote:
My GFs sisters family bought a new sears water heater and had it
installed by sears last july. It quit working over a week ago and
sears hasnt got the parts yet, they promise AGAIN it will be fixed
by friday some parts didnt help......

Meanwhile no hot water at all

I think *sears should of had the parts overnighted, and since they
have been unable to fix it they should offer a refund on the tank.
maybe 50% but perhaps more.

what do all of you think? I beleve no hot water for over a week is
unacceptable.....

and this occured in pittsburgh far from the new york disaster...

Hi,
I always used Sears for convenience, not the price. They come in three
levels of tanks, best being 10 year free replacement one. Never had
problem with their service. If they live in smaller town, don't think
they carry full line of parts locally. I live in a city where their
regional parts depot is. Never had an issue with parts requirement.
Any how, there are not many parts on a water heater. What's the matter?
Can't they rob the needed parts from their inventlry of tanks? Not
having hot water is a bummer.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It would seem very unlikely that whoever Sears has doing repairs
has access to Sears inventory of new water heaters. It's not the
local plumbing supply. And good thing too. Would you want to
buy a new water heater from Sears knowing that some tech took
it apart to remove a part and give it to someone else, later hopefully
putting it back together again correctly with a new part?

[[email protected]]

On Tue, 06 Nov 2012 23:10:29 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Tue, 6 Nov 2012 06:12:10 -0800 (PST), bob haller
wrote:

My GFs sisters family bought a new sears water heater and had it
installed by sears last july. It quit working over a week ago and
sears hasnt got the parts yet, they promise AGAIN it will be fixed
by friday some parts didnt help......

Meanwhile no hot water at all

I think sears should of had the parts overnighted, and since they
have been unable to fix it they should offer a refund on the tank.
maybe 50% but perhaps more.

what do all of you think? I beleve no hot water for over a week is
unacceptable.....

and this occured in pittsburgh far from the new york disaster...

Doubt they will do anything and the warranty probably tell you that.
Yes, it is poor performance. Sears has not been Sears for a few
years. They are owned by K-Mart and even worse that way they used to
be.

Personally, I've not bought anything from Sears for years and I'd
certainly not buy a major household item.
Unless it was a major brand item - which is what Sears in Canada now
sells more of than Kenmore product.

[[email protected]]

On Wed, 07 Nov 2012 06:01:03 -0500, Sergeant Hulka
wrote:

**** like this is why I have not been in a sears store in 20 years.

When my old water heater sprung a leak, the local plumber had it
replaced 4 hours after I called him.

When mine started to ooze I went and picked up a new one, carrying it
home on the hitch-rack on the back of my PT Cruizer. Put it in the
basement and when I had a spare hour I swapped it out. Before anything
got wet.

[gregz]

bob haller wrote:
On Nov 6, 12:56 pm, George wrote:
On 11/6/2012 9:12 AM, bob haller wrote:





My GFs sisters family bought a new sears water heater and had it
installed by sears last july. It quit working over a week ago and
sears hasnt got the parts yet, they promise AGAIN it will be fixed
by friday some parts didnt help......

Meanwhile no hot water at all

I think sears should of had the parts overnighted, and since they
have been unable to fix it they should offer a refund on the tank.
maybe 50% but perhaps more.

what do all of you think? I beleve no hot water for over a week is
unacceptable.....

and this occured in pittsburgh far from the new york disaster...

I gave up on sears after this. We had a sears refrigerator and one
morning I noticed the evaporator fan had failed. I called the local
"sears part center" and they verified they had one on hand. I asked them
to hold it for me. Drove all the way to the store and they say they
don't have one. I asked the guy to check if one was at another store or
they can get one shipped in from someplace else and he told me I would
need to check around on my own. So I forget about sears forever more.

Instead of sears I called an appliance parts place that was further
away. They said they had a universal model that came with various
brackets. I drove over there and bought it then back home to install.

As far as your case likely their warranty specifies you are on your own.
So fair is whatever you can get.

