[Robert Macy[_2_]]

This is crazy!

In our home we moved into there was left over 2.5 gal of Dunne Edwards
Exterior/Interior flat the construction peole used everywhere on the
interior of our home. Needless to say, it has been useful for
touching up areas after joint compounding and smoothing out their
'flaws'. This paint blends in the middle of large surface areas
invisibly [remember, home was not lived in, but two year old spray
paint job] To do touch up I dipped some paint into a cut off 2 liter
soda bottle bottom and painted away using a pre-rinsed [damp] brush
[selecting any of several bristle brushes]. When finished, simply ran
water on brush until clear, then would use liquid handsoap, maybe 3
times. Rinse, straighten the bristles out and set down for the next
time.

All, went well, until I went to HD and got a gallon of self-primer
Glidden custom color matching - very good color match. This paint was
for shelving, the guy recommended semi, because it was harder and
better for shelving. I insisted on flat. They were out of flat, but
since cost would be $26/gal for semi, and only $19/gal for flat, I was
happy when he gave me semi for $19.

Ok. used the paint on shelving boards, again using 'damp' brush, first
coat over raw particle board [also from HD] the paint soaked up into
the wood, got thick, well expected that, but went on well. Didn't like
the brush strokes left [Dunne Edwards didn't leave brush strokes] but
shelving - who cares? Went to clean up the brush, and the first thing
I noticed was that it was full of 'cottage cheese' crumbs! sand sized
crumbs in the brush, solid. Ok clean up, until clear. Wash three
times with soap solution until really clean, straighten bristles and
set out for the next day.

The next day the brush was hard as a rock! What?! With more water
and 'special' cleaning solvent I got the brush to become flexible
enough for the next days work.

Now, the second coat, which to me should not take as much paint, DID
take paint! and worse, started drying again way too fast. We're
talking lay down a loaded brush line across the shelf and stroke into
the painted area and before you can move to the next brush width, the
paint gets 'gummy' and does not feather the brush strokes in well at
all. [Note, I used to have similar problems with cheap latex paint
from local discount outlet back in 70;s when latex first came out, but
solved the problem by simply spraying gently with Easy Off Window
Cleaner. You could even go back more than six hours later, spray, and
touch up paint - like brush out that run forming you didn't notice
earlier! But, alas, Easy Off discontinued this miracle product.]

Now cleaned up brush and its getting worse and worse! To me the brush
is ruined, full of sludge, mutliple bristles are being 'glued'
together by the crumbly paint. What the heck is going on?

Actually more questions than simply how to clean a brush:
1. how to properly clean a brush
2. is there something I can add to latex to slow down the drying time.
I think 30 seconds is a bit too short.
3. is there something that removes/prevents that sludge build up in
the brush?

With Dunne Edwards, I had no reluctance to touch up small areas any
time I saw one. But with this Glidden product and ruining brushes; I'm
hesitant to take on small tasks and am forced to plan, waiting until I
accumulate enough to do the work, throw the brush away, and hope no
run forms.

Any help, knowledgeable people?

[Tony Hwang]

Robert Macy wrote:
This is crazy!

In our home we moved into there was left over 2.5 gal of Dunne Edwards
Exterior/Interior flat the construction peole used everywhere on the
interior of our home. Needless to say, it has been useful for
touching up areas after joint compounding and smoothing out their
'flaws'. This paint blends in the middle of large surface areas
invisibly [remember, home was not lived in, but two year old spray
paint job] To do touch up I dipped some paint into a cut off 2 liter
soda bottle bottom and painted away using a pre-rinsed [damp] brush
[selecting any of several bristle brushes]. When finished, simply ran
water on brush until clear, then would use liquid handsoap, maybe 3
times. Rinse, straighten the bristles out and set down for the next
time.

All, went well, until I went to HD and got a gallon of self-primer
Glidden custom color matching - very good color match. This paint was
for shelving, the guy recommended semi, because it was harder and
better for shelving. I insisted on flat. They were out of flat, but
since cost would be $26/gal for semi, and only $19/gal for flat, I was
happy when he gave me semi for $19.

Ok. used the paint on shelving boards, again using 'damp' brush, first
coat over raw particle board [also from HD] the paint soaked up into
the wood, got thick, well expected that, but went on well. Didn't like
the brush strokes left [Dunne Edwards didn't leave brush strokes] but
shelving - who cares? Went to clean up the brush, and the first thing
I noticed was that it was full of 'cottage cheese' crumbs! sand sized
crumbs in the brush, solid. Ok clean up, until clear. Wash three
times with soap solution until really clean, straighten bristles and
set out for the next day.

The next day the brush was hard as a rock! What?! With more water
and 'special' cleaning solvent I got the brush to become flexible
enough for the next days work.

Now, the second coat, which to me should not take as much paint, DID
take paint! and worse, started drying again way too fast. We're
talking lay down a loaded brush line across the shelf and stroke into
the painted area and before you can move to the next brush width, the
paint gets 'gummy' and does not feather the brush strokes in well at
all. [Note, I used to have similar problems with cheap latex paint
from local discount outlet back in 70;s when latex first came out, but
solved the problem by simply spraying gently with Easy Off Window
Cleaner. You could even go back more than six hours later, spray, and
touch up paint - like brush out that run forming you didn't notice
earlier! But, alas, Easy Off discontinued this miracle product.]

Now cleaned up brush and its getting worse and worse! To me the brush
is ruined, full of sludge, mutliple bristles are being 'glued'
together by the crumbly paint. What the heck is going on?

Actually more questions than simply how to clean a brush:
1. how to properly clean a brush
2. is there something I can add to latex to slow down the drying time.
I think 30 seconds is a bit too short.
3. is there something that removes/prevents that sludge build up in
the brush?

With Dunne Edwards, I had no reluctance to touch up small areas any
time I saw one. But with this Glidden product and ruining brushes; I'm
hesitant to take on small tasks and am forced to plan, waiting until I
accumulate enough to do the work, throw the brush away, and hope no
run forms.

Any help, knowledgeable people?

Hi,
I am not a fan of painting. I never used brush on a particle boards.
Roller works better. I also use brush comb. Also I often use pads for
touching up. I watched pros how they clean their brushes which gave some
pointers.

[DerbyDad03]

On Oct 3, 10:31*am, Robert Macy wrote:
This is crazy!

In our home we moved into there was left over 2.5 gal of Dunne Edwards
Exterior/Interior flat the construction peole used everywhere on the
interior of our home. *Needless to say, it has been useful for
touching up areas after joint compounding and smoothing out their
'flaws'. This paint blends in the middle of large surface areas
invisibly [remember, home was not lived in, but two year old spray
paint job] *To do touch up I dipped some paint into a cut off 2 liter
soda bottle bottom and painted away using a pre-rinsed [damp] brush
[selecting any of several bristle brushes]. When finished, simply ran
water on brush until clear, then would use liquid handsoap, maybe 3
times. Rinse, straighten the bristles out and set down for the next
time.

All, went well, until I went to HD and got a gallon of self-primer
Glidden custom color matching - very good color match. This paint was
for shelving, the guy recommended semi, because it was harder and
better for shelving. I insisted on flat. They were out of flat, but
since cost would be $26/gal for semi, and only $19/gal for flat, I was
happy when he gave me semi for $19.

