[Chuck Banshee]

What causes this crazy brown crazing on a varnished steel square?
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7485181.jpg

What can be done to get rid of it (so that I can read the numbers on the
rule)?

I pulled out this measuring square out of my toolbox and was dismayed to
realize that it was almost impossible to read the markings because of
this haphazard crazy brown "crazing" all over the place.

Can it be fixed?

[Joe]

On Feb 3, 10:22*pm, Chuck Banshee wrote:
What causes this crazy brown crazing on a varnished steel square?

snip


Can it be fixed?

Not likely. You are storing your tools in a high humidity area. Keep
them dry. Discard the framing square and get a better one made from
aluminum. Even cheap steel squares years ago were heavily copper
plated, and yours is not in that category at all. Moisture and some
raw ferrous material like steel wool could have made the corrosion
marks you see.

Joe

[JIMMIE]

On Feb 3, 11:22*pm, Chuck Banshee wrote:
What causes this crazy brown crazing on a varnished steel square?
*http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7485181.jpg

What can be done to get rid of it (so that I can read the numbers on the
rule)?

I pulled out this measuring square out of my toolbox and was dismayed to
realize that it was almost impossible to read the markings because of
this haphazard crazy brown "crazing" all over the place.

Can it be fixed?

Remove the varnish. Ive never seen one that wasnt bare metal.. Did it
come that way new? I used to have one that was blued, not surre if it
came that way or if it was something my brother did. He learned how to
blue guns and he was bluing everything for a while.

Jimmie

[Bob F]

Chuck Banshee wrote:
What causes this crazy brown crazing on a varnished steel square?
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7485181.jpg

What can be done to get rid of it (so that I can read the numbers on
the rule)?

I pulled out this measuring square out of my toolbox and was dismayed
to realize that it was almost impossible to read the markings because
of this haphazard crazy brown "crazing" all over the place.

Can it be fixed?

Cracks through the finish, rusting underneath?

[Nate Nagel]

On 02/03/2012 11:22 PM, Chuck Banshee wrote:
What causes this crazy brown crazing on a varnished steel square?
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7485181.jpg

What can be done to get rid of it (so that I can read the numbers on the
rule)?

I pulled out this measuring square out of my toolbox and was dismayed to
realize that it was almost impossible to read the markings because of
this haphazard crazy brown "crazing" all over the place.

Can it be fixed?

Strip the varnish, put it in an electrolytic derust tank (I know, it
sounds like I'm asking you to do something ludicrous, but I'm running
one right now, and trust me, once you have one set up you will find
stuff to put it it, it's great) paint/varnish. Or buy a new one for $10
or so.

The crazing I believe is corrosion caused by moisture/air actually
getting underneath the finish at a tiny flaw and spreading from there.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

[dadiOH[_3_]]

Chuck Banshee wrote:
What causes this crazy brown crazing on a varnished steel square?
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7485181.jpg

What can be done to get rid of it (so that I can read the numbers on
the rule)?

I pulled out this measuring square out of my toolbox and was dismayed
to realize that it was almost impossible to read the markings because
of this haphazard crazy brown "crazing" all over the place.

Can it be fixed?

Technically, it is called "rust".

You can get rid of it by removing the clear coat on the rule and then either
sanding off the rust or removing it chemically.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

[joevan]

On Sat, 4 Feb 2012 07:31:07 -0500, "dadiOH"
wrote:

Chuck Banshee wrote:
What causes this crazy brown crazing on a varnished steel square?
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7485181.jpg

What can be done to get rid of it (so that I can read the numbers on
the rule)?

I pulled out this measuring square out of my toolbox and was dismayed
to realize that it was almost impossible to read the markings because
of this haphazard crazy brown "crazing" all over the place.

Can it be fixed?

Technically, it is called "rust".

You can get rid of it by removing the clear coat on the rule and then either
sanding off the rust or removing it chemically.
I had a bit of something called neutra rust a long time ago. It was
watery like solution and I used some on a rusting pipe railing and it
has not rusted in 15 years or more. I ran out of the stuff and now
cannot find where to by more. Anyone have a place to buy it or a
replacement for such?

[Chuck Banshee]

On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 21:53:03 -0800, Bob F wrote:

Cracks through the finish, rusting underneath?

I never thought it was rust. Sure, it's 'brown' ... and the square is
steel so it 'can' rust.

But I've never seen rust like that!

Rust usually covers a wide area, and it's rough. This is smooth as silk.

Still ... maybe it 'is' rust as it must be something!

[Chuck Banshee]

On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 07:22:38 -0500, Nate Nagel wrote:
The crazing I believe is corrosion caused by moisture/air actually
getting underneath the finish at a tiny flaw and spreading from there.

Hi Nate,

I had never thought it was rust, but you're the second person to say
that.

Since it doesn't look or feel like any rust I've ever seen, it didn't
even cross my mind that it's rust.

Here's a closeup of the crazing. It's almost as if a tiny burrowing
animal tunneled under the varnish looking for food to eat!
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...40/7487896.jpg

[Chuck Banshee]

On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 07:31:07 -0500, dadiOH wrote:
Technically, it is called "rust".

OK. You're the third person to say it's rust under the varnish.

I have to say, I've seen rust. This doesn't look like rust. But all three
of the responses say it's rust - so - rust it must be.
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7487972.jpg

I'll look at the cost of varnish remover versus just buying a new square!

[[email protected]]

On Sat, 4 Feb 2012 14:20:41 +0000 (UTC), Chuck Banshee
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 21:53:03 -0800, Bob F wrote:

Cracks through the finish, rusting underneath?

I never thought it was rust. Sure, it's 'brown' ... and the square is
steel so it 'can' rust.

But I've never seen rust like that!

Rust usually covers a wide area, and it's rough. This is smooth as silk.

Still ... maybe it 'is' rust as it must be something!

It may be rust in the pinholes of a clear-coat?

[dadiOH[_3_]]

Chuck Banshee wrote:
On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 07:31:07 -0500, dadiOH wrote:
Technically, it is called "rust".

OK. You're the third person to say it's rust under the varnish.

I have to say, I've seen rust. This doesn't look like rust. But all
three of the responses say it's rust - so - rust it must be.
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7487972.jpg

I'll look at the cost of varnish remover versus just buying a new
square!

It wouldn't be varnish, it would be lacquer. A bit of lacquer thinner will
remove it.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

[Chuck Banshee]

On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 11:40:26 -0500, dadiOH wrote:

It wouldn't be varnish, it would be lacquer.
A bit of lacquer thinner will remove it.

Ooops. I don't know the difference between varnish & lacquer.

Looking it up by a variety of sources, Wikipedia included, the difference
is interesting ... but after looking that up, I'm still not sure how you
know it's lacquer.

Here's how Wikipedia lists differences:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varnish
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacquer

Here's a synopsis from multiple web sites:

Varnish:
oil + resin + solvent
always clear
usually brushed on
slow drying
relatively high percentage of solids
usually less durable

Lacquer:
nitrocellulose + solvent
can be tinted
usually sprayed on
fast drying
relatively low percentage of solids
usually more durable

[Oren[_2_]]

On Sat, 4 Feb 2012 14:26:19 +0000 (UTC), Chuck Banshee
wrote:

On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 07:31:07 -0500, dadiOH wrote:
Technically, it is called "rust".

OK. You're the third person to say it's rust under the varnish.

I have to say, I've seen rust. This doesn't look like rust. But all three
of the responses say it's rust - so - rust it must be.
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7487972.jpg

I'll look at the cost of varnish remover versus just buying a new square!

I'm wondering if lemon / lime would clean this off. Cut a lime in
half, add some salt and rub the metal?

[dadiOH[_3_]]

Chuck Banshee wrote:
On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 11:40:26 -0500, dadiOH wrote:

It wouldn't be varnish, it would be lacquer.
A bit of lacquer thinner will remove it.

Ooops. I don't know the difference between varnish & lacquer.

Looking it up by a variety of sources, Wikipedia included, the
difference is interesting ... but after looking that up, I'm still
not sure how you know it's lacquer.

Because no manufacturer would use varnish because it dries so slowly. Ditto
commercial furniture - lacquer finish.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

[gregz]

Chuck Banshee wrote:
On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 11:40:26 -0500, dadiOH wrote:

It wouldn't be varnish, it would be lacquer.
A bit of lacquer thinner will remove it.

Ooops. I don't know the difference between varnish & lacquer.

Looking it up by a variety of sources, Wikipedia included, the difference
is interesting ... but after looking that up, I'm still not sure how you
know it's lacquer.

Here's how Wikipedia lists differences:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varnish
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacquer

Here's a synopsis from multiple web sites:

Varnish:
oil + resin + solvent
always clear
usually brushed on
slow drying
relatively high percentage of solids
usually less durable

Lacquer:
nitrocellulose + solvent
can be tinted
usually sprayed on
fast drying
relatively low percentage of solids
usually more durable

I don't see it more durable. I also see lacquer as being able to absorb
moisture. Ever seen clouding on a piece of furniture top. I had clouding
and actual gouging on a car paint finish using one of those bras. Permanent
damage. The finish was lacquer.

I have one of those squares that get all rust. I have to try dissolving the
rust ever so often. Dam hard to read in any condition.

Greg

[Kuskokwim]

On Sat, 4 Feb 2012 17:08:20 +0000 (UTC), Chuck Banshee wrote:

Ooops. I don't know the difference between varnish & lacquer.

Lacquer dries solely by the evaporation of its solvent. No chemical change
takes place. When dry, it can be removed with its original solvent

When varnish dries and cures, it combines with oxygen from the air and a
chemical change takes place. Because of this chemical change, its original
solvent will not remove it.

When you hear that piles of oil soaked rags will spontaneously combust,
they are not talking about motor oil. They are talking about oils used in
varnishes and oil based paints (linseed oil, etc.) that combine with oxygen
(oxidize) producing an exothermic chemical reaction as they cure.

[[email protected]]

On Sat, 4 Feb 2012 15:37:32 -0500, "dadiOH" wrote:

Chuck Banshee wrote:
On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 11:40:26 -0500, dadiOH wrote:

It wouldn't be varnish, it would be lacquer.
A bit of lacquer thinner will remove it.

Ooops. I don't know the difference between varnish & lacquer.

Looking it up by a variety of sources, Wikipedia included, the
difference is interesting ... but after looking that up, I'm still
not sure how you know it's lacquer.

Because no manufacturer would use varnish because it dries so slowly. Ditto
commercial furniture - lacquer finish.

Why wouldn't they use a UV-cured epoxy, or some such? Much faster than any of
the above.

[Nate Nagel]

On 02/04/2012 09:13 AM, joevan wrote:
On Sat, 4 Feb 2012 07:31:07 -0500,
wrote:

Chuck Banshee wrote:
What causes this crazy brown crazing on a varnished steel square?
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7485181.jpg

What can be done to get rid of it (so that I can read the numbers on
the rule)?

I pulled out this measuring square out of my toolbox and was dismayed
to realize that it was almost impossible to read the markings because
of this haphazard crazy brown "crazing" all over the place.

Can it be fixed?

Technically, it is called "rust".

You can get rid of it by removing the clear coat on the rule and then either
sanding off the rust or removing it chemically.
I had a bit of something called neutra rust a long time ago. It was
watery like solution and I used some on a rusting pipe railing and it
has not rusted in 15 years or more. I ran out of the stuff and now
cannot find where to by more. Anyone have a place to buy it or a
replacement for such?

probably a phosphoric acid based solution, I'd guess.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

[dadiOH[_3_]]

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 4 Feb 2012 15:37:32 -0500, "dadiOH"
wrote:

Chuck Banshee wrote:
On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 11:40:26 -0500, dadiOH wrote:

It wouldn't be varnish, it would be lacquer.
A bit of lacquer thinner will remove it.

Ooops. I don't know the difference between varnish & lacquer.

Looking it up by a variety of sources, Wikipedia included, the
difference is interesting ... but after looking that up, I'm still
not sure how you know it's lacquer.

Because no manufacturer would use varnish because it dries so
slowly. Ditto commercial furniture - lacquer finish.

Why wouldn't they use a UV-cured epoxy, or some such? Much faster
than any of the above.

Maybe they do, no idea. It would depend on cost I would guess.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

[[email protected]]

On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 10:32:04 -0500, "dadiOH" wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 4 Feb 2012 15:37:32 -0500, "dadiOH"
wrote:

Chuck Banshee wrote:
On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 11:40:26 -0500, dadiOH wrote:

It wouldn't be varnish, it would be lacquer.
A bit of lacquer thinner will remove it.

Ooops. I don't know the difference between varnish & lacquer.

Looking it up by a variety of sources, Wikipedia included, the
difference is interesting ... but after looking that up, I'm still
not sure how you know it's lacquer.

Because no manufacturer would use varnish because it dries so
slowly. Ditto commercial furniture - lacquer finish.

Why wouldn't they use a UV-cured epoxy, or some such? Much faster
than any of the above.

Maybe they do, no idea. It would depend on cost I would guess.

It's used on flooring (many coats, even), why not on even a cheap square?

[dadiOH[_3_]]

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 10:32:04 -0500, "dadiOH"
wrote:

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 4 Feb 2012 15:37:32 -0500, "dadiOH"
wrote:

Chuck Banshee wrote:
On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 11:40:26 -0500, dadiOH wrote:

It wouldn't be varnish, it would be lacquer.
A bit of lacquer thinner will remove it.

Ooops. I don't know the difference between varnish & lacquer.

Looking it up by a variety of sources, Wikipedia included, the
difference is interesting ... but after looking that up, I'm still
not sure how you know it's lacquer.

Because no manufacturer would use varnish because it dries so
slowly. Ditto commercial furniture - lacquer finish.

Why wouldn't they use a UV-cured epoxy, or some such? Much faster
than any of the above.

