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Default Ventless Propane Stoves

I'm seriously considering replacing my pellet stove that I use to heat
the downstairs of my house with a ventless propane stove.

The pellet stove is to problematic and when it gets to the point it
needs cleaning it will dump still smoldering ash into the ash pan and
too much smoke gets into the house. And when the wind blows in a
certain direction hard enough in the winter it effects how easily the
smoke gets out the chimney and backs some of that up into the stove
and some of that gets into the house and the stove doesn't burn
properly. And when an igniter goes out and has to be replaced, it
almost always happens in the middle of the night and is a PITA to
replace.

My problem is that I don't know much about those propane stoves. How
much crap does the ventless ones put in the air inside the house? I
don't think you can have combustion efficient enough to not put some
smoke or contaminants in the air. Do they break down all the time
too?

In the stores I've visited, I've only seen the ventless ones. Do they
make one that I can add a chimney too and vent the smoke outside?

I don't have the most air tight house in the world but it's not too
drafty either.

I don't have a propane tank so I will need to get one. I would also
get a CO detector, an O2 detector and and see if there is something
that will detect a gas leak. One stove I looked at already has a low
oxygen detector but I would want to make sure I have some sort of low
oxygen warning system if the stove doesn't have it or maybe even
double up on it even if the stove does.

What other questions can you folks thing of I should be asking.

Any tips and advice would be appreciated.

-C-
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Default Ventless Propane Stoves


"Country" wrote in message ...
I'm seriously considering replacing my pellet stove that I use to heat
the downstairs of my house with a ventless propane stove.


personally i would NEVER have a propane device in a home with a below grade crawl space or even worse a basement.

propane is heavier than air and gas escaping from a leaky fitting will collect in low spots. when the conditions are right....KABOOM!
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On 11/1/2011 7:27 AM, Country wrote:
I'm seriously considering replacing my pellet stove that I use to heat
the downstairs of my house with a ventless propane stove.

The pellet stove is to problematic and when it gets to the point it
needs cleaning it will dump still smoldering ash into the ash pan and
too much smoke gets into the house. And when the wind blows in a
certain direction hard enough in the winter it effects how easily the
smoke gets out the chimney and backs some of that up into the stove
and some of that gets into the house and the stove doesn't burn
properly. And when an igniter goes out and has to be replaced, it
almost always happens in the middle of the night and is a PITA to
replace.

My problem is that I don't know much about those propane stoves. How
much crap does the ventless ones put in the air inside the house? I
don't think you can have combustion efficient enough to not put some
smoke or contaminants in the air. Do they break down all the time
too?

In the stores I've visited, I've only seen the ventless ones. Do they
make one that I can add a chimney too and vent the smoke outside?

I don't have the most air tight house in the world but it's not too
drafty either.

I don't have a propane tank so I will need to get one. I would also
get a CO detector, an O2 detector and and see if there is something
that will detect a gas leak. One stove I looked at already has a low
oxygen detector but I would want to make sure I have some sort of low
oxygen warning system if the stove doesn't have it or maybe even
double up on it even if the stove does.

What other questions can you folks thing of I should be asking.

Any tips and advice would be appreciated.

-C-

i have 2 propane (vented) fireplaces. every year before i turn on the
pilot i have to clean the inside of the glass to get rid of the soot, so
there must be something coming out of it that would go into your house
if unvented.
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Default Ventless Propane Stoves

On Nov 1, 12:07*pm, chaniarts wrote:
On 11/1/2011 7:27 AM, Country wrote:







I'm seriously considering replacing my pellet stove that I use to heat
the downstairs of my house with a ventless propane stove.


The pellet stove is to problematic and when it gets to the point it
needs cleaning it will dump still smoldering ash into the ash pan and
too much smoke gets into the house. And when the wind blows in a
certain direction hard enough in the winter it effects how easily the
smoke gets out the chimney and backs some of that up into the stove
and some of that gets into the house and the stove doesn't burn
properly. And when an igniter goes out and has to be replaced, it
almost always happens in the middle of the night and is a PITA to
replace.


My problem is that I don't know much about those propane stoves. How
much crap does the ventless ones put in the air inside the house? I
don't think you can have combustion efficient enough to not put some
smoke or contaminants in the air. Do they break down all the time
too?


In the stores I've visited, I've only seen the ventless ones. Do they
make one that I can add a chimney too and vent the smoke outside?


I don't have the most air tight house in the world but it's not too
drafty either.


I don't have a propane tank so I will need to get one. I would also
get a CO detector, an O2 detector and and see if there is something
that will detect a gas leak. One stove I looked at already has a low
oxygen detector but I would want to make sure I have some sort of low
oxygen warning system if the stove doesn't have it or maybe even
double up on it even if the stove does.