Well the victim of no parts in stock live in pittsburgh pa a pretty
big town with the major parts service depot on 51st street ..ornite
fed Xtype parts delivery should be the norm for brand new tank fails
under warranty.... not repeated parts will be here in 3 days.

I quit buying anything from sears that will ever need service after
being charged twice for a furnace with air service. travel charge one
was fine but half of a 100 bucks for the tech on site to swap tool
kits is plain gouging. sears is headed to bankruptcy and liquidation
and they deserve it.

Never dealt with warranties, but when something breaks I get parts fast
from sears internet parts. I think I bought one wall oven and one stovetop
from sears, All other appliances I usually get from local hardware,
Daniels. Other discount places, but I would consider looking in lowes. I
love sears store. I shop at kmart often, but it's not my favorite store.

Long live sears.

Greg

[nestork]

The real issue here is the difference between "what's reasonable" and "what's legal".

It's true that it's far more inconvenient to go several weeks without your Sears water heater working than it is to go several weeks without your Sears lawn mower working, but Sears is in the same legal position in both cases. They don't have to put any greater priority on getting the water heater up and running any sooner than the lawn mower.

So, you can appeal to Sears, and a reasonable person would agree that you've been inconvenienced, but keep in mind that they're not obligated to do anything more or do anything differently than they would if it was your Sears lawn mower that was on the blink. The warranty reads the same in both cases.

[bob haller]

On Nov 8, 11:37*am, nestork wrote:
The real issue here is the difference between "what's reasonable" and
"what's legal".

It's true that it's far more inconvenient to go several weeks without
your Sears water heater working than it is to go several weeks without
your Sears lawn mower working, but Sears is in the same legal position
in both cases. *They don't have to put any greater priority on getting
the water heater up and running any sooner than the lawn mower.

So, you can appeal to Sears, and a reasonable person would agree that
you've been inconvenienced, but keep in mind that they're not obligated
to do anything more or do anything differently than they would if it was
your Sears lawn mower that was on the blink. *The warranty reads the
same in both cases.

--
nestork

Well it broke on a tuesday, has been well over a week, and latest
prediction is friday, thats 10 days. without hot water what happened
to over nite shipping and warranty calls come first?

I suggest I go along and talk to the actual sears store manager for
monroeville PA, this store is scheduled to close.

I want to be honest with the store manager, you didnt have parts in
stock you are short repair people adding days to calls. If you dont
give a complete refund I have a friend in the media, and Sears will be
featured, not in a good way.....

Is that what you want?

The family has a member who had a stroke and has trouble getting
around, their home bathroom has grab bars.... the realtive where they
have been showerinat has 3 flights of steps to the bathroom and no
grab bars

POOR SERVICE HACKS ME OFF! I am in the repair industry

oh the family says they will never shop at sears again and I dont
blame them.........

[Oren[_2_]]

On Thu, 8 Nov 2012 14:31:36 -0800 (PST), bob haller
wrote:

I suggest I go along and talk to the actual sears store manager for
monroeville PA, this store is scheduled to close.

Some time back, I returned a power tool to Sears. The guy at the
register told me that they had never "sold" that tool. I went ape-
**** in a polite manner, moving up to every level, promising this was
not over.

The excuse was that data had been purged from the system on the tool,
but a manager found old records.

She gave my money back, because I was about to send my bride to see
her for a firm conversation. Easier to deal with me than my bride.

[[email protected]]

On Thu, 08 Nov 2012 15:33:33 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 8 Nov 2012 14:31:36 -0800 (PST), bob haller
wrote:

I suggest I go along and talk to the actual sears store manager for
monroeville PA, this store is scheduled to close.

Some time back, I returned a power tool to Sears. The guy at the
register told me that they had never "sold" that tool. I went ape-
**** in a polite manner, moving up to every level, promising this was
not over.

The excuse was that data had been purged from the system on the tool,
but a manager found old records.