Ok. used the paint on shelving boards, again using 'damp' brush, first
coat over raw particle board [also from HD] the paint soaked up into
the wood, got thick, well expected that, but went on well. Didn't like
the brush strokes left [Dunne Edwards didn't leave brush strokes] but
shelving - who cares? *Went to clean up the brush, and the first thing
I noticed was that it was full of 'cottage cheese' crumbs! sand sized
crumbs in the brush, solid. *Ok clean up, until clear. Wash three
times with soap solution until really clean, straighten bristles and
set out for the next day.

The next day the brush was hard as a rock! *What?! *With more water
and 'special' cleaning solvent I got the brush to become flexible
enough for the next days work.

Now, the second coat, which to me should not take as much paint, DID
take paint! and worse, started drying again way too fast. *We're
talking lay down a loaded brush line across the shelf and stroke into
the painted area and before you can move to the next brush width, the
paint gets 'gummy' and does not feather the brush strokes in well at
all. [Note, I used to have similar problems with cheap latex paint
from local discount outlet back in 70;s when latex first came out, but
solved the problem by simply spraying gently with Easy Off Window
Cleaner. You could even go back more than six hours later, spray, and
touch up paint - like brush out that run forming you didn't notice
earlier! But, alas, Easy Off discontinued this miracle product.]

Now cleaned up brush and its getting worse and worse! To me the brush
is ruined, full of sludge, mutliple bristles are being 'glued'
together by the crumbly paint. *What the heck is going on?

Actually more questions than simply how to clean a brush:
1. how to properly clean a brush
2. is there something I can add to latex to slow down the drying time.
I think 30 seconds is a bit too short.
3. is there something that removes/prevents that sludge build up in
the brush?

With Dunne Edwards, I had no reluctance to touch up small areas any
time I saw one. But with this Glidden product and ruining brushes; I'm
hesitant to take on small tasks and am forced to plan, waiting until I
accumulate enough to do the work, throw the brush away, and hope no
run forms.

Any help, knowledgeable people?

Regardless of what brand of paint I use, I always use the same method
for cleaning - assuming it's a soap and water clean-up.

It starts with warm water and Dawn dish soap.

Actually I should say it starts with a decent brush. I been a fan of
the Purdy line of brushes available from the Home Depot. Most of the
ones I've been using for years have the original cardboard sleeve. It
is recommended that the brushes be stored in the original cardboard
sleeve so that the shape is held constant as they dry. I built a "nail
board" in my shop and the brushes are wrapped and hung immediately
after washing. OK, immediately after being shake-dried.

I have a 4' length of garden hose with a spray nozzle that I keep by
my utility sink. It's great for washing coolers, buckets, dogs and
yes, paint brushes. I blast them with the spray nozzle set on jet to
get the paint out from deep within the bristles. If blasting doesn't
get it all out because some of it has dried, I rest the bristles on
the center divider of the sink and scrub them with a nail brush. I'll
even use my fingernails to scrap paint off of the bristles on the
outside of the brush if need be. You have to have a quality brush if
you expect it to stand up to this kind of abuse without the bristles
falling out or getting all bent out of shape.

Once I am satisfied that the brush is clean, I give it few sharp
shakes to get most of the water out, reshape the bristles by hand,
wrap it up in it's cardboard sleeve and hang it on it's nail. Other
than the handle, I have some brushes that you would think are brand
new if judged solely by the bristles.

I know my time consuming method works because I've seen the condition
of the same brand of brushes when my wife or son borrows one and then
"cleans" it. I've thrown away brushes, or saved them for junk jobs,
after they've ruined them by cleaning them improperly.

On the rare occasions when a brush I've cleaned is a little stiff when
I open the cardboard, it only because the bristles are slightly stuck
together and a simple flexing of the bristles softens them up.

[Robert Macy[_2_]]

On Oct 3, 7:45*am, Tony Hwang wrote:
touching up. I watched pros how they clean their brushes which gave some
pointers.

I used to work for a professional house painter, back when a brush was
FAST! During a job, he simply stored any brush in the freezer
overnight and only cleaned once when done. His brushes were HEAVY
when loaded with paint and cost in today's dollars $100+ but he could
paint a whole house one coat in one day, then do the second coat the
next day. with a lot less prep required than for spraying.

Of course he was a 'true' painter - covered in paint! As he watched
me dip my brush, wipe the brush, and then paint and paint a small
area, he used to laugh at me and ask, "Why don't you paint the house
just once?" and "Why do you put the paint back in the bucket and not
up on the house?" All good advice actually. His fast technique was to
dip his brush [no wipe off excess]. draw an X on a spot, and feather
in with a single stroke, and move on. Three strokes to do about one
square foot, as he moved along the house. hmmm 2500 sqft as slow as
10 seconds a sqft, comes to 4 hours. seems about right, whole house
one day. He had ME do the tedious trim.

[Norminn]

clipped

With Dunne Edwards, I had no reluctance to touch up small areas any
time I saw one. But with this Glidden product and ruining brushes; I'm
hesitant to take on small tasks and am forced to plan, waiting until I
accumulate enough to do the work, throw the brush away, and hope no
run forms.

Any help, knowledgeable people?


When I clean brushes, I squeeze out as much paint as I can into
newspaper....squoosh it, stand on it. Then I run warmish/tepid water
onto/into the bristles....squoosh bristles on bottom of sink under
running water. Then I work Dawn into the bases of the bristles and let
it soak for an hour or two....flex bristles just enough to work the Dawn
as far as possible into the base. Then I rinse and rinse and rinse,
parting the bristles and running water through entirely. Finish off
with hot water, a shake or two and HANG the brush to dry after molding
the hot bristles into shape.


With your mess, as a last resort, I'd use some semi-paste paint remover,
work it in as above, remove and wash with mineral spirits. It may puff
up poly bristles but the brush may still be good enough for the junk
paint yer' using ) I'll wait until all-in-one primer/paint has been
around 20 years or so, but I'll be dead by then so what's the use )

I use semi alkyd paint for kitchen, bath, trim, doors and any surface
that takes some wear. Actually easier (for me) to use a good bristle
brush and clean it properly. If I'm using crap paint (leftover flat
latex tinted with hobby acryllic tube paint) I use a chip brush or small
sprayer for odd little craft projects. Otherwise, it is Ben Moore. I
tried Behr semi once and found it to be total garbage for coverage.
Painting with Sher Williams semi alkyd exterior is almost as good as
sex....I hope my husband doesn't read this )

Your hand soap might have had something to do with the results.

[Douglas C. Neidermeyer]

On 10/3/12 10:31 AM, Robert Macy wrote:
This is crazy!

In our home we moved into there was left over 2.5 gal of Dunne Edwards
Exterior/Interior flat the construction peole used everywhere on the
interior of our home. Needless to say, it has been useful for
touching up areas after joint compounding and smoothing out their
'flaws'. This paint blends in the middle of large surface areas
invisibly [remember, home was not lived in, but two year old spray
paint job] To do touch up I dipped some paint into a cut off 2 liter
soda bottle bottom and painted away using a pre-rinsed [damp] brush
[selecting any of several bristle brushes]. When finished, simply ran
water on brush until clear, then would use liquid handsoap, maybe 3
times. Rinse, straighten the bristles out and set down for the next
time.