What other questions can you folks thing of I should be asking.


Any tips and advice would be appreciated.


-C-


i have 2 propane (vented) fireplaces. every year before i turn on the
pilot i have to clean the inside of the glass to get rid of the soot, so
there must be something coming out of it that would go into your house
if unvented.



Yeah, I looked around the internet more after posting this and found
some stuff that makes me think I had better go with a vented one. I
think I will call the HVAC place that maintains my heat pump and have
somebody come out and give me some recommendations.

I will stay away from the place that sold me the pellet stove. They do
all kinds of heating installations too but I wasn't very impressed
with the service people they sent out to work on the pellet stove when
the first igniter burned out.

-C-
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Default Ventless Propane Stoves

Country wrote:

I'm seriously considering replacing my pellet stove that I use to heat
the downstairs of my house with a ventless propane stove.


This is one of *those* annual threads.g I predict a long one.

I went from wood to ventless propane 12 years ago. at the time it
was a complete win. I was buying wood and I got more heat for less
money buying propane.

Propane has gone way up, but I think overall it is pretty close now,
moneywise.

What I *don't* have is work, mess, and uneven heating. When I want
heat I have it-- and when I don't, I turn it off.

-snip-
My problem is that I don't know much about those propane stoves. How
much crap does the ventless ones put in the air inside the house? I
don't think you can have combustion efficient enough to not put some
smoke or contaminants in the air.


Mine adds moisture. [which is welcome because the rest of the house
is heated with hot air. It is in a room with 6 windows and a door &
they never steam up-- so the amount of moisture is not harmful.]

It is a dust magnet, but the dust is clean. As far as I see, there
are no contaminants in the house.

Do they break down all the time too?


The first year after I bought mine I 'had' to buy a new igniter. [$32]
When it appeared to be bad the next fall I got looking around & saw
that the common cause of problems was a speck of dust. A blast with
a can of air cures them. Now I get 5-6 years out the igniter.
Other than that, I dust it each fall with a shop vac & I've wiped it
down with stove black a few year ago.



In the stores I've visited, I've only seen the ventless ones. Do they
make one that I can add a chimney too and vent the smoke outside?


They do. But there isn't any smoke-- you're venting moisture and hot
air.


I don't have the most air tight house in the world but it's not too
drafty either.

I don't have a propane tank so I will need to get one. I would also
get a CO detector, an O2 detector and and see if there is something
that will detect a gas leak. One stove I looked at already has a low
oxygen detector but I would want to make sure I have some sort of low
oxygen warning system if the stove doesn't have it or maybe even
double up on it even if the stove does.


O2 won't hurt--- but the CO & explosive gas detector is an absolute
must.


What other questions can you folks thing of I should be asking.


Some operate on a thermostat that uses degrees. Others have
'low-medium-high' dials. I wanted a thermostat with degrees, but
the missus fell in love with the design of the one we got & it had a
dial. It works fine.

Any tips and advice would be appreciated.



Check with you building inspector. [and propane supplier] In my area
there is a limit to the number of BTU's a ventless can have determined
by the size of the room.

There is a world of difference in propane suppliers. Some will give
you a great deal on an appliance in order to hook you. I got a
free water heater once from one. a year later my contract with them
was up and I told them I was moving to someone else & they lowered
their prices.

Jim


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chaniarts wrote:

-snip-
i have 2 propane (vented) fireplaces. every year before i turn on the
pilot i have to clean the inside of the glass to get rid of the soot, so
there must be something coming out of it that would go into your house
if unvented.


If you have soot, then your flame/air supply needs adjusting. Or
maybe you're burning up your logs-- are they charring?

Jim
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On 11/1/2011 10:28 AM, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
wrote:

-snip-
i have 2 propane (vented) fireplaces. every year before i turn on the
pilot i have to clean the inside of the glass to get rid of the soot, so
there must be something coming out of it that would go into your house
if unvented.


If you have soot, then your flame/air supply needs adjusting. Or
maybe you're burning up your logs-- are they charring?

Jim


the logs are ceramic. i doubt that they'd char.

a good fireplace will have some yellow flames along with the blue ones
for looks. yellow means incomplete combustion, so there must be
something that is left over.
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On 11/1/2011 10:27 AM, Country wrote:
I'm seriously considering replacing my pellet stove that I use to heat
the downstairs of my house with a ventless propane stove.