She gave my money back, because I was about to send my bride to see
her for a firm conversation. Easier to deal with me than my bride.
You got one of those too?

[Oren[_2_]]

On Thu, 08 Nov 2012 22:24:30 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 08 Nov 2012 15:33:33 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 8 Nov 2012 14:31:36 -0800 (PST), bob haller
wrote:

I suggest I go along and talk to the actual sears store manager for
monroeville PA, this store is scheduled to close.

Some time back, I returned a power tool to Sears. The guy at the
register told me that they had never "sold" that tool. I went ape-
**** in a polite manner, moving up to every level, promising this was
not over.

The excuse was that data had been purged from the system on the tool,
but a manager found old records.

She gave my money back, because I was about to send my bride to see
her for a firm conversation. Easier to deal with me than my bride.

You got one of those too?

Her superior co-workers called her the bulldog. She can change minds.

I won't go into what happened at our bank over a Cashier's check for
90 grand.

It _was_ funny to watch.

[bob haller]

On Nov 8, 11:38*pm, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 08 Nov 2012 22:24:30 -0500, wrote:
On Thu, 08 Nov 2012 15:33:33 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 8 Nov 2012 14:31:36 -0800 (PST), bob haller
wrote:

I suggest I go along and talk to the actual sears store manager for
monroeville PA, this store is scheduled to close.

Some time back, I returned a power tool to Sears. *The guy at the
register told me that they had never "sold" that tool. *I went ape-
**** in a polite manner, moving up to every level, promising this was
not over.

The excuse was that data had been purged from the system on the tool,
but a manager found old records.

She gave my money back, because I was about to send my bride to see
her for a firm conversation. Easier to deal with me than my bride.
You got one of those too?

Her superior co-workers called her the bulldog. She can change minds.

I won't go into what happened at our bank over a Cashier's check for
90 grand.

It _was_ funny to watch.

I am proud I am a effective complainer and rarely lose a issue.....

If more people complained loudly customer service would improve
dramatically.......

[Oren[_2_]]

On Fri, 9 Nov 2012 14:23:12 -0800 (PST), bob haller
wrote:

I am proud I am a effective complainer and rarely lose a issue.....

If more people complained loudly customer service would improve
dramatically.......

Just don't complain while you are upset or mad. Take a break, collect
your thoughts, relax and make an honest presentation of the facts.

I've listened to thousands and thousands of complaints. The louder a
person gets, the calmer I get. It brings down the stillness.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Fri, 09 Nov 2012 19:04:05 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Fri, 9 Nov 2012 14:23:12 -0800 (PST), bob haller
wrote:

I am proud I am a effective complainer and rarely lose a issue.....

If more people complained loudly customer service would improve
dramatically.......

Just don't complain while you are upset or mad. Take a break, collect
your thoughts, relax and make an honest presentation of the facts.

I've listened to thousands and thousands of complaints. The louder a
person gets, the calmer I get. It brings down the stillness.

Correct, there is an art to successful complaining. You have to be
calm, speak with authority, not yell and scream. Lay out the facts
and suggest what the proper resolution should be.

You have to realize that the person you are talking to probably had
nothing to do with the problem so don't take your frustration out on
them. Allow them to help you.

OTOH, it may be the person you are talking to. Don't call them a twit
until you get the resolution you want or get to a manager that can be
of help.

Smart companies realize good customer service is important and they
empower people to fix your problem. It makes for happy customers and
repeat business. Companies that don't do it do not deserve your
business.

[bob haller]

On Friday, November 9, 2012 10:04:11 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 9 Nov 2012 14:23:12 -0800 (PST), bob haller

wrote:



I am proud I am a effective complainer and rarely lose a issue.....



If more people complained loudly customer service would improve

dramatically.......



Just don't complain while you are upset or mad. Take a break, collect

your thoughts, relax and make an honest presentation of the facts.



I've listened to thousands and thousands of complaints. The louder a

person gets, the calmer I get. It brings down the stillness.