All, went well, until I went to HD and got a gallon of self-primer
Glidden custom color matching - very good color match. This paint was
for shelving, the guy recommended semi, because it was harder and
better for shelving. I insisted on flat. They were out of flat, but
since cost would be $26/gal for semi, and only $19/gal for flat, I was
happy when he gave me semi for $19.

Ok. used the paint on shelving boards, again using 'damp' brush, first
coat over raw particle board [also from HD] the paint soaked up into
the wood, got thick, well expected that, but went on well. Didn't like
the brush strokes left [Dunne Edwards didn't leave brush strokes] but
shelving - who cares? Went to clean up the brush, and the first thing
I noticed was that it was full of 'cottage cheese' crumbs! sand sized
crumbs in the brush, solid. Ok clean up, until clear. Wash three
times with soap solution until really clean, straighten bristles and
set out for the next day.

The next day the brush was hard as a rock! What?! With more water
and 'special' cleaning solvent I got the brush to become flexible
enough for the next days work.

Now, the second coat, which to me should not take as much paint, DID
take paint! and worse, started drying again way too fast. We're
talking lay down a loaded brush line across the shelf and stroke into
the painted area and before you can move to the next brush width, the
paint gets 'gummy' and does not feather the brush strokes in well at
all. [Note, I used to have similar problems with cheap latex paint
from local discount outlet back in 70;s when latex first came out, but
solved the problem by simply spraying gently with Easy Off Window
Cleaner. You could even go back more than six hours later, spray, and
touch up paint - like brush out that run forming you didn't notice
earlier! But, alas, Easy Off discontinued this miracle product.]

Now cleaned up brush and its getting worse and worse! To me the brush
is ruined, full of sludge, mutliple bristles are being 'glued'
together by the crumbly paint. What the heck is going on?

Actually more questions than simply how to clean a brush:
1. how to properly clean a brush
2. is there something I can add to latex to slow down the drying time.
I think 30 seconds is a bit too short.
3. is there something that removes/prevents that sludge build up in
the brush?

With Dunne Edwards, I had no reluctance to touch up small areas any
time I saw one. But with this Glidden product and ruining brushes; I'm
hesitant to take on small tasks and am forced to plan, waiting until I
accumulate enough to do the work, throw the brush away, and hope no
run forms.

Any help, knowledgeable people?


Next post: clarity, brevity, focus ;-)

--
You can observe a lot just by watching.
---Yogi Berra

[Vic Smith]

On Wed, 03 Oct 2012 12:18:36 -0400, "Douglas C. Neidermeyer"
wrote:

On 10/3/12 10:31 AM, Robert Macy wrote:
This is crazy!


Any help, knowledgeable people?


Next post: clarity, brevity, focus ;-)

Yeah, but crazy.
Just throw away the junk paint.
There's no mystery here, and a 5-year-old can clean a paintbrush.
If the paint didn't dry on it.

[dpb]

On 10/3/2012 9:31 AM, Robert Macy wrote:
....

With Dunne Edwards, I had no reluctance to touch up small areas any
time I saw one. But with this Glidden product and ruining brushes; I'm
hesitant to take on small tasks and am forced to plan, waiting until I
accumulate enough to do the work, throw the brush away, and hope no
run forms.

Any help, knowledgeable people?

I've never had any problem w/ Glidden paints in the past but I've not
used any of the primer/finish products from any vendor, either, so I've
no idea whether that might have some bearing...

I can't fathom why one can't simply clean a brush unless you're using
something that is reacting unfavorably either as part of the
cleaning/prep work or in the cleaning itself...

I'd suggest a consultation w/ the Glidden rep's on your symptoms...

--

[nestork]

Robert:

I think I found out why the Easy Off window cleaner worked well for touching up dry paint, and I've got a guess as to what that "cottage cheese" stuff was.
__________________________________________________ _______________

1. What was in that window cleaner that made it work well on latex paint?

I think Easy Off Window Cleaner is still available as Easy Off Glass Cleaner. I think they just changed the name.

I downloaded the MSDS sheet for Easy Off GLASS Cleaner (rather than Easy Off Window Cleaner):

http://www.rbnainfo.com/MSDS/US/Prof...US-English.pdf

and it's got a solvent commonly called PnB in it. The MSDS sheet says it has 2.5 to 10 percent PnB in it, 10 to 20 percent ethyl alcohol and the rest would be water (which doesn't have to be listed on the MSDS because it's not a potential safety hazard).

That MSDS sheet calls one of the constituents of the glass cleaner "2-Propanol, 1-butoxy-", but it also gives it's CAS number as 5131-66-8, and if you simply Google CAS 5131-66-8 you find out that it's a common industrial solvent called propylene glycol n-butyl ether, or PnB for short.

5131-66-8 | CAS DataBase

(There are different chemical naming conventions so a chemical can be called many different names, so the CAS system was developed to assign a numerical code to each chemical so that different kinds of scientists that use different naming conventions can all talk about the same chemical by just specifying it's Chemical Assay System, or CAS number. Google the CAS number and you find all of that chemical's aliases.)

All of the major chemical companies make PnB and sell it under their own trade names. Dow has Dowanol, Arco has Arcosol, BASF has Propasol, etc. If you can't find Easy Off GLASS Cleaner, then look under "Chemicals" in your yellow pages phone directory and phone around to find out who sells PnB in your area, and who they sell it to. The company that purchases it will hopefully give you some if you toss a $10 bill in that company's Christmas Party Fund. According to Google, Wal-Mart and Staples sell Easy Off Glass Cleaner.

The PnB is important because PnB is also used as a coalescing solvent in latex paints.

http://msdssearch.dow.com/PublishedL...romPage=GetDoc

So, spraying some PnB dissolved in water on dried latex paint would soften the paint, and allow it to self level again as the PnB and water evaporated.

(read the PS below to find out what PnB (or any coalescing solvent) does in a latex paint)

__________________________________________________ ____________

2. What was that cottage cheeze stuff?

Next time, don't use any detergent when washing out your brush. What I'm thinking is that those blobs of cottage cheeze were the coalescing solvent in your primer/paint mixing with the detergent you used to clean the brush with.

Latex paints have water soluble coalescing solvents in them, and detergents are also soluble in water. Both are soluble in water only because one end of the solvent or detergent molecule is polar and is attracted to polar water molecules.

What I'm thinking is that the water soluble ends of the solvent molecules were attracted to the water soluble ends of the detergent molecules and the result was something that had the NON-water soluble ends of those molecules sticking out on both sides, thereby making stuff that was insoluble in water.

Maybe try buying a new (but inexpensive) paint brush (with no cottage cheeze in it to begin with) and paint something with that same primer/paint, and then wash the brush out thoroughly without using any detergent.

(I'm also presuming that this was softened water from your city's water supply system and not hard water from a well that you were using to clean the brush.)

__________________________________________________ _____________

PS: Why do you need an industrial solvent in latex paint?

