[Jay Hanig[_4_]]

I live in a coastal community on a North Carolina barrier island in a
house I inherited from my father. I've noticed a film on the silverware
I've run through the dishwasher that is difficult to remove. Just
rubbing it with a damp towel won't do it but using Bartenders Friend
cleans it up nicely. Still, I shouldn't have to clean most of the
silverware that's been through the dishwasher.

I've tried running CLR followed by vinegar through it. I have tried
using Jet Dry along with the Cascade Powder I generally use.

The dishwasher is a Maytag MDB9100AWQ of indeterminate age. The house
was built in 1983 but the dishwasher has probably been replaced at least
once. It still runs very quietly and aside from the film problem, I
have no complaints with it.

I'm told our water here is very hard. I don't have a problem with rust
stains and anything you soap up rinses off very quickly. So what should
I do? Am I at the point I need a new dishwasher?



Jay

[Joe]

On Oct 29, 3:53*pm, Jay Hanig wrote:
I live in a coastal community on a North Carolina barrier island in a
house I inherited from my father. *I've noticed a film on the silverware
I've run through the dishwasher that is difficult to remove. *Just
rubbing it with a damp towel won't do it but using Bartenders Friend
cleans it up nicely. *Still, I shouldn't have to clean most of the
silverware that's been through the dishwasher.

I've tried running CLR followed by vinegar through it. *I have tried
using Jet Dry along with the Cascade Powder I generally use.

The dishwasher is a Maytag MDB9100AWQ of indeterminate age. *The house
was built in 1983 but the dishwasher has probably been replaced at least
once. *It still runs very quietly and aside from the film problem, I
have no complaints with it.

I'm told our water here is very hard. *I don't have a problem with rust
stains and anything you soap up rinses off very quickly. *So what should
I do? *Am I at the point I need a new dishwasher?

Jay

Have your water analyzed (a freebie in some areas) and consider
getting a water softener. Hard water is more damaging to faucets and
fixtures than you realize, especially the much more complicated types
now in the stores. Softeners are some work, but ask neighbors who have
them about the benefits and that may help you decide.

Joe

[Bill]

On 10/29/2011 4:53 PM, Jay Hanig wrote:
I live in a coastal community on a North Carolina barrier island in a
house I inherited from my father. I've noticed a film on the silverware
I've run through the dishwasher that is difficult to remove. Just
rubbing it with a damp towel won't do it but using Bartenders Friend
cleans it up nicely. Still, I shouldn't have to clean most of the
silverware that's been through the dishwasher.

I've tried running CLR followed by vinegar through it. I have tried
using Jet Dry along with the Cascade Powder I generally use.

The dishwasher is a Maytag MDB9100AWQ of indeterminate age. The house
was built in 1983 but the dishwasher has probably been replaced at least
once. It still runs very quietly and aside from the film problem, I have
no complaints with it.

I'm told our water here is very hard. I don't have a problem with rust
stains and anything you soap up rinses off very quickly. So what should
I do? Am I at the point I need a new dishwasher?



Jay

This may be due to phosphate-free detergents. Laws passed in 2010
limiting the amount of phosphates in household dishwasher detergents.
Major manufacturers have reformulated their dishwasher detergents for
the entire United States.

What are phosphates?

They are chemical additives in detergents that act as a cleaning agent
helping to remove stains, break down grease and prevent spotting. During
a washing, phosphates suspend food particles so they do not stick to
dishes. Plus, they soften water allowing suds to form for cleaning.

Phosphates have been limited in detergents because they are difficult to
remove in waste water at treatment plants. This water is then released
into streams, lakes, rivers, and drinking water reservoirs where they
can cause environmental harm. In freshwater, phosphates boost algae
growth, which consume all the oxygen, ultimately killing the fish and
plants.

How does this affect my wash performance?

This Eco-friendly change in detergents may cause white film on your
dishes, glassware, plastic items, utensils, even the dishwasher tub.


How do I reduce the white film on my dishes?

Using dishwasher detergent tablets and pacs have been proven better than
powder, liquid or gel detergents to reduce filming on your dishes. By
using these tablets and pacs, over time this will start to reduce or
eliminate white film. Also, by using a rinse aid you can minimize repeat
build-up of white film.


The above info was stolen from Whirlpool's website:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/3lvlswn

[Home Guy]

Jay Hanig wrote:

I've tried running CLR followed by vinegar through it. I have
tried using Jet Dry along with the Cascade Powder I generally use.