I start out friendly and very nice. ONLY when ignored do I go full bob....

As long as the person is trying to help I am very patient and nice.

Its when they ignore me that I first get their attention It begins with something a good many REFUSE to do.

Write you name, the district managers name and phone number, so when I call to complain and I will there will be no doubt that I am complaining about you.

Just this really gets their attention

[Moe DeLoughan[_3_]]

On 11/8/2012 4:31 PM, bob haller wrote:

Well it broke on a tuesday, has been well over a week, and latest
prediction is friday, thats 10 days. without hot water what happened
to over nite shipping and warranty calls come first?

I suggest I go along and talk to the actual sears store manager for
monroeville PA, this store is scheduled to close.

So the store manager will shortly be losing his or her job.

I want to be honest with the store manager, you didnt have parts in
stock you are short repair people adding days to calls. If you dont
give a complete refund I have a friend in the media, and Sears will be
featured, not in a good way.....

Since the store manager is shortly going to be unemployed, I doubt
s/he will much care.

Is that what you want?

Sears was bought out by a hedge fund guy who combined them with Kmart
into a holdings company. He has absolutely zero interest in growing
retail operations. He's taking what profits he's getting from them
(Kmart is doing extremely well) and putting it into his other
investments. He took the Craftsman and Kenmore brands and spun them
off into a separate company, so that he'll continue to hold ownership
of those valuable brands even after Sears ceases to be. In the
meantime, he's licensed the sale of those branded products to other
retailers, which further hurts Sears' bottom line.

The long and short of it is: the head honcho isn't interested in
making Sears better or keeping its dwindling customer base satisfied.
The people working under him suffer serious morale issues as a result
(not to mention knowing their jobs are gradually going away, as in the
case of the PA store manager). Some of them still strive to provide
good customer service - but if doing so costs the store money, they
will face repercussions from upper management. Others know they can
get away with providing poor customer service, so they have no guilt
about doing so.

I've got a sister in Sears management who has been with them for over
thirty years. When a customer comes to her with a complaint, she'll do
what she can, but often she can't do much more without putting her job
on the line, and that's a line she won't cross. In those cases, the
customer usually threatens to contact the head office in Chicago. She
encourages them to do so. You may want to try that, because the store
manager may not have the power (anymore) to make things right.

[[email protected][_2_]]

On Nov 12, 6:56*pm, Moe DeLoughan wrote:
On 11/8/2012 4:31 PM, bob haller wrote:



Well it broke on a tuesday, has been well over a week, and latest
prediction is friday, thats 10 days. without hot water what happened
to over nite shipping and warranty calls come first?

I suggest I go along and talk to the actual sears store manager for
monroeville PA, this store is scheduled to close.

So the store manager will shortly be losing his or her job.



I want to be honest with the store manager, you didnt have parts in
stock you are short repair people adding days to calls. If you dont
give a complete refund I have a friend in the media, and Sears will be
featured, not in a good way.....

Since the store manager is shortly going to be unemployed, I doubt
s/he will much care.

Is that what you want?

Sears was bought out by a hedge fund guy who combined them with Kmart
into a holdings company. He has absolutely zero interest in growing
retail operations. He's taking what profits he's getting from them
(Kmart is doing extremely well)

Agree with most of what you're saying with a coupe of
exceptions. I don't believe Kmart is doing extremely well.
It's not doing very well at all. It's just that it's been somewhat
profitable, while Sears is far worse.

And it's not entirely owned by the hedge fund. It's
publically traded and the hedge fund holds just over
50% of it, they do control how it's run.

The Kmart here is a real mess. I rarely go there, even
though it's close. They always have long lines at the
checkouts. I was there last Xmas and the cash register
system, which the cashier told me was 25 years old,
was having serious problems. The system sure looked
at least 25 years old. After waiting in line for 10 mins,
they finally decided they had to reboot the whole system.
And get this. They then have to bring up each register
one at a time, a process that we were told would take
at least a half hour. And then I had to suggest to the
manager, "How about if you give us bags to put our
stuff in and we can leave it and come back later to
pay for it?" Once I did that, most people took the
leave the bag option. I've seen the cash register
problem on a couple other occasions too.