Welcome to Latex Paint 101:
Latex paints don't have any rubber tree sap in them.
Latex paints are a SLURRY (solids suspended in liquid) of tiny hard particles of clear plastic (called "binder resins"), coloured solid particles (called "coloured pigments") and white, clear or transluscent solid particles (called "extender pigments") suspended in a solution of a low volatility solvent (called a "coalescing solvent" or "coalescing agent") dissolved in water. So five things: three kinds of hard particles suspended in a solution of a solvent dissolved in water.
(There are also chemical additives in latex paints like mildewcides and defoamers, and but let's just ignore those. They don't play any roll in what the coalescing solvents do. )
When you spread latex paint on the wall, the first thing that happens is that the water evaporates, and the tiny plastic binder resins find themselves surrounded by that coalescing solvent at an ever increasing concentration. The coalescing solvent dissolves (kinda) those plastic binder resins, making them soft and sticky. The adhesion of the paint to the substrate occurs when the binder resins are soft and sticky.
The same force of surface tension that causes tiny droplets of water to coalesce into large rain drops in clowds then takes over and causes each soft sticky binder resin to stick to and pull on it's neighbors. The result is that all those tiny plastic resins "coalesce" to form a continuous soft film sticking to the substrate with the coloured and extender pigments suspended inside that film very much like the raisins in raisin bread. The coloured pigments give the paint film it's colour and the amount and coarseness of the extender pigments determine how rough or glossy the paint film dries to.
As the clear plastic binder resins coalesce into a solid continusous film, you no longer have gazillions of plastic/water interfaces (which previously reflected and refracted light like miniature prisms). Your eye sees light of all different colours as the colour "white", so as the clear binder resins coalesce to form a film, the amount of white light coming from the drying paint diminishes, and so the paint appears to darken as it dries. That is, latex paints darken as they dry for exactly the same reason that snow loses it's white colour as it melts to form water.
Then, the coalescing solvent evaporates from the paint film, filling the room with that freshly painted smell. And, as the coalescing solvent evaporates from the soft, sticky plastic film, that clear plastic hardens back up again to the same hardness as the original plastic binder resins were when the paint was still in the can.

In fact, most latex film formations will have several different coalescing solvents in them, each with a different evaporation rate. The reason for using a mix of solvents with different evaporation rates is to provide as wide a time window as possible for the water in the paint to evaporate. If the paint is being used on a humid day, that humidity will slow down the rate of water evaporation from the paint, but not the evaporation rate of the coalescing solvents. So, different kinds of coalescing solvents are used in latex paint, each with a faster or slower evaporation rate. That ensures that the coalescing solvent is always the last product to evaporate from the paint.

[Robert Macy[_2_]]

On Oct 3, 10:46*am, Oren wrote:
When you are cleaning the brush, you are not cleaning all the paint
out of the metal paint brush ferrule (cup).

When you think the brush is clean under clear water, gently fold the
bristles in your palm near the ferrule. Flip the brush and do the
other side. Repeat until no paint exits the 'cup' of the ferrule.

There.

Know that. Did that. Made NO difference. Wish it did, but didn't.

[Robert Macy[_2_]]

On Oct 3, 11:04*am, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 3 Oct 2012 08:38:05 -0700 (PDT), Robert Macy

wrote:
I used to work for a professional house painte

Didn't he teach you how to clean a paint brush? *:-\

yes, that's why I was surprised when the brush became 'ruined'

Also, that is why I gave the detailed description of the cleaning
process to let people know that the process was correct, resutlts were
wrong.

[Robert Macy[_2_]]

On Oct 3, 11:50*am, "dadiOH" wrote:
Here's what I do...

1. Hang brush in a can of water covering a bit of the ferrule. *Note I said
"hang".

2. After an hour or so, most of the paint will have fallen out. *Remove
brush and rinse well in clean water. *Squeeze from the ferrule down.

3. Wash with Boraxo, squeezing from ferrule down.

4. Thoroughly rinse to remove Boraxo squeezing - you guessed it - from the
ferrule down. *Filling a deep container and surging the brush up and down
will help.

5. *Examine the bristles especially just under the ferrule. *If they are
clean, smooth bristles and hang the brush to dry. *If they aren't clean, go
to some number above.

2. is there something I can add to latex to slow down the drying time.
I think 30 seconds is a bit too short.

Flotrol.

No paint dries in 30 seconds. *Whatever you are painting may suck up the
water in the paint so it seems dry but it isn't. *I suggest you toss the
"self priming" paint (all paint is) and use primer.

3. is there something that removes/prevents that sludge build up in
the brush?

To prevent it, clean the brush thoroughly. *To remove it, use "Brush
Cleaner", available at any hardware store.

--

dadiOH

Great list of instructions!

I misremembered what the pro painter I worked for used to do with his
brushes. For overnight, he simply placed his paint brush in the paint
container. [even down into a gallon bucket] In the morning he'd
simply wipe off the handle and start working. For longer term storage,
he put the brush in the freezer.

I checked with HD, and asked them for a flattening agent, and they
recommended flotrol also.

Why Boraxo? How is it different than Palmolive dishwashing soap?

I did indeed start putting the brush in water overnight. Forgot that
paint uses oxygen to cure, so the air in the water still makes the
paint coagulate, but at least with water it's pretty loose stuff.

Brush cleaner...hate adding costs, but if simplifies worth it. And
from experience Jasco and such do a trip to the brush anyway.

With regard to drying time, the paintgot sticky instantly so
feathering in was not possible, however the paint seemed still
slightly tacky the next morning approx 12 hours later. I'm leaning
towards thinking that the paint was not completely cured and reacted
with the second coat. so I'm trying an experiment to wait 3 days and
see what painting a cured paint layer is like.

[Robert Macy[_2_]]

On Oct 3, 12:09*pm, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 3 Oct 2012 10:00:04 -0700 (PDT), Robert Macy

wrote:
On Oct 3, 9:18*am, "Douglas C. Neidermeyer"
wrote:
Any help, knowledgeable people?

Next post: clarity, brevity, focus ;-)

tried that, got crap answers, with ALL kinds of assumptions.

Was it expensive?

Being terminally cheap....

Yes, very expensive: cost me time - which I can't get back. and
reputation - which is pretty much swiss cheesed now anyway.

[Robert Macy[_2_]]

On Oct 3, 12:31*pm, Norminn wrote:
Which assumptions are you assuming to be wrong? *After rereading your
post, I have surmised that the problem is not your brush or how you
clean it, but the wrong primer for particle board (possibly). PB has
water soluble glue and the water based paint dissolved some glue (along
with fine wood particles?). *Oil-based primer would probably be better
choice.

Comments applied to previous attempts posting to obtain assisstance,
using brief descriptions.

I never thought of the glues in the particle board reacting with the
paint, not bad. Second coat should NOT have that problem, but was
actually worse. But, that might have been caused by waiting only 24
hours for the second coat, and the paint was not cured enough and IT
reacted with the new paint.

[Robert Macy[_2_]]

On Oct 3, 7:46*pm, nestork wrote:
Robert:
...sinp a WEALTH of information! ...
So, spraying some PnB dissolved in water on dried latex paint would
soften the paint, and allow it to self level again as the PnB and water
evaporated.

