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Pinhole in 2" Steam pipe



 
 
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  #11  
Old December 30th 11, 06:00 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 3,491
Default Pinhole in 2" Steam pipe

wrote the following:
On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 04:51:22 -0800 (PST), Mikepier
wrote:

Last night while checking on one of the buildings I manage, I noticed
a pinhole leak coming from a 2" steel pipe that enters the side of the
boiler. The leak is not at the boiler, but at the top of the pipe
( it's a horizontal pipe). Fortunately it is above the water line. I
assume its probably because of corrosion, but in any event I shut down
the boiler and went to a nearby hardware store and purchased 2 part
epoxy, and applied it to the pinhole. Waited about an hour, fired up
the boiler and let it get to full steam at about 3PSI. I saw no leaks
after sitting there about an hour monitoring the situation. I'm
wondering how long it will hold. But one thing I noticed is the epoxy
dried as hard as steel.

How are these pinhole leaks usually repaired? I heard of JBweld, but
you need to wait a while until it sets, plus its rated to only 200-250
degrees. The stuff I used is rated to 300 degrees.


The only other way is to replace the pipe. You'll probably be doing
that soon anyhow. Once there is one leak, another will come soon.

Where did you read that about JB Weld? I've used it on engine blocks
and exhaust pipes with no problems. Or is that the JB Kwik (Quick
drying)? JB Weld is an epoxy, but has always been rated better than
others. But they may have new epoxy made to copy JB Weld these days.


He didn't say what type of epoxy he used, but he was wrong about the JB
epoxy. JB Kwik is rated to 300F and bonds in 4 minutes. Cures in 4 hours.
The regular JB Weld is rated to 500F, sets in about 5 hours, and cures
in about 15 hours.
I have used the JB Weld and it remains runny for a long time. I didn't
time it, but when checking it after after an hour or so, I could still
move the epoxy. It also still stuck to my finger.



Is your epoxy clear, or gray? What brand?

Sounds like you solved the problem at least for awhile.



--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeros after @
Ads
  #12  
Old December 30th 11, 06:36 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 402
Default Pinhole in 2" Steam pipe

On Dec 30, 12:41*pm, Mikepier wrote:
Usually I just cut the pipe with a sawzall, leaving the stub of pipe
sticking out of the fitting. Then I cut 2 small notches inside the
stub, cutting it in 2, and it comes out clean.


That's probably the safest way to do it. If you go romping on the pipe
trying to remove it, you're likely to end up damaging the plumbing
further down the line.

Spent a lot of time as a kid helping the old man chase down rotten old
iron pipes in the barn. Seemed like you always ended up replacing
three pipes for every one that leaked because you wrecked them getting
to the leaky pipe.
  #13  
Old December 30th 11, 06:48 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 1,014
Default Pinhole in 2" Steam pipe

In article ,
Vic Smith wrote:
On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 09:09:18 -0800 (PST), Mikepier
wrote:


I always thought it was not a good idea to add anything to the boiler.
I even heard flushing out the boiler and adding new water is bad cause
it adds more oxygen, which means more corrosion.


I used a corrosion inhibitor in my hot water system, but can't speak
for residential steam boilers.
Since it's pretty new, you should check the manual.
You should replace that pipe ASAP.
If it breaks with somebody nearby it could kill them.
Guy I worked with got killed opening an overhead steam trap on a
depressurized line.
Just the water running out scalded him to death.
U.S. Steel, South Works.

--Vic




Residential steam heat boilers could burn someone but don't operate
at the pressures and temperatures that industrial systems do. Fatal injury
from a residential steam leak is extremely unlikely.
--
Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler. (Albert Einstein)

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org
  #14  
Old December 30th 11, 08:00 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 55
Default Pinhole in 2" Steam pipe

Better to use pipe on the wrenche handles which give you the added leverage.
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
The only time I worked with two inch pipe, it took some monster big
wrenches. And a fireman who lifted weights. I can easily imagine the
appeal
of an epoxy patch. One time, myself and my boss both wrenched on one
fitting, and the two of us working together didn't have enough power to
loosen the thread. The job boss, a fireman, did what us two cripples could
not.

One trick I've heard, but not tried. Heat the fitting with a torch. As the
fitting is cooling, use a wax candle to drip paraffin on the threads. The
fitting cools, and sucks in the paraffin, which lubricates the threads.
Please let us know if this does any good.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Mikepier" wrote in message
...
The epoxy is made by Permatex. This is the product I used. Dries in
grey color.

http://www.permatex.com/products/Aut...etal_Epoxy.htm

Also the boiler is only 2 years old, but the piping I'm sure is a lot
older. Fortunately the problem pipe can be removed since there is a
union fitting not to far from it, so its not like I have to
disassemble a lot, but it is very heavy pipe, at least 2" and 2-1/2"
steel piping.




  #15  
Old December 30th 11, 09:37 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 463
Default Pinhole in 2" Steam pipe

On 12/30/2011 10:00 AM, willshak wrote:


He didn't say what type of epoxy he used, but he was wrong about the JB
epoxy. JB Kwik is rated to 300F and bonds in 4 minutes. Cures in 4 hours.
The regular JB Weld is rated to 500F, sets in about 5 hours, and cures
in about 15 hours.
I have used the JB Weld and it remains runny for a long time. I didn't
time it, but when checking it after after an hour or so, I could still
move the epoxy. It also still stuck to my finger.


I use regular JB Weld from Lowes to make pallets of scrap circuit board
material to go through our convection soldering oven. We do both leaded
solder paste and lead-free solder paste. The pallets go through the oven
hundreds of times without epoxy problems. The circuit board material
begins to delaminate, but the JB Weld is still good. It does get rather
brittle, however.