I hate Kmart soooo very much!





and putting it into his other
investments. He took the Craftsman and Kenmore brands and spun them
off into a separate company, so that he'll continue to hold ownership
of those valuable brands even after Sears ceases to be. In the
meantime, he's licensed the sale of those branded products to other
retailers, which further hurts Sears' bottom line.

The long and short of it is: the head honcho isn't interested in
making Sears better or keeping its dwindling customer base satisfied.
The people working under him suffer serious morale issues as a result
(not to mention knowing their jobs are gradually going away, as in the
case of the PA store manager). Some of them still strive to provide
good customer service - but if doing so costs the store money, they
will face repercussions from upper management. Others know they can
get away with providing poor customer service, so they have no guilt
about doing so.

I've got a sister in Sears management who has been with them for over
thirty years. When a customer comes to her with a complaint, she'll do
what she can, but often she can't do much more without putting her job
on the line, and that's a line she won't cross. In those cases, the
customer usually threatens to contact the head office in Chicago. She
encourages them to do so. You may want to try that, because the store
manager may not have the power (anymore) to make things right.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Tue, 13 Nov 2012 09:22:56 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:



The Kmart here is a real mess. I rarely go there, even
though it's close. They always have long lines at the
checkouts.

The K Mart in our town never has long lines. They can barely get
enough people in there to make a short line. The only reason I ever
go there is to buy something I know is "name brand" quality, not cheap
China crap that most of their merchandise is. The advantage is, the
Wal Mart parking lot will be mobbed, the K Mart lot and store is empty
so quick in and out.

[Josh[_5_]]

On Tue, 13 Nov 2012 22:34:49 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Tue, 13 Nov 2012 09:22:56 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:



The Kmart here is a real mess. I rarely go there, even
though it's close. They always have long lines at the
checkouts.

The K Mart in our town never has long lines. They can barely get
enough people in there to make a short line. The only reason I ever
go there is to buy something I know is "name brand" quality, not cheap
China crap that most of their merchandise is. The advantage is, the
Wal Mart parking lot will be mobbed, the K Mart lot and store is empty
so quick in and out.

I moved from the east coast to a Northern California town 19 years ago
that had a 5-6 year old Walmart and a brand new Kmart across the
street. Having grown up with Kmart (Walmart hadn't gotten to New
England at the time), I of course tried going there. It was big and
bright and seemed like there were never more than 20 people in the
store...and always 10 people in the checkout lines, with never more
than 2 open. I found that I could get in and out of Walmart much
quicker, so went there. Apparently so did everyone else, as the Kmart
is long gone, replaced by Kohls (which is doing well).

Of course, back east, it was the Caldor (yes, dating myself) nearby
that was ultra slow (it seemed like every clothing item required them
to enter at least 2 15 digit numbers by hand, plus the time to
de-hangar and fold), with Kmart being the faster option...

Josh

[gregz]

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Tue, 13 Nov 2012 09:22:56 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:



The Kmart here is a real mess. I rarely go there, even
though it's close. They always have long lines at the
checkouts.

The K Mart in our town never has long lines. They can barely get
enough people in there to make a short line. The only reason I ever
go there is to buy something I know is "name brand" quality, not cheap
China crap that most of their merchandise is. The advantage is, the
Wal Mart parking lot will be mobbed, the K Mart lot and store is empty
so quick in and out.


I get my prescriptions at kmart, as well as most of my clothing. Never
really crowded. Also often get pizza in the store store. I don't think
there is any food at my walmart. I learned to like the old walmart, and
quickly learned to hate the new.
BUT, I bought a 120 ahr battery at walmart, and equivalent at kmart cost
$140 vs walmart $90.