This spray was a miracle. I went from cursing and swearing and
applying the latex so thick that it destroyed any details under the
paint to being able to come back the next day and 'correct' things I
didn't like - from drip run not noticed to "I didn't notice those
brush strokes in that light until now" removal.

I started using it on everything. When I did a 15 x 18 ft hardwood
floor with oil based finish, I could actually wet n dry sand using the
spray as a 'wetting' compound and a single sheet of 220 was all it
took for the whole floor, plus somehow the spray hardened the finish,
so you could do 3 coats in less than a week.

I used the spray for wet n dry sanding the painted finish on a wood
wall, and made it seriously look as smooth as formica. Then the wood
grain would subtlely start to reacquire and the effect was
exceptional.

Thanks for letting me know Walmart carries it. We have one less than 2
miles away, but they seem to have limited product selections, but I
can order and pick up there! Also need Affresh Stainles Steel Cleaner,
so now two products to get.

2. What was that cottage cheeze stuff?
Next time, don't use any detergent when washing out your brush. *What
I'm thinking is that those blobs of cottage cheeze were the coalescing
solvent in your primer/paint mixing with the detergent you used to clean
the brush with.
(I'm also presuming that this was softened water from your city's water
supply system and not hard water from a well that you were using to
clean the brush.)

Possibly true on BOTH counts.

Next time I will NOT use detergent and will soak brush in distilled
water.

Distilled water is a 'miracle' product, too. I can lean our bathroom
mirrors [covered with those tiny splatters] in 20 seconds. Now do our
house windows in less than a minute each. Ms. Macy hates stainles
steel kitchen appliances and has delegated that to me, I found that
using cheap paper towels [the kind with NO additives] and spray
distilled water allows me to wipe dry the surfaces leaving them streak
free!

PS: *Why do you need an industrial solvent in latex paint?

...snip another wealth of information!...

I'm saving this posting in mny construction articles.

Two other thoughts came to mind
1. Will there be a test next Friday?
2. We don't want to learn too much else my head will explode - Calivn
and Hobbes


Thank you again for the wealth of solid information.

Regards,
Robert

[HeyBub[_3_]]

Robert Macy wrote:

Actually more questions than simply how to clean a brush:
1. how to properly clean a brush

1. Dip brush into a solution of warm water and fabric softener.
2. Extract the solution using a brush-spinner.
3. Repeat.
4. Rinse brush with tap water.

[Norminn]

On 10/4/2012 9:45 AM, Robert Macy wrote:
On Oct 3, 12:31 pm, Norminn wrote:
Which assumptions are you assuming to be wrong? After rereading your
post, I have surmised that the problem is not your brush or how you
clean it, but the wrong primer for particle board (possibly). PB has
water soluble glue and the water based paint dissolved some glue (along
with fine wood particles?). Oil-based primer would probably be better
choice.

Comments applied to previous attempts posting to obtain assisstance,
using brief descriptions.

I never thought of the glues in the particle board reacting with the
paint, not bad. Second coat should NOT have that problem, but was
actually worse. But, that might have been caused by waiting only 24
hours for the second coat, and the paint was not cured enough and IT
reacted with the new paint.


Don't know, never had such an issue, but....first coat dissolved some
glue which sucked water from the paint and kept it from curing. Second
coat dissolved the glue/paint again with partially cured globs.

When latex paint first came out, my mom used it over wallpaper in a
bedroom. The wallpaper shortly started coming off the wall...kind of
like a Laurel & Hardy job...mom kept sticking it back up. Mom won (as
usual) )

[Robert Macy[_2_]]

On Oct 4, 7:56*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
Robert Macy wrote:

Actually more questions than simply how to clean a brush:
1. how to properly clean a brush

1. Dip brush into a solution of warm water and fabric softener.
2. Extract the solution using a brush-spinner.
3. Repeat.
4. Rinse brush with tap water.

I built a brush rack from a wire coat hangar to hang the brush into a
cut off 2 liter soda bottle bottom.

Don't have fabric softener, but could try Jet-Dri as the 'wetting'
agent, right?

[Robert Macy[_2_]]

On Oct 4, 8:45*am, Norminn wrote:
Don't know, never had such an issue, but....first coat dissolved some
glue which sucked water from the paint and kept it from curing. *Second
coat dissolved the glue/paint again with partially cured globs.

When latex paint first came out, my mom used it over wallpaper in a
bedroom. *The wallpaper shortly started coming off the wall...kind of
like a Laurel & Hardy job...mom kept sticking it back up. *Mom won (as
usual) )

Your description sounds like exactly what happened. Because the paint
out on true raw wood, or on a section of plastic trim did not exhibit
any of these problems.

We used to use that Easy-Off Window Cleaner to remove stubbron OLD
wall paper from the lathe and plaster walls. We're talking something
like 4-6 layers of papers and a rented steamer just was a mess and
humid. The window cleaner's compound just cut through the paper and
down into the glues and the layers simply slid off the wall, but..left
the glues intact, so there was still an icky clean up required.

[Vic Smith]

On Thu, 4 Oct 2012 10:00:13 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Robert Macy wrote:

Actually more questions than simply how to clean a brush:
1. how to properly clean a brush

1. Dip brush into a solution of warm water and fabric softener.
2. Extract the solution using a brush-spinner.
3. Repeat.
4. Rinse brush with tap water.


Any brush, pig bristle or polyester, will be difficult to clean if you
load it up to the ferrule and allow the paint to gum up or dry inside.
Latex will crack off polyester bristles after it thoroughly cures, and
you can rub it out/off of the bristles unless you formed a dried brick
of paint inside.
Oil is less tolerant, and most dried paint inside the bristles is
there forever. You can wire brush some out but you'll lose bristles.
If you turn it into a brick, just throw the brush away.
There's no magic "solvent" for dried paint inside a brush.
Well, there might be, but I've never seen them used.
For me even a good brush wouldn't be worth using strong solvents to
salvage it. Probably degrade the bristle quality.
Brush care/cleaning goes hand-in-hand with painting technique.
Here's what I say/do.
Use a quality flagged brush.
Don't load it heavily or apply too much pressure when stroking.
That's easily said, but never works through the entire job.
But try.
When/if the paint soaks the bristle 2/3 of the way to the ferrule,
STOP PAINTING AND GO CLEAN THE BRUSH.
Pros can stretch this because they're pros and work fast.
But mortals should be more careful.
I've cleaned many brushes early to mid job, oil and latex.
Only takes a few minutes.
Never spun a latex or oil brush.
With oil, brush the cleaning spirits out a couple times firmly on
newspaper or wood or even a rag, flexing the brush.
With latex just rub the bristles under a running faucet.
Okay, there it is. I've cleaned a LOT of brushes, and also worked
house-painting with my brother, a long time pro painter, who taught me
what I said.
I know the SOB would argue about it though.
Always roll if you can, but sometimes you need a brush.
I've got 6-7 hanging on pegs. One good pig bristle is hard inside, so
I don't always follow my own advice. I'll toss it.
When I painted more with oil I had 2 covered coffee cans of thinner
under a workbench for a 2-step brush cleaning process.
BTW, if allowed to set a few days, that dirty thinner will get crystal
clear and you can pour it into a new can. Toss the old can with the
settled paint.