Maybe they do, no idea. It would depend on cost I would guess.

It's used on flooring (many coats, even), why not on even a cheap
square?

Because flooring sells formore?

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

[[email protected]]

On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 13:40:45 -0500, "dadiOH" wrote:

wrote:
On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 10:32:04 -0500, "dadiOH"
wrote:

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 4 Feb 2012 15:37:32 -0500, "dadiOH"
wrote:

Chuck Banshee wrote:
On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 11:40:26 -0500, dadiOH wrote:

It wouldn't be varnish, it would be lacquer.
A bit of lacquer thinner will remove it.

Ooops. I don't know the difference between varnish & lacquer.

Looking it up by a variety of sources, Wikipedia included, the
difference is interesting ... but after looking that up, I'm still
not sure how you know it's lacquer.

Because no manufacturer would use varnish because it dries so
slowly. Ditto commercial furniture - lacquer finish.

Why wouldn't they use a UV-cured epoxy, or some such? Much faster
than any of the above.

Maybe they do, no idea. It would depend on cost I would guess.

It's used on flooring (many coats, even), why not on even a cheap
square?

Because flooring sells formore?

$1/ft^2 flooring uses UV treated coatings. Several coats. Even a cheap
square is what, $10?

[gregz]

" wrote:
On Sat, 4 Feb 2012 15:37:32 -0500, "dadiOH" wrote:

Chuck Banshee wrote:
On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 11:40:26 -0500, dadiOH wrote:

It wouldn't be varnish, it would be lacquer.
A bit of lacquer thinner will remove it.

Ooops. I don't know the difference between varnish & lacquer.

Looking it up by a variety of sources, Wikipedia included, the
difference is interesting ... but after looking that up, I'm still
not sure how you know it's lacquer.

Because no manufacturer would use varnish because it dries so slowly. Ditto
commercial furniture - lacquer finish.

Why wouldn't they use a UV-cured epoxy, or some such? Much faster than any of
the above.

Lacquer seems to be a thinner coating. They could easily use acrylic enamel
with the hardener, used on practically all cars. It sets up fast.

Greg

[Jim Yanik]

joevan wrote in
:

I had a bit of something called neutra rust a long time ago. It was
watery like solution and I used some on a rusting pipe railing and it
has not rusted in 15 years or more. I ran out of the stuff and now
cannot find where to by more. Anyone have a place to buy it or a
replacement for such?

if you mean the rust-converting solution,then an auto store,like PepBoys or
Auto Zone. There also are paints that have the rust-converting ingredients.

if you want rust removing stuff,try a woodworker's store,stuff Like
Boeshield T-9.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

[joevan]

On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 17:47:38 -0600, Jim Yanik
wrote:

joevan wrote in
:

I had a bit of something called neutra rust a long time ago. It was
watery like solution and I used some on a rusting pipe railing and it
has not rusted in 15 years or more. I ran out of the stuff and now
cannot find where to by more. Anyone have a place to buy it or a
replacement for such?

if you mean the rust-converting solution,then an auto store,like PepBoys or
Auto Zone. There also are paints that have the rust-converting ingredients.

if you want rust removing stuff,try a woodworker's store,stuff Like
Boeshield T-9.
Thanks, Sounds just like what I was looking for.

[Chuck Banshee]

Update: You guys were right all along!

The crazing didn't look like rust at the crazed parts - but - at the end,
where the varnish/lacquer peeled up - it certainly did look like rust
underneath.

Here's a closeup:
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7508284.jpg

I think I'll just replace it.

[dadiOH[_3_]]

Chuck Banshee wrote:
Update: You guys were right all along!

The crazing didn't look like rust at the crazed parts - but - at the
end, where the varnish/lacquer peeled up - it certainly did look like
rust underneath.

Here's a closeup:
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7508284.jpg

I think I'll just replace it.

Stainless steel would be good.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

[Oren[_2_]]

On Mon, 6 Feb 2012 15:13:25 -0500, "dadiOH"
wrote:

Here's a closeup:
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7508284.jpg

I think I'll just replace it.

Stainless steel would be good.

Ah, I didn't realize they came in SS. (test it with a magnet)..

[Jim Yanik]

Chuck Banshee wrote in
:

Update: You guys were right all along!

The crazing didn't look like rust at the crazed parts - but - at the
end, where the varnish/lacquer peeled up - it certainly did look like
rust underneath.

Here's a closeup:
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7508284.jpg

I think I'll just replace it.



Wasteful....a little elbow grease,and you're restored a good tool.

I had to use steel wool to clean my square's steel rule,and then I sprayed
it with Krylon crystal clear. wipe the rule with paint first to fill in the
markings for an easier read.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com