Greg

[gregz]

gregz wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Tue, 13 Nov 2012 09:22:56 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:



The Kmart here is a real mess. I rarely go there, even
though it's close. They always have long lines at the
checkouts.

The K Mart in our town never has long lines. They can barely get
enough people in there to make a short line. The only reason I ever
go there is to buy something I know is "name brand" quality, not cheap
China crap that most of their merchandise is. The advantage is, the
Wal Mart parking lot will be mobbed, the K Mart lot and store is empty
so quick in and out.


I get my prescriptions at kmart, as well as most of my clothing. Never
really crowded. Also often get pizza in the store store. I don't think
there is any food at my walmart. I learned to like the old walmart, and
quickly learned to hate the new.
BUT, I bought a 120 ahr battery at walmart, and equivalent at kmart cost
$140 vs walmart $90.

Greg

I hate walmart inconsistency. They carry stuff. I shopped at walmart and
all they had were gas containers. Kmart had water, diesel, kerosene, gas.
Stuff you should carry, vs stuff they want to carry.

Greg

[[email protected]]

On Thu, 15 Nov 2012 01:17:21 +0000 (UTC), gregz
wrote:

gregz wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Tue, 13 Nov 2012 09:22:56 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:



The Kmart here is a real mess. I rarely go there, even
though it's close. They always have long lines at the
checkouts.

The K Mart in our town never has long lines. They can barely get
enough people in there to make a short line. The only reason I ever
go there is to buy something I know is "name brand" quality, not cheap
China crap that most of their merchandise is. The advantage is, the
Wal Mart parking lot will be mobbed, the K Mart lot and store is empty
so quick in and out.


I get my prescriptions at kmart, as well as most of my clothing. Never
really crowded. Also often get pizza in the store store. I don't think
there is any food at my walmart. I learned to like the old walmart, and
quickly learned to hate the new.
BUT, I bought a 120 ahr battery at walmart, and equivalent at kmart cost
$140 vs walmart $90.

Greg

I hate walmart inconsistency. They carry stuff. I shopped at walmart and
all they had were gas containers. Kmart had water, diesel, kerosene, gas.
Stuff you should carry, vs stuff they want to carry.

Greg
What I dislike most about the big "W" is they will target a product
and guarantee nobody will undersell them - so soon the only place to
buy it is at the big "W". A short time later, they find they are
loosing too much money on it - or the supplier finds they cannot
afford to supply it at the price the big "W" will pay them for it - so
it is no longer supplied - and it is no longer available in the
genereal markrtplace.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 20:27:34 -0500, wrote:



What I dislike most about the big "W" is they will target a product
and guarantee nobody will undersell them - so soon the only place to
buy it is at the big "W". A short time later, they find they are
loosing too much money on it - or the supplier finds they cannot
afford to supply it at the price the big "W" will pay them for it - so
it is no longer supplied - and it is no longer available in the
genereal markrtplace.

The suppliers make dumb decisions too.
Vlasic pickles
http://www.fastcompany.com/47593/wal-mart-you-dont-know

versus Snapper mower
http://www.fastcompany.com/54763/man...id-no-wal-mart

[[email protected]]

On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 22:28:43 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 20:27:34 -0500, wrote:



What I dislike most about the big "W" is they will target a product
and guarantee nobody will undersell them - so soon the only place to
buy it is at the big "W". A short time later, they find they are
loosing too much money on it - or the supplier finds they cannot
afford to supply it at the price the big "W" will pay them for it - so
it is no longer supplied - and it is no longer available in the
genereal markrtplace.

The suppliers make dumb decisions too.
Vlasic pickles
http://www.fastcompany.com/47593/wal-mart-you-dont-know

versus Snapper mower
http://www.fastcompany.com/54763/man...id-no-wal-mart
Yup, but when Walmart has effectively killed your market, it's hard
to say no.

Everyone's used to buying, say, Vlasic pickles for $.79 when the
realistic price is $139, and it's hard to build a market outside of
Walmart at even a bargan $129 - what's a company going to do???

[bob haller]

On Nov 14, 10:57*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 22:28:43 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 20:27:34 -0500, wrote:

*What I dislike most about the big "W" is they will target a product
and guarantee nobody will undersell them - so soon the only place to
buy it is at the big "W". A short time later, they find they are
loosing too much money on it - or the supplier finds they cannot
afford to supply it at the price the big "W" will pay them for it - so
it is no longer supplied - and it is no longer available in the
genereal markrtplace.

The suppliers make dumb decisions too.
Vlasic pickles
http://www.fastcompany.com/47593/wal-mart-you-dont-know

versus Snapper mower
http://www.fastcompany.com/54763/man...id-no-wal-mart

* Yup, but when Walmart has effectively killed your market, it's hard
to say no.

Everyone's used to buying, say, Vlasic pickles for *$.79 *when the
realistic price is $139, and it's hard to build a market outside of
Walmart at even a bargan $129 - what's a company going to do???

1/3 of all suppliers to wall mart go bankrupt in a matter of years.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 22:57:44 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 22:28:43 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 20:27:34 -0500, wrote:



What I dislike most about the big "W" is they will target a product
and guarantee nobody will undersell them - so soon the only place to
buy it is at the big "W". A short time later, they find they are
loosing too much money on it - or the supplier finds they cannot
afford to supply it at the price the big "W" will pay them for it - so
it is no longer supplied - and it is no longer available in the
genereal markrtplace.

The suppliers make dumb decisions too.
Vlasic pickles
http://www.fastcompany.com/47593/wal-mart-you-dont-know

versus Snapper mower
http://www.fastcompany.com/54763/man...id-no-wal-mart
Yup, but when Walmart has effectively killed your market, it's hard
to say no.

Everyone's used to buying, say, Vlasic pickles for $.79 when the
realistic price is $139, and it's hard to build a market outside of
Walmart at even a bargan $129 - what's a company going to do???


I don't blame Wal Mart, all Vlasic had to do was say "no" and refuse
to sell at a lower price.

A few years back, one of our biggest customers was Frigidaire. They
use similar tactics on their suppliers. The parts we made for them
were seasonal. After year one, we were asked for a 10% price
reduction. Their logic was that over the year, we found better and
faster ways to make their parts. There is some truth to that and we
wee able to reduce the price and maintain profits. A couple of years
later, they sent a letter and asked for a 25% reduction, a rebate for
the previous year, and longer terms. We said "no thanks, where do you
want the tools sent?".

One of our competitors happily snatched the job from us at the reduced
price. Years later, we are still making a profit, they filed
bankruptcy. The Frigidaire business is long gone as they moved the
plant to Mexico the following year.

More recently, we make a product for a customer that potentially sells
to Wal Mart. We sell it for 1.10. WM said they would buy it at 85¢.
Again, we said no. Would have been a big order, but with no profit
and we would have had to skimp on material.

[[email protected][_2_]]

On Nov 13, 11:19*pm, Josh wrote:
On Tue, 13 Nov 2012 22:34:49 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Tue, 13 Nov 2012 09:22:56 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

The Kmart here is a real mess. *I rarely go there, even
though it's close. * They always have long lines at the
checkouts.

The K Mart in our town never has long lines. *They can barely get
enough people in there to make a short line. *The only reason I ever
go there is to buy something I know is "name brand" quality, not cheap
China crap that most of their merchandise is. *The advantage is, the
Wal Mart parking lot will be mobbed, the K Mart lot and store is empty
so quick in and out.

I moved from the east coast to a Northern California town 19 years ago
that had a 5-6 year old Walmart and a brand new Kmart across the
street. *Having grown up with Kmart (Walmart hadn't gotten to New
England at the time), I of course tried going there. *It was big and
bright and seemed like there were never more than 20 people in the
store...and always 10 people in the checkout lines, with never more
than 2 open.