The pellet stove is to problematic and when it gets to the point it
needs cleaning it will dump still smoldering ash into the ash pan and
too much smoke gets into the house. And when the wind blows in a
certain direction hard enough in the winter it effects how easily the
smoke gets out the chimney and backs some of that up into the stove
and some of that gets into the house and the stove doesn't burn
properly. And when an igniter goes out and has to be replaced, it
almost always happens in the middle of the night and is a PITA to
replace.


Please tell us what brand and model pellet stove you have so we know
what to stay away from!
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On 11/1/2011 10:27 AM, Country wrote:
I'm seriously considering replacing my pellet stove that I use to heat
the downstairs of my house with a ventless propane stove.


Be sure to crunch some numbers first, around here with the cost of
propane so high, it's almost as expensive as resistive electric heat.
For me to fork out the money for a propane heater makes it a deal breaker.
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On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 18:53:51 -0400, Tony Miklos wrote:

On 11/1/2011 10:27 AM, Country wrote:
I'm seriously considering replacing my pellet stove that I use to heat
the downstairs of my house with a ventless propane stove.


Be sure to crunch some numbers first, around here with the cost of
propane so high, it's almost as expensive as resistive electric heat.
For me to fork out the money for a propane heater makes it a deal breaker.


Propane rarely makes sense BTU/BTU. I like the propane fireplace because it
only warms the area where we're sitting (which may even put it on par with the
heat pumps), looks nice, and is a *whole* lot easier than wood.


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On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 10:07:30 -0700, chaniarts
wrote:



i have 2 propane (vented) fireplaces. every year before i turn on the
pilot i have to clean the inside of the glass to get rid of the soot, so
there must be something coming out of it that would go into your house
if unvented.


No comparison. The vented are no where near the 99% plus of the
ventless. The vented are only 85% or so.
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On Tue, 1 Nov 2011 07:27:02 -0700 (PDT), Country
wrote:

I'm seriously considering replacing my pellet stove that I use to heat
the downstairs of my house with a ventless propane stove.




My problem is that I don't know much about those propane stoves. How
much crap does the ventless ones put in the air inside the house? I
don't think you can have combustion efficient enough to not put some
smoke or contaminants in the air. Do they break down all the time
too?


My son has one in his house. He's used it for the past 10 years with
no problems.

The main savings is that he does not have to heat the rest of the
house very much since it is an old, big, utility user. Propane is not
cheap, so run the numbers first if this is the primary fuel.
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Country wrote:
On Nov 1, 12:07 pm, chaniarts wrote:
On 11/1/2011 7:27 AM, Country wrote:







I'm seriously considering replacing my pellet stove that I use to heat
the downstairs of my house with a ventless propane stove.
The pellet stove is to problematic and when it gets to the point it
needs cleaning it will dump still smoldering ash into the ash pan and
too much smoke gets into the house. And when the wind blows in a
certain direction hard enough in the winter it effects how easily the
smoke gets out the chimney and backs some of that up into the stove
and some of that gets into the house and the stove doesn't burn
properly. And when an igniter goes out and has to be replaced, it
almost always happens in the middle of the night and is a PITA to
replace.
My problem is that I don't know much about those propane stoves. How
much crap does the ventless ones put in the air inside the house? I
don't think you can have combustion efficient enough to not put some
smoke or contaminants in the air. Do they break down all the time
too?
In the stores I've visited, I've only seen the ventless ones. Do they
make one that I can add a chimney too and vent the smoke outside?
I don't have the most air tight house in the world but it's not too
drafty either.
I don't have a propane tank so I will need to get one. I would also
get a CO detector, an O2 detector and and see if there is something
that will detect a gas leak. One stove I looked at already has a low
oxygen detector but I would want to make sure I have some sort of low
oxygen warning system if the stove doesn't have it or maybe even
double up on it even if the stove does.
What other questions can you folks thing of I should be asking.
Any tips and advice would be appreciated.
-C-

i have 2 propane (vented) fireplaces. every year before i turn on the
pilot i have to clean the inside of the glass to get rid of the soot, so
there must be something coming out of it that would go into your house
if unvented.



Yeah, I looked around the internet more after posting this and found
some stuff that makes me think I had better go with a vented one. I
think I will call the HVAC place that maintains my heat pump and have
somebody come out and give me some recommendations.

I will stay away from the place that sold me the pellet stove. They do
all kinds of heating installations too but I wasn't very impressed
with the service people they sent out to work on the pellet stove when
the first igniter burned out.

-C-

It'd be interesting to learn why you need wood or propane at all?
Can you get better cost/btu that you get with your heat pump?

50 years ago, we used open flame natural gas heaters with no protection,
no CO detectors, no nothing. Not a clue that there was any risk at all.
Amazing I'm still alive.

I've used unvented catalytic propane heaters in an RV. Put out WAY more
water
than I could tolerate. EVERYTHING was soaking wet.

I have a high-efficiency gas furnace that puts out a lot of water.
I called the gas company and asked if it was safe to eat stuff grown in
that water.
First answer was, "sure, it should be just fine". "Should"
set off my bull**** alarm.
When I pressed,
she went off to consult some technical person. Long story short, they
claim it's safe, but I shouldn't drink it. They refused to tell me the
concentrations of various impurities normally found in natural gas.
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On Nov 2, 4:03*pm, mike wrote:
Country wrote:
On Nov 1, 12:07 pm, chaniarts wrote:
On 11/1/2011 7:27 AM, Country wrote:


I'm seriously considering replacing my pellet stove that I use to heat
the downstairs of my house with a ventless propane stove.
The pellet stove is to problematic and when it gets to the point it
needs cleaning it will dump still smoldering ash into the ash pan and
too much smoke gets into the house. And when the wind blows in a
certain direction hard enough in the winter it effects how easily the
smoke gets out the chimney and backs some of that up into the stove
and some of that gets into the house and the stove doesn't burn
properly. And when an igniter goes out and has to be replaced, it
almost always happens in the middle of the night and is a PITA to
replace.
My problem is that I don't know much about those propane stoves. How
much crap does the ventless ones put in the air inside the house? I
don't think you can have combustion efficient enough to not put some
smoke or contaminants in the air. Do they break down all the time
too?
In the stores I've visited, I've only seen the ventless ones. Do they
make one that I can add a chimney too and vent the smoke outside?
I don't have the most air tight house in the world but it's not too
drafty either.
I don't have a propane tank so I will need to get one. I would also
get a CO detector, an O2 detector and and see if there is something
that will detect a gas leak. One stove I looked at already has a low
oxygen detector but I would want to make sure I have some sort of low
oxygen warning system if the stove doesn't have it or maybe even
double up on it even if the stove does.
What other questions can you folks thing of I should be asking.
Any tips and advice would be appreciated.
-C-
i have 2 propane (vented) fireplaces. every year before i turn on the
pilot i have to clean the inside of the glass to get rid of the soot, so
there must be something coming out of it that would go into your house
if unvented.


Yeah, I looked around the internet more after posting this and found
some stuff that makes me think I had better go with a vented one. I
think I will call the HVAC place that maintains my heat pump and have
somebody come out and give me some recommendations.


I will stay away from the place that sold me the pellet stove. They do
all kinds of heating installations too but I wasn't very impressed
with the service people they sent out to work on the pellet stove when
the first igniter burned out.


-C-


It'd be interesting to learn why you need wood or propane at all?
Can you get better cost/btu that you get with your heat pump?

50 years ago, we used open flame natural gas heaters with no protection,
no CO detectors, no nothing. *Not a clue that there was any risk at all..
Amazing I'm still alive.


....

I used to work on hobby-like projects with a friend in his garage. We
heated the space with a beat-up old kerosene heater and a really old
wrought iron 2 burner NG gas stove top. Toss in spray painting large
objects with the doors closed and the burners on, add a bit acetone to
clean our tools, some carbon fiber, fiberglass and bondo dust, and
I've often wondered why I can still think, never mind why am I still
alive.

We'd open the door every now and then and watch the cloud of fumes
roll out of the garage.

....

I've used unvented catalytic propane heaters in an RV. *Put out WAY more
water
than I could tolerate. *EVERYTHING was soaking wet.

I have a high-efficiency gas furnace that puts out a lot of water.
I called the gas company and asked if it was safe to eat stuff grown in
that water.
First answer was, "sure, it should be just fine". *"Should"
set off my bull**** alarm.
When I pressed,
she went off to consult some technical person. *Long story short, they
claim it's safe, but I shouldn't drink it. *They refused to tell me the
concentrations of various impurities normally found in natural gas


....

I've read that the condensate water is pretty acidic and proabably not
good for vegetables (or direct consumption) due to the trace toxins
left over from the incomplete burning of the NG. Mine drains into the
utility tub where it goes off to the water treatment plant for them to
deal with.

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I'd suggest vented. Just on the off chance that later
something goes wrong wrong and you get monoxide.

One propane co near me charges different for heat, or
cooking.

Talk to your neighbors, and see what really works in the
real world.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Country" wrote in message
...
I'm seriously considering replacing my pellet stove that I
use to heat
the downstairs of my house with a ventless propane stove.

The pellet stove is to problematic and when it gets to the
point it
needs cleaning it will dump still smoldering ash into the
ash pan and
too much smoke gets into the house. And when the wind blows
in a
certain direction hard enough in the winter it effects how
easily the
smoke gets out the chimney and backs some of that up into
the stove
and some of that gets into the house and the stove doesn't
burn
properly. And when an igniter goes out and has to be
replaced, it
almost always happens in the middle of the night and is a
PITA to
replace.

My problem is that I don't know much about those propane
stoves. How
much crap does the ventless ones put in the air inside the
house? I
don't think you can have combustion efficient enough to not
put some
smoke or contaminants in the air. Do they break down all the
time
too?

In the stores I've visited, I've only seen the ventless
ones. Do they
make one that I can add a chimney too and vent the smoke
outside?

I don't have the most air tight house in the world but it's
not too
drafty either.

I don't have a propane tank so I will need to get one. I
would also
get a CO detector, an O2 detector and and see if there is
something
that will detect a gas leak. One stove I looked at already
has a low
oxygen detector but I would want to make sure I have some
sort of low
oxygen warning system if the stove doesn't have it or maybe
even
double up on it even if the stove does.

What other questions can you folks thing of I should be
asking.

Any tips and advice would be appreciated.

-C-




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On Wed, 02 Nov 2011 13:03:39 -0700, mike wrote:



They refused to tell me the
concentrations of various impurities normally found in natural gas.


I imagine they could do that years ago. Today, just ask for an MSDS
sheet. They have them and will send it to you.

Google is your friend


SECTION II: COMPONENTS AND HAZARDS
COMPONENT FORMULA CAS NO. VOL% (TYP.) TLV (PPM) DOT#
Methane CH4 74-82-8 93.5 N/A UN1971
Ethane C2H6 74-84-0 3.8 N/A UN1035
Propane C3H8 74-98-6 1.0 1,000 UN1978
i-Butane C4H10 75-28-5 0.1 N/A UN1969
n-Butane C4H10 106-97-8 0.1 800 UN1011
i-Pentane C5H12 78-78-4 0.1 350 UN1265
n-Pentane C5H12 109-66-0 0.1 600 UN1265
n-Hexane C6H14 110-54-3 0.1 50 UN1208
Carbon Dioxide CO2 124-38-9 0.3 10,000 [OSHA] UN1013
Nitrogen N2 7727-37-9 1.2 N/A UN1066
t-Butyl Mercaptan C4H10S 75-66-1 30 ppm N/A UN2347
Methyl Ethyl Sulfide C2H6S 624-89-5 3 ppm 40,250 UN1993
Hydrogen Sulfide H2S 7783-06-4 5 ppm 10 UN1053
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Tony Miklos wrote:
On 11/1/2011 10:27 AM, Country wrote:
I'm seriously considering replacing my pellet stove that I use to heat
the downstairs of my house with a ventless propane stove.


Be sure to crunch some numbers first, around here with the cost of
propane so high, it's almost as expensive as resistive electric heat. For
me to fork out the money for a propane heater makes it a deal breaker.


Electric is way less than propane here. My brother saves money using
electric rather than oil furnace.

As far as saving money, I will chop wood out of the backyard.

Greg
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On Nov 2, 10:27*pm, gregz wrote:
Tony Miklos wrote:
On 11/1/2011 10:27 AM, Country wrote:
I'm seriously considering replacing my pellet stove that I use to heat
the downstairs of my house with a ventless propane stove.


Be sure to crunch some numbers first, around here with the cost of
propane so high, it's almost as expensive as resistive electric heat. For
me to fork out the money for a propane heater makes it a deal breaker.


Electric is way less than propane here. My brother saves money using
electric rather than oil furnace.

As far as saving money, I will chop wood out of the backyard.

Greg


There is one village in one town in our county that has "village
electric". Every house in that village is all electric because it is
so much cheaper than any other source of fuel.

On the borders of the village, the houses right across the street use
natural gas because using all electric from the Big Behemoth Gas and
Electric company would be too expensive.

The Real Estate ads for houses in the village all proudly proclaim
"Village Electric!" in their description so people will know which
side of the street the houses are on.
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Thanks to everyone for responding. I won't make a decision until I get
an HVAC person out here and see what he says.

-C-


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Ed Pawlowski wrote in
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On Wed, 02 Nov 2011 13:03:39 -0700, mike wrote:



They refused to tell me the
concentrations of various impurities normally found in natural gas.


I imagine they could do that years ago. Today, just ask for an MSDS
sheet. They have them and will send it to you.

Google is your friend


SECTION II: COMPONENTS AND HAZARDS
COMPONENT FORMULA CAS NO. VOL% (TYP.) TLV (PPM) DOT#
Methane CH4 74-82-8 93.5 N/A UN1971
Ethane C2H6 74-84-0 3.8 N/A UN1035
Propane C3H8 74-98-6 1.0 1,000 UN1978
i-Butane C4H10 75-28-5 0.1 N/A UN1969
n-Butane C4H10 106-97-8 0.1 800 UN1011
i-Pentane C5H12 78-78-4 0.1 350 UN1265
n-Pentane C5H12 109-66-0 0.1 600 UN1265
n-Hexane C6H14 110-54-3 0.1 50 UN1208
Carbon Dioxide CO2 124-38-9 0.3 10,000 [OSHA] UN1013
Nitrogen N2 7727-37-9 1.2 N/A UN1066
t-Butyl Mercaptan C4H10S 75-66-1 30 ppm N/A UN2347
Methyl Ethyl Sulfide C2H6S 624-89-5 3 ppm 40,250 UN1993
Hydrogen Sulfide H2S 7783-06-4 5 ppm 10 UN1053


Natural gas is not the same as propane.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com


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gregz wrote:
Tony Miklos wrote:
On 11/1/2011 10:27 AM, Country wrote:
I'm seriously considering replacing my pellet stove that I use to heat
the downstairs of my house with a ventless propane stove.


Be sure to crunch some numbers first, around here with the cost of
propane so high, it's almost as expensive as resistive electric heat. For
me to fork out the money for a propane heater makes it a deal breaker.


Electric is way less than propane here. My brother saves money using
electric rather than oil furnace.

As far as saving money, I will chop wood out of the backyard.

Greg


That reminds me, I have to check why there are a few huge chunks of coal
down in my backyard. I'm thinking they put those there for some reason.
Maybe I got a vein somewhere!! There is some small surface pieces near my
side chimney clean out. Why there I have no idea. I did have a bunch of
small coal pieces in my basement ceiling. Trapped in the aluminum ceiling
near the former coal Shute from the early 50's.

Greg
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On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 09:00:29 -0500, Jim Yanik
wrote:

Ed Pawlowski wrote in
:

On Wed, 02 Nov 2011 13:03:39 -0700, mike wrote:



They refused to tell me the
concentrations of various impurities normally found in natural gas.


I imagine they could do that years ago. Today, just ask for an MSDS
sheet. They have them and will send it to you.

Google is your friend


SECTION II: COMPONENTS AND HAZARDS
COMPONENT FORMULA CAS NO. VOL% (TYP.) TLV (PPM) DOT#
Methane CH4 74-82-8 93.5 N/A UN1971
Ethane C2H6 74-84-0 3.8 N/A UN1035
Propane C3H8 74-98-6 1.0 1,000 UN1978
i-Butane C4H10 75-28-5 0.1 N/A UN1969
n-Butane C4H10 106-97-8 0.1 800 UN1011
i-Pentane C5H12 78-78-4 0.1 350 UN1265
n-Pentane C5H12 109-66-0 0.1 600 UN1265
n-Hexane C6H14 110-54-3 0.1 50 UN1208
Carbon Dioxide CO2 124-38-9 0.3 10,000 [OSHA] UN1013
Nitrogen N2 7727-37-9 1.2 N/A UN1066
t-Butyl Mercaptan C4H10S 75-66-1 30 ppm N/A UN2347
Methyl Ethyl Sulfide C2H6S 624-89-5 3 ppm 40,250 UN1993
Hydrogen Sulfide H2S 7783-06-4 5 ppm 10 UN1053


Natural gas is not the same as propane.



No ****, that is why I posted the MSDS for natural gas.

https://www.nwnatural.com/Business/S...NaturalGasMSDS

Natural Gas Material Safety Data Sheet


This is propane

http://www.amerigas.com/pdfs/safe_eng.pdf

INGREDIENT NAME /CAS NUMBER PERCENTAGE OSHA PEL ACGIH TLV
Propane / 74-98-6 .…………………………………........87.5 -100 Simple asphyxiant
Ethane / 74-84-0 .…………………………………………. 0 - 7.0 1, Simple asphyxiant
Propylene / 115-07-1 ……………………………………... 0 - 5.0 Simple asphyxiant
Butanes / 106-97-8 …….…………………………………. 0 - 2.5 Simple asphyxiant
Ethyl Mercaptan / 75-08-1……………………………….. 0 - 50 ppm 0.5 ppm 0.5 ppm
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Ed Pawlowski wrote in
:

On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 09:00:29 -0500, Jim Yanik
wrote:

Ed Pawlowski wrote in
m:

On Wed, 02 Nov 2011 13:03:39 -0700, mike wrote:



They refused to tell me the
concentrations of various impurities normally found in natural gas.

I imagine they could do that years ago. Today, just ask for an MSDS
sheet. They have them and will send it to you.

Google is your friend


SECTION II: COMPONENTS AND HAZARDS
COMPONENT FORMULA CAS NO. VOL% (TYP.) TLV (PPM) DOT#
Methane CH4 74-82-8 93.5 N/A UN1971
Ethane C2H6 74-84-0 3.8 N/A UN1035
Propane C3H8 74-98-6 1.0 1,000 UN1978
i-Butane C4H10 75-28-5 0.1 N/A UN1969
n-Butane C4H10 106-97-8 0.1 800 UN1011
i-Pentane C5H12 78-78-4 0.1 350 UN1265
n-Pentane C5H12 109-66-0 0.1 600 UN1265
n-Hexane C6H14 110-54-3 0.1 50 UN1208
Carbon Dioxide CO2 124-38-9 0.3 10,000 [OSHA] UN1013
Nitrogen N2 7727-37-9 1.2 N/A UN1066
t-Butyl Mercaptan C4H10S 75-66-1 30 ppm N/A UN2347
Methyl Ethyl Sulfide C2H6S 624-89-5 3 ppm 40,250 UN1993
Hydrogen Sulfide H2S 7783-06-4 5 ppm 10 UN1053


Natural gas is not the same as propane.



No ****, that is why I posted the MSDS for natural gas.

https://www.nwnatural.com/Business/S...NaturalGasMSDS

Natural Gas Material Safety Data Sheet


This is propane

http://www.amerigas.com/pdfs/safe_eng.pdf

INGREDIENT NAME /CAS NUMBER PERCENTAGE OSHA PEL ACGIH TLV
Propane / 74-98-6 .…………………………………........87.5 -100 Simple asphyxiant
Ethane / 74-84-0 .…………………………………………. 0 - 7.0 1, Simple asphyxiant
Propylene / 115-07-1 ……………………………………... 0 - 5.0 Simple asphyxiant
Butanes / 106-97-8 …….…………………………………. 0 - 2.5 Simple asphyxiant
Ethyl Mercaptan / 75-08-1……………………………….. 0 - 50 ppm 0.5 ppm 0.5 ppm


the thread TITLE is ".....propane stoves",so why post about natural gas?

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com
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On 11/4/2011 8:15 AM, Jim Yanik wrote:
Ed wrote in
:

On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 09:00:29 -0500, Jim
wrote:

Ed wrote in
:

On Wed, 02 Nov 2011 13:03:39 -0700, wrote:



They refused to tell me the
concentrations of various impurities normally found in natural gas.

I imagine they could do that years ago. Today, just ask for an MSDS
sheet. They have them and will send it to you.

Google is your friend


SECTION II: COMPONENTS AND HAZARDS
COMPONENT FORMULA CAS NO. VOL% (TYP.) TLV (PPM) DOT#
Methane CH4 74-82-8 93.5 N/A UN1971
Ethane C2H6 74-84-0 3.8 N/A UN1035
Propane C3H8 74-98-6 1.0 1,000 UN1978
i-Butane C4H10 75-28-5 0.1 N/A UN1969
n-Butane C4H10 106-97-8 0.1 800 UN1011
i-Pentane C5H12 78-78-40.1 350 UN1265
n-Pentane C5H12 109-66-0 0.1 600 UN1265
n-Hexane C6H14 110-54-3 0.1 50 UN1208
Carbon Dioxide CO2 124-38-9 0.3 10,000 [OSHA] UN1013
Nitrogen N2 7727-37-9 1.2 N/A UN1066
t-Butyl Mercaptan C4H10S 75-66-1 30 ppm N/A UN2347
Methyl Ethyl Sulfide C2H6S 624-89-5 3 ppm 40,250 UN1993
Hydrogen Sulfide H2S 7783-06-4 5 ppm 10 UN1053


Natural gas is not the same as propane.



No ****, that is why I posted the MSDS for natural gas.

https://www.nwnatural.com/Business/S...NaturalGasMSDS

Natural Gas Material Safety Data Sheet


This is propane

http://www.amerigas.com/pdfs/safe_eng.pdf

INGREDIENT NAME /CAS NUMBER PERCENTAGE OSHA PEL ACGIH TLV
Propane / 74-98-6 .…………………………………........87.5 -100 Simple asphyxiant
Ethane / 74-84-0 .…………………………………………. 0 - 7.0 1, Simple asphyxiant
Propylene / 115-07-1 ……………………………………... 0 - 5.0 Simple asphyxiant
Butanes / 106-97-8 …….…………………………………. 0 - 2.5 Simple asphyxiant
Ethyl Mercaptan / 75-08-1……………………………….. 0 - 50 ppm 0.5 ppm 0.5 ppm


the thread TITLE is ".....propane stoves",so why post about natural gas?


He replied to "They refused to tell me the
concentrations of various impurities normally found in natural gas."

It is still quoted above.

--
bud--

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bud-- wrote:
On 11/4/2011 8:15 AM, Jim Yanik wrote:
Ed wrote in
:

On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 09:00:29 -0500, Jim
wrote:

Ed wrote in
:

On Wed, 02 Nov 2011 13:03:39 -0700, wrote:



They refused to tell me the
concentrations of various impurities normally found in natural gas.

I imagine they could do that years ago. Today, just ask for an MSDS
sheet. They have them and will send it to you.

Google is your friend


SECTION II: COMPONENTS AND HAZARDS
COMPONENT FORMULA CAS NO. VOL% (TYP.) TLV (PPM) DOT#
Methane CH4 74-82-8 93.5 N/A UN1971
Ethane C2H6 74-84-0 3.8 N/A UN1035
Propane C3H8 74-98-6 1.0 1,000 UN1978
i-Butane C4H10 75-28-5 0.1 N/A UN1969
n-Butane C4H10 106-97-8 0.1 800 UN1011
i-Pentane C5H12 78-78-40.1 350 UN1265
n-Pentane C5H12 109-66-0 0.1 600 UN1265
n-Hexane C6H14 110-54-3 0.1 50 UN1208
Carbon Dioxide CO2 124-38-9 0.3 10,000 [OSHA] UN1013
Nitrogen N2 7727-37-9 1.2 N/A UN1066
t-Butyl Mercaptan C4H10S 75-66-1 30 ppm N/A UN2347
Methyl Ethyl Sulfide C2H6S 624-89-5 3 ppm 40,250 UN1993
Hydrogen Sulfide H2S 7783-06-4 5 ppm 10 UN1053


Natural gas is not the same as propane.


No ****, that is why I posted the MSDS for natural gas.

https://www.nwnatural.com/Business/S...NaturalGasMSDS

Natural Gas Material Safety Data Sheet


This is propane

http://www.amerigas.com/pdfs/safe_eng.pdf

INGREDIENT NAME /CAS NUMBER PERCENTAGE OSHA PEL ACGIH TLV
Propane / 74-98-6 .…………………………………........87.5 -100 Simple asphyxiant
Ethane / 74-84-0 .…………………………………………. 0 - 7.0 1, Simple asphyxiant
Propylene / 115-07-1 ……………………………………... 0 - 5.0 Simple asphyxiant
Butanes / 106-97-8 …….…………………………………. 0 - 2.5 Simple asphyxiant
Ethyl Mercaptan / 75-08-1……………………………….. 0 - 50 ppm 0.5 ppm 0.5 ppm


the thread TITLE is ".....propane stoves",so why post about natural gas?


He replied to "They refused to tell me the
concentrations of various impurities normally found in natural gas."

It is still quoted above.

I mis-spoke when I said that.
I asked the gas company the impurities in the water coming out of
my furnace as a result of burning THIER natural gas.
Failing that, I asked a second question.
What's the concentration of various impurities in the EXACT natural
gas supplied to MY home by MY gas company.

Average numbers for someone else's gas are interesting, but I wondered
if the gas coming into MY house had issues I should be worried about
when converted to heat and water.

The interesting part of all this was not the numbers, but the fact that
they wouldn't tell me the numbers.


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On 11/4/2011 2:19 PM, mike wrote:

Average numbers for someone else's gas are interesting, but I wondered
if the gas coming into MY house had issues I should be worried about
when converted to heat and water.

The interesting part of all this was not the numbers, but the fact that
they wouldn't tell me the numbers.


They can't tell you the precise content because the actual content
varies hourly.
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On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 09:15:38 -0500, Jim Yanik
wrote:




On Wed, 02 Nov 2011 13:03:39 -0700, mike wrote:



They refused to tell me the
concentrations of various impurities normally found in natural gas.




the thread TITLE is ".....propane stoves",so why post about natural gas?


See the comment by the OP above. It answers his question. The gas
company would/could not. I did.
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On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 11:19:31 -0700, mike wrote:



I mis-spoke when I said that.
I asked the gas company the impurities in the water coming out of
my furnace as a result of burning THIER natural gas.
Failing that, I asked a second question.
What's the concentration of various impurities in the EXACT natural
gas supplied to MY home by MY gas company.

Average numbers for someone else's gas are interesting, but I wondered
if the gas coming into MY house had issues I should be worried about
when converted to heat and water.



No one can answer that exactly. The source of the gas can change day
to day, thus there will be some variations. It can be from one field
or a blend from many.



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