I've heard that some people run a cup of Tang drink crystals through a
dishwashing cycle on an empty dish washer to clean it.

But your problem doesn't sound like it can be solved by cleaning the
inside of the dishwasher. The problem is what's in your water.

[Robert Neville]

Joe wrote:

Have your water analyzed (a freebie in some areas) and consider
getting a water softener. Hard water is more damaging to faucets and
fixtures than you realize, especially the much more complicated types
now in the stores. Softeners are some work, but ask neighbors who have
them about the benefits and that may help you decide.

A softener would be good, but you should know that the detergent manufacturers
under pressure from certain state environmental agencies have removed phosphates
from dishwasher detergents nationwide.

If you pick up a box of true TriSodium Phosphate (TSP) powder (red box) - not
substitute TSP and mix about one part TSP with 3 parts detergent, you may find
you lose the film. You can also use Sodium Tripolyphosphate. Both are called
binders. They keep any minierals in the water from attaching to the dishes.

[Larry Weil]

In article ,
Jay Hanig wrote:

I live in a coastal community on a North Carolina barrier island in a
house I inherited from my father. I've noticed a film on the silverware
I've run through the dishwasher that is difficult to remove. Just
rubbing it with a damp towel won't do it but using Bartenders Friend
cleans it up nicely. Still, I shouldn't have to clean most of the
silverware that's been through the dishwasher.

I've tried running CLR followed by vinegar through it. I have tried
using Jet Dry along with the Cascade Powder I generally use.

The dishwasher is a Maytag MDB9100AWQ of indeterminate age. The house
was built in 1983 but the dishwasher has probably been replaced at least
once. It still runs very quietly and aside from the film problem, I
have no complaints with it.

I'm told our water here is very hard. I don't have a problem with rust
stains and anything you soap up rinses off very quickly. So what should
I do? Am I at the point I need a new dishwasher?

A new dishwasher won¹t do any good. A recent article in Consumer¹s
Report blames the new ³phosphate free² dishwasher detergents for leaving
a film when used with hard water. So, what you need is a water softener.

--
Larry Weil
Lake Wobegone, NH

[Evan[_3_]]

On Oct 29, 4:53*pm, Jay Hanig wrote:
I live in a coastal community on a North Carolina barrier island in a
house I inherited from my father. *I've noticed a film on the silverware
I've run through the dishwasher that is difficult to remove. *Just
rubbing it with a damp towel won't do it but using Bartenders Friend
cleans it up nicely. *Still, I shouldn't have to clean most of the
silverware that's been through the dishwasher.

I've tried running CLR followed by vinegar through it. *I have tried
using Jet Dry along with the Cascade Powder I generally use.

The dishwasher is a Maytag MDB9100AWQ of indeterminate age. *The house
was built in 1983 but the dishwasher has probably been replaced at least
once. *It still runs very quietly and aside from the film problem, I
have no complaints with it.

I'm told our water here is very hard. *I don't have a problem with rust
stains and anything you soap up rinses off very quickly. *So what should
I do? *Am I at the point I need a new dishwasher?

Jay

@Jay:

Sounds like you need a water softener...

That "film" building up on your silverware is whatever mineral that is
causing
the hardness of your water...

~~ Evan

[Frank[_13_]]

On 10/29/2011 4:53 PM, Jay Hanig wrote:
I live in a coastal community on a North Carolina barrier island in a
house I inherited from my father. I've noticed a film on the silverware
I've run through the dishwasher that is difficult to remove. Just
rubbing it with a damp towel won't do it but using Bartenders Friend
cleans it up nicely. Still, I shouldn't have to clean most of the
silverware that's been through the dishwasher.

I've tried running CLR followed by vinegar through it. I have tried
using Jet Dry along with the Cascade Powder I generally use.

The dishwasher is a Maytag MDB9100AWQ of indeterminate age. The house
was built in 1983 but the dishwasher has probably been replaced at least
once. It still runs very quietly and aside from the film problem, I have
no complaints with it.

I'm told our water here is very hard. I don't have a problem with rust
stains and anything you soap up rinses off very quickly. So what should
I do? Am I at the point I need a new dishwasher?



Jay

I though water in an area like that would be soft.
Whatever, have it tested.
Like others, I suspect detergent may be at fault.

[badgolferman]

Jay Hanig wrote:

I live in a coastal community on a North Carolina barrier island in a
house I inherited from my father. I've noticed a film on the
silverware I've run through the dishwasher that is difficult to
remove. Just rubbing it with a damp towel won't do it but using
Bartenders Friend cleans it up nicely. Still, I shouldn't have to
clean most of the silverware that's been through the dishwasher.

I've tried running CLR followed by vinegar through it. I have tried
using Jet Dry along with the Cascade Powder I generally use.

The dishwasher is a Maytag MDB9100AWQ of indeterminate age. The
house was built in 1983 but the dishwasher has probably been replaced
at least once. It still runs very quietly and aside from the film
problem, I have no complaints with it.

I'm told our water here is very hard. I don't have a problem with
rust stains and anything you soap up rinses off very quickly. So
what should I do? Am I at the point I need a new dishwasher?



Jay

My brand new Whirlpool was doing this too. I got on the phone with the
customer support and they blamed the phosphate-free detergents. His
solution was to use Jet-Dry and most importantly -- run the sink water
until it gets as hot as you can stand before starting the dishwasher.
That seems to have helped a lot.

[Tony Hwang]

Jay Hanig wrote:
I live in a coastal community on a North Carolina barrier island in a
house I inherited from my father. I've noticed a film on the silverware
I've run through the dishwasher that is difficult to remove. Just
rubbing it with a damp towel won't do it but using Bartenders Friend
cleans it up nicely. Still, I shouldn't have to clean most of the
silverware that's been through the dishwasher.

I've tried running CLR followed by vinegar through it. I have tried
using Jet Dry along with the Cascade Powder I generally use.

The dishwasher is a Maytag MDB9100AWQ of indeterminate age. The house
was built in 1983 but the dishwasher has probably been replaced at least
once. It still runs very quietly and aside from the film problem, I have
no complaints with it.

I'm told our water here is very hard. I don't have a problem with rust
stains and anything you soap up rinses off very quickly. So what should
I do? Am I at the point I need a new dishwasher?



Jay
Hi,
Water hardness and rust is separate isue. If you don't have a softner
better have one. Tried Calgon ?

[Tony Hwang]

badgolferman wrote:
Jay Hanig wrote:

I live in a coastal community on a North Carolina barrier island in a
house I inherited from my father. I've noticed a film on the
silverware I've run through the dishwasher that is difficult to
remove. Just rubbing it with a damp towel won't do it but using
Bartenders Friend cleans it up nicely. Still, I shouldn't have to
clean most of the silverware that's been through the dishwasher.

I've tried running CLR followed by vinegar through it. I have tried
using Jet Dry along with the Cascade Powder I generally use.

The dishwasher is a Maytag MDB9100AWQ of indeterminate age. The
house was built in 1983 but the dishwasher has probably been replaced
at least once. It still runs very quietly and aside from the film
problem, I have no complaints with it.

I'm told our water here is very hard. I don't have a problem with
rust stains and anything you soap up rinses off very quickly. So
what should I do? Am I at the point I need a new dishwasher?



Jay

My brand new Whirlpool was doing this too. I got on the phone with the
customer support and they blamed the phosphate-free detergents. His
solution was to use Jet-Dry and most importantly -- run the sink water
until it gets as hot as you can stand before starting the dishwasher.
That seems to have helped a lot.
Hmmm,
There is dish washer with built-in heater or steam generator. Sounds
silly doing that wasting water.

[HeyBub[_3_]]

Jay Hanig wrote:
I live in a coastal community on a North Carolina barrier island in a
house I inherited from my father. I've noticed a film on the
silverware I've run through the dishwasher that is difficult to
remove. Just rubbing it with a damp towel won't do it but using
Bartenders Friend cleans it up nicely. Still, I shouldn't have to
clean most of the silverware that's been through the dishwasher.

I've tried running CLR followed by vinegar through it. I have tried
using Jet Dry along with the Cascade Powder I generally use.

The dishwasher is a Maytag MDB9100AWQ of indeterminate age. The house
was built in 1983 but the dishwasher has probably been replaced at
least once. It still runs very quietly and aside from the film
problem, I have no complaints with it.

I'm told our water here is very hard. I don't have a problem with
rust stains and anything you soap up rinses off very quickly. So
what should I do? Am I at the point I need a new dishwasher?


If you want to blame something, blame the hippies in Washington state who
got all exercised over an algae bloom in a stream. They blamed this on
phosphates which the state legislature promptly banned in diswashing
detergents. A few more states followed suit and finally the detergent
manufacturers, who got tired of two different formulations, quit putting
phosphates in diswashing detergents altogether.

Fortunately, you can put the phosphates BACK.

Buy powdered detergent. Add somewhere between 10-20% TSP to the box*. Shake
well before using.

TSP is available at the BORG, about six bucks for a giant box. CAUTION:
There exists a "Phosphate Free" TSP (how, I don't know). Don't get that one.

If you are tempted to dismiss this idea, it only costs six bucks to try it
out. Six bucks if far cheaper than a new machine or a water softener.

---
* Here's how I do it:
1. Empty box of detergent in really big bowl.
2. Add 15% by weight or volume of TSP to the bowl.
3. Stir well.
4. Cut "X" in top of detergent box, and, with the aid of a funnel and a
scoop, return (most) of the detergent to the box.
5. Cover "X" with swatch of duct tape

[Jay Hanig[_4_]]

On 10/29/2011 6:28 PM, Frank wrote:
I though water in an area like that would be soft.


My understanding is that soft water would lead to sudsing that is very
difficult to rinse away. Assuming that's the case, then I have the
opposite situation. Suds rinse away very quickly here.

The water's too nasty for me to drink... has sulfur in it that is
undetectable in cooking but drinking is another story. I use Pur water
filtration which handles my drinking water effectively and just buy bags
of ice for my drinks. I live alone so it's not that big of a deal.

I know the town's water is safe to drink; I just don't care for the
beach water taste.


Whatever, have it tested.
Like others, I suspect detergent may be at fault.


I'm starting to think you're right. So many people here are saying the
same thing. Thanks for your reply.




Jay

[Paul Franklin[_2_]]

On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 16:53:26 -0400, Jay Hanig
wrote:

I live in a coastal community on a North Carolina barrier island in a
house I inherited from my father. I've noticed a film on the silverware
I've run through the dishwasher that is difficult to remove. Just
rubbing it with a damp towel won't do it but using Bartenders Friend
cleans it up nicely. Still, I shouldn't have to clean most of the
silverware that's been through the dishwasher.

I've tried running CLR followed by vinegar through it. I have tried
using Jet Dry along with the Cascade Powder I generally use.

The dishwasher is a Maytag MDB9100AWQ of indeterminate age. The house
was built in 1983 but the dishwasher has probably been replaced at least
once. It still runs very quietly and aside from the film problem, I
have no complaints with it.

I'm told our water here is very hard. I don't have a problem with rust
stains and anything you soap up rinses off very quickly. So what should
I do? Am I at the point I need a new dishwasher?



Jay


As others have said, probably from combo of hard water and
no-phosphate dw soap.

I've had good luck with combination of Lemishine (google it) and
switch from powder to the little combination detergent packs. I put
lemishine in prewash dispenser and the gel-pack thing in the main
wash.

The tip about running water in sink until hot is valid. Many
dishwashers with built in heaters (all of them?) only heat the water
on the main wash cycle. Running the water in the sink until hot
ensures the pre-rinse is done with hot water.

HTH,

Paul F.

[Higgs Boson[_2_]]

On Oct 29, 1:53*pm, Jay Hanig wrote:
I live in a coastal community on a North Carolina barrier island in a
house I inherited from my father. *I've noticed a film on the silverware
I've run through the dishwasher that is difficult to remove. *Just
rubbing it with a damp towel won't do it but using Bartenders Friend
cleans it up nicely. *Still, I shouldn't have to clean most of the
silverware that's been through the dishwasher.

I've tried running CLR followed by vinegar through it. *I have tried
using Jet Dry along with the Cascade Powder I generally use.

The dishwasher is a Maytag MDB9100AWQ of indeterminate age. *The house
was built in 1983 but the dishwasher has probably been replaced at least
once. *It still runs very quietly and aside from the film problem, I
have no complaints with it.

I'm told our water here is very hard. *I don't have a problem with rust
stains and anything you soap up rinses off very quickly. *So what should
I do? *Am I at the point I need a new dishwasher?

Jay

**You got a lot of advice about softening the water. Be aware that if
the pipes in the house are old, and coated with deposits from hard
water, "shocking" them with water softener could damage the pipes;
cause leaks, etc.

**Personally, I dealt with our dishwasher problem (not a hard/soft
water situation) as follows: When it died a few years ago after 13
years of valiant service, I decided not to spend the money for a
plumber to fix the water input, even if they could find the parts for
such an old d/w

**Also decided spending big bux for a new good quality dishwasher (I
don't buy junque) was waaaaay at the bottom of my house repair
priorities. So I bought a counter-top dish drainer. Now everybody
washes dishes by hand. True, it co-opts a lot of counter space. And
true, it uses much more water than a dishwasher would. But ATC, we're
OK with the decision. Now I just have to get around to finding a
handyman to remove the dishwasher and build in a couple of shelves or
drawers in the space.

HB

[Stormin Mormon]

You are probably suffering from EPA syndrome. Some liberal
socialist decided to order the detergent people to stop
using phosphates in the diswasher detergent. So, now, the
detergents don't work any more. Call, write, or shoot your
local EPA office. Uh, well, you could "shoot them an email"
if you aren't a revolutionary.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Jay Hanig" wrote in message
...
I live in a coastal community on a North Carolina barrier
island in a
house I inherited from my father. I've noticed a film on
the silverware
I've run through the dishwasher that is difficult to remove.
Just
rubbing it with a damp towel won't do it but using
Bartenders Friend
cleans it up nicely. Still, I shouldn't have to clean most
of the
silverware that's been through the dishwasher.

I've tried running CLR followed by vinegar through it. I
have tried
using Jet Dry along with the Cascade Powder I generally use.

The dishwasher is a Maytag MDB9100AWQ of indeterminate age.
The house
was built in 1983 but the dishwasher has probably been
replaced at least
once. It still runs very quietly and aside from the film
problem, I
have no complaints with it.

I'm told our water here is very hard. I don't have a
problem with rust
stains and anything you soap up rinses off very quickly. So
what should
I do? Am I at the point I need a new dishwasher?



Jay

[Jay Hanig[_4_]]

On 10/29/2011 7:34 PM, HeyBub wrote:

Fortunately, you can put the phosphates BACK.

Buy powdered detergent. Add somewhere between 10-20% TSP to the box*. Shake
well before using.

TSP is available at the BORG, about six bucks for a giant box. CAUTION:
There exists a "Phosphate Free" TSP (how, I don't know). Don't get that one.

If you are tempted to dismiss this idea, it only costs six bucks to try it
out. Six bucks if far cheaper than a new machine or a water softener.



I won't be dismissing this idea at all. In fact, I was wondering what
exactly to do with the TSP once I found some. Now I know thanks to you!

I'll be off to the Borg in the AM.




Jay

[Jay Hanig[_4_]]

On 10/29/2011 11:48 PM, Jay Hanig wrote:



Thanks to everyone who took the time to offer advice. I was on the
verge of spending some big bucks on a new dishwasher and now know I
would not have gotten any satisfaction out of doing so. So now I'll be
buying some TSP and adding it to my dishwasher detergent to see if that
won't get things back up to snuff.

I'll let you know how this ends no matter what. But thanks all!




Jay

[Ed Pawlowskio]

On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 16:53:26 -0400, Jay Hanig
wrote:

I live in a coastal community on a North Carolina barrier island in a
house I inherited from my father. I've noticed a film on the silverware


Are you talking about true silverware or silver plate? If so, it does
not belong in the dishwasher and should be done by hand.

If you are using the term sort of generically to describe flatware
made from stainless, look tot he water for a solution to the problem.
Hard water is probably the cause, not the machine.

[HeyBub[_3_]]

Stormin Mormon wrote:
You are probably suffering from EPA syndrome. Some liberal
socialist decided to order the detergent people to stop
using phosphates in the diswasher detergent. So, now, the
detergents don't work any more. Call, write, or shoot your
local EPA office. Uh, well, you could "shoot them an email"
if you aren't a revolutionary.

I don't think the EPA ordered the removal of phosphates. The removal started
with several states banning phosphates and the manufacturer's despaired of
making two different formulations. Proctor & Gamble and the other
manufacturers quit phosphates in ALL their products.

[Jay Hanig[_4_]]

On 10/30/2011 12:22 AM, Ed Pawlowskio wrote:
On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 16:53:26 -0400, Jay
wrote:

I live in a coastal community on a North Carolina barrier island in a
house I inherited from my father. I've noticed a film on the silverware


Are you talking about true silverware or silver plate? If so, it does
not belong in the dishwasher and should be done by hand.


The family silver has never seen the inside of a dishwasher, any more
than the guns I use to protect it.



If you are using the term sort of generically to describe flatware
made from stainless, look tot he water for a solution to the problem.
Hard water is probably the cause, not the machine.


Yep, the generic sense of the word. It's stainless flatware. The real
silver only comes out at Thanksgiving and Christmas, and even then it's
only if I'm feeling ambitious.



Jay

[Stormin Mormon]

I really hate it when my dishwasher leaves a film on my
guns. How many guns does it take to protect your dishwasher?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Jay Hanig" wrote in message
...



The family silver has never seen the inside of a dishwasher,
any more
than the guns I use to protect it.

[Home Guy]

Concise explanation can be found by watching this:

http://www.cascadeclean.com/en_US/video_filming.do

Or read the the following for more detailed info:

=========================================

HeyBub wrote:

I don't think the EPA ordered the removal of phosphates. The removal
started with several states banning phosphates and the manufacturer's
despaired of making two different formulations. Proctor & Gamble
and the other manufacturers quit phosphates in ALL their products.

http://www.cascadeclean.com/en_US/cascade-faq.do

Why did Cascade take phosphate out of the formula?

Cascade products complied with all Local, State, and Federal regulations
that required the removal of phosphate from automatic dishwashing
detergents by July 1, 2010.

What did phosphates do?

Prior to July 1, phosphates were an important part of most automatic
dishwashing detergent. They helped with dishwashing performance by
facilitating food removal, removing the calcium that binds these types
of foods together, and aided in grease removal. They also helped control
water hardness and bound/suspended soils within the wash water so they
did not redistribute onto plates.

Over the past two years, Cascade has invested heavily in R&D and
manufacturing to be able to deliver phosphate-free formulations across
all of our products, without compromising product performance.

Can I still use my old Cascade product?

Because phosphate laws vary by state, please contact your state
environmental agency for information on what to do with any
phosphate-containing Cascade product you may have. (List of agency
contact info available at www.epa.gov/epahome/state.htm).

What impact does phosphate have on the environment?

Phosphate supports the growth of plants, including algae. When too much
phosphate is present, excessive amounts of algae can develop. This may
lead to undesirable water quality impacts including reductions in
aquatic life, poor taste and odors in drinking water.

So, is my phosphate-free Cascade better for the environment?

Scientific studies demonstrate that a noticeable improvement in water
quality would be affected only through decreases across all
phosphorus-contributing sources, including fertilizer (residential and
agricultural), construction run-off, and poorly-treated municipal
sewage. Although phosphate from automatic dishwashing represents less
than 3% of the amount in the environment, Cascade is doing its part.

The Cascade brand has designed the lineup to be phosphate free, while
providing consumers the level of superb cleaning performance and value
they have come to expect. Cascade products deliver excellent cleaning
performance, and can reduce or often eliminate the need to pre-wash
dishes, which may result in water savings.

Filming

If you are experiencing filming or spotting from using phosphate free
powder formulas in hard water, please watch this video for more
information.

http://www.cascadeclean.com/en_US/video_filming.do

Has my Cascade changed? It used to work fine, but now I’m getting spots
and filming.

Due to the industry-wide reformulation of automatic dishwashing
detergents, there is a potential for some filming or spotting in harder
water with phosphate free powder formulas. P&G designed their powder
formulas versus relevant competition and know that we are giving equal
to better performance with Cascade Powder.

While some consumers may experience issues with these powders, the
majority of Cascade consumers are not experiencing issues with Cascade.
In fact, Cascade Action Pacs deliver excellent product performance, in a
convenient unit dose and have been consistently rated among the top
dishwashing products in independent product reviews.

What is the cloudy stuff on our glasses and dishes? Is it safe to
eat/drink out of the glasses and dishes?

The film that most often forms when detergent combines with water
hardness is mainly made up of magnesium, calcium, and aluminum -
elements commonly found in some of the foods that we eat. Nevertheless,
we always recommend that consumers wash any residue left on dishes
before using them again.

How can I prevent filming?

We recommend taking the following steps to prevent filming -

1. Ensure that you are filling both detergent cups full for
each load.
2. Use a rinse aid, such as Cascade Rinse Aid, which helps
to rinse away food particles and residues that can cause
spots on dishes.
3. Dishwasher water temperature should be at least 120 degrees F.
Run hot water at the kitchen sink before starting the load to
help reach this temperature.
4. To help prevent low water pressure, make sure that no other
water is being used in the house (showers, grass watering,
washing machine).
5. Make sure the dishwasher is loaded properly so that no items
block the sprayer arms and prevent adequate water from reaching
all of the dishes.

For consumers who nevertheless continue to experience filming issues, we
recommend they try Cascade Action Pacs or Complete Action Pacs, since
they contain a water-softening agent that helps to prevent mineral
re-deposit on dishes. Cascade Rinse Aid also helps to minimize spotting
and filming on dishes.

How can I remove film that is already present?

For non-metal items, we recommend a vinegar wash. Put two cups of white
vinegar in a bowl and place on bottom rack of the dishwasher. Run the
glasses/dishes through a cycle with no detergent. Re-wash with Cascade
to remove residual vinegar.

For metal items, we suggest cleaning by hand using a stainless steel
cleaner or silver cream.

Do you plan to take the product off of the market?

No. The majority of consumers are not experiencing issues with Cascade.
Feel free to contact our Consumer Relations team if you are unhappy with
your Cascade. They can help you find the best Cascade product to meet
your needs.

[[email protected]]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 10:33:33 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

I really hate it when my dishwasher leaves a film on my
guns.

Maybe you should put your cameras in there instead?

How many guns does it take to protect your dishwasher?

None. The "dishwasher" is just a euphemism for the beer 'fridge.

[Oren[_2_]]

On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 18:32:13 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson
wrote:

**You got a lot of advice about softening the water. Be aware that if
the pipes in the house are old, and coated with deposits from hard
water, "shocking" them with water softener could damage the pipes;
cause leaks, etc.

Got a link for that information. How exactly would soft water _shock_
the pipe, causing _leaks_? I'm interested...

[DD_BobK]

On Oct 29, 1:53*pm, Jay Hanig wrote:
I live in a coastal community on a North Carolina barrier island in a
house I inherited from my father. *I've noticed a film on the silverware
I've run through the dishwasher that is difficult to remove. *Just
rubbing it with a damp towel won't do it but using Bartenders Friend
cleans it up nicely. *Still, I shouldn't have to clean most of the
silverware that's been through the dishwasher.

I've tried running CLR followed by vinegar through it. *I have tried
using Jet Dry along with the Cascade Powder I generally use.

The dishwasher is a Maytag MDB9100AWQ of indeterminate age. *The house
was built in 1983 but the dishwasher has probably been replaced at least
once. *It still runs very quietly and aside from the film problem, I
have no complaints with it.

I'm told our water here is very hard. *I don't have a problem with rust
stains and anything you soap up rinses off very quickly. *So what should
I do? *Am I at the point I need a new dishwasher?

Jay

Having read all the replies and having experienced similar poor
dishwasher performance, the way I "solved" the film problem with my
dishwasher(s).

Before you do anything about your hard water, get a new dishwasher or
hassle with TSP....give this product a try.


http://www.lemishine.com/

http://www.amazon.com/Lemi-Shine-703.../dp/B0047528HM

I buy it at a local gorcery store for about $4 per 12oz.

I think it's basically citric acid. I put regular d/w powder in the
first dispenser & the Lemi-Shine "main wash" dispenser.

No more film on flatware or glassware.

cheers
Bob

[Oren[_2_]]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 12:32:38 -0500, "
wrote:


I really hate it when my dishwasher leaves a film on my
guns.

Maybe you should put your cameras in there instead?

Or only wash his stainless steel guns in the dishwasher.

[Oren[_2_]]

On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 16:53:26 -0400, Jay Hanig
wrote:


I'm told our water here is very hard

An easy test. Pour a cup (gently) of Muriatic Acid into the toilet
bowl. If will fizzle more with a real hard water. Soft water will
not. The fizzle is dissolving the minerals in the bowl water.

[bob haller]

On Oct 30, 2:37*pm, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 16:53:26 -0400, Jay Hanig
wrote:



I'm told our water here is very hard

An easy test. Pour a cup (gently) of Muriatic Acid into the toilet
bowl. *If will fizzle more with a real hard water. *Soft water will
not. The fizzle is dissolving the minerals in the bowl water.

USE TSP on your dishwasher to clean it. i ran a load empty and was
amazed at how clean it came out.

i recently ran out of TSP. the cascade complete i usually use did a
much better job than 6 months ago. perhaps they upgraded the
formula.....

[Oren[_2_]]

On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 17:19:23 -0600, Tony Hwang
wrote:

There is dish washer with built-in heater or steam generator. Sounds
silly doing that wasting water.

We have a stand-by dish washer. She can wash the dishes sometimes
before the water is to hot.

[Oren[_2_]]

On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 19:38:51 -0400, Jay Hanig
wrote:

The water's too nasty for me to drink... has sulfur in it that is
undetectable in cooking but drinking is another story

Artesian well water smells like sulphur, get past that an ya got it
licked.

[Oren[_2_]]

On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 23:48:26 -0400, Jay Hanig
wrote:

There exists a "Phosphate Free" TSP (how, I don't know). Don't get that one.

It makes the hippies feel better about themselves. Sheeesh

[Oren[_2_]]

On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 23:48:26 -0400, Jay Hanig
wrote:

On 10/29/2011 7:34 PM, HeyBub wrote:

Fortunately, you can put the phosphates BACK.

Buy powdered detergent. Add somewhere between 10-20% TSP to the box*. Shake
well before using.

TSP is available at the BORG, about six bucks for a giant box. CAUTION:
There exists a "Phosphate Free" TSP (how, I don't know). Don't get that one.

If you are tempted to dismiss this idea, it only costs six bucks to try it
out. Six bucks if far cheaper than a new machine or a water softener.



I won't be dismissing this idea at all. In fact, I was wondering what
exactly to do with the TSP once I found some. Now I know thanks to you!

I'll be off to the Borg in the AM.




Jay

Use in the clothes washer for softer clothes....

The red box at my BORG was $3.98 -- 1 LB box.

[[email protected]]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 11:06:17 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 12:32:38 -0500, "
wrote:


I really hate it when my dishwasher leaves a film on my
guns.

Maybe you should put your cameras in there instead?

Or only wash his stainless steel guns in the dishwasher.

You have SS film guns? What are they for, Hippie safaris?

OTOH, my guns, with the exception of the Buckmark are SS. I still don't think
I'd put them in the DW. ;-)

[Stormin Mormon]

I'm working up, from televisons to camera to handguns. I'll
get back to you.

Still, hate it when it leaves a rinse film on my camera.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...
On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 10:33:33 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

I really hate it when my dishwasher leaves a film on my
guns.

Maybe you should put your cameras in there instead?

How many guns does it take to protect your dishwasher?

None. The "dishwasher" is just a euphemism for the beer
'fridge.

[HeyBub[_3_]]

Jay Hanig wrote:
On 10/30/2011 12:22 AM, Ed Pawlowskio wrote:
On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 16:53:26 -0400, Jay
wrote:

I live in a coastal community on a North Carolina barrier island in
a house I inherited from my father. I've noticed a film on the
silverware


Are you talking about true silverware or silver plate? If so, it
does not belong in the dishwasher and should be done by hand.


The family silver has never seen the inside of a dishwasher, any more
than the guns I use to protect it.



If you are using the term sort of generically to describe flatware
made from stainless, look tot he water for a solution to the problem.
Hard water is probably the cause, not the machine.


Yep, the generic sense of the word. It's stainless flatware. The
real silver only comes out at Thanksgiving and Christmas, and even
then it's only if I'm feeling ambitious.


I don't think a dishwasher will hurt a gun - well, at least a pistol. I
regularly subject my smaller guns to an untrasonic cleaner.

[Oren[_2_]]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 16:23:37 -0500, "
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 11:06:17 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 12:32:38 -0500, "
wrote:


I really hate it when my dishwasher leaves a film on my
guns.

Maybe you should put your cameras in there instead?

Or only wash his stainless steel guns in the dishwasher.

You have SS film guns? What are they for, Hippie safaris?

OTOH, my guns, with the exception of the Buckmark are SS. I still don't think
I'd put them in the DW. ;-)

Sure. The DW is safe for SS with soft (any) water .. remove the grips
and have at it. One clean gun.

[Stormin Mormon]

One friend of mine thought of using a dish washer to clean
greasy auto parts. Makes sense, to me. Hot water, and some
kick ass detergent.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Oren" wrote in message
...

Or only wash his stainless steel guns in the dishwasher.

You have SS film guns? What are they for, Hippie safaris?

OTOH, my guns, with the exception of the Buckmark are SS.
I still don't think
I'd put them in the DW. ;-)

Sure. The DW is safe for SS with soft (any) water .. remove
the grips
and have at it. One clean gun.

[Tony Hwang]

Stormin Mormon wrote:
One friend of mine thought of using a dish washer to clean
greasy auto parts. Makes sense, to me. Hot water, and some
kick ass detergent.

Hi,
I use dish washer to clean our furnace EAC elements. Works well.

[Stormin Mormon]

When I (briefly) worked for Shears and Rowbunk, my trainer
used to use hot water, and Cascade auto dish washer powder.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Tony Hwang" wrote in message
news

Stormin Mormon wrote:
One friend of mine thought of using a dish washer to clean
greasy auto parts. Makes sense, to me. Hot water, and some
kick ass detergent.

Hi,
I use dish washer to clean our furnace EAC elements. Works
well.