That's what I was talking about too.
It's not that the Kmar here is real busy either.
It's just that they have 10 checkout lines and
only 2 or three are open and they have lines.



*I found that I could get in and out of Walmart much
quicker, so went there. *Apparently so did everyone else, as the Kmart
is long gone, replaced by Kohls (which is doing well).

Somehow this one here still survives.

[Jim Elbrecht]

bob haller wrote:

-snip-

1/3 of all suppliers to wall mart go bankrupt in a matter of years.

Either 2/3 make more money than they ever dreamed of-- or that's just
a bull**** number you pulled out of thin air.

I do note that you don't say how many years-- so perhaps 90% of your
1/3 haven't gone bankrupt yet, but they will? [and it will be
Walmart's fault?]

Walmart may be a bully, but if they were driving one in 3 businesses
to bankruptcy, then why would any business sign on with them? And
if they did-- isn't that what the whole free market is about?

Jim

[[email protected][_2_]]

On Nov 15, 5:56*am, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 22:57:44 -0500, wrote:
On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 22:28:43 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 20:27:34 -0500, wrote:

*What I dislike most about the big "W" is they will target a product
and guarantee nobody will undersell them - so soon the only place to
buy it is at the big "W". A short time later, they find they are
loosing too much money on it - or the supplier finds they cannot
afford to supply it at the price the big "W" will pay them for it - so
it is no longer supplied - and it is no longer available in the
genereal markrtplace.

The suppliers make dumb decisions too.
Vlasic pickles
http://www.fastcompany.com/47593/wal-mart-you-dont-know

versus Snapper mower
http://www.fastcompany.com/54763/man...id-no-wal-mart
*Yup, but when Walmart has effectively killed your market, it's hard
to say no.

Everyone's used to buying, say, Vlasic pickles for *$.79 *when the
realistic price is $139, and it's hard to build a market outside of
Walmart at even a bargan $129 - what's a company going to do???

I don't blame Wal Mart, all Vlasic had to do was say "no" and refuse
to sell at a lower price.

Also right in the article it says no one says the gallon
pickle issue was a critical factor in the bankruptcy.

I found this from a story at the time of their bankruptcy
filing:

"They were dealt a difficult hand," said Mitchell Pinheiro, an analyst
at Janney Montgomery Scott who has a "hold" rating on Vlasic stock.

"They were saddled with $500 million debt, which didn't seem all that
onerous at the time [Vlasic was spun off], given cash flow. But the
cash flow was deteriorating and the need of the brands was greater
than first thought."

Vlasic listed $458.3 million in assets and $649.9 million in debts in
its Chapter 11 petition filed in U.S. District Court in Wilmington."

And the story starts off implying Walmart is responsible
for clothing manufacturing going overseas. We all know
that trend was already well under way as far back as the
60's, with places like New England having them close
right and left. That was long before Walmart was a factor.
Digital Eqpt, the computer company, started in an old
abandoned textile mill in the 60's. I see this whole thing as more
of an evolving world economy, than the evil of one giant retailer.








A few years back, one of our biggest customers was Frigidaire. *They
use similar tactics on their suppliers. *The parts we made for them
were seasonal. *After year one, we were asked for a 10% price
reduction. *Their logic was that over the year, we found better and
faster ways to make their parts. *There is some truth to that and we
wee able to reduce the price and maintain profits. A couple of years
later, they sent a letter and asked for a 25% reduction, a rebate for
the previous year, and longer terms. *We said "no thanks, where do you
want the tools sent?".

One of our competitors happily snatched the job from us at the reduced
price. *Years later, we are still making a profit, they filed
bankruptcy. *The Frigidaire business is long gone as they moved the
plant to Mexico the following year.

More recently, we make a product for a customer that potentially sells
to Wal Mart. *We sell it for 1.10. *WM said they would buy it at 85�.
Again, we said no. *Would have been a big order, but with no profit
and we would *have had to skimp on material.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -