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#1
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Septic alarm
I'm hoping someone here has experience with septic system alarms and
can give me advice on my next step. I will give you the scoop (no pun intended) if someone responds. Thanks! |
#2
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Septic alarm
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#3
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Septic alarm
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#4
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Septic alarm
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#6
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Septic alarm
On 12/1/2011 6:04 PM, Paul Drahn wrote:
On 12/1/2011 1:13 PM, wrote: I'm hoping someone here has experience with septic system alarms and can give me advice on my next step. I will give you the scoop (no pun intended) if someone responds. Thanks! Do you mean the alarm that sounds when the pump fails to operate and the tank is full? Paul Heard there can be alarm when tank is full and pump works but field is saturated and can't take any more grey water. I've had neighbors with pump failures. Thankfully mine is strictly gravity fed. |
#7
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Septic alarm
On Dec 1, 5:53*pm, RBM wrote:
* Thanks! OK, what are the symptoms? OK thanks for the responses. Here's the story. I'm hoping someone will be able to give me advice and possibly how-to direction. We had heavy rains a couple of days ago. My septic alarm went off during the rain (when no water was being used in the house). The alarm has stayed on ever since. System is 13 years old (with pump replaced 5 years ago). Today I had the chambers pumped, but first I wanted to check the pump well to see what the problem is. The water level in the well was low (below the pump float threshold). The alarm float was dangling straight down, a couple of feet from the top. The septic worker diagnosed the problem to be with the alarm float. He raised the pump float and the pump turned on, so the pump is fine. After jiggling the alarm float I checked the alarm inside and it was still on. So my questions center on the alarm float. I have a couple of quotes at around $250 (parts and labor). Can I do the repair myself and would it be worth it? There is a alarm box in the basement that plugs into a power receptacle. The alarm box has one cord running from it through the basement wall, underground and feeds into the pump chamber. The hole in the basement wall is sealed with soft putty. Thoughts? Thanks in advance. |
#8
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Septic alarm
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#9
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Septic alarm
On Dec 1, 10:40*pm, RBM wrote:
As far as the alarm part of the system goes, there should be a pair of wires, or a two wire rubber cord going from the alarm box to the alarm float in the pit. The problem is either a bad float, or a bad cord, where the wires have shorted together internally, causing the alarm to stay on. Depending upon how the wiring was installed, it could be a very easy installation. Thanks for your reply. I agree with your assessment. The question is though, would I be able to troubleshoot this myself? I have a multi-meter and some electronics knowledge, but I'm not a elec. wiz. Granted this situation isn't rocket science. Is there a quick way to get to the core of this on my own? TIA |
#10
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Septic alarm
On Dec 1, 10:25*pm, wrote:
On Dec 1, 10:40*pm, RBM wrote: As far as the alarm part of the system goes, there should be a pair of wires, or a two wire rubber cord going from the alarm box to the alarm float in the pit. The problem is either a bad float, or a bad cord, where the wires have shorted together internally, causing the alarm to stay on. Depending upon how the wiring was installed, it could be a very easy installation. * Thanks for your reply. I agree with your assessment. The question is though, would I be able to troubleshoot this myself? I have a multi-meter and some electronics knowledge, but I'm not a elec. wiz. Granted this situation isn't rocket science. * Is there a quick way to get to the core of this on my own? *TIA How accessible is the alarm float? If you totally remove power at the house, and then cut the wires going to the float at a point where you can replace the float, then you can cut the wires, make sure the ends of the two conductors coming from the house are not touching each other, then plug it in back at the house. The alarm should be off. Assuming it is off, then the float alarm is defective and you should replace it. If the alarm is still on when you repower it, with the wires cut, then there is a defect/short in the wiring somewhere. Sounds like you are reasonably capable, just need some reassurance. |
#11
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Septic alarm
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#12
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Septic alarm
wrote the following:
I'm hoping someone here has experience with septic system alarms and can give me advice on my next step. I will give you the scoop (no pun intended) if someone responds. Thanks! So the Septic cleaner guy didn't know how to fix/reset the alarm? I would think that it would be part of his training. I have a septic tank, but no alarm. Try this google search result https://www.google.com/search?q=sept...roubleshooting -- Bill In Hamptonburgh, NY In the original Orange County. Est. 1683 To email, remove the double zeroes after @ |
#13
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Septic alarm
On Dec 2, 9:56*am, willshak wrote:
So the Septic cleaner guy didn't know how to fix/reset the alarm? I would think that it would be part of his training. I have a septic tank, but no alarm. Try this google search resulthttps://www.google.com/search?q=septic+tank+alarm+troubleshooting Yeah I was hoping that the septic cleaner guy would get at the alarm problem. After all, that was really the whole point of the call to him. I figured once someone is coming over to get at the alarm, they may as well clean out the tanks, because it's been five years since they were pumped out. Well after he was done pumping out the tanks he said he couldn't fix the alarm and gave me the name of a company who could do it! $367.25 CAN later.... I'm curious how you get by without an alarm? Do you have a pump with your system that pumps out to higher ground? What if the pump should fail? How would you know about it before the sewage backs up into your house? |
#14
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Septic alarm
On Dec 1, 10:40*pm, RBM wrote:
... The problem is either a bad float, or a bad cord, where the wires have shorted together internally, causing the alarm to stay on. I had another hunch last night. I said to myself, maybe there is a problem at the alarm box inside the house? After messing around with it for a few minutes, it would turn off, but there was a hum/vibration coming from it, so I knew it wasn't stable. So I decided to unplug the unit completely and go to sleep. Today when I just plugged it in, BINGO! It was reset, no hum/vibration. If only I had done this test before the septic guy came over. |
#15
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Septic alarm
On Dec 2, 2:35*pm, wrote:
On Dec 1, 10:40*pm, RBM wrote: ... The problem is either a bad float, or a bad cord, where the wires have shorted together internally, causing the alarm to stay on. * I had another hunch last night. I said to myself, maybe there is a problem at the alarm box inside the house? After messing around with it for a few minutes, it would turn off, but there was a hum/vibration coming from it, so I knew it wasn't stable. So I decided to unplug the unit completely and go to sleep. Today when I just plugged it in, BINGO! It was reset, no hum/vibration. If only I had done this test before the septic guy came over. * OK, now I'm confused and ****ed. The alarm just went off again, Two hours after I plugged it in after it was reset. No rain outside, no water was used in the house for the last two hours. I went downstairs just now to play with the alarm box again, and before I could reach for it, it turned itself off! Guidance as to what I should do now (at minimal cost) would be appreciated. TIA |
#16
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Septic alarm
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#17
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Septic alarm
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#18
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Septic alarm
On Dec 2, 6:25*pm, RBM wrote:
Typical systems work on gravity and don't use pumps. At the top of the septic tank is an exit pipe or pipes that go to the fields where the liquids are dissipated. The solids fall the the bottom of the tank, and those that are not broken down by bacteria eventually get pumped out by the septic company. When your fields are uphill from the septic tank location, you add a second usually smaller tank for the effluent to overflow into, and from there it's pumped uphill to the field location Yes I realize the difference between gravity-based and pump-based systems. I figured Will had read my post and seen that I have a pump-based system. Of course a gravity-based system wouldn't need an alarm usually. That is why, when he said he didn't have an alarm, I thought he probably had a gravity based system, but wondered why he mentioned it (as it would be obvious). Thus my questions. |
#19
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Septic alarm
On Dec 2, 5:10*pm, RBM wrote:
On the basic residential systems, there is no "reset". There is usually an on off switch, an alarm test switch, and an alarm off switch. To prove the alarm box is OK remove the two wires from the alarm terminals. There should be some sort of marking, or take a picture and link us to it Thanks RBM. I'm not sure where you are leading to in your post. On my alarm box I do have a 'reset' switch. The 'On' is coupled to a 'reset'. It says 'On/Reset'. The other pole is 'Silent' and just shows a red light when it turns on. There is another switch called 'Test' and this is a release one-pole switch which sounds the alarm when the test is positive. When you say remove the wires from the alarm terminals, you are saying open the box to do this? When you say there should be some sort of marking, do you mean a marking to show where the terminal is, or do you mean that once the wires are removed I would see a marking due to a short that occurred? Since it spontaneously turned on and then off again around 4:30 pm this afternoon it has been silent! It's now 10:45 pm. |
#22
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Septic alarm
RBM wrote:
On 12/2/2011 4:25 PM, wrote: Guidance as to what I should do now (at minimal cost) would be appreciated. . . . . . There should be some sort of marking, or take a picture and link us to it google3luo359, If you take a picture of it, you can upload the picture to http://tinypic.com/ for free, and you can get back a URL link to the picture that you could post here. |
#23
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Septic alarm
On Dec 2, 11:07*pm, RBM wrote:
... To determine if there is a fault in the control itself, and not the float or float wiring, you need to disconnect the float wiring from it's terminals. OK, I think I see where you are going with this. Because you didn't say what test I should do after, it wasn't clear. Here's the story now. As I mentioned, yesterday the alarm went off spontaneously* at around 4:30 pm for one minute. It was silent from then until today. Today it went off spontaneously at 10:32 am for one minute. So yeah, I'm going to open the box today and investigate. Here's my thinking. Tell me if I'm going in the right direction. I remove the alarm float wires going into the alarm box. I then do a continuity check of the alarm float wire. If there is a loop, then the alarm float is stuck ON. If there is no loop, the alarm float is OK (for now) and there must be an intermittent problem with either the wiring from the float to the alarm box, or somewhere in the alarm box. My hunch now is the following. The alarm went off with a true positive a few days ago with the big rain we had. I silenced the alarm (just the red light was turned on) and it stayed like that for more than a day. At some point the water level went down (pump was working) but the alarm didn't turn off (stuck) despite the alarm float being in the off position. The 24 hr. + on, inside the alarm box must have fatigued it in some manner, and now it is 'flaky'. spontaneously* = no rain, no water use in house |
#24
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Septic alarm
OK I opened the box and took some photos.
Here's the best one: https://skydrive.live.com/#cid=192A1...BAC76052E3!197 I did a couple of continuity tests. I disconnected the leads to the alarm float. My ohm-meter shows 100K across the leads to the alarm float. Is this a reading for an OPEN switch or a CLOSED switch? What other tests should I do to troubleshoot? Thanks! |
#25
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Septic alarm
On 12/3/2011 2:46 PM, wrote:
OK I opened the box and took some photos. Here's the best one: https://skydrive.live.com/#cid=192A1...BAC76052E3!197 I did a couple of continuity tests. I disconnected the leads to the alarm float. My ohm-meter shows 100K across the leads to the alarm float. Is this a reading for an OPEN switch or a CLOSED switch? What other tests should I do to troubleshoot? Thanks! Since your problem is intermittent, the only thing you want to determine by disconnecting the alarm wires from the panel, is the integrity of the panel itself. After some period of time, if it still goes off intermittently without the float wires connected, you know the problem is in the panel itself. Once you determine that the panel is OK, you reconnect the wires for the alarm and cut the float off at whatever junction box or connection point you have access to, and insulate the two wires. If the alarm still goes off intermittently, you have bad wiring. If it doesn't go off now, you have a bad float |
#26
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Septic alarm
On Dec 3, 3:36*pm, RBM wrote:
Since your problem is intermittent, the only thing you want to determine by disconnecting the alarm wires from the panel, is the integrity of the panel itself. After some period of time, if it still goes off intermittently without the float wires connected, you know the problem is in the panel itself. Once you determine that the panel is OK, you reconnect the wires for the alarm and cut the float off at whatever junction box or connection point you have access to, and insulate the two wires. If the alarm still goes off intermittently, you have bad wiring. If it doesn't go off now, you have a bad float I am with you on most of this. There are just a couple of things that need clearing up. When I was reading up on septic alarm systems I saw that there were two main ways of installing systems. The cheaper way was to use a stand-alone alarm box that was wired to the alarm float in the septic pump chamber. The more expensive way was to use a panel and from there the circuit went to an alarm and also to the septic alarm float. The builder of my house chose to use the cheaper route and so there is no panel. You kept mentioning 'panel' so I'm not sure if you were referring to the second method above or not. Perhaps by 'panel' you were just referring to the 'circuit board' inside the alarm box? Since your problem is intermittent, the only thing you want to determine by disconnecting the alarm wires from the panel, is the integrity of the panel itself. The reason I am confused is because you talk about disconnecting the 'alarm wires from the panel'. Then you talk about 'without the float wires connected'. That I understand. So I have left the float wires disconnected from the alarm box and have powered up the box. If the alarm now goes off, the problem is obviously within the alarm box and nothing to do with the alarm float or the wiring going from the float to the box. I have a strong suspicion that the alarm won't go off now. That the problem is with the float/wiring. Once you determine that the panel is OK, you reconnect the wires for the alarm and cut the float off at whatever junction box or connection point you have access to, and insulate the two wires. If the alarm still goes off intermittently, you have bad wiring. If it doesn't go off now, you have a bad float Here's where I lose you again. If I substitute "the panel is OK" with "the alarm box is OK" I don't follow you about reconnecting the alarm wires? The alarm wires are all inside the alarm box. I basically have: Alarm box---------power plug ---------alarm float wire ----------alarm float that's it. |
#27
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Septic alarm
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#28
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Septic alarm
wrote in message
... OK I opened the box and took some photos. Here's the best one: https://skydrive.live.com/#cid=192A1...BAC76052E3!197 Just as an FYI, the photo link doesn't work for me. When I click on it, it asks me for a Windows Live ID and password, but there is no photo visible. |
#29
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Septic alarm
On 12/3/2011 7:56 PM, Jazzer wrote:
On Dec 3, 3:36 pm, wrote: Since your problem is intermittent, the only thing you want to determine by disconnecting the alarm wires from the panel, is the integrity of the panel itself. After some period of time, if it still goes off intermittently without the float wires connected, you know the problem is in the panel itself. Once you determine that the panel is OK, you reconnect the wires for the alarm and cut the float off at whatever junction box or connection point you have access to, and insulate the two wires. If the alarm still goes off intermittently, you have bad wiring. If it doesn't go off now, you have a bad float I am with you on most of this. There are just a couple of things that need clearing up. When I was reading up on septic alarm systems I saw that there were two main ways of installing systems. The cheaper way was to use a stand-alone alarm box that was wired to the alarm float in the septic pump chamber. The more expensive way was to use a panel and from there the circuit went to an alarm and also to the septic alarm float. The builder of my house chose to use the cheaper route and so there is no panel. You kept mentioning 'panel' so I'm not sure if you were referring to the second method above or not. Perhaps by 'panel' you were just referring to the 'circuit board' inside the alarm box? Since your problem is intermittent, the only thing you want to determine by disconnecting the alarm wires from the panel, is the integrity of the panel itself. The reason I am confused is because you talk about disconnecting the 'alarm wires from the panel'. Then you talk about 'without the float wires connected'. That I understand. So I have left the float wires disconnected from the alarm box and have powered up the box. If the alarm now goes off, the problem is obviously within the alarm box and nothing to do with the alarm float or the wiring going from the float to the box. I have a strong suspicion that the alarm won't go off now. That the problem is with the float/wiring. Once you determine that the panel is OK, you reconnect the wires for the alarm and cut the float off at whatever junction box or connection point you have access to, and insulate the two wires. If the alarm still goes off intermittently, you have bad wiring. If it doesn't go off now, you have a bad float Here's where I lose you again. If I substitute "the panel is OK" with "the alarm box is OK" I don't follow you about reconnecting the alarm wires? The alarm wires are all inside the alarm box. I basically have: Alarm box---------power plug ---------alarm float wire ----------alarm float that's it. There are a bunch of types and styles of septic pump/ alarm controllers. The one he has is mounted in an alarm panel. That panel may or may not control the pump as well. |
#30
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Septic alarm
On 12/3/2011 8:59 PM, Ron wrote:
wrote in message ... OK I opened the box and took some photos. Here's the best one: https://skydrive.live.com/#cid=192A1...BAC76052E3!197 Just as an FYI, the photo link doesn't work for me. When I click on it, it asks me for a Windows Live ID and password, but there is no photo visible. Doesn't work for me either. |
#31
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Septic alarm
On Dec 3, 9:06*pm, RBM wrote:
On 12/3/2011 7:56 PM, Jazzer wrote: On Dec 3, 3:36 pm, *wrote: Since your problem is intermittent, the only thing you want to determine by disconnecting the alarm wires from the panel, is the integrity of the panel itself. After some period of time, if it still goes off intermittently without the float wires connected, you know the problem is in the panel itself. Once you determine that the panel is OK, you reconnect the wires for the alarm and cut the float off at whatever junction box or connection point you have access to, and insulate the two wires. If the alarm still goes off intermittently, you have bad wiring. If it doesn't go off now, you have a bad float I am with you on most of this. There are just a couple of things that need clearing up. When I was reading up on septic alarm systems I saw that there were two main ways of installing systems. The cheaper way was to use a stand-alone alarm box that was wired to the alarm float in the septic pump chamber. The more expensive way was to use a panel and from there the circuit went to an alarm and also to the septic alarm float. The builder of my house chose to use the cheaper route and so there is no panel. You kept mentioning 'panel' so I'm not sure if you were referring to the second method above or not. Perhaps by 'panel' you were just referring to the 'circuit board' inside the alarm box? Since your problem is intermittent, the only thing you want to determine by disconnecting the alarm wires from the panel, is the integrity of the panel itself. The reason I am confused is because you talk about disconnecting the 'alarm wires from the panel'. Then you talk about 'without the float wires connected'. That I understand. So I have left the float wires disconnected from the alarm box and have powered up the box. If the alarm now goes off, the problem is obviously within the alarm box and nothing to do with the alarm float or the wiring going from the float to the box. I have a strong suspicion that the alarm won't go off now. That the problem is with the float/wiring. Once you determine that the panel is OK, you reconnect the wires for the alarm and cut the float off at whatever junction box or connection point you have access to, and insulate the two wires. If the alarm still goes off intermittently, you have bad wiring. If it doesn't go off now, you have a bad float Here's where I lose you again. If I substitute "the panel is OK" with "the alarm box is OK" *I don't follow you about reconnecting the alarm wires? The alarm wires are all inside the alarm box. I basically have: * Alarm box---------power plug * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ---------alarm float wire ----------alarm float that's it. There are a bunch of types and styles of septic pump/ alarm controllers. The one he has is mounted in an alarm panel. That panel may or may not control the pump as well. Sorry for confusing you! I logged in as Jazzer by mistake. My alarm box (panel) only controls my alarm. My septic pump/float for pump is completely separate from the alarm. |
#32
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Septic alarm
On Dec 3, 9:08*pm, RBM wrote:
https://skydrive.live.com/#cid=192A1...BAC76052E3!197 Just as an FYI, the photo link doesn't work for me. When I click on it, it asks me for a Windows Live ID and password, but there is no photo visible. Doesn't work for me either. Sorry about that! Try this link: https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx...uW y91TeWZSpU |
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