[Jon Danniken[_7_]]

On 10/03/2012 08:34 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Regardless of what brand of paint I use, I always use the same method
for cleaning - assuming it's a soap and water clean-up.

It starts with warm water and Dawn dish soap.

Actually I should say it starts with a decent brush. I been a fan of
the Purdy line of brushes available from the Home Depot. Most of the
ones I've been using for years have the original cardboard sleeve. It
is recommended that the brushes be stored in the original cardboard
sleeve so that the shape is held constant as they dry. I built a "nail
board" in my shop and the brushes are wrapped and hung immediately
after washing. OK, immediately after being shake-dried.

I have a 4' length of garden hose with a spray nozzle that I keep by
my utility sink. It's great for washing coolers, buckets, dogs and
yes, paint brushes. I blast them with the spray nozzle set on jet to
get the paint out from deep within the bristles. If blasting doesn't
get it all out because some of it has dried, I rest the bristles on
the center divider of the sink and scrub them with a nail brush. I'll
even use my fingernails to scrap paint off of the bristles on the
outside of the brush if need be. You have to have a quality brush if
you expect it to stand up to this kind of abuse without the bristles
falling out or getting all bent out of shape.

Once I am satisfied that the brush is clean, I give it few sharp
shakes to get most of the water out, reshape the bristles by hand,
wrap it up in it's cardboard sleeve and hang it on it's nail. Other
than the handle, I have some brushes that you would think are brand
new if judged solely by the bristles.

I know my time consuming method works because I've seen the condition
of the same brand of brushes when my wife or son borrows one and then
"cleans" it. I've thrown away brushes, or saved them for junk jobs,
after they've ruined them by cleaning them improperly.

On the rare occasions when a brush I've cleaned is a little stiff when
I open the cardboard, it only because the bristles are slightly stuck
together and a simple flexing of the bristles softens them up.

Yep, that's the exact same method I use as well, except I like to use
warm water for the cleanup. Been using the same latex brush for over a
decade now (a Purdy*, of course), and aside from paint splatters on the
handle it still performs like new.

*While it is a Purdy, it was one of their "seconds" that the local paint
store sold at a sizeable discount. I'll be damned if I can find
anything wrong with it, though.

Jon

[Norminn]

clipped

We used to use that Easy-Off Window Cleaner to remove stubbron OLD
wall paper from the lathe and plaster walls. We're talking something
like 4-6 layers of papers and a rented steamer just was a mess and
humid. The window cleaner's compound just cut through the paper and
down into the glues and the layers simply slid off the wall, but..left
the glues intact, so there was still an icky clean up required.

My method for wallpaper is to "cut" the surface (vinyl or otherwise)
with very coarse sandpaper, going across the wall. Spray with warm
water, soak a while (generally a cig and cuppa coffee), spray, soak,
then start peeling and scraping. It is technically primitive, very
messy but it works. New house only has a couple of borders.

One of the very ungliest homes I have ever seen (images on line) had red
and green wallpaper and border in EVERY FREAKING ROOM...different papers
above/below. It would take a strong person about 20 years to get rid of
it. Next ugliest thing, which seems to be a huge seller, is
overstuffed, furry sofa/love seats. Nasty )

[Norminn]

clipped
I know the SOB would argue about it though. Always roll if you can,
but sometimes you need a brush. I've got 6-7 hanging on pegs. One
good pig bristle is hard inside, so I don't always follow my own
advice. I'll toss it. When I painted more with oil I had 2 covered
coffee cans of thinner under a workbench for a 2-step brush cleaning
process. BTW, if allowed to set a few days, that dirty thinner will
get crystal clear and you can pour it into a new can. Toss the old
can with the settled paint.

Lots of good advice. I used to suspend brush in coffee can of mineral
spirits...cut an "X" in the plastic lid, stick brush handle up through
the "X", put enough m.s. in can to keep bristles wet. For overnight it
is good for keeping the paint solvent and out of ferrule. I've re-used
m.s. many times, using your method, for clean-up. Works great for paint
remover (first coats) until p.r. becomes too thick to spread.

I've used paint remover to get old, hard paint out of brushes (not good
brushes). If nothing else, I can use the brush for junk or for paint
removal. Chip brushes have gotten expensive )

[HeyBub[_3_]]

Vic Smith wrote:
On Thu, 4 Oct 2012 10:00:13 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Robert Macy wrote:

Actually more questions than simply how to clean a brush:
1. how to properly clean a brush

1. Dip brush into a solution of warm water and fabric softener.
2. Extract the solution using a brush-spinner.
3. Repeat.
4. Rinse brush with tap water.


Any brush, pig bristle or polyester, will be difficult to clean if you
load it up to the ferrule and allow the paint to gum up or dry inside.
Latex will crack off polyester bristles after it thoroughly cures, and
you can rub it out/off of the bristles unless you formed a dried brick
of paint inside.
Oil is less tolerant, and most dried paint inside the bristles is
there forever. You can wire brush some out but you'll lose bristles.
If you turn it into a brick, just throw the brush away.
There's no magic "solvent" for dried paint inside a brush.
Well, there might be, but I've never seen them used.
For me even a good brush wouldn't be worth using strong solvents to
salvage it. Probably degrade the bristle quality.
Brush care/cleaning goes hand-in-hand with painting technique.
Here's what I say/do.
Use a quality flagged brush.
Don't load it heavily or apply too much pressure when stroking.
That's easily said, but never works through the entire job.
But try.
When/if the paint soaks the bristle 2/3 of the way to the ferrule,
STOP PAINTING AND GO CLEAN THE BRUSH.
Pros can stretch this because they're pros and work fast.
But mortals should be more careful.
I've cleaned many brushes early to mid job, oil and latex.
Only takes a few minutes.
Never spun a latex or oil brush.
With oil, brush the cleaning spirits out a couple times firmly on
newspaper or wood or even a rag, flexing the brush.
With latex just rub the bristles under a running faucet.
Okay, there it is. I've cleaned a LOT of brushes, and also worked
house-painting with my brother, a long time pro painter, who taught me
what I said.
I know the SOB would argue about it though.
Always roll if you can, but sometimes you need a brush.
I've got 6-7 hanging on pegs. One good pig bristle is hard inside, so
I don't always follow my own advice. I'll toss it.
When I painted more with oil I had 2 covered coffee cans of thinner
under a workbench for a 2-step brush cleaning process.
BTW, if allowed to set a few days, that dirty thinner will get crystal
clear and you can pour it into a new can. Toss the old can with the
settled paint.

Excellent advice, especially the part about using a cleaned (or clean) brush
when the initial one starts to get gummy.

Another alternative is to use a cheap brush - on those areas where you can
get away with it, such as the first coat or primer - and toss the brush in
the trash when done. Serviceable brushes can be had at Harbor Freight for
less than a dollar. Heck, the price for thirty-six 2" chip brushes is
thirty-cents each!

[Smitty Two[_2_]]

In article ,
"HeyBub" wrote:

Another alternative is to use a cheap brush - on those areas where you can
get away with it, such as the first coat or primer - and toss the brush in
the trash when done.

Another alternative is to use $10 brushes and toss them in the trash
when done. In light of the cost of paint, and the significant labor
involved in painting, throwing out a medium quality brush doesn't bother
me at all.

[Vic Smith]

On Fri, 5 Oct 2012 08:59:27 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:


Another alternative is to use a cheap brush - on those areas where you can
get away with it, such as the first coat or primer - and toss the brush in
the trash when done. Serviceable brushes can be had at Harbor Freight for
less than a dollar. Heck, the price for thirty-six 2" chip brushes is
thirty-cents each!

I've got a mess of foam brushes, and use them for small jobs.
If the paint levels well, they work fine.
My wife does most the painting, and she uses edging pads, and foam
corner rollers.
But I'll make sure one of us tapes next go-around because I put up new
varnished door trim and crown molding.
Tape works best for a clean line and no paint on the woodwork.

[HerHusband]

Robert,

In our home we moved into there was left over 2.5 gal
1. how to properly clean a brush

To clean brushes after using water based paints or stains, I simply use a
small container of water. I put a few inches of water in the container,
then swish the brush in a circular motion (pressing against the bottom of
the container, as if painting the bottom of the container). When the water
looks dirty, I dump it, refill with clean water, and repeat as many times
as necessary until the water is no longer dirty from the circular swishing.
Then I take it out in an open area and with an overhand slinging motion I
sling out as much water as possible. Finally, I dry the outside of the
brush with a paper towel, and store it in the original package so it
doesn't dry out.

For oil based stains, polyurethane, etc. I use the same procedure above
except I use mineral spirits instead of water (refer to the "clean up"
instructions on your paint or stain to see which solvent you should use,
most of the time it's mineral spirits).

I have a couple different brushes that have lasted me a few years. But, if
I'm working on a new project, especially polyurethane on a new piece of
furniture, I'll simply go out and buy a new quality brush for the project.

In many cases, such as the final coat of poly on a project, disposable foam
brushes work better than bristle brushes anyway.

In your case, I'm better the old paint was causing problems more than the
brush cleaning techniques.

Take care,

Anthony Watson
Mountain Software
www.mountain-software.com

[[email protected]]

On Fri, 5 Oct 2012 08:59:27 -0500, "HeyBub" wrote:

Vic Smith wrote:
On Thu, 4 Oct 2012 10:00:13 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Robert Macy wrote:

Actually more questions than simply how to clean a brush:
1. how to properly clean a brush

1. Dip brush into a solution of warm water and fabric softener.
2. Extract the solution using a brush-spinner.
3. Repeat.
4. Rinse brush with tap water.


Any brush, pig bristle or polyester, will be difficult to clean if you
load it up to the ferrule and allow the paint to gum up or dry inside.
Latex will crack off polyester bristles after it thoroughly cures, and
you can rub it out/off of the bristles unless you formed a dried brick
of paint inside.
Oil is less tolerant, and most dried paint inside the bristles is
there forever. You can wire brush some out but you'll lose bristles.
If you turn it into a brick, just throw the brush away.
There's no magic "solvent" for dried paint inside a brush.
Well, there might be, but I've never seen them used.
For me even a good brush wouldn't be worth using strong solvents to
salvage it. Probably degrade the bristle quality.
Brush care/cleaning goes hand-in-hand with painting technique.
Here's what I say/do.
Use a quality flagged brush.
Don't load it heavily or apply too much pressure when stroking.
That's easily said, but never works through the entire job.
But try.
When/if the paint soaks the bristle 2/3 of the way to the ferrule,
STOP PAINTING AND GO CLEAN THE BRUSH.
Pros can stretch this because they're pros and work fast.
But mortals should be more careful.
I've cleaned many brushes early to mid job, oil and latex.
Only takes a few minutes.
Never spun a latex or oil brush.
With oil, brush the cleaning spirits out a couple times firmly on
newspaper or wood or even a rag, flexing the brush.
With latex just rub the bristles under a running faucet.
Okay, there it is. I've cleaned a LOT of brushes, and also worked
house-painting with my brother, a long time pro painter, who taught me
what I said.
I know the SOB would argue about it though.
Always roll if you can, but sometimes you need a brush.
I've got 6-7 hanging on pegs. One good pig bristle is hard inside, so
I don't always follow my own advice. I'll toss it.
When I painted more with oil I had 2 covered coffee cans of thinner
under a workbench for a 2-step brush cleaning process.
BTW, if allowed to set a few days, that dirty thinner will get crystal
clear and you can pour it into a new can. Toss the old can with the
settled paint.

Excellent advice, especially the part about using a cleaned (or clean) brush
when the initial one starts to get gummy.

Another alternative is to use a cheap brush - on those areas where you can
get away with it, such as the first coat or primer - and toss the brush in
the trash when done. Serviceable brushes can be had at Harbor Freight for
less than a dollar. Heck, the price for thirty-six 2" chip brushes is
thirty-cents each!

HF chip brushes shed. Badly. Pulling bristles out of paint is a PITA.

[[email protected]]

On Sun, 7 Oct 2012 15:26:18 +0000 (UTC), HerHusband
wrote:

Robert,

In our home we moved into there was left over 2.5 gal
1. how to properly clean a brush

To clean brushes after using water based paints or stains, I simply use a
small container of water. I put a few inches of water in the container,
then swish the brush in a circular motion (pressing against the bottom of
the container, as if painting the bottom of the container). When the water
looks dirty, I dump it, refill with clean water, and repeat as many times
as necessary until the water is no longer dirty from the circular swishing.
Then I take it out in an open area and with an overhand slinging motion I
sling out as much water as possible. Finally, I dry the outside of the
brush with a paper towel, and store it in the original package so it
doesn't dry out.

I rinse mine under running water for a few minutes, then dunk them in water
with dish detergent for a few hours. Rinse and set aside to dry. Works well,
except for the brushes I've used all day. It still works but some paint dries
on the bristles.

For oil based stains, polyurethane, etc. I use the same procedure above
except I use mineral spirits instead of water (refer to the "clean up"
instructions on your paint or stain to see which solvent you should use,
most of the time it's mineral spirits).

I use disposable brushes. The cost of the mineral spirits exceeds the cost of
the brush.

I have a couple different brushes that have lasted me a few years. But, if
I'm working on a new project, especially polyurethane on a new piece of
furniture, I'll simply go out and buy a new quality brush for the project.

In many cases, such as the final coat of poly on a project, disposable foam
brushes work better than bristle brushes anyway.

I like foam brushes for poly, too. Spraying would be better but I haven't
gotten that far, yet.

In your case, I'm better the old paint was causing problems more than the
brush cleaning techniques.

??

[Robert Macy[_2_]]

On Oct 7, 8:26*am, HerHusband wrote:
Robert,

In our home we moved into there was left over 2.5 gal
1. how to properly clean a brush

To clean brushes after using water based paints or stains, I simply use a
small container of water. I put a few inches of water in the container,
then swish the brush in a circular motion (pressing against the bottom of
the container, as if painting the bottom of the container). When the water
looks dirty, I dump it, refill with clean water, and repeat as many times
as necessary until the water is no longer dirty from the circular swishing.
Then I take it out in an open area and with an overhand slinging motion I
sling out as much water as possible. Finally, I dry the outside of the
brush with a paper towel, and store it in the original package so it
doesn't dry out.
...snip...

Tried that, works great! I even got really lazy and didn't do a thing
but hang the wet brush in water for overnight storage and the next day
just shook it out ready to use.

I found that one of the water based cleaning compounds reacted badly
with the Glidden paint. The same solvent is great for Dunne Edwards,
but for some reason reacts with Glidden. Turns it instantly to
'cottage cheese' crumbs. Avoid that solvent and not had crumbs again.

Still fighting their gummy paint though. Even added Floetrol to make
it work better, doesn't. Still get those irritating lines being drawn
by the individual bristles in the brush. But at least this project is
a kitchen pantry and don't care about appearance quite so much.

[HerHusband]

I use disposable brushes. The cost of the mineral spirits exceeds the
cost of the brush.

I use disposable brushes for things that don't need a good finish. Applying
protective coatings that get sanded or covered up later, and that sort of
thing. I haven't been very happy with them for final paint or stain coats.

I use disposable drinking cups to clean my brushes. A mason jar or any
narrow container wide enough to accommodate the brush would work well too.
I only add enough mineral spirits to reach the bottom of the ferrule. If I
am using and cleaning the brush multiple times over a few days (typical
when finishing a project), I can usually reuse the same mineral spirits two
or three times before I have to dump it. (I usually set it aside several
days until it "gums" up from the finish and I can just toss it in the
trash)

A can of mineral spirits normally lasts me for a few different projects,
and is usually cheaper than buying a new brush each time. It really depends
on the project. Most of the stuff I build is fairly utilitarian and doesn't
need a showroom finish (shop cabinets and whatnot). For pieces I am more
concerned with, I just buy a new brush.

I like foam brushes for poly, too. Spraying would be better but I
haven't gotten that far, yet.

I haven't sprayed poly either, other than the rattle can variety on a few
rare projects. Most of the time I can brush on poly in less time than it
would take to set up a sprayer and clean it afterward. Not to mention, my
air compressor isn't really up to par for spraying purposes.

Anthony Watson
Mountain Software
www.mountain-software.com

[Robert Macy[_2_]]

On Oct 7, 7:45*pm, "
wrote:
On Sun, 7 Oct 2012 15:26:18 +0000 (UTC), HerHusband
wrote:

Robert,

In our home we moved into there was left over 2.5 gal
1. how to properly clean a brush

To clean brushes after using water based paints or stains, I simply use a
small container of water. I put a few inches of water in the container,
then swish the brush in a circular motion (pressing against the bottom of
the container, as if painting the bottom of the container). When the water
looks dirty, I dump it, refill with clean water, and repeat as many times
as necessary until the water is no longer dirty from the circular swishing.
Then I take it out in an open area and with an overhand slinging motion I
sling out as much water as possible. Finally, I dry the outside of the
brush with a paper towel, and store it in the original package so it
doesn't dry out.

I rinse mine under running water for a few minutes, then dunk them in water
with dish detergent for a few hours. *Rinse and set aside to dry. *Works well,
except for the brushes I've used all day. *It still works but some paint dries
on the bristles.

For oil based stains, polyurethane, etc. I use the same procedure above
except I use mineral spirits instead of water (refer to the "clean up"
instructions on your paint or stain to see which solvent you should use,
most of the time it's mineral spirits).

I use disposable brushes. *The cost of the mineral spirits exceeds the cost of
the brush.

I have a couple different brushes that have lasted me a few years. But, if
I'm working on a new project, especially polyurethane on a new piece of
furniture, I'll simply go out and buy a new quality brush for the project.

[HerHusband]

Robert,

Still get those irritating lines being drawn by the
individual bristles in the brush.

Unlike a self-leveling finish like polyurethane, I don't think you'll ever
avoid the brush marks with most paints. Ironically, some people pay more
for cabinets that have that "hand painted" look (with the brush strokes
instead of mass production spraying).

Anthony Watson
Mountain Software
www.mountain-software.com

[dadiOH[_3_]]

HerHusband wrote:
Robert,

Still get those irritating lines being drawn by the
individual bristles in the brush.

Unlike a self-leveling finish like polyurethane, I don't think you'll
ever avoid the brush marks with most paints.

With most *LATEX* paints.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

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[Robert Macy[_2_]]

On Oct 8, 5:25*pm, HerHusband wrote:
Robert,

Still get those irritating lines being drawn by the
individual bristles in the brush.

Unlike a self-leveling finish like polyurethane, I don't think you'll ever
avoid the brush marks with most paints. Ironically, some people pay more
for cabinets that have that "hand painted" look (with the brush strokes
instead of mass production spraying).

Anthony Watson
Mountain Softwarewww.mountain-software.com

that is ironic. like 'distressed' finish, or faux finish, which I
refer to as MUCK

Glidden paint is THICK and gooey and even Floetrol hasn't made it
'work' better. Remember the Dunne-Edwards paint didn't leave those
brush lines using the SAME brush [before it was ruined by Glidden]
Something new has been added to this Glidden painting experience. Now
I'm getting allergic reactions to paint fumes from Glidden: nausea,
exhaustion, and painful llymph nodes under arm pits. To me, that's
pretty significant reaction. Only instant rest and hydrating seems to
stop the reaction. Sadly hydrating and resting are opposite.

At least, I don't have to clean the brush out anymore, just hang it in
water and change the water a few times, then use the brush again seems
to work ok. Only problem with that is the brush can't really be used
above your head. The watery stuff runs down the handle.

Dunne-Edwards paint allowed me to joint compound/paint. Then, upon
discovering I didn't like how I did the skim coat or taping I could
sand feather everything and paint again with invisible results. no
lines or junctions showing from previous work. Haven't tried this
with Glidden, but have a premonition [based upon experience with
'cheap' paint that historically did this to me] that Glidden will NOT
allow me to rework these areas. I'll bet the junction lines end up
showing. I'll test an area later and post results.

[HerHusband]

Robert,

I'm getting allergic reactions to paint fumes from Glidden: nausea,
exhaustion, and painful llymph nodes under arm pits. To me, that's
pretty significant reaction.

From "latex" paint? That's weird, it's usually odorless, or at least that
lovely latex scent. Sounds like you need to add some ventilation to your
work area (open windows, turn on fans, etc.).

At least, I don't have to clean the brush out anymore, just hang it in
water and change the water a few times, then use the brush again seems
to work ok. Only problem with that is the brush can't really be used
above your head. The watery stuff runs down the handle.

That's why I do the overhead sling to force the water out of the bristles
and any that is trapped up in the ferrule of the paint brush. Of couse,
any paint, stain, or other finish will eventually run down the handle when
you're painting overhead. The thicker paints are actually nicer when
working overhead as it doesn't flow down so easily.

Dunne-Edwards paint allowed me to joint compound/paint. Then, upon
discovering I didn't like how I did the skim coat or taping I could
sand feather everything and paint again with invisible results. no
lines or junctions showing from previous work. Haven't tried this
with Glidden

We painted our Living room with Glidden latex paint and I had no problems
recoating with joint compound to fix a low spot. Once the paint was dry, I
skimmed on some more joint compound with a 12" knife, then sanded it
lightly to smooth and blend before repainting. We're going on 8+ years with
no issues.

Anthony Watson
Mountain Software
www.mountain-software.com