I have been able to speed up the setting and curing of JB Weld using a
heat gun to raise the temperature of the material. Usually is set by the
second hour of occasionally heating all the joints. It still lasts as
long as joints left alone for 24 hours.

Paul
  #16  
Old December 30th 11, 10:43 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 4,724
Default Pinhole in 2" Steam pipe

The cheater pipe has the advantage of speed. But, it's likely to over do the
force on the wrenches, and break a wrench.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"don &/or Lucille" wrote in message
...
Better to use pipe on the wrenche handles which give you the added leverage.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
One trick I've heard, but not tried. Heat the fitting with a torch. As the
fitting is cooling, use a wax candle to drip paraffin on the threads. The
fitting cools, and sucks in the paraffin, which lubricates the threads.
Please let us know if this does any good.



  #17  
Old December 31st 11, 03:18 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 5,645
Default Pinhole in 2" Steam pipe

On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 09:09:18 -0800 (PST), Mikepier
wrote:




I always thought it was not a good idea to add anything to the boiler.
I even heard flushing out the boiler and adding new water is bad cause
it adds more oxygen, which means more corrosion.


Adding water does add oxygen. Chemical treatment though, on some
boiler is a must. If it is a cast iron boiler and you have good
water, treatment is probably not needed. The Weil McLain section
boilers are rather hardy that way. If it is a water tube or fire
tube boiler, treatment may be needed. Industrial boilers are treated
and chemical balance is checked every day to be sure it is correct.

If you have a preheat tank, be sure the temperature is up as high as
possible as it helps get rid of oxygen. You may want to add an oxygen
scavenger too.

Boilers should be blown down on occasion to remove accumulated solids
and to check the operation of automatic shut-off devices.

You may want to check with an experience steam boiler operator or
treatment specialist to see what you really need. You can even take
courses for the operation of steam boilers, but they are geared
towards the industrial type of boiler, much more complex that an
apartment building, but still the same basics apply.
  #18  
Old December 31st 11, 03:24 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 5,645
Default Pinhole in 2" Steam pipe

On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 04:51:22 -0800 (PST), Mikepier
wrote:



How are these pinhole leaks usually repaired? I heard of JBweld, but
you need to wait a while until it sets, plus its rated to only 200-250
degrees. The stuff I used is rated to 300 degrees.


They can be welded if it is newish pipe, but not old corroded stuff. .
Using epoxy is, at best, a temporary fix. How old is the setup? If
it is a year or two, probably not a big deal, but if it is a 15 year
old pipe, there is probably little left to fix.

Steam condensate is high in carbonic acid and will cause pipe to
corrode quicker than plain water. You may want to have a test done to
see if chemical treatment is needed.

Be prepared to replace the pipe and possible another section or two.
  #19  
Old December 31st 11, 07:14 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 9,216
Default Pinhole in 2" Steam pipe

On Dec 30, 5:09*pm, Mikepier wrote:
On Dec 30, 10:38*am, harry wrote:





On Dec 30, 12:51*pm, Mikepier wrote:


Last night while checking on one of the buildings I manage, I noticed
a pinhole leak coming from a 2" steel pipe that enters the side of the
boiler. The leak is not at the boiler, but at the top of the pipe
( it's a horizontal pipe). Fortunately it is above the water line. I
assume its probably because of corrosion, but in any event I shut down
the boiler and went to a nearby hardware store and purchased 2 part
epoxy, and applied it to the pinhole. Waited about an hour, fired up
the boiler and let it get to full steam at about 3PSI. I saw no leaks
after sitting there about an hour monitoring the situation. I'm
wondering how long it will hold. But one thing I noticed is the epoxy
dried as hard as steel.


How are these pinhole leaks usually repaired? I heard of JBweld, but
you need to wait a while until it sets, plus its rated to only 200-250
degrees. The stuff I used is rated to 300 degrees.


You can make a good medium term repair using a bit of joint/flat sheet
gasket material placed over the pinhole held on witha radiator hose
clip/jubilee clip.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ho....screw.agr.jpg


However it wants to be fixed properly, ie pipework replaced.
The fact that this has happened indicates you want to look at the
water treatment in the boiler.


I always thought it was not a good idea to add anything to the boiler.
I even heard flushing out the boiler and adding new water is bad cause
it adds more oxygen, which means more corrosion.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Added chemicals "get" the oxygen and control the ph of the water.

If there is anything to "flush out" you have a problem. It can only
be corrosion products.

Any intermitantly used steam plant has major problems. When shut down,
air gets into the system causing corrosion. Conditions are ideal for
corrosion.

Steam heating is unsuited to smallish systems. It has been abandoned
for this purpose in most places.
It has none of the avantages a large system has and all of the
disadvantages.
Only in America.
  #20  
Old December 31st 11, 01:42 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 5,645
Default Pinhole in 2" Steam pipe

On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 23:14:21 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:




Steam heating is unsuited to smallish systems. It has been abandoned
for this purpose in most places.
It has none of the avantages a large system has and all of the
disadvantages.
Only in America.


You actually made sense, but then you had to add the last line to
insult a country. Are you really that much of a scumbag? You give
the rest of the Brits a bad name. You have a strange way of achieving
your orgasm.

You don't know the size of the system so to make a comment it is
inappropriate to use steam is wrong. One advantage of steam is the
ability to transport energy over long distances and to greater heights
than water. With water, you need much more power and larger pumps